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Berst Says it May be Time for Linux 141

Posted by Roblimo from the flamebait-hall-of-fame dept.
yelvington writes "'Throw Away Windows? When -- and Whether -- to Switch to Linux' is the headline of today's Berst Alert. He's come around to recommending Linux on high-end servers and departmental file/print servers; he's more cautious about desktops. His justification is more industry support, more technical support, and more applications. Cynical take on it: Jesse's back from vacation, and he's looking for a cheap ride from the slashdot effect to get things rolling again."
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Berst Says it May be Time for Linux More

Berst Says it May be Time for Linux

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  • Imagine trying to support linux over the phone....what fricking nightmare.

    Phone support is difficult under the best of circumstances, but, IMNSHO, linux phone support is *WAY* easier than Windows.

    For one thing, "type this:" is much easier to express clearly over the phone than "find an icon that looks like a computer and is labeled 'System', then click on the tab labeled 'Device Manager', then look for a picture of a..."

    But the real big win for Linux is that, if the network is up, a remote techincal support person can actually log in there and see for himself, directly what the problem is. Linux just dominates Windows when it comes to remote administration.

    If I were a large PC vendor and wanted to ship supported Linux desktops to newbies, I'd install an admin account on each machine which would allow tech support to log in and identify problems. This would allow tech support not only to fix problems, but also to do periodic maintainence, sanity checks, and upgrades according to a service contract selected by the customer. (Customers would, of course, be able to disable such an account at any time.)

    A small boot partition on the hard disk could be reserved to boot the system with a standard configuration which would guarentee that the system would retain enough functionality to dial into the tech support network regardless of the abuses the user applies to the operating system.

    Think of the ads: Having problems? Just type "fixme" at the lilo prompt and our expert technical support staff will be connected to your machine in minutes!

    I think this sort of thing will eventually become the norm, once people get used to the idea. Hackers will always take care of their own machines, but the masses will let someone else do the dirty work. I don't see this happening with Windows anytime soon, though.
  • Somewhere I saw a chronological collection of Jesse Berst quotes about Linux - it was pretty funny to see him twist in the wind as Linux gained in popularity and he had to change his tune. Anyone know where that list is?

  • Indeed, Corel owns an entire buttload of fonts.

  • You can get the same effect with NetBooted Macs. The administrator can set up applications, user privileges, etc., and lock everything down.

    And as an added bonus, the user experience doesn't absolutely suck, so the workstation gets out of the user's way and lets them get their work done. This cannot be stressed enough: "Not crashy" doesn't automatically mean "easy to use!"

  • I love this. A year ago it was suicide to bring Linux into your organization. A year later it is just fine, due primarily to the people who were willing to ignore last years advice.
  • Read one paranoid post about the support, for Linux by some PC vendors, is to help Gates win his DOJ case. If enough vendors declare support for Linux, Gates can say that there is indeed viable competition for windows.

    I could see Dell or Gateway doing such a thing, but IBM and others wouldn't. Of course, if those PC vendors drop support for Linux after the case is decided, then maybe he was right in his paranoia.

    Berst, I don't pay any attention to him. I turned him off when he did a review of Netscape and blasted it as unstable.(Federal Times) He didn't point out that it was an early beta he tested. he spent the rest of the article lauding IE.
  • I just installed RH 5.2 at work and Linux is alot easier to install than when i first did a slackware install in the dim and distant days of yore. However you still need to know what you want/need to intall and you have to understand what the disk partition is all about. Otherwise it was like a windoze install without the reboots.

    (BeOS of course takes less than 15 minutes from putting the CD-ROM in the drive to surfing the net)

    However I must disagree about ease of use after install, linux still has a long way to go in the desktop/GUI area before its as easy to use as BeOS. BeOS does need more apps, but there are already enough there for me to do 90% of what i want to do in BeOS. And yes, I think X does look crappy, and after using BeOS's GUI I find it fairly slow & clunky also.
  • Move along folks, nothing to see here. Just more of the same from our good friends at ZDNet.

    Berst sets the tone of the "alert" with the first few lines, a pile of sickening drivel about how he is our friend for warning us about Linux. His silly metaphor equating Linux with trailblazing and the frontiersmen is absolutely disgusting as well. Give us a break.

    The article has no technical merit; think manager speak here. This kind of crap is written for your boss, not for an engineer or a programmer. As other /.ers have mentioned, I do wish he would clarify just what a "workhorse" departmental server is. Does he mean internal web sites, file serving, and printing? Hello Apache and Samba. I wish Jesse would be a little clearer here.

    He is dead-on about Linux on the Desktop. That isn't happening yet, mostly due to the kinks that need to be worked out with the Gnome/KDE, and the general infancy of the useful applications for Linux (StarOffice being one notable exception.) I do expect this situation to change dramatically in the next 9 months, as KDE 2 is readied, and Gnome continues to mature into the marvelous desktop environment it is destined to be.

    All in all, it may actually be a useful article for us. Manager types that actually read his brand of trash, thinking it the Holy Word, will start considering Linux now. His cautious tone (ever so careful not to step on MS' feet) may end up easing our bosses into agreement with us for a change. Only time will tell. Fortunately, that means Jesse won't.
  • Sounds ridiculous, but the readability of the desktop is one of its more important attributes. Maybe you enjoy getting headaches from eyestrain after hours of programming, not I.

    Another issue is that it was recently regulated that all "telecom devices" must abide by the handicapped access laws, where it isn't difficult or expensive to implement. I'd hate to see Linux computers being rejected by PHB's on the basis of being a poor choice for readability for those with sight problems.

    Jim


  • Every other "Let's jump on the Linux bandwagon" article that has been posted here lately....
  • It isn't a bad article for ZDnet. Little technical details, but thats ZDnet. If they did have any technical details you can be assured they'd be wrong. I don't know what a 'general workhorse server' is and it would've been useful to see what services he feels a 'general workhorse server' requires.

