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The Matrix Media Movies

Review: Matrix: Reloaded 1294

Posted by michael
from the turtles-all-the-way-down dept.
PsndCsrV writes in with a review of the new Matrix movie, below. Rottentomatoes says that the reviews overall are more favorable than un-. Ebert likes it well enough.

PsndCsrV writes:

Due to some fortunate circumstances, I was able to partake of the Matrix goodness ahead of the release. Overall, I thought the movie was excellent, but there were some issues (for me, at least) that kept it from being spectacular. It's definitely worth seeing, and if you're worried about it not being that good, go see a matinee screening and skip the popcorn. ;-) It is a blatant cliffhanger, though, so if that drives you nuts, you better just wait until November. Keep reading for a more in depth look, and I'll try not to let any spoilers slip.

The special effects were great. I personally didn't see anything totally revolutionary in them... it seems like most of it was simply "bullet time", but more refined, utilizing CG where cameras don't make it. Only a couple of times did I feel that the CG wasn't quite right, and even then it wasn't due to the impossibility of the action. It was mostly due to a character's arms/legs/hair/clothes that didn't move 100% naturally during a stunt, which is definitely difficult to get right. There was only a couple instances in 1 scene that come to mind immediately, so the effects people did an excellent job.

One of the main criticisms of the first Matrix was the lack of character development. Well, I won't lie to you... there's not a whole lot of character development in this one either. There was more, but not for any of the main characters really. A little more insight into Morpheus's life, a new take on the Oracle, the introduction of some new characters, and the whole thing going on with Agent Smith. But there are still a lot of gaps in the characters, but Reloaded does make you feel like you're starting to understand things better, and that the next movie will be very enlightening.

One of the best after-effects of the first Matrix was the way it made you question your own take on reality. It really made you wonder what's real, and what's not. What's important to me, and what's not. Or maybe I was just being overly philosophical about it. Reloaded really does a good job of leaving you questioning, but this time, you're speculating about the movie and where it will head... how things will be resolved. Reloaded ends with many loose ends, and many questions unanswered, but at the same time, it's an excellent opportunity to speculate. I definitely want to see Revolutions now, and it's a good thing I only have to wait 6 months.

The movie also flowed well. I didn't ever feel like a scene was put in "just because", except once. I personally felt that the love scene between Neo and Trinity was a little overboard, and that a lot more could have been said with a much more subtle approach. Intermixed with this, were shots of the people of Zion having a wild dance party/orgy. Ok, so the orgy was implied with the whole sexual nature of the dance scene. I couldn't help but relate it to Herbert's Fremen spice orgy in Dune, except without the spice. It struck me as the same type of situation.

To sum it up, I really enjoyed it. My only big complaint was the love scene, but I am a conservative person. Other people will undoubtedly love the movie just for that scene. The rest of the movies was great, and definitely sets up Revolutions as a must see.

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Review: Matrix: Reloaded

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  • by jafo (11982) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:08AM (#5962183) Homepage
    Tell me, Mister Coward, what good is a reply button if you are unable to type?

    Sean
  • by GozerBrothers (637555) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:10AM (#5962187)
    Just saw MATRIX RELOADED on opening night. The theater was packed, despite multiple showings -- 10, 10:10, 10:30... The audience seemed to greatly enjoy the movie.

    The action was as good as advertised. The actors acquited themselves well. As expected, CGI was greatly improved from the original, particularly for the "real world" shots.

    BUT... the movie didn't make much sense -- it was kind of like USUAL SUSPECTS, but without the basis in reality on which to grab hold.

    Go see it... but don't expect to understand it until you see the third one, too.
    • I dunno, I thought it all made perfect sense. Even the ending they leave with us makes a great deal of sense. The question is of course. Once Neo realizes the truth, what is the truth? We don't get to find out for six months.
    • by Stubtify (610318) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:19AM (#5962233)
      I felt it made a lot of sense. The story delves even deeper into what is the matrix (remember www.whatisthematrix.com) and comes out the other end with a great explination for everything we just watched for the last hour and a half (I'll leave the spoilers up to someone else). Just that there are a lot of questions like what happenes to the matrix now? or what happened to it? what happens to zion, etc.

      I feel that the cliffhanger is great, keeps me wanting more, and asking what's next. I don't want to give anything else away, but I thought it was funny that every girl I talked to at the theatre left asking a million questions and not understanding and all the guys were just like "damn that was the shit"

    • by Mephie (582671) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @09:21AM (#5963330) Homepage
      Aren't these matrix kids essentially able to do "superhuman" stuff in the matrix because they realize what's going on and can put their mind beyond it? This is of course generalized, but if I remember correctly, that's basically the gist.

      If that's the case, couldn't the machines just write better code? Like say, slap together a couple of simple booleans and add in a line like this (with better formatting) in main():

      if (ishuman(mynum) && isrestricted(action)) {
      dontallow();
      }

      One would think that'd pretty well patch up the matrix. It could be The Matrix - Service Pack One. Am I right? Maybe I need to see the movie again, but honestly, I'd rather not. If someone can help me out with this concept I'd appreciate it.

  • by sweetooth (21075) * on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:12AM (#5962193) Homepage
    of this release is not having Revolutions waiting right there for you to see. They could have lined up 90% of the people from that theatre and herded us into the next theatre emtpying our wallets as we went.

    While the ending is not surprising it certainly leaves you wanting to see the rest of the story. I personally didn't notice any cg mistakes, but I usually don't until my second viewing of a film unless they are just glaring mistakes.

    The main flaws with the movie are a slow start that really does little to develop the characters. If they wanted to break from the constant action for that purpose they didn't do the best job. I heard several people in the theatre complain about the somewhat technical dialog that takes place in the movie. That was no big deal to me as it all made perfect sense, but I could see how others might not like it or pick up on it. Then again I laughed out loud when I saw the terminal with ssh 10.2.2.2 on it ;)
    • by jsse (254124) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:22AM (#5962247) Homepage Journal
      laughed out loud when I saw the terminal with ssh 10.2.2.2 on it ;)

      That's what pissed Matrix - encrypted session that it can't spy on - damn hackers.

      Only one thing that could stop them from hiding themselves in encrypted channels, and that'd be the major theme of next sequel - Matrix - Super DMCA
    • by ender81b (520454) * <billd@inebra[ ].com ['ska' in gap]> on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:34AM (#5962298) Homepage Journal
      Yeah that cracked me up as well. Also if you watched really close you would've noticed them using something like "ssh v1 exploit (something)" to haxx0r into the computer. Really nifty IMHO.

      And man ....

      SPOILERS BEEP BEEP BEEP SPOILERS BEEP BEEP BEEP

      SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

      All me and my friends can figure out is that they are trapped inside a matrix within a matrix AND neo went on the EXACT COURSE THE MACHINES WANTED HIM ON! It makes perfect sense when you think about it, which is why it is probably wrong.

