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Television Media

Details About New Trek Series? 313

Posted by CmdrTaco from the tv-sci-fi dept.
John B. Random writes "I see that Science Fiction Crowsnest has got it's hands on the leaked details of the new Star Trek show set to replace Voyager, Star Trek Excellent." Stupid name but the plot did actually read interesting.
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Details About New Trek Series? More

Details About New Trek Series?

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  • I am really tired of the whole ST big ship thing. The Defiant, their smallest whooping ship, needs 50 crew, and even Voyager's Delta Flyer needs four people. Let's get us a show in North America based on the "one over many" concept, where one man/woman/furry blue creature from Alpha Centauri (oops, some Hitch-Hiker slipped in there) can make a real difference to the universe.

    Oh, and nowhere in the universe should I be able to find Minmei.

    Crazy anime fan, the Lord DebtAngel
  • Not to nitpick too much, but it was a Sovereign class Starship that got controlled with a joystick(in Insurrection.
    The Sovereign is quite a bit smaller and more agile than the Galaxy class, but still much larger than the Defiant. Cheers


    Cliff Palmer, Jr.
  • Correct. There has been mention in TOS (The Original Series) of a race called the Precursers, who seeded a number of planets. It's not at all made clear in this ep. if these people are them, though -- they are the ones who seeded Miri's planet, for instance, which implies a much later time frame than the people of the TNG ep.
    The ulimate goal, as I recall, was to see the various intelliegences of the galaxy live in peace. Needless to to say, they missed a ittle on that one. :)
  • Well if I remember correctly, what the aliens had said was that they had spread their genetic code on planets that had already developed primitive life, so that would make that after the sequence in "All Good Things..."

    Cliff Palmer, Jr.
  • Hey, I love star trek and I got a miniture Enterprise-D to prove it, but I think Iain M. Banks is far more creative than the star trek writers.

    First off, the ship names are better. In star trek, all the ship names are like "Enterprise," "Excelsior," and "Defiant" while the culture has more interesting names such as GCU Prosthetic Conscience (my fav) and GSV No Fixed Abode. Also, the characters in the Culture are also smarter. I remember in Excession where a bot, about to be destroyed, fakes a suicide attack but instead uses it's laser to burn an encoded message onto the enemy ship's hull. Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway would never have thought of something like that! The aliens are also much more interesting (probably because they are part of a book, not a tv show - no need for puppets/models/customes) but just to give you an idea, see what an Idiran [tripod.com] looks like. Finally, the idea of a hedonistic society where you got perfect genes, a built in PDA, and the abilitity to change hex sounds a lot more exciting than exploring space and meeting strange aliens that all look alike.




    _______________________________________________
    There is no statute of limitation on stupidity.
  • Seat belts or harnesses!! How many generations of Starfleet ships have existed only to kill half their bridge crew upon impact with some weapon (everyone goes flying around with exploding panels). Klingons have had half a mind to put shoulder harnesses for gunners. Even the Defiant has everyone sitting or standing unrestrained.

    The Universal Translator shouldn't be the instant language solution. I can't believe that thing could decipher any alien language just for the sake of having all actors speak English. Foreign tongues and subtitles do come in handy sometimes. Oh, and why do the more intellectual aliens get universally translated with British accents??

    Use less bipedal humanoid aliens. It's getting silly seeing the same actors wearing rubber suits and multi orifice masks. They need more aliens that look, well "alien!" More 8479-type aliens. Things with more/less than two legs or arms, different locomotion (levitation, crawling, rolling, etc)

    -----
    Linux user: if (nt == unstable) { switchTo.linux() }
  • There is pretty good evidence that same-sex preferences are "natural" for individuals across several species. Of course, medical science is likely to view a lot of things as disorders - witness the first edition of DSM, which noted a "runaway slave disorder" as a legitimate mental illness definition. Or the speech therapists who "cured" a friend of mine of his Louisiana accent at age eight. Or the number of surgeries, electroshock therapies, etc., which have been administered to make individual appearances and behaviours less "unnatural" and disturbing.

    My recommendation: get therapy. You have a mental illness, xenophobia. It's not natural. You yourself know that something is wrong with you, as you have taken steps to conceal it. Let's pray for a cure soon!

    --
  • I know I massacared his name...

    But Star trek excellent? I know bill and Ted adventures were funny, but I doubt that Mr. reeves will come back to play a dimwitted teenager in searh of excellence with his mighty guitar and badly knarled english...

    "Excellent Bill, hey captian, can we try that guitar riff at warp nine?"

    I know sensless drivel... but if any part of this supposed star trek series has the word excellent anywhere near it, the roddenberry family need to go on a axe-murder rampage....

    What's next? a TV series based on the Foundation series with bobcat Goldthwait and Carrot-top as the lead characters or better yet.. Gilbert Godfrey! he'd make a great alien!

  • Well, according to the Star Tech technical manual (yeah..I've got one), all computer consoles consist of touch screen panel illuminated/powered by one of those plasma channels (sorta like a high energy conduit).

    The concept behind the panels includes a fully customizable set of controls and very high resolution display - all inside a thin plate of some material that has the appearance of a "Miracle Thaw" (and behaves like one when not powered up).

  • It sounds like you are uncomfortable with gays, lesbians, and bisexuals. That's too bad for you, but there is help available. The majority of mental health professionals call that homophobia and are happy to help you overcome that anxiety.

