No OLPCs for Cuba, Ever

An anonymous reader writes "In a move going largely unnoticed by developers, the OLPC project now requires all submissions to be hosted in the RedHat Fedora project. While this may not seem like a big deal, the implications are interesting. First, contributors have to sign the Fedora Project Individual Contributor License Agreement. By being forced to submit contributions to the Fedora repository they automatically fall under the provisions of US export law. So, no OLPC for Cuba, Syria and the like. Ever."

Re:for always and eternity

[eln]

They probably won't change during the useful life of the OLPC. The US still is under the impression that sanctions and trade embargoes will actually cause regime change in these countries. Even though they haven't worked at all (and in fact have only served to further entrench the regimes in question) over the more than 40 years they've been in place, we're still convinced that if we keep them around just a little bit longer, democracy will flourish.

Like John Stewart said, we've given up trying to kill Castro with food poison, now we're trying to kill him with "old age poison." If we wait long enough, the regimes will eventually fall, and we can then claim it was all because of the embargo.

That's a little bit pessamistic

[also-rr]

One day the US will normalise relations with Cuba. The process might not happen until after the current generation of ex-Cubans in Forida is dead, but that's hardly _never_.

In the mean time they could just funnel shipments through a neutral third party. Creative accountants can manage to hide billions from the IRS, why shouldn't they be able to do something socially useful like vanish a couple of shipping containers of laptops.

Re:Good.

[butlerdi]

Well, initially it was the upper and middle classes that stood to loose their wealth due to redistribution and probably some due to their assistance to the people who were at the receiving end of the revolution. Now, after 30+ years of sanctions there are people who wish for more money and the things that accompany it, the same as immigrants from other countries.

I have spent some time in Cuba and have had many interesting conversations regarding the revolution. The funny thing is that many seem to think the embargo is funny. A cigar that sells for 5 Euros in Europe sells for 5 times than on the US market. It is always fun to watch US tourist queue up to purchase them wherever they are available.

Not everyone in the world is dying to leave their country and move to the US, no matter what the boys at Fox say. Rupert is not even there most of the time.

Trivial to work around

[njchick]

One person signs the agreement and submits the project to Fedora. Anther person submits the project from Fedora to OLPC. There is no requirement that it's the same person.

Re:for always and eternity

[rifter]

because US laws and export restrictions never change. ever.

When it comes to Cuba, that's pretty much a given. Cuba has vowed to keep their current system in perpetuity and the US has vowed never to lift the embargoes as long as that is the case. That impasse is enforced by the Cuban expatriates and disgruntled corporations on the US side and the Castros and people with deep distrust of the US on the Cuban side. Not only is neither side budging, they aren't even discussing, or daring to suggest that they might consider, the possibility of change.

Re:for always and eternity

[nomadic]

It means there's a nice warm international vacation destination with no Americans.

We're not so bad... [reuters.com]

Re:Good.

[Anonymous Coward]

In the states, there is impeachment

Not one single president has ever been impeached. Nixon broke far fewer laws than Bush, but our politicians only grumble about impeaching Bush. It was reported that Bush had broken over 700 laws a year ago, yet no one has began impeachment proceedings and his term is nearly finished.

So we have impeachment on paper, just like we have freedom from illegal searches and seizures on paper. The reality is a bit different, it seems.

The truth, as has been made abundantly clear in this thread, is that how things are in Cuba runs counter to US ideals, not the reality of how things are in the US.

Re:for always and eternity

[mi]

No, they just need to return the confiscated real estate to their rightful owners and/or their kin.

As for China being a worse offender — yes, indeed. Although I doubt, China's "terrible attrocities" match Castro/Guevarra's per-capita, it was a black day, when Clinton gave China a preferred trade status — temporary at first, then permanent in 2000...

US media was applauding him, and the illiberal heavy-weights like New York Times even criticized the few lawmakers, who tried to prevent the bill on those pesky "human rights issues" [people.com.cn].

Anyway, whatever the situation with China is/was, Cuba is a horrible regime, and should be kept under the pile of bricks until it either changes or collapses.

Broader issue that Helms-Burton

[Lulu of the Lotus-Ea]

The point of why this is a bad move for OLPC isn't just about what's bad with the Cuba export ban specifically. That ban *is* indeed stupid, but this also subverts the international intention of the OLPC project to the narrow whims the US administration.

Perhaps some other country or countries will be declared official enemies next year. Especially if, say, MS and Intel can persuade a US administration that a mandate for Free Software in, say, Peru or Bolivia, is "contrary to US interests". Or even if such a ban is declared for completely unrelated reasons, the OLPC should not allow itself to be derailed by partisan or sensationalist whims of a USA administration.

Re:for always and eternity

[wayward_bruce]

[...] The US still is under the impression that sanctions and trade embargoes will actually cause regime change in these countries. Even though they haven't worked at all (and in fact have only served to further entrench the regimes in question) over the more than 40 years they've been in place, we're still convinced that if we keep them around just a little bit longer, democracy will flourish.

I second that. Having lived in Serbia until two years ago, I have witnessed first-hand the effects of trade embargoes on the attempts of the international community to displace Slobodan Milosevic. Those effects were largely the exact opposite; they:

• added fuel to the isolationist rhetoric;
• further damaged the already dwindling industry and economy;
• further reduced the standard of common people, which in turn led the organized crime to blossom;
• made everybody think about getting "food on their families" instead of reinstating democracy.