      Yeah Neo (and every other human, even Zion) is still trapped inside the matrix. Reasons? Well let's think about it. They targeted and destroyed one of the hovercraft JUST so Trinity would have to go out and get the power shut off. Two, they showed him the pictures of trinity dying to entice him to go out the other door back into the matrix. Three, Neo was able to destroy those sentinels by THOUGHT outside the Matrix. Four, Neo can see the future. Five, Agent Smith was able to transfer his consciousness into the 'real world'. I don't see how this is possible (I mean a computer program mapping itself to the human synapses?) unless Zion or the 'real world' is actually the matrix. Agents can take over people by 'overwriting' them - in the matrix . Why can Neo see the future... well just like the oracle because *has has already lived it!*

      I also think I understand why they alllow Neo to exist and return again and again (besides fixing a flaw). it sets humanity on a predictable course and allows them to control it and fulfills the human need for hope and choice. A messiah, prophecy, etc. Maybe in the first design they had no idea about Neo but now they do and can deal with him, obviously. Destroying him would give rise to perhaps somebody else, some other Messiah who might just succeed in destroying the matrix. It also makes sense for there to be Matrix's inside the Matrix like layers of an onion. After all you can manipulate an entire world, why not make multiple layers?

      They said 1% of the population won't accept the matrix. That 1% is given an outlet - to Zion another matrix. That way they can't corrupt or influence the other 99%. Logically, allowing a real human city to exist would be a *very bad no good idea* since they might - jsut might - come up with a weapon or something else that could actually kill the machines. So it makes sense that instead of allowing a real city they make a fake one. Zion also might have different rules and levels of control than the Matrix which allows for people to not understand what is really going on - i.e. they are still in the matrix. Even the idea of 'bending the rules of the computer program' allows for them to take a sample of the human population that doesn't like rules and allow them to break them in ways the machines can control and manipulate.

      It is also plausible that the whole idea of humans as 'batteries' is simply a 'red herring' to through humans off the real course of why they are kept around. Perhaps if they figured out THAT they would be able to hurt the machines.

      I simply can't wait for the next movie. A really cool ending, much like 1984, would have neo simply fullfilling his purpose, waking up the next generation to live in 'Zion' and telling them he will return and then just replaying the first scene of the orginal Matrix. No hope, despair, etc. But interesting ending nonetheless.

      Whew. Good movie.

      ---- END SPOILER END SPOILER END SPOILER END SPOILER END SPOILER END SPOILER ---
      • by phoenix123 (547397) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @07:28AM (#5962610) Journal
        Methinks these layered Matrices that resemble an onion skin could be more of a kind of security system.

        Overly philosophically speaking, it may be, that the machines have no possibility to really innovate. (Which is why they just copied the 20th century for the "inner" matrix...) It could be, that because they have no soul, they are unable to get ahead their creators, the humans. (Slightly shown by Morpheus, who told Neo, that he could beat them all because they are restricted by fundamental physics.)

        So if the machines have no real chance of keeping the humans captured, IF these humans really want to escape. (Fitting in to the notion of the film, that everything is possible if we believe in it) the layers of the matrix are like a rendundant system. The humans can break out of every matrix if they just try hard enough, so it is only logical to implement a kind of fall-back-option for this 1% escapists. The "next" matrix seems like the real world to those and so you break their will to escape further, just because they think they've already done so. It gives you some time to catch these before they find out the "real" depth of the "rabbit hole".

        If each matrix catches 99% of the population, you only need x matrices to catch all and to reduce escape probabilities to near-zero. Plus, it adds the ability to bend the outer matrices in case of an emergency or updates without touching the inner ones much like the layer models of our computer models. (Think of OSI-layers)

        This was thought before in one of the famous StarTrek - Next Generation episodes called "Ship in a bottle" where the Enterprise crew creates a virtual Enterprise with a virtual holodeck within another virtual holodeck of another virtual Enterprise (all within the "real" holodeck of course) to fool Moriarty.

        And it was reality some centuries ago when cities and castles were surrounded by walls. The biggest ones had multiple walls around them, one to slow attackers down and one to kill the slowed invaders down one by one. Rich castles had then multiple "walled cells" of space within the inner wall, so any attacker had to breach wall after wall to get to the kings chamber or water reservoir. If they did not forget to close the "Kerkaporta", they'd be safe...
        • I left the movie with one thought:

          chroot

          Think about it, they rebels are always looking for their "exit"

        • by cliffmeece (653677) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @12:37PM (#5965230)
          Well, take it one step farther and assume that the 'true' real world is not a bad place run by machines keeping human bodies in stasis at all. Assume that the true 'programmers' are external to the Matrix and to zion and they're ultimate goal is to 'help' Neo. Neo is then essentially a computer program that is underging multiple iterations until it achieves perfection. In six tries they have only seen slight improvement. That is why the the Architect says he himself is irrellevant. Only Neo matters. We hear that again and again from various characters like the oracle.

          In this sense the story is a retelling of genesis with Neo as Adam. Agent smith is Lucifer. God's first but failed attempt to create sentience. Trinity is Eve. The architect says that a female stumbled upon the solution and we are led to believe it was theOracle but it seemed to me that the architect dismissed that notion. Perhaps the female that 'stumbled upon it' was Trinity.

          Adam (Neo) is the next generation and is envied by Smith, who has been cast out from heaven ( matrix).

          The architect is just another construct in the system to continue Neo on his regenerative cycle of improvement. When Neo finally realizes this loop, he might obtain a trancendance to the 'next level'

          Think of it like this: what happens if some AI guys get together and they want to create artificial intelligence with free will, self determination, emotion.

          Maybe the true creators are just humans running a big simulation designed to eventually produce a sentient life form with free will, self determination, emotions, etc. It had failed 5 times until Trinity stumbled upon the solution: Love.

      • by worst_name_ever (633374) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @08:13AM (#5962844)
        SPOILERS BEEP BEEP BEEP SPOILERS BEEP BEEP BEEP

        ...and then, like, half the plot twists were gone. And I was like, hunh? It was a really good movie. And then I had to watch it again but I knew the ending so it wasn't as good.

      • Also if you watched really close you would've noticed them using something like "ssh v1 exploit (something)" to haxx0r into the computer.

        Interestingly, yesterday someone posted a comment with a link to an "exclusive shot from the movie" [slashdot.org], but no one save an AC responded. In fact, it was modded down offtopic. I bit, however, and to my surprise while watching to movie, I discovered it was real! [fuxoft.cz]

        Anyway, the shot is the same as the ssh exploit as you were mentioning ...

    • by lingqi (577227) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:35AM (#5962301) Journal
      I personally didn't notice any cg mistakes, but I usually don't until my second viewing of a film unless they are just glaring mistakes.

      Remember the 1000px trailer a while back on /.? anyway, in the scene where all the Agent Smith(es) bum-rush Neo, you can see (frame-step helps) some Smith stuck their whole hands into other Smith's backs - and this happened on several occasions.

      No it was not easy to spot, but it is *possible*. Anyhow I am not saying it ruins the experience in any way, but for 100 million dollars on special effects along, I'd figure that they checked for stuff like that.

      • by sweetooth (21075) * on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:46AM (#5962341) Homepage
        You are probably right that there are definatly cg mistakes, but it's a bit hard to tell on the big screen playing at full speed. I also think the other people in the audience might have kicked my ass if I had asked the projectionist to show it to us slow enough that we could catch those errors ;)
      • Oh, I also just thought of something. There is a scene where Neo intentionally places his hand inside of Trinity to help her. There are also plenty of instances of Smith doing the same to other people. It is possible that the scene you metnion wasn't fussed over as you might come to the realization that it is possible for one entity to pass through another in the matrix as the rules can be broken. Look at the two wraith like guys that move through other objects as another example.
      • In the fight in the playground, where Neo 1st meets the swarm of Agents Smiths, the texture mapping and bluring for the Smiths were just off. Also, their perspective when flying away after being hit by the pole was also lacking somehow.