    I'm gay and what you said is offensive. Just because you don't want to see "yucky" homosexuality on TV doesn't mean I don't. Maybe I want to see a gay character in Star Trek? After all, I loyally watched ST:TNG for many, many years.

    It's probably difficult for you to understand, as you think we're "yucky", but queers have to put up with straight poeple flaunting their sexuality in our faces every day.

    So, basically, asking to see ourselves portrayed on TV isn't asking much.
  • Dunno. Sponge Bob and Catdog are two of my kid's (age 4) favorite shows. There are infinitly worse shows on TV that these two (most of daytime TV, I supposes). At least Catdog teachs something about friendship and loyalty in a way that kids can understand.

    He likes Star Trek too, but never got into DS9. And, he loves to watch Will Smith dodge that "green %$&*" fired at him by the "bad aliens".
  • I do not require validation from a television series to feel good about myself. I feel good about myself anyway.

    I do require that people extend the same level of civility that common courtesy demands. You have proven yourself lacking in this regard.

    Why fear and loathe us? There are so many other reasons to hate people based on defects in the character.

  • Your point in well made, but I find it difficult to believe that Star Trek is geared towards children. Maybe.

    But I find it interesting to note that for many, many years in Indianapolis ST:TNG and DS9 were shown at night around 10:30 P.M. Of course, they did air each week's new episode on Saturdays around 6:00 P.M.

    I guess I'm not sure, but I would say that Star Trek is geared towards a wider audience than just children.
  • Ahh, but I am asexual...
    that is a *choice* so why cant homosexality be a choice too?
  • Didn't Picard have a male/male romance anyway?

    I know that Beverly had a delicious female/female thing once :-)

  • Babylon5 and DS9 had one remarkable thing in common: They both sucked until the wars started (the war with the Dominion in DS9 and the Shadow War in B5.)

    Of course, when they go good, they were MUCH better than any but the best episodes of the other Star Trek series'. B5 was even better because it didn't stop every few episodes to do some stupid human interest/secondary-character character growth episode.
  • I belive your right. I've got two points to back up this statement. One absents makes the heart grow stronger. So maybe with a break will it will come back and everyone will like. Now please PLEASE I'm not trying start a flame war. Please everyone put down the fire hoses. But Look at Star Wars. There was a 25 year break and now everyone loves it again. Perhaps that is the way to go.

  • How do you think a straight male would feel if guys kept flirting with him?

    He'd reconsider when it came time to re-up in the Navy.

  • So I gather Cmdr. Data isn't under the General Public Licence? Bad, bad, bad...
  • I have finally been able to get on and have posted the article in its entirety on TrekWeb.COM:

    New Series Rumors @ TrekWeb.COM [trekweb.com]

  • hehe, not quite...
    i just dont have any lust...
    (... for humans that is... ooooh pi, fibanocci...)
  • Star Trek: Holodeck Island -- the name says it all.

    Hmmm...sounds good, but I don't know how the characters would respond to having Khan for a host. (or Soren, from Generations, if you go by the new series)
  • I always wanted a Love Boat Star Trek.
  • How about a revival of Space 1999! Even better series than Voyager!


    --
  • I love Star Trek, but it really is getting a little tired. DS9, Voyager. It's an unpleasant trend.

    -awc
  • Why do you people dislike Voyager so damn much? I thought the last season was very good. I was very scared when they realized they were in the Borg area of the Delta Quad. I think it would be very scary if they ventured to the Borg Homeworld like the great book, Star Trek The Return.

    -brandon
  • There are three plots to choose from for TNG:

    * Evil Data
    * Stuck on Holodeck
    * Q

    Sometimes you can mix them, and have evil data on
    the holodeck.
  • As I read the article it only seemed to be suggesting that the Ships name was "Excellent" not the series. Because, as you so rightly pointed out Star Trek: Excellent sounds quite silly.

    After all, both the original series and TNG had no mention of the ship name in the series title.

  • OK, I'm probably going to piss off a few folks here by saying this, but I just have to say it.

    Ever since Roddenbary died the series has been running on inertia. I would equate the lax plot and writing styles (nevermind the always shoddy Voyager series) to the malaise that set in under John Nathan Turner's tenure as Doctor Who's producer (might I add his tenure resulted in the death of that once fine series?). We have a producer (Berman) who seems more interested in flash and money than pushing the bounds of modern science fiction, which Roddenbery did so well during the original series and during the majority of TNG (you could see when Berman and co. really asserted their influence-the latter half of season 6 and season 7 of TNG were the worst of the lot). What Paramount needs is to get someone in there who really wants to get the franchise back on its feet and return it to its roots-well thought out and inventive stories. Instead I'm seeing more and more stories which rehash the series past without any real creative influx-anyone who remembers the last 9 years of Doctor Who (especially 1984-1989) and the new adventures will agree with me.
  • I'm glad somebody else remembers this, but it was the Preservers, not the Precursers.
  • Hmm.. how long before Naga shows up? O.O

  • > The crew finding an unknown piece of alien technology, and immediately knowing how to operate it/reprogram the computer

