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New G2 RealPlayer Alpha 113

Posted by Roblimo from the isn't-a-second-alpha-a-beta? dept.
The Rebel writes "It appears RealNetworks has an updated Alpha G2 RealPlayer for Linux. Its dated 9-29-99 and you can get it here." Yep. Fresh dates on the files. Anyone tried this "new" version? Is it really any different from the old one? Should we all run and download it or wait for the beta?
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New G2 RealPlayer Alpha More

New G2 RealPlayer Alpha

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  • Why would Linux users really want to mess with Real Audio as compaired to QuickTime. At least with QuickTime there is a open source streaming server available for Linux, there isn't such a thing for Real Audio.

    Anyone have a reason for one over the other?

  • Um, it's ok (Score:3)

    by Fizgig ( 16368 ) on Wednesday September 29, 1999 @10:07PM (#1649421)
    I just downloaded this one a few hours ago after I got a notice that my old version had expired. My main complaint with this version is the CPU usage. 95%?! And that's only because more important things are taking up the other 5%. I don't remember the previous alpha being this slow. The audio quality seems about the same, it works with esddsp (I don't think it did before), and it hasn't crashed on me since I've gotten it (used it for a grand total of 15 minutes, though). But the CPU usage gets to me. I don't think the Windows version uses 95% of my 300mhz processor. Then again, maybe it does and I just didn't notice it before. But the sound gets choppy if I try to multitask while it's playing, which I haven't noticed before.
  • I'd love to. Do they have a Solaris version out too?

  • From linuxtoday (Score:5)

    by lubricated ( 49106 ) <michalp@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday September 29, 1999 @10:11PM (#1649423)
    Apperantly this is not really an upgrade.

    "Many Linux users found that their Real Player G2 programs stopped working this morning. Apparently Real Networks encoded an expiration date in the code. After some quick calls to Real Networks and some fast foot work by their technical people, the Linux G2 player has been patched so that it will not be expired. "

    from linuxtoday [linuxtoday.com]

  • At least for Sorenson and whatever proprietary codecs are stashed in there. At least there is a Real client for Linux that works for some people.

    I say "some people" because I never got the rpm to work (issues with RH 6.0?) and doing it manually was a no-go. I might try this new version in a day or two if there aren't any serious issues with this new version.

  • Real Player in Slackware (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Anybody know if its possible to get the Real Player G2 to run in Slackware with libc5? Besides going to glibc of course..
  • This is in glibc only - grrr!

  • yes, it's fixed (Score:3)

    by joey ( 315 ) <joey@kitenet.net> on Wednesday September 29, 1999 @10:31PM (#1649428) Homepage
    Contrary to what you'll read in the comments after the linuxtoday article, the red hat rpm version is also fixed, though they did break a symlink.

    It also appears to have some new features, like playing a little sound clip on startup. And a new "presents" menu.

    FWIW, I've uploaded the updated debian .deb package for realplayer, and it will appear in debian unstable this afternoon.
  • ...this is not really an upgrade.

    And do they plan on delivering anything more than this barely-OK alpha? I'm beginning to doubt it. And there's still no non-x86-Linux support. I'll stop whining now; if you've tried the "first" alpha, you probably have an idea of what sucks about it.

    Of course, this is still better than MS, who promised a new NetSho^H^H^H^H^H^HMedia Play^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HWindows Media Player client for Linux for over a year, then switched to the "What's a Linux?" routine.

    --

  • > Do they have a Solaris version out too?

    Yep. Use this link:

    Kai
  • One of the few obvious changes in this release is the ability to play MP3's. Just what I wanted: yet another MP3 player. OTOH, I shouldn't complain too loudly because the RealAudio and RealVideo support even in the previous alpha version have worked flawlessly for me.

    According to the release notes, this version sort of works with Flash content but doesn't yet play Quicktime or AVI files.
  • > Do they have a Solaris version out too?

    Huh? Where did the link go?

    OK, here it is again: http://www.real.com/products/player/downloadrealpl ayer.html?wp=dl0899&src=990919choice_1&l ang=en

    Kai
  • Not possible. You're going to have to upgrade to our sketchy glibc2 that is more stable with less security holes.
  • It supports most of the common quicktime codecs..
  • Big fat reason #1: installed base.

    There are a gazillion more existing feeds out there on Real than QuickTime. I'm not going to debate the technical or social superiority of either client or server; for me and my box, it boils down to how many feeds I can tune into.

    (well, to tell the truth, x11amp [now xmms for some godawful reason] is the client I use the most, sucking down shoutcast and icecast feeds)

  • I just hope that it isn't anything like the Windows version, which I managed to get rid of after about half an hour of registry hacking. I dumped QuickTime while I was there.

