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Education Portables Wireless Networking Hardware

Is Wi-Fi Ruining College? 370

theodp writes "Over at Slate, Avi Zenilman has seen the real classroom of the future firsthand: Students use class time to read the Drudge Report, send e-mail, play Legend of Zelda, or update profiles on Facebook.com. But not to worry - replace laptops with crumpled notes, and the classroom of the future looks a lot like the classroom of the past." From the article: "... when Cornell University researchers outfitted classrooms with wireless Internet and monitored students' browsing habits, they concluded, 'Longer browsing sessions during class tend to lead to lower grades, but there's a hint that a greater number of browsing sessions during class may actually lead to higher grades.' It seems a bit of a stretch to impute a causal relationship, but it's certainly possible that the kind of brain that can handle multiple channels of information is also the kind of brain that earns A's."
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Is Wi-Fi Ruining College?

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 19, 2005 @02:50PM (#14071410)
    so long browsing sessions drop grades (because the students are ignoring the professor)

    and short but frequent sessions increase grades (because students are looking up wtf the teacher is talking about)

    Seems pretty strightforward.

  • by MLopat ( 848735 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @02:50PM (#14071412) Homepage
    FTFA: "There are about 100 students in the Columbia University lecture I'm currently attending, and about 10 have laptops. (The lecture consists mostly of grad students in their late 20s, so the ratio is a bit low.) I can see four screens from here; only one person is actually taking notes. Another is looking at the registrar's Web site. The other two keep checking their e-mail."

    So the real question is, would these same students pre-occupy themselves with something else if they didn't have their laptops open to browse? Its reasonable to conclude that they have a limited attention span as it is, so whether they're sending email, talking on an IM client, or checking out the hot blond two rows down, they weren't going to being paying attention in their English 101 lecture anyways.
  • by kgruscho ( 801766 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @02:51PM (#14071416)
    Or just let the teacher have a switch on the WAP, with one WAP per classroom.

    Being a teacher that is what id like to do.
  • It's a tool (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Turn-X Alphonse ( 789240 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @02:52PM (#14071423) Journal
    The internet is a tool just like a notepad. I can sit and doodle all day in my notepad instead of taking notes if I wish to. Does that mean notepads are suddenly bad for studying?

    The problem is peope abuse the tool to do other things, so they lose focus which ends up making them worse off in the long run.

    Wifi is not the problem here, giving it to people who want to dick around is.
  • by jbrader ( 697703 ) <stillnotpynchon@gmail.com> on Saturday November 19, 2005 @02:52PM (#14071428)
    Why should you want to limit it? This is college we're talking about. These students are paying for the priviledge of wasting thier class time. Thier tuition bought the wireless they can play Zelda during Phys 121 if they want. So long as they keep the volume down so that the student who want to pay attention (and who will end up being thier bosses later on) don't get distracted.
  • by PrinceAshitaka ( 562972 ) * on Saturday November 19, 2005 @02:53PM (#14071431) Homepage
    Wi-Fi wont ruin colleges, just the students in them. If a student chooses to surf in class, that is the students problem, not the schools. It will still take the same intelligence and smarts to get decent grades. Some students will be able to surf in class. Many others wont. I was able to skip hundreds of hours of lecture time and still got out with a degree.
  • by zappepcs ( 820751 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @02:57PM (#14071450) Journal
    The casual relationship between multitasking and higher grades is no big news. People with ADD get bad grades... duh. Seriously, this is only one incidental aspect of a well known relationship. The real news will be when browsing/surfing is supporting or augmenting students in ways that were not predictable.

    The really good part of information tools is that they allow us to multitask on our own time, not the time schedule of others. The article hardly lends any time to whether or not the students who are surfing in class know the material well already or not. The wide variety of subject matter knowledge held by the students determines their own personal need to listen intently or not. If they don't require it, multitasking is a good use of time, and students who can multitask well will make good grades whether there is Internet access or not, likewise, students who cannot multitask will not make as good of grades.

    Multitasking in a school environment means that you don't have to shut off the parts of your thinking that are not fully focused on the matter at hand.... you may be in a poli-sci class, but your thinking is on a project that you are working on for another.