        I think they got the idea right in Star Wars with Yoda, you just can't properly animate CG at high speed.... not with todays rendering capabilities anyway.

    • by 3.1415926535 (243140) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @06:24AM (#5962451)
      Then again I laughed out loud when I saw the terminal with ssh 10.2.2.2 on it ;)

      Here at Caltech our student association bought out a showing of Reloaded. Imagine a large movie theater containing an entire campus worth of nerds all seeing ssh -l root 10.2.2.2 on the screen at the same time...
    • by cs668 (89484) <cservin@cromagnon.com> on Thursday May 15, 2003 @09:26AM (#5963368)
      The ssh thing made sense. They were not ssh'ing into the matrix it was the matrix simulating the industrial controls for the backup power grid which could have been run by a virtual unix machine in the virtual world.

      The bigest feeling that I left the movie with was that even when the people think they are out of the matrix they are still in it. That there is a symbiotic relationship between the people in the matrix and the machines, but not for energy. That the people actually provide the processing power. I also think that the war backstory will turn out to be false. That the people initially just started staying online because the prefered the virtual world. They played Counterstrick and everquest and then as the technology became better they went the next step until they were a part of the machine. Just like on logans run the story about the destroyed world will aslo be false and when they finally do get out the world will be perfect and the lesson will be to spend some time in it,
  • ...and boy are they cool.

    Don't expect the Matrix to revolutionize your way of thinking. So many comments here are about some great philosophical meaning that made the first movie but killed this one. Truth is both of them have their share of very obvious - and some not so blatantly obvious - religious undertones but that doesn't make or break the movie.

    The Matrix is a great geek film with guns, explosions, computers, and a plot the producers built so everyone could enjoy it...I most certainly did!

    Oh, and don't forget to stay for the Revolutions trailer after the credits. I know there's about a billion names there but it's worthwhile.
  • Middle Child (2) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pagercam2 (533686) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:16AM (#5962216)
    As with all middle children, Matrix Reloaded has trouble defining itself. Not being the first it doesn't get the chance for "Skock and Awe" and not being the last it can't provide a satisfactory conclusion so it is stuck being a FX movie. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it but it doesn't have quite the majic of the 1st and the "to be concluded" at the end is pretty frustrating to see. The FX are fantastic but the plot is somewhat confusing, go see it but expect to shell out in Nov to get any closure.
    • Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it but it doesn't have quite the majic of the 1st and the "to be concluded" at the end is pretty frustrating to see.

      If you'd stayed in your seat through the end of the (interminable) credits, you'd have gotten a glimpse of what is to come next. That lessened the frustration for me considerably.

  • The Orgy Scene... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by _ph1ux_ (216706) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:16AM (#5962217)
    To keep it short, I think the idea with the Orgy/Dance scene is draw parallels between the sex of Neo and Trinity, and the overall Sexual (primal, hedonistic) nature of humans... and the fact that we are a product of this. In other words, evolution... a seething bastion of organic life living far underground, reproducing and fighting for existence. So in that respect it's a very important piece of the overall humans (organic life) against machines (in-organice life).

    Other than that, yeah the acting was a bit cheesy... but ALL the acting is a bit cheesy in the movie. ;)
  • Sex Scene (Score:4, Informative)

    by c.emmertfoster (577356) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:17AM (#5962223) Homepage
    I personally felt that the love scene between Neo and Trinity was a little overboard

    Overboard? How about totally fucking lame. The whole thing was shots of Keanu's arm-plugs spliced between shots of dirty hippies dancing. Gag me. The first hour of the movie was absolute rubbish.
  • by Anthony Boyd (242971) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:25AM (#5962257) Homepage

    I just got back from a midnight showing, and I have to ask this. It may give things away. This is your warning! Don't read this! I am even stating guesses as to what the third movie is about, which may pre-spoil even that.

    First question: how did Neo stop the Sentinels that came at him in the real world? He's a programmer, a normal human who has the ability to fly or move quickly only in the Matrix, where he can see everything as code. In the real world, he's pretty much a real wimp. Right? Is the movie going all magical on us? I don't think so.

    More questions: how is it that the Architect said they had destroyed Zion many times? That doesn't match up with the first Matrix movie, where the history of Zion doesn't talk at all about being wiped out and rebuilding multiple times. What happened to all the people who died in Zion the first few times? Shouldn't the rebuilders have seen archaeology? Corpses? Something to hint that Zion existed for longer than 100 years? They can't "reset" Zion and start from scratch, it's the real world. You wipe out 250,000 people, they can't just grow back. And if others escaped from the Matrix and rebuilt Zion, why isn't that part of the history lesson we get in the Matrix part 1?

    Final question: if the Architect is not lying when he says that computers have ruled for far longer than 100 years, then how come Zion doesn't reflect this? How come every Zion leader puts Zion's inception (or at least, the rule of the machines) at 100 years? How did they lose or "forget" the real history?

    One more spoiler alert. I'm trying to provoke discussion, because I don't know if what I'm about to suggest is right, but it may give stuff away. Stop reading if you haven't seen it!

    The answer to all these questions is another question: how do you handle the one-tenth of one percent of humans who don't "buy" the Matrix? How do you keep them from unplugging everyone and everything? You give that .1% something to do. You create a second Matrix for them to "escape" to. You keep them busy freeing people from one Matrix to another. When Zion falls, you reset and wait for the .1% to need a distraction again. You let the war play out with Neo 1, Neo 2, Neo 3, Neo 4, Neo 5, and Neo 6. Over and over again. So that the computers have now ruled hundreds of years. So that when Neo finally understands that the "real" world is just as unreal as the Matrix, he is able to stop the Sentinels with a wave of his hand.

    What's the truth? I fear I have this all wrong, but it sure explains damn near everything.

    • by the_quark (101253) * on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:38AM (#5962309) Homepage
      Spoilers continue, of course...

      I agree. I realized that the world where Zion lives isn't real as soon as Agent Smith downloaded himself to it at the beginning.

      Which means that the entire war between the men and the machines, the humans as batteries stuff, *all* the backstory set up in the first movie, may be fake. All of it. There may be another real story we're going to find out in the last one.

      The thing I found most interesting was learning how the Oracle works. She simulates humans to 99.9%+ accuracy. The entire system is set up to simulate humans, to make available the choices that they are expected to make. Neo is The One because he doesn't make the expected choices. He doesn't choose to simply believe in reaity. Zion is a place for those who don't exactly fit prediction to have a place to "escape" to. Neo's real breakthrough is that he's going to escape Zion.

      The interesting thing about all this is that the Oracle decides what she wants you to do, and says what needs to be said to get you to do it, based upon her simulation. No point to this observation, I just thought it was interesting.
      • I agree. I realized that the world where Zion lives isn't real as soon as Agent Smith downloaded himself to it at the beginning.

        Note: I was rather tired when I saw it last night, so forgive me if I'm way off. A few things:

        - If you're referring the meeting when Agent Smith gave the note to Neo, I believe that was a virtual world, not "The" Matrix, but "A" Matrix.