    Chances are he was just talking through his hat, that for balance reasons he needed a counterpoint. Not being particularily competent he invented 'general workhorse servers' and figured nobody would task him on a definition.

  • Well then, I guess the party can start now. Jesse's here.

    In defense of ZD I do like the way Linux has been treated for years on the ZDTV lineup (and on the Screen Savers in particular -- I knew I was watching a good show when I saw the huge-sized stuffed tux sitting in the corner).

    ----

  • fonts (Score:1)

    by rent ( 66355 )
    Fonts on the linux desktop look so yuck!
    Thats why I choose Windows.
  • Blah Blah Blah Linux Blah Blah Blah NT Blah Blah Blah Paradigm Blah Blah Blah Viable Blah Blah Blah Support.


    That was, in all seriousness, the most uninformative article on Linux that I've ever read. Basically all he said was, "I'm not saying switch to Linux, but if you do, it's okay". Like anyone out there really waits for Jesse Berst's say-so.

  • Eric Sharkey wrote:

    Hackers will always take care of their own machines, but the masses will let someone else do the dirty work.

    This illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how real users think. Users don't want "someone else to do the dirty work" of administering a computer -- they want computers that don't require any "dirty work" to administer!

    The only reason they might say they want someone else to do it is because they've been convinced by DOS, Windows and Unix that it's not possible to have a computer without "dirty work."

    (MacOS isn't perfect in this respect either. It's a lot closer to the ideal than any other system, though.)

  • That's true, Berst is writing to management. So, let's consider what he's been telling our bosses:

    * Linux cannot overtake Windows (comments about world domination)
    * Nobody gets fired for choosing Microsoft (paraphrase)
    * People _get_ fired for choosing Linux (left as a possibility)
    * Only a gearhead can use Linux to get real work done (comments about desktop, note implications about gearheads)

    _If_ people accept these statements as fact, and don't check back to see if his views change, they may make what they consider to be informed decisions about servers, desktops, etc., without knowing the big picture (which they could have gotten from their local "gearhead").

    Having written articles (and done radio shows) before, I recognize that it's difficult to make sure that every fact lines up before you say something, especially in this industry. But this guy has been wrong about Linux/OSS almost as often as Jack Van Impe has misdated Armageddon.

    And this failure to accurately review products or predict the future has certainly caused thousands of small-to-medium-sized businesses to make the wrong decisions, and spend thousands of dollars on OS licenses for OS's that don't work and support that isn't supportive, when a "gearhead" could have charged them a week's worth of consulting time, got it all running with Linux/FreeBSD, and left them alone to make money.
  • Often I do not agree with him, but he fills an specific niche in an industry - he writes editorials about it. He licks his finger and pokes it in the wind and to see which way it blows (the wind, not his finger).

    Like any editorial you are going to find points for arguement. Never expect him to really 'come around' because that's not his job. His job is to be critical and in doing so provoke thought. If what he is was going to say was standard fare, nobody would give a rat's--er--read.

    Every once in a while there will be quality insight, such as his recent article on instant messaging, AOL vs. MS, was pretty interesting, especially about future possible applications, something I never considered before.

    Like him you may not, but I bet you still give him a read.
  • Maybe he figured that the best way to scare people away from Linux would be for him to say something good about it.

  • There's an old stereotype that the mainstream media is liberal. I've come to the conclusion that the mainstream media doesn't operate on the liberal-conservative axis; rather, it's pro-controversy. That's what brings in the readers; that's what brings in the advertising dollars. The pseudo-technical media has hit on the same solution.

    If MS went bankrupt tomorrow, JB would immediately set about wringing his hands over whether you should use Linux or the Mac. It doesn't matter to him, so long as he can make half of his readers mad in each column and then give them a sop in the next issue just to keep them coming back.

  • > Articles like this reinforce my belief that you need absolutely no skills whatsoever other than knowing how to do hunt-and-peck typing to be an information technology journalist.

    That's not just IT journalism. I saw a documentary about TWA 800 last night, and it showed a clip of the news conference that was held when the black boxes were found. The boxes were displayed on a table, and a journalist asked: "Can you tell whether it was a bomb by looking at those boxes?"

    Sheeesh. No wonder crappy software sells better than the good.

  • Well, my understanding is that 'General Workhorse Servers' is what Jesse Berst sees every day through the window in the locked door when walking to his office. I guess he would not mind if those things behind the door ran Linux if anything.;-)
  • Linux according to Jesse Berst "I think it's great if you are willing to promote Linux to your boss. As long as you are aware of the risk you are taking. The risk of getting fired." (Feb. 16). From lwn [lwn.net]:
    • "I think it's great if you are willing to promote Linux to your boss. As long as you are aware of the risk you are taking. The risk of getting fired." (Feb. 16 [zdnet.com]).
    • "Is a Linux takeover likely? Give me a break. Of course not." (June 23 [zdnet.com]).
    • "I personally think Windows NT will be the mainstream operating system within a few years." [...] "My belief: Linux will never go mainstream" (Sep. 9 [zdnet.com]).
    • "I've always said that Linux could become a serious challenger to Microsoft's Windows NT." (Sep. 28 [zdnet.com]).
  • At least one version is here, at http://www.lwn.net/1999/features/199 8timeline [lwn.net].
  • As recently as a year and a half ago I had nearly expiring 2 year subscriptions to PC Magizine, Computer Shopper (for the ads--I did a lot of purchasing), and *choke* PC Computing (only one year).

    Once in a while Dvorak would write something witty and worthwhile, but by and large these magazines were written by English majors that wanted jobs. The hardware reviews had nothing to do with stability and usefullness...the only factors were ease of use for complete morons and questionable benchmarks based on speed (having very little to do with reality).

