Movie Review: Princess Mononoke 172
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The Scenario
The setting is historical Japan in the Muromachi era (1392-1573), during the time when firearms were first beginning to appear in the country. A raging monster enters the up-to-then peaceful village of Ashitaka, a young warrior. It plows with towering hatred straight towards the village, aiming to destroy it and kill every human it can find; so strong is the hate in the creature that the very grass it runs across wilts away to brown mush. When Ashitaka defeats the demon, it finally speaks to the gathered humans with its dieing breath. It tells them that it was a great boar protector-god of a faraway forest who was overcome with anger at the destruction humans had caused in his forest. The boar curses Ashitaka in the form of a consuming disease in his arm. As its already-dead body crumbles away it utters a scathing curse on humanity.
Such is the intensity present throughout much of Mr. Hayao Miyazaki's latest full-length film, released in the U.S. as Princess Mononoke. There are really two parts to a proper review of the American release of this movie -- a review of the movie itself, and a review of the cultural adaptation and dubbing -- so I'll handle those separately.
A small note before I begin, I was privileged to see this movie because Austin has a small but thriving film community that brings film festivals to town occasionally. It was shown in a (mostly =) normal movie theater (The Paramount), and it was attended by Neil Gaiman (more on Neil Gaiman's relation to the movie in a moment). The movie won't be coming out for the public until early November, and there is more information on that below.
The Movie: Mononoke Hime
As many anime fans are aware, Mr. Miyazaki, and associated Studio Ghibli, are famous for creating films that contain excellent artistic talent, entertaining stories, and are just plain neat movies. You may know that team for such titles as My Neighbor Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Laputa (Castle in the Sky in the American release). All of those good qualities are present in this movie, but at about twice the normal strength for a Ghibli film. The artwork and animation of Mononoke Hime is breathtaking, the scenery is fabulous, the musical score is worthy of comparison with the contemporary greats, and the issue is close at hand: man and his continuing detrimental effect on nature. Only, in Mononoke Hime, the battle is a bit more tangible.
The story begins when a forest-protecting boar god intrudes on a peaceful village and imposes a curse on the young warrior Ashitaka. His fate is to leave the village and discover what has unquieted the boar god so and cure his curse if possible. His journey takes him across streams, through enchanted forests, and finally to "Iron Town" (as it is called in the American release). Here he witnesses the reason for the anger of the forest gods: a city setup across a lake from a forest whose residents aim to mine the iron from the hills in whatever way possible so that they might make ends meet. The story is even more complicated when Princess Mononoke herself appears, a human child raised by the forest wolves who is also out to eliminate the Iron Town.
This story is noticeably darker and more serious than most from Mr. Miyazaki. On the other hand, it is not without its light-hearted moments, and it comes across as very well balanced in that regard. If you took the kids to see My Neighbor Totoro and that's all you've seen of Mr. Miyazaki's works, you might want to consider seeing this one first without the kids. It was definitely written for an adult audience. It is also probably one of Miyazaki's longest single pieces: it weighs in at about 15 minutes past two hours.
The Dub: Princess Mononoke
Ok, when Neil Gaiman first came out before the movie and stated that he had done a "cultural adaptation", I groaned. I'm sure I heard a number of other anime fans groan too, because we are all quite familiar with said adaptations. They usually involve a butchering of the dialogue until it's not recognizable, replacing the good music with bad, and just generally tearing the show up to make it sell with American marketing.
If that's what you're expecting, you'll definitely be disappointed. It took a little bit of getting used to the English voice actors/actresses, but overall they are very good. Having seen the Japanese version a few times, I can say that the translation and "adaptation" is also very good. Mr. Gaiman said that his goal was to make an adaptation that made you feel like you were watching a movie produced in English, not a foreign film that's been dubbed; he succeeded quite nicely in that goal. The lipsyncing is very good, and the only real changes were a few extra bits and phrases thrown in near the beginning to try to insert a bit more historical background for a non-Japanese audience. Way to go, Neil! You just produced the first dub that I, a die-hard subtitled-anime fan, actually enjoyed and would recommend!
This goal was also helped by the all-star cast. While the voice acting talent of some of these folks hasn't been tested, their voices are well known, and they did a pretty good job. Billy-Bob Thornton as the monk is a really nice touch, and Lady Eboshi's British-accent-wielding voice actress gives her a very aristocratic touch (not that Brits are inherently aristocratic, but she does come across as very refined and regal among the more normal voices of Iron Town).
There was a nifty Q&A session after the showing with Neil Gaiman, and I think it's a bit out of scope to post all of that with this review, but I'll give two little tidbits that stand out in my mind.
The first one is the story of Mr. Gaiman meeting Mr. Miyazaki. There's an Asian restaurant Neil Gaiman frequents, and the daughter of the owner is a really big Miyazaki fan. So of course she asked Neil to get something autographed. He said he would do it, but that he's really a very shy person, and the idea of meeting this man who many consider to be a minor deity of animated film making was just a bit shaking. To make a long story short, he did indeed meet him for a few moments at a dinner, and he came away with a signed CD, a signed art book with a little Totoro sketch, and a hug from Mr. Miyazaki. Deal!
The other one is talking about how he got involved in the production. There is more info about that on the web site for the movie, but here's the part they didn't include. Mr. Gaiman said he didn't want to be involved in this. He went to see a subtitled version at Miramax, though, and came away feeling like he'd seen something phenomenal. The next thought that went through his head was, "What's the next guy they try to hire going to do with this show?" That was what decided him. His statement on the matter was (paraphrased), the next guy who works on this may just look at it as a job, without the respect it deserves and really f*ck it up; but at least I'll f*ck it up with respect! (censored for the innocent, and for the web policing packages ;-)
What's Bad?
I can't think of a whole lot that detracts from this movie. There are a few points that may turn you off from it though: its long length; the number of things you still won't understand about Japanese culture from the added dialogue (unless you already know); keeping track of the crazy procession of things that happens towards the end; and of course, despite the quality of the dub, I'm still a die-hard subtitled fan and a sometimes student of the Japanese language, and I like to hear the Japanese ^_^;
What's Good?
