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Post-it Notes vs. Copy-Inhibited CDs 843

Posted by timothy
from the look-forward-to-computer-yard-sales dept.
rjoseph writes "MacUser is running an article about how the new Celine Dion CD A New Day Has Come with copy protection mechanisms to prevent the CD from being played on a PC not only won't play on an iMac, but it will lock the CD tray (so it can't be removed) and fubar the firmware (so the machine can't be rebooted), effectivley killing the iMac. Ouch." We mentioned this interesting experiment in consumer relations last month as well, but now it's getting noticed a lot more. However, emkman writes: "What was first thought to be an April Fool's joke, now appears to be true. Some Audio CD protection schemes such as Cactus DATA Shield 100/200, KeyAudio, and perhaps others may be defeated by invalidating the outer ring of the CD with a black marker or post-it sticky note. www.chip.de has their report in German, here is a translation."
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Post-it Notes vs. Copy-Inhibited CDs

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  • by NETHED (258016) on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:50PM (#3513772) Homepage
    GO buy one now!! I want a new computer at their expense!
  • Oh no! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Villain (19081)
    Damnit, I was really looking forward to that new Celine CD too. Guess I'll have to spend my money on Aphex Twin instead.
  • Punishment (Score:2, Funny)

    by line-bundle (235965)
    They are just punishing you for listening to Celine Dion. YOu deserve it.
  • oh well... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by madcowherd (473162) on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:55PM (#3513795)
    they wonder why CD sales are down.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:56PM (#3513805)
    • by zzyzx (15139) on Monday May 13, 2002 @10:14PM (#3514269) Homepage
      "Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. "

      So not only is the computer broken because you didn't see the fine print and tried to play a cd in it, but you have to pay for the repairs.
      • So not only is the computer broken because you didn't see the fine print and tried to play a cd in it,

        No, it is broken because you tried to use a product designed to look like something useful (a trojan horse) but break your computer, sort of a hardware equivalent to a trojan horse. Imagine you plug in a monitor and immediately the big internal batteries deliver a huge voltage to your motherboard through the (onboard) video.

        but you have to pay for the repairs.

        What is certain is _apple_ does not have to pay for the repairs, as their product is not at fault. In the (farfetched) example above, would the computer or 'monitor' company have to pay?

  • Taking it too far (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Man of E (531031) <i.have@no.email.com> on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:56PM (#3513811)
    Seriously, breaking someone's machine intentionally is a bit excessive. Past copy-protection schemes were okay in my book because laymen couldn't get past them and people who bothered/could were in the minority: piracy prevention but without excess. But now the little laymen who don't bother reading the little warning labels are having their iMacs broken? This is affecting the luddites who don't know or care about p2p filesharing and buy all CDs and just assume they'll play in their CD players. Is the industry trying to alienate the people who still trusted it?
  • by Cynical_Dude (548704) on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:57PM (#3513814)
    ... what the correct way to treat a Celine Dion CD is. Summary of article: a.) Buy black marker b.) paint underside of CD completely black Next up: The correct way to treat your boy group cds. a.) Buy some acetone b.) ...
  • by Gaccm (80209) on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:57PM (#3513818)
    The soundtrack of Episode 2 seems to be protected in such a way also.
  • by Graspee_Leemoor (302316) on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:57PM (#3513819) Homepage Journal
    I tried to test this Celine Dion CD to see if it would get stuck in my iMac, but then I discovered to my horror that I couldn't get the Starcraft CD out of the drive. Must ... Quit ... Game ... and press ... Eject ... Muscles ... not ... responding...

    graspee

    P.S. This may have legal implications if my Starcraft CD starts downloading mp3s without my permission. (ha ha. sorry).

  • An analogy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TrumpetPower! (190615) <ben@trumpetpower.com> on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:57PM (#3513822) Homepage

    If someody were to develop some amazing new casette tape that didn't work on a subset of casette players, that would be okay. If that tape, instead, destroyed the player into which it was inserted by chewing up the playback heads, that would not be okay, even if it came with a label saying, ``Not for use on foo tape decks.''

