Michigan To Purchase Record 130,000 Laptops

goombah99 writes "The Detroit FreePress reports that Michigan state is planning the largest single laptop purchase/lease ever, over 130,000 wireless laptops--enough for every 6th grader. And of course future purchases for each new class. The main competion is between Dell and Apple, with Apple having the edge in classroom integration experience. But price points will matter since the school districts may have to pay $25 per pupil. And the Gates foundation has a foot in the door. No word on what OS the Dell laptops would run. What would be your choice for middle school classrooms with minimal sys admin?"

what?

[blackmonday]

"No word on what OS the Dell laptops would run."

That can't be a serious statement.

I hope Apple wins and these kids get iBooks with an airport card. I have a G4 Powerbook and my girlfriend has a 900mhz iBook, and I have to tell you, I'm not really sure where my extra $1000 went.

MY choice?

[Matey-O]

a Live Linux distribution storing the data on a central fileserver with robust virus scanning.

Bad for Apple, Bad for Comps in Schools.

[StingRayGun]

What are the chances that this actually get based on class/user-experiance? This will come down to gates wanting this one, and people making un-educated decisions. I see this going to Dell al the way.

This effects more then Apple though, this effects the whole computers in classrooms issue. When the go with MSDELL, and it ends up costing a lot more then they realized, other schools will not be as likely to fallow suite.

Other Considerations

[ath3na]

I live in the Detroit area and have been keeping up with this story - and I think this is bull$hit.

First of all, there is no mention of what OS they will run, and if they do run Windows, which they most likely will, who will be responsible for patches, updates, virus definitions. Will the kids learn to defrag. their own hard drives? Can they take them home? What about monitoring? Does the school have keyloggers or keep track of cookies, history files? What if the student uses the computer (school property) to do something illegal (online gambling, pr0n, whatever...)

I believe I read an earlier article in either the News or Free Press that interviewed a family..the student indicated she couldn't wait to get her school laptop since her sister is always using their home PC.

I'd like to know more information before the kids get their hands on these computers.

Re:My choice

[BWJones]

An examination of the total cost of ownership has revealed in the past that Macs simply cost less to own. They retain their resale value much better than the equivalent Wintel PC, they cost less to administrate which means lower salary costs, lower benefits costs etc... to the school district. However, the real stickler in many of these issues is that the school IT folks depend on Wintel to maintain their jobs, so I guess the benefits depend upon which perspective you maintain. As a taxpayer however, I want the best return on my investment. Go with the Macs.

Pros and Cons

[Polarcow]

Mac OS X
---------------
Pros: Lack of virii, easy remote administration, friendly interface, Office suite, flexibility, able to network easily with other Macs and (slightly more difficultly) with Windows or Linux/Unix
Cons: Some people won't touch a Mac because they're predisposed into thinking it sucks.

Linux
--------
Pros: Lack of (numerous) virii, relatively easy remote administration, stable, cheap, flexible, able to network with other computers running Linux/Unix Windows, Mac
Cons: Slightly more difficult, espeically troubleshooting

Windows
-------------
Pros: "Everyone" uses it, likely least infrastructure changes, perhaps some familiarity
Cons: Unstable (don't even talk to me about XP, it's just as bad), open to virii and numerous other vuln's, potentially difficult troubleshooting (believe me, I've worked with other college kids' computers in the dorms)

Verdict
----------
Who cares as long as it's not Windows! Though with the recent debacle with Dell's mandatory license agreement, the Macs might be the better option.

Re:Ibooks for all

[nullard]

Strange, the only way I can make my mac crash is by using unusual kernel extensions to make my serial adapter work. Otherwise, it never crashes. We have infrequent but anoying WinXP crashes at my office.

Re:Durable enough?

[pheared]

They need these. [msn.com]

Re:But Why?

[vianetman]

Agreed! Take that cash and pay some teachers!

Technology in the classroom can be a wonderfull thing, but it can never replace the influence of a caring, motivated instructor.

Re:Durable enough?

[rsborg]

They need these [msn.com]

From the article (emphasis mine):

"No wider than an entry-level ThinkPad but much thicker and heftier, the $4,500 GoBook MAX is a waterproof, vaporproof, shockproof piece of field equipment."

Hmmm, I wonder why the state wouldn't consider these?

Re:Misguided Spending

[SteveOU]

I totally agree with this sentiment. Computers are a wonderful tool, especially for providing repetitive, adaptive practice so that students can improve their proficiency at a skill. But I think this money would be much better spent raising teacher salaries. Most teachers I know get paid so poorly that the really competent ones move on to better paying jobs.

Re:Does this really make sense?

[JPM NICK]

I could not agree with you more. As a newly graduated college student who majored in computer engineering and electrical engineering, I think this post is right on. I have my computer from my freshmen year, which was fall of 1999. It is a PII 333mhz with 128mb of ram. When I got this, it was a great box. It came with NT 4.0 on it, but now has red hat. For most users, Win 98 would be the only other choice, as XP needs more system requirments that this. So what good would this box do for Joe User now? (I actually have it is a file server, but most people would have chucked it by now after the hard drive crash of 2001). What good is a laptop going to do for these kids besides cause a headache? When I was in 6th grade I had enough trouble remembering my house key and glasses where ever I went. I would never trust 6th grade me with a 1000 dollar laptop. Between hard drive failures, cracked cases, failed LCD's, and general misuse like file sharing and music listening, you are just asking for kids to get in trouble. Imigine the attention span of a 6th grader in class with something as cool as a new laptop next to him with a teacher droning on about History. Forget it. The money should be used for computer labs and teachers to supervise them. That way, kids can go after school to do reports or use the net. Giving away laptops is an insane idea, the cost over the next 5 years will be the same as the inital layout, which will be a massive amount of money and time. Another thought: if students are required to have these laptops, I am sure the cirruclum will be written to include these in everyday classroom activities. What will happen if your laptop dies, or you lose it. Its not like a text book where you can share and all the information is the same as the one next to you, your laptop is unique with your personal information. Will you then get a failing grade?