What's not good? ;-) The quality of the animation is excellent, the music is good, the plot is neat. You get to feel close to all of the characters, not just "the good guys". In fact, there aren't really any "good guys and bad guys" in this movie like in so many movies. There are several sides to a conflict, and every side has humane and cruel qualities, and every side has a valid argument. Exemplary of this is the fact that Lady Eboshi, while she appears at first to be the "bad guy" of the story, is just trying to make a life too -- and to help make a new life for an entire group of women from a local brothel, and a group of lepers, and so on. She turns out to be their humane savior, even though she encourages the destroying of the forest.
Watching this movie leaves you with a ponderous feeling. I don't want to spoil the ending for you, but I will say that they did not cheese the heck out, and that is one of the most endearing qualities of it.
So What's In It For Me?
An easy glance into some aspects of Japanese culture; a look at some of the latest in state of the art animation (not a lot of computer rendering! =); and of course, a good time. If you're an anime fan, seeing it in good ol' analog on the big screen is a real treat! While much of the mythology of the movie was created by Mr. Miyazaki himself, it does have a very Japanese feel to it, and many of the history tidbits are fairly accurate.
Showing information
The movie will be showing at the "20 major markets" at first. You can find more info on the web page about the movie. The web site, while a bit flashy for my tastes, is actually kinda neat. It has a pure HTML version, but the interface is a Shockwave-esque Myst-like environment that includes lots of information snippets, Quicktime movies of scenes, etc. On the top of the front page is a link to the "20 major markets" and when it will be showing at each. They start in late October (29th in New York City) and go from there.
The success of this small run will be the determining factor if they show it nationally, and in fact if they bring any more things like Mononoke Hime to the U.S. If you like this kind of film, please go see it and vote with your dollars! Tell your friends too! =)
I apologize for the length of this review, but it's such a neat movie and there's so much that could be written about it. If you have doubts, give it a shot, you might like it! If you are a Miyazaki fan already, the dub won't disappoint you!
A final note, if you can read Japanese or have translation software, there is also a Japanese Mononoke Hime site at the Ghibli web site; and if you want to find more about anime in general, try The Anime Web Turnpike.
Straight to video? (Score:1)
Didn't rock *my* world... (Score:1)
Nice artwork, though.
Re:Why do we care? (Score:1)
fight club is not a good movie, in fact it was an excellent movie.
What really annoys me though, are people who dismiss anime movies as silly or juvenile. Some are, but then c'mon.. so are a lot of live action movies (you know you've seen them).
When the good artist/innovators like Miyazaki set down to do a movie or a manga, they create thought provoking artistic works that deserve the proper amount of merit. A big fan of miyazaki myself (mainly through Nausicaa), i've been waiting a long time for this one to come to the US. The fact that Gaiman, one of my favourite authors, did the translation is yet another reason to go see it.
Are we not nerds? (Score:1)
There are some that believe that if you do not appreciate anime, then you are not a proper nerd.
I would go a step further and say that if you do not appreciate anime, then you are not a proper human being.
Besides, good anime comes out, in the U.S. at least, rarely enough that it doesn't really take up that much bandwidth on /. to cover it.
Re:Straight to video? (Score:1)
Perfect Blue (Score:2)
Check out this other review... (Score:2)
They reviewed the original [stomptokyo.com] and dubbed [stomptokyo.com] versions. (So you can see what you're missing.)
The reviews are heartfelt but also quite funny.
"Knowledge = Power = Energy = Mass"
20 major markets? or 1000 screens? (Score:1)
I really hope it does well, though, or if not comes to sale on vidio/dvd quickly. The trip for me and my friends from Las Vegas to Pheonix (taking 10 hours including the movie) just isn't worth it.
Re:Are we not nerds? (Score:2)
Slashdot is nice because it's a very specific forum for us to talk about computers and OSes (read: Linux). If we bog it down with less salient issues, it will become garbage.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
A little computer animation in it at least. (Score:1)
I saw this book on CGI, and they showed the
"worms" on Ahitaka's arm and how they were done.
They did some kind of other effect I can't
remember the name of to flatten it out and make
it look like it was had drawn.
Thea early versions looke WAY snakey.
I just hope when it comes out on DVD,
that they don't do any adding to the japanese sub.
If I'm doing the sub thing, I don't need the hints.
Re:Straight to video? (Score:1)
For those of you who have never seen ..... (Score:1)
My advice is "See it before you neglect!!!!!"
Neil's credits (Score:2)
This is an unfortunate trend. Sandman is Gaiman's most acclaimed literary credit, but we sort of trip over the idea of calling it "Literature". Sure, there are words, but there are... GASP... PICTURES! It's a COMIC BOOK!
Books like Sandman will continue to challenge the assumption that works with storyboard-style pictures are not Literature. This is a Good Thing(tm).
Or, to paraphrase Gaiman from a talk he gave at MIT: If it's a picture we call it art, and it's respected. If it's a book with words, it's literature and it's respected. If it's a book with words and pictures, it's crap for kids.
Original vs. Disney (Score:2)
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Re:Why do we care? (Score:2)
Yeah, that's one of the main reasons I like anime so much, along with a lot of other people -- it's generally aimed at a mature audience, not the Saturday morning cartoonies. Animated movies as a medium really haven't see much in the way of serious movies here in the U.S.
One other thing of note:
The fact that Gaiman, one of my favourite authors, did the translation is yet another reason to go see it.
Hmm... I guess one thing that I didn't really say very explicitly is that Neil Gaiman only did the dialogue adaptation. The other credit listed for the translation/adaptation (Jack Fletcher) is apparently the one who did most of the raw translation work. He translated the bulk of the text pretty literally, and then that was picked up by Neil Gaiman and made more natural sounding and such. Sorry for the ambiguity.