    There are three kinds of lies... lies, damned lies, and statistics!
  • by Janitha ( 817744 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @02:59PM (#14071458) Homepage
    By personal experience as a College Student who use wifi in almost every class, I don't think how I can go without it. I think it has greatly improved my learning experience since its like a library in front of you. For example, say your in a ethics class and they bring up the topic of some act or case, just google or use wikipedia to look it up. Your in physics and you need a quick reference or more graphics and illustrations on a certain theory, simple: just search it. If it wern't for the laptop/internet, I (or anyone) would ever bother to look that information up later.

    And what about the times when the prof is going on and on about things that you have clear understanding, honestly everyone was just falls asleep or skips the class, or you can use that time to look up some information on the subject/topic the prof just talked about or is about to talk which is much more efficient use of the time while still keeping a ear open to see if anything interesting is said be the prof. This helped me understand the lectures and material much better (than those days when I don't take my laptop).

    If you are playing games or surfing stupid websites that the students choice and you shouldn't blame wifi or laptops for that, the student is responsible. But if you just take wifi out of the class room, then all the students who use internet connection in class rooms are the ones who will suffer.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:01PM (#14071465)
    and thereby (in my opinion) completely defeating the supposed purpose of HAVING wifi in the first place. why would they have wifi access in classrooms if you can't use it while you're supposed to be in class?
  • Job (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mikejz84 ( 771717 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:02PM (#14071480)
    If professors can get away with just giving the powerpoint enclosed with the textbook, we should be able to get away with going online.
  • by mpoulton ( 689851 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:03PM (#14071487)
    The Cornell researchers studied browsing habits in classes by giving students school-owned laptops that were known to track their browsing habits. Would people browse normally under those conditions? Also, the students being studied were probably not technophiles -- otherwise they would have their own laptopts, and not likely participate in the study. Technophiles in general have very different computer usage profiles than the general population. In my experience, it seems we are much more better at multitasking, and are better able to use computers while simultaneously interacting with the rest of the world. It looks like this study did not actually investigate how *current* laptop use by students who own them affects performance. Instead, they investigated how the *addition* of a school-owned, monitored laptop to a non-techy student's repertoire changes their performance.
  • by Starji ( 578920 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:04PM (#14071492)
    I can relate somewhat to what the writer of the article is trying to say. The computer in the classroom (especially with internet access) is just a distraction. In my experience with my own laptop, it's often true. If I have the laptop out then I'm usually not paying all that much attention to the professor. When he's talking about ip packet fragmenting, I'm playing Earthbound, or just browsing the web. Here's the trick though, I'm not doing this in classes where I actually want to pay attention. My networks class for example, is an example of a class where I don't want to pay attention. The professor will go on and on about something not related to the course materials for the day, and I've had a fair amount of networking experience in high-school that whatever concepts he throws out I understand immediately, so the rest of the lecture ends up being pointless. In contrast, in my Senior project class we go over things that are new to me and are useful to me in a format I don't fall asleep right away. And it's not like the computer and internet in the classroom are just a distraction. I have used it to look up facts and extra information about the lecture before.

    So is wifi ruining college? No more than any other service provided on campus. I can still shut down the laptop and not pay attention to the professor the old fashioned way, like reading a book, or sleeping. A boring professor is a boring professor whether there's wifi or not. It's my choice to use it knowing the consequences of my actions may lead to lower grades, and as long as I'm not disturbing or otherwise interfering with my classmates who actually want to pay attention, I don't see the problem.
  • by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:09PM (#14071509)
    Tech has a good solution to this problem too: they let you do whatever you want, but if you don't understand the material they fail you and kick you out. It's effective at keeping us focused (enough) in class, and also isn't draconian.
  • by CommiePuddin ( 891854 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:10PM (#14071516) Homepage
    Jesus. Instead of doing something like, I don't know, asking them to stop, or changing seats, you instead vandalize their property.

    Do you expect people to slash your tires every time you park slightly crooked in a parking lot?

    Congratulations, you're the lowest form of asshole. How the hell were they infringing on your learning experience anyway? If you can't help but watch the porn on their laptop, that's your problem. Adopt qualities that are less akin to a ferrett.
  • and thereby (in my opinion) completely defeating the supposed purpose of HAVING wifi in the first place. why would they have wifi access in classrooms if you can't use it while you're supposed to be in class?

