IT (And Other) Salaries On The Rise In The U.S. 780
pertinax18 writes "CNN Money is reporting that salaries for most college grads are on the rise once again. Especially interesting to collegiate (and other) /. readers may be the 4.1% increase in pay for CS grads, and 10.7% increases in pay for others in the field. From the article: 'If those numbers sound enticing, it's probably because computer science graduates are long overdue for a pay increase. "They haven't seen an increase since 2001 and this is the first year, in all four reports, that they showed an increase," Koncz says.' Are things finally starting to look up for us?"
Are they really? (Score:5, Interesting)
The sky ISN'T falling (Score:2, Interesting)
IT is still alive and will continue to be a career with prospects in the USA.
Not everything can/should be outsourced.
Raise? (Score:2, Interesting)
Meanwhile the administrators are trying to get 17% and I don't mean retroactive or anything, just a big fat raise.
Question (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, it certainly seems reasonable to assume that the two are related...but...?
Where's my job then? (Score:3, Interesting)
I know of one person who moved from Texas (where he lived and graduated) to DC just because the odds were better that he'd get a job. Didn't work.
trimming off the bottom (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The sky ISN'T falling (Score:2, Interesting)
-Joe
Re:What a Crock (Score:2, Interesting)
So this may not be complete lies.
Got to be an average. (Score:3, Interesting)
Got to be an average- I've got my Bachelor's of Software Engineering, and I'm only making $42,000/year after 10 years of experience.
Re:What a Crock (Score:2, Interesting)
Agreed. Many of my friends are still looking at standing pat, in jobs that pay a heck of a lot less than they used to get with their BSCS.
I'm so cynical I have a tendency to view this as something originating with a wink and a nudge from a political party or supporting organization.
When are the next Job numbers due out? If job growth is still sluggish it doesn't strike me as the sort of thing to put upward pressure on wages as employers compete for talent.
Re:What a Crock (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Bush's Fault (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Got to be an average. (Score:3, Interesting)
--trb
Re:one omission (Score:2, Interesting)
You have to get laid off first. (Score:2, Interesting)
Since June of this year, I've been able to dictate my price. Recruiter calls up looking for experienced Enterprise Web Developer? $45/hour minimum. Period. End of story. No I won't take less, there's someone on the other line offering $50/hour.
Thanks for laying me off Sabre.
I call shenanigans... (Score:5, Interesting)
Unemployment in the IT sector is up (due to both outsourcing AND the struggling economy), so who cares if the people with jobs are getting a bit more money?
Furthermore, this article is talking specifically about fresh out of college newhires - something the person who posted this seems to avoid clarifying altogether.
Guess what? They're getting these jobs and their first increase since 2001 (CS graduates) because the older folks who were making $60k and are now unemployed are gone - a net savings of $11k.
Bottom line: It's still brutally difficult to find a decent computer science / IT job right now, and the people in them aren't getting huge raises. It's also important to note that there's complaints heard 'round the country from IT and CS folks about the fact that they're working ridiculous numbers of hours.
The insane high salaries of the tech boom, however unjustified they seemed at the time, were actually justifiable because these fresh out of college kids were often dumping 60-80 hours per week into their job. (Note that I agree that the rest of the spending during the tech boom, however, was just as stupid as everyone says it was).
Re:Bush's Fault (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Bush's Fault (Score:5, Interesting)
The times they are a-changing (Score:2, Interesting)
Another sign of things being on the mend - last week I got a call from a recruiter and I thought the species were near extinction!
My 0.02.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
I have (Score:2, Interesting)
By the way, I work for the government as a computer engineer. Your tax dollars at work! I guess this is the only sector that doesn't rise and fall with the economy...spend spend spend...
glut? (Score:1, Interesting)
HR then asks them the screening question. "I want to assign an anonymous array to a variable $x. The line starts 'my $x =', complete the line."
Most start having phone problems there and then.
For bonus points a few get asked what is the difference between
I could go on but it just gets depressing.
Alignment with European salaries? (Score:2, Interesting)
BTW, some invites for anybody who cares....
http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f70e1240a6-58bc0f
http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f70e1240a6-376a4f
http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f70e1240a6-e9139e
One Two Punch (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, so maybe my tinfoil hat is wrapped on a little bit too tightly...
