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Music Media

Sony Cigar-Sized MP3 Player 219

Posted by CmdrTaco from the tommy-can-ya-hear-me dept.
Aaron Johns writes "The newest MP3 player on the market is from Sony, the VAIO Music Clip. It weighs less than two ounces, is a little over 4.5 inches long, and less than an inch in diameter. Only 64 Megs, but that's still two hours of music in a pen. " It's pretty cute. One thing ya gotta say about Sony, is that the guys designing the VAIO, AIBO, and this new music clip have a cool design sense... Despite how nifty this player looks I have to believe that with the onset of portable MP3 players with several hundred megs of storage, this one is probably too little too late.
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Sony Cigar-Sized MP3 Player

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  • Minidisc ? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is not a troll, but although there is quite a hype around MP3 at the time, I find Minidiscs far more convenient.
    The main disadvantage of MP3 devices is that you NEED to get back to your computer if you want to have more than 60 minutes or so of music and there are people who don't always have access to their computers. Not to mention that MD players are cheaper.

  • Is that an MP3 player in your pocket... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...or are you just glad to see me?

    (Sorry, someone had to say it.)

  • Re:digital copying to mp3 (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You can copy digitally from a CD to a MD player. You have to use the optical link.

    They also have a soundcard with an optical out from your computer (minidico sells them
    http://www.minidisco.com/minispecs/xitelplatinum .html) . I think its windoze only.

    I've used analog for some of my minidiscs and it works fine, almost unnoticably different from digital.

  • why this thing sucks (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 06, 2000 @08:45AM (#1300786)
    the musiclip isn't really an mp3 player; it plays atrac3 music files. if you have an mp3 file, it conerts it into an atrac3 file and plays it. not that atrac3 is that bad but that's one more level added on to degrade sound quality. it can change wav files directly to atrac3.. but this is sony, one of those big-wig corporate companies so they put in all this security junk on it to screw you over. read this [home.com].
  • No, the Memory Stick is used in the StickMan player. This is the Vaio Clip.

  • Portable MP3/Audio Player [tsx.org]

    Sorry, German only. It is basically something like a DiscMan which can read ISO9660 CDs and decode MPEG-I audio layer 3.

    Quite expensive, though. I'd rather burn my custom collection on normal audio CDs and use a cheap portable CD player instead.

  • Cool concept, but... (Score:4)

    by Skyshadow ( 508 ) on Sunday February 06, 2000 @08:57AM (#1300789) Homepage
    Pretty darn neat, but I can see two major flaws:

    a) It's awfully expensive for a couple of hours worth of music.

    b) It looks (God forgive me) like something you'd buy in a shop with a name like "Pure Pleasures" or "Sex World" and use for something other than a couple hours of music.

    Seriously, the real problem with all of these sorts of devices, walkmans, personal CD players etc. is that whenever I bother to program out what I think I want to hear, I change my mind a song or two in. The difference between MP3 and the previous generations of personal music devices is that they have the potential to solve my problems (well, at least this specific problem).

    What I'm really keen for is the day when I'll be able to stream music from my server at home directly to some sort of personal device -- maybe a Palm descendant of one kind or another. This probably isn't too far out; digital cellular of some sort coupled with your favorite PDA. This will let me decide what I want to hear when I'm out jogging or mowing the lawn or whatever. That would be a real nice paradigm shift.

    ----

  • Im excited about the USB interface...on Linux...
    Take a look at the latest kernel, LOTS of USB devices are supported.

    Will people STOP saying Linux does not have USB support! For the number of times I keep hearing it, I almost would start believing it, if I wasn't currently typing with my USB keyboard and using my USB HandSpring Visor docking station all the time...

    Linux USB homepage [linux-usb.org]

    On a related note, some people just got the RIO MP3 player working with the Linux USB stack, take a look at http://rio500.sourceforge.net [sourceforge.net] for more information on it.
  • First, 64MB is more something like 64 minutes of music. It's my average, on 30,000 songs collection. I prefer 112-128 kbps codecs.

    Second, I can't remember anybody complaining about size factor of Discman. Also, with pair of Duracels I can listen my Discman some eight to ten hours. And with single disk with 72 minutes and average price for Discman's more like $100, it's simple to continue reasoning.

    Third, 72 minutes off-the-shelf CD's are not so common, but with 8x CD-Writer in $200 price range, and blank media in $1 range... I can sacrifice $1 and 9 minutes for some throw-away collection for my listening pleasure. Or put that collection in some 24 pcs bag in car box and replace when I wish.
  • Well, there's the TRGpro [trgpro.com], a Palm III with a CF slot. It has .wav out, but it lacks a headphone jack. =(
  • Solid state devices really can't skip, unless maybe it's exposed to enough RF noise! Then you'd probably skip and stutter too as a result of that level of EMI.

    Incidentally, my little MD player has 'only' 10 seconds of anti-skip protection, but it took me two months to figure out how to skip it. And try I did. It never, ever, ever skips unless I am really trying, as it takes a fairly solid 'thud' by hand. And of course, my player costs less than any good MP3 player out there, at a decently competitive size with many MP3 players, except of course this one.
  • Bill and Monica.