    Thats actually quite trivial. They only have to figure out whether the alien race belongs/belonged to the good or the bad guys. Group one uses Unix, so they take some time to compile their favorite tools but then can work very quickly. Group two uses Windows - Which are usually the episodes where the person at the keyboard is heard saying "Almost got it. One more minute, I have nearly figured it out. Damn, Bluescreen!"
  • I am just as much of an ST fan as the next pointy eared fool, all the way back to the original, but I have to ask if I'm the only feeling like it's time this all saw the closing curtain. Doesn't the phrase "water from a stone" come into anyone else's mind reading about this?
  • Good one. Very funny.
  • If the series is set in Star Trek's past, how can they invent a never-before-seen technology to save them at the end of the episode?
  • This is getting ridiculus! (i know that isn't spelled right). It started losing it's appeal after Deep space 9.
  • Well at least titles like that would work for Slayers.
  • Really? I love them both. I think DS9 was very good... especially the 5th and 6th series. I've yet to see the final series (I'm in the UK and don't have Sky).
  • Star Trek: Enema would be more interesting than Voyager. The plot lines in ST:V were hokey, and the dialog wasn't very belivable.
  • We don't suffer from a "condition" any more than a black person suffers from their skin color.

    I have a real problem with your statement that gay people don't propogate. That's an incredibly short-sighted statement to make. Just because someone is gay doesn't mean that he/she doesn't want children. There are non-traditional ways of having babies.

    We've existed all throughout time, and will always be here.
  • OK:

    What happens after six months? It seems to me when the Federation's horde of Defiant-class starships show up and beat the living daylights out of everything in the quadrant (pursuant to the prime directive, of course), the meat of the story would be gone. Not a recipe for a long-running series (unless of course they get blasted into the Epsilon quadrant or the prophets disappear the Fed fleet or whatever).

    Also: The USS Excellent? What, is this in homage to that 20th century classic Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure? How about the USS Homicidal Insanity, the USS Asswhupper? Hell, why not just have the Enterprise show up and save the day (neither the Voyager nor the Defiant look as cool as the old Galaxy class did).

    In any case, so long as they don't wait three or four series to get cool like the last three series have, this plot looks promising.

    ----

  • Star Trek: Plots (Score:4)

    by rde ( 17364 ) on Sunday September 05, 1999 @11:46PM (#1701270)
    I'm at the stage where I don't give a shit what they call the series, as long as it doesn't have the following:

    Holodeck mishaps that lead to danger and amusing adventures

    Technobabble to cover up piss-poor plots

    Major Kira

    Incredibly powerful technology that's a plot device one week and never mentioned again

    Major Kira

    A brand-new alien race that's vaguely based on an old earth culture

    Episodes written by more than eight people

  • Anyone read the Star Trek: New Frontier books? They are great. Great plot and by far the best crew. The captain has Picard's ability with Sisco's strength. Why don't they make a series based off this? Oh wait...this is pretty close. Hmm...lets hope they have a great crew! The Crew saved DS9!

    -brandon

  • Exactly (Score:1)

    by hawk ( 1151 )
    Anyone who's never had sparks or fires from their electronics, and can't tell what type of component is burning by the smell, just isn't pushing them hard enough :)

    hawk, who was nonetheless surprised to find yout that you really do get thrown across the room for touching the coils on a 9" crt . . .
  • On TRO (The Real One), that's a constant issue with McCoy. But the budget didn't allow shuttles until the second season, so he spent a lot of time in them anyway. (For that matter, the transporter exists because the special effects for landing the ship each week were too expensive . . .)
  • >That extention of the Foundation series by
    >someone other than Issac Asimov.

    That extension of the Foundation Trilogy into a purported series by Isaac Asimov :)
  • (Heard about the USS Wyld Stallyn) Captain Bill:Whoa, you totally bones that Klingon in the Head, First Officer Ted! First Officer Ted: Yeah, he was a real bonehead!
  • >TOS covered the Federation when it was already mature

    umm, how do you define "mature" in a manner that allows sending Kirk around the galaxy in a heavily armed ship? :)

    That was the real problem with the newer series: they introduced adult supervision:)
  • I've begun wondering about the way the bridge crew. Clearly there's a second and third shift when the regular lot need to sleep, eat and just not be on the bridge. So why is there only one main bridge crew with all the character and abilities? They should all have experience at working with second studies!

    Apart from that, Voyager is pretty good. (But I'm several seasons behind... :-)

  • Of course, that depends on your definition of "outside"... :-)

    Something that explores the life of the Galaxy in more depth and gritty non-Starfleet life would be intriuging. I think they'd have to do a lot of work, but, to set it up. Maybe they could hire J Michael Stryczinski (sp?) to help.

    Static.


  • "I thought you said he was dead!"

    "No, I said he was sleeping with the fishes..."


    David Gould
  • In the last two years JNT's overall influence on the series began to diminish against Andrew Cartmel's (the best person in Who duringthe 80s), and so some very good authors were recruited. I believe that if someone akin to Phillip Henchcliffe (producer during Tom Baker's best years) had been brought in, the series never would have died.

    The best thing a new Who series could do is abandon a lot of the older continuity, and return to the roots of an inventive sci fi series where anything goes. The moment a who author wrote himself into a box and decided something would not fly, the story died. Unless you had Tom Baker working as the Doctor, and even then things sometimes tanked.

  • That still doesn't explain away the fact that a joystick simply doesn't provide enough controls to effectively control a ship in 3 dementional space (You need at least for axies of motion, that joystick provided two).