    And lets not even talk about the overpriced, expensive toilet paper known as PC Computing. I think they should re-name it "PC-Computing for Dummies."

    That's why I let them all lapse.

    I only get Computer Reseller News (because it's free), and Linux Journal (which has ethics about quality) these days.
  • And anyone who thought the IPO would bring in added dough and support, I urge you to check out the following link: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=beos&d=t [yahoo.com]. Can you say "In the toilet?" I knew you could. Looks like the IPO craze doesn't hold much water for most tech stocks. Then again, anyone with half a brain told you all this months ago...

    BeOS isn't prepared for jack, folks. Stop living in the dream world....
  • Microsoft will still prevail, and continue to lead in the home market, unless you give home consumers a reason to switch. I mean, what exactly can a linux box give them that a Windows box can't, other than reliablity? Is there some magical killer app that every teenager on the block must download that only comes in Linux? Does the mom write email 5 times faster in Linux than on Windows? Also remember these people are just basically technological ignorants, so it's not like they are going to care how configurable it is or anything technical like that. So, why switch for the average Joe?
  • I concure with my fellow advocate. If you like the true type fonts, use the true type server. You can swap the icons too if they annoy you. Personally, I think that my X desktop is pretty :-)
  • You are correct, Linux is not (yet?) ready for non-technical users. But why recommend Windows on that basis? The Mac is easier to use, set up, and maintain. The up front cost is a bit higher, but it is much "friendlier", and in my estimation the long-term cost is much less.
  • Oh yeah, another thing. Windows, if it didn't come with your factory bought PC costs about $208 (Win 98, M$'s suggested retail). Lets see, 20 mins in the campus library + a few floppies / some removable media... Linux... FREE POWERFUL GOOD.

  • It's a lovely set of quotes, and also taken completely out of context. I'd not heard of Jessie Berst before I saw those, and I got quite a different impression of what he was saying when I went and actually read the articles.

    Berst attracts all this noteriety on Slashdot not because he's anti-Linux (he never has been, as far as I can tell), but because he's concerned about how businesses get their IT work done, and couldn't give a damn which OS is running. For him, he's perfectly happy with an MS product if it's doing a good job. And that's an unforgivable sin here.

    cjs

  • I don't think Roblimo understands how the topics
    are supposed to work. Just because Jesse is a
    computer "news" writer doesn't mean his article
    about Linux goes under the news category......

    If it's about Linux, it goes under the Linux
    category. That way, those who are sick of reading
    about it can exclude it.

    -WW

    --
    Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
    When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring

  • I couldn't agree more, which is why I said in a few years... heck even as small as a year, who knows... Especially with the pace that Linux is going and the corporate funding that it is recieving.

    But remember, you set them up. They probably could not have set themselves up. (note this is not a flame -- my parents don't even try to understand what I do...)

    The two things linux is lacking right now is install and a good unified desktop. both are being addressed, and IMHO coming along quite nicely...

    Mark

  • You wouldn't be comparing fvwm95 to BeOS's gui. That would be kind of unfair. Just asking, since you say you are using RH 5.2.
  • Somewhere I saw a chronological collection of Jesse Berst quotes about Linux - it was pretty funny to see him twist in the wind as Linux gained in popularity and he had to change his tune. Anyone know where that list is?

    Try this http://www.lwn.net/1999/features/1998 timeline [lwn.net]. It is funny to see Jesse contradict himself even just weeks apart. Of course, Jesse isn't a "technical" writer, it's just his job to say something that is "popular" at the time.

    -Brent
  • You are a fool. GUI is not for everything CLI has and ALWAYS will be an important part of computing.
  • Re:
    • True type support
      Try xfstt [freshmeat.net] or other font servers listed at Freshmeat [freshmeat.net].

    • Less bulky wigets
      Tcl/Tk and Motif tend to be a bit on the mondo side. GTK and Qt have much cleaner, more PC|Mac -like wigets. This is an applications development issue for the most part.

    • Games.
      Just wait. Meantime, there's always Quake....
  • Linux isn't ready for high end servers.

    Who said it was? Jesse Berst? You're supposed to ignore him, anyhow. People love to rant and rave about things the "Linux community" is supposedly doing. 9 times out of 10, though, the "Linux community" is doing no such thing.

    Linus has said he is interested in improving Linux's scalablity; he certainly hasn't said that Linux can be used on massive machines now. He also has said repeatedly that his core interest is the desktop.

    Linux will be eventually scale up pretty far, but, yes, for the time being, Solaris is the way to go for relatively high-end stuff.

    Of course, the Sun machines I work with run what would be more accrately described as GNU/Solaris... :-)

    --
    Interested in XFMail? New XFMail home page [slappy.org]

  • Maybe he just misspoke, but in this column, Ol' Jesse claimed that Linux makes a good file or print server but NT was a "general workhorse". Um, Jesse, "news.com"-flash.. it's the other way around. As long as you keep NT from working too hard (print server), it'll perform like a dream ( a bad dream, yes, but it's easy to maintain, I guess). For a real general-purpose workhorse, it's Linux or any other free UNIX that you need to be installing. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but that was one of *the* dumbest things I've ever seen written, even by Berst.
  • This is an example of theoretising to death, at the expense of good and sound PRACTICAL options. We have no OS today that is so clean and logical in its design and so well abstracted in its interface that there is no dirty work, so any discussion of Linux on the desktops is about comparing it to what Joe-Shmoe is using today: Windows.

    I would kill to be in a situation where everyone who calls me when there computers "break" would have systems that I could log into remotely...
  • Red Hat, Debian and I think all the major distros ship with an improved version of xfs ... it uses very little memory compared to xfstt, but is a little harder to set up, mainly due to poor docs.