    Both of the programs seem to think that they're the first software that came around that can read GIFs and JPEGs, since they seem to associate every file name the developers could think of with themselves. In reality, they fail to read some of them, but they associate themselves anyway.

    Not to mention that QuickTime has that annoying "Upgrade to QuickTime Pro now" nag, and Real tries really really hard to get you to pay $29.95 (it took me about 5 minutes to find a link to the free version).

    Come to think of it, I think that's one of the major reasons for those Netscape 4.x releases - all the bundled crap that came with them. AIM 3.0, RealPlayer, Netscape Radio, Winamp!, and PalmPilot Sync tools... ::sigh:: I think I'll just stick with good ol' 4.08 standalone.

    --

  • is still stuck back on 3.0.
    At least the linux.bin installs/runs under
    emulation.

  • Recommendation: Go ahead and try it (Score:3)

    by Somnus ( 46089 ) on Wednesday September 29, 1999 @11:09PM (#1649439)
    So installed the new "G2 RealPlayer" alpha for Linux on my box. My observations:
    • Input gain is a lot lower, so I don't have to crank down the master volume every time I want to play a clip (this could have been an oddity specific to my machine with the earlier version).
    • Subjectively, overall sound quality is significantly better, with much higher a signal-to-noise ratio. Plus, video quality and stability is much, much better.
    • CPU usage is insane, as noted by at least one other person. I have an SMP box, and it's hogging one whole processor, according to "top."
    • The "Lowest CPU Usage Best Quality" adjustment in "Preferences" seems to have an effect on quality in this version, with no apparent effect on CPU usage.
    Testing environment:
    • Dual Pentium Pro on a 66 MHz motherboard with on-board Soundblaster Vibra 16 chip.
    • Linux kernel 2.2 SMP, with "standard" Sounblaster driver settings.
    • Red Hat-based glibc2 distribution of my own making.
    • All sound output piped to a Sony SRS mini-system.

      I'm curious about the results others have had. It seems like Real just tried to get stuff working with the last version, and has activated optimizations (or something) with this version -- just speculation.


      *** Proven iconoclast, aspiring bohemian. ***
  • RealPlayerG2, as well as some older versions of RealPlayer 5.0 has a nasty bug: after exactly 1 hour of listening to a live broadcast, the player stops broadcasting, although the player goes on downloading the stream data. At least that happens under RedHat glibc-based systems. OTOH the latest 5.0 works great with the open.so patch.

    Also, I do not understand why it has to steal almost all my cpu cycles (OTOH RealPlayer 5.0 = 2.5%). I added a nice -19 to G2 and works fine. Presets are not saved correctly. Instead of saving the remote location, it saves a local file created under /tmp.

    I guess Im gonna wait a little til it gets better.
  • I'll eat my previous words. It even streams MP3s, including those without the .mp3 suffix. But you still can't zoom video. Maybe in a year or two there will be a beta; this thing's still flaky.

    --

  • The new beta only uses 33% of my CPU, it lets me move around in the clips (something I couldn't do before), and double size....
    --
  • The quality of audio and video provided by Real is mediocre. All the market needs is a better format and player, and Real's users will jump ship as soon as it takes them to download the other software.

    Quicktime has the potential, as it already whoops ass on RealPlayer on the technical side, but falls short on the user side. As I see it, Apple needs to fix three things before Qucktime can fully take over the internet:

    1. More clients! Minimum they need a Linux client, and wouldn't hurt if they released a general Unix player and one for the BeOS.

    2. This is one of the few times (only time?) that Apple has made a user interface that totally sucks ass. The airbrushed aluninum (sp) look is cool, but the UI needs a total overhawl.

    3. Ditch the nagware for the most basic functions. If I want to edit videos and save steams to my hard drive, pester me, but not for basic playback features!

    If Apple can fix these things, they're in a position to bury Real and Microsoft, but not while they're screwing up on the little details.
  • Thanks for the info, but that page only allows downloading the 5.0 version. Am I missing something?
  • So, several months ago, the old beta came out. Excuse me, alpha. Whatever. It's slightly better than nothing, I guess.

    At the time, I was still using a 486 as my main computer (save the jeers for someone who cares :) and I wasn't worried about it.

    So a couple weeks ago, I finally moved up to the late 1990s with an AMD K6-2 with more MHz than I really know what to do with. I start digging through Real Networks' site, trying to find this package, it's nowhere to be found. Site searches prove futile with all the keywords I can think of, etc. I can get (and in fact have gotten) RealPlayer 5.0, but that's all.