    Celine has done the latter.

    b&

  • Legality? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by beefstu01 (520880) on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:57PM (#3513825)
    Ummm... isn't this illegal? If some iMac owner accidently puts one of these CD's in the drive and send the thing to kingdom come, didn't Sony just damage their computer with malicious intent? C'mon, Sony has to know that the CD's are going to do this. Can we say class action lawsuit? What's wrong with playing a cd in your computer? Sure, I've got MP3's, but I also play audio cd's on my laptop, and if my laptop gets busted becase one of these damn cds, then I'd frickin sue Sony and anybody connected to the deal for every dime they've got.

    Sony should realize that they're treading on very thin ice here. They need to realize that some people have very sensitive information on their computers, and if it gets f*$&# because of their cd protection scheme.....

    Sorry, but these dumb moves just irritate me
  • by schussat (33312) on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:58PM (#3513831) Journal
    Are we to understand that post-it notes and sharpie pens are now contraband circumvention devices? 3M is not going to like this, not one bit.

    -schussat

    • by qslack (239825) <qslack@@@pobox...com> on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:12PM (#3513910) Homepage Journal
      Are we to understand that post-it notes and sharpie pens are now contraband circumvention devices? 3M is not going to like this, not one bit.


      Actually, 3M is embracing this new product direction.

      They have renamed their Post-It product line to Toast-It, making a clear reference to burning, or "toasting," a CD-R.

      They have also renamed their popular Sharpie line of permanent markers to "Share-pie," indicating that the markers will enable purchasers to share music.

      :)
    • by Jester99 (23135)
      Are we to understand that post-it notes and sharpie pens are now contraband circumvention devices? 3M is not going to like this, not one bit.

      You know, that just might be the ticket. Is there a way to tell a District Attourney that he should bring suit against somebody for illegal activity? Tip off the DA that 3M is marketting items which may be used as circumvention devices.

      3M will bring in their lawerly guns blazing, and will throw lots of corporate resources at smacking on DMCA; we get our precident by making big business do our fighting for us.

      Can something like this work this way?

      (As a manufacturer of floppy disks, e.g., media which would be forced to have circumvention protection systems built in if CDTBPA (Is that the right 'nym?), etc, are passed, I'm sure that 3M is interested in getting rid of these laws...)
  • Unbelievable (Score:4, Insightful)

    by teslatug (543527) on Monday May 13, 2002 @08:59PM (#3513834)
    No not the fact that the CD can break firmware, but the fact that the firmware can be broken by a CD.
  • by mprindle (198799) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:01PM (#3513850)
    Hello all,

    Apple has released KnowledgeBase Article #106882, Cannot Eject Copy Protected Audio Disc [apple.com], to adress the problem with the cd's getting locked into the drive.

    "You may be unable to eject certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not. Some computers start up to a gray screen after a copy protected disc has been left in the computer."
    • by imadork (226897) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:06PM (#3513877) Homepage
      Yeah, it's the fine print on the bottom that's priceless:

      CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage.

      How do you like them apples?

      • by znu (31198)
        Why should Apple pay if Sony breaks your computer?
  • How? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Gaccm (80209) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:07PM (#3513880)
    How could a CD screw up the player? All the CDROM does is read bits off of a CD. The data should not be able to alter the program (in this case firmware) at all. The only way i could see something happening is if the firmware was poorly writtian and the CD causes stack overflows.
    • Re:How? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by mstyne (133363)
      From the Apple Knowledge Base:

      You may be unable to eject certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not.

      The point here is that these *aren't* CD's. It may look like a CD, smell like a CD, and quack like a CD, but these -things- don't conform to the Compact Disc standard. If they're still putting a Compact Disc logo on these things, I think consumers have a right to be torqued.
      • Re:How? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by mpe (36238)
        The point here is that these *aren't* CD's. It may look like a CD, smell like a CD, and quack like a CD, but these -things- don't conform to the Compact Disc standard. If they're still putting a Compact Disc logo on these things, I think consumers have a right to be torqued.