  • They all take place in the same time period.
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Why does the universal translator work for every language encountered but not work for Klingon?
  • > To effectively control a airplane (spaceships are a little bit different, but for an airplane) you need 4 "range of motion" controls, and a whole bunch of buttons.

    Then so be it. Hey, they control real spaceships with joysticks. Try to find pictures of the control consoles used in the Apollo mission spaceships (sorry, don't have an URL handy).

    My point was that analog control is just a lot more accurate than digital button pressing. Not to mention that you can control a lot of functions with one hand staying on the joystick. As opposed to hitting different buttons. Even the simplest joystick gives you the equivalent of four buttons.

    The number of jets don't really matter, because that has to be controlled by computer anyway. What I was talking about is how to tell the computer what to do.
  • Well i hope a law suit goes on. This is kinda blatently ripped off the comedy/action series The slayers. Its a japanesse animation that is on the second series here in the states called slayers next. I hear they have a third seson going on in japan called slayers excellent. prob just a coincidence but all the voices in my head can't be wrong can they?
  • "Star Trek! Excellent! Party Time!"

    "Let's welcome out first guest ``the borg chick from First Contact.'' Scha-wing!"
  • Heh, Precursors was from a computer game. Ack, I can't think of the name, but it was in a series, I think three games. Typically, you has a Precursor vehicle and you went around talking to various races, getting resources, artifacts, etc. The Ur-Quan were evil, at least some of them, some of the time. Star Control, I think.
  • no, YOU SUCK beyond all reason, j/k I liked b5, TNG was really fantastic. now, if you want a show that sucks beyond all reason, just look to voyager. it's as bad as any other cheesy syndicated action show
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"

  • To tell you the truth, I beat Microsoft Fury III using only my keyboard as a control.

    To effectively control a airplane (spaceships are a little bit different, but for an airplane) you need 4 "range of motion" controls, and a whole bunch of buttons. The best joystick I ever used only provided 3 "Range" controls and 4 buttons. (The range controls you need are Up-down left-right faster-slower and leftspin-rightspin) you just can't control an airplane well with only a joystick (even in an actual fighter jet, you have up, down, left, right, in, out, and two petals).

    For a large spaceship, things are significantly more complex, because you have to control (most likely) hundreds of different jets to control what's happening to the ship, and you just plain can't make 180 degree turns quickly. For a small "figher class" spaceship, the problems are similar, although you don't have as many jets. In space, any movement has to take into account a large number of variables, and exactly what is to be done must eithor be painfully calculated out by hand, or left to a computer to do. Especially in a difficult situation, you better just let the computer handle it. I don't even see how you could configure a joystick to control something as complex as a Soverign class starship...

  • low production values (the amount of money spent to make it), bad acting, and terrible writing.

    it's a bad show, and does a huge disservice to the star-track story :(
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • The Milky Way is 100,000 light years in diameter. It is in the part where we are 650 light years thick. So if you are going to divide into big chunks you can just as well leave away the third dimension. If you want more granularity the quadrants are way too big.

  • Nah, as you said, they couldn't even power the thing up, so there's no chance they could have studied the internal computer system, figured out how the mother ship worked, found a security hole, and designed a virus. Also, they most assuredly couldn't have delivered that virus from a *Powerbook*.

  • "General lameness in science/technology..the writers obviously don't know or care about sci/tech, and the fact that they write scripts and fill in techie-sounding words later shows their disdain/lack of interest in science - which is pretty sad given it's a sci-fi show."

    My respect for Star Trek (except the original) declined rapidly as I grew up, but I think the nail in the coffin was when I read a little of the script for "Insurrection" online. Here's a quote:

    "...they inject something into the rings that starts a [TECH] reaction. After it's over, the planet will be unlivable for generations."

    There's the science behind Star Trek. (It's not an isolated example, by the way, the script is full of it.)
  • Hehe. I just KNEW someone would derive a Slayers reference (fyi, the different series and movies have the following names - Perfect, Great, Excellent, Next, Gorgeous - they must have picked up an english thesaurus and looked up "superlative"...) :)
  • More proof that Neo == Ted (or was that bill, whatever)
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Yeah!

    And the next time they're reading elevated neutrino levels or quantum fluctuations, I demand to know how they do it.

    And about those transporters: why hasn't the issue of morality regarding these devices ever been raised? Essentially every time someone is transported, he/she is murdered, disintegrated on the spot, and with the energy released in your destruction, an identical copy of you is made elsewhere. It's like "I didn't really murder him, your honor, because I cloned him in the process!"
  • How can you devide 3d space into only 4 quadrents? (in a similar way to the x-y grid)
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Yeah i wonder why Earth is the center? Wasn't Vulcan where it all started? also the new rts game tells the story of the beggining of the Federation.

    -brandon
  • Are you an expert?

    Because the REAL experts say otherwise. The American Psychiatric Association took homosexuality off their list of mental disorders in 1973. In 1975 the American Psychological Associate passed a resolution supporting the action.

    They did this because homosexuality is not associated with emotional or social problems. In other words, we have normals lives. That's why you can't compare us to people with ADD or schizophrenia. Something isn't a mental disorder *just* because of something chemically wrong inside our bodies. If that were true then we'd all be mentally disturbed by your definition.
  • My gullibility needed an outlet, and it turns out that zoning on Star Trek Rev X.X is a lot cheaper than Scientology.
  • Heh; agreed.

    I've read a few sci-fi books in my time and those that deal with this type of transportation invariably bring up those issues.