    Yay Slashdot! Here's a new version! Oh, wait, it's actually the same as the old version. Real Networks hasn't, according to other /. posters, actually changed or improved the code beyond removing an old timeout.

    It's three a.m., I must be lonely. Let's go download this baby. Hm. Well, it's glibc-only. Maybe I need to do that glibc upgrade anyway...

    So what do we have? Six-month-old software, which is pretty old these days. The Linux version only supports a limited range of platforms (x86/glibc) - no libc5, no Alpha, nothing.

    From Real Networks, Linux don't get no respect.

    Is this level of support actually worth the trouble? It just seems wrong for them to pretend to have Linux support when they're not going to actually put effort into it.

  • Yay. Yet another MP3 player. Dammit, Real- just give us the ability to zoom video! Thats pretty much the only thing that makes me use my dual-boot into windoze. Making a Linux client just isn't enough to satisfy us. How about making one that actually works? I pity BeOS etc. users even more.
  • Ok, sure. Real has a massive disloyal install base.

    Or do they? I would use QuickTime readily, but, honestly, how many broadcast media sites offer things in quicktime? They too are interested in the most clients being able to get their info, and if they're limited to one format, it's probably going to be Real's format.

    Apple does need to do a few things to make QuickTime viable.

    1. Apple needs to release the codec. Or at a player's API. Something that will allow others to create players. I would suggest making it a limited 'Play back only' thing, and have the True Apple QuickTime Player be the Damn Cool one that can save streams, and edit them, etc. etc.
    2. Apple also needs to take a good look at their market and decide if they really want to take on Real or not..


      1. I want a rock.
  • No, you're right. Hmm, their pages are quite confusing. Maybe you should email them and ask. After all, according to that page, they only have 5.0 for Linux too while G2 is on another page.
  • bah. They properly embraced and extended RTSP so completely that their "developers" "open" SDK is totally useless...

    No, I'm not complaining that real audio isn't open source. But why the hell can't I homebrew my own friggen rtsp streamer? So much for standards.

    A big "fuck you" to real audio from me.
  • Strictly speaking, QuickTime isn't "a codec" - it's a wrapper that can use any codec.

    And Apple shows no interest in encouraging its codec partners (Sorenson in particular) to port to Linux.

    Your second point is correct. And I think in order to really establish itself as a standard capable of beating Real, it would have to Open Source the QuickTime player, *and* as much of QuickTime's code as would be possible. Whether there's a viable business model for Apple there is another question, of course...
  • This version does seem to be a lot more stable, but the downside as mentioned before by a lot of people already is that it consumes up to one CPU of your system. Not really nice, but running it with an appropriate niceness seems to work fine and leaves the CPU available for other, more important things.

    The mp3-decoder though is a little bit noisy and doesn't support playlists, so just use xmms or your favorite dedicated mp3-player.
  • These are three apps that I simply won't touch these days, unless I absolutely have to. I used to think that they were all great, but really they're just sucky token gestures...

    1) RealPlayer. Anything that performs this badly (compared to the Windows version on the same hardware), looks this ugly and is this idiosyncratic isn't worth having. Real don't care about Linux.

    2) Acrobat Reader. Stunningly slow. It runs barely acceptably at home in Linux, but on the multi-user Solaris box at Uni it's terrible. Adobe don't care about Linux. Thank God ghostscript does pdf now, gv is so much nicer in every way.

    3) StarOffice. If I wanted a stupid program like MSOffice, I'd use MSOffice. Didn't they see all of MSOffice's flaws when they were copying it? And that Windows-esque flavour in one big X window makes me want to wretch. (While I'm at it, modal dialog boxes are pure evil. No well designed GUI should need modal dialog boxes.) And don't get started on the speed!

    My conclusion: There are a lot of companies out there who couldn't care less about Linux or its philosophy, or why it works. They merely see a userbase to suck. The result is "token-gesture" software, which is just a crappy port of their Windows software. Only enough effort is put into it to get it to compile.

    The saddest thing is that as Linux grows, there's only going to be more of these kinds of things... Especially as they continue to screw us over with non-free software...

  • Especially since the Linux-versions of the programs you have mentioned runs slower than the Windows-versions.

    Not a good point, if you are doing a Linux vs. Windows-discussion. And definitely not a good thing for people that are new to Linux.

  • Having proprietary software like these for Linux doesn't hurt us. We have the freedom to choose not to use them. Use what you want :-)

    There's something good about having StarOffice, though. Now I can open all the countless Word-docs that people send me. As they are clients, I can't just direct them to /dev/null and it's a waste of time to ask them to resend them as text.

    And maybe, maybe StarOffice can be the first step to free the document formats? Microsoft won't do it but Sun may.