    A very good point. Two possible responses
    (1) the admins want the internet wirelessly available in common / collaborative work spaces in the class buildings, which their solution still allows (as long as you're not "collaborating" during class time)
    (2) genuine lack of foresight (as you suggest)

    Probably a bit of both...
  • by MoneyT ( 548795 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:18PM (#14071547) Journal
    Bingo.

    This is the real problem. Go to a class where the professor is engaging and entertaining, where the material taught is relevant and the students are engaged. You'll notice a lot less people slacking off.
  • by NMerriam ( 15122 ) <NMerriam@artboy.org> on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:18PM (#14071550) Homepage
    Great, yet more evidence that business schools don't know anything about motivating employees or customers. Thank God someone is there to teach the MBAs of the future that the internet is useless except for marketing and DRM verification!
  • by sdaug ( 681230 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:22PM (#14071577)
    No, often times taking notes actually gets in the way. For some people it is much more important to spend the time they would be writing notes by actually paying attention more -- especially when the professor just uses what is in the book. Thus, often times you can just use the book as your notes and worry about comprehension while in class, not in the time afterwards. That is truly efficient use of time.
  • by Yokaze ( 70883 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:23PM (#14071583)
    Futhermore, universities are usually getting paid for having the reputation of producing good graduates and several get more money from alumni then from current students. If the students are goofing around too much, both revenue streams may soon become dry.
    So, it is in their own interest to minimise the negative impact of WLAN in classrooms.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:28PM (#14071618)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Placing blame (Score:2, Insightful)

    by billyradcliffe ( 698854 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:31PM (#14071632) Homepage
    Don't blame the technology, blame the person (ab)using the technology. They know what they're supposed to be doing in class. They know that they're paying to be there. They're choosing to use the technology versus paying attention. A little self-discipline goes a long way.
  • by EvanED ( 569694 ) <{evaned} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:37PM (#14071655)
    The word "between" implies that he can't be both at the same time.
  • Multi-tasking (Score:3, Insightful)

    by shmlco ( 594907 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:37PM (#14071657) Homepage
    "...but it's certainly possible that the kind of brain that can handle multiple channels of information is also the kind of brain that earns A's."

    It's also certainly possible that the kind of brain that THINKS it can handle multiple channels of information is also the kind of brain that can't.

    Since none of them have your full attention, doing four things all at once makes the odds pretty good that all you're doing is screwing up four things at once.

    Of course, I expect plenty of people here are going to tell me they're experts in this regard... much like the "90% of all drivers think they're above average" statistic.

  • by Crystalmonkey ( 743087 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:43PM (#14071698)
    A friend of mine, who is the principal of a school, allows seniors to go off campus when they are not in class. He knows that some students will abuse it, but he feel's thats not an excuse for not allowing the others. He simply has to take care of the people who abuse it. The same goes with any freedom. There are plenty of people who abuse things like WiFi in the classroom, but that doesn't mean you should cut it off for everyone. If it's a problem, you should deal with it, not just treat the symptom.
  • Thats bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)

    by elucido ( 870205 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:44PM (#14071704)
    Just because some people use the internet to look at stupid stuff, shouldnt mean you should eliminate the nternet for people who actually use it to research stuff for the class or for other classes.

    I think removing wifi is as stupid as removing the library to prevent people from stealing books. If a student is too stupid to use their tools to succeed then they shouldnt be in college to anyway. Wifi is just a tool, just like a notebook, a library, or a teacher giving a lecture, all tools to help you get a degree.

    (I know teachers are persons but their role is to help you get your degree)

    Removing a tool makes it harder to get a degree. Just like removing the internet makes us dumber, removing books makes is less educated, removing wifi also is stupid. If people surf less they'll just find something else to do other than study.
  • Re:It's a tool (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nSpace ( 181520 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @03:53PM (#14071757) Homepage
    There's only so much enjoyment you can get out of doodling. The Internet presents unlimited possibilities for distraction. You can't really compare a notepad and the Internet.

    Really, what possible use could the Internet have when you are supposed to be paying attention to the Prof? You don't need to be checking email, surfing websites, or posting to your blog. You need to be paying attention and taking notes.