Movie site to refer to: (Score:2)
The site is dedicated to movie industry news and rumours, and the search engine should point you to past rumblings about Mononoke and anything else at all..
Don't forget to check out the buzz on Pitch Black.
Re:Are we not nerds? (Score:2)
Let's just look at the trend here:
See http://slashdot.org/search.pl?topic=movi es [slashdot.org] for a lot more examples of non-technical news. Oh yeah, this is just a tech news site. This is a site dedicated to a particular set of cross-cultural interests held by the new technical sub-culture (oooh! I just made that up
If what you want is to have a site that caters to your specific tech bent, then exclude the movie info (that's under preferences [slashdot.org]). Slashdot is Slashdot. If you see it here, that's Slashdot content. What you think is Slashdot "style" is rather beside the point.
I come to bury AICN (Score:1)
They too suffer from the "First Post!" syndrome, and the posters mostly come across as 12 year old boys with ADD and no formal logic skills.
That aside, one of their writers, "Moriarity," does write some good stuff.
Mostly, though, it's pointless, spoiler-filled rumour mongering and fan-boy rants.
Visit at peril to you sanity
Pope
Because a lot of us Nerds are into Anime! (Score:2)
Your silly japanese cartoon comment is very telling that you haven't a clue. The Japanese animation that I've seen and have is geared towards the adult viewer, many with adult situations, violence, and language that would easily rate an R or even X rating. Most all have an excellent story line, unless butchered during the English translation process.
In contrast, the vast majority of American cartoons are geared towards children, and are not worth seeing for those not in a family way. This does some to be improving, Iron Giant was a pleasent surprise!
Most of my collection is on Laser Disk, though I've started getting DVD titles now that I've a Thinkpad with DVD support.
One of the Tenchi Muyo specials would be especially popular for this group - it's a major spoof on Microsoft, complete with Gates and his attempts to monopolize the Japanese Computer market.
Ruroni Kenshin (Score:1)
I like Miyazaki, but I have a big fucking bone to pick with Ruroni, in that the author set it in the Meiji period, and then proceeds to stomp ALL OVER historical fact. If all the major characters were fictional, then it wouldn't bother me so much, but when he starts pulling in people like Saito Hajime (I mean, really, after reading/seeing Ruroni Kenshin, what impression would most people have of Saito? How many of them know what sort of person he really was?), then it turns me right off.
I mean, f'chrissakes, the guy's descendants are still around - how do you think they feel about it?
Re: (Score:1)
Slashdot Anime Interest Poll (Score:2)
[ ] I want to marry Belldandy!
[ ] Every other paycheck covers anime goodies!
[ ] I watch a lot of anime.
[ ] Some of it is all right.
[ ] Not really interested, thanks.
[ ] Isn't that all just pr0n and ninjas?
[ ] What's anime?
[ ] Foo!
Hey Rob! Let's have a real poll on this!
Re:Neil's credits (Score:1)
It gets much better than that.
It is ultimately a _Japanese_ love story. (Score:1)
This man is the greatest in Anime. (Score:3)
This is the man who created my all time favorite Anime, Kaze no Tani no Nausicaä (Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind). Not only is this a full length story (weighing in at right about 2 hours...I hate 45 minute 'movies' with no time for a real plot) but the depth, the characters, and the writing are all abosolutely amazing.
It's strange, but very few people in the US seem to be familiar with Nausicaa, despite the fact that I'm told it almost always places in the top 5 of every Japanese poll about the greatest Anime ever. I suppose part of the reason may be that no Enlglish dub was ever made (Technically, there was an English dub, it was called Warriors of the Wind. However, I refuse to count it, because it was so horribly chopped, mangled, and destroyed, it's not even worth watching. They cut out almost half an hour in the dubbing and editing, essentially everything that was important for the plot, leaving you with a few disjointed action scenes.)
If you'd like more information on Hayao Miyazaki and his Animes and Mangas, check out some of the following URLs:
[nausicaa.net]
http://www.nausicaa.net/
[princess-mononoke.com]
http://www.princess-mononoke.com/
[ntv.co.jp]
http://www.ntv.co.jp/ghibli/
Find out for yourself why the old stigma 'cartoons are for kids' only goes in the US. This will show you how amazing an indepth a 'cartoon' can be.
Re:Slashdot Anime Interest Poll (Score:1)
Re:Because a lot of us Nerds are into Anime! (Score:2)
For those who are interested, see "Pretty Sami: The Magical Girl, episode 2".
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Re:20 major markets? or 1000 screens? (Score:2)
I don't suppose they want to repeat a gamble like that, regardless of Mr. Gaiman's passion.
I might make the round trip to SF to go see it. . . (only 8 hours including the movie)
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
A good dub of anime!? shock! (Score:3)
Some little points I thought I'd share with the rest:
*) The movie came out in Japan 2 years ago.
*) Ashitaka comes from a race known as the 'ainu' (I think it was) who (in real history) died out somewhere between the 5th and 10th centuary or something. Originally, "shogun" used to be short for something that meant something like "army leader and suppresor of the Ainu". (I don't have some of my history books around, so I'm just doing it from memory)
*) "mononoke" means something like a "vengeful ghost/spirit" - doesn't translate very well. "hime" is a name suffix which normally translates as 'princess', though in some periods it can be a bit more like 'lady'.
*) The "wolves" are "mountain dogs" in the original
*) In Japan, firearms were removed from the whole country by the government in the early 17th centuary. They were originally introduced by Portugease missionaries, who offered them to local lords in exchange for the lord and people going christian.
*) I like this film a lot, though that doesn't mean it'll be like that for everyone.
News for Everyone? (somewhat OT) (Score:2)
A couple of my friends have been talking about whether it would be possible to do a general alt-culture website based on the Slash code, and the consensus has been that, to be worthwhile, it would have to be heavily configurable, with multiple department editors maintaining different areas of interest.