        Or, regardless of the logo, if retailers are selling them as regular CDs or even intermingled with CDs.
  • by AcidDan (150672) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:16PM (#3513937) Homepage
    I was also reading on spymac.com that you can get around this with a nikko pen, but what I really want to say is what a precedent this sets for corporations:

    We will intentionally cause damage to your property because you did not try to play this in an authorised CD player

    I think all those affected now (and more probably in the future with CDs other than Celine) should send a nice happy bill to the corporations that produce these CDs...

    Not being a legal person, how can a disclaimer cover something designed to intentionally cripple hardware? Sure you can say in a disclaimer that "it *may* do blah blah blah" but that's a whole lot different to "If you have X this CD is designed to damage this hardware"

    ... And I also doubt that the disclaimer is in a very prominent position either...

    As someone who buys CDs and owns an iBook, I'm not looking forward to the day I pop in a decent CD I've just bought (sorry, Celine fans) I don't want to discover that I can't get the damn thing out of my lappy easily...

    -- Dan >:(
  • New Names (Score:5, Funny)

    by Angram (517383) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:17PM (#3513942)
    We obviously can't call this Celine Dion product a "CD"...We're going to need a new term to denote CD-imposters...Lets see...

    CC - Crash Circle
    "CD" - Quote-Compact Disk-Unquote
    ICD - Imposter Compact Disk
    FD - Fool's Disk
    ID - Incompatible Disk
    SF - Sony Frisbee
    CC - Celine Coaster
    MW3 - Mommy, Why Won't it Work?
    RCD - Record Companies Downfall
    18POS - $18 Piece Of Sh*t
    SLS - Sony's Last Stand
    PD - Poo Disk

    Any suggestions?
  • Where the two Aliens come down and wear a Bob Dole and Bill Clinton outfit and run for presidency.

    As I'm sure everyone remembers, the aliens are found out but then say something to the effect of "What are you going to do about it with a two party system." And so they elect one of the aliens...

    Moral of the story: If you don't like copy protection, don't buy the damn cds! It's that simply.
  • What to do (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ocie (6659) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:18PM (#3513948) Homepage
    Go out and buy one of these CDs. Take it into a computer store. Try it out in a computer.

    When it gets stuck, try to get help from the sales people, but try to do it with a straight face, OK? Now you will probably have to leave it there, but make sure you talk to the highest up manager before you do.

    Research on the internet how to eject the disk and come back the next day to get it.

    This might work best if you bought the CD in the same store.
  • by A Commentor (459578) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:19PM (#3513951) Homepage
    Lets see... if I buy a CD, it might screw-up my computer... but if I download the same mp3s, I don't have to worry about it messing up my computer...

    The music publishers are giving people incentives to NOT BUY CDs...

    • by jdreed1024 (443938) on Monday May 13, 2002 @10:01PM (#3514191)
      >Lets see... if I buy a CD, it might screw-up my
      >computer... but if I download the same mp3s, I
      >don't have to worry about it messing up my
      >computer...

      Very true. So more people are going to download MP3s. Then, 6 or 9 or 12 months later the RIAA comes back and says: "Look at this! CD sales have dropped even more, and pirated MP3 downloads have increased. We told you that we needed better copy protection. Maybe _now_ you'll believe was when we say that we need hardware copy protection." Congress will say, "We're terribly sorry - we'll never doubt you again. We'll force the CBDTPA/SSSCA/whatever it will be called through right now. Take that, pirates!".

      To combat this, people should go find these CDs, and (assuming they don't have labels stating they can't be used in a computer); buy them; attempt to play them; and then return them. Then the RIAA can't say sales have decreased, and hopefully, someone, somewhere (other than geeks) will realize that copy protection on CDs simply isn't going to work.