    Though, from what I've read, in the Star Trek universe, the transporters capture every single bit of information about the matter that makes up the person as is possible, right down to the energy levels, *spins* of the particles, orientation of the molecules, etc. It then re-assembles everything *precisely* as it was before.

    So I guess it all boils down to whether or not you believe a person has a "soul" or if they're just the sum of their component atoms and molecules and energy states.

    Of course, it's all fiction anyways, but it's always fun to poke holes into it and try to patch them up again.
  • Look at our galaxy from the top (so it looks like a giant circle) and divide it into 4 pie slices. Each slice isn't two-dimensional, but it still ends up cutting the 3D galaxy into 4 manageable chunks. That's how they do it in the Star Trek universe.

    Of course what *I* want to know is how they deal with moving borders. Our galaxy is hardly keeping still, with the outer edges moving slower than areas nearer to the core. After a few years (hundred years, thousand, whatever), the "quadrants" will start getting swirled around unless they keep re-adjusting the borders.
  • Actually...if you go back and watch even the pilot movie, you'll find foreshadowing of the coming war. One specific bit to watch for: G'Kar offhandedly mentions that "there are no Narn telepaths". The entire first season is strewn with things that didn't seem to mean much when first seen, but after seeing the entire 5 years - have great significance.

    So it wasn't like they threw in a war to make things interesting (the way DS9 obviously did) - the entire series basically -was- the Shadow war..the leadup to it, the actual battles, and the aftermath (along with a few interesting asides).

    JMS (the creator) basically had the entire thing planned out, beginning to end, and that's what made B5 so great..a single pretty coherent vision of a BIG story. Unlike the Treks, which have become: what are we gonna do -this- week? (Although DS9 did break from that a bit, but it was still kind of hacked-together)

  • It'd be cool if (Score:4)

    by RoLlEr_CoAsTeR ( 39353 ) on Sunday September 05, 1999 @11:48PM (#1701354)
    Star Trek aliens had makeup on something more than their faces/necks. I realize this will likely be moderated Flamebait, and so be it, but honestly, I find their aliens/races rather uninteresting.

    Furthermore, it seems that they mix at will, and the mixing doesn't do much to produce a more exciting race, and the ony way you can tell the difference is if you watch the show more than once, or memorize all the different tattoes they like to wear. Or their big hair and ridged foreheads (re: Klingons).

    I'm not saying Star Trek isn't a good show, because I like it and I used to watch it every day (back in the days when I watched T.V.) but I don't anymore, and I love Star Wars a heck of a lot more than I like Star Trek, maybe because they seem more creative or something.. It couldn't be the fact that their alien races actually look like alien races, or that they have lightsabers, or....

    But back on topic, I think this is interesting, and I'd certainly try it out. Yay Star Trek!

  • New Plot: It's Not too Late! ST: RD (Score:3)

    by Skyshadow ( 508 ) on Sunday September 05, 1999 @11:55PM (#1701361) Homepage
    Psiren's .sig gave me a flash of inspiration concerning the new series. ATTN: Rick Berman -- it's not too late to put out the best Trek series ever! This fall, prepare yourself for: Star Trek: Red Dwarf

    That's right, we follow the adventures of the intrepid crew of the USS Red Dwarf, a ship crewed entirely by (for some reason) the english. And a cat. And a hologram. And (later) a mechanoid. And (even later) a woman.

    OK, you guessed: Actually, we just retread the old Red Dwarf episodes with a new Trek-type opening sequence (the voiceover would be dymanic, featuring Holly's introduction to the series and the requisite joke about gym teacher's IQ).

    Disadvantages: Lack of women in skin-tight outfits. Advantages: Lack of women, surplus of beer.

    So, it's cheap to produce and Rick Berman wouldn't be able to fsck it up. Any takers?

    ----

  • What, not "Star Trek: The Marrissa Cronicles?" (Score:3)

    by Masem ( 1171 ) on Monday September 06, 1999 @12:00AM (#1701365)
    Or did Steven R.'s idea get shot down at the
    start? :-)

  • Re:Star Trek: Plots (Score:3)

    by shambler snack ( 17630 ) on Monday September 06, 1999 @12:02AM (#1701374) Homepage
    Other plot gimmicks and "features" worth excluding:
    • Westley Crusher saves his ass.
    • Westley Crusher saves his virginity.
    • Westley Crusher saves the day.
    • Westley Crusher saves the ship.
    • Westley Crusher saves the planet.
    • Westley Crusher saves life as we know it.
    • Beverly Crusher fawning all over Westley.
    • Beverly Crusher jepardizing Federation interests in pursuit of her ideals.
    • Any episodes where they have to eat meal worms.
    • Any alien creatures with speed-bumps on their foreheads.
    • Any alien creatures that look like they've all been hit in the nose too many times.
    • Any alien creatures that can't say anything more than "We find things".
    • Any alien creatures that look like warmed-over Star Wars characters from Return of the Jedi and are seemingly named after a French cheese.

  • Just what the world needs: another moralistic, SF TV series. The theme I've noticed throughout the posts in this topic is that ST episodes are rehashed versions of episodes from the original series, the aliens (and characters) are shallow and two-dimensional.