Well...the arrival of the YRO, Apache, and BSD sections have gotten me wondering...could Slashdot broaden that way itself?
At the moment, I suspect that most users don't exclude any subjects--would making
Re:News for Everyone? (somewhat OT) (Score:1)
animetic nonchalance (Score:1)
But personal opinions aside, it sounds like a good movie. I *do* sometimes enjoy reviews that don't pertain to the latest processor or OS, and it seems to me like this is more interesting than the M$ got hacked article. I got into some books just because I saw it on slashdot (The Diamond Age comes to mind) and I appreciate that fact. It would suck if slashdot turned all pseudo-techy ( zd.. net..) but once in awhile reviews are ok. I think this is the first time I saw an anime review here anyways. Reviews aren't necessarily a Bad Thing(TM) IMO.
Re:The thing that bothers me about this... (Score:2)
Thank you also for taking the time to visit Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator [uiuc.edu] and asking it to generate three paragraphs in my honor.
Cute.
(Yes, I've had this nick for a few weeks now. Only because my regular one was already taken.)
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Other (better IMHO) Miyazaki movies (Score:1)
Other films by Miyazaki, which I think are better, are "Tenkuu no Shiro no Laputa" (the rough translation is "The sky castle laputa") and "Kaze no Tani no Naussica" ("Naussica of/in the valley of wind"). I'm not a big anime fan, but I think these films stand out much more than Mononoke Hime in terms of plot, setting, character development, and technical merit.
Re:20 major markets? or 1000 screens? (Score:1)
Only the the biggest star (or franchise) driven movies get enough initial hype to open wide and make money. Plus, non-Disney animation is a tough sell. Look at what happened to Iron Giant (great movie, IMHO.) IG was gone from the theatres before good word-of-mouth had a chance to circulate.
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anime ga daisuke desu! (Score:1)
Absolutely! It's too bad that the majority of 'anime' that reaches the US mainstream media is crap. Ask any anime fan about what movies and books they prefer. There are much much better shows than Sailor Moon et.al. Would you decide that Western television is stupid if the only shows you could get were Power Rangers and Teletubbies? Certainly.
All of the Ghibli movies I've seen are totally excellent. Slashdot nerds might particularly like Wings of Honneamise.
Re:Original vs. Disney (Score:1)
Re:Straight to video? (Score:1)
P.S. Anyone wanna tag along? I got an extra seat in the car.
anime dub probs (Score:1)
The Japanese voice-overs generally have a *LOT* of expression, with over-the-top 'wacky' characters contrasted with more even-keeled 'cool' characters.
American attempts at dubbing grossly downplay the 'over-the-top' aspect for the 'cool' approach, giving all characters a more similar (lack of) affect, and deadening the sudden leaps and dips of emotive expression which are a HUGE part of the charm and magic that make anime appealing for so many.
The two girls in 'Totoro' are a good example of this.
A lot of American voices (especially the 'big name' ones) seem afraid to speak in anything other than a cool, high-status style. To do it right, they need to have more fun and take more risks. Shout, scream, cry, whimper, grovel, shriek, whatever.
Also, most Big Name Hollywood Act/ors/resses genuinely suck at vo's. To their credit, it is also probably more largely due to an utter lack of intelligent/thoughtful direction than to their own faults.
But I think the big name actors generally feel afraid to 'tarnish their image' by giving a voice-only part their all.
The latest wave of Disney flicks suffer horribly from this. All the characters (the few, that is, that aren't played by Robin Williams) sound like bored Beverly Hills brats.
Bottom line: I'd WAY rather hear an enthusiastic and talented unknown than a Name who's unskilled and/or uninterested. Never happen here, tho', 'cause film industry investors are attracted only to film with Names in them. There's no interest in creating New Names.
Oh well! Fsck 'em!
Re:If you didn't like Princess Mononoke, (Score:1)
Re:Not For Young Children (Score:1)
different pacing and style. why is that a bad thing? must all of our movies be cookie-cutter fashioned?
EX Magazine review (Score:1)
emufreak
www.kontek.net/pp
About Nausicaa (Score:1)
another bit about voice acting (Score:1)
What are the modern equivalents?
What modern cartoon character voices are difficult to imitate, but garner immediate recognition when done successfully?
The Simpsons? - Definately
Ren and Stimpy - Yes, and my personal faves (jon k'falusi versions ONLY)
Freaky and the Bean - dunno, never seen it
The Teletubbies - don't ask, just shoot on sight
?
The clan of Ashitaka... (Score:1)
The people that Ashitaka comes from are the...Emishi! Yes, the same Emishi that Yamato Takeru of Kojiki myth sets out to vanquish. In the Kojiki (Collection of Ancient Things), the Emishi are depicted as a thouroughly nasty bunch who are uncivilized, but this was probably because they lost against the Yamato clan (who ended up uniting Japan).
Hopefully, Anime will become more mainstream... (Score:1)
I can't wait til this happens, as so many really good Animes get 'stuck' in Japan, and they're only available if you can speak Japanese, read Kanji, or know where to find a good Fan-subber.
Anyways, everybody should see Mononoke Hime - you'll love it. (It was the best selling movie in Japan ever, until Titanic crossed the Pacific) And check out some Anime - you can get it at local stores like Suncoast, or online at www.animenation.com [animenation.com], which has really great prices! I'd suggest getting 'The Slayers' if you're a fantasy fan, it's hilarous, I guarantee you'll love it, or Rob promises to give you a full refund!
Mina Inerz (a.k.a Lina Inverse) - visit my webpage for great Anime Wallpapers!
Mina Inerz [N. Reinking]
Automated flame generator (Score:1)
Re:Kiki's Delivery Service (Score:1)
whatever.