    Good thing this wasn't around a few years ago. There is no telling what would have been done with it or how they would explain it to Mr. Starr.

    Here is a short survey.... of posible options

    What wold Bill and Monica do with this technology?

    insert it in an orifice rub it across the skin ensure watter damage Listen to it all of the above multitask

    Your name:

  • Bill and Monica.

    Good thing this wasn't around a few years ago. There is no telling what would have been done with it or how they would explain it to Mr. Starr.

    Here is a short survey.... of posible options

    What wold Bill and Monica do with this technology?

    A: insert it in an orifice

    B: rub it across the skin

    C: ensure watter damage

    D: Listen to it

    E: all of the above

    F: multitask

    Your name:

  • Non-SDMI players will go the way of the dinosaurs soon; once SDMI is finalised, making players which do not implement strict controls will be just asking to be sued into oblivion.

    Buy your Rios now while they still play MP3s.

    P.S. If you want a DVD-ROM that ignores zone protection, look around for secondhand ones, because all recently manufactured units are obliged to enforce the CCA's rules.
  • There will never be Linux support, on principle.
    Everybody knows that Linux is a virtual Mos Eisley of pirates who have no appreciation of intellectual property, and who by supporting efforts such as DeCSS, have declared war on civilised commerce.

    Besides, with Linux you can compile your own kernels, which makes hardware level security really difficult (unless such copware runs as root and preferably patches the kernel, which binary-only software cannot legally do). As such, companies aren't exactly hurrying to port their precious players/decryptors onto a platform where they may be easily reverse-engineered.

    (Aside: Chances are that in a few years' time, a licence will be required to legally possess ICE debuggers, akin to locksmithing licences. The comments of the judge in the DeCSS case seem to suggest that in the New World Order, "encryption research" is legally only for approved parties.)
  • Which burners degrade sound? I want to know so that I may avoid them like the plague.

    I compose music, and wish to make CDs. I have an old track-at-once CD-R writer, though would want to buy a disc-at-once unit at some stage. Since I intend to use it for recording music of my own composition (and on which I own the copyright, not the Big 4 or the RIAA, damnit), I will be royally pissed off if I am prevented from doing this by those thieving corporate dogfsckers who purport to own all digitally encoded sound.
  • Phase 1 SDMI is nothing, and I'm not planning to ever download an SDMI Phase 2 file to trigger Phase 2 protections,

    Is anybody planning to download one? I don't think there'll be a nice "download trigger" option (like those "UPLOAD VIRUS" buttons in bad computer movies of yore). Chances are, the trigger will be encoded in commercial sound files you buy over the Net. (Removing it will, of course, not be an option.) If you make your own sound files, chances are the SDMI-compliant encoder software will be obliged to put in the trigger after a certain date.

    If you use sound files made after a certain date, chances are you will download the trigger.
  • Well, I have a CDRW burner, so I'd like to stick with something along those lines - besides, it would be capable of functioning as a generic discman (why _wouldn't_ it?) and you could probably even evolve a standard for cds with mp3 and redbook tracks for extra fun.

    besides, i don't want to have to get an optical out card for my mac. But a usb is more commonplace. Not that firewire wouldn't be better, but it's not sufficiently common on your side of the fence yet ;)
  • Personally what I'm looking for is:
    • USB interface
    • Open CDROM format for storage
    • 16MB RAM (copy the file from CD to RAM)
    So maybe the best solution is a player which can operate either entirely on memory or with memory and a CD attached to it in some modular fashion.
  • they do. if you hit them with a hammer.

    I wonder though what exactly the "non-skip technology" is. The damn player has no moving parts.

    ___
  • What I want:
    A CD player that can also play mp3s off of a standard ISO CD and without bullshit like SDMI.

    ___
  • My roommate had a mini-disk player. As far as I can tell it's nothing more but a toy.

    There is no way to copy a mp3 on a mini-disc, or encode a CD on it. You have to record the music on it by playing it through another device. This is *analog* recording, which degrades the quality severely. On the other hand, when you encode mp3s you rip the digital image of the track -- and that makes a huge difference.

    Not to mention that mini-discs use Sony's proprietary format for storing music which Sony will not release the specs for.

    I am not defending mp3 players though. In my opinion they also suck. In 64MB of memory you can fit about an hour of music. And since it's not stored in a removable media you're stuck until you delete them and copy some new mp3s there.

    A portable player *must* have removable media. When oh when will these moronic companies pull their heads out of their asses and release something useful. I've been waiting for 2 years for a CD/mp3 player combo. Apparently some small companies did release it but the availability is scarse to say the least.

    ___
  • Yes exactly ... I can just see it now: "NO MOVING PARTS" emblazoned in big, yellow lettering on the package. And that's a warning, not a feature ;)

    --
  • I think I'll take a pass on any player that reduces my convenience.
    --
    Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS

  • Wrong answer. (Score:3)

    by squarooticus ( 5092 ) on Sunday February 06, 2000 @09:24AM (#1300808) Homepage
    Seeing as there's no legal reason for those OS's to lack USB support, the proper answer here is to finish USB support for Linux and add it to those other OS's. Honestly, do you expect the entire hardware industry to wait for every OS to get in line? That's not the kind of computer industry I want. (Though, OTOH, I don't want the kind that patents everything, either...)
    --
    Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
  • And not only that, but if you actually get one of the newer MD recording decks out there, they include features like faster than realtime recording, so you can dump a cd to MD in 5 minutes.