    What is worse is that it is bad science fiction. Aliens that coinicidentaly look like humans and parallel cultures from our own world. Pseudo-scientific explanations run amok (its all quantum physics you know) as if it were some kind of New Age Scientist meeting. Maybe this was all quite sophisicated stuff during the sixties and seventies but this is the post-Alien nineties. Do we need to be patronised like this?

    What is worse, I feel that the latest Star Trek series (DS9, Voyager, whatever) betray the original vision of the great liberatarian, Gene Rodenbury. The mordern federation has become a disturbing vision of a vaguely fascistic utopia. Did you know that GR intended to have gay characters in the next series of ST:TNG, just before he died. I don't see them in any of the new series? I guess it didn't fit the whole Star Trek corporate identity.
  • If you ask me, Star Trek is the ideal kids show (for like 10-15 year olds). It's also good for us "older" kids, don't get wrong. What I mean is that it is really a show aimed at the younger audience members. I mean, I hope that 20, 30, and 40+ year olds don't need morality messages daily. :-)

    But for a younger audience, I think it fits most peoples' definition of "good television" for children. It's a fairly "geek" oriented show, emphasizing knowledge of science and technology, showing both men and women in roles of responsibility. These same smart scientific folks are also fit and athletic, which is important in this day and age of couch potatos. There are also good messages in all of the shows, which, if you agree with the messages, are good for kids to see.

    Admittedly, this makes it annoying for the rest of us that don't need the moral lessons, but I would love to have my children (if I had any) watch star trek with me. I'll be sad if there isn't a Star Trek to watch when I do have kids.

    As for today, though, I think DS9 was the first Star Trek series that lost the morality message (Wheel of Morality, turn turn turn ;-) and became more of a science fiction soap, with a running plot line. That, I liked. I was sad to see it go.

    Sujal

  • Re:New Plot: It's Not too Late! ST: RD (Score:3)

    by Masem ( 1171 ) on Monday September 06, 1999 @12:22AM (#1701395)
    How about ST:MST3K where our crew (one guy and 3
    robots) visits strange alien cultures and make
    fun of their cinema?

  • (This is waaaayyy off the original topic, but I'm going to post it here, 'cause it's relevant to the thread we're in...)

    First off, there is considerable evidence that Homosexuality is GENETIC, and not a physiological condition. This is not proven yet, but it's definately a strong possibility.

    Thus, you aren't going to "Cure" a homosexual, any more than I could get a "straight" person to change.

    The AMA and the American Psychologists Association have wised up, and no longer consider homosexuality a "disease" or "correctible-condition". It's who gay people are. Period.

    Also, there is considerable natural evidence that homosexuality occurs in a large number of mammals. Many primates have been observed engaging in homosexual behavior, and it's also been seen in animals such as wolf/wild dog packs.

    Like the poster above pointed out, black skin in humans is an adaptation to an outside stimulus. So is homosexuality. The stimulus in this case is overpopulation. I liken genetic homosexuality as a mutation (remember, mutations can be either Good OR Bad, depending on environmental conditions). It seems to be getting expressed more and more these days, which leads to the question: how badly are we overpopulated that environmental effects are causing this to be expressed? Thus, homosexuality IS A FAVORABLE ADAPTATION IN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. It may not be favorable for the individual to pass on his or her specific genes, but it's beneficial to the SPECIES.

    For a good look at how human society might change over time, w/r/t population and sexuality, I suggest you read The Forever War by Joe Haldeman. It's a good Sci-Fi read, and it looks at human evolution on the macro-level (over the course of about 3000 years).

    People, you are going to have to accept that homosexuals are here, have always been here, and will continue to be here. I'm rather disgusted to listen to fellow straight folks claim that homosexuals are somehow bad deviants or lesser beings. It makes me sick. Grow Up!

    To see how inane you sound, replace the word "homosexual" (or "gay" or "lesbian") with the word "nigger". Oooh. Ooops. You ended up sounding like a nice 1840s intellectual espousing the rightness (and superiority) of whites over the black man. How enlightened.

    -Erik

    We fear what we do not understand...

  • Picking on Star Trek for its lack of gay characters is, frankly, silly; no SF series features/featured a regular gay character (include Ivanova and Talia Winters if you like, but that was only one scene). Trek has made a couple of half-assed attempts at addressing the issue (once each in TNG and DSN), which is more than any other series has done. You can argue that this was done because of public demand, but whatever their motivation they did try to address it in some manner.
    As for what GR wanted: I don't mean to sound callous, but who cares? I'm sure the creator of MacGyver didn't want the series to turn into the piece of shit that it did, but it's got something in common with trek: it's only a television programme.
    BTW: My nomination for best heading ever goest o 'But Where Are the Homosexuals?'
  • Clearly Paramount has been taking sequel-naming lessons from the makers of the animé series Slayers ...

    (whose sequels have names like "Slayers NEXT", "Slayers GREAT", "Slayers GORGEOUS" ...)
  • Have you watched Farscape? (it's on sci-fi channel) They actually do a good job of making the aliens look alien, for the most part, and they do use full-body makeup quite a bit. They also use muppets for some species. The writing on that show kinda sucks, but it's better than Star Trek's in many ways (and they don't rely on deus ex or short attention spans)... They also do a much better job of the 'universal translator' idea; it's somewhat like the babelfish in HHGTTG, and not everything translates properly (idioms and connotative expressions in particular).

    They also do a much better job of the science on the show, namely that they don't try to adapt our notions of science to it (badly), but instead have a complete separate set of rules and they stick to it (gee, how about that).
    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.

