Sirius in Negotiations With Apple 388
An anonymous reader writes "Sirius Satellite Radio Chief Executive Mel Karmazin announced that his company is in talks with Apple about bringing satellite radio to the iPod. Karmazin met with Steve Jobs Monday and he says the technology is the easy part. The hard part is negotiating just how they will split the profit from equipment and monthly subscriptions." We've covered this before, but now it seems they are getting "more Sirius," or something.
maybe he should keep quiet (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:maybe he should keep quiet (Score:3, Interesting)
Both companies are seeing their subscription numbers soar. XM's lead seems to have little more to do with anything except a head start. Both are seeing growth at similar rapid paces.
Re:maybe he should keep quiet (Score:3, Informative)
~S
Sirius losing to XM? I think not (Score:5, Insightful)
Hooking up iPods with Sirius would be quite interesting . . . maybe an XM killer.
Re:Sirius losing to XM? Absofuckinglutley (Score:3)
What, huh ? This move will increase their subscriber base, going with Apple is plus-plus-good. And having Howard Stern will only make it that much more attractive..
Do you work for XM ?
Re:Sirius losing to XM? Absofuckinglutley (Score:3, Interesting)
~S
Re:Sirius losing to XM? Absofuckinglutley (Score:2)
Since he doesn't have to deal with the FCC on Sirius, he may have a whole new attitude. For fans of Howard Stern it might be worth listening to, especially when he's just starting out on Sirius.
Re:Sirius losing to XM? Absofuckinglutley (Score:3, Interesting)
SIRIUS has been winning a lot of battles on fronts other than Howard Stern.
Content is not King (Score:4, Informative)
Sirius is losing the car partnership race. Folks that buy new cars have something like a 30-50% conversion rate for whatever ships in the cars. That is becoming, increasingly, XM. Their new deal with Hyundai is going to probably bring in more subscribers than Stern ever would, but it didn't cost half a billion.
Sirius is also seen as losing the hardware race. They don't have the resources to make desirable hardware. XM isn't doing the best here, either, but they're doing better than Sirius.
Lastly, Sirius cannot afford to launch another sat, and they need to. They're going to burn a lot of money keeping a repeater network going. XM has the resources to continue lofting birds, and saving money from having less of a ground presence - and eventually, having the sat bandwidth to offer new services.
The fact is that Sirius is acting a lot like a dot.com company. They're betting that they get a lot more subscribers before they burn through the cash - and I think that's a bet that they're going to lose.
Sirius will be calling for a secondary stock offering soon. I'm sure that Stern is going to be just thrilled when his huge deal suddenly is worth a whole lot less. That will be the beginning-of-the-end event for Sirius.
jh
Re:Content is not King (Score:5, Informative)
While XM's sattelites are generally way, way, way out there on the horizon near 30 degrees, Sirius has a sattelite (three in opposing orbits) over 60-90 degrees overhead. This is why XM has to worry about a repeater network and that Sirus doesn't have to deploy nearly as many repeaters. (ie: cities with tall buildings, not just places with semi-tall buildings) Its not an indication that 'Oh sirius has less repeaters so its not as good.' Its: "Oh, they picked a far better technology for mobile radio reception from sattelites."
Re:Content is not King (Score:3, Insightful)
IMHO, Sirius and XM will end up merging at some point anyway. Either one will lose and the other will gobble up it's customer base and assets or they will do some sort of mutual beneficial merge.
Re:Content is not King (Score:3, Insightful)
A dotcom like amazon.com, you mean?
Sirius Losing Car Partnership race? (Score:3, Informative)
from the Sirius website:
Aston Martin
BMW
Chrysler
DaimlerChrysler
Dodge
Fl
Ford
Hertz
Infiniti
Jaguar
Jeep
Lincoln
MINI
Mazda
Mercedes-Benz
Mercu
Monaco Coach Corporation
Nissan
Volvo
from xm's web site:
General Motors Corporation
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Toyota
Audi
Nissan North America
yes, they both have toyota and nissan. Doesn't really look like Sirius is losing the car partnership race. And how is Sirius losing the hardware race? don't feel like researching that one right now but i didn't see your proof for that either.
Battery Usage? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Battery Usage? (Score:2)
Re:Battery Usage? (Score:2)
Sirius and Apple together - could be good... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Sirius and Apple together - could be good... (Score:2)
Yeah, me too
Re:Sirius and Apple together - could be good... (Score:2)
Let's Get Sirius Here... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Let's Get Sirius Here... (Score:3, Funny)
iPod format (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:iPod format (Score:2)
Re:iPod format (Score:2)
The nondirectional Sirius antenna in my car is a small box about 2" square that mounts on the roof. My directional home antenna is a slightly bigger box that mounts on a window sill and tilts up to face the satellite.