    Also, (and this is the kicker for me) the time it takes to reload your collection and get a fresh new mix of music: the time it takes to eject a disk and insert another. I just don't get the big push for solid-state only. The tech just ISNT good enough right now, and with SDMI looming in the background, I don't think its going to get better anytime now.

    All current devices store something like an hour or two of audio, but why settle, because when you get tired of that list, you have to go back to a computer to reload the collection. That takes time! I just carry 4 or 5 disks (tiny) in my pocket while walking around on campus. Viola, all my moods can be satisfied while in transit, no going back to base. The 10 hour battery life doesn't hurt either...

    And btw, you can get a nice unit (slightly larger than state-of-the-art) for about $200 at minidisco.com. Much cheaper.

  • Re:mini-disks are really useless (Score:3)

    by Ryandav ( 5475 ) on Sunday February 06, 2000 @02:17PM (#1300810) Homepage Journal
    Not at all. You can record digitally from another device, ripping byte-for-byte exactly what is on the CD, similar to ripping mp3s. You just have to use the optical in and digital cable that comes with the units these days.

    Minidiscs use the ATRAC format, which is comparable to MP3. In fact, there is less loss when compared to mp3 at similar bit-rates, although the end product is slightly larger.

    There are also, as I said before, home decks that record MD's which rip digitally, in faster than realtime, as well as soundcards you can get that output the cd info directly to the MD. There is _no_ discernable difference introduced, and in fact the sound can be enhanced with effects like additive bass. MD's sound incredible with good headphones or speakers.

    Go to www.minidisk.org and get the facts, MD's are too good to pass up anymore.

    BTW, the CD players that play mp3 CDs and regulars: expensive ($300 min). Skips, cause it's a cd player and can be jostled. large, comparatively, as are the media. MD is palm sized and smaller every day. Possibly much more fragile than the rugged MD players. They can be found by going to some links off of mp3.com, if you still want one.

  • Sony has a link on their Web site for feedback. Though the Music Clip is officially a "computing" product, I sent the feedback to their consumer electronics division. A copy of what I sent appears below.

    ____________________________

    My attention was called to your new product, the Sony MC-P10 VAIO Music Clip, by an article on Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/). It looks like a very nice device, one I would be interested in having.

    However, upon reviewing the feature list, I found that the MC-P10 is "SDMI Compliant." As an informed and ethical computing professional of over 20 years experience, I will not allow SDMI anywhere inside my computer, my home, or in the homes of my friends and family. I know exactly what SDMI is and what it does. I neither need it nor want it and, frankly, would prefer to have the option of buying equipment that has not been handicapped in this way.

    There is no law requiring you to install SDMI in your products. I therefore respectfully request that you offer versions of your products both with and without SDMI, and let the market decide which is superior. Until then, however, I and my colleagues will, sadly, have to forego what is otherwise a very fine product.

    Thank you for your time.

    Schwab

  • SDMI? Sony people: I'm sure a few of you read slashdot: SDMI is a bad word. We do not want it. I for one will not buy it.

    Repeat after me:
    I do not like SDMI.
    I think they should stick it
    in their eye.
    If you want to make
    us use SDMI
    then you will not get
    good demographics in the
    MP3 Pie.

    (Sorta rhymes. Sorta Suess-like. I tried :) )

  • ...That I noticed is that it is SDMI-compliant. I know my mp3 player isn't, and I would spculate most others aren't. Ah well. I would hope this player would take the Memory Sticks Sony created ... that would make the 64meg ceiling a little less prohibitive.
  • i know this is really the obvious comment, but some people have got to realise that sometimes a cigar-shaped MP3 player is just a cigar-shaped MP3 player.
  • I submitted this to /. a while ago but...

    Here's a watch from Casio that can play 32MB of MP3s. Not too practical, but pretty neat.

    They also have a watch that is a digital camera.
    See it here. [casio.co.jp]

  • I think you've hit on something with the upload/download of non-mp3 files.

    I love the idea of this stick/pen/cigar being a General Purpose Computer that happens to be able to playback music. This would make a convient floppy disk replacement.

    If it had IrDA or some sort of radio link, it could also be used as a good door key or other security application!


  • Let's just forget that the damn thing costs $300, shall we? We should be down on our knees worshipping Sony for deigning to bestow this marvel of modern technology upon us.

    Yeah, right.

    (BTW: What are you babbling about mini phono jacks for? The article says that he was surprised that it uses standard mini phono jacks, rather than the non-standard Sony connector used on Minidisk players, etc.)

  • Well, I don't have a URL for you, but a couple of the latest players can take the IBM micro harddrives in their CompactFlash slot. That gives you either 170MB or 340MB of storage (of course, they're not solid state, so you can presumably break them by dropping them on a hard surface or something.)
  • No. It means you'll get sued under the DMCA if you find some kludge to make it work.