  • Dammit, Real- just give us the ability to zoom video!

    There's that magnifying-glass icon. It activates a small menu, and you can double the image size. For some reason I associated it with "search" all this time. On Windows, I just right-clicked to bring up the menu, blissfully ignorant of the magnifying glass. I was lost when right-clicking didn't work in Linux.

    --

  • The May 17 version worked on RH 5.2, this one
    fails dependencies...

    $ root rpm -e G2player-6.0-0.99051701
    $ root rpm -i G2player-6.0-0.99092901*
    failed dependencies: libNoVersion.so.1 is needed by G2player-6.0-0.99092901


  • I tried the rvplayer 5, I tried 2 different versions of the G2 player when they came out, and I tried this one. Every single one has just flashed up an initial window and then core dumped. This one is a major improvement over the others, because it actually plays one note of the initial tune before it core dumps.
  • I'm pretty sure we all want this. A decent Real Audio player for Linux. Here's what we do:
    No matter how unstable this one is, we download it anyway. Real Audio sees the demand and gets cracking on the beta. The beta is better than the alpha, and we all download it. All of the sudden, Real Networks has a damn good reason to release another version. They have momentum! I'm going to get it at work and at home and download it directly to /dev/null.
  • Having proprietary software like these for Linux doesn't hurt us.

    Yeah, it does. It hurts in the same way that non-free documentation does, like ORA's books do. To divert to that topic, free software needs free manuals [gnu.org]. ORA's books make people think "Why bother writing a manual; ORA already have a good book for this software." In the same way, non-free software available makes people think "Why bother writing stuff; just get it from real.com". This is the whole fundamental point behind gnu and the fsf.

    To summarise that, what else should I use to play my realmedia in Linux? "Use what you want" doesn't work when the standards are closed or obfuscated like real. pdf is much better in this respect and staroffice/msoffice are slightly better. The only real solution, though, is free software, plain and simple. While there is non-free software there will be these kinds of problems. (Sorry if I sound like a free software nazi, but this is just how I feel - I know that a world of only free software is pretty utopian.)

    StarOffice does have a small place, though, where you mention converting stuff (and I understand the rock and hard place you're stuck between). However, I think mswordview, and/or microsoft's own free (beer) office viewers would be a better solution here (assuming you don't need to make msword docs).
  • By sissies, you mean guys like Linus Torvalds?
  • Or we could rally the community together to get specs/licenses from Real, and then develop a completely free, portable (ie. to Windows, too), more stable, easier to use, more featured (eg. save to file) alternative to RealPlayer.

    Perhaps THEN Real might have a reason to improve their stuff. But while there is no alternative to RealPlayer, Real may as well be Microsoft - no competition = no innovation.

    The best part about this would be that it wouldn't matter if Real got their act together - we wouldn't need them anymore, as we'd have a superior product (and free to boot)... Game over.
  • Okay, this is strange. At home I have a
    RedHat 6.0 system. Downloaded the new player,
    and it worked just fine; streaming audio from
    the 'net.

    Then I get to work this morning, where I also
    have a RedHat 6.0 system. Download the new
    player, but it just flashes up the initial
    screen then core dumps.

    I've never gotten it to work here, even the
    older version. I cannot seem to get the proxy
    working to get around our firewall, even though
    I manually configure the proxy information.
    Also, when I try to start it up in standalone,
    it complains that it cannot find my audio
    device. Any way to tell it explicitly where
    to find it?

    Thanks,
    Mike
  • It's actually not nearly as bad as you think. Real uses Linux almost exclusively for their own media and file servers (www.real.com uses ROXEN, play.rbn.com/go.rbn.com is Apache)

    The alpha/beta player truly is a new build. Go to help->about and look at the build numbers. The latest (released) build is 6.0.4.433, which was build on 092899.


    I'd say kudos to RN for building (and using) great Linux server tools. Perhaps if they get some positive feedback (and excitment about a better product), we can get a really great G2 player for linux.
  • that you guys are.
    using top. realplayer says 0.1 cpu and 11.0 mem
    and varies between 78 and 90% idle.


    What I want to know is how to set this up with Navigator. I added the mime type and Realplayer opens when I click on a link, but it dosn't load the file.
  • Remember when RealPlayer was just realplayer? Nowadays on RP, quicktime, winamp, etc, they decided to bloat it with minibrowser windows, CONSTANT upgrade nags, constant nags for your email address, links to sports/entertainment websites, etc. argh. How about just the bare essentials?
  • I tried to play the SWE1 Quicktime trailer using the latest XAnim and it said it couldn't play that file b/c it couldn't recognize the codec.