Re:Automated flame generator (Score:1)
Some further clarification, back on topic (Score:1)
1) the Ainu are an aboriginal race in Japan. There are still Ainu cultural centers for them in Japan. Race wise the most recent scholorship thinks of the Ainu and Japanese as basically the same race with different cultures. Ancient Japanese are divided up between Yayoi and Jomon. They are named after different ways of patterning pottery. Yayoi overcame Jomon. Around 200 A.D. the Yamato court started to do the big push off of Kyushu (one of the 4 main Islands of Japan) and spread into the Kanto plain (the area around Tokyo). There the Yamato and the Ainu met and struggled for land/water/game rights. Overtime the Yamato began to refer to the Ainu as Emishi and also called anyone who wasn't keen on a big central government Emishi (barbarian). By 805 the Yamato had pacified the Emishi and by 950-1000 AD the Ainu and Emishi were pretty much totally absorbed into Japanese culture. This is important because if it wasn't for the wars against the Emishi and the proof that the Yamato Court's conscription system basically sucked we would not have had the development of the military houses that by 1100AD had become the Samurai.
2) The Dutch can also be implicated in arms trade with the Japanese, but for less "holy" reasons (unless you venerate gold...) There are some fascinating tales of the struggles of the Christian Samurai.
3) Does anyone else find it funny that one of the lead characters is named after a court cap? Eboshi means court cap (one of those funny caps that look anything like a sailors cap to something the coneheads would wear.) It would be like refering to a character in one of our films as Mr. Baseball Cap! Well, perhaps Costner could get away with this one.
4) The Japanese have come a long way and are now avid Linux users. (See, back to tech news!)
High Percentage of Computer Programmers... (Score:1)
This is refreshing News for Nerds!
Re:Neil's credits (Score:2)
My advice: keep reading. As quickly as the second of the TPB's, it dumps the superhero junk and very quickly becomes among the best books, "comic" or otherwise, most people I know have ever read.
Oh, and yes, the pictures and words in Sandman probably could stand alone (you'd have to put it into novel form, I'm guessing, but that's not too much of an alteration).
Re:anime rocks (Score:1)
Subtitled version will be on video (?) (Score:1)
More info on the film, including an interview with Neil Gaiman, can be found here [corona.bc.ca].
JMC
Re:Are we not nerds? (Score:1)
Re:Hopefully, Anime will become more mainstream... (Score:1)
Re:Straight to video? (Score:1)
I believe the Video rights are held by buena vista entertainment (they are in japan anyway) and there is no official word on a subtitled release at this time:( I know there are a few fansubs floating around, and that the Ohio State Anime club has a great sub.
The CD for this movie rocks as well, just try to get the Japanese release, since they changed the theme song to English and it's just not nearly as good.
And, as I am a total fanatic for this movie, I also bought "Princess Mononoke: The Art and Making of Japan's Most Popular Film of All Time." Just got it from Amazon... pretty pictures.
Not everyone against dubs is elitist (Score:2)
Surely you must admit that people who know the language should prefer to see the film in the original language, rather than English.
Your comment that every animated film is dubbed is completely false. You must be under the impression that the images are drawn first and then the voices are recorded. In fact, an animated film is made in the opposite order. First the audio is recorded, and then the images are drawn, frame by frame, to fit the voices exactly. Fitting drawn images to a prerecorded audio track gives much more satisfying results than trying to fit a new audio track to an existing video. That is one reason why some people genuinely prefer to view animated films with the original sound track.
Finally, as has already been remarked above, Japanese voice actors do voice acting for a profession, while American movie stars are not accustomed to the role. In Japan the actors spend a lifetime honing their skills at voice acting. In America voice acting is treated as an afterthought. It should come as no surprise that the Japanese actors deliver much more pleasing performances.
Re:Why I hate Anime subtitles and prefer dubs... (Score:1)
Re:miyazaki = icky treacle (Score:1)
Re:Neil's credits (Score:2)
(I'm being Jiji for Halloween. My girlfriend is being Kiki. Miyazaki is good stuff!)
Mononoke denial. (Score:1)
Where is it? When?
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Re: (Score:1)
The trailer... (Score:1)
I must admit that when I learned that Disney was going to import this movie about a year ago, I was a bit apprehensive. After all the "dubbed versions of anime` that I've seen
Les Tolbert
looks like it opens tomorow(friday) in LA (Score:1)
aka The Quest (Score:1)
:) (Score:1)
As for the translation, Neil Gaiman apparently tried very hard to stick closely to the original.
Re:Straight to video? (Score:1)
Re:Kiki's Delivery Service (Score:1)
Also, Jiji, Kiki's cat, talked too much. There are scenes where in the Japanese version, Jiji isn't saying anything, but in the English version, he is. Also, all of Jiji's lines were changed from the Japanese version. All his jokes are different. In fact, Jiji really wasn't very funny in the Japanese version.
Oh man. This is bringing back some horrible memories. They completely trashed the opening theme. The Japanese opening theme is this song which really sounds like a 1950's pop song, only sung in Japanese. It's a beautiful song. The American people decided that they had to replace it with a cheezy Generation-X modern rock type song. The movie is supposed to be taking place in the 1950's, I think. Why do they have to make the opening theme completely out of place? Couldn't they have replaced it with an English-laguage 1950's pop-style song?
Crypt.x
Re:Neil's credits (Score:1)
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Disney can't touch it (Score:1)
Mononoke sold out (IIRC the theater only held like 200-250 people).
As part of Buena Vista's distribution deal with Studio Ghibli, they CANNOT edit any of Miyazaki's work. Unlike his other work Mononoke is seen as more mature, so it is actually being distributed by Miramax.
While unable to see Mononoke, I did see My neighbor Totoro, Porco Rosso (been waiting years for that), and Laupta: castle in the Sky. All were very good.
Typical themes are female child/adolescent protagonists, change thru conflict (often nature vs man), and a notable abscence of good vs evil. Miyazaki is a big flight buff as well and you see a lot of that in several of his films.
As mentioned before, his films can run over 2 hours, but they are paced really well and a good mix of plot and characterizations.
That said, I get to see a sneak preview Wednsday and hear Gaiman speak afterward!