      What about these allegations of crappy sound? Has anyone tried returning a CD because it sounded like shit (because of the audio data itself, not the content) Did they accept the return?
  • "MacUser is running an article about how the new Celine Dion CD A New Day Has Come with copy protection mechanisms to prevent the CD from being played on a PC not only won't play on an iMac, but it will lock the CD tray (so it can't be removed) and fubar the firmware (so the machine can't be rebooted), effectivley killing the iMac."

    Somewhere a 4th Grade English teacher is crying, and doesn't know why.
  • by fatalist23 (534463) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:25PM (#3513985)
    how horrible, dying with Celine Dion in your mouth! *shudder*
  • by prisoner-of-enigma (535770) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:26PM (#3513993) Homepage
    HOLLYWOOD, CALIFORNIA - May 13, 2002 - RIAA TEAMS UP WITH MPAA TO URGE BAN OF "SHARPIE" STYLE MARKERS.

    Local busineses were shocked today when all 2.5 million office supply stores were simultaneously served with a cease and desist order from the RIAA and MPAA banning the sale of any type of felt tip marker. Lobbyists for the media industry successfully bribed and/or threatened a number of local politician, who in turn passed legislation banning the manufacture, sale, or possession of any device on grounds that it violates the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.

    "This is a great day for freedom in this country", stated I. P. Freely, chairman of the House Committee On Media Graft and Campaign Finance. "No longer will reckless hoodlums and terrorist be able to hold our great media industries down! Already these 'media terrorists' have been implicated in causing a downturn in music sales, a deepening of the U.S. recession, balding, impotence, and dandruff. These terrorists are a threat to the very foundation of this nation. Have I said terrorist enough yet? Terrorist terrorist terrorist!"

    A small group of bewildered secretaries and office workers were rounded up by jackbooted thugs and herded into "terrorist containment vehicles" (which resemble black vans) as they went into office supply stores in downtown L.A. to buy Sharpies. "Obviously these media terrorists were bent on destroying Sony Music with these devices", said one S.W.A.T. team captain as he twirled a Sharpie in front of cameras. "Don't worry folks", he said, "you're safe now."

    When interviewed on the street, many people expressed delight at the actions of the MPAA and RIAA.

    "I'm so glad that these hideous terr'rist folks have been rounded up", says Eva Beaver. "Who knows what they might've blown up with their terror weapons. Next it could be planes slamming into buildings!"

    Opposition to this new law is expected to be light, say prominent Washington lawmakers. Naysayers will be rounded up and shot on sight, further adding to the desire to keep people from pirating music and movies with felt tip pens.

    Spokesmen for Sanford, the company that manufactures the Fully Automatic Terrorist Media Stealing Assault Weapon (formerly known as a Sharpie Marker) could not be reached following a disastrous fire and explosion at every single one of their manufacturing plants.
  • by jmv (93421) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:28PM (#3514004) Homepage
    My mother bought the new Celine Dion CD (I've been trying to convince her to take it back for not being a "real CD"). I put it in my PC just to test it. The funny think is that the CDROM won't play it as a audio CD. However, I tried cdparanoia and I can rip it without any problem... I guess it's just another case of a "copy-protection" technology prevent legal use (like watching DVD under Linux), while failing at preventing what it's designed to prevent (you can do a mirror copy of a DVD without decrypting it).
  • by LittleRibbon (579291) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:29PM (#3514006) Homepage
    It's all about the companies getting greedy. Instead of 'losing' a few dollars on the price of each CD, they spend thousands to get the CD 'guarded'. Completely ridiculous, and a result of greed in our society.

    Then there's the junk going on about them safeguarding the CD's so they can't be played on a computer. Personally, I'm not the richest person around, and I can't afford a CD player seperate from the computer. I lodged my money into this thing about two years ago, and continue to do so, thinking "Hey, I can play my CD's on here, and write my papers, etc., rather than drive up the electric bill (damned prices last year for electricity...) with two seperate Watt-Guzzelers, as I call them. So, I saved some money there, right?

