Quake and Tsunami Devastate South Asia 744
pfb writes "From reuters, 'The world's fifth-largest quake in a century has hit southern Asia, triggering a speeding tsunami that crashed into Sri Lanka and India, drowning hundreds, and swamping tourist islands in Thailand and the Maldives.'"
Geez.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows in JAKARTA, Indonesia, were rattling, and some even broke. And that is a 2-3 hour flight away from the epicenter!
Re:Geez.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Felt nothing here *in* Singapore myself, but guys, I can't tell you how awed by the sheer REGION this covered; there was a 2m wave in, hold your breath, Seychelles [sabcnews.com] which is about twice as far from Indonesia as the Indian sub-continent is.
Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:3, Interesting)
What I'd like to know is - did the wave reach the east coast of Africa? Madagascar? did the Seychelles feel any of the effect? It was only this year a BBC documentary about tsunamis indicated they could easily travel across the largest oceans, but there hasn't been any news of African flooding.
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:5, Interesting)
As these events are rare around this part of the world there has so far not been a need to set up a warning system.
Is there even enough time to react? (Score:3, Insightful)
What could be done in that short amount of time, exactly?
Re:Is there even enough time to react? (Score:5, Insightful)
As near as I can figure out, all the tsunami warning efforts are focused on the Pacific rim. There simply aren't enough tsunamis elsewhere to make it worth the effort. Or at least so the theory went.
Why someone with a seismograph didn't look at the 8.9, look at a map, see the Indian ocean and go "Ya know, maybe we should warn someone" is beyond me. I guess 2 hours isn't that long when you don't have set procedures in place. Still....
It got reported in a somewhat timely manner (Score:4, Interesting)
And this one follows that 8. something quake that hit between tasmania and antarctica just the other day.
I think this story should be taken into consideration along with the asteroid stories, as this wave was only roughly 40-50 feet high, yet by some reports it traveled up to half a mile inland in some places. Just imagine one ten times higher (something like that) from a large asteroid oceanic strike.
But ya, you would think that their would be some sort of emergency alert tied to seismographs, that would automatically get posted to various radio and television and internet sources if it was of sufficient strength, ie, danger. I know we have this alleged emergency alert system in the US that will over ride the TV and radio stations OTA broadcasts, but no idea in other nations what they have for that. Civil defense is always lesser funded than military offense in most nations it appears. What would it really cost to develop a radio based alert system for these various nations? Cost of one jet fighter or tank? And it could be tied to cellphones for that matter through the various national carriers, say, in a true natural disaster (impending or otherwise) scenario, your phone might ring with a pre recorded short message.
I realise in the poorer areas it might be problematic, but surely someone in most areas has a phone or a radio or whatever, you don't have to get the message to every single human directly, just to enough of them in any given area for word of mouth to help out a lot. Wake up and alert one dude per poor village, he can go running outside yelling his head off for that matter, like "dang evac! Tsunami coming! Move it people!" something like that anyway. The old church bells ringing hard and fast deal.
Re:Is there even enough time to react? (Score:5, Interesting)
Realize that, like yourself, many did not associate the earthquake with a tsunami. CSI Miami (a US TV show) had a tsunami hit Florida in the program. So right now, when I hear "earthquake" and "water" my brain's primed to think "tsunami."
I imagine that a lot of earthquake people have the knowledge and training that they, too would think "earthquake." But they still may have been caught by surprise. The places that were close by could not be warned, and how many would have thought "hmmm - Sri Lanka's gonna get it?" It's a thousand miles away. Again, it may not have occurred to everyone.
For those it did occur to, there's the question "What do you do?" There may have been an assumption - "someone's got the job to issue the warning." If there is an appropriate "responder," often you can make things worse by trying to get involved and tying up resources as a result. So some may not have bothered because they thought that it would be handled. Others may simply not have known who to call.
I'm sitting here wondering. Let's say I'd been online looking at an Earthquake page when the 8.9 quit. Who would I have called to warn about a tsunami hitting Sri Lanka? I don't think I'd have thought my calling would do any good, first off. But let's say I put it all together and decided to start making calls. Who would I call? The Sri Lankan embassy? 911?
I have no freakin' idea.
This is why public safety organizations have emergency drills. Stuff like this happens and you do what you do every day. Who's job is it every day to warn the people of the Indian ocean if there's a tsunami? No one. So everyone did in the emergency what they do every day, which turns out to be just that - nothing.
The more I think of it, the more this looks like one of those events you learn from. At this point the question is, how much do you learn?