    I say keep the laptops, take away the Net.
  • Law School (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Venner ( 59051 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @04:14PM (#14071856)
    I started law school this fall; it differs from undergrad in that nearly everyone has a laptop and uses it to take notes. In my entering class, I think perhaps 6 or 7 students don't have a laptop. As an engineer and a techie in general, I find it terrific to have. I type much, much faster than I can write with a pen, and have FindLaw/Westlaw/Lexis-Nexis, state codes & regulations, the U.C.C., etc, all right at my fingertips for reference during class.

    What amazes me are the people who chat on aim the whole class, or browse facebook, or play MMORPGs (seriously). Even if you're a freakin' genius and don't need to listen to the professor and class discussion, it's distracting and just plain rude. The corolary, of course, is that it's natural selection in action :-) You reap what you sow.

    [As an aside, I actually find law school fun and, while not easy, certainly not hard. It is a feeling shared by the other handful of hard-science and engineering grads. We're basically used to the workload, if not the type of work . (No worries Slashdot-crowd, I'm not in it for the money and I'd sooner commit seppuku than work for the likes of the **AA.) ]
  • So What? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by suwain_2 ( 260792 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @04:15PM (#14071859) Journal
    Our school issues students laptops, and has WiFi throughout *most* of the campus. Newer rooms have Ethernet ports for wired use as well.

    I don't think we need to treat the Internet differently from bringing, say, a book or magazine to class. If I bring my textbook to class, and use it to follow along with the professor, it's helpful. If I bring the textbook for another class and study in downtime during class, it's only me that's losing out. If I bring Playboy to class, it'd be a distraction to others, and then we have a problem.

    We give professors a means of turning network access off, but few professors do. I applaud this: I've used the Internet for a lot of constructive stuff during class. Looking up related material, getting the document we were supposed to print out and bring to class, etc.

    Yes, sometimes I'll notice classmates chatting on AIM or doing other stuff of no adademic value, but they're only hurting themselves. I really don't think schools have any need to try to regulate usage in classrooms.
  • Re:Run a chat room (Score:2, Insightful)

    by pexatus ( 216363 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @04:23PM (#14071894)

    The teacher says something obscure, and the students want to know what it is, they can chat among their peers instead of disturbing the lecture. If no one knows in the class, they can interrupt the teacher.

    Any good teacher welcomes an interruption to clarify something that the students don't understand. That's the whole point of paying tuition instead of just buying books and learning at home. Human interaction can fill in the knowledge gaps more efficiently than staring at a book. The only problem is convincing the students that their teacher really is a human and can answer questions just like a classmate (and hopefully, better than the classmate).

    All talking would be logged so the teacher can see who's abusing the system after class.

    Likewise, any good college-level teacher wants to spend no time doing babysitting of this sort, and without some kind of on-topic enforcement, it is almost guaranteed to degenerate into useless noise.
  • by Peter La Casse ( 3992 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @04:31PM (#14071934)
    Futhermore, universities are usually getting paid for having the reputation of producing good graduates and several get more money from alumni then from current students. If the students are goofing around too much, both revenue streams may soon become dry.

    So, it is in their own interest to minimise the negative impact of WLAN in classrooms.

    In that scenario, it is not WLAN that causes the problem, it is the students who goof off too much. An effective way to produce good graduates is to help the slackers flunk out early. Forcing students to pay attention is therefore counterproductive. The higher your dropout rate, the more students you can admit, and the greater your odds of admitting someone who will someday make you proud.

  • by andreyw ( 798182 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @05:06PM (#14072106) Homepage
    I wouldn't say WiFi has been ruining my "college experience". In fact, I actually have gone to classes where I would otherwise not have, simply by having the knowledge that if today's lecture was going to be a bore (and something I already know), I could browse away.
  • by munpfazy ( 694689 ) * on Saturday November 19, 2005 @05:15PM (#14072151)
    At least in the physical sciences, 2/3 of the audience have their laptops open and are busy at work finishing up their own presentations, sending email, and doing any number of other random things. I've never seen a classroom with anywhere *near* the density of laptops being used for tasks other than note taking that happens in a conference full of professors, post-docs, and senior grad students.

    It seems to me the reason is simple: a lot of what speakers say isn't useful, even in the case of good speakers and voluntary audience. Even when it *is* useful, the rate at which information is presented is usually an order of magnitude slower than the rate at which the audience can absorb it, with huge gaps of dead time between important statements. So, at lectures people spend an hour sitting in their seats in order to catch a minute or two of really useful information.

