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Education IT

IT Literacy Test 302

Posted by michael from the turning-off-clippy-worth-5-extra-points dept.
crumley writes "The Educational Testing Service just announced a new test that is designed to measure information technology literacy. The test is supposed to measure the ability of students to use software to solve problems, and not just how to use particular programs. So has anyone out there taken a test like this? Did it seem to measure critical thinking and problem solving skills?"
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IT Literacy Test More

IT Literacy Test

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  • 2 hours = Useful project? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by manganese4 ( 726568 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:37PM (#10767902)
    one wonders how in two hours one can truly test someone's compentency when most projects requires at least 2hours to determine the source of the problem
    • Dude, you can tell in 30 seconds if a person is computer literate just by observing how they use a computer.

      I.e. when you say "click that link", and they ask "which (mouse) button"?, you know you're in trouble...


      • Re:2 hours = Useful project? (Score:5, Funny)

        by AvitarX ( 172628 ) <(me) (at) (brandywinehundred.org)> on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:55PM (#10768114) Journal
        It's even worse when the test computer is a Mac.

        (based on personal expieriance).
      • I.e. when you say "click that link", and they ask "which (mouse) button"?, you know you're in trouble...

        Yeah that's a dumb question... I would ask "click what link?".
        Maybe you were pointing with your finger? Sorry, I couldn't see that, only read your comment.

        He who asks is a fool for 5 minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.

      • How about when you say "click that link" and they double-click it? All day long I'm telling people "you only have to click links once" and then watching them double-click the next one they come to...
      • You haven't said if this is your computer or the users computer.And also have not indicated if it is a one button mouse, or two or three.

        If your computer, if you are using firefox, opera, mozilla, konqueror or lynx or safari.

        You also have not indicated if middle button is set for tab, and the right button is set for new window for three button mouse, or what the mouse button setting is for a two button mouse, or what meta keys are used for a one button mouse.

        Or is this lynx browser ....

        Sorry not enough

  • Take the test but... (Score:5, Funny)

    by icekillis ( 777986 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:37PM (#10767904)
    Take the test but ya be warned: Failing even one question will result in a one year suspension of your Geek Licence.

  • Yahoooo! (Score:5, Funny)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:38PM (#10767913) Homepage Journal
    They got the URL wrong - of course if you can't figure out how to fix it, you fail the literacy test. anyway it's a slash, not a backslash. (If you can't tell those apart, that's an automatic fail, too.)

  • How about an IT *Design* test? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:39PM (#10767919)
    Whoever designed Slashdot's IT [slashdot.org] colorscheme fails!

  • It is a shame (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gtooth ( 592044 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:39PM (#10767923)
    While this is a good measurement of progress for our current interface and will be useful to measure the average worker. I expect it to be hopelessly interface dependent. There is more than one good and useful GUI or TUI (is there another name for a text only UI?)

  • funny thing is ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Hognoxious ( 631665 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:39PM (#10767926) Homepage Journal
    ...it's pencil & paper based!

  • I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ErichTheWebGuy ( 745925 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:39PM (#10767928) Homepage
    ... but a test like this seems long overdue. I can't tell you how irritated I get when some new snotnose paper-MCSE comes strollin into my office thinking they know everything. If the test is accurate, fair, and relevant, I might consider it as part of the candidate screening process when hiring new IT workers.

    • Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by eln ( 21727 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:47PM (#10768023)
      Any test will necessarily miss relevant skills, and will over- or under-emphasize certain things. If you can be a paper-MCSE, there's no particular reason to believe that you can't be a paper-"IT literate".

      The idea of this test is fundamentally flawed. If you are good at problem solving, you will be good at problem solving in a technology-rich environment or a technology-poor environment equally. Analytical thought and problem solving has been around a lot longer than computers, and the same people that are good at solving problems with computers were good at solving problems with other things before computers.

      I've always hated technology tests, because they necessarily favor a particular way of doing things, and show a clear bias to the solutions preferred by whoever came up with the test. My techniques are rarely the "industry standard" techniques, so I often find myself on tech assessment tests choosing the answers I know the test creators think are right, even if in my experience they aren't the best or most efficient way to do things.

      • Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by IWorkForMorons ( 679120 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:13PM (#10768296) Journal
        My techniques are rarely the "industry standard" techniques...