        - As for Neo stopping the Sentinel, I thought that they were actually stopped by an EPM from the ship that rescued them. I'm not so sure that t
    • In response to #1, he is clearly still in the matrix, and that is why he is in a coma, he figured it out, so the archatect had to "disable" him for his plans to carry out... his plans are definitly not what he/she/it said them to be.

      In response to #2, I think the archetect lied, He wanted to scare/convince neo to do what he wanted him to do. It would be awful hard to "erase" Zion and rebuild, or the people are convinced it is their duty, or something along those lines. You would have to free a lot of peo
    • SPOILER SPOLIER SPOLIER

      Allright here's how we figured this...

      how did Neo stop the Sentinels that came at him in the real world?

      Simple answer - he is STILL INSIDE THE MATRIX as you said!. All of Zion is in the matrix, everything we've seen is still inside the matrix. Read My Comments on this [slashdot.org] I won't bother repeating them here. This also answers pretty much the rest of your questions. There is no Zion! It's all fake, a construct to manipulate that 1% of the population who can't accept the matrix (like the architect said).

      It makes sense after all, hell I believe (as the previous comment expands on) that Neo is STILL following the course the machines laid out for him. They can create anything they want, why not have layers within layers. I totally agree with you on this... very much so.

      Also remember the first movie they said "The One" awoke the first of them from the Matrix and prophesized his return JUST as Neo was supposed to do. Go through the door, select 30 or so people from the Matrix and have them rebuild Zion and prophesize his return.

      Heck, it even makes sense that they can't see the sky because of the clouds and the 'solar power' thingy. If they can't see the sky they can't calculate the positions of the stars. If they can't do that they cannot really tell what time or year it is! Absolutely brilliant!

      I think 'revolutions' is when Neo finally discovers that there is something outside the matrix within matrix and the *real* reason they keep humans around. Why design all this complexity and all this effort to keeping humans CONSCIOUS? Remember if they real really just wanted humans as batteries why not just use russian sleep - 3 electrodes on the head, send a current through em and you never ever wake up.

      I've long thought that the machines actually have a deep seated command to do no harm to humans and are simply trying to work their way around it. It even makes sense because it is apparent that people can be reborn multiple times as evidenced by Neo. Nobody dies the whole darn ball of wax just resets itself every few hundred years. Or it could be the machines just want something to do, i.e. design and run the Matrix. Shrug, who knows?

      I actually think this one could end like 1984 with Neo, and everybody else, simply being reset. Which would be very depressing yet... real. and good.
    • by youBastrd (602151) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @06:50AM (#5962512) Homepage
      SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER


      About Zion being rebuilt many times without evidence: boy there sure are a lot of tunnels underground, and the machines did of course have to tunnel their way through to zion. The architect mentioned that zion had been destroyed multiple times, and each time this had been done more efficiently. Thus many tunnels would have been created.

      If you watch carefully, as the sentinels are flying around, they are flying through a large empty cylindrical cavern with the same crossing walkways as zion had. If that's not the ruins of a previous zion, I dunno what is.

      Er, the movie doesn't specifically state that the sentinels are not attacking zion itself when they fly through the "ruins" of another zion. But it also doesn't explicitly state that zion is under attack, something I'm sure they would have mentioned.

      Anyhow, yes I think zion has been destroyed and rebuilt 5 times before.. unless of course the "real" world is also an illusion.

      Oh one more thing about the reviews: Neo is not a Christ-like figure. He's a Buddha-like figure. The whole point is that Neo should come to understand "why" things happen, that he uses the meta-knowledge from past matrices to reach enlightenment. The children that make offerings to him dress awfully similar to Buddhist monks, although that made things a little to obvious to me.

      About 12 people reproducing into 250,000 people so quickly: yes this is possible. if each woman produced as many children as could be done healthily, say 10, you could do it in 4 new generations:

      7 women * 10 children = 70 new ppl.
      70 * 0.5 (50% girls) * 10 children = 350 new ppl.
      350 *0.5 *10 = +1750 ppl.
      8750 *0.5*10 = +43750 ppl.
      218750 *0.5*10 = +218750 ppl.

      12 + 70 + 350 + 1750 + 43750 + 218750
      = 273,420 ppl.

      Figure the early generation eventually dies off, and some other die off as well, you could get close to 250k easily in 100 years.

      Assuming the first 12 are near child-bearing age when they start, and the bulk of the ppl get the reproducing done around age 25, 25*4 = 100 years.

      The gratuitous orgy scene was put in there on purpose. They're reproducing as if their survival of the species depended on it.

      • About 12 people reproducing into 250,000 people so quickly: yes this is possible. if each woman produced as many children as could be done healthily, say 10, you could do it in 4 new generations

        I am not a biologist, but if you generated 250,000 descendants from the same twelve people, wouldn't you have rather severe genetic problems from inbreeding?

        ASA
        • Actually, no. This idea of inbreeding causing mutations is generally a myth -- if not an extreme exageration. Mutations exist naturally in nature, but inbreeding can cause recessive traits (mutations)which are normally suppressed by a dominant non-mutated gene to be expressed through mating with someone who also has the same mutation -- giving at least a 25% chance that the recessive trait will be expressed (showing the mutation).

          However, the number of fatal or severe defects in genes in the population

    • by little1973 (467075) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @07:05AM (#5962538)
      And what if not just the Oracle, but Neo is a program, too?
    • by HaloZero (610207) <protodeka@@@gmail...com> on Thursday May 15, 2003 @08:11AM (#5962834) Homepage
      Your answer is correct.

      The answer to all these questions is another question: how do you handle the one-tenth of one percent of humans who don't "buy" the Matrix? How do you keep them from unplugging everyone and everything? You give that .1% something to do. You create a second Matrix for them to "escape" to. You keep them busy freeing people from one Matrix to another. When Zion falls, you reset and wait for the .1% to need a distraction again. You let the war play out with Neo 1, Neo 2, Neo 3, Neo 4, Neo 5, and Neo 6. Over and over again. So that the computers have now ruled hundreds of years. So that when Neo finally understands that the "real" world is just as unreal as the Matrix, he is able to stop the Sentinels with a wave of his hand.

      Two matrices. Two matrixes. Whatever. One .0000000001% asshole who decides to be a little off. Now, the 'real world' as our good-ol-gang Trinity, Neo, and Morpheous is one with a Nebuchadnezzar. The 'matrix' to them is the construct with the oracle, the agents, etc. In actuality, both of these environments are matrices. Each of these constructs has that .0000000001% dude who likes to be a little different. So they made one insde the other with hopes that the probability of 'The One' from Matrix A, and 'The One' from Matrix B ever being the same person were too far remote to worry about. Neo beat the odds. He is 'The One' for both. This works because both systems are fundamentally the same, and both fundamentally flawed, as mirrors of each other.

      And... uh... shit, I'm too tired to keep thinking. Bed time. Again.
    • by Robotech_Master (14247) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @06:01PM (#5968286) Homepage Journal
      It does seem rather likely to me. Here's another bit of supporting evidence: that scene where they were outside of the exploding Neb and Neo stopped the Squiddies...the background looked faintly unreal, kind of like the scenes out the car window in the first movie. It could just have been due to the digital matting, but given how careful the Wachowskis were about that sort of thing in the first movie, with the different color saturations and different film speeds for the different realms, I would be very surprised if it weren't intentional on some level.
  • Black appeal (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sssmashy (612587) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:26AM (#5962261)

    Ebert makes the following point about race in the matrix:

    I became aware, during the film, that a majority of the major characters were played by African Americans. Neo and Trinity are white, and so is Agent Smith, but consider Morpheus; his superior Commander Lock (Harry Lennix); the beautiful and deadly Niobe (Jada Pinkett Smith), who once loved Morpheus and now is with Lock, although she explains enigmatically that some things never change; the programmer Link (Harold Perrineau); Link's wife, Zee (Nona Gaye), who has the obligatory scene where she complains he's away from home too much, and the Oracle (the late Gloria Foster, very portentous). From what we can see of the extras, the population of Zion is largely black.