    "Microsoft is the epitome of innovation and product quality."

  • Is esd running on the box you tried it on this morning? I think there are still issues with esd (installed by default with redhat 6.0). If it's NOT running and it still bombs, I have no idea ;)
  • Mine is

    esddsp realplay %s

    yours might be

    realplay %s
  • I have posted a method to get it working in Slack 4 quite a while ago. Here it is [deja.com]. It worked with the original version, and it works with the new one. Enjoy.
  • Well the sound synchronization seems to work better where it didn't work at all previously. Sound synchronization is the bread and butter of bedroom hackers, not MSEEs staffed by a multimedia company.

    Unfortunately, their RealProducer offering requires you to encode an audio track. All of this looks like a testing of the waters they tried in 1998 and since gave up on. The normal thing to do is all the video on a Win NT box and use Linux to serve it on the web, but my computer won't run Win NT long enough to encode a movie so I ended up requiring Linux to do all the production. Life sucks and then you die.
  • Oops, I should have read the original post. No, it won't work with libc5 only.
  • I was one of the people who first started complaining that they update it yesterday. My experiences are that it is much better then the previous version, with the exception of the CPU usage. I have found that on older encoded clips, there is the problem. On newer G2 stuff, there still is high CPU, but not 100%. It is starting to look like xanime. It's not open source (A very bad things) but it can handle several sound formats and a few other things xanime can't. If I already have Realplayer open, why waste time & mem opening another program.

    About the CPU problem. I responded to the guy about my experiences and he very quickly got back. He seemed surprised and eager to fix the problem. I think if we keep sending bug reports to these people (even if they are known bugs) then they will fix the package in a more timely manner.

  • YES.

    There are more file formats supported with the G2 version than the old Rplayer 5.0. I was able tio visit more web sites with the last Alpha verison. THe quality was a bit better (IMHO) too, but I did not do any benchmarks. Video still has a way to go, but that will come when bandwidth increases.

  • Wow, this is amazing. I just tried playing a
    local file, and here's the error I get:

    "General error. An error occurred."

    Boy, talk about your precise error descriptions
    and helpful text. This is worse than the
    Apple error boxes with only the "OK" button.

    Argh.
  • Actually, Real is working with BeOS to make a good version for the BeOS...so, hey, don't feel bad for too long.
  • Maybe in a year or two there will be a beta; this thing's still flaky.

    Actually, I believe the word was that a beta would be released by the end of the year.

    -Brent
    --
  • I downloaded G2 latst night, and so far from what i've seen, this version is ok. Nothing good, but nothing bad about it either. At least nothing that really turned me off anyway. I did find an annoying bug though. Whenever I tried to veiw a stream that sends different feeds back to back (such as when some sites send you a "commercial" first), my copy of G2 segfaulted when it tried to shift from one feed to the next.

    It's sad to live in a world where knowing how to
  • The CPU usage is probably caused by a busy wait they're using to achieve synchronization. This is something you do when you first start multimedia programming but get over. Surely people who get paid to do this would develop a better way.

  • Re:Real Player in Slackware (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Simple, do what I do to use major libc5 programs in Debian 2.1 without having to install the libs: Put all the libraries you can ever need in /oldlib and then LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/oldlib ./prog It may not be the best overall way, but it works for me Maybe with wanting to run libc6 you'd need the main libc6 libs installed in the original places also.
  • AAMOF, they have added features, like it can now blow up the movie to 2x2 (still no DGA! :-( ), and it's slightly more stable. (It used to segfault on a bunch of southparks I had lying around).
  • This is the one feature I was missing from the previous release, and I'm glad they included it. Now I can watch my South Park episodes!
  • This "software" is useless on my redhat 6.0 system. It starts running, displays it's window, makes a bell tone, then segfaults.

  • If you are getting that much cpu usage, maybe you need more memory.
  • If what you want to hear is a real audio stream, you need a real audio player.
  • the about window shows its version 6.0.4.433 (beta) so i guess they are out of the alpha phase....
  • Never Mind Quicktime's streaming server - there's been an open source streaming audio solution on linux for 2 years... Icecast is the server of choice now.
  • I gagged when I saw a the pretty orange line on
    xosview when running RealPlayer.