  • Well, this isn't exactly related, except that it is a star trek observation.

    A few people have mentioned the episode where it was reveiled that all the humanoid races were descended from the one race that colonized many planets before they died off.

    Well, I seem to recall another episode where due to some sort of genetic disease (i believe that was the cause), everyone started de-evolving into whatever their race origionally came from. Humans started turning more apelike, and Worf started turning into some sort of large spider like creature.

    Dosen't exactly sound much like races that evolved from the same genetic material to me. I know I'm just getting picky, but it would be nice if shows like this checked their old episodes for inconsistencies before coming out with new ones that just blow everything away.
  • Also, no more:
    • Tetryon beams...I swear ever third show or so of TNG, DS9, and Voyager has had some crisis resolved by someone suggesting: "If we could just generate a phased/modulated/inverted tetyron beam, that would blah blah blah." I wish ST scripts were online somewhere, so I could search and find out how many times they've done that.
    • Countdowns...a favorite plot device of ST writers. "Sir, we will be stone cold dead in exactly 13 seconds! 13, 12, 11,..."
    • The crew finding an unknown piece of alien technology, and immediately knowing how to operate it/reprogram the computer
    • Episodes made up of a major, and a minor, but barely if ever related storys..TNG was terrible about this: "War breaks out with the Klingons! and Data struggles with litterbox training Spot..on the next exciting episode of..". It's like they couldn't get one decent idea, so would glom two half-assed ones together.
    • Transporters breaking down at critical moments..fix the damn things!
    • Idiot admirals giving riduculous orders (a favorite of TNG again)
    • exploding bridge consoles...does Starfleet build them with pyrotechnics already installed? They're just computers for chrissakes..why is anything combustable in them?
    • General lameness in science/technology..the writers obviously don't know or care about sci/tech, and the fact that they write scripts and fill in techie-sounding words later shows their disdain/lack of interest in science - which is pretty sad given it's a sci-fi show.
      • Barry

  • The Star Trek series I'd like to see (Score:4)

    by Pascal Q. Porcupine ( 4467 ) on Monday September 06, 1999 @01:13AM (#1701456) Homepage
    I'd like to see a ST series based on the Federation at its very beginnings. I mean, most of what happens then is unexplained... TOS covered the Federation when it was already mature, TNG and the first half of DS9 covered a period of stagnation, the second half of DS9 and all of Voyager cover a later period when they've become arrogant and just try to throw better and more expensive toys at every problem... anything set after Voyager would be depressing, anything between TOS and TNG would be boring. But something set between First Contact and TOS would kick ass, IMO. Why did Earth become the center of the Federation? How did people get accustomed to socialistic society? Couldn't have happened overnight... There must have been quite a bit of dissention among the ranks. And so forth.

    Just my US$0.02... I haven't read the plot for this 'excellent' series yet, since the server's /.ed.
    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.

  • I always figured they were more or less like CRTs today when you shove 1000s of watts through them (IE by phaser fire). Of course 90% of Star Trek injuries could be prevented with a simple 50 cent fuse...
  • Ooh, that sounds even better! One month it'd be about the beginnings of the Federation, another month it'd be about the first contact between Klingons and Romulans... I like it!
    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
  • Yeah. I watch it with the sound off, just to see the lovely Kira.

    I've tried it with the sound on a time or two, and found that I wasn't missing much.

    Sorry about the apparent flame bait, but I just don't like the series. Didn't like the original with Captain Dork; don't like the sequels. And what I really, really don't like is a galaxy full of aliens with plastic heads and childish personalities.

    But Kira, I like.

  • In the original, I couldn't brook a story line where every time an unknown and presumably dangerous planet was found, the Captain and his top officers immediately beamed down to check it out.

    Also, it was kinda lame to know in advance that if ever a previously unseen crew member beamed down with them, he was going to die.

  • What *I'd* love to see is a series in the Star Trek universe, but *NOT* on one of those damn annoying goody-two-shoes Starfleet ships.

    Maybe something like a run-down merchant/smuggler vessel working on the fringes of the Federation territory, with a really small crew, perhaps with a Klingon female commander (just think of the possibilities!) and a drunk engineer!

    You could have the crew be severely dysfunctional, the ship falling apart half the time & a lot of shows would be about 1) survival, 2) getting themselves out of whatever scrape they got themselves into (which might be the same as #1 :)
  • I had the pleasure of meeting Peter David at a con last year. People talked about the idea of starting a new series based upon his books (I haven't read them, but the responses to them were very positive). There are two reasons why a series or movie based on his novels will never happen.
    1. At the con, Peter David talked about how much the people in charge of Trek hated anything outside of their little world when it came to making movies or episodes & the like. Majel Barrett-Roddenberry wanted to do an episode of ST:TNG based on David's wonderful novel Q-In-Law, but the folks in charge of Trek deep sixed it from the giddy-up. They won't do tie-in-related stuff. Also, even if they did, by some miracle, change their policy and do a series based on his novels, you wouldn't recognize the characters and situations you love when it hit the small screen. Read some of Harlan Ellison's stuff about writing for television. Also, read "The Goldfish Pool and Other Stories" by Neil Gaiman. It's published in his collection, Smoke and Mirrors, and it's a sadly funny story about how Hollywood screws with really good ideas (It's about other wonderful things, too, but the bit about Hollywood screwing with good ideas is what's relavant to this discussion). You ever wonder why movies based on your favorite books are rarely anything like the book, even if the author of the book is involved with the project? This story illlustrates why, and a TV series would be even worse.
    2. This is my personal opinion, but I think most Trek fans are not able to deal with anything that's too far off of the original Trek idea. My favorite series has been DS9 for a long time. Yes, it had a lot of weak episodes, but when it was on, it was really on. I mean, it was a lot like the original trek in that they took risks like having Steve Barnes write an episode. It surpassed any of the other Treks by dealing with the problems of one area and not taking off for a new place every week. DS9 was definately the most challenging of the shows, but it was also consistantly lower-rated than ST:TNG, for example. People are too resistant to change to make a new series work.