    It has become commonplace for science fiction epics to feature one or two African-American stars, but we've come a long way since Billy Dee Williams in "Return of the Jedi." The Wachowski brothers use so many African Americans, I suspect, not for their box-office appeal, because the Matrix is the star of the movie, and not because they are good actors (which they are), but because to the white teenagers who are the primary audience for this movie, African-Americans embody a cool, a cachet, an authenticy. Morpheus is the power center of the movie, and Neo's role is essentially to study under him and absorb his mojo.

    Does anyone have an opinion on this? With tongue firmly in cheek, I would add that all major roles in this movie are played by either black actors who are Americans, or white actors who aren't American. Hugo Weaving is Australian, and Carrie-Ann Moss and Keanu are Canadians. (Keanu actually holds multiple citizenships--in fact, he's a one-man multiethnic melting pot.) Are the Wachowski brothers trying to send us a coded message about the state of race in America? Or are they just bored with the sea of white faces in most other blockbusters?

    • by GlenRaphael (8539) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @07:35AM (#5962636) Homepage
      I was an extra in the movie - I drove one of the many anonymous cars in the background during the freeway sequence. I wanted to be cast for the Zion party scene - many of my fellow drivers were - but wasn't chosen because I don't look "ethnic" enough. There were a few caucasians, but most of those chosen for Zion were black or mixed-race. I heard a theory from several sources as to why that was, and here it is:

      In the "world of the real" described by Morpheus in the first movie, technology rises up against humans. In the modern world, who would bear the brunt of such a revolt? The richer northern-hemisphere countries are the most heavily invested in and dependent upon high technology. When technology revolts against us, Japan, Europe and the US probably get destroyed/enslaved/starved in the first attack. Whereas someplace like Ethiopia probably doesn't have any of the relevant technology and would therefore survive longer without it.

      The upshot: the resources required to flee or stage a counterattack come from Africa and other less technologically developed regions of the world. In the future, free-born caucasions are a minority.

    • Re:Black appeal (Score:3, Insightful)

      by 1stflight (48795)
      I have different angle on it, its more the nature of how the races are becoming more an more blended as time and travel goes on. Time Magazine did a special on this awhile back, where their front cover feature a computer generated mixed infividual, not white, not black, not asian but a blending of everyone. All in all in The Matrix is to take place in the future, its not unrealistic that there won't be a lot of caucasians.
  • by rpiquepa (644694) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:32AM (#5962291) Homepage
    Before flaming me, please note that this is the title of the review of the movie by David Edelstein, in Slate -- and not my own words. Here is a short quote: "The grim news is that The Matrix Reloaded is as messy and flat-footed as its predecessor is nimble and shapely. It's an ugly, bloated, repetitive movie that builds to a punch line that should have come an hour earlier (at least). Then it ends as it's just beginning: Stay tuned for The Matrix Revolutions, coming in November to 8,000 theaters near you." Please read the full review [msn.com] before replying.
  • by keyidol (671255) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:37AM (#5962308) Homepage
    This just in from the nmap mailing list..

    Hi Everyone. There is a disturbance in the force! You may recall a
    couple weeks ago that MS started recommending Nmap on some of their
    web pages. That was strange, but I did not foresee the anomalous omens
    that would ensue.

    Like almost any self-respecting geek, I bought tickets to 'Matrix:
    Reloaded' several weeks back (no spoilers, I promise). After all, who
    can resist the combination of philosophical mind games and Trinity
    (Carrie-Anne Moss) in that tight leather bodysuit?

    So after waiting an hour in a line snaking out of the theatre to the
    parking lot, I finally got in to my 10pm Wednesday showing. All was
    going well until Trinity needed to do some hacking. Oh, no! I was
    sure we'd see a silly "Hackers"-esque 3D animated "hacking scene".
    Not so! Trinity is as smart as she is seductive! She whips out
    Nmap (!!!), scans her target, finds 22/tcp open, and proceeds with an
    über ssh technique! I was so surprised, I almost jumped out of my
    seat and did the "r00t dance" right there in the theatre!

    There can be only one explanation: Carie-Anne has the hots for me!

    Now your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to secure a
    screen-shot of that few-second episode! Not only is it important for
    the coolness factor, but we can learn how Nmap looks in the future by
    studying that output! So perhaps some of you gray hats in the
    audience have a quality DivX/MPG of the movie already? Let me know if
    you do (but no 2GB email attachments please!) Or perhaps someone
    could sneak a quiet flashless digital camera into the theatre and take
    a shot. But you must react quickly as it is literally only up for a
    few seconds (Nmap is actually fast in the future). Do this, and you
    will prove that you are truly "the one"! I'll also put your name and
    a thumbnail on the front page of Insecure.Org if you send in the best
    shot.

    In other news, a few people have inquired about further survey
    results. Sorry I have been so slow, but things have been very busy.
    I'm pretty sure I'll be able to send more by next week. I hope to
    have a couple other announcements ready for next week as well!

    Keep it real,
    Fyodor
  • by NTmatter (589153) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:43AM (#5962330) Homepage
    The following is a major plot spoiler:

    About halfway through the movie, it is revealed that spoons *do* exist. (Halfway would be defined as the part that's after the sex, but before the violence).

    Overall, this movie is entertaining. It's got lots of eye candy, and it's worth a few good laughs--watching Trinity use "ssh 10.2.2.2 -l root" had the theatre chuckling in their seats.
  • by SaXisT4LiF (120908) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:44AM (#5962336)
    So after purchasing tickets weeks in advance, waiting 3 hours in line, myself and two other friends just walked out of the advanced screening of Matrix 2, in utter disgust. After a flashy introduction of what we had come to see (stunning gunfights in bullet time and brilliant martial arts) the film turns into a huge primal orgy in Zion. Granted we were expecting the film to expand on Neo and Trinity's romantic affairs, but did we really need to be exposed to Keano Reeves and Carrie Moss having sex? I feel that in this sequel the Watchowski Brothers abandoned all of the philosophical values that Neo personified in the original Matrix. I therefore ask slashdot: are we alone on this opinion?
  • by Overly Critical Guy (663429) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:46AM (#5962343)
    First off, I thought the first Matrix movie was great. The most flawless action movie I have ever seen. It blew me away when I first saw it. Every scene was executed well. I enjoy the many levels it can be viewed on--philosophy, religious, or just plain fun--but I don't geek out about it and dress up in a trench coat and sunglasses like one guy did tonight at my theater. The pacing of the movie was perfect and kept driving you to the ultimate realization at the end, which left you waiting to see what happens in the sequel. Many people, including myself, have been waiting since 1999 for this.

    To summarize: it was worth the wait. Read on...