Re:If you didn't like Princess Mononoke, (Score:1)
Webslacker dun said: Oh, and another great from Studio Ghibli is Grave of the Fireflies. Roger Ebert said it was the only animated movie that ever made him cry.
"Only animated movie that ever made him cry", HELL. Trust me when I say you don't want ANY sharp objects around (or even dull ones capable of causing self-injury) when watching "Grave of the Fireflies", especially the last 45 minutes or so. (I'm not going to say why, because this would constitute a major spoiler warning--let's just say that the movie occurs near the end of WW II in Japan and snowflakes don't occur in summer, and leave it at that.) It is a HORRIBLY depressing movie, though not without good reason...
Me, well, I'm still kinda pissed/whingy that the closest theatre to where I live that is showing "Princess Mononoke" is OVER THREE HUNDRED MILES AWAY *sob* *wail* *howl at moon* *rending of clothing and donning of sack-cloth and ashes ensues*. So I have to now pressure y'all who ARE near major market areas that are showing it to go see "Princess Mononoke" if I have any hope of seeing it come to theatres in Louisville instead of waiting for over a year for it to come out on DVD.
Trust me, you want to see this movie . One, it is positively beautiful and from what I've heard they've not farged the dubbing up (Gaiman is just about the only person alive that I think could pull it off, but from what I've heard he's done it). Secondly, 235 million Japanese can't be wrong (it literally was the most popular movie EVER in Japan until Titanic--I'm up for starting a posse to feed Leonardo DeCaprio to the inugami ;). Thirdly, I promise you all it is nowhere near as suicide-inducing as "Grave of the Fireflies" (yes, there are tear-jerker scenes, but not the "gods, this is so sad I think I'm going to kill myself" kind--the good kind of tear-jerker). Fourthly, if you don't see it and it doesn't come to Louisville, I will make it my personal mission next Halloween to dress up as San and get a large club and personally beat living hell out of each and every Slashdot reader who was within 50 miles of a market showing "Princess Mononoke" and didn't see it (yes, I want to see the movie THAT badly, no, I don't have enough money for a 600-mile road trip or I'd be going on one my own bloody self, and YES, I'M DEADLY SERIOUS ABOUT HOW THIS MOVIE BETTER COME TO LOUISVILLE THEATRES, DAMNIT :)=. ;3
(As a minor aside, something tells me that Miramax/Disney won't be bringing over "Grave of the Fireflies". I am not certain Disney wants the larger part of its adult audience to commit suicide. :) Though it might make a REALLY nice Christmas present to Michael Eisner :)=
I disapprove (Score:1)
Re:Kiki's Delivery Service (Score:1)
Yes, disney added music (Night on Bald Mountain? Why?) and changed the intro music. They HAD to. They weren't selling the movie to the Japanese. They were selling it to Americans. Americans with short attention spans. Americans who are scared of hearing their own thoughts during the silence.
I didn't much like the additions. And I think Jiji talked way too much. But I did appreciate the reactions of the children who watched and enjoyed the movie. They didn't know of the alterations. They just knew they had been entertained.
Somedays that's what it's all about: Entertainment.
Overall, disney did a damn fine job with Kiki, and I suspect they'll do even better with the next film.
BTW, they didn't make any change that wasn't approved by Ghibli. So you can blame them, I suppose.
(Dear moderator: My name is on-topic. Does that count? ^_^)
--
Monoke Hime (Score:1)
I am also a huge fan of Miyuzaki, and for the work that the "two horse power" studios produce. Nausicaa is still my favorite anime movie of all time, and the manga is one of the greatest literary works I've ever read.
That being said, I didn't care for this movie all that much. No one was more surprised than me :) I didn't like any of the characters, and so I didn't care what happened to them. Also, the moral of the movie took center stage, and thus weakened it. Overall, the movie just didn't have much depth to it. The movie also lacked an element of fun. Miyuzaki has produced fluff before, but when he produces fluff, it is usually fun fluff.
As for Neil Gaiman, everything he touches is gold. I havn't seen the dubbed version yet, but I have total faith in Neil Gaiman's ability. His Sandman series is a work of true genius, and I have no doubt that he did a good job with this.
The real story here is the mainstreaming of anime that is going on. I've been involved in anime for many years, and I've seen the anime tide growing. It will be interesting to see what impact this movie has. If it does well in the test theatres and is widely released, it could be considerable. But even if it doesn't do well, it won't matter that much. Anime has been eroding at the cultural and commercial barriers for a long time, and it will continue to do so until the dam breaks. As it stands, anime is already being mainstreamed at a very fast pace. It's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of when and how.
Re:Miyazaki is the Kurosawa of animation, but ... (Score:1)
I have copies of almost all of Miyazaki's works. I do prefer the originals.
However, I'm also very glad to be able to suggest titles such as Kiki and Totoro to my friends and their families, and know that they will enjoy them without thinking they are 'foreign.'
I'm reminded of a new slogan that was suggested to a long-time anime importer for use with their first dubbed title: Anime for Illiterates
They didn't use it, unfortunately. ^_^
--
re: anime rocks (Score:1)
Rurouni Kenshin is one of my all-time favourite anime series. It's coming to the US and Canada soon, and I REALLY hope they don't screw it up.
(of course, the manga is better :-)
I saw Mononome Hime at two of my anime clubs last year, and I must say that it is an excellent movie. I will not pass up the cahnce to see it if it comes to a theatre around here. I'm not sure if it's showing in Toronto or not.
Yeah, well... (Score:1)
The best stuff I've ever seen is either (nudge-nudge-wink-wink-grin-grin) illegal or hard-to-find -- and is never aired on television. While excluding those who don't appreciate Anime from the human race is drastic, it should be noted that what we get on this side of the ocean on TV is poor quality judgment material, and the good subtitled Anime is far too expensive (Makes sense, doesn't it? You spend less money on voice talent, generally less on localization and down-dumbing, and charge twice as much...).