        Man, when I was in college, we had 8 or 9 different "Industry Standards". While most teachers were absolutely convinced that their method was the "Industry Standard", there were a few knowledgable enough to explained the whole thing to us. Mostly when people talk about "Industry Standards", it's manager-speak for "The Way We Do Things Here." So if you don't follow the "Industry Standards", you will not be working for long.

        Also keep in mind that "Industry Standards" in the sense that I'm talking about has absolutely nothing to do with real ISO or QS standards. Those are actual organizations that create a set of standard rules for companies to follow, usually for the safety of workers and quality assurance of products. No, I'm just talking BS manager-speak...

      • Meta knowledge (Score:3, Interesting)

        by RealProgrammer ( 723725 )

        My techniques are rarely the "industry standard" techniques, so I often find myself on tech assessment tests choosing the answers I know the test creators think are right, even if in my experience they aren't the best or most efficient way to do things.

        But you know what the best practices are (or were at the time they became codified in a test). If you are mindful of what the standard way is, you can at least choose it when there is no reason not to do it that way.

        Also, when the time comes to make p

      • Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Informative)

        by Otter ( 3800 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:24PM (#10768442) Journal
        Because somebody's got to R the FA...:

        This is a test of familiarity with basic office application paradigms -- do you understand how to use the two dimensions in a spreadsheet or the relationship between database fields and data? It has nothing to do with administration (although I've encountered admins who didn't understand either of those things).

      • The idea of this test is fundamentally flawed. If you are good at problem solving, you will be good at problem solving in a technology-rich environment or a technology-poor environment equally.

        I don't think this is necessarily true. I would rephrase this to say that those that can solve technology-rich problems are as *capable* of solving similarly difficult technology-poor problems, but they may not be as practiced in the technology-poor problem domain. Given that such tests are timed, familiarity can be

      • If you really want to know if someone can perform a task, then ask them to perform it for you. It's called a "skills based exam".

        Most of the IT exams are fact based exams. The CCIE is skills based as are some portions of the RHCE. Never have I even heard of a paper-CCIE or paper-RHCE, because it's not possible to pass unless you can peform the tasks within the exam.

        Fact based exams are easy to write, easy to administer, and easy to design supplemental study guides / course schedules / etc. Skills base
      • Hey, I don't exactly use "Industry Standards" either. I'm all for newer, and better tests. Especially sledgehammer tests, which test your proficiency with a sledgehammer when used against cubish, metallic objects. Specifically, objects of 2 feet in height, 2 feet in depth, and 1 foot in width, and encased mostly in aluminum.

      • Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by wtrmute ( 721783 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:54PM (#10768728)
        The idea of this test is fundamentally flawed. If you are good at problem solving, you will be good at problem solving in a technology-rich environment or a technology-poor environment equally. Analytical thought and problem solving has been around a lot longer than computers, and the same people that are good at solving problems with computers were good at solving problems with other things before computers.

        Funny, my grandpa is an electrical and civil engineer (class of '51), has managed some pretty large projects on his own, and served as a kind of guru to probably half the population of engineers in Rio de Janeiro in the 70's and 80's. However, he has only learned to use MS Word and Excel after extensive coaching, and even today will get stuck if something unexpected happens (like, say, a button disappears from the Excel toolbar). Computer literacy, and especially the UI concepts like what is a menu, toolbar, link, etc, what is drag-and-drop, and some most general notions of OO (in the form of plug-ins and OLE/COM/CORBA/Bonobo) go a long way in allowing people to understand how software usually works.

    • If the test is accurate, fair, and relevant

      Get a grip. It will weed out the 'tards, nothing more.

    • Re:I haven't taken anything like this... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Chundra ( 189402 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:57PM (#10768143)
      Um...this is from the ETS, dude. You know, the same folks who brought us the uber-useful SAT and GRE. Of course, those are both completely unbiased and highly accurate exams that let universities see the true potential of their applicants. Given that, we can all rest assured that this test will be a truly wonderful addition to the pre-employment screening process. Besides, it will dramatically lower the ROI, and that, my friend, is key.

      *cough*
    • Wow... I would much rather see less emphasis placed on weeding out paper-MCSE's and more toward weeding out folks who have NEVER used a computer. OR that do not want to know more than they 'have' to.