    I ended up buying a few cds the other day, after listening to them on the radio. I pop in the Lord of the Rings OST, remembering fondly the music that scared me in the movie, and waited for it to load. Instead of my lovely music, I get a webpage with a bunch of ads I don't want, and no auto-start on the music. So, naturally, I checked to see if the files were missing or something. Sure enough, they've been 'protected' against use on a computer. So, I wasted $18, and I still haven't listened to the thing once.

    Now, they're making the computers crash on us, just for fear of 'stealing' their 'hard earned songs' (even though most of them are just rewrites of old classics). Next thing you know, they'll ban CD-Roms. --;
  • by dpbsmith (263124) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:29PM (#3514008) Homepage
    Apple Knowledge Base article #106882 confirms the problem with "certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not," and says Apple will not pay for repairs even if you have a service contract.

    http://kbase.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/k ba se.woa/116/wa/query?searchMode=Expert&type=id&val= KC.106882

    The note suggests a number of things you can "try" or "attempt" which "may" solve the problem.

    The telling part is the last paragraph:

    "If a disc with copyrighted protection technology remains inside the drive after following the procedures above, or if the computer does not start up normally, it is recommended that you contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) or Apple Technical Support. CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility."
    • by Chris Johnson (580) on Monday May 13, 2002 @10:33PM (#3514360) Homepage Journal
      Hey, I actually like this.

      Slashdot geeks can rant and rave all they want about these horrible booby-trapped 'discs', but the outside world must respond for anything to happen- either endorsing the legitimacy of the 'discs' or rejecting it.

      Well, this is a start.

      Playing these things on an iMac means basically voiding the warranty. If, God knows how, the corrupted and intentionally damaging 'disc' manages to actually kill the iMac, Apple says it is your fault for trying to put booby-trapped, intentionally destructive junk in the machine!

      This is a GOOD thing, and I hope other computer manufacturers do likewise. I wouldn't have believed that such a thing could kill an iMac, but note this: iMacs ARE BOOTABLE FROM CD. It seems possible that these 'discs' could contain something like a boot sector, to trick the machine into trying to boot off the 'disc' and then munging its BIOS. Viruses have been able to do stuff like that for years and years- this is simply the first time the RIAA has made a concerted effort to destroy people's computers.

      Apple cannot possibly take responsibility for this. They're doing the right thing- staring in shock, and then quickly announcing, "We will not be held responsible for interoperating with THIS BULLSHIT!"

      I say support Apple for this stance, don't criticise them. Or do you feel that computer manufacturers should now be held responsible for maintaining interoperability with VIRUSES?

  • .....the Celine Dion CDs came with an iTunes upgrade [slashdot.org]?
  • by eggstasy (458692) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:31PM (#3514018) Journal
    How can these idiots somehow assume that everyone has a stereo or some form of computer-independent CD player? You wouldnt believe how small a percentage of my friends actually plays their CDs on a stereo. Why, I once foresaw the death of stereos altogether: Why spend a boatload of cash on a huge machine that can do exactly one thing (play CDs - radio sux, tapes are dead, LPs are deader), when you can do the same with your PC?
    Why have a TV/Stereo/DVD/VCR/whatever when you can have it all in your PC?
    Ah, wait, if you spend a boatload of cash on huge, clunky, technologically outdated devices such as a TV or a 1x CD player, Big Business is happy. And since the government is just for show and it's actually BB who's running the place, the "consumers" really have no choice - fork over your cash time and time again, or live like a peasant in the Dark Ages, with no comfort at all.
    I'm sick of this. Where do I point my gun at to get my God-given rights?
    Since they're all trying to label us as terrorists I say shoot the bastards and earn the title!

  • by pinkpineapple (173261) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:36PM (#3514044) Homepage
    You need to restart the system and just after the chime, leave the mouse button pressed until the media gets ejected. No manual way but a work around for people who like me got cought with the soundtrack of Episode 2.