But isn't it strange to put this story side by side with CNET's interview of Professor James Foley's warning about too few people going into computer science related studies. [com.com]
Of course, the professor has a vested interest in increasing the number of CS students and also in getting more research funding for CS projects - which is to be expected given where his bread is buttered.
He does make good points about the long term consequences of turning out fewer CS grads per capita than other countries, and about how younger researchers deserve a chance to do independent research without laboring as indentured post-docs under the wing of less creative mentors.
But trying to encourage more students to go into CS and IT right now is not necessarily as good a plan as trying to improve the education level of future CS students that are only 0-10 years old right now.
Sun follows suit (Score:1, Interesting)
That doesn't mean everyone at Sun is making what they made in 2001, for instance I've changed jobs 3 times and while each was a lateral move, each got a definite raise (in 2001 I was making 80% what I make now), it only means those people in the same job as 2001 are finally getting some increase.
Of course at the same time as all of this I've witnessed a ton of layoffs. If you averaged in the layoffs Sun is obviously paying FAR less salary even with the increases.
Re:What a Crock (Score:1, Interesting)
Well...for what it's worth, I am up about 20% from this time a year ago. I think it depends on location...where I am located has a lots of work in general (fair sized city), plus it's the state capitol (lots of state contract work), plus there are two large military bases in the general area (lots of federal contract work). I had to change jobs to get what I have now...nice deal though.
If you can clean yourself up a bit (I can't wear old shorts and sandals to work anymore...got laid off from that job just over 2 years go) things are really pretty easy.
That being said, it's been an exceptional year...I am only expecting about a 5% increase in the coming year...although sometime after that I should be able to possibly climb another rung (technical, not management, btw) in the evil corporate machine.
Life is pretty good around here.
Re:Good news for all, not just American IT workers (Score:3, Interesting)
Besides, there a lot of Sikh software engineers in India, so dont understant your point. If any.
4.1% (Score:3, Interesting)
"Just not in Delaware.." (Score:3, Interesting)
So, here's my $0.02 on your approach and how to change your luck. Note up front that your problems are most like all about what you AREN'T saying.
First of all, I like the $500 idea. FWIW - It's kind of cool and shows some spunk. But, asking people to go ahead and tailor YOUR resume to THEIR needs isn't appropriate. You'll want to assert yourself more strongly than that. Keep reading for why..
Your requirement that the new position NOT be in Delaware seems to indicate that you would be willing to relocate to somewhere else in the country. That's fine. But, it sends the implied message that you don't really care where you land. And that implies that you aren't necessarily going to be dedicated to remaining in that area (and, by extension, that job). All of that put together screams "train me for free and give me valuable experience so I can go work for someone else as soon as humanly possible". Keep in mind that I'm interpreting this from the perspective of an employer.
Secondly, your resume is asking for a development position OR a system administrator. I understand your desire to be flexible. You probably just want to go with the flow, be agreeable, and land your first job. That's well and fine, but it doesn't get you noticed by an employer.
To make what could be a much lengthier post shorter, I would suggest that you develop a more specific vision of what you want out of your first job. Decide on one area in which you would like to live (metro areas are preferred for fresh graduates). Decide on a more specific professional specialization for your career. Then once you've decided all of that that, you'll be able to market yourself in a much more focused manner. You'll be able to say to an employer "Hey you want X right? I want to be doing that. Let me do it for you and show you how good I am at it. And hey look, I'm not too expensive either. It'll be good for both of us."
The bottom line here is that good employers understand that employees are not just interchangeable cogs. You have to show them how you will fit their specific needs. You have to show them how they'll be able to hand that piece of their organization to you and never have to worry about it again because you're driven, you're on target to be the best, and because you love doing it.
And that, in my opinion, is the difference between a career and just another job. Which one do you really want anyway?
Re:CS != IT (Score:2, Interesting)
IT was a business major at my school.
I am a Software Engineer / Computer Science with a BS from the College of Engineering at my school. With more upper division classes I could build bridges or making chemicals like my other Engineering friend do. Even Computer Science is a science discipline.