      I have worked in several software companies that hired people merely for common religious beliefs or because they had a degree in hand. This could be for physical therapy, perfect candidate for network administration.

      The majority of the 'tests' I have taken for jobs are a joke anyway.

      Personality tests... anyo

  • In other news (Score:3, Funny)

    by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:41PM (#10767950) Homepage Journal
    The ETS created a test to see whether or not people deserve to live. To take the test, one has to fork over $5k and a kidney, but ETS says that this test is necessary, "For the continuation of our species"...who am I to question the ETS.....

  • Silly Me (Score:2, Funny)

    by b3s ( 807077 )
    I always thought spatial IQ tests checked one's capability for critical thinking.

  • Great (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    But of course, since the low-budget public schools can't afford the computer technology, they will have to lower the standards bar yet again to be fair. I hope you all remember how to use the Apple II.

    -- Saturn SL1-WNY -- Propz: GNAA

  • cant forget the onion (Score:5, Funny)

    by aardwolf204 ( 630780 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:43PM (#10767976)
    When we were kids we had MAN this and MAN that. Now you whippersnappers have your fancy F1, and ICT literacy assessments. We didnt even have F keys and we had to flip switches both ways, in the snow!

    Now get off my lawn j00 l33t whippersnappers!

    and something about an onion on my belt

  • Here is your test.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by lottameez ( 816335 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:45PM (#10767992)
    Question 1:

    File Edit View Favorites Tools Help.

    What does this mean?

    Question 2:

    What is that little X thingy in the upper right hand panel?

    If you can answer these questions correctly, you're technically competent. If not, you have a bright future as a technology patent examiner.

    • Question 1:

      File Edit View Favorites Tools Help.

      What does this mean?

      It's means you're in hell.

      Question 2:

      What is that little X thingy in the upper right hand panel?

      For getting rid of Clippy.

  • Purdue Univ IST Program Entrance Exam (Score:5, Informative)

    by kanwisch ( 202654 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:47PM (#10768022)
    Back in 1999, I was a chemical engineer looking for a change of pace. Purdue was desperate for computing folks, so they offered a program called Information Systems and Technology Eduction Program.

    The entrance exam was a test that determined your ability to think logically and break down the wholes into their parts with appropriate linkages. It included block diagram puzzles and other assorted logic statements and questions. Not a single line of code anywhere in it (that would have defeated the purpose). I took the test, did well, and was hired.

    So, these things have been around for quite a while, at least since 1999.

  • ETS (Score:5, Informative)

    by DarkSarin ( 651985 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:47PM (#10768024) Homepage Journal
    I was going to respond to a comment by someone else, but nothing previously posted merited a response of any sort (with the possible exception of the bitter guy who seems to hate ETS).

    Personally, from a psychometrics point of view, which is something I have a more than passing interest in, ETS is incredible. They have data sets that are invaluable, and have done a lot to further the field of testing. Yes, they do make a lot of money, but I can say that they also earn that money.

    If you think otherwise, consider it this way--for every test that they publish there are literally thousands of hours of research, testing, and retesting that have been done. Those doing this work need to be paid, and they typically demand fairly generous salaries (IRT analysts aren't that common, and certainly earn their pay).

    Now, that said--wait a few years before you spend a ton of money on this one. That time is critical in making absolutely certain that the test really predicts success or ability. In a few years, we'll know.
    • I think these tests seem to be weak on the causality side because they assume that by taking "good" computer literate students, finding out what the skill sets they have in common will continue to identify "good" computer literate students after enough people have been exposed to the test to create "brain dump" style cramming programs.

      I remember the uproar in our county when testing for computer skills in our county government employees started, of course the county used MS Word for word processing, and t

    • Re:ETS (Score:4, Insightful)

      by joebolte ( 704665 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @06:15PM (#10770376) Homepage
      You are obviously an employee of ETS or severely disconnected with reality.

      Your points mainly address the amount of effort that goes into these tests. A lot of useless effort is just that- useless effort. An the GRE and SAT and worse than useless, since they arbitrarily make some people appear much better problem-solvers than they are.

      It is fairly common knowledge that the SAT and the GRE, the two other tests for which this organization is known, have little to no correlation with the skills that they supoosedly measure. You can google some pages about the debate, but it's pretty one-sided as almost everyone with an opinion is in favor of dropping support for ETS and their tests.