I don't think a satellite radio antenna could be wired into headphones (without making them too bulky to wear). The portable satellite radio receivers I've seen don't look all that portable, really. It'll be interesting to see how they fit an antenna into the iPod.
Re:iPod format (Score:2)
And yes the antennae can be part of the headphones.
Re:iPod format (Score:3, Informative)
Jeff
Re:iPod format (Score:2)
That small antenna is an outboard backup, to be used to boost the signal when the MyFi's internal antenna can't cut it.
I own a MyFi and I've found the reception with the internal antenna to be good enough that I don't bother carrying the outboard antenna with me. Your mileage, of course, may vary.
The XM antenna (Score:2)
Reception seems to be possible indoors, with the antenna placed near a window, to about the same extent that you can get a lock on a similarly-placed GPS receiver.
My friends that have the units say they sometimes but don't always lose the signals going under highway bridges.
Podcasting link here? (Score:5, Interesting)
This kind of a system may benefit both Sirius and Apple. Rather than trying to make some sort of Apple/Sirius bastard child, perform an Audible like system: subscribers to Sirius could get satellite shows and download them as podcasts as well automatically through iTunes, or do a "Sirius Lite" with delayed Podcast versions of shows available for a monthly fee (again, like Audible).
Apple sells more iPods (especially if they do it as an exclusive), Sirius would get more subscribers (heck, I've no interest in a satellite radio system, but I'd pay a small monthly service fee for good radio/music shows I could auto-sync to my iPod - key word "good"), and consumers - eh, I'll let individuals decide if its good for them or not.
Re:Podcasting link here? (Score:2)
Re:Podcasting link here? (Score:2, Insightful)
Wow, I have to say that's actually pretty good, and makes a hell of a lot more sense than trying to cram a satellite receiver inside of an iPod. I find myself in too many satellite unfriendly locations to even consider something like Sirius or XM, but I too would consider a subscription for quality time-shifted radio.
Re:Podcasting link here? (Score:3, Informative)
is already ON [sirius.com] Sirius everyday.
What is Sirus? (Score:2)
What is so great about it and is it available in Canada or outside of North America for that matter?
I would not want to pay extra for a feature on an iPod if it is useless when I travel to europe.
Re:What is Sirus? (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know that there's any technical reason why you couldn't receive satellite radio in Canada, but neither company will sell it to you. Likewise, if you're an American passing through Canada there's no reason why your satellite radio wouldn't work. I guess that reception in Europe and elsewhere would depend on how they have their satellites positioned and what kind of orbits they are in.
Re:What is Sirus? (Score:2)
So, yes, if CBC is pushing for it it will almost certainly make it across the border in the near future.
Re:What is Sirus? (Score:2)
Given this, Sirius could somewhat easily blanket most of Europe with satellite radio feeds. However, if they aren't selling devices in those markets yet... regardless of where their birds are, they can always choose to turn off the transmitters.
Re:What is Sirus? (Score:2)
Re:What is Sirus? (Score:2)
Re:What is Sirus? (Score:2)
Re:Canada (Score:2)
Sirius has an agreement with the CBC to Canadianize Sirius for that market.
Sirius is great becaue with 65 commercial free channels, there is always something to listen to for every taste. Since each genre has its own station, DJs can play songs that don't get played on regular radio. I listen to the 80s alternative station "First Wave" a lot. It has played a lot of songs I haven't heard since the eighties.
Sirius also has the NHL (if they ever get their act together), NFL and NBA.
If you like news its got the BBC, 2 NPR stations, PRI (which plays "As it Happens"), CNN, and the World Radio Network amoung others.
Re:What is Sirus? (Score:2)
If I have an onboard nic does that suddenly make high speed internet a feature for my computer? No, it makes it so I can subscribe to the service.
The feature with this new generation of iPods would be that it works with Sirius Satellite Radio, not that it has it.
Great idea, what about execution? (Score:2)
This is a good idea. Get the technology to a robust place, and then worry about making it portable; of course, it's already in cars, but cars a lot bigger than iPods.
Overall, the idea is great. I'd love to have satellite radio in my iPod, I'm just not keen on paying for it. Also, will it drain more battery power than playing a song off the HD, or less?
If it's seemlessly built into the iPod, and the interface can be accessed from the iPod's screen I don't see anything holding this back except the monthly fee.... which is necessary to provide many stations commercial-free. I just wish there was another way.