    -- Named Defendant #2, DVD CCA vs Most Of The Internet
  • it's value as an entertainment 'device' increases. Just wait until www.goodvibes.com cobrands a version. Or maybe the owner of the patent to force-sensitive, sound-pplaying condoms [ibm.com] will integrate this technology into his next patent...
  • A while ago, I was reviewing a MPMan for mp3.com, and I had in my car with me. Since it came with crappy earbud headphones, I used my Aiwa headphones (with a 10-foot cord). Anyway, as I was getting out of the car, I accidentally caught the headphone cord unknowingly. Attached to the end of its 10-ft cable was the MPMan. As the cable tightened, I moved out of the car, and the MPMan flew along. It *skipped* across the parking lot and finally came to rest about 15 ft away. But it still played fine after that... :)
  • Ya'll are hackers here (well, a good portion of you). Anyway you people can make this beautiful piece of hardware play pure MP3s, no hassle? That'd be *great*.
  • Yea, this thing has no *space* for memory clip. It's not expandable at all.

    CompactFlash is good, why can't they stick with one standard, instead of 3 different storage types?
  • Don't Minidisc's skip? If I was a runner (which, unfortunately, I'm not) I'd much rather have a MP3 player that doesn't skip vs. a Minidisc player that does.

    Plus, I don't have any Minidisc disks. Say I own a different MP3 player that has a CompactFlash slot. I could move around CompactFlash cards between my digital camera, and my TRGPro [trgpro.com].

    Minidiscs haven't ever been a big technology in the United States, and they'll be pretty much overlooked by the majority of the population.

  • According to this article [home.com], it can't handle variable-bit rate encoding. And that's not the worst of its problems..
  • Here's [mambox.com] an alternative English language link to the Mambo-X MP3 player.



    --
  • ..is that an MP3 player in your pocket or are you just really happy to see me?
  • It's cute, but much too expensive and it doesn't appear to be very functionally elegant (no ff/rw, small screen). With something this small I'm wondering why other players can't be as small.

    I have a Handspring Visor [handspring.com] that I use on a daily basis and bought specifically because of the expansion module (and lower price). I'm hoping that someone will come out with a springboard module that doesn't extend beyond the edge of the Visor's case. The MiniJam from Innogear [innogear.com] just seems to bulky and the small size of the Music Clip from Sony proves it. Remove the screen and usb connector (I'm guessing you can load songs into the modules via the springboard connector through the Visor at a decent rate) from the Music Clip and the circuitry must be quite small. The only issues would then be the buttons, headphone jack (put them on the top edge of the springboard) and battery life (use a rechargable battery pack in the module and dc power connector on the top or just use the visor batteries). One of the reasons PDA's are cool is because they're small and I'd like to keep mine that way.

  • I never use anything below 128kbps, as a matter of fact, 160kbps is sometimes even needed to really get it right.

    Same here. I've been using the variable rate encoding with Xing with very good results. My question would be whether this thing could play back these files properly.

    What would be really neat is if the download software could selctively reduce the bitrate from the original mp3. If I were just planning on listening on headphones, then I could get away with 64k.

    How about an ethernet hookup instead of usb for downloading new tunes?

    GRH

  • Moderate the parent message up. Everybody should read this link. It'll really make you think twice.

    GRH
  • Thanks, I had a read of that article too. Boy this thing looks good in "marketing speak", but it sucks at a usability/hackability level.

    GRH
  • "..too little too late"..? [groan] If the beanies weren't already over, I'd nominate CmdrTaco for "worst bad pun of the year." ;P

    James
  • Well, here is the MPAA member Sony making a MP3 player. Now all we need is a free DVD player from RIAA..
  • Why is this marked "troll"? It's getting to be the truth these days!

    Slashdot does indeed suck!
  • just a guess---
    encoding maybe?
  • Sony stopped using those proprietory connectors in new MD devices a while ago. And it's also being used for discmans.
  • If you position it into a position where the disc is not flopping around as much (i.e. attaching it your belt, which you would usually do anyway. Who puts something in their pocket for a jog?), then even 10 seconds would probably not make it skip. Especially if you attach it to the side of your belt/shorts.

    Believe me, I've done a lot of experimentation. You can jog as hard as you want as long as you have it positioned properly.
  • Minidisc was and is a big hit in Asia. It is widely available and priced very competitively.

    Units and other equipment are available from... Sony, Sharp, Kenwood, JVC, Aiwa, Sanyo, Panasonic, Goldstar, Casio, Onkyo, Yamaha, Teac, and Pioneer, to name a few.

    Discs are available from... Sony, Aiwa, TDK, Axia, Maxell, Hi-Space, JVC/Victor, Memorex, BASF, 3M, Panasonic, Denon, JVC, Mitsubishi, Konica, KAO, Fuji, and Sharp, to name a few. Recognise these companies fron anywhere?

    Sorry. MiniDisc is available from a wide variety of vendors in every department. There is more competition in the MiniDisc market than there is in the MP3 player market.

    And I, being a person with a large number of CDs, am not going to lug around a laptop to change tracks on my MP3 player.
  • Let's compare prices here.

    A 64MB CF card costs from $150 to $200. And it stores around 60-62 minutes of 128kilobit MP3 data.