    WORKAROUND:

    Start it up, watch the pretty orange line,
    Press pause, wait for the stream to stop.
    Press pause again.
    Now only 30 % usage (on my ikky P133)

    Comment: At least RealPlayer can get through firewalls, XMMS can't (Unless I'm missing something)

    I live in Radio hell behind a firewall so RealPlayer is a BIG help. (Gotta drown out my co-workers bitching somehow)
  • We implemented the latest Real Audio server and encoder under linux (tested NT, random crashes, figured we could automate restarts a lot easier under linux). Purchased 100 stream license, got the box edition mailed, whole nine yards. The install sucked. Couldn't even get it to work without calling their tech support and getting someone to walk us through some manual script edits, just to get the server and encoder to even start (the tech knew exactly what was wrong as soon as I described the problem, knew exactly what to change, why not have just corrected the distribution?) Anyway, we get the server up and running, encoding is going fine, setup a windows client to listen to the live streams we were testing, and everything seemed to check out fine. So we install the box onsite at a local university, get their school radio feed into it, everything looks good and we leave. 30 mins back at the office and the calls start, its not working. Get into the box, the server is still running just fine, the encoder is still running just fine, but the server has just randomly decided to quit listening to the encoder. If one of the processes had died we could have just wrote a little watch dog script to restart it, but the damn processes are still running. So we restart everything, and the streams start playing again. 20mins to 1hr later, more calls. Its down again. Over the next two weeks we try everything under the sun to figure out what is wrong, including numerous emails and calls to Real's tech dept. They let it leak that they know about the problem, and that we need to move to beta products to get around it. I don't want to implement beta products, they've got to beta for a reason, and I'm sick of chasing after their bugs. If you sell a gold version commercial product for a platform, and you charge out the ass for it, it should work (and not randomly require manual restarts...as many as 20 per day). If I had it to do all over again, I would implement netshow on an NT server. And I hate NT with a passion, but I've seen it work at another client location flawlessly without intervention, and it doesn't have a pricing structure based on streams. Sometimes, the linux solution must be better because it is more stable attitude just doesn't hold up. More pressure needs to be put on commercial companies selling linux solutions to stand behind their products. We spent so much time trouble shooting the freakin RA linux server, we couldn't get our money back from the license sales, nor an acceptable solution from them. As it stands, we have had to set a cron job to kill the server, kill the encoder, then start both back up every hour. This keeps knocking people off, but at least they can get a stream for a little while some of the time. Real Networks is WORTHLESS. If you have to implement a live encoding audio streaming server, go with netshow under NT. 2cents
  • A buddy of mine reports this:

    A eeeeyew! bad, bad, bad! On the machine here at work, I now have the
    problem I experienced at home... where moving the mouse totally dorks
    the audio. Additionally, without moving the mouse or anything else--
    the audio studders and skips dramatically.

    The previous version I had here G2player-6.0-0.99051701 didn't do either
    of these nasties... Gotta get that one back!


  • I'd love to get a version of G2 for Solaris, and also IRIX too. However, all they've had to offer is just realplayer v5. How long has the G2 format been out now?

    I've posted to Real's site a few times asking for information as to when they're going to release a version for these platforms. Nothing. No reply. Nada.

    Now it's been 6+ months since we had this Linux 'alpha' version of G2 - which, I might add, the only way you can find it on Real's site is if you know the exact URL to it. At least, I've not been able to find it any other way.

    I find it really really hard to believe that it's possible to have a G2 encoder/server out for multiple platforms, but no decoder/player out, or at least have a player so far back in alpha it's not even funny.

    Oh - and get this. The encoders will let you encode G2 for free. If you want to encode for v5, you gotta pay. This, of course, means that you now have more people out there producing streams in G2 format - meaning almost all the UNIX users are just plain screwed.

    And yes, this has become a business case where I work too.
  • You claim that Quicktime is better but can
    you answer these questions?

    1- Does it play the shows on this page [bayoubeat.com].

    2-Does Quicktime run on Linux?

    If you can't have a yes for both of these questions the next word that comes to mind
    is moron.
  • Don't blame Linux, it's Real's fault, the linux box was performing flawlessly.

    I would rather use icecast or the winamp casting.
  • Or do they? I would use QuickTime readily, but, honestly, how many broadcast media sites offer things in quicktime? They too are interested in the most clients being able to get their info, and if they're limited to one format, it's probably going to be Real's format.

    You're missing my point. Go over to Saga Begins [sagabegins.com] (Weird Al's site) and watch his movies in both RealPlayer and Quicktime 4. Quicktime 4 is way ahead of Real in quality streaming.

    honestly, how many broadcast media sites offer things in quicktime?

    Lots, because Apple's wants to make money off the client, but the server is free, as opposed to Real who gives away the basic client and makes money off the server. If I want to set up a streaming server on my web site, I'd go with Quicktime 4 because the server is free and I'd have one less license to deal with.

    Apple needs to release the codec. Or at a player's API. Something that will allow others to create players. I would suggest making it a limited 'Play back only' thing, and have the True Apple QuickTime Player be the Damn Cool one that can save streams, and edit them, etc. etc.