    PPA, the girl next door
  • by flacco (324089) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:40PM (#3514069)
    You never know - a babelfish translation deficiency could result in instructions like:

    "Then schtick ze blow torchen up your assen-holen, and ge-crank that mutterfikken all ze way uppen-leder-hosen."

  • by B.D.Mills (18626) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:41PM (#3514071)
    The music companies are quietly removing the CD logo from some of these controversial copy-protected CD's because they do not conform to the Red Book standard.

    So here's a way we can fight back. When you are buying your CD's, always insist on CD's bearing the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo.

    This does two things:
    * Any copy-protected disc that bears the CD logo may be in technical breach of some law, such as misleading and deceptive marketing, and you can possibly sue the store and record company on those grounds (IANAL) or make a formal complaint to some regulatory body such as the FTC.

    * It lets the store know that there are people who prefer genuine CD's instead of that crippled copy-protected rubbish. Once you buy the CD, it's your right to do with it as you please, provided you do not infringe on the copyright owners' rights to redistribute the music.
  • by sheldon (2322) on Monday May 13, 2002 @09:54PM (#3514138)
    Look, don't play the music industry game. Don't bother to figure out how to defeat the copy protection that just makes them try harder.

    Just don't buy the CDs.

    Or better yet, buy them, open them, then take them back to the store and complain that they don't work. If the store will only offer an exchange, take the exchange and bring that one back too. Just keep doing this until they learn that they do not work.

    The stores can't put them back on the shelves, they have to ship them back to the distributor. I guarantee you when 25% of their stock comes back defective, someone is going to start to notice what a really bad idea this is.

    Hmm, I work right next door to a Best Buy. I could buy and return a CD every day for lunch. Might be kind of fun.

  • by Colz Grigor (126123) on Monday May 13, 2002 @10:05PM (#3514214) Homepage
    I am reminded of my teenage days of punching notches into the side of 5 1/4" disks with a hole punch...

    Magic markers to avert copy protection schemes... I love low-tech solutions to high-tech problems.

    ::Colz Grigor
  • by sconeu (64226) on Monday May 13, 2002 @10:05PM (#3514220) Homepage Journal

    In A.D. 2002, War was beginning.
    Mac Hacker: What happen?
    User: Somebody set us up the Celine Dion Not-CD
    Programmer: We get signal
    Mac Hacker: What!
    Programmer: Main Screen turn on
    Mac Hacker: It's You!
    R.O.S.E.N.: How are you gentlemen?
    R.O.S.E.N.: All your CD-ROM drive are belong to us.
    R.O.S.E.N.: You are on the way to destruction
    Mac Hacker: What you say?!?!
    R.O.S.E.N.: You have no chance to hack make your time
    R.O.S.E.N.: HA HA HA HA....
    Mac Hacker: Take off every Not-CD
    Mac Hacker: You know what you doing
    Mac Hacker: Remove Not-CD
    Mac Hacker: For great justice

  • by sholton (85051) on Monday May 13, 2002 @10:20PM (#3514299)
    So, if I create something that resembles a CD, but really just uses the CD format to carry a harmful digital payload to damage your system, I'm just an artist protecting my rights.

    but...

    If I create something that resembles an email message, but really just uses the email message format to carry a harmful digital payload to damage your system, I'm just an evil hacker who's likely to be spending time in prison.

    Yup. Makes sense to me.

    • They find the line distant up to two centimeters from the outside edge. Draw now with the pin a tangential line, which covers the dividing line accurately, into which outside range project, but does not affect the last audio TRACK. A sticking tire helps as ruler.

      Try the result out. If it did not fold, the line covers either the dividing line not completely or lies over the last audio trace - here geht's around tenths of a millimeter. Then you wipe away to the pro copying bars with a damp speed and correct after.