    As someone who hasn't taken a course without lots of equations and diagrams in a long time, I've never had an excuse to bring a laptop to class. Instead, I have to spend all that dead time thinking about other things on my own without the benefit of a technological distraction.

    The problem with laptops in the classroom is that it hurts the feelings of lecturers, who are forced to confront the fact that most of their audience isn't paying attention to most of what they say most of the time.
  • Re:Run a chat room (Score:3, Insightful)

    by EvanED ( 569694 ) <{evaned} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday November 19, 2005 @05:56PM (#14072316)
    The only problem is convincing the students that their teacher really is a human and can answer questions just like a classmate (and hopefully, better than the classmate).

    And I think that the chatroom could help with this. Students could see that others have the same questions as them, thus sorta embolden them to ask it in class. I think a lot of the time people don't ask questions because they think they might be alone in not knowing it and don't want their classmates to think they don't know.

    Though who knows if that's the real reason, or if a chatroom would help relieve anxiety. (I think the anonymous nature would help.)

    So I think a chatroom could help and wouldn't hurt.

    (Also, you have to take into account that not all teachers are good. In fact, there are plenty of sucky ones. I have one now that really doesn't answer questions well.

    Likewise, any good college-level teacher wants to spend no time doing babysitting of this sort

    Get the TA to do it. :-p

    I really wouldn't mind a quick perusal. And it could also help to identify sticky areas.
  • accountability (Score:2, Insightful)

    by eugeneiiim ( 852592 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @06:33PM (#14072445)
    I'm a CS student at CMU. In my experience, most of the students who use their laptops during lectures (or alternatively don't attend class) are the brilliant ones who understand the material straight from the book and do well on tests anyway. Those who can't afford to not pay attention in class by surfing the internet or playing games simply don't. For example, a few weeks ago a friend of mine who programs and reads slashdot during matrix algebra lectures and never takes notes got 100 on an exam while I, after taking notes and studying every night for about a week, got a 97. In my calc class, another person I know who writes blog entries in every single lecture scored 99 on the latest exam.

    As long as students understand the material (and show it by doing well on tests and assignments), I don't see any problem with having internet access in classrooms. Provided that students are held accountable for their learning through exam grades (it's easier to cheat on assignments, so they don't always demonstrate mastery), there's really not much that can "ruin college" as far as learning goes.

    The most obnoxious/distracting thing I've seen anyone do on a laptop in class is play stepmania and make lots of noise with their keyboards. But even then, anyone can easily ask them to stop or move to another seat.
  • by jumpfroggy ( 233605 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @07:06PM (#14072575) Homepage
    "An effective way to produce good graduates is to help the slackers flunk out early."

    So true, yet from what I've seen that's very hard to do. Most students will do just enough to scrape by, so whereever the line is drawn you'll see them floating just above it. I see that universities have 2 approaches; either draw the bar very high and focus on a small amount of high quality/motivated students, or be less-exclusive and baby the kids some. Basically, from a college standpoint it seems like they've added something (internet), measured it, and found negative effects. Say, more internet = lower grades (completely untrue, no in the article, but useful for this argument). Are they going to say "we should weed out the bad ones by slowly and subtly lowering their grades and concentration." Ahh, very tricky of them. The college is already made that kind of decision. Either they're a high level school and are weeding kids out in real ways (hard classes) vs. subliminal ways (wifi, internet, free beer just outside the classrooms, free GTA3 for each student). Or they're a lower level school and they want to help kids help themselves.

    So take away that wifi, eliminate those notebooks in the classroom, no talking in class! Help me, help you. Help me, help you... etc etc etc.
  • by khallow ( 566160 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @07:21PM (#14072641)
    The casual relationship between multitasking and higher grades is no big news. People with ADD get bad grades...

    Among several incorrect assumptions, you suppose that people with ADD can't multitask. I don't pretend to know whether this is a problem in general, but I know of one person who is diagnosed with ADD and is an amazing multitasker. He, however, cannot focus very well on one task for long periods of time though he has figured a way around that problem.