Screw that (Score:3, Insightful)
Would it really be that hard to add a radio? And I don't want satellite radio. Sorry, Steve.
Ah well. If an iPod had radio, I might tempted to get one, and I've sworn a holy oath never to give Apple any of my money because of their business practices. :D
Re:Screw that (Score:2)
You've already got your answer. It's not going to happen as long as Steve has the final say-so.
That being said, there are third party add-ons which allow you to do exactly what you want: listen to FM on an iPod. The BTI Tunestir seems to be getting a lot of attention of late, though I don't have a link handy.
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Re:Screw that (Score:2)
No there aren't.
Re:Screw that (Score:3, Informative)
You and three other people (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not about adding features. If it were all about feature count, Netscape would be the best browser ever.
The iPod serves a simple purpose. It does it well, it is not ugly while doing it, and it is easy to use. Please do not suggest that FM radio would not further complicate the device, because it certainly would.
Besides, why would you want to listen to the utter crap which is today's ClearChannel dominated FM radio landscape? Do you not have enough advertisements and reptition in your life?
Yes. Darn them for trying to make money. Darn them for an excellent service record marred mostly by the intense expectations of their users (call Dell and complain that "your fans are too loud" and expect to be taken seriously. I dare you)! Darn them for being so... so... successful! Here at Slashdot, we don't take kindly to success.But you know what? keep your iPod money. I'm pretty sure Apple can cope with the loss.
Re:You and three other people (Score:2)
NPR, Rush Limpbutt, etc etc. Plently of people would like to be able to tune into news and talk radio on an Ipod. The idea that he's unique in wanting this feature is laughable. I'd venture that 90% of Ipod users music is that same stuff playing on your local FM station. What you think that Ipod owners are somehow unique and don't listen to Top 40? Look at the top 10 list at the Itunes store week after week. So apparently your competely off in your theory about what Ipod users want to listen to.
If the Ipod had a FM tuner, Ipod users would be calling any device which lacked a tuner crap. But it doesn't have a tuner and never will so those who have invested hundreds of dollars into an Ipod will continue to defend it as being "perfect" and not lacking in any feature.
60GB Ipod Photo Owner
Re:You and three other people (Score:2)
Yea most of it is crap, but some of it isnt :) NPR ... I like the john and ken show (although thats AM here in southern california). Also, apparently you dont goto a gym? Most gyms have 4 or 5 televisions in a room and they broadcast their audio over FM. It really helps kill the time.
What I really want from the ipod is OGG support ... im sick of closed formats. Which is why im sticking with my iriver :)
Can't fault you there... (Score:2)
Amen on the ogg part. Maybe with QT7 we'll see Apple open up a little. I know the machine is capable of decoding it, and now QuickTime certainly could support the codec.
Actually, FM is more complicated. (Score:3, Insightful)
FM radio stations not, not, not any of these things. You could represent Sat. stations as playlists trivially, and they would conform to the user's expectations. You cannot do the same with FM if you travel more than a few miles in any given direction.
FM radio is an inherently crufty user experience. XM is not. Think about it.
It's because their expectations are set by iPod (Score:2)
What I am saying is that the iPod user experience and metaphor does not mesh well with FM. The iPod is not terribly good at making playlists (or setting presets) on the fly. It can do it, yes. But its user interface is optimized for browsing, not editing. Traditionally we do our playlist editing in a helper program like iTunes.
Sat. radio is a much nicer fit to the iPod user experience, which is therefore easier than FM to understand on the iPod.
Re:Screw that (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Screw that (Score:2)
He spoke to EVERYONE, not just Apple (Score:5, Informative)
said the company has "had discussions with everyone," including makers of cell phones, digital music players and other devices.
It wasn't just Apple, its just a generalized thing
Let Me Summarize the "Negotiations" (Score:5, Funny)
Steve Jobs: Nope.
Sirrus: I'll be your friend!
Steve Jobs: Nope.
Sirrus: If you don't put us in the iPod, I'll sign an exclusive deal with RealPlayer!
(pause)
Sirrus & Steve Jobs: AHAHAHAHH!
Sirrus: That's a good one. But seriously, how about putting us in the iPod?
Steve Jobs: Nope.
-Crow T. Trollbot
Re:Let Me Summarize the "Negotiations" (Score:2)
Ipod plus Sat radio (Score:2, Funny)
This advancement in batteries is the breakthrough the planet earth has been waiting for. I hope Steve gets a Nobel for it.
What's also amazing is how Apple has been able to keep it under wraps and out of the blogs for so long.