      I am about to take the Physics GRE and my practice scores improved from mediocre to far above average in one week of no physics studying. The secret? Don't read the questions: only read the answers. Eliminate the ones that are clearly wrong and without solving the question, you just got the correct answer. I challenge anyone to explain to me how this anything to do with real physics problem skills.
  • Yeah ok whatever... IT today is tomorrows trash. There is no test for an industry that moves this fast. You either get it or you don't What's next? A hacker test? How are you going to test that? The person that steals the answers first from the school files gets the highest grade?
    • Actually, there are such things as hacker tests... one of the better known examples is Capture The Flag [ghettohackers.net]. (Also see here [google.com].)

    • What's next? A hacker test? How are you going to test that? The person that steals the answers first from the school files gets the highest grade?
      No, it's the person who first dumps a bunch of kiddi porn on the principle's box and then blackmails him/her who wins.

      Actually, considering how easy it is to access most of their accounts, it's not a valid test (been there, done that, got the password within the mandatory 3 guesses).

  • There are other examples... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lukewarmfusion ( 726141 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:50PM (#10768062) Homepage Journal
    Many are familiar with the often frustratingly cryptic interview questions from Microsoft and others... my favorite (which I would certainly use if I were running a support department):

    "You come home and flip the switch, but the lights don't come on. Describe in as much detail as you can how you would go about fixing the problem."

    Most people I've asked respond with "replace the light bulb." While that might be the problem, I think the first thing you should do is try the switch again. Maybe you didn't flip the switch all the way, or you hit the wrong one.

    The point is that it's a problem solving experience - and not just in technology. It doesn't require expertise in Microsoft Word. It doesn't take a techie to know this stuff. You can measure a person's aptitude for logic, problem-solving, etc. without ever testing specific examples of those skills. That's what I really like about that question. Hopefully, the ETS exam will take this perspective when developing such tests.

    • Re:There are other examples... (Score:5, Funny)

      by jav1231 ( 539129 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:59PM (#10768152)
      I'm not sure about the "flip the switch again." Maybe once but many end users take this approach to print jobs.
      User: I can't print.
      Tech: Okay, are you getting an error?
      User: No.
      Tech: Okay, let me check the queue and see if... ...okay, you have like 100 print jobs in there.
      User: I know, I kept trying and trying but it wouldn't print so I called you.
      Tech: Cool. Now 50 other people can't print either.
      • Just reboot the print server like we do. Works most every time. :-)
      • (several years before in the bowels of Hewlett-Packard)

        Interaction Designer: we really need to start designing the UI of this printing system from the very beginning.

        Programmer: Don't be silly. That's the purty GUI front-end part. We usually save that for last. Why would you want to do that first?

        Interaction Designer: So we can do things like build into the networked printing system stuff that will keep the user aware that their job is still being processed, so that they won't keep hitting Ctrl+P and wo
    • There's not nearly enough information provided to give a good solution to the problem.

      First, you'd obviously flip the switch again. If it still doesn't work, the answer depends on several factors. Is that the only switch on the wall? If there are multiple switches (like there are at my house), I'll flip another switch. If that light also fails to come on, I know the light bulb isn't the problem, or at least isn't the only problem. So, I'll look around the neighborhood. If I can't see any other light

    • Re:There are other examples... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by deinol ( 210478 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @09:10PM (#10772368) Homepage
      The best problem solving test I ever took was while applying for a job as a student tech. The boss put me in front of a computer with WordPerfect running on it. He said "change the background of the entire page to another color." and watched what I did for a while.

      What made this an interesting problem was, despite being able to go to the menu and look at, I forget exactly, but Format -> Page or something, and having some options there for changing some things, background color was not an option. So if you are me you dig around on the menu a while.

      Then you finally give up and pull up the help and search. Then you find the entry that says: To change the background color, go to Format -> Page and click on the background tab. Then select a new color. You say wtf (quietly) and go back to Format -> Page. There is no background tab. You go back to the help. Yep, that's what they told you to do.

      Turns out, by default, some checkbox on the first tab of the page properties dialog disables the tab you need to get to to change the background. Some seemingly completely unrelated checkbox. I got lucky, clicked around and found it. Then changed the background color.