    Apple doesn't need to release the code for the codec or the player to make Quicktime successful. What they have to do is make a decent one for all platforms and get rid of the nagware message. Like you said, they should have a playback only version (totally free) and one that will let you edit media.
  • I don't want to implement beta products

    Don't you hate it when people say ``implement'' when they mean ``deploy''?

    I sure do.

  • Mine says it's a BETA, why is it still referred to as a ALPHA, also mine has the ability to change the screen size from normal to double.. (no full screen yet like in windows) Also the CPU rate is a little high, but it works great.

    Debian 2.1 (Slink)
    P233MMX classic
    Voodoo3 2000
    128M ram

  • RealAudio versus Shoutcast/Icecast? (Score:3)

    by Jamie Zawinski ( 775 ) <jwz@jwz.org> on Thursday September 30, 1999 @10:27AM (#1649506) Homepage
    Is there a comparison of the various merits of these methods of audio broadcasting? From what I've seen, it seems to me that streaming-MP3 audio is higher quality than RealAudio. But RealAudio has a feature that I haven't seen in an MP3 broadcast, which is the ability to random-access the stream.

    For example, many radio stations (e.g., NPR [npr.org]) are archiving their broadcasts on the web; this is a situation where ``play the file from the beginning'' doesn't quite cut it. The fact that, with RealAudio, you can skip around in the stream, so that the archive file can be six hours long but you can still find the part you're interested in without listening for six hours straight (or downloading the whole thing to your local disk first) is incredibly important.

    As far as I've seen so far, you can't do this with MP3 streams: you can only listen from the beginning. Is that true?

    Is there any work being done to make random-access of MP3 streams possible?

  • Where did you find 6.0.4.433? The one I just downloaded (the RH RPM) gave me 6.0.4.238.

    The download page was confusing too -- when I filled out the form to download "RealPlayer G2", it took me to a page that said "only RealPlayer 5.0 is supported on this platform", and the file it gave me was named "rv50_redhat5xi386_rpm".

    But in fact, that file had 6.0.4.238 in it, which includes the "G2" logo at the bottom.

  • Gee, a "good" version, huh? Wish they'd do that for Linux. Also, I wish they'd dump whatever widget set they're using (looks like highly-customized Motif) and use Gtk+ (if they MUST do C++, use the Gtk-- bindings or SOMETHING)... I just think the RealPlayer/Linux GUI is ugly, and they could do a LOT better with a different widget set. And DGA support (for fullscreen playback) would be good too.
  • XMMS can get through an HTTP proxy. Go to Preferences->Audio I/O Plugins, then select the MPEG 1/2/3 Player plugin, and click the Configure button. One of those tabs (I can't remember offhand) has a proxy option field. Just fill in the address (host:port) of your proxy, and it should use it.
  • Why do we care about an upgrade of a particular port of a particular proprietary product? This isn't freshmeat after all.
  • Heh. Being able to answer Jamie Zawinski's question. Cool. :)

    Now, for my answer:

    The main problem is in determining the length (in time, not bytes) of the stream. A lot of the streams that are played over the Internet are encoded using a VBR (variable bitrate) encoder, so you have to check all the MPEG frame headers for their bitrates, do some magic, and get the actual running time of the stream (that kinda defeats the whole purpose of streaming, tho).

    If the stream is non-VBR, getting the first frame, getting the content length, and a little math yield the actual running time, and with a byteserving HTTPD on the server end, it shouldn't be a huge problem to do stream seeking with MP3s. It's just those darn VBR streams...

    Of course, the actual implementation of seeking MP3 streams over the internet (via Ice/ShoutCast) probably wouldn't be pretty. However, far as I can determine, it should work with constant bitrate streams. As long as they're not realtime streams (but afaik RealPlayer and its ilk can't do that either, for obvious reasons).
  • The MP3 in Real doesn't work through the firewall, only Real formats.

    For MP3 through a firewall, try MPG123:

    mpg123 -p

    I use it every day and it works great.
  • I'm not an expert in the field, but isn't MP3 one of those compression algorythms that it file-based, instead of block-based? (ie. The middle of a file refers back to the beginning, etc.)

    --------
    "I already have all the latest software."