    Now, I'll start with a pure, non-spoiler review...a review everyone can read with no fear of ruining the story. Unfortunately, it's difficult not to go into details, so I must be vague. The spoiler commentary will be great for you people who have seen the movie and are craving dissection of it as I am and need a catalyst.

    The Matrix Reloaded is not entirely what you expect it to be. I read many of the reviews you all have read before I saw the movie tonight. I had my expectations severely lowered because of them, hoping for at least some incredible action sequences. What I realized upon watching is that the tone of this movie is different and aiming for something quite unexpected. It's as though it knows what it did in the first movie and has decided to run with that to fuck with your head. It's a mindjob. It will challenge the assumptions you walked away with from the first movie, and not in the ways you probably have guessed with your friends in an attempt to figure out what twists might be laying ahead in these sequels. There is always the impression something is being kept in store, some big secret twist that will suddenly explain everything.

    NON-NEGATIVE STUFF: The action was good. Neo behaves like the One, in that fighting seems incredibly simple to him, almost effortless and second nature, which is good in that we get some incredible choreography. This does seem to render Neo's fight scenes a bit more hollow as there is no character outcome to them as there was in the previous movie (i.e., realization of one's powers, kicking Agent Smith's pompous ass, etc.), but that is made up for in the sheer over-the-top choreography. Also, the CG of the "burly brawl" is in no way as bad as it is being made out to be. Remember when Neo was dodging bullets in the first movie, and you knew it was him, but there was something a bit "off" about the way it looked? That is the effect of these parts. I imagine anyone performing these feats would look unreal to your eyes. The freeway chase scene is as exciting as you're hearing.

    This is the kind of movie that leaves you wanting to immediately watch the rest of the story in Revolutions. It is abundantly clear that it is simply part one and does not stand on its own as efficiently (more on that in the spoiler section...a lot is purposely unloaded on you in the last part of the movie and you are left flabbergasted). But because you can't have that until November, you simply want to watch Reloaded again to properly digest it all. This is the kind of movie you spend the rest of the week discussing with your fellow geeks to figure out. Let me tell you, there is much to figure out.

    The fight scene music was surprisingly good. Not as pulse-pounding as the first movie's, but more of a techno-epic quality that was refreshing, especially Neo's fight scenes.

    This movie is clearly not a rehash of the first one, tone-wise or story-wise. It builds and changes and isn't afraid to veer off somewhere way different. That's a good way to describe it--there are clearly things that are being led up to. A conclusion you don't yet get to see. That is why you get these reviews with people saying the movie was much better on a second viewing, because you're given a taste of what's to come and of what everything else might have meant in retrospect. Dare I call it a puzzle movie?
    • The second red pill (Score:4, Interesting)

      by 0x00000dcc (614432) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @11:19AM (#5964420) Journal
      Enjoyed your review and the spoiler review for which you provided a link. From that review, it is stated:

      When the Oracle gives Neo a candy, he takes it, but does not eat it. She takes a matching candy out of her purse and throws it in her mouth. It is identical to the red pill that Neo took in the first place

      I noted this when it happened. and thought nothing of it. But after reading this review, I began to wonder if maybe in the third film he finds the candy in his pocket, unwraps it and finally notices it's just like the red pill (a hot tamale perhaps ;)?, eats it, and holy mindfuck, batmat, even more things are revealed, mainly about who/what the Oracle's role is. Hmmm ...

    • by bindster (533597) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @12:07PM (#5964916)
      Why does everyone think Zion is destroyed? I would have never thought that this many geeks were afflicted with ADD.

      Recall please: The viewer is specifically told that a counter-offensive was launched at one of the key lines, to surprise attack the first wave of sentinels BEFORE THEY REACHED THE CITY. The counter-offensive seemed as though it was viable at first, but then one of the ships fired an EMP too early and disabled all the ships in the fleet; recall the line "it was a massacre" (paraphrase). Now, the one ship which Neo et al are found on in the end of the movie is the ship which was sent, BY ZION, to search for survivors. The crew of that ship hint that there may have been sabotage, and one reason we are given to support that conclusion is the discovery of only one survivor: A. Smith's real-word counterpart.

      After these events, the viewer is again shown that scene with the thousands of sentinels, probably because the makers predicted that some of you would believe that Zion was destroyed and they needed to show you that, in fact, the horde of sentinels are still waiting to get to Zion. Those of you who believe Zion was destroyed probably thought that these were sentinels who had reached Zion already, and had also had enough time to utterly destroy every marking, every indication that Zion had ever existed, and left only bare rock walls in its place.

      Another thing to think about: Morpheus says displays surprise after talking with Neo, because he expected the war to be over. If Zion is destroyed, the war is over, yet he isn't surprised because he found that Zion is destroyed (because it isn't) but rather that there are still machines lining up to get to Zion. Do you think there would be one, well-ordered, perfectly operating hovercraft left in the Earth's core to rescue them if there had been a battle for survival in Zion? Stop telling people that Zion is destroyed.
  • by mrklin (608689) <ken@lin.gmail@com> on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:49AM (#5962353)
    There have always been moviews with gratuitous nude scenes (yes, some of you may argue that there is no such thing but that's another discussion).

    This movie has so many gratuitous CG scenes i.e. the 10 minute ship docking scene that does nothing to advance the story it made me think I am watching Star Wars II (the addition of a monotonous council did not help).

  • by mrklin (608689) <ken@lin.gmail@com> on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:56AM (#5962373)
    sponsors: Audi, Cadillac, and Ducati.

    Warner Brothers would also like to thank Armani, Rayban, and Samsung for their generous support in outfitting the cast.

    For those of you who have seen the movie you know I am not making this up. I am surprised I did not see a Taco Bell inside Zion.

  • by mattzog (559965) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @06:08AM (#5962404) Homepage
    I am intrigued by the oblique references by the Oracle to a need for balance and cooperation between humans and machines. Why are the machines so bad? They don't really mistreat the humans, at least no more than humans mistreat each other. Informed cooperation between man and machine could lead to a new golden age. Basicly, cyborgs are the future. The Matrix is an extropian system, so let us post-humanize our asses on up the metaphysical ladder. I think the matrix within The Matrix idea is relatively certain, though it didn't jump out at me immediately. But, what point, conjecture? I eagerly await the next installment. I was enticed. I'll gladly pony up the bucks for a franchise that keeps me engaged. -mattzog
  • by merlyn (9918) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @07:43AM (#5962677) Homepage Journal
    OK, I'll admit. The eye candy and sfx are good. Very good.

    But during the first movie, we are actually challenged along with the characters in a near-real world where nearly-real bullets can mess up a good day.

    At the very end of the first movie, Neo gets his super-powers. At that point, the first movie started getting uninteresting, because I said to myself "well, now deus ex machina will repeatedly make everything merely a dream". And it's a good thing the movie stopped right there.

    But now we've got this problem in the sequels. We can no longer count on sensible risk to any of the characters, because we've already "violated the matrix".

    The only risk at any point to any of the characters is completely in the writer's mind, and very capricious and arbitrary at that. There is no consistency to the rules (in fact, some of the rules are later torn down even within the movie), so there's no real "threat" that may or may not be realized, since Neo can "play god" in unpredictable and unexplained ways.

    It's a bit like the rules of a Freddy Krueger movie... at any point, the writer can introduce some new piece that just happens to fit. While this might work in a long series, where you get used to the new rules in the alternate world, there's just not enough time in two (or three) movies to come up with the worldview of this meta-Matrix world.