Re:Ipod plus Sat radio (Score:2)
Not a bad idea (Score:2)
Re:Not a bad idea (Score:2)
You can already do this with a plug'n'play Sirius tuner. Pop the tuner out of your car dock and into your home dock, then into your boom box dock for camping, and into the car dock on your boat for fishing.
Pressure (Score:2)
Podcasting. (Score:3, Insightful)
Not quite satallite radio, but a neat way of delievering quality content to iPods.
This way people could copy yesterday's episode of Howard Stern to their iPod, and listen to it inside an underground bunker with no outside communication.
Sound quality? (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of the time you ignore it...but going from a track ripped in Apple lossless format to satellite radio will be like jumping back 10 years in technology.
Re:Sound quality? (Score:2)
Are they? I'm pretty nerdy, and I haven't noticed any SQ problems with Sirius. Of course, since Sirius dynamically reallocates bitrate to the channels that need it most at any given moment (S-PLEX), the sound quality can vary from time to time. Sounds like you either have a problem with your audio setup, or you tuned in at just the wrong time.
Re:Sound quality? (Score:2, Insightful)
I love this Microsoft-centric way of thinking. With XP, you only have to reboot once every 7 days and reinstall once every 9 months! The sound quality should be CD quality (since that's what they advertise) ALL the time.
Regardless, my point is that it's absolutely obvious of the quality difference when played directly after actual CD quality sound.
Re:Sound quality? (Score:2)
Wow, that came out of nowhere. Does your knee always jerk this much?
The sound quality should be CD quality (since that's what they advertise) ALL the time.
No, that's not what they advertise. Close to CD quality, maybe (and it is much closer than FM), but I've never heard Sirius claim they actually provided CD quality sound. Do you have a link to an example of this claim?
Re:Sound quality? (Score:2)
Overall, XM is horrible IMO. Moronic DJs, smaller channel line-up, tiny tiny song descriptions that often had to be mangled to fit and to top it off, poor sound quality. Contributing factor why I had no problem letting go of the car 6 months later. I'm much happier with Sirius in another car.
Re:Sound quality? (Score:3, Informative)
And for political talk fans, Sirius carries a full Air America feed (as well as their own TalkLeft stream, and two corresponding conservative streams) instead of the mangled Clear Channel version that XM has, which replaces some of Air America's shows with others like Ed Schultz and (*gag*) Alan Colmes.
iPod vs all comers (Score:2)
Lacking the easy scrolling is not a tragedy, but not having access to my large collection of wma files is. Yea, I know.. slaughter me for using wma over mp3 or ogg, but all of my legally owned music is ripped into variable bit rate wma files which sound great and are smaller than Mp3s.
I can't really see the addition of Syrius to the iPod really giving me or anyone else a reason to switch if they can deal with my two points mentioned above. People with large HD mp3 players have lots of their own music. Maybe if you could press a button and download a song off the satellite (and then actually manage to get them off of your iPod)....
Re:iPod vs all comers (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:iPod vs all comers (Score:3, Insightful)
Price? (Score:2, Insightful)
Good for Apple, okay for Sirius (Score:2)
But Sirius, fundamentally as a subscription service, is most likely going to sell a similar number of subscriptions regardless of whether the thing works like an iPod as well.
In fact, there is one feature that would decide whether Sirius (or XM, for that matter) would benefit from packaging their service with the iPod: Can you use the iPod to record from satellite radio and play it back later?
More accurate title would be ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Terrific! (Score:2, Funny)
First rule about talking with Steve Jobs (Score:3, Funny)
static (Score:2)
Hear that, that static? That is the sound of Clear Channel execs loosing steam from their ears. One thing that the sat. radio folks don't have is market penetration with their devices. You can go out of your way to get one in your car; sometimes they come standard. But really, I don't know anyone with sat. radio.
On the other hand, I know about 20 people who have iPods. And it looks like that trend is going to continue. Although you'll probably have to upgrade your iPod to make this work--or maybe get a hardware dongle--I don't think that would be a serious barrier over time.
Clear Channel just got leapfrogged, mostly because they have a sanitized and unoriginal lineup, with ads. In 15 years the folks that only have access to FM radio may be the same folks who don't have cell phones. Too bad for CC. They bought a condo on a swamp, and mistook sanitizing for competitiveness.
Overstating what's happening... (Score:2)
Wishful thinking in my eyes and who knows, Apple has suprised us before with their outsourced engineering.
That said I have Sirius and a whole lot of Apple hardware. It would be neat this happened but as unlikely as it would be for the hardware to become a reality, it would be even hard for them to make it work on an iPod mini which I much prefer to the (in my opinion) bulky iPod.