      Turns out, I was the only person to have ever successfully completed the task. The purpose of the test was not to see if you could solve the problem. The purpose was to give an unsolvable problem, and watch the proccess you use to try and solve it. I thought that was a much better way to test skills.

      Lucky me, I figured out the solution, which so impressed them that I was hired, despite them having already picked someone else for the job (they just hired both of us instead).

      Try it yourself, I believe it was whatever version of WordPerfect was out in '98.

  • Testing... bah! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Gestahl ( 64158 ) <gestahl&gmail,com> on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:50PM (#10768065)
    What a useless thing to test. If you think logically and can break problems down, anything in operating computers simply comes down to Googling, reading, and thinking logically. This is about as useless as just a plain old IQ test, SAT, or any other standardized "bubble" test in assessing future work/educational performance. In fact, I bet an IQ test would be just as effective in this situation. My guess is that it is simply knowledge based, not action based (wasn't willing to drudge through ETS's corporate "Yeah us!" language). ETS should take a hint from Cisco. Their tests are difficult and actually ("GASP!") test performance in real world situations in solving real world examples and problems using real Cisco gear.
    • I call BS!

      Cisco doesn't test " real world situations in solving real world examples and problems using real Cisco gear"

      Cisco tests "real world situations in solving real world examples and problems using real Cisco solutions"

      Meaning if you don't do it "their" way, then it isn't correct!

  • schools and computer literacy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:52PM (#10768083)

    I'm the network admin for a school. I've been doing this for seven years and have been teaching computer classes for five. I teach the 7th grade how to do simple programming in LOGO. They learn the concepts of loops, variables, functions, etc. They learn how to take a problem, break it into parts and come up with a program to solve the problem. They also learn a bit of computer history and how to count and do simple math in binary. I believe I'm the only one doing this in my area.

    I deal with a number of people in my position in other schools. Without fail, the computer "literacy" classes in those schools is training in Microsoft Office. They're just training kids to use a particular version of a particular product from ONE company. They're not teaching them the concepts behind a modern word processor, they're training them how to click buttons in Word.

    When I started this job, I thought education was all about teaching people how to think and solve problems. I was wrong!

    I'm fortunate at this job in that I'm pretty much free to use whatever solutions get the job done. 80% of the machines here are Linux based terminals (using LTSP). I'm also fortunate that I won the old teaching concepts vs. training argument with the administration. I'm free to teach the computer literacy class however I wish.

    • LOGO? (Score:5, Funny)

      by JavaLord ( 680960 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:01PM (#10768174) Journal
      I'm the network admin for a school. I've been doing this for seven years and have been teaching computer classes for five. I teach the 7th grade how to do simple programming in LOGO

      People are still teaching LOGO? Holy 1982 Batman! Do they use a mouse to move the turtle nowadays?

      • Re:LOGO? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:10PM (#10768270)

        Yes, people are still teaching LOGO. What's wrong with LOGO?

        7th graders (as are most people) are into instant gratification. Using LOGO, I can start with the simple drawing commands. They type a command in and see the result instantly on the screeen. I start off with them having to draw simple shapes command by command. I then show them how to use LOGO's repeat command.

        The instant gratification aspect allows me to get them interested in computers and programming. The difference between 1982 and now is that few people in 1982 had computers and many of those that did learned to program them. Most people today see computers as nothing more than another appliance for doing email, shopping and IM and have no interest in learning how the machines work. Most schools certainly don't encourage anything more.


      • Why not?
        It is an excellent tool for learning programming.

        • Why not?
          It is an excellent tool for learning programming.

          Sort of... Good tool for teaching linear BASIC programming.

          Actually, logo is good for teaching geometry -> angles and relationships and stuff.

          The next step should be to move into PASCAL with turtle graphics. I found it to be a natural progression. Gets you out of that BASIC mindset.

          The thing about LOGO that sux arse nowadays is it's still Linear. At least PASCAL adds procedural programming.

          • Re:LOGO? (Score:2, Interesting)

            by fleck_99_99 ( 223900 )
            I disagree. My college Discrete Structures course (data structures, logic, recursion, topics like that) was taught in Logo. Logo is a list-based language, and actually comes across as somewhat of a "LISP Lite" when you start using it for this stuff. After the first day of screwing around, we never used the "Turtle" part of it again -- and it was FANTASTIC for breaking the C/C++/Java mode of thinking, so we could focus on studying the algorithms and the "real" take-away knowledge.