There's better stuff out there, somewhere -- it's just too expensive and takes just a bit too much effort to find.
Re:About Nausicaa (Score:1)
There are a couple of reasons for this. One is that the manga was not yet complete when the animated version was filmed (and wouldn't be completed for many years afterward). Another reason is that the story was altered deliberately so that it would be a complete, self-contained story in the movie version, with the most important elements from the manga.
Now, they do treat it well.
I'd hope so! Remember, the movie was written, directed, and animated by the same man who wrote and drew the manga version.
Re:Are we not nerds? (Score:1)
You have got to be joking.
Or perhaps you have your own, novel definition of the word 'style'. Please share with the group.
Re:Monoke Hime (Score:1)
I have to disagree. Sandman is an example of a splendid idea that was only mediocre in execution. With a more competent writer it could have been a work of genius. It had been tolerable up to "The Kindly Ones" arc, when it tanked completely. The ending had been telegraphed at the climax of the previous arc. When it eventually arrived, having taken far too long, it was an anticlimax. Perhaps this is the preferred arrangement in whatever poststructuralist aesthetic Gaiman subscribes to, but it left me flat. Good Omens was excellent, but I ascribe that to Terry Pratchett's influence - the man is incapable of telling a bad story. I therefore find Gaiman's involvement in Mononoke Hime worrysome.
Re:A good dub of anime!? shock! (Score:1)
Re:Didn't rock *my* world... (Score:1)
You really do need to understand what they are saying in order to fully appreciate the movie.
I just hope for you guys that they do a decent job of dubbing for a change. Believe it or not, bad dubbing was one of the reasons I started to learn Japanese =)
They need a real director who can find voices that match the characters, and actors who can act. If Disney can do it, why can't they?
Either way, I'm adding this film to my Miazaki favorite list, along with Kiki's delivery service, Laputa, and Tonari no Totoro.
spoiler, kinda (Score:1)
Re:If you didn't like Princess Mononoke, (Score:1)
Also, Grave of the Fireflies was already snapped up by Central Park Media before Disney inked the 9-film deal with Studio Ghibli, and was already released with subtitles by CPM, so there you have it.
Disney probably will "embraced ext..." it (Score:1)
It's not in Miramax, a Disney subsidiary's best interest to open poeple's eyes on what an ture talent can do to the animation format. As you all know, there is only one movie genre is under monopoly control of one Studio--the animation market. Despite limited success of Fox's freshman effort, Anastasia, the best animation from non-Disney studios in the last few year, Iron Giant has received a pretty bad B.O.
Lucky for all of you, Miyazaki's contract has stretch that nobody can re-edit the films. You are not going to lost too much despite the dub. I can't imagine what kind of butching will they do to the greatest animation, that is Kiki's delivery Service. (It's in my opinion that Kiki's Mr.Miyazaki's best film and Laputa, Castle in the Sky follow close second. I'm not about to let you change my mind.)
Now Miramax is a great Oscar specialist, but it's never very good at these low profile films. If you don't believe bad marketing can ruin a good movie, look no further than Babe II. At least it had some promotion to back it up. Have you ever seen a trailor of Mononoke? If you want to see Pincess Mononoke has a chance, to reach the brainwashed American public pick up you phone and call Miramix.
CY
Re:stop bashing dubs (Score:1)
Some anonymous coward dun wrote:
It'd have been flawless--IF THEY DIDN'T MAKE TENCHI SOUND LIKE A DAMNED MUPPET! "This is Kermit dee Juraian Prince speaking..." I swear the voice actor sounds like Kermit...I literally can't watch the dub without laughing my arse off because of this, and nobody else I know can, either. :3
On the other hand, if any of you want to know what a Louisville accent sounds like...Ryoko in the dubs sounds dead like she should be from Louisville, or at least SOME part of the South...but she sounds more like Louisvillians than, say, Tennesseans or people from central or Eastern Kentucky...just a twinge of twang there...
And now for something semi-unrelated to dubs, but related peripherally to Tenchi. Anyone who hates Micros~1 or even dislikes them really needs to get a copy of "Pretty Sammy" volume 2 (subbed or dubbed, don't matter none) and watch it. It is, very possibly, one of the most savage parodies of Micros~1 I have ever seen--about the only things changed are involvement of Sasami as a magical princess (taking the piss of Sailor Moon) and names changed to protect the guilty. :)
And I STILL think Apple ripped off the design of the I-Book from Washu's laptop in the Pretty Sammy series ;)
Anime as a legitimate art form (Score:2)
Re:A good dub of anime!? shock! (Score:1)
A good review, but some minor nitpicks...
Actually, the Ainu aren't dead. Marginalised to hell and back, yes...but they aren't extinct. There are several hundred to thousands of Ainu alive and well on Hokkaido and Sakhalin islands, trying very hard to keep their culture alive.
Oddly, the Ainu may have come from an earlier culture called the Jomon culture, which is known from pottery and (possibly) from some rather spectacular underwater monoliths off the coast of Okinawa. (The modern Japanese culture is thought to be largely a mix of Jomon and ancient Korean influences, and racially the Japanese, Koreans, and Mongolians fit in the same subdivision of Oriental peoples.) The movie does hint strongly of Ashitaka being a remnant of the Jomon people; Jomon artwork is actually shown in the beginning. (This probably counts as One Of Those Bits Of Japanese Culture Most Merkuns Wouldn't Get. ;)
I'll agree it doesn't translate at all well. Gaiman hinted (in earlier discussions on the translation) that a good translation of the title could be "Shamanic Princess" (alas, there's already an anime by that name or I'm sure it would have been used).
As I understand it (and please note that my grasp of Japanese mythology isn't as good as it should be) the concept of "mononoke" is similar to both stories of the "fae-folk" in Ireland and the concept of Animal Masters in Native American mythos--at the same time. They could be helpful or angry, depending on their nature and how they were treated...in Ireland, too, faerie stuff tends to be feared because it's generally NOT nice to mess with the fae-folk (they were seen as capricious).