    I love the way both can be used remotely to serve fonts. Very cool.

    It is, however, way too much of a pain in the ass to set up.

  • Right. So let me give you some quotes from those exact same articles, and then you see what you think of Berst.

    • 'Linux is not just for geeks anymore. As many as five million computers now run the operating system.... [Linux has] a low, low cost. And many technical merits.' (Feb. 16th [zdnet.com])
    • The June 23rd [zdnet.com] article is entitled How Linux Could Kill Windows NT. What more need be said?
    • 'Linux...will have a powerful influence...' (Sept. 9th [zdnet.com])

    cjs

  • You got that right. As far as I know, there are no good manually hinted truetype fonts freely available for distribution.

    There are really only a few fonts we need:
    • Arial/Helvitica
    • Times/Times New Roman
    • Courier New
    Manually hinted fonts typically seperate each font type into seperate files. Arial, Arial Bold, Arial Italic, Arial Bold Italic are all really seperate fonts under Windows and MacOS.

    This gives a much higher quality font that what you see if you try to apply Bold and Italic to a font.

    Creating fonts with those little font creation programs doesn't cut it, going in and manually hinting the font file will always give you better results. There are very few people who can manually hint a font and make it look good, it is truly an art.

    Microsoft has made a few fonts available for free download, but you still have to agree to their license.

    --

  • The flaw with this argument is not technical. It's that the typical business user does need Windows applications, if for no other reason than that they've been using them since the early '90s and you won't find any other platform that runs them. I'm not just talking about the ability to open Word documents. I'm talking about the service order entry system your company has been using for the last five years built around Microsoft Access. The spreadsheets lurking in every third or forth director's hard drive that contain Visual Basic for Applications programs. The weirdass vertical market application that looks like a star of "It Escaped From The Mainframe" that all your field service personnel depend on.

    If you were building a business from the ground up you would be better off with non-Windows solutions, although you should be prepared to deal with the Word, Excel and occasionally PowerPoint documents that businesses you work with will send you.

    Personally, if I were doing that business from the ground up, I wouldn't give everyone Linux, because the desktop application support still isn't quite there. (Yes, I spent a lot of time playing with StarOffice, and it ultimately sold me on Gobe Productive for BeOS. StarOffice is pretty and powerful, but my God, it's like a hog in molasses!) Servers, sure. Give the people who know what they're doing with them Linux boxes. Give the people who want to run office applications iMacs.

  • Just exclude Roblimo in your preferences. That's what I'm gonna do. He's gettin' plonked with Katz.



    ---
    Have a Sloppy night!
  • No, the problem with Linux zealots is that they
    like to dictate what is important in choosing an
    OS... perhaps readability *IS* important?

    Stability... Yes, I could get that in Linux once
    I get it running and configured properly (a chore). I can also get it much easier in BeOS and
    to some extent, Win2K.

    Cost Effectiveness... an oft-used requirement
    mentioned by any purveyor of a free operating
    system. Granted, Microsoft has come up with some
    f*cking stupid licensing schemes (WHAT? I have to
    license *both* processors for SQL Server?!?!).
    OTOH, I've never had much trouble getting *legal*
    copies of NT for free, or at least cheap. BeOS
    costs about the same as a copy of RedHat. At $70-$100, it is a reasonable price for the features it packs.

    Performance... I won't speak for windows here, but
    BeOS is notorious for it's speed, multi-threading,
    and support for many processors. It needs work on
    the network speed, but I guess I can wait for the
    multi-user support upgrade before complaining
    about that, eh?

    You left out "Maintainability" ... Linux is not
    easy to maintain, unless you've been using it or
    Linux for many years.

    It is not user-friendly, and will not be accepted
    by any number of non-geeks until it is re-written
    from the ground up to be so.

    Not to say Linux doesn't have it's good and great
    points... I'm just sick of hearing one side all the time.

    -WW
    --
    Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
    When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
  • Well, you are making a case that he is an active danger. But whether there's anything reasonable to do about it is another matter. There are lots of folk promoting dangerous lunacies for reasons that seem to me at best dubious. But they have the right to do so, as long as they pay their bills. And I have the right to discontinue my subscriptions. (Which I already have.)

    A while back I ran into an article about Linux in the LA Times that was so obnoxious that I decided to never contribute to their well being again. I was going to write in and inform them of why, but they hide their e-mail addresses (and it wasn't worth my time to help them). Feedback isn't desired. They were inflamatory on purpose, and they knew it. So.

    Well, I remember them. I also remember Mr. Berst. I don't listen to their advice any more. Yes, I know that they are out there. So is Elmer Gantry (by whatever name he's using these days). So are power-seeking politicians (fill in your own favorite name). So are... . Only a very few of these can be addressed at any one time. Mr. Berst has to rank very low on the list. Personally I merely remember to never recommend anyone that I know him to be closely associated with (one MUST question their judgement).
  • Yes, but the law concerns what Gates was Doing, not what is going on right now. If I'm charged with going 55 in a 45 mile an hour zone, then they change the sign to read 55 the next day, that doesn't let me off the hook. Gates had a monopoly, he abused the monopoly he had, breaking the law. Gates has to pay the legal recourse (I say throw the company in jail (you can't throw a company in jail, but the equvilent would be to remove its buisness license) for a year!).
  • God, that's sure the truth. I've been home sick watching CNN for a couple of these major events (TWA was one) and it is unbeleivable the inane questions they ask.

    Investigator: "We've prepared a statement - we have just begun the investigation, we will give you hourly breifings on what we know, when we know it, theis is ongoing, will thake weeks or months to piece together what happened here, so if you'll all just bear with us. At this time we have only recovered small sections of the plane that were floating on the surface, no indications at this point that there was an explosion, but it is too early to rule anything out at this point."