            You can certainly break

      • Re:LOGO? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by drinkypoo ( 153816 )
        I found logo to be an excellent introduction to procedural programming after having my mind poisoned with basic. I just wish that someone had tried to teach me data structures when I was young and impressionable. That's what I really need to learn.

    • I deal with a number of people in my position in other schools. Without fail, the computer "literacy" classes in those schools is training in Microsoft Office. They're just training kids to use a particular version of a particular product from ONE company. They're not teaching them the concepts behind a modern word processor, they're training them how to click buttons in Word.

      Exactly. I have the same problem at my school, I was required to take a "computer competecy" test that was really a MS Office test.

    • Re:schools and computer literacy (Score:4, Insightful)

      by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:48PM (#10768672)
      Without fail, the computer "literacy" classes in those schools is training in Microsoft Office. They're just training kids to use a particular version of a particular product from ONE company.

      I'll bet it's even worse. Our company bought a 'skills test' a couple of years ago. Very basic PC/Microsoft skills, to supposedly evaluate a new persons training needs.

      One in particular I remember was "How do you create a shortcut to an application?" Of course, there are several different ways to do this in Windows. If you didn't answer in the single, exact way they wanted, you failed the question.
      Our senior MS developer got a "Needs remedial training". (No, not because he's a crappy developer, or works with MS...but simply because the test was badly flawed)

  • Suggested Sample question (Score:3, Funny)

    by xThinkx ( 680615 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:52PM (#10768088) Homepage

    Q: You're browsing your favorite site full of neat little applications that will tell you the weather, customize your windows, and even let you download music for free when a pop up box tells you that your computer may be infected with DANGEROUS SPYWARE... You should...

    • A: Click the box, you wouldn't want to get infected!
    • B: Close the box, you're running windows, the worlds #1 safest and securest and bestest computer program
    • C: Go to start->search and type in "spyware", find the problem yourself
    • D: Strangle Yourself [thebestpag...iverse.net]

  • Took the CS Subject AGRE (Score:5, Informative)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:52PM (#10768089) Homepage Journal
    So has anyone out there taken a test like this? Did it seem to measure critical thinking and problem solving skills?

    To answer your question....I took ETS's CS Subject AGRE 4 years back after completing my Bachelors....and found it pretty interesting.

    The exam webpage (no time to dig it up) lists a few CS categories that they'll test on, and happily, these include all the core areas of CS. From memory, the list goes roughly as follows:

    Formal Languages and Automata Theory
    Algorithms
    Languages and Compilers
    Computer Architecture
    Logic
    Databases

    All questions were multiple choice like the regular GRE test (the pattern has changed since), but I liked the fact that they focussed on the "core" CS subjects, which every Bachelor's CS course should cover.

    New buzzwords like "IT" frighten me....hope they continue to adhere to fundamental knowledge than buzzwordish software/peripheral areas.

  • How am I supposed to get a job now? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Phantasmo ( 586700 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:53PM (#10768097)
    My carefully cultivated bullshitting skills... now rendered useless!!!

  • Probably redundant, but ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by RealProgrammer ( 723725 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @02:57PM (#10768141) Homepage Journal
    I find posting on this site [slashdot.org] to be very instructive. I usually get valuable feedback, whether my comments are interesting, insightful, or as is obviously the more typical case, completely inane.

    Perhaps it can serve as a model for a test.

  • Sounds like the "Canadian Computing Competition" that is (was?) run by the Univ. of Waterloo. You get five problems to solve through computer programming, as well as certain mathematical (CS-theory) questions of the worst-case execution time persuasion to answer. Each one was worth 20 points, though the first two were relatively easy and could be solved by bruteforce, and the last three took quite a bit of mathematical theory as well as programming skill to solve.