Re:Is there even enough time to react? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Tsunami are not a new scientific discovery
2. Tsunami happen rather frequently
3. Tsunami can be pretty fucking devastating , killing thousands and destroying billions of goddamned property
4. Seismic networks aren't science fiction or experimental genetics, but a _reality_
So I think, what the fuck is needed to make some world seismic network with early warning ? We can make ONU, but we can't make one fucking seismic early warning network
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe some of the countries didn't have any sort of tsunami warning system. The west coast of USA and Canada has the NOAA West Coast & Alaska Tsunami Warning Center [wcatwc.gov].
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:4, Informative)
A warning system should really be installed along the american southeast coast. The mountains/ocean shelves on several islands of the european/north african coast are extremely close to colapsing into the atlantic which would send enormous tsunamis towards USA. USA, as opposed to the countries struck today, can afford the systems...
going back to hoping my neighbours made it... they're on vacation in Phuket
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:2)
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:2)
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:2)
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:4, Insightful)
I think you need to educate yourself some more before passing such harsh judgement.
Re:Difficult to detect / prevent (Score:3, Informative)
NO WARNING SYSTEM
In Los Angeles, the head of the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center said U.S. officials who detected the undersea quake tried frantically to get a warning out about the tsunami.
But there was no official alert system in the region, said Charles McCreery, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's center in Honolulu.
"It took an hour and a half for the wave to get from the earthquake to Sri Lanka and an hour for it to get
More earthquake links (Score:5, Informative)
I keep a list of earthquake related resources [virtuelvis.com].
Brother vacationing Thailand... (Score:5, Informative)
He hasn't cotacted me yet, but even if he wanted to I doubt he could.
Fingers crossed!
p.s. The British Foreign office have set up an emergency help line: 0207 008 0000, I havn't been able to get through yet, its really busy.
Re:Brother vacationing Thailand... (Score:2)
Re:Brother vacationing Thailand... (Score:2)
Good luck!
Re:Brother vacationing Thailand... (Score:2)
He has already posted some pictures online.
Therefore I imagine that an internet shop would be the best bet to call home.
The government numbers are only pacifiers until the affected people themselves contact their home authorities, which is obviously not their first priority...
Re:Brother vacationing Thailand... (Score:5, Informative)
It was a very close call, Bridget got up in the morning, looked out of the window and saw it coming.
John and Briget started running
On the way they overtook one person, he was unable to keep up.
Some others who they were running with showed them the way to safety, the one guy they overtook, heh didn't make it...
John's feet got badly cut up and they lost alot of their items.
Quake Coordinates (Score:2)
(A friend in Madras mentioned the quake as soon as he felt it; I've since seen the estimates go from 650 dead to 1500, 3000, 4500, 6300, and now 7000.)
Video? (Score:2)
Tried Reuters, but there's not much to see.
Re:Video? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Video? (Score:2)
Re:Video? (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=260157 [www.vg.no]
Home video of the wave crashing in (Score:3, Interesting)
6300 dead at 15:13 GMT (Score:5, Informative)
It seems that a displacement in the sea bottom ocurred, moving 10-30 metres up along a rupture of 1000 km, causing a wave of hundreds of cubic kilometres of ocean water [bbc.co.uk].
7000+ dead at 15:30 GMT (Score:2)
And if that number isn't big enough, they're saying a million people displaced from their homes.
Latest News ... (Score:5, Informative)
Tsunami (Score:4, Informative)
Tech that would help? (Score:2)
I'm thinking of keeping things relatively cheap, yet as functional as possible.
Re:Tech that would help? (Score:2)
Re:Tech that would help? (Score:2)
For example, it's generally not the greatest idea to build right by the ocean. This is true just about anywhere - on the eastern coast of North America, beachfront houses get nailed by hurricanes; here in Hawaii we get the occasional tsunami; just about anywhere there are issues of erosion and at times high surf.
If you're somewhere - or across the water from somewhere - with seismic activity that can trigger tsun
Re:Tech that would help? (Score:4, Insightful)
a) Disaster management techniques: We in India need better processes in managing relief work after disaster has struck; compared to first-world standards, we're woefully under-equipped in terms of emergency medicine and an infrastructure that can rescue people within, say, two hours of something striking. Perhaps a volunteer force or something; we really can't be falling back on the Army each time shit happens.
b) (My personal favourite) A redundant communication network: More ham radios/VSAT terminals/whatever throughout the nation. Cheap and requires more of a community participation than governmental intervention (which (a) would need).