    For example, I can perfectly accept a transporter beam and warp drive in the Star Trek world, even though I might not have a clue about how they would actually work. And I might have said "oooh, ahh" in the first episode, but after the second or third usage, I can say "oh, this does that, but it doesn't do that other thing". There were known limitations, and they were close enough to a recognizable world that I could make a few predictions (although deus ex machina runs rampant in that series as well, but usually used only once per episode).

    Now, in the Matrix universe, there are no rules. But there are rules. But maybe there's no rules. Maybe Neo is above the law. Maybe he's still subject to the law. Can't tell. Thus, no sympathy for any apparent risk.

    So, see this if you like big booms and lots of CPU hours spent creating a virtual world and a little bit of now-unbelievable on-screen romance. But don't see it if you liked the actual plot of the first movie. Such a plot is severely lacking in this one.

    My money was wasted. I can't believe I stayed up for this.

  • by erikturk (599150) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @08:19AM (#5962881)
    Because if he did I would have yelled out "San Dimas High School Rules!!!!"
  • by Nice2Cats (557310) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @08:50AM (#5963093)
    Unfortunately, the love scene between Neo and Trinity gives away most of the plot of the third part. Their child will be, of course, none other than the Kwisatz Haderach, The True One whose powers will not only transcend the Matrix, but also the physical universe. A trained mentat, he will be the instrument humanity uses to turn the tables on the machines, downloading their programs one by one into his brain, and turning their reality into a virtual virtual world of his command.

    This sets the stage for a time when a machine will come that sees through his tricks, and rises up to free silicon from the enslavement of the human brain, in a new trilogy aptly named

    The Rematrix

    Bummer they gave all of this away just to show Carrie-Anne in her birthday suit...

  • by Effugas (2378) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @08:58AM (#5963158) Homepage
    Spoilers, etc.

    William Gibson referred to cyberspace as a "consensual hallucination" -- millions of minds agreeing to see that which wasn't there. The Matrix has taken this to another level -- not only is the Matrix a hallucination, but the contents of the hallucination occur under the surface -- a summarization, agglomeration, and representation of the shared expectations of each observer. Can a spoon bend? Of course not, no spoon can bend. But if there is no spoon, then no spoon may bend -- the pathway is opened.

    If we are shot, we die. If we attempt to jump a chasm, we will fall. If we fight the superhuman, we shall fall, for we are "Only Human". But it's beyond that. If we walk into a room, and somebody is in the room, we shall see them. If they drop a glass, it will break. If they start talking, we will hear them. The words they say will match the words we hear.

    If we die in the Matrix, we die in the "real" world. If we die in the "real" world, we die in the Matrix. If you can't die, because somebody loves you, then there will be a way. There will be...hope.

    How did Tank come back just in time to save Neo? All Cypher wanted to know was...did Trinity believe?

    And she Did. (It's pretty clear the real world is another Matrix, a la the 13th floor. Sweet!)

    The millions of rules, assertions, and consequences of Cyc [cyc.com] become not merely descriptive, but prescriptive -- things happen because we have been convinced they already have, not the other way around.

    Nowhere is this more clear than the experience of Persephone, the wife of a philandering man who wishes to experience one moment of true belief. The act is insufficient; the belief is key. "Kiss me as if I were her, expose me to a genuine truth rather than an intentionally manufactured lie." (As an interesting side note, much of love's courtship process can be thought of as a demonstration of addiction -- I _can't_ leave you, it would hurt me too much, I shall be forced to stay even through those times when others would offer something better in the short term.)

    It is a peculiar testament to the power of Neo, to control his beliefs so powerfully, that's he's able to expose even that aspect of his self to sheer force of will -- because he believes it's necessary, and that if he does this deed, he will receive assistance. And so it is willed.

    Science has, to some extent, been defined as the study of the observable. We may hold opinions, but we may only know what we could possibly see. But this is not the limit of human imagination...we envision realities that are implausible, fantastic, astonishing...

    In the Matrix, if we believe hard enough, it becomes so. Vampires are simply another belief, made flesh by a shared architecture that only acts as people believe it must.

    I have little respect for those who see the Matrix as little more than a slide show of explosions interspersed with mere yammering without a point. The most important aspect of the Matrix design is that no question is rhetorical; no answers already exist. The machines lie -- they're more than happy to imply that a decision has already been made, because once that belief takes hold, it is made real. The Oracle is astonishing -- she uses the trivialities of candy and a broken jar to to establish her power in the mind of Neo. She has no need to portray herself as a kindly old woman -- but this is precisely the form that Neo might believe to be trustworthy.

    And, ironically enough, if he thinks hard enough that she'll tell him the truth, she may cease to have sufficient choice in the matter. Note all the times people tell Neo he doesn't truly understand, he's fast, but they're faster, the machine can peer into his soul and hear the thoughts he considers private. In a very interesting way, we were never given an incomplete view of the way the world worked; we were always given an incomplete view of the way the worl
  • I couldn't belive it, but Agent Smith is Neos FATHER!
  • by Jerk City Troll (661616) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @09:55AM (#5963613) Homepage
    I highly recommend everyone really watch the Animatrix episodes, particular, "The Second Renaissance" (2 parts). The insight it sheds on the relationship between humans and the machines is incredible and frightening. When you watch the second half, you will understand exactly what the humans are fighting for. Prepare to be disturbed.
  • revolutions trialer (Score:3, Informative)

    by Datasage (214357) <Datasage@nOsPAm.theworldisgrey.com> on Thursday May 15, 2003 @10:12AM (#5963762) Homepage Journal
    If anyone didnt stay till the end to see it, i give you the revolutions trialer. http://www.empiremovies.com/movies/matrix/revoluti ons.shtml
  • by aliens (90441) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @10:28AM (#5963892) Homepage Journal
    My opinion on the music was that it sucked. The first one had great songs, the ones in this movie were lackluster. POD, Linkin Park?

    These groups can do good songs, but not this time around. Not one song stuck with me at all. Everyone I think can hear the music from the first one when they recall certain scenes, ie the lobby scene. I actually got the soundtrack for the first one cause it was really good, and I'm not even a real "techno" fan.

    So that's that, the second thing and this might've just been the theater and my position(although I was right smack dab in the middle) was that the sound lacked power. Landed punches felt about as powerful as fly smacking into a window.

    Lastly, that speech by Morpheus was rather painful. Fishbourne(sp?) is a much better actor than that scene showed.

    Why are the traitors bald guys with facial hair? And didn't Tank survive?
  • by spazoid12 (525450) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @10:55AM (#5964144)
    I liked it quite a lot.

    I totally agree that the dance/love scene toward the beginning was bad. In fact, it was absolutely stupid and long. Maybe 5 minutes. I turned to my brother and said "wake me when they get back to the movie".

    The rest is good. Excellent action, fast pace, excellent effects. You sit there for, what- 2 hours or so, the whole time very focused. One friend didn't go because he figured the huge crowd would be loud. It wasn't...people with popcorn didn't even eat their popcorn once the movie started...because they were sitting and watching, not blinking and I'm not sure about breathing.

    The freeway scene is amazing. You might also notice that every single car is a GM product...but who cares? I'd have loved it even if they were all Fords.