    I took that test in HS and scored #1 in my

  • Good Idea (Score:3, Insightful)

    by linguae ( 763922 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:04PM (#10768204)

    Part of the problem with computing these days is the lack of basic education that the users have about computing in general. There are many people that believe that the CD-ROM drive is a cup holder, that Microsoft is everything (how many users have you seen say that "Microsoft isn't working?" Incredible), don't know anything about the dangers of the Internet and properly securing their computers (i.e., installing a firewall, protecting themselves from viruses and malware by using anti-virus and anti-malware tools, and using Firefox or an alternative to Internet Exploder), don't know about files and folders, or other basic movements with a computer, and faint at the sight of having to learn anything that is more complicated than moving a mouse around and clicking an icon (command lines are a great example). I would love to see a required high-school or college test that tests on all of the basic computing ideas and tasks, plus a little more. Unfortunately, many high schools and colleges have already implemented MS-centric "computer competency" requirements that test on nothing more than how to use MS Office and Windows; they test on specific applications, not about how to use computers per sé.

    Am I saying that all of these people need to be tested on writing shell scripts, C programming, configuring ipfw/iptables, and compiling a kernel? Of course not! I'm just saying that I believe that all people using a computer need to be eduacted about the responsibilities and risks of having a computer, and all of the things needed to do in order to protect yourself. We all have to take driver's education and driver's training before we even step foot into a car, because we know the responsibilities and dangers of riding a car. When we get our cars, we have to learn how to maintain it, too. So, how come most users expect that their computers are magical boxes that don't need to be maintained or taken care of? The computer is a powerful multipurpose tool that can be beneficial when used correctly, but can also be a weapon (or zombie) if used incorrectly.

    • Re:Good Idea (Score:2, Insightful)

      by zeke-o ( 595753 )
      I have to take issue with a couple things ... People treat their cars exactly like they treat their computers .. much to the delight of those that repair them. The have no freaking idea of what happens when they turn the key or press on a pedal, much less have any idea what the idiot lights or gauges on the dashboard mean. The drivers license just says they have some basic understanding of the rules for operating so maybe they won't kill too many people on the road. They often have *no* clue as to required

  • Already tested (Score:3, Funny)

    by wombatmobile ( 623057 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:04PM (#10768208)

    .

    Did it seem to measure critical thinking and problem solving skills?"

    Apparently, these have already been tested elsewhere.

    The answer shocked [cnn.com] a few people

    .

  • Let's look at the test and the target criteria (Score:4, Insightful)

    by postbigbang ( 761081 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:10PM (#10768258)
    It's hard to know much about this test until we see it. Tests in general are measurements based on a body of knowledge. Maybe it's good, maybe it's not. Damning tests because they seem unfair is silly. Measurements are referential. Some have bad reference points and therefore can't measure very well. Some can, some tests age and become useless, some are good in specific areas. Without the knowledge of the test questions and the criteria for them, comments will likely be specious.

  • more questions... (Score:4, Funny)

    by zanderredux ( 564003 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:11PM (#10768279)
    IT literacy? What about....
    3. IBM product #7606 is:
    a) the media backplane card
    b) the AC power supply, 850W
    c) the DC power supply, 400W
    d) the LC-SC 50 Micron Fibre converter cable

    4. The RFC 1372 defines:
    a) The Telnet Remote Flow Option
    b) The RSync Flow Control Option
    c) The SSH Exploit Security Hotfix
    d) The Option to Control the Flow of Telnet

    5. A Windows NT crashes and reports that there was a KMOD exception at 0000:0E39. The stack trace reports that the SX register hold the value 1E. What is the cause?
    a) User violation of the drive assembly
    b) An userland program flow was directed into a null pointer
    c) An electric current fluctuation has tampered with the EEPROM.
    d) The crash is, actually, a system feature which tells IT personnel when to upgrade to the latest version of Windows.

    6. A customer calls the support and tells that his/her computer won't boot. You tell him/her:
    a) To check the power cable
    b) To make sure there are no objects pressing the reset key
    c) Asks whether they installed software other than the ones supplied. If so, tell them their platform is not supported.
    d) Directs thet to Level 2 support.
    Literacy. Hah. There's a lot of MCSEs around and I do not see how customers or prospective PHB employers will know the difference from one guy with a shiny MCSE from one who can write a X-11 game in less than 100 lines [slashdot.org]!

  • Leaked practice exam (Score:3, Funny)

    by sam_handelman ( 519767 ) <samuel,handelman&gmail,com> on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:12PM (#10768293) Journal
    You can take it here. [sparknotes.com] Free reg required.
  • th4t t3h t35t w45 c|-|3cki|\|6 uR 5k|llz @ r34|]1n6 |33t
  • ... to say [...]information technology literacy. The test is supposed to measure the ability of students to use software to solve[...]