Full Moon (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Full Moon (Score:3, Informative)
Hope
Re:Full Moon (Score:3, Informative)
And they have prooved that the moons orbit does effect the land like tides, they did GPS measurements and found the land does indeed move, but you cannot see/feel it.
But dude, please do a statistical analysis of all quakes vs moon positions and get back to me.
Energy release (Score:5, Interesting)
If MN4 were to hit, estimated release is 450-2000 MT of TNT, so how does a Richter 8.9 compare.
Steve
Re:Energy release (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Energy release (Score:3, Informative)
There are several kinds of earthquake 'magnitude' measures, all of which yield similar numbers. Moment magnitude may be converted directly to energy:
Magnitude = log (energy in ergs)/1.5 - 10.7
For moment magnitude 8.9, this works out to 2.5 x 10^29 ergs, which is about 6 Million Megatons of TNT. The impact of 2004MN4 works out to an earthquake magnitude 6.2 to 6.6.
Re:Energy release (Score:4, Interesting)
I live in Penang, Malaysia (Score:5, Interesting)
My mom felt the quake at around 9, I didn't notice anything though. I'm very thankful Malaysia is relatively safe from quakes, but I feel so sorry for all who were affected.
From the shores of Chennai India (Score:5, Insightful)
Live Indian News .. (Score:2, Informative)
Newsfeed from Bangkok (Score:3, Insightful)
Creepy... (Score:5, Informative)
Kjella
Re:Creepy... (Score:3, Insightful)
I live in Coastal South India (Score:5, Informative)
I live in Chennai(Madras) [wikipedia.org],(Capital City of the State Tamil Nadu [wikipedia.org] - the region worst affected by the Tsunami in India ). For us, this is the first time ever something like a Tsunami hits our coast. The earthquake itself was not deadly but the tides alone were responsible for the death of more than 1000 people according to some reports. Since this happened early in the morning and the day being a sunday, not many people were awake at that time. In my city alone almost 100 poor fishermen who live in the huts along the seashore were washed away. Coastal regions in the Southern parts of my state where even more affected - a lot many were drowned in the flash floods. The fact that I was sleeping unaware of the whole thing at that time, less than a kilometre away from the sea, sends a shiver down my spine.
You can find some pictures here [sify.com].
Low Early, Tasteless Later (Score:5, Insightful)
I've heard no word in the news about Arthur C. Clark. While thousands are dead, he likely has a sturdy structure to live in, and it would be unlikely statistically he perished. Has as been posted though, he lives on the coast so really stating any odds would be hard. I hope he is alive, but only to the extent I wish anyone life and happiness. He has lived a full life, and should he be gone our concern should be with the living. Ironically should he have perished, it would probably inspire more aid for those left alive.
Hopefully the now approximately 6000 estimate wont climb much higher, but if the past is any guide expect this to grow at least past 20,000.
BTW is it just me, or does it seem in poor taste for News outlets like FOX and CNN to focus on possible American casualties when these kind of natural disasters happen? I can understand this in the case of Attacks and Bombings, since Americans could be the targets. But with thousands dead, the news agencies are scrambling to find out if one or two Americans snuffed it.
Re:Low Early, Tasteless Later (Score:5, Insightful)
For some reason, the human mind categorizes things according to how the object is related to the individual. If something is near, it's far more impactful than if something is far away. If you can see it, it has more impact than if you can't. If you are somehow related to the individual, the event makes a greater impression.
News organizations know this. By focusing on some aspect that relates to their viewers, they're more likely to draw in the viewer's interest.
Look at the readers of Slashdot. They immediately related to Arthur C. Clarke living in the area. It's how our brains work.
As far as numbers, on a cognitive level, we all know that 7000 is larger than 3000 is larger than 10. But our brains don't really grasp numbers over 7 too well. We might have a general feel for 100, and there's some indication that the largest natural human groups wind up around 160 or so. Beyond that, we don't connect to the numbers on a primative level. It's just big numbers.
As a human, it helps if you understand how your brain works, so that you can compensate.
Me? I like to snorkel. Reading about the scuba divers that probably got wiped out caught my attention. Through those scuba divers, my brain can now emotionally link to the tragedy. Stupid, but it works.
You think MS Windows is buggy? Look at the home-grown software your brain's running.
Earlier earthquake of 8.1 (Score:5, Interesting)
Massive earthquake felt in Tasmania [theage.com.au]
December 24, 2004 - 7:55AM
The world's biggest earthquake in almost four years has struck 800 km
off the coast of Tasmania, Australian seismological officials said.
Geoscience Australia said the quake, measuring 8.1 on the Richter Scale
hit the Macquarie Rise, in the Pacific Ocean, at 1.59am. [...]