In most companies I have worked for, my development group reported to a CTO or VP of Engineering while IT groups report to CIO or VP of Biz. They are different.
I am not sure, but I think
Re:What a Crock (Score:4, Interesting)
I was employed in a bank's IT department. I got a 3.7% raise in May 2004 after I received my yearly eval. This came out to about $1040/yr gross.
Less than 2 months later, I got outsourced to some scumbag "IT Services" company as the motherfuckers had all been planning since Dec 2003. As a result, I lost a health-insurance stipend ($1120/yr). Furthermore, we lost the company vehicle and reverted to our own vehicles; my car costs me 30.5c/mi to run (I keep detailed records), but the mileage we're paid to cover all car costs is 22.0c/mi
So, gee, I got a 3.7% "rise", and 2 months later they contrived to have my income "fall" $1600/yr
I've been saving money like a fanatic, knowing this day must come. And it's still getting worse. I've at least $5000 loaned out to 3 friends for necessary payments (auto repair; mortgage and rent; electric bills; etc.)
I don't buy anything anymore. I'm never buying anything again. Capitalist America hung me out to dry and they'll never see me cooperate again. I live for the day when the Capitalists go out for long walks off their short window ledges when their nigger investments go south from the lack of credited consumers. The entire economy has been transformed into strip malls, junk bonds and websites. People have been transformed into appallingly credited hyperconsumers who are incapable of saving and meeting all future obligations. A grown person cannot expect to spend money like a 14-yr-old girl for decades and expect any good to come from it. Your houses are worth at most 60% of what you foolishly call a "going market rate", and I'm going to have my blackest laugh at you when you shed big tears over how much your property taxes are costing you when you still can't find work.
Fuck you, America! You can't eat money, and paper also makes for poor radioactivity shielding too. Die the nasty death that every Empire must encounter.
Re:one omission (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm afraid I must take issue with your very first assumption. The mere availablity of so much related IT talent is what made Silicon Valley a hotbed. Essentially, my counter-argument goes like this: With the number of skilled workers growing while the job numbers remain in check, now is the time to start your own company and give these people a job.
Makes sense to be a contrarian. If more people than just me believe in that, then job growth is partially dependent on the available work force. In other words, the more people out there, the more jobs, rather than a finite and fixed number.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Actually, you CAN kill the economy in 2 months. (Score:3, Interesting)
I was. In fact, I worked at a company that sold to the CLEC market. The collapse of the CLEC market had nothing to do with who was in oval office; CLECs, like many other new companies, failed for legitimate business reasons.
Starting a CLEC means a huge capital investment before booking the first sale, think 50 - 100 million. You need ATM switches, DSLAMs, premise equipment, billing and equipment management systems, 911 systems, service huts, trucks, office space, trained employees, etc.
These companies were competing with ILECs, (incumbent local exchange carriers, think US West) that already made the bulk of investment to service customers, and did so at a lower cost because they could access capital markets at a much lower rate. Bigger companies have a higher marginal efficiency of capital, and in a capital intense industry like telcom this made all of the difference. Pair with the expectation of big returns when investing in a start-up, and the CLECs were paying quite a bit to access the capital markets.
Furthermore, much of this investment was occurring in a market with large excess capacity. Given the low marginal cost of servicing customers, the ILECs could easily compete with the CLECs on price and frequently offered better service. I'm not saying the ILEC service was good in an absolute sense, just better than most CLECs.
Re:Bush's Fault, Clinton's Fault, Bush's Fault, Re (Score:2, Interesting)
Had he just said "Look people, we gonna kick that ass once and for all because right now we have troops down there and he is overdue" then we'd have been a bit pissed but most of us would have said "Oh, well. Hussein is an ass so WTF why not." eventually.
Bush basically pissed on everything positive democracy has managed to spit out over the last few decades and THAT will return to you a hundred fold. Europe doesn't like you. It likes you even less than before (but before it was mostly jealousy). And while you might argue that Amercia can do quite well on its own: That's right but it's a lonely and expensive world if you have to do everything on your own.
For all it's worth I hope that Kerry wins and actually corrects some mistakes. He won't be perfect. Nobody is perfect. But at least he could TRY to get closer to Europe again. Be a dependable partner and you'll have dependable partners.