    Probably it's just the little IT engineer devil from inside me, but determining IT literacy by measuring ability to use sw... wow, this really has to be the 21st century :P The idea is I could gather some questions for undergrad IT students which all would come from the field of information technology problems and it would show IT literacy without ever needing any software

  • ...is the name of a fine book, probably out of print by now, that exposed many of the fallacies behind tests that purport to measure aptitude rather than raw knowledge.

    I remember one wonderful example from the book that gave 4 reading comprehension questions from a recent SAT. I got all 4 correct - it was easy. The kicker is that the book leaves out the excerpt that the test-takers were supposed to read and comprehend. The test wasn't measuring reading comprehension nearly so much as it was measuring t

  • To succeed in today's - and tomorrow's - classroom, workplace, home, or technology-rich community, students need to know how to efficiently find, use, manage, and evaluate information resources so that they can create and effectively convey information and ideas to others. That is what the Higher Education ICT Initiative is all about: ensuring that individuals are proficient in ICT competencies so that they can improve their learning, their work, their lives, and their world.

    Yeech. "Create and effectivel

  • I'll wait... (Score:3, Funny)

    by CreatureComfort ( 741652 ) * on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:31PM (#10768517)


    I'll wait till the Transcender's come out for it before I attempt it... Is there a Boot Camp training being offered for it yet?

  • Too much testing, not enough Interviewing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by m11533 ( 263900 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @03:34PM (#10768548)
    Our society has gotten far to hung up on testing as a silver bullet. Tests are just attempts to measure something, exactly as a ruler measures length or a scale measures weight. But tests such as the one in the article are, due to their nature, far less accurate or precise.

    I see the introduction of yet another test as a poor substitute for one on one personal interviewing of the test subject. They are looking for a quick fix, one that is not people intensive when the fact is, people are best able to evaluate these complex abilities and skills, so long as they take sufficient time in doing so.

    This is just like "No Child Left Behind". Instead of investing in the people, in that case teachers to work with students, a battery of standardized tests are introduced as a substitute. Yet, there is no validation of the testing against its objective, while we entrust our decisions to those very tests.

    That is the biggest issue here as well. We are attempting to replace human judgement with supposedly objective testing, when it is precisely the complexity of that human judgement that is called for.

  • It's easier to test for incompetency (Score:5, Interesting)

    by WayneConrad ( 312222 ) * <wconrad&yagni,com> on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @04:20PM (#10768989) Homepage

    It's easier to test for incompetency than for competency.

    A company I worked for got so many liars applying for jobs that we made these rediculous little tests to give people. Here's a sample question from our C test:

    Write a loop that executes its body 10 times.

    Or for electrical engineers:

    What is the equation for Ohm's law?

    I thought these tests were a waste of time. I think I said something like, "If someone is breathing they'll pass it." Then I saw how many people who claimed "expert" on their resume failed the liar's test. Weeding out the liars left us with a much smaller pool of candidates.

  • How about just a literacy test (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Facekhan ( 445017 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @05:16PM (#10769654)
    I am continually amazed by the number of my fellow college students who can barely read. It has made me extremely cynical about college because a solid 2/3 of college students in all but the most selective schools are both cheating and/or functionally illiterate. I wish I was exaggerating but I am not.

    This is what is making me want to jump ship and get a job instead because If I have one more group project where my group consists of people who are just in college because they are supposed to be I am going to just say fuck it and start a business which is probably what I should have done.

    If 4 years of college costs about 100k on the average (including living expenses) then I think I would be a lot better off if I had just been handed 100k at 18 for a business or a property investment.

  • Oh the ironing... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Gleng ( 537516 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @05:41PM (#10769939)

    From TFA:

    For more information on the ETS ICT Literacy Assessment visit http://www.ets.org
    \ ictliteracy

  • Computer Driving Test. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Spudley ( 171066 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2004 @07:09PM (#10770992) Homepage Journal
    The Educational Testing Service just announced a new test that is designed to measure information technology literacy.

    You know, that concept sounds a whole lot like the "European Computer Driving Test" that all the kids here are taking these days.

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