    Now, I only record my favourite tracks to minidisc. It just so happens that I listen to a lot of music. I carry around 12 MiniDiscs (In a pair of TDK MusicJack cases), and every single track in there is golden. The "so-so" tracks may be recorded onto other discs, which I have around 20 of which I don't listen to too much. If I don't use the cases it actually doesn't take up much space.

    Okay, all 12 of the discs are filled to the brink. There's usually around 73 minutes on them (there's usually around one or two minutes left at the end which I can't fit a complete track in).

    73 minutes/disc * 12 discs = 876 minutes

    876 minutes * 60 seconds/minute = 52560 seconds

    52560 seconds * 131072 bits/sec = 6889144320 bits

    6889144320 bits / 8 bits/byte = 861143040 bytes

    861143040 bytes / 1048576 bytes/megabyte = 821.25 megabytes

    821.25 megabytes / 64 megabytes/card ~= 12.83 cards.
    Since you can't have fractional cards, we'll round it up to 13.

    13 cards * 165 dollars/card = 2145 dollars.
    Note that $165 per 64MB card is a relatively optimistic price already.

    Two boxes of TDK Colour MusicJacks cost me HK$69 each. According to the current exchange rate of US$0.1285 per Hong Kong dollar at 8:30pm today, that's ~$17.73. Okay, discs in the US and Canada are around $1.50 to $2 if you know where to look. (Note that $165 per 64MB CF card is also a price quoted for "if you know where to look"). Let's make it $2.50.

    2.5 dollars/disc * 12 discs = 31.25 dollars

    Let's look at the ratio, shall we?

    2145 : 31.25 = 68.64 : 1

    So CompactFlash media costs 68.64 times more than MiniDisc media.

    Then again, if you listen to the same songs over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, suit yourself. Get MP3.
  • The manual states that VBR encoding MP3s are not supported.
  • Uhm, there are many consumer sound cards with digital output. Aureal Vortex SuperQuad ($47 on pricewatch) has optical output for portable units, as well as the Xitel Storm Platinum, Turtle Beach Montego II+, VideoLogic Sonic Vortex 2, to name a few. The plain vanilla SBLive! Value revision 2 has coaxial digital output, and optical can be added with an inexpensive bracket.
  • How about real time recording? The Nomad does that, but again, solid state media is expensive.

    Apart from listening to music, I also record videos and lessons from school. Great for reviewing. I'd like to see you juggle around several hour long lectures with a Nomad.
  • It can convert into OpenMG MP3 format. Still not pretty, but you are incorrect in that matter.
  • I agree. They just aren't there yet.

    I have a minidic player and its been great. I use it alot, cary about 5 to 10 of those little disc with me when I leave the apartment in the AM. And the discs are cheap enough so I have about 40 or so and don't have to worry about downloading the music I want.

    The quality is fantastic (way better than 160 kbps mp3). 9 hours per rechargable battery charge too.

    And the coolest thing is the little remote that hangs off the end of the headphone cable. (actually kinda in the middle of the cable with the headphones attached). You can change songs/volume while keeping the unit in your pocket.
  • If you carry MDs in a pouch without their cases they're also pretty small.
    Data storage is a non-issue here. I want to store music on my Minidiscs, not text files. If you believe you need one format for all things then that's your problem. I can't picture anyone wasting any of the scarce space on flashcards for data files when they go into an MP3 player.
    So in two years you'd pay $50 for roughly 2 hours of music ? Let's see, today I can get two MDs with 148 minutes overall for $4. Beats the hell out of flashcards IMHO.
    And if you get a player with 40 seconds buffer and use it smartly, they don't skip.
  • I love my MD player... cheap, rerecordable, easy to manage... If someone would design a USB CD-ripper for my MD player, I'd bear their children.
  • Will have to look at that...

    Assume it's digital?

  • The pros:

    1. Cool form factor
    2. Less than 2 oz weight
    3. Good Sony quality electronics
    4. USB interface

    The cons:

    1. "SDMI Compliant"
    2. Expensive
    3. Not much memory

    Sadly, I think the cons outweigh the pros. That "SDMI Compliant" part is the worst. SDMI sounds like a very unworkable solution to something that should be a non-problem. It's sad to see many good MP3 playsers ruined by this "security".

    Here's what I want in an MP3 player:

    • USB interface
    • Upload and download of files (not just MP3s)
    • Minimum of 64 MB of RAM, expandable
    • no SDMI
    • Good mechanical design
    • Good playback functions (random, repeat, programmed, bass, treble)

    Sadly I haven't found anything that meeds those requirements. USB is one because it's fast, it's much easier than a parallel port device, and it should be "plug 'n play". Upload and download of files is an important thing too. I want to be able to use this thing to move a file from one computer to another as well as to play MP3s. A 64 MB file transfer device sounds really useful. Of course if the thing is SDMI Compliant that would probably be impossible. And finally I want the thing to be at least as good a portable music device as my portable CD player. It should be rugged and still have good music functionality.

    I'd love to hear of someone who has found a player that does all that, so if you know of one, speak up. Until I find one I'm going to stick with my CD player.