    It's funny how many lists to which I end up posting about this topic, because in the giant scheme of things, it's Soooooooo not important. But I grew up with Trek; it strangely feels like family. I think it's time to let it go, though. Don't keep making series just for the sake of making series. That's just sad.

  • As for what GR wanted: I don't mean to sound callous, but who cares? I'm sure the creator of MacGyver didn't want the series to turn into the piece of shit

    I'm sure GR cares. I'm sure his family cares, and anyone who understands the underlying theme of Star Trek will care. This is what I mean when I say Star Trek is bad SF: its turned into pulp escapism that never challenges
    its audience and never will. Rodenbury was a libertarian idealist. He had the first regular black, female character on any American network ever. Now everyone buys into the strangely posesive yet supposedly money-free society of the Federation where every has a job, everyone is happy and healthy: sounds strangely fascist to me.

    Oh, and MacGyver has always been shit.

    I have to disagree with you comments about homosexuality in ST: A lot of dramas have gay charcters in them, certainly a lot of those in Enlightened England. I can only assume Star Trek TM probably decided after GR's death that it wouldn't sell so well so ditched it. Or maybe they figure it will be eradicated in the future... scary!

    BTW: Thanks for the nomination. I was impresssed myself.

  • New Series Ideas (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Wow, everybody seems to hate Voyager and love TNG...
    I remember seeing ST:TNG with a roomful of college classmates... we were all slack-jawed over how awful it was. To each his own, I guess.
    Anyway, there are no new ideas in Hollywood, so why not just embrace that fact.
    • TOS was based on "Wagon Train."
    • TNG was based on, um, "Wagon Train."
    • DS9 is "F-Troop."
    • Voyager is "Gilligan's Island."

    Star Trek: Raisa -- set your sails for adventure, your mind on a new romance. Each week Isaac, your Klingon bartender, helps a new cast of characters seek whatyamacallit.
    Star Trek: Badlands -- okay, so they killed off Sloane. But Sloane's clone and his sidekick Artemus Changeling kick alien tail throughout the wild, wild badlands in the name of the Federation.
    Star Trek: Holodeck Island -- the name says it all.
    Star Trek Blues -- Due to a major reorganization, security uniforms are now blue. Join the phaser-bait in their squad room, where they wait for the call from the bridge that could mean LIFE OR DEATH! Let's be careful out there...
    Star Trek: Ferengi Exposure -- Julian Bashir is just marking time as a frontier doctor on the Ferengi homeworld. He's a fish out of water, but is finally charmed by the locals.
    Star Trek Bloopers -- never underestimate the stupidity of the viewership. People can't get enough of the same old clips.
    Star Trek: Cadet Squad -- not all Star Fleet cadets can be in Red Squad. Follow the antics of cadets who just squeaked by on the entrance exam.
    Star Trek: Riker's Heroes -- what do you get when you mix an inept Vorta jailkeeper, a lovable Jem'Hadar guard, and a raft of Federation inmates? Espionage and sabotage behind the lines in the Gamma quadrant!

  • Re:Star Trek: Plots (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Even with all those problems ST:TNG (along with classic trek) is still the best IMHO. Why?

    • Compelling characters
    • THEY DID NOT RELY ON THE TECH!!! - tech was a means to an end and an acessory to the story (with some exceptions)
    • STORY STORY STORY!!! TNG had some great story concepts - "Ship in a Bottle", and some excellent moral & ethical explorations (Voyager is just a hollow re-hash of these concepts)

    I thing Trek is past its prime. It seems that DS9 was going nowhere until the writers followed B5's lead in creating a coherent story arc. Oh well, the best SF for the eighties/early ninties is ST:TNG, for the rest of the nineties it's B5.

    Respectfully,

    Kevin Christie

    kwchri@maila.wm.edu

  • Actually, there are a good number of homosexuals and bisexuals who hardly breath a word of their sexuality. The people who broadcast their sexuality like that are the more forward homosexuals and bisexuals. If you think about it, there's a very good reason for them to broadcast it. How do you think a straight male would feel if guys kept flirting with him? He'd probablly get tired of it pretty quickly and want to find a way to broadcast that he's straight. Well, homosexual people think the same way, they gay guys want guys flirting with them and the lesbians want other lesbians flirting with them. Broadcasting like this also makes it more likely that they'll find someone else with their own sexuality. What are the chances of two needles finding each other in a haystack if one doesn't yell?
  • If Commander Data can be created, why can't a starship be similarly intelligent and run itself?

    That's because Dr. Soong was the only person ever able to create a stable neural net. And he's dead now, so he can't exactly help. :)

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

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