    Cluelss Reporter: "Can you comment on wild speculation we've heard that an Iraqi gunboat fired a surface to air missle that struck the plane in the left wing?"

    Investigator: "No, as I've said, we have only very preliminary information at this time - the plane appears to have crashed into the water, we are looking for survivors as well as any pieces of wreckage that may give us some clue as to if this is some mechanical malfunction or some type of elposive or sabotage, but it is too early to tell and I'm not going to speculate..."

    Clueless Reporter #2: "Can you say anything about the possibility that this was some kind of terrorist attack timed to coincide with the Olympics in Atlanta?"

    Investigator: "No, as I've said..."


    I don't know how these guys are able to put up with these stupid questions for hours at a time without screaming "God, can't you hear? We don't know yet!"
  • No. I decided that it was improper to support a potent force that was wielded with reckless disregard.

    However, I did read him for over a year before deciding this. Please consider what you are supporting when you read him.
  • My fonts are clear enough. Perhaps you should finally learn how to make configuration changes through a gui interface.

    Not all fonts even need anti-aliasing. Although it is true that the most common TT fonts sorely need it.

  • Did anyone else notice that nearly every paragraph included a caveat from Burst:

    ``I'm not counseling you to move away from Windows...''

    This was nothing more than a couple of web pages full of weasel words.

    When Linux finally does take over a larger market share, ol' Jesse will be able to say:

    ``See, I told you so.''

    If it doesn't, ol' Jesse will still be able to say:

    ``See, I told you so.''

    I wish his boss would wake up and tell Jesse:

    ``Hey! Your column is boring! Do you really have a point of view? Or are you really as wishy-washy as your columns read?''

    And for a laugh, take a look at the "talkbacks". A sampling of the replies that were negative toward the rise of Linux seemed to all come from people who were either MCSEs or working toward that certification. Translation: "I don't want to have to learn something new!" (you should say this aloud with a whiny voice)

  • Except readability really isn't a problem for anyone not too afraid to reconfigure their apps. For this class of user, Windows is not necessarily any better in terms of eye strain or readability.

    This is just a desperate attempt to find some sort of trivial fault.
  • Nice 2 C Gates wont need his shoes polished 2day.

    Just what the world wants. Another jackass shoveling entrails into the maw of Mikkkrosoft.
  • a font server to host ALL fonts for a whole company, etc. what a genius idea! that would be truly wonderful. but, not applicable since i am still addicted to windows...

    bummer. i hate reality checks.....

  • General Workhorse Server, now known as GWS, thats what NT is??? What exactly do you mean by GWS? Does that mean its ok if it crashes? You don't mind if its a dog? You're not proud of it, but it gets alot of lame jobs done?
    That could be anything.
    Jesse, I think its time you tried installing linux with your own hands and your own tinker. Then come back and write about it.
  • It seems Microsoft think so too - they added a few cool features to Win2K CLI.
  • if you get your world news from geraldo listen to what berst says. the guys a klon...been one for years.

  • I couldn't agree more. But the average price for a Mac (at least in this area) is 1500-2000$US. The average price for an entry level PC is 600-1000$US. at almost twice the price, that is enough to dissuade most consumers. Especially the clueless.

    Mark

  • ``sms sucks most of the time''

    Are you talking about MS SMS or Shared Medical Systems software?

    Oh, wait. Never mind. Both software packages suck like a tornado.

  • i didn't click on the link, so no increased hit count from me.
  • Yeah, it's true, but not for much longer. I suggest you try out one of the fine Truetype servers out there; I think you'll be pleasently surprised.

    ----

  • i support some users at a pretty big hospital and i can agree, linux isn't read for the average Joe, but the average joe can't use windows either. Most of the time, we don't even try to support these users over the phone. I'd appreciate a remote administration (sms sucks most of the time) and a legit company isn't gonna use bo2k (maybe, someday) or pcAnywhere from some type of helpdesk....

    but one can wish... i walk too much at my job.


  • Which desktop tho? In a corporate enviroment where users do not have root access it would be great - your users can not fuck with the fundemental config and if you really need to you can login remotely.

    I can see your point for home users - I'd not want to try and provide support in that enviroment at the moment, but thats a different market segment.

    just thoughts

    Tom
  • Articles like this reinforce my belief that you need absolutely no skills whatsoever other than knowing how to do hunt-and-peck typing to be an information technology journalist.

    No real substance and basically no earth-shattering conclusions or words of wisdom that the previous 50 writers haven't mentioned. While Metcalfe is a weenie, at least he trys to justify his job by writing flamebait material.

    Thanks for the newsflash, Jesse. Next week's articles entitled: "The Pope is Catholic" and "OJ Killed Two People". Details at 11:00.

  • Jesse Berst is the biggest load on the Internet. I'm not sure why Slashdot would even link his crap. Sheesh...I could do what this guy does.

    "Read why you cannot live without WIN2000"
    "Read why Linux is for real"
    "Everything you need to survive Y2K"
    "Blah Blah Blah"...


    This guy doesn't know anything and never has any new or pertinent information. He offers very little in the way of facts...just hype hype hype. Sheesh. I honostly hope nobody takes anything this guy writes seriously. Don't waste your click on this moron.

    "COME TO MY SITE TO LEARN WHY YOU MUST SWITCH TO A MAC TODAY"

    "I"VE GOT THE TEN BEST KEPT SECRETS ABOUT SOFTWARE YOU MUST HAVE"

    "I'M SUCH A LOAD OF NOTHINGNESS THAT I HAVE TO WRITE ARTICLES THAT HAVE ZERO CONTENT"

    sheesh...I really don't like this guy.
  • who said Linux will get us all fired. He's only posting a story right now because it's fashionable with LinuxWorld and the RedHat IPO. Give it a few days, he'll change his tune, or tell us that Win2K is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Why do we even bother with "journalists" like him? Well, I guess we all need comic relief in our day (I sure as hell do).