I can't believe the prejudice here (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I can't believe the prejudice here (Score:3, Interesting)
"So many Americans" have given their lives to rescue many parts of the rest of the world from dictatorships in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. Where were you and where was your country when the Taliban were shooting women in the head on just the accusation of adultry, and Saddam Husein was killing hundreds of thousands just for sport? Perhaps you are from France, Germany or Russia, countries that were reaping
Re:I can't believe the prejudice here (Score:5, Insightful)
So we do our best - when a newsworthy event happens that is associated with mass death and destruction we should pause, give a moment of respect and sadness for the people affected and try to move on with our lives because we don't have much other choice. Yes, humans have evolved to be tribalist, to care first and foremost about those we are in some way connected to, those we live near, work with, talk to, and interact with and their loved ones. Let's not try to overly rationalize emotional experiences, they don't always fit into a neat logical framework.
But we could at least show a modicum of respect (and the vast majority of posts in this story do, it's just a few trolls and dickheads who are being actively nasty).
Aussie earthquake: tsunami? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm curious as to why a similar magnitude earthquake, also in the ocean, occurring off the coast of Australia shortly before this earthquake didn't cause a tsunami as well?
News about this earthquake here: http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11 778537%255E3462,00.html [news.com.au]
Not that I'm complaining, mind you, but I'm curious as to what the differentiating factor is between these two earthquakes which means one creates a tsunami and the other doesn't.
Re:Aussie earthquake: tsunami? (Score:5, Informative)
Quote from the article:
Earthquakes and Undersea Cables (Score:3, Insightful)
Wondering if the quake has caused any probs
Death Toll up to 11k (Score:4, Insightful)
If you can, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give some money to one of the many relief organizations that is working to help feed and shelter people in the affected zones. I am sure the International Red Cross would be a good place to start.
No Tsunami Warning from the NOAA warning Center (Score:4, Informative)
Basically, it says "THERE IS NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH IN EFFECT.".
Yes, of course, there was no tsunami in the region this warning center is responsible for. But who writes these reports? Is it sensible to just write "no tsunami warning", without specifying that it's a different story on the other side, in the Indian ocean? Wouldn't people writing these reports be supposed to be aware of it?
Anyway, that report, while it may be technically correct for it's region, sounds really weird to me.
Since the link is for the "latest report", and will change over time, here is the complete text of that page:
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/26/asi
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:5, Insightful)
Me too, I hope he is all right, along with the several hundred millions of other people who live in that region.
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:2)
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:4, Interesting)
the most affected are the squatters living in improvised huts near the beach. call me cold hearted, but they went there, they grabbed the land, refused all attempts to base them elsewhere.
atb
Suchetha
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:3, Informative)
However, as far as health is concerned, Dr Clarke is not fareing very well. I saw him on a wheelchair at a recent convention where he was a (the?) guest of honour.
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Arthur C. Clarke? (Score:2, Informative)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictu
goto picture 10.
CNN (Score:2, Funny)
Does it show the same stories over and over and over again?
Are the adverts intrusive and increasing?
You may wish to reconsider your statement.
Re:This is Geek news? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is Geek news? (Score:2)
Re:This is Geek news? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:This is Geek news? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This is Geek news? Well ... (Score:4, Interesting)
If you need a tech discussion, here's one, "How can you get the info to the people who needed it?"
Once the earthquake hit with a sea floor epicenter, everyone with a web browser knew a tsunami was going to hit somewhere. Again, no way to tell the people who needed the information. Seemed like the only thing we could do was just wait for news of further death.
Re:This is Geek news? Well ... (Score:2)
Re:This is Geek news? Well ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Indeed, the last tsunami we had was in 1977, which came with a cyclone; my grandpa was involved in some heroics [which he loves to narrate whenever we go to his place in rural India ;-) ]. I don't know if this is how it is in, say, Hawaii or someplace, but the morning that tsunami hit the coast, everyone apparently went to work normally. It was only by 10AM or so that word spread that the sea was coming in (to use a vernacular phrase for 'tidal wave') and by then, all they could do was to climb onto rooftops and wait for the waters to recede.
Re:This is Geek news? (Score:2)
I have excellent karma. Obviously the Internet is not like real life.
Score:-1, Flamebait
Time to update your sig...
Re:This is Geek news? (Score:2)
Not unpredictable, but probably unavoidable. (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately, you don't have much time between the quake and the tsunami hitting. I hear if Canary Island (The one ready to fall into the sea and wipe out the east coast) would cause a tsunami that could travel across the Atlantic Ocean in 45 minutes, and I read on the BBC that this most recent tsunami was going 2,000km/h, which seems to be roughly the same speed. Mind boggling though.