Re:My choice

[code_echelon]

"As a taxpayer however, I want the best return on my investment."

Then you should not go with Macs or Windows, you should go with Linux since it has all the features that would be neccessary for the students to use and is free. This also would allow them to lockdown and only install certain parts of the OS that would be neccessary for school work. I have also read studies similar to the one you use as an example that say the opposite about resell value. In many cases the users also have a harder time selling the Macs due to the fact that they are used by very few people. Apple is less than 10% of the OS market and this would also restrict them to be locked into a hardware deal with Apple(the PC market has many great third party peripherals while Apple has very few and is not going to get many more). Furthermore the majority of students have a Windows PC at home and may have difficulty in using things that they have created at home on the Mac.
All in all, I would stay away from any Mac purchase, there is nothing that these students need a Mac for and there a quite a few reasons to stay away from it. Windows would probably be the best fit since it is so prevelant and this is probably what the students are used to, however I would prefer them to use Linux because it is more cost effective and can be configured to fit there specific needs much more than the other two. Remember that the students only need basic computer applications and that they are not going to be doing anything that is going to stretch the hardware or require a Mac, if your going to go away from what the users are used to you might as well go to the one that is more configurable and free.

Re:I'd buy Macs...

[Lord Kano]

TCO. That's what the REAL bottom line is.

In a business, you'd be right. That is not the case with schools.

The Macs will cost less because of the lower IT staffing requirements.

Schools don't really have the luxury of being able to float bonds like businesses (or even municipalities), It is far more feasible for a school to budget more money for an IT staff each year than it is to get more money up front.

Unfortunately, that's the same reason many school IT administrators will go with Windows. Less staff = a smaller fiefdom for the managers.

It's far more complicated than that. Colleges tend to have Windows-centric programs, so when the IT managers enter the workforce, they are more experienced with Windows. Also, Windows runs more of the programs that the users they support will want. IT managers also favor windows for a reason that is not as true anymore, parts availability. Though it's not like it used to be, the time was that you couldn't get parts as readily for Macs. When the rest of the computing world was using IDE, Apple was still gung ho SCSI. Apple Switched to DIMMS back when the rest of the world was still using 72 pin SIMMs. Old lessons die hard.

LK

Maine's program

[dv8ed]

Maine started a program like this a while ago (but with 8th graders), and it has had predictably mixed results. We gave out iBooks. The decision to use iBooks rather than a PC notebook ended up being a good one, not because of students or because of IT support, but because the teachers didn't know how to use either and learned the iBooks faster than they would have a Windows machine. The school districts where the teachers now know the technology have been making good use of it; the ones where they don't know it it has been wasted. Worry more about the teachers than the techies.

Re:Does this really make sense?

[patman600]

What will happen if your laptop dies, or you lose it.

you deal without it. Shit happens, life goes on. I am currently a senior in high school. My school has had a laptop program since 1998. When you lose your laptop, its like losing your binder. Except you can back up your files and you won't lose that paper you have spent the last 3 weeks working on. Theft can be a problem, but most laptops have been stolen from homes. The only theft incident I know of on campus was a few students organized to steal the laptops, then pass them on to someone else who wiped the hard drives and sold them. The students were found, and expelled. If a part dies, we have an authorized repair center on campus, with a staff of 3-5 for about 600 students and 125 faculty. We can get new parts generally within 24 hours, and always within a week. It helps that we are in Houston, the former headquarters of Compaq, the brand of laptops we use. The teachers are understanding of various failures, but most of the time its not a problem. Most of the problems are superficial, like cracks in the cases. The cracked lcd's are generally usable for a day or two until you can get it replaced. I know people that have gone for 2-3 months with a cracked lcd. Hard drive failure is not common, I have heard of 1 or 2 in the last 3+ years. The biggest problem is people installing bad software that corrupts their computers. Win 2000 service pack 3 and 4 are incompatible with our model, and a lot of people got burned in that debacle. And yes, you can share most of the information. If you can't take notes because your laptop died, or you are sick, or anything, you can get a friend to just email the notes. Teachers can email powerpoint presentations. Assignments can be emailed. After all my experiences with laptops in schools, I would say they have a very positive effect. The problems are different, but no more difficult than problems that already exist, like losing books, binders, forgetting pens, etc.

as for distractions, those exist without laptops as well. People play hangman, tic tac toe, dots, etc. Instant messenger can be blocked (as it is in my school). And people learn to deal with distractions. Laptops are generally only out when there is work to do on them. After a while, students do learn to deal with distractions. And teachers have the power to make you put your laptops away, or confiscate it if need be. Already cell phones have games and instant messenger, and can be used in school.