    Most of this article was news a while ago, but not now. He's only posting it to make his money and cover his ass. All he cares about is getting hits on his aticles to make himself and ZDNet ad money.

  • I work for a small telecommunications/internet company in south eastern Michigan. Most of our low end servers (DNS, Web, Mail, ftp) are all Linux. From my experience at work and at home, this is the perfect place for a linux server.

    The place where linux is not ready for use right now is in fact the desktop. The few users that we do have that use linux are quite versed in the system and know their way around. On the contrary the average windows user is quite clueless. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of knowledgable users, but not the ones I deal with.

    Maybe in a few years it might be a viable solution. Recently the desktop has taken a drastic improvement with KDE and Gnome. And the installs are getting easier every day. (RedHat is a breeze today compared to Slackware back in '95 when I started with Linux).

    Linux is rapidly becoming a contender in the low to mid end of the server market, and is being embraced by corporations. This is a definate improvement from where it was even a year ago. So we should be rejoycing at the good press, not criticizing it for being too brief... Considering that all of the IT department and most of the upper level management reading the Berst alert here where I work, I'm sure that others in management are reading this. It is far from the FUD that is par for the course in management literature about Linux, and for that I congratulate Berst for his observations!

    Mark

    Network Administrator

  • yeah, right. this guy is the anti-fact as a rule. maybe his MSBSrhetoricyst talknician check is late.
  • Spoken like someone who sounds as if they've never tried to navigate someone through a gui over the phone.

    Just look at the gui configuration information that an ISP might put on the web and then compare that to the lowlevel version for Linux. Notice how much smaller the Linux version is. Also notice how the Linux version could be fairly easily done for the end user remotely even across serial lines.

    Add a fat pipe into the picture, and a phone isn't even necessary for the end user even for gui base help under unix.

  • Berst (Score:2)

    by drwiii ( 434 )
    Just an observation, but I think Jesse's hairstyle changes more frequently than his opinion does.
  • I used to subscribe to the "Berst Alerts" newsletter a little over a year ago. It ended with me posting a very nasty message to his messageboard and removing myself from the list in disgust.

    Here's what I can't stand about Jesse:
    - He has a lot of hate for MS, and he's constantly bashing them. It's not like the MS bashing that goes on in geek circles (everything that MS does wrong, everyone's got a slick comment and an open source answer for it). Instead, he just RIPS into them and attacks as if it's a horrendous mud-slinging bout between two incompetent politicians in a local election (well, MS has never said anything about Jesse, which means that they're at least above him). He usually keeps rambling on about it too, forseeing their demise and using opinions and unfounded facts to back up his own ill predictions. He really treats MS as if they were Antichrist Inc. and after a while it gets so grating and ridiculous that it's a subtle form of torture to keep reading his vile spewing columns.

    - He's a hypocrite too. He'll bash MS but then write something (grudgingly) about something they're doing good right now. He'll talk about Linux as the MS-killer (that and the DOJ case) but then say "You can get fired for using Linux". Basically he maintains no consistency in his opinions. He's like a little kid who hears something and shouts it out to the schoolyard. Two weeks later he'll hear something totally contradictory and shout that out too (as if it were his own research-based scholarly opinion that he just constructed five minutes ago...)

    - He's a moron. Another journalist in the Wide World of Computer Journalists (Who Got Their Jobs Cause They Know How To Get Into MS-Word And Don't Have To Use Manual Typewriters). He's another typical journalist who writes articles that are heavily swayed by personal opinion, who writes what's better to read rather than what's truthful or useful, who will stoop to any level to get the (wrong) scoop or the extra hits on the site, who basically doesn't know what the hell he's talking about half the time.

    This guy should be doing the poultry reports for the Iowa Gazette. He's like an anti-Dvorak (and I'll admit that Dvorak is only more intelligent and happens to write things that I agree with more). ZD-Net does have some crap, but they could get rid of a lot of it by dumping this guy.


  • It's only partially true that "Fonts on the linux desktop look so yuck!" Some of the fonts that come with Linux distributions do yes, but I always install a TTF font server that is run automaticly with X. The truth is that there isn't a lot of "free" good looking fonts yet.

    my /etc/inittab has

    # Run the TrueType font server in runlevel 5
    xf:5:respawn:/usr/local/sbin/xfstt

    You can read about the xfstt fontserver here! [linuxgazette.com]

    --
    Why pay for drugs when you can get Linux for free ?
  • Getting xfstt up and running cut down on much ranting on my part about how pug-ugly X's font displays are. It's still not as nice as BeOS's display--no anti-aliased fonts, and some applications are a touch on the clueless side when it comes to using TrueType (Netscape being a notable example). Even so, it made a world of difference. If you're using Red Hat 6.0, I understand it comes with xfstt installed, and even a logical arrangement to share fonts between applications that logically should be sharing them, like X and Ghostscript. Somebody else could correct me if I'm wrong on that. RH51 didn't, and getting it running was a bit wonky, although not too bad if you pay close attention to the instructions. (I thought I had, but we won't go there.) When I switched to Debian 2.1, I discovered that when I installed the xfstt package it automatically configured itself and came up the next time I started things. The most work I had to do was to look in /usr/doc/xfstt to find what directory I needed to stuff the font files in. Somebody tell me why the Debian distribution is supposed to be the difficult-to-use one again?
  • And for a laugh, take a look at the "talkbacks". A sampling of the replies that were negative toward the rise of Linux seemed to all come from people who were either MCSEs or working toward that certification. Translation: "I don't want to have to learn something new!" (you should say this aloud with a whiny voice)

    Hey!