(minor spoiler) If one needs to put this in perspective with other mythologies one might be more familiar with, the little forest-spirits could be seen almost like pixies and it could be argued in all seriousness that San was raised by Wolf (as in big-W Wolf, as in the Animal Master sense of Wolf). It's not 100% exact, but it's as close as one is going to get and a hell of a lot closer than one'd get in most Western mythology at the least :)
To give credit, this could be a bad translation on either side. (First off, I honestly don't know if there ever were wolves in Japan the same way there were in, say, Russia. Secondly, sometimes things get described VERY differently in other languages and a literal translation is going to be off--for example, in Lakota the word for "horse" translates literally to "mystery [magick? mononoke? ;)] dog", and in several Native American languages the terms for dog and/or coyote translate to "little wolf" or the term for wolf translates to "little coyote" or "wild dog". Considering Japanese and English are as different as, say, English and most Native American languages in both the way one "thinks" in the language and in the way things are typically named, I can well see how "wolf" could come out as "mountain dog". Then again, I have minor side interests in both Japanese and Native American languages--I honestly think in some ways it'd be easier to translate from Japanese to Tsalagiyi (Cherokee) or Dine' (Navaho) or Anishinaabeg (Ojibwa) and back than it would be to translate from any of those four languages to English because the modes of "thinking" and expressing are more similar between those four languages than they are between English (which is pretty darned amazing, since all five languages are in totally separate language families that probably either evolved totally separately from each other or diverged shortly after humans developed language). :)
Re:Grave of the Fireflies!!! (Score:1)
Hell, it was only last year that AnimeVillage started _officially_ releasing Gundam tapes in the U.S. and it was only at AX that they announced they would be releasing 08th MS Team and Gundam-W.
Please be careful of spoilers in reviews! (Score:1)
note in the introduction if a review contains
a spoiler. Or take a note from traditional
journalism nd make a distinction between a
"review" (answers the question "will this
movie/book interest you?") and a "critique"
("here's what I thought of that piece of work,
which I assume you are familiar with.").
Slashdot readers will thank you!
Re:Thanks...but can you elaborate? (Score:1)
I'll happily support David Jao's argument. Bonzai! Bonzai!
Re:Because a lot of us Nerds are into Anime! (Score:1)
Also check out "Pinky and the Brain" for at least one Bill Gates sendup that I know of.
OK, so it's not anime... it's still good.
words are slippery... (Score:1)
I think I pretty much agre with ajs' sentiments here. Books like Sandman do challenge assumptions and not everyone likes assumptions challenged. Heck (see(here [holycow.com]) when a Sandman issue won a World Fantasy Award, they changed the rules.
However I'm not sure I would call my shelf of graphic novels 'literature'. Poetry is generally respected but isn't called 'literature'.
My enjoyment of either doesn't suffer the missing
label.
And connotations of words do change. Not so long ago "nerd" was always an insult. In fact, with the ever-increasing impact of multimedia (- not a cliche, really it's retro-chic!), I'm almost worried about the fate of old-style "literature".
words are slippery... (Score:1)
I think I pretty much agre with ajs' sentiments here. Books like Sandman do challenge assumptions and not everyone likes assumptions challenged. Heck (see at bottom of here [holycow.com]) when a Sandman issue won a World Fantasy Award, they changed the rules.
However I'm not sure I would call my shelf of graphic novels 'literature'. Poetry is generally respected but isn't called 'literature'.
My enjoyment of either doesn't suffer the missing
label.
And connotations of words do change. Not so long ago "nerd" was always an insult. In fact, with the ever-increasing impact of multimedia (- not a cliche, really it's retro-chic!), I'm almost worried about the fate of old-style "literature".
Your definition of "dub" is wrong (Score:1)
4. dub vt or dubbed; or dub.bing [by shortening & alter. fr. double] 1: to provide a motion-picture film with a new sound track and esp. dialogue in a different language
Whenever I use the word "dub" I am going by the dictionary definition and not your definition. I find this course entirely reasonable.
Anyway, definitions are a minor point. If you want to use "dub" to refer to any audio recording process, then fine. I'll just pick a word such as "overdubbing" to stand for the replacement of an original audio track with a new one. Obviously my previous post used the word "dub" in this sense of "overdubbing". Using this custom terminology of yours, no anime fan is against dubbing, but many are against overdubbing.
I should never have said that the images fit the voices exactly. Obviously accuracy is limited by the resolution of video frames, which is about 1/30 of a second (and usually even less, because animators usually draw one image every 2-3 frames). However, my point still stands. Fitting images to voices yields much more natural results than fitting voices to video. There are far fewer inconsistencies that way, and the viewing experience is much more transparent. I don't even know why I'm wasting breath defending the audio-first approach. The fact that every single animated film is made with audio-first is evidence enough of its merits.
I never at any point said that I like words running over the artwork. I prefer no dubbing and no subtitles. But if I am forced to choose between dubbing and subtitles, I'll take the subtitles any day.
P.S. I find your implication that kids are the primary market for animated films a bit incongruous, since kids are not at all the primary market for the animation that we are discussing.
Re:anime dub probs (Score:1)
One of his best dubbing jobs and biggest roles was Goldenboy. (One of the best comedy-anime titles ever!) but you can usually find Doug Smith in just about every video released from ADV. Just watched Compiler last night (hey everyone, the 2 main females are named Compiler and Assembler!) and Doug had quite a few amusing lines on a TV in the background....
Re:Kiki's Delivery Service (Score:1)
Exactly. I held off watching the dub until about a month ago...I rented it from a video store down the street. My son (4.5yrs) watched it at LEAST twice a day every day for the entire week that we had it. he still quotes parts of the movie. the talkative cat was his favorite character.
was it different than the original? sure, a bit. did they RUIN it? I guess that depends on your perspective...
Re:Straight to video? (Score:1)
Re:Monoke Hime (Score:1)