  • by siim04 ( 901085 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @07:47PM (#14072740)

    I use laptop in my classes. And yes, it can be a distraction. I find myself checking my mail, reading comics, cnn, updating information on a portal I (with my friends) own. But most distractions do not come from the Internet, they come from what you already have on laptop. You read articles you have downloaded last night, you write documents for your other classes, you prepare your projects, you write your own materials (ie. personal web page or a blog entry to be uploaded later when finished, projects, programs, finish job tasks), try out new soutions (software), audit and configure your PC and do a lot more. So blocking Internet acces is not a good solution!

    And blocking Internet access is bad for a number of other reasons as well. The first thing I do when I ge to class, I try to download the latest materials about the subject (and check the classes web page for updates). I also use the Internet to find materials relating to the subject (that can be very handy if you want to "take on" the tutor/presenter/lecturer ;)). Also finding alternate viewpoints to the materials can be helpful when trying to understand the lecturer or trying to confront him/her. Finding translations (from estonian to english or french or latin in my case) of terms is a challenge by itself. The downside is you understanding the amount of false information on wikipedia :p.

    For people having trouble paying attention to class I have a suggestion. Try to make notes. Not handwritten (you won't be able to read those anyways - that is the reason why I started carrying my laptop to classes at first place), but make notes using Lotus Notes, Microsoft Word (or Excel), KWord, AbiWord or OpenOffice.org Write. If you are some kind of a Linux/Unix geek, you might even take notes in *TeX (which I wouldn't suggest to anyone else). It is especially useful if the class does not yet have an online conspect as then you will be the first to write one and it can be an opportunity to get credit or extra income.

    I have seen most laptops in physics and economy classes, a bit less in computer science followed by law and then other social and real sciences and finally others. But I see the use of laptops increasing every week. I consider the use of laptops and Internet in classes more of a necessity than of distraction. It gives you much more opportunities than takes away. Ideally colleges and universities should be able to supply laptops to students in need as I can't see uncomputerised learning possible in ten years. E-learning, i-learning and learning from remote and independent is becoming more and more common. Classrooms are becoming more and more like (student) corporation rooms - places where people with similar interests can gather. It is even possible to graduate an university eithout actually ever visiting the university building (of the university you are to graduate) today. Why should we spend time for commuting between universty and home or university and work or university and cafe or ...? And why should we reserve certain times a week just to go and listen to one person talking if you could listen to the recording of his talk any time anywhere? We shouldn't!

  • Re:Job (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Joe Tie. ( 567096 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @08:12PM (#14072830)
    Amen. I can read faster than a presenter can talk. Any lecture using powerpoint is a waste of both our time. Just give me the damn slides.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday November 19, 2005 @08:16PM (#14072852)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 19, 2005 @08:28PM (#14072904)
    Well this is college. If you don't to learn, why come?

    Because if you have a crappy school/prof, there is information to be learned at the lectures, but over a 1-hour lecture, there is a total of about 10 minutes' worth of actual information.

    In any school where Wi-Fi in class is actually a problem, I can't help but suspect that the real source of the problem is bad profs.

  • by DavidTC ( 10147 ) <slas45dxsvadiv.v ... m ['box' in gap]> on Saturday November 19, 2005 @09:18PM (#14073049) Homepage
    Problem: Students are skipping classes because classes are boring and pointless and they can pass just by reading the book.
    Solution: Requires students to attend classes

    Problem: Students are ignoring the teacher in the classes they are now required to attend.
    Solution: ...

    Well, I dunno. Maybe they should fix the first fucking problem and stop making people show up to classes if they don't want to be there. They are, indeed, distracting other students, but an equally logical argument could be that the teacher is distracting them and wasting their time.

    If people would rather play computer games than listen in class, they should be allowed to...they're the ones paying for the class. We can argue if it's rude to do that inside of the classroom when they actually have a choice about their location.

    OTOH, once they do have a choice, the teacher should ask them to be quiet or leave if they're distracting anyone, no matter what the reason. And not ask them to leave if they aren't, even if they clearly aren't paying attention. Leaving is for when their behavior is interfering with learning.

    And it'd be nice if they'd designate a 'computer free' area of the class room. It could be as simple as the first two rows or whatever.

    I say this as someone who never used a laptop in class outside of a computer lab, because it would distract me.

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