Apple needs Serius, or XM more than they need (Score:2)
"If we don't do a deal, our current business plan is just fine," Karmazin said.
Consumer choice.
New ipod with satrad
OR
satrad with player and option to buy tunes through satrad?
Apples choice.
Next generation ipod with compelling feature. Repackage same old with enhancements to player like better fidelity, more formats,
Which will sell more ipods, rpods, or irpods?
Serius and XM choice.
Device and market from scratch or build on hottest thing since sliced bread?
Cost of entry and ROI with Apple will not preclude roll-your-own for satrad guys, unless Jobs is smart enough and they are dumb enough to sign a no-compete, but this leaves the other player on the satrad side with options so it will never happen. It(Serius) isn't that crazy.
What would 'already own an ipod' folks buy?
Add on?
New Ipod with radio?
Something with ipod functionality and style and satrad function from satrad company?
What about you 'don't have an ipod' folks?
Ipod and add on?
What if the satrad guys OR Apple built price into subscription fee, like a cell phone with 2 year contract?
Periodic billing costs a lot, the satrad guys have it in place. Would tying satrad capable ipod into a pay by the month deal boost the heck out of satrad ipod sales?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hear these guys negotiating. So much so that I'd be willing to pay the price of a shuffle to hear it in real time! How about it Steve and Kaz? Revenue for yakking!
Article correction (Score:2)
"[...]his company is in talks with Apple [...]" should read: "had discussions with everyone"
And "Karmazin met with Steve Jobs Monday" should be: Monday night at "D: All things digital", he pestered some industry figures he accidently stumbled upon. Steve Jobs most likely thought: "Who is this guy and should I call security to get rid of him?"
Why are people excited? (Score:2)
They claimed that bringing the radio to the ipod would add complexity that users "don't want".
Well, I'd prefer to listen to FREE radio broadcasts than pony up yet cash to yet another service provider.
Sirius needs Apple (Score:2)
Sirius can turn this into a money-making equation if the cost of receiving podcasted content wins out over the delay of waiting for pirated Sirius material on the internet.
I think Sirius can do this. It shouldn't cost too much more than having an iPod and a Sirius subscription at the same time. But, Apple has the upper hand in these negotiations.
Sirius as HDTV provider? (Score:2)
Re:"the difficult part" (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"the difficult part" (Score:3, Funny)
I was going to post an insightful reply dispelling your unfounded fears.
I was going to post a funny reply making fun of your unfounded fears.
But, honestly, I'm so taken aback I don't even know where to begin.
Re:"the difficult part" (Score:2)
I just tried to post and failed utterly.
Re:"the difficult part" (Score:3)
I guess we could begin by pointing out that there are two kinds of "satellite antennas" -- those that receive signals from satellites, and those that transmit signals to them -- and asking him to guess which would most likely be found in this device, and then to speculate as to how much radiation each kind emits.
Nice! (Score:2)
Great troll, man. That was a troll, right? Because you aren't honestly dumb enough to think a satellite receiver can give you cancer, are you?
Re:"the difficult part" (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't worry. Your tinfoil sombrero will protect you.
Re:Has to be said... (Score:2)
Re:Has to be said... (Score:2)
What names are you searching for? Something the rest of us might've heard of, I hope.
POSIX 0? (Score:2)
You mean "that's the best wordplay on
If you did mean that, then I doubt that I will read anything remotely as clever until at least 2038-01-19T03:14:07Z.
Re:more Sirius (Score:2)
Re:How about an FM receiver? (Score:2)
Re:How about an FM receiver? (Score:3, Insightful)
You would? Have you listened to FM radio lately? Morning radio on FM is a cesspool of rancid ass-shit, later in the afternoon it's commercial after commercial with an occasional song thrown in to tease the listener.. when evening comes, it's the same crap britney speers/back street boys songs played over and over.
With the possible exception of NPR.
Re:How about an FM receiver? (Score:2)
With the possible exception of NPR.
You are absolutely ri..........
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Re:How would this affect the Radio streams in iTun (Score:2)
Uh, because Sirius is a proprietary satellite radio network. Not some IP-based satellite radio service. Your understanding of the technology needs some work.
Re:XM is done (Score:2, Informative)
Sirius is a flash in the pan (Score:4, Interesting)
XM currently has 2 million more subs than Sirius. There is simply no way that Sirius is going to catch up, Stern or not.
Sirius paid a lot of money for potential Stern subcribers - at least a couple of hundred bucks each. It is extremely unlikely that Sirius will actually make money on this deal any time soon.
Sirius is betting the farm on some risky deals, while XM has had strong and steady growth - and will absolutely turn a profit years before Sirius does.