  • It's pretty weak of Slashdot to promote MPAA-member products while other sites are taking the legal heat for promoting open source code. Slashdot should keep its ads at the top of the page.
  • Sorry to wet your collective cirgar but this _thing_ is SMDI compliant, which, as we all know, requires a boycott.

    buy someting else that is not SMDI compliant, and maybe drop Sony a line explaingin to them why exactly you chose the competitions' product.

  • Ha ha! Knew there had to be a good joke in there about Whitehouse interns and 'cigar-sized' objects! Good one, made me smile! Thanks
  • Could someone list what players are soon to appear that offer "several hunderd meg of storage"? I agree that 64 megs just isn't enough and have been waiting for something with more capacity.

    Thanks

  • Fair use. (Score:3)

    by Matt2000 ( 29624 ) on Sunday February 06, 2000 @08:45AM (#1300854) Homepage
    I would recommend that this item not be sold to the President, who knows where he'll try to stick it.


    Hotnutz.com [hotnutz.com] - Funny
  • Well, PS2 does have USB, so....
  • What are you talking about? When you buy something, whether it's a car or a CD player or a DVD player or a TV or a computer or whatever you have a right to do what you want with it (at least you used to). That means you can take it apart or throw it against the wall or make it into something else if you want to. Of course, you can't call their technical support asking them for help putting it back together... for that you're probably on your own. I hope you were being cynical.
  • b) It looks (God forgive me) like something you'd buy in a shop with a name like "Pure Pleasures" or "Sex World" and use for something other than a couple hours of music.
    Totally irrelevant to the main story, but this reminds me of the latest and the greatest: the iBrator ! [ibrator.com] (Now available in candy colors)
  • It is going to be one of many Memory Stick devices. Sony was big on them at Comdex. Expect to see them make a play to replace CompactFlash and SmartMedia with Memory Stick Technology in cameras, music devices, and other appliances.

    I think it kicks ass, myself.
  • Did anyone else go to the site and see the marketing-ese about "non-skip technology"? Who do they think they are trying to fool? What would you need to make an mp3 player skip? A hammer?

  • Ordered up this little sucker the day I saw it, being a collector of (still)early adopter portables.

    Is it cool? Yeah, the form factor and controls are the usual Sony high standard. It sounds excellent, with less amplification than the Lyra but with three pretty crappy EQ presets only. The included headphones are garbage, but have a cool 6 inch cord and a tiny plug to complete the "tiny" effect.

    As for the SDMI thing, who the hell cares? Phase 1 SDMI is nothing, and I'm not planning to ever download an SDMI Phase 2 file to trigger Phase 2 protections, which aren't even finalized yet anyway. So for now, me and my gigs of music are free to use the Music Clip. But it's memory limit is a bummer, though it's hard to hang my 680mb i2go from a thin strap around my neck like the Clip.

    I agree with someone's comment that the Sony designers are rocking. AIBO, the little VAIO laptops, their DV videocameras, and that really cool F505 Cybershot camera all have the same really well thought out usability.

  • If they claim it's an "MP3 Player" but it doesn't really play mp3's, isn't that false advertising?
  • i have been thinking about getting a portable mp3 player for a while. i to have been unimpressed with the various features of the ones currently on the market (primarily the memory requirement)

    my solution: buy a portable minidisc player/recorder.

    the media is pretty cheap (2 bucks per disc). you can record over the discs a seemingly infinite number of times. mine can play for upto 40 hours without a charge. you can record digitly using a fiberoptic cable and a sound card with optical out. hoontech makes one that is supported underlinux with alsa and oss.


    john

  • besides, i don't want to have to get an optical out card for my mac.

    oh im sorry. i made a mistake when i said _had_ to have an optical output... what i ment to say was something like this:

    while you can still record using the analog out most soundcards have. you do have the _option_ of recording digitally with an optical cable....

    once you write your audio cd. i want you to stick it into a discman, turn on the anti shock protection and shake the crap out of it for a minute or so while you play it.

    i know your saying that you dont jar your player for that amount of time, but just having the antishock stuff turned on really blows the battery fast.


    john
  • I saw this a while ago and was tempted to buy one - Sony has some of the best designs out there. Then one discovers it's SDMI compliant.

    But now, stop and think for a minute. This is Sony. Owner of one of the BIGGEST record labels in the country, and they're best buddies with the RIAA. What did you expect?

    I think I'll wait for the new Creative Labs one coming out, or that Pine Music CD/MP3 player. I would stay away from this one until the SDMI stuff sorts out, personally.

    --bdj

  • What's the quadruple-shift-click combo that disables the SDMI stuff? We know it exists.

    Ryan
  • They already have these.

    http://www.pineusa.com/mp3-cd.htm [pineusa.com]

  • Now we just need a pipe-shaped mp3 player, so the MPAA can put 'em in it's pipe and smoke it =D

  • Doh (Score:2)

    by jeremy f ( 48588 )
    "SDMI Compliant"

    ...Great. "This unit will self-destruct upon playing a pirated mp3". Hehe, I bet the RIAA wishes :)

    Anyway, back on topic, the only thing I really don't like about this is that there doesn't appear to be any way to upgrade the unit. The codec is expandible (mp4 anyone?), but not the memory. 64 megs is okay, but I'm gonna need to order 110 of these things to fit all of my music collection onto (at the mere cost of $33,000). Most of the other memory-based portable mp3 players have flash cards available -- which is great, store 2-3 CD's (or mixes) on one, and have 1 or 2 extra around.