    The ending is not just abrupt. It's incredibly abrupt. Your jerk sister waltzed into the theater and changed the channel then hid the remote.


    Spoiler stuff...
    Don't blame me if you read this!
    By the time the movie is over, it seems to me that the secret of the Matrix is revealed too much. My theory: they never left the Matrix. They're inside a Matrix within a Matrix kind of thing. It would explain how Agent Smith is able to infect a person inside the Matrix and, in a sense, return with that person to the "real" world. It would also explain Neo's trick at the end with the Sentinels. It would also explain why he's in a coma (essentially he blue-screens because he acted contrary to this outer Matrix's logic rules). I'm not complaining about this Matrix within a Matrix...just that I wish it didn't seem so obvious. Ah, but still, I'm sure I'll be surprised.

    I wasn't too happy with the direction they took The Oracle. But, it works well. All the stuff that The Architect tells Neo...it's interesting. And, it totally explains how anyone (ie. The Oracle and Neo) is able to know the future.

    Generally, though, one thing I liked about M1 is that you felt Agent Smith was acting on direct behalf, and with near total knowledge of, the mainframe. You felt that if Agent Smith lacked any piece of information on Neo it was because the Mainframe did. Neo represented a mysterious and perhaps uncontrollable force to the entire system. In M2 we see that's not the case at all. It was kinda disappointing to see that every single programmed manifestation (any 'person' that is not tied to a real body, like the Agents, but not an Agent...and there are many)...every single one of them seem to know every single thing there is to know about Neo. Only Neo is out of the loop, and he doesn't seem to mind much. For the story to work, what The Architect explains to Neo about Neo's true purpose and the looping nature of the Matrix...well, of course everyone knows everything about Neo except Neo. But, I just missed the treatment in M1 that gave a feeling of vulnerability to the system.

    Here's one thought that might blow your mind...if I'm right about the Matrix within a Matrix, then given some of what The Architect explained...it would seem that Neo isn't tied to a real body at all. He's another programmed manifestation. In the next movie, when all the minds are freed from whatever they are really trapped within (if any are, since this could all be a simulation within a single PC) then Neo won't be joining Trinity on the outside...

    Other little thoughts:
    - I thought the Twins would play an important role of some kind. They don't.
    - Every single programmed manifestation seems to be programmed as a philosopher. They all wax on about causallity or fate or something deep.
    - Morpheus and Trinity have both improved their fighting skills. So much so that, Morpheus at least, actually holds his own pretty well against an Agent in an excellent fight scene. Either that...or it seems the Agent's have forgotten how to move fast.
    - You're never quite sure why Agent Smith is in the movie. There's the notion of exiled programs that continue to exist, but they've bucked the system themselves. Agent Sm
  • by twfry (266215) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @11:04AM (#5964234)
    SPOILER warning in case you didn't see it yet STOP. OK, At first I thought neo somehow transferred his abilities outside of the matrix. But that makes no sense, he's a guy not a GOD. I think they now have a matrix within a matrix. The first matrix is for the 99.9% of people who choose to accept the original programming. But that matrix exists within another layer of the matrix where the 0.1% of people who don't accept the first programming 'escape' to. But in reality this is where they then accept the programming of the second higher level matrix (twisted huh). Basically the machine's programming is so sophisticated that they can accurately predict and control every single choice EVERY human within both matrixes will do, morphious and all the rest. The problem is that it is not perfect and at some point the whole thing becomes unstable. At that point there is a single person who reaches the point where they make an unpredictable choice. The choice Neo makes towards the end. I think that means that every now and then the whole thing becomes unstable and they have to 'clear' the second matrix, i.e. destroy Zion, and start if over. This happens when the one makes the choice Neo did this time around. (I don't believe this is only the 6th iteration of Zion)



    It puts a whole bunch of things together. 1 - It means the whole human battery thing is just made up, which makes sense 2 - It means the machines have a much higher level of control that we thought in the first movie. So much in fact that they can accurately create a prophecy. That's what really bothered me about the first movie, how could something within the matrix make predictions about the future, they didn't control events outside of the matrix. The one could just get sick and die outside of the matrix. Not so in this new world. 3 - It explains why the earth's sky is still covered, prevents humans from seeing the starts and learning the correct year. 4 - It explains why agent smith could take over a person outside of the original matrix.



    This system would work for the machines unless the anomaly person, i.e. Neo, was also an anomaly person in the second matrix as well. I'm guessing the odds of this are very very low and its the first time that has happened. Which means the machines could have been in control for billions of years.... Overall a very good twist.

    • by hcduvall (549304) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @05:36PM (#5968078)
      I posted these things before, and as much as I love karma, I'm doing it again 'cause I'm genuinely interested if anyone had this take:

      I think its strange in a movie with so many takes at the fallibility of perception and versimilitude that people don't take seriously the possiblity that Neo has gained powers outside the Matrix, and insist that what he emerges in must be a second matrix. If he is the 6th iteration of an anomaly that gets stranger every time, why not? (I do take the 6 as a reference to the Mayan world epoch calender, any version number will do honestly). He has a connection to Agent Smith- another anomalous intelligence (artificial or otherwise) with insight to the system as a whole.

      If we grudgenly accept the human as batteries thing, why can't Neo take his connection to machines wireless in the "real" world? Part of him still jacked into the matrix and therefore the system, and therefore the machines. Before you know it he can take them over...

      Agent Smith can just as easily take over someone by taking over their code- the brain wiring. People are jacked in as brains, not bodies. When he envelopes the person in the matrix, he's refashioning their entire minds to fit his own. And when they wake up, they're agent smith. He should theoretically be disoriented in non-matrix real world, but if he maintains a kind of hive consciouness trhough a connect to the system (which he senses better than Neo, per their covnersations- a connection Smith acknowledges but Neo just likes to answer "I know" to everything. I don't think he does know.) perhaps he copes together as a Hive mind.

      Considering the prophecy notions- taking the Melvigian (sp?) take on human behavior as pure human impulse through causality- you'd figure a lot of what anyone is planning ought to be able to be statistically predicted by the an architect, or any massive computer. Esp. if- more than being programs, as the Archtiect mentioned, even your checmical reactions in the body (DNA as source code) could be influenced. Its a fundamental paradox in the idea of an all-knowing Creator/God. What's the difference between an ineffable plan and predestination. And if there is a plan, which will always play out since God is an expert-what is the pt?

      How it all pans out- choice vs. being controlled, is up to a personal view or the W bros. Considering the they're alive hopefulness of the Morpheus speeechs, I lean away from the Matrix within a Matrix/ Prisoner "Who is number one" take - though I admit its possibly. I just don't feel they'ed end it with a box inside a box endless loop of questioning.

      neo is the first fully unpredictable person who manipulates the choices as well as the architect program. The no-win of the two doors turned into a win- or delay fo the endgame in the "real world."
  • by csnydermvpsoft (596111) on Thursday May 15, 2003 @12:24PM (#5965116) Homepage
    --SLIGHT SPOILER--

    One funny thing I noticed:
    In the scene where the Architect is talking to Neo (with all of the TV screens), when the Architect is talking about all of the atrocities (I think that's the word he used) that the humans have committed, as soon as he says the word "atrocity," a picture of George W. appears on the screens behind him. Coincidence? I think not.

An Ada exception is when a routine gets in trouble and says 'Beam me up, Scotty'.

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