What did help was sending smaller amounts of money to the opposition and student organizations, and of course the whole cultural influence from abroad. By the same token, even if many of the values that usually come for free with the modern understanding of "democracy" and "capitalism" are nothing but mere eye-candy and low-fi money-traps, they might yet prove to be the best way to impose one country's standards and views upon another. OLPC is no exception to this: give it to the kids and see what happens when they grow up.

Re:for always and eternity

[Kirgin]

So by your logic George Bush is the richest man in the world...or I should say Dick Cheney is.

Castro built the system, he dosen't walk around and point to 18 year old girls and say "come with me" and they have to. No, it dosen't work that way. Castro believes in Communism because his early adult life showed him that capitalism (owning of property, having people indebted..etc) lead to nothing but misery for Cuba. Cubans were second class citizens in their own country under American rule (everything owned by US companies). Hell, Cuban military had orders to shoot at any United Fruit ships dared to even come close to Cuba. If you don't know who United Fruit was then google it.

The system dictates how Cubans behave, not Castro. when Castro dies, nothing will change unless the system(the people) decide. But a lot of Cubans like feeling safe, like have 100% employment, like having free education/healthcare. The big complaint I ever hear from Cubans is about censoring/controlling of media/information and travel.

Without the US embargo Cuba would probably move towards socialism. The people that are against the lifting of the embargo are the exiled(rich or formely) Cuban families and US trade companies that want to sweep in when Castro dies and "Claim" their family plantations and rule the lowerclasses like their parents/grandparents did. US will back their claims, they'll say Cuba "owes" 50 years of lost revenue and then legally fengshwei a debt to the world bank for said lost revenue...then begin to claim other aspects of Cuba as "debt reclamation". Or some other dumbfuck capitalist scheme like that.

That is why Castro is so strict when it comes to ANYTHING that in his mind may lead to a returning to the way they were; 90% illiteracy and a population enslaved(indebted) to foreign interests. Is it justified?

So ya, to sum: up Castro isn't an asshole dictator like any number of banana republics. He contributes more doctors/medicine to impoverished spanish colonies than anyone in the world. And he also happend to be a good friend of my hero Pierre Trudeau.

Oh, and the banks are really for us tourists/foreign nations. Communists don't need banks.

Re:for always and eternity

[omfgnosis]

@Nullav,

US citizens are responsible for the actions of their government. One could argue that the so-called democratic nature of the US government only increases that responsibility. This is the same for citizens of any country, though. And the US actually set this precedent after WWII. Just as the German citizens were responsible to stop the crimes of the nazi regime, we're responsible to stop the crimes of our own country.

Re:the embargo is a two-edged sword

[daem0n1x]

They are already a world power in advanced medicine. I personally know some people that went to Cuba for treatments that don't exist anywhere else. I read they are becoming great at biotech and registering patents like crazy.

Sure, it's a dictatorship but the social indicators for Cuba are among the best in the World. Even in the human rights issue, Cuba ranks better than many american countries, including... cough, cough, the USA. If it wasn't for this dumb embargo, Cuba would have gone democratic many years ago.

EU countries have businesses with Cuba but the private companies are weary of doing any business because they don't want to piss off the Americans. And our politicians are a bunch of wusses that won't do anything about it. That's how you starve an intelligent, creative, colourful, proud nation.

This embargo is a crime against the Cuban people, it's stupid and has yet to produce any positive result. Cuba is an incredible business oportunity for the capitalist World. Please tell your politicians to stop being assholes, I'll tell mine to stop being wusses.

NIce try liar, but you're caught and you know it

[dharbee]

Is "at war" the same as "engaged in military action"?

Have someone else answer that if it makes you feel better, liar. They'll tell you no too.

As to what I altered, I was simply making your statement accurate. Way to avoid admitting I caught you in a lie.

Stop trying so hard to find excuses and just own up. You'll feel better.

And as far as your "source", here's some knowledge for your ass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill_miscon duct_issues [wikipedia.org]

You "source" is a prove liar too. Two peas in a lying pod you are.

How other than voting?

[tepples]

US citizens are responsible for the actions of their government.

I was too young to vote until October 1998. So how can I be responsible for the actions of my government that occurred before January 1999, when the House of Representatives elected in November 1998 took office? And how can I be responsible for the actions of the neoconservative administration that I explicitly voted against? What should I do first to change the direction of the U.S. Government?

Re:for always and eternity

[Aqua_boy17]

I don't know if your comment is a troll or not, but I'll bite anyway. Travel to Cuba is strictly limited under US law. The laws were created under authority granted to the President's office via the 'Trading with the Enemy' act. You must obtain a license in order to travel Cuba legally. Licenses are only granted for scientific, educational, humanitarian and family visit puroses. More detail on the current law and it's history is here http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/87354. pdf [state.gov] (pdf warning). I'm not evoking boogeymen, but simply pointing out that a lot of posts here indicate a cavalier attitude towards travel to Cuba which is unwise if you live in the US.

A friend of mine (yeah, like I'm gonna post his peronal data on /.) travelled to Cuba via the Dominican Republic nearly 2 years ago. The State Department found out about it and he was fined over $1,700. That's a pretty hefty vacation tax. Bring back a couple of Cuban cigars and most likely, no one's going to notice it. Try bringing back a case and, at best it can be confiscated. At worst, you're looking at potential fines and prosecution. Like I said, the Customs and Homeland Security folks take their jobs pretty seriously.

I stand by my remarks.