    And before anyone argues that I have too many mp3s, about 99% of my mp3s are legal, so don't go into issues about me having too many. I was raised in the CD generation, remember :)


    _____________________
  • Everybody's upset about it being SDMI-compliant". (Does that really mean it won't play "normal" MP3's I've ripped from my own CD's with AudioCatalyst? If so, how do they expect to sell any?)

    SDMI devices *may* include a watermark detection system so that you will not be able to play any mp3s which come from newer watermarked CDs. This will force you to use the ripping software which comes with the player and only runs under windows (thus forcing you to pay the microsoft tax). It could also mean that if you lose your player and buy a new one you will need to rerip all your CDs (since the songs were only encoded for the old player). There may be all sorts of other nast preasents from the RIAA inside like sound degradation "features." They have managed to get sound degradation features included in some new CD burnners.

    Regardless, there will be all sorts of nasty attempts to leverage the RIAA's control over SDMI into additional control over the music industry and additional restrictions on independant bands (The RIAA has been hostile to bands which refuse to get ripped off by the industry and sell their stuff directly; witness the Negitiveland fiasco where they attempted to leverage IP restrictions to keep independant or smaller labal bands from compeating).

    The bottom line is we need to kill SDMI. Making an example of this thing would have a very positive influence on future mp3 players. The people who buy protable mp3 players are geeks anyway, so we can spread the word and start an effective boycott.

    There is a link at the bottom of the page which helps you find dealer locations. I think we should all find the dealers in our area, print up a bunch of informative stickers about this product (mentioning that it may not play CDs you pay for in the future, the general nastiness of SDMI, etc.), and go stick them on the packages to warn customers about this.

    I supose it cold say something like this:

    WARNING: This is an SDMI compliant device. This means that this device will contin unessicary restrictions on your ability to play music. These restrictions may include limits on the kinds of downloadable music which is playable, restrictions on your ability to move digital music to another device (i.e. if you lose this one you may not be able to play the same digital music in a replacment device). The device may also contin additional restrictions which will only be activated at a later date such as preventing you from lissening to mp3s made from yeat to be released CDs. We highly recommend that you research the diffrences between this product and other protable mp3 player solutions before you spend any money.

    Jeff
  • I compose music, and wish to make CDs. I have an old track-at-once CD-R writer, though would want to buy a disc-at-once unit at some stage. Since I intend to use it for recording music of my own composition (and on which I own the copyright, not the Big 4 or the RIAA, damnit), I will be royally pissed off if I am prevented from doing this by those thieving corporate dogfsckers who purport to own all digitally encoded sound.

    There was an article on Wired about the troubles this guy had getting the burner to work with some Sony 4x burner, but there was a happy ending because the limitations were controled by the software, so he could just pay $50 for a diffrent commercial burning program that lacked these "features." This guy ran windows, so there is a good chance that the burner would work fine under Linux. I would still be careful and check out the burner on the various hardware guides.. and get a burner which you can return if it dose not meat your standards. I suppose a good way to check the quality of a burner is to do a bit-for-bit copy of a normal audio CD, do a bit-for-bit compairison, and give the copy to a friend for $1 to recoup your test media cost.. and complete the irony of being forced to pirate music by the RIAA.. :)

    I would hope that there is a web page someplace which trackes the crappy things the RIAA/MPAA get included in various products and gives consumers a good place to track down this stuff. If someone knows of such a page please post a link.

    Jeff

    BTW> If you are making music and involved with all this stuff then maybe you can answer a couple of questions:

    Is anyone currently selling advertising inside mp3s? It would seem to be a good way for musicians to make money, but you need a way to find companies who are willing to buy the space. You also need a way to push the mp3 with the ads on the comunity (maybe there is money in running a company which uploads mp3s to all the pirate sites). (That has got to be the greatest way to aviod piracy.. by make the pirates earn you money)

    Are there devices which allow you to burn large numbers of CDs efficently? I noticed that the RIAA pulls some nasty stunts with CDs plants which look like they are inmtended to make it more difficult for independant artists to print CDs (whitness the negitiveland incedent).

  • Do NOT buy this thing, it is SDMI Compliant (Score:3)

    by Weezul ( 52464 ) on Sunday February 06, 2000 @10:12AM (#1300872)
    Hey, CmdrTaco please add an update to the article mentioning the fact that this thing is SDMI compliant. I don't think any of us really want to be giving the SDMI people any money. Dose anyone know if SDMI compliant means it will not play mp3s from a water marked CD?

    I think we should try to make an example of this thing by hurting their sales. It would have a very positive influence on future mp3 players. The people who buy protable mp3 players are geeks anyway, so we can spread the word and start an effective boycott.