Also hurting any warning effort is how do you get a mass warning out to places like Sri Lanka? There's no mass media infrastructure and only the minimum of transport infrastructure. I suppose part of this tragedy is how unavoidable it was in these nations' current states. Only Japan has invested any significant amount of money in Tsunami warning systems.
Re:Not unpredictable, but probably unavoidable. (Score:2)
Nah. 500 mph seems to be a bout top speed quoted on the net. That's only about 800 kph - and Sri Lanka is about 1000 miles from the epicenter. There was time. Not much, and apparently not enough.
Re:Not unpredictable, but probably unavoidable. (Score:5, Interesting)
OTOH I don't think Tsunami's are a common event in this region so no one is prepared. If these things travel as fast as they say you're pretty much SOL.
I heard that in Krabi (Thailand) people notice the sea withdrawing uncharacteristically about 5 minutes before the first wave hit. Anyone can explain that?
Re:Not unpredictable, but probably unavoidable. (Score:5, Interesting)
As the wave approaches shore, the speed changes and the amplitude increases markedly. The water had to come from somewhere - as the wave approaches, the "tide" appears to pull back - but it will be replaced.
There's a Japanese story (don't know if it's true or a legend) about a man near his grainery on a hill who saw the water rushing out. The only way to warn the people below was to set fire to his grainery. Everyone came running to put the fire out....
Re:Not unpredictable, but probably unavoidable. (Score:2)
I remember thinking about sudden huge waves while lying on beaches and how long it would take before you realized something was wrong.
Only this year in the South of France a sudden change in the weather killed 3 bathers right in front of our apartment.
Best be careful out there.
'Inamura no hi' (Score:5, Informative)
So I googled.
see the full story [bo-sai.co.jp](Japanese page)
The story was known as one article of our very old language arts schoolbook of national elementary schools. It was published about from 1937 to 1947. I've never seen the text, of cource, but I think I heard this story from my teacher.
This is a story about a farmar and an earthquake which hitted Kishu (now, Wakayama Pref.), in 1854. Outline of the story is totally same as Rob Carr described above. In addition, he is not just a farmer, but a 7th meister of Yamasa soy sauce factory, a first chairman of council of Wakayama Pref., and a first minister of Post Office Dept. (It was a era of revolution...)
For foreign countries, Lafcadio Hearn (known as Yakumo Koizumi in Japan) introduced this story first, in his book 'Gleanings in Buddha-Fields (ISBN:1596050217 or other)'. One Japanese teacher rewrited this to a simple and dense text for children, and choosed as an article of textbook by the nation. This version is re-translated to English, and taken in textbook of Colorado state elementary school, titled 'The burning of the rice fields' (the page is saying so. I don't know it's true or not).
Actually, in Japan, everyone knows, I believe, that sea surface oftenly drawn off before a Tsunami. We live with earthquakes, typhoons, volcanos, and fires (because of densely build old wooden houses). We are so careful(even an exess sometimes) and preparing for such disasters, so we can imagine to some degree what is going on. It is terrible to have a great Tsunami without no warning and information. Systems and informations are required.
Re:Not unpredictable, but probably unavoidable. (Score:3, Informative)
Los Gigantos (Score:3, Interesting)
Mod parent down! (Score:2)
Pay some attention to the real world.
Re:Mod parent down! (Score:4, Insightful)
You, matey, are an arsehole.
Re:How long until we blame America (Score:2, Funny)
Re:How long until we blame America (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How long until we blame America (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah. Mother Nature.
Punishment for non believers and 9/11 I think?
Please. If you really believe that God's responsible, then you believe in a sick God: He punishes people (including innocent children) via tsunamis just because he doesn't have enough fans? I seriously doubt other Christians would share your view.
Re:How long until we blame America (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How long until we blame America (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh, STFU (Score:4, Informative)
The country giving the largest proportion of aid per unit income is Norway, which gives about 6 times as much as the US per unit income.
I found some stats here [globalissues.org] if you're interested
Re:Oh boy... (Score:3, Insightful)
However, consider that some of those you've spoken to might have been comparing the amount of grief shown for the 9/11 attack in contrast to the perceived apathy for other (worse or otherwise) catastrophes. It's not that you're not allowed to grieve for 9/11, but that (in their perception) you've ignored all others. There's some truth to that, if you measure concern by media
Re:GOD PUNISHING ISLAM? (Score:4, Insightful)