  • Actuallt you can get this stuff (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    All except for the licenses. Go to there developer website and look around a bit. I know that there is an SDK for making application that are Real clients (ie: annoyingly cheap and useless multimedia programs). I was toying with the idea of working on a port, but I am just not motivated enough. tsk
  • There is still, unfortunately, a problem with RealPlayer G2. I've queried newsgroups about it. Written to real. Until the problem gets resolved, most people are still stuck with using RealAudio 5.0 for linux. The .bin package for Real, from their site, is NOT compatible with glibc-2.1.*. I am using glibc-2.1.2 on my box (Slackware 4.0, compiled glibc-2.1.2 on my own). After downloading G2 Alpha, the problem still exists:

    ./g2a1_linux22.bin: Symbol `_IO_stderr_' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking
    ./g2a1_linux22.bin: Symbol `_IO_stdin_' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking
    Segmentation fault

    Real is either using glibc-2.0 for their glibc, the glibc-2.1.2 distribution is not correct. I doubt it's glibc. So, the problem is: Why use glibc-2.0 for building the package, when 2.1.2 is the current release? Until then, users of glibc-2.1.2 won't be able to use the new version of RealPlayer.
  • for companies like Progressive Networks to compile their software for the alpha? Provided that their code doesn't have 64-bit issues (and there's an Irix 6.x version, so it probably doesn't) all that's necessary is building a cross-compiler or ftping the code to an alpha box and typing 'make'. I'm guessing there are at least as many linux/alpha users than solaris/x86 users (which they do support)... and probably a larger percentage of the linux/alpha users would use something like realplayer.
  • Oh really? Please explain exactally how "quicktime already whoops ass on RealPlayer"... I am interested in TECHNICAL details as to why you feel this way instead of your OPINION. My view is probably Greatly biast because I am a Developer for RealNetworks, but, I still think you should come up with technical details, side by side comparisons from reliable/respected sources to back up your statements. As far as why we have not rushed to market with a linux player, sorry but we are a business and while we do recoignize that we have many users in linux that would like to play RealContent, you also have to keep in mind that we are business and that we have to make wise business decisions. We release products first to windows, then to Mac, and then on to linux and other *nix distros since there are way more users in windows and Mac than using linux. Linux is a up and coming os, we definitly recoignize its power, hell, I use it 98% of the day in my average work day, but, as far as reaching the largest consumer/customer base, the order is windows/Mac/linux in that order. As Linux's popularity grows, we will be faster to market with players for that OS.
  • Real who gives away the basic client and makes money off the server.
    Incorrect, we offer a 25 stream version of the server for free for anyone who wants it. For every Product we charge for, there is a free version, and vice-versa.
  • Real is either using glibc-2.0 for their glibc, the glibc-2.1.2 distribution is not correct. I doubt it's glibc. So, the problem is: Why use glibc-2.0 for building the package, when 2.1.2 is the current release?

    Gee, maybe because of the large installed base of 2.0 users?

    There was a time when people believed that the version numbers of shared libraries meant something: you changed the major number when you had made a binary-incompatible change to the library, and changed the minor number when making backward-compatible changes. That's why ld.so works the way it does.

    Apparently the glibc developers don't care about this.

  • No. (That's the short answer)

    MP3, in simple terms of structure, is just a stream of MPEG frames. Each frame has its own information on the bitrate of the data contained in it. You can start playback at any point in the frame stream. That's why you can have "live" streams that are in MP3 format. (We've all listened to that guy from Canada with his scanner hooked to his computer, streaming cell phone calls... :)

    Even if you couldn't, you could just fetch the first frame (or 2 or 3) and then use that as the basis on which to seek. Besides, you'd have to fetch at least the first frame anyway, to determine the bitrate so you can do the calculation for running time. (Of course, this still depends on it being a constant-bitrate stream. VBR streams still won't work. You'd need some kind of metadata stored in a descriptor file of some kind, or something...)
  • Oh really? Please explain exactally how "quicktime already whoops ass on RealPlayer".

    It plays more formats, and appears to have much higher audio and video quality for the rate of compression.

    I am interested in TECHNICAL details as to why you feel this way instead of your OPINION. My view is probably Greatly biast because I am a Developer for RealNetworks,

    As I'm not a Quicktime developer, maybe you could tell me how Real is technically superior.

    am a Developer for RealNetworks, but, I still think you should come up with technical details, side by side comparisons from reliable/respected sources to back up your statements.

    Two words: Sorenson video.

    Okay, let me explain "whoops ass" a little better. I think Quicktime is leaps in bounds ahead of Real in technology, but that doesn't mean that Real is dead.

    For one thing, Real has a seperate playback-only client (I hate nagware). I don't like the interface on the Real players, but they are soooo much better than Quicktimes. Lastly, I can watch Real content on my Linux box (assuming it runs, of course).
  • I disagree that RealNetworks is worthless. Check out krbe.com and they have their station set up to encode their broadcast for G2 in linux. I listen to them almost 24/7 and get a nice constant, clear stream.

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