    There is a link at the bottom of the page which helps you find dealer locations. I think we should all find the dealers in our area, print up a bunch of informative stickers about this product (mentioning that it may not play CDs you pay for in the future, the general nastiness of SDMI, etc.), and go stick them on the packages to warn customers about this. I guess I need to come up with a concise list of problems with the product.

    Jeff
  • I'd be more interested if it weren't for the Mambo X P300 [mambox.com]. In case you've been living in a hole, the P300 is a portable CD player which can play Mp3 CDs (read the specs). They're $200, and now taking pre-orders.

    Now lets see:

    ~4 megs per MP3
    650 megs per CD
    650/4 = Thats about 162 songs per CD.
    Now there's about 15 tracks on the average CD.
    162/15 = Thats about 11 albums per CD.

    11 albums per CD!

    How can this 64 meg device even compete?
    Even by recompressing your mp3s at lower bitrates (bleh), you're fitting about 1 album on this device. Do you want to be able to listen to 11 albums or 1?

    The only legitimate arguement I can think of for buying Sony's device is it's small size. I personally don't find portable CD players too big. The P300 is even $100 cheaper.

    This sony device sounds nice, but I think solid state audio devices are still a while off.

  • MamboX P300. (Score:3)

    by prodeje ( 58779 ) on Sunday February 06, 2000 @09:51AM (#1300874)
    http://www.mambox.com/p300.htm [mambox.com]


    This device embodies everything that you just outlined. And they're taking pre-orders today!

  • Hey, if you follow the link through and read the description you will notice that one of the "features" is that it is an SDMI device.

    Don't buy SDMI devices unless you want to pay the same amount of money for your music, but have less flexibility in how you listen to it.
  • I suppose all the Linux, BeOS, and NT4 users are especially excited about the USB interface too, eh?
  • Just ordered one of these(preorder though). Not the pine one but a MamboX. Supports variable bit rate encoding and data rates up to 320kb/s. Playback for mp3's and audio cd's. Does work with cd-r's AND CD-RW's! Supposed to be shipping sometime February. Head on to their website [mambox.com] for more. And it even cost's less than this stick from sony.
  • Yep you heard me. I'm going on my Minidisc rant again. Go buy a minidisc recorder for $279, and 10 discs for $20, and you now have 20 hours of re-recordable music for the same price. The only thing that MP3 has over minidisc is the transfer times (takes an hour to record an hour's worth of music).

    And you don't have to worry about that SDMI thing.
  • I can see it now... AIBO + VAIO = Fun for the whole family.

    Human: Here AIBO... Come here... Ready?

    AIBO: Arf!

    Human: (Fling) Go get it! Fetch!

    AIBO: (Runs back with MP3-stick in mouth)

    Human: Good AIBO! Good Boy!

  • Oh great... (Score:4)

    by paulproteus ( 112149 ) <slashdot@ashees[ ]rg ['h.o' in gap]> on Sunday February 06, 2000 @08:49AM (#1300905) Homepage
    I was reading their web site and I found...

    "SDMI Compliant" in the flash presentation. Oh my.

    As we all know, the Secure Digital Music Initiative (Their site is at http://www.sdmi.org [sdmi.org]) can't do anything; anyone heard "bit-by-bit" before? And there's always those nice dummy wave-output audio devices....

    <sigh>

    Silly RIAA.


    I'm guessing though that Sony's player (due **Winter** 2000) won't be restricted to just SDMI; their web site seemed to make that reasonably clear.


  • You *can* make digital connections between a MD and a cd player or computer.You can use a TOSLink (plastic filber optic) or AES/BEU(a standard for digital output) on my deck.
    There are many different brands of players... sony must be atleast sharing some info.

    MD is a great format.
    ATRAC has a better sound quality and can be done in realtime by lower powered equipment.
    Plus soon youll have MD-Data .. 130mb of data to go
  • CNet had an article about a company called Pine that is comming out with a portable cd player that can play the mp3s from a CD. The CNET article is here:
    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-114511.html?t ag=st.cn.1.

    The only problem with the Pine SM-200C is that it's still not out. You can check out the company web site at:
    http://www.pineusa.com/mp3-cd.htm

    / drool The best thing of all is that it can even read CDR. / drool >
  • Sony 'MP3 player' cannot play MP3 files in its native format. The only format Sony player understands is their proprietory ATRAC3. Software which comes with Sony player allows conversion from MP3to ATRAC3, however there were some postings claiming that after the conversion the quality of sound noticably degrades. In addition, SDMI is a real pain-in-the-butt feature. I would rather go with a player capable of playing MP3, no SDMI, and may be Liquid Audio (*.lqt) format as an option.

  • What about Linux? (Score:3)

    by HenryC ( 147782 ) on Sunday February 06, 2000 @08:49AM (#1300932) Homepage
    The site says that 800x600 is required, as well as Windows 98. This implies that you need their program to send the music to the player. So does that mean that us linux users are again forced to find some kludge to make it work?

  • Non-Skip Technology? (Score:4)

    by aclaudet ( 148067 ) on Sunday February 06, 2000 @08:46AM (#1300933)
    The page says it has non-skip technology. Do other portable mp3 players skip?!?

    (I'm assuming that it's just some marketing person's way of saying "hey, mp3s don't skip like CDs")

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