    I'll have you know not all MCSE's are Redmond's bootlicking toadies. I have one (Criminey, I've been immersed in the gunk for so long and the bloody tests were such a joke that I would be a fool to pass up the chance...) and I find that it is a potent weapon against PHBs. Imagine, if you will, a minion of the Dark Lord himself suggesting products other than those from that Sludgepot in Washington.

    Yes, people will without fail pick Micros~1 crud 7 or 8 times out of 10, but I at least get a word in edgewise. Make 'em think about the other side of the fence.

    I managed to save a customer > $10k when they wanted to set up a network management system. I talked them out of NT and SMS and into Linux and VNC. Monitors their network just fine and they could spend the extra money on decent workstations. A couple of the employees were so grateful that they bought me dinner and drinks when all was said and done...

    MMMMMmmmmmmm. Guiness.

  • AfterStep and i guess the config/admin tools are gnome. The desktop environment is lame IMO & the admin tools are not much better. Now I haven't used the latest and greatest KDE/whatever desktop so maybe linux can do better than what Im seeing now, but unless they are orders of magnitude better linux still has a very long way to go in the desktop world.

    On the tech side Id like to see better SMP support (when I used SMP under linux (2.0.* kernels I think) I was NOT impressed. Also I'd like to see threads used alot more (the BeOS GUI benefits greatly from its multi threaded nature) A journalling fs would be nice as well as atributes and mime encoding.
  • when they try to reposition - like trying to say "I was correct before, but I've changed my mind" - he writes We're a far cry from a year ago when I was telling you it was politically and technically dangerous to even consider Linux - the only thing dangerous was following his advice a year ago, whereas early adopters have had time to get up on the learning curve and become comfortable; unless one's idea of a 'computer professional' is putting in a CD and calling for support if 'autorun' doesn't work.

    Chuck
  • No, he probably isn't. Anyone who wants to use their computers for written stuff needs good fonts on the screen. There's a lot of things that make linux hard to use (printing for example) and they should be changed.
    I've heard mandrake distributes ttf fonts on their latest distro and the corel distro should too.
  • I'll have you know not all MCSE's are Redmond's bootlicking toadies.

    Yeah, but there's a huge population of grunts with enough rote memorization skills to pass "Windows NT Server in the Enterprise" on the third try. Somewhere, in the back of their brains, they know that the value of their paper MS Certificates are about to get flushed down the toliet, and the first stage of loss is Denial. But don't worry, a few years from now, these folks will be your freindly neighborhood inexpensive Linux fuckups.

    (Same thing happened with CNE certs when NT came in a few years ago.)
    --
  • Agreed - Remember all those Mac users out there too. Let me know when desktop publishing (no. not TEX, ack!) really exists on linux.

    Linux needs more depth if it's going to become more than a "hacker's" OS.
  • What a thoroughly annoying article. Click for more. He could have come across as hip and web-savvy if he had linked directly from words in his article, but separating the links made the article sound mundane and dorky. Click for more.
  • This guy, every other month he changes his opinions about whatever may be "newsworthy"(high hit count) just in an effort to stir people up. Don't give in. All he is is a burst of hot air.
  • Anchordesk is not, nor is it trying to be, Slashdot. He is not writing "News for Nerds." Many of the people who read Anchordesk are management, and they're trying to at least be a little aware of what's happening on the tech front. At the same time, they don't much care about what libraries they need to make TrueType fonts show up on Gnome.

    Obviously, none of you are going to learn much new about Linux from a Berst column. That shouldn't surprise you, because you aren't the audience he's writing to. And that isn't a bad thing.
  • But what most people don't understand is that *nix is easier on the desktop for most companies, given that the software they need is available (if they need Word, then obviously *nix might not be the best choice). If you drop Windows98 on everyone's desktop, soon they are going to install some nifty utility, and then a screensaver, and then realize that the Screensaver needs DirectFoo5.2 and soon their computer won't boot. So you have to send a tech out to fix it...

    The nice thing about *nix is that you build the desktop system, you set up the user with a nice menu on the root window or on a button bar, and as long as that user doesn't know the root password, the user can't mess up the computer. That's why our PC group here has over 8x as many people as our unix group ... not becuase there are more PC's (the number is roughly the same, plus the servers are mostly UNIX), but because they are so much harder to maintain.

    For the typical home user, or for small businiesses that just want a word processor or spreadsheet, Windows or MacOS is still probably their best choice -- the learning curve for Linux is probably not worth it (yet). But for a company that has to hire IT people and don't need windows-only programs, *nix can lower costs and problems a lot.

  • He seems like just another cheesey, smiley corporate lackey. That article is just filled with office-anxiety: like that crappy 'cover-your-arse factor' phrase. He has his own column on ZDNet, you'd think he would be more self-secure. BTW, isn't it people like him that are the reason people started developing Linux in the first place?
  • Exactly, the Helpdesk I work at supports ~650 users all running Win95 or NT(a few DOS stragglers) and 85% of them are clueless. If the icon is not on the desktop the software is not installed, if something takes longer than 3 seconds over the network something is broken, etc.

    If the users here are anything like the rest in th corporate world(and I'm guessing they are), Linux can be on their desktop as soon as it does:

    A) Icons on the desktop/menu for everything
    B) The "smart" users should be able to make their own shortcuts and change their display properties.
    C) When they login Important directories on file servers should be mounted(mapped) automagically w/o a password prompt.
    D) They should have a filemanager that lets them fuck up their files in their mounted directories easily.
    E) They need to be able to browse directories on servers(Network Neighborhood)

    From what I see on the Linux desktop most of this is already doable easily, in fact now that I think about it, with proper app support(Outlook mainly) I think I could slip a Linux desktop infront of some of our regular users and have them be able to use it fairly easily.

    And I walk too much at my job too, the only thing I try over the phone is "did you reboot?"

  • Give me GOOD true type support, less bulky widgets on most programs, and game support and I'd be very happy.