    I followed these directions and my Celine Dion disk is now stuck in a tire heading east on I-10 at about 75 mph. I feel better already.
  • by gotan (60103) on Monday May 13, 2002 @11:29PM (#3514628) Homepage
    I mean, they can be used as circumvention devices to copy protected digital content, so the DMCA should apply, no?
  • by Millennium (2451) on Tuesday May 14, 2002 @12:33AM (#3514860) Homepage
    Every time you listen to a copy-protected CD...
    Celine Dion kills an iMac.
    Please, think of the iMacs.
  • by Xepherys2 (174396) <xepherys@nOsPAM.xepherys.net> on Tuesday May 14, 2002 @12:43AM (#3514896) Homepage
    I see many conflicts of interest here...

    First of all, Sony begins using this copy-protection scheme by forcing it's children-companies to begin putting it on their "CD"s. This is apparently an attempt to prevent ripping of said "CD" tracks into MP3 or other digital media files. On the other hand, Sony is one of the larger companies who are currently making hardware to play "legitimate" MP3s, such as the Sony MP505 mini-disc MP3 players, and others.

    Now, how does one go about using their Sony MP505 to play MP3s from their new Sony-parented "CD"? I mean, I understand that the MP3 players are just to jump into a market where money is to be had, but still, this seems like a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing.

    First of all, as has been stated many-a-time, the patent holder of TRUE CDs should sue the pants off of companies that are creating discs that do not conform to standards, but still market them as CDs. Perhaps the official CD logo is not there on many of these CDs, but do the record labels make any statement that these are not truly Compact Discs?

    What other devices might these not work in? Some items made for the computer-oriented user that has a more CD-ROM style interface than a standard CD interface? What about MP3 players that use CD media to play MP3s, but also can play audio CDs? What about a device like my Apex AD-3201. that uses a very standard DVD-ROM drive attached via an ATAPI interface to a decoder? If not these discs, will others that are soon to follow cause problems here as well?

    Perhaps I am not technically inclined enough with color book standards to understand what causes the current problems in iMacs, and why there may not be other problems here and there... but I know enough to be mildly concerned about this.

    If someday I purchase Star Wars Episode II on DVD and pop it into my Apex (with region encoding and Macrovision turned off), and my DVD and mainboard firmware become damaged... I'm going to be particularly upset.

    Does anyone have a webpage up yet that lists not only known discs with this protection, but also known devices, SPECIFICALLY, which will fail and how? Just curious if maybe the full impact has not yet been felt or noticed.

    -Xepherys
  • by msaulters (130992) on Tuesday May 14, 2002 @03:24AM (#3515587) Homepage
    With all this talk about how these CD's are not "CD"'s, it strikes me that a store selling them couldn't properly call itself a "CD" store. I think, perhaps retailers should separate these from the other, proper, CDDA discs.

    A warning on the packaging and on the disc itself is insufficient for two reasons that I can see: 1) It would NEVER occur to the average consumer (who's only just figured out that thing isn't a cup-holder) that not only is a CD not a CD, but that it could 'break' their computer. Yes, I've seen the explanations that the hardware isn't really broken, but we ALL know that the average user isn't technically aware, and things must be kept VERY simple.

    Reason #2) The packaging is not always available. I just hopped over to CDNOW, and there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER on the page to indicate this is not a CDDA disc. It is listed in two formats: CD and Tape (and the CD is still more expensive than cassette, go figure)

    Knowing that retailers are extremely unlikely to provide this service any time soon, may I humbly propose we create a CDNOT.com to catalog all these unplayable discs, and make a plugin available that will warn you, should you attempt to purchase one?
  • by pyramid termite (458232) on Tuesday May 14, 2002 @08:25AM (#3516359)
    ... to tell me, please, whether writing on a copy protected CD with a black marker really works? My God, one of the main points of this story has hardly been addressed, except to make jokes about banning post it notes and markers. I guess people are too busy flaming record companies and Apple to address something constructive.

    I'm sorry, but people are posting a lot of drivel here and I'm getting tired of it. Mod me into oblivion for saying this, but one of the main points of this story remains unexamined.

    What's up with that?

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