    I made the switch to 100% linux six months ago, and I'm not really looking back. (seven months ago my primary machine was windows and I did a hell of a lot via Exceed to my secondary machine which was Linux based)

    I'm starting to see game support... q3 seems to be the best linux game I've seen. But not enough for my liking.
  • Dammit, Linux isn't ready for high end servers. DO NOT PUSH IT IN THERE YET! It's not fast enough, doesn't scale enough, isn't multi-threaded enough, doesn't have enough support, and isn't robust (yes) enough. YET.

    It's great! I'm using linux/gnome as I type this! But dammit, it is *not* a replacement for Solaris especially, or other UNIXen just yet. It isn't ready.

    It isn't the right time to move Linux into corporate server production. Give it the time it needs to really become mature!

    Damn linux nutcases...
  • OK, I understand that Berst (who doesn't know jack about Linux) is writing to management people (who don't know jack about linux). My only question is: why is this on /.?
  • My fonts actually look pretty damned good. I guess I have a TrueType Server. I think Linux looks so very much better than Windows. Infact, most Unix flavors can look pretty great, the secret is, that you decide how your computer is going to look. If you like WindowMaker, then you use it, and if you like Enlightenment, you use that, and there are a myriad of other choices.

    And then there are Font Servers, accelerated X servers, desktop environments, GTK themes, etc, etc, etc.

    And then there is the CLI...
  • c) you never have to upgrade their systems, only the central server. unless of course you do something stupid like buy the a 14" b&w NCD... :P as long as they have a 17" color one

    I wish you were the IT person here cause I have to work with a 14' B&W NCD Terminal in my office. Using one seems like a great way to check out how well web pages are designed though. Some pages show up with black text on a black background on my terminal. =(
  • er ... Try this instead

    win-E win-F - find files etc ...

    hope this helps ...

    Cobratek
  • er ... Try this instead

    win-E - windows explorer
    win-F - find files etc ...

    hope this helps ...

    Cobratek
  • Joe User isn't going to switch to Linux on his own accord; he won't have to. He doesn't really choose Windows now, and when his machine is preloaded with Linux, it won't matter a whole lot to him, as long as the software he wants to run is there.

    It's only a matter of time before Linux does to Windows what the PC did to the Mac. The Mac, in the late 80s/early 90s was a quite obviously superior piece of hardware to your run-of-the-mill PC. But it cost a lot more. The mass market went for the cheaper alternative, because the case for the Mac was not sufficiently compelling to make up for the higher cost.

    The same thing is about to happen to Windows.

    As soon as hardware vendors think they can get away with it (read: as soon as Linux will allow people to deal with Word documents and play some games), they will bundle Linux instead of Windows, to try to get that extra edge on the competition. It will save them $40-80 per unit, a not-inconsiderable sum in the razor-thin-margin PC market.

    Think about the following trends:

    • KDE moving to version 2.0 and including an office suite
    • The beginnings of mainstream gaming support
    • Corel's end-user Linux distribution
    • Very-low-end clone vendors beginning to ship Linux as their default OS
    and you can see that Windows' days as the ubiquitous desktop OS are indeed numbered.

    The preloads are coming; it's just a matter of time.

    --
    Interested in XFMail? New XFMail home page [slappy.org]

  • One minor point: Linux *is* supported over the phone by companies like Red Hat.

    But, to be fair, Linux really is *not* ready for the average Joe. I've worked technical support. When someone calls you up and asks what the foot pedal is for and you realize that they are talking about the *mouse* then you will know what I'm talking about.

    But for power users, which these days really means just about anyone who truly comprehends the most basic computer concepts (directory trees, the difference between "memory" and "hard drive space", how to edit "config.sys" or "autoexec.bat" on a Windoze machine), Linux *is* ready to be a desktop operating system. Those who don't realize this are in denial that Windows may actually be going away... :)

  • "Well, I guess we all need comic relief in our day (I sure as hell do)."

    me too, me too! (never though I'd say that)

    reading Berst Alert with a Navigator that's set to not underline links is fun. it looks like a badly written speech note. blah blah blah blah Click for more. blah blah blah blah blah Click for more. blah blah blah blah blah Click for more.

    Just replace "Click for more" with "applaud" og "laughter" or something, and your speech is ready!

  • That's why you browse with Lynx!
  • Yes, fine, this article was stupid. Note to The Andover Southside Krew: In the future, mebbe include a quick roundup of articles that only exist to get clickie points, in order to avoid giving them tons of hits from we who are bored enough to read anything posted here.

    In any case, I really wanna send a large nuclear device at every person who posts here saying "Yes, but, it ISN'T ready for the desktop!" Just shut the hell up, already. If you do nothing but regurgitate the same crap you read, you're no better than Berst. Go waste your time posting snide comments on the zdnet 'forum.' It's much more fun than me-tooing the Brain Dead party line.

    --
    Blue, loving life at -1.
  • LWN [lwn.net]'s 1998 Linux timeline [lwn.net] had a nice little sidebar about the consistency of Mr. Berst's opinions about Linux.

    Linux according to Jesse Berst
    "I think it's great if you are willing to promote Linux to your boss. As long as you are aware of the risk you are taking. The risk of getting fired." (Feb. 16 [zdnet.com]).
    "Is a Linux takeover likely? Give me a break. Of course not." (June 23 [zdnet.com]).
    "I personally think Windows NT will be the mainstream operating system within a few years." [...] "My belief: Linux will never go mainstream" (Sep. 9 [zdnet.com]).
    "I've always said that Linux could become a serious challenger to Microsoft's Windows NT." Sep. 28 [zdnet.com]).

  • I want to try the TrueType servers out there... but I can't quite figure out how. There's not a "Font HOWTO" hiding somewhere out there anywhere?

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