Student Satirist Gets 3 Months; the Judge, Likely More 689
ponraul writes "When Judge Mark A. Ciavarella Jr., 58, sentenced Hillary Transue, 17, on a harassment charge stemming from a MySpace parody of her high school's assistant principal, Hillary expected to be let off with a stern lecture; instead, the Wilkes-Barre, PA area teen got three months in a commercially operated juvenile detention center. In a reversal of fortune, Ciavarella and his colleague, Judge Conahan, 56, find themselves trying to plea-bargain an 87-month sentence in Federal correctional facilities relating to a kick-back scheme that netted the pair $2.6 Million and PA Child Care 5000 inmates." True poetic justice would be for these corrupt, callous judges to serve their sentences in the same kind of environment to which they were happy to dispatch juvenile defendants.
3 months for satire? (Score:5, Insightful)
Poetic justice? (Score:5, Insightful)
True poetic justice would be for these corrupt, callous judges to serve their sentences in the same kind of environment to which they were happy to dispatch juvenile defendants.
Also operated on commercial grounds? Because the very concept of a commercial prison to me seems...something out of a really bad science fiction movie....
What about the kids? (Score:4, Insightful)
So do all the kids still have these marks on their records?
If so then these judges did permanent damage to these individuals. The judges should be charged with much more serious crimes. One count for every person they fucked over. Judges especially need to be held to higher standards, put them in prison for life.
No... (Score:4, Insightful)
justice business (Score:5, Insightful)
worst scum (Score:5, Insightful)
These two scumbags are in my state. And I'm in law school, so they also represent my profession. I've of course been following this story on the local media.
They sent kids to privately owned and operated juvenile detention facilities in exchange for kickbacks. They ruined the lives of children for money.
Hangings too good for 'em.
Satire? (Score:2, Insightful)
Might as well paint a target on forehead (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno, man. I'd imagine that being a former judge in a prison is right up there with being a former prosecutor. I wouldn't be surprised if they have to keep him on 24-hour isolation and/or suicide watch. He deserves much worse, but I suspect this will not be a cakewalk for him either.
Only 87 months? (Score:5, Insightful)
1. PA Child Care should be shut down. If their business model depends on crooked judges, their business model is wrong.
2. Now every single case that ended with juveniles sentenced there should be reviewed. (Looks like they're only looking at the one judge's 5000 cases. They need to look at all of them.) The former judge should be billed for all expenses.
3. Whoever paid the bribes, and whoever authorized them, and whoever knew about this business model and kept quiet, also need to be tried.
4. An appropriate punishment would be a month in jail for every month spent in the facility for every inmate he wrongfully sent there.
5. No profit.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to 21st Century America... get ready for a bumpy ride!
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also operated on commercial grounds? Because the very concept of a commercial prison to me seems...something out of a really bad science fiction movie....
It seems like something out of a particularly prescient sci-fi novel, to me.
We the People of the United States have allowed our allegedly-elected representatives to reinstitute slavery.
In any case, we already have slavery by proxy in this country, because we import literally tons of goods made with slave labor in China.
If you think we did away with slavery in the USA, think again.
As a related but not identical issue, disenfranchisement of felons means that you don't have to care how many of them you have - they can't vote, so even if you assumed that your vote counts, they would have been prevented from changing the system.
Re:Recourse (Score:5, Insightful)
For her this will be much worse than just three months wasted. I guess she will now have a "criminal record". Which means that the rest of her life she will have problems getting visa's, she will have rather tough job interviews, etc. Because often enough there is the simple question "were you ever.....". And those questions aren't distinguishing between what the conviction was for, and how long ago it happened. Very sad....
Re:No... (Score:3, Insightful)
USA: 5% of worlds pop., 25% - worlds prisoners (Score:1, Insightful)
Most prisoners are in for minor drug offenses. When will people realize that THE MAJORITY of judges are corrupt / receiving 'kickbacks' from the corrupt system, in which they get paid more and are employed longer for the more people the lock up.This not only goes for judges but for everyone employed in corrections, including the police and prison guards, the prison industrial complex, etc.
With the states, the federal government, running massive deficits w/ no end in sight, how long can we afford to wait?
Legalize and regulate, no person should be a criminal for voluntarily putting a substance in his own body, no matter how harmful the substance is, so long as they don't put any other individuals at risk (eg, permit sale, possession, and use, but still prohibit driving under the influence of anything and giving these substances to minors). Anything short is anti-free-society.
Re:There is actually (Score:5, Insightful)
> Just because the sentencing was wrong doesn't mean the crime wasn't committed.
You're making the assumption that even though the sentence was wrong, the judgement was not. You're assuming that a 'non-corrupt' judge would have also found them all guilty.
Some things should not be run for profit (Score:5, Insightful)
There are some things in this world that should never be run by private companies for the purposes of making a profit.
Prisons are one of them. The idea that people can make a profit by locking people up is repugnant. Much in the same way that mercenary forces are generally a bad idea. The last people you want are those that *want* more war because that way they make more money.
The profit incentive is fine in most cases, and generally I'm pro the free market, but there are some things we don't want to be encouraging.
Paul
Re:There is actually (Score:5, Insightful)
An AC says before if these marks are still on the records for the kids. Well why wouldn't they be? Just because the sentencing was wrong doesn't mean the crime wasn't committed.
At least in the case of Hillary Transue there was no crime, satire is constitutionally protect free speech. The judge was obviously making up crimes so he could sentence more kids to jail. Every one of the cases this judge had will have to be reviewed and retried, or if that's too expensive, they'll just have to expunge the records of everyone.
Seriously: Execute them (Score:5, Insightful)
Judicial corruption should get zero tolerance. For each of the 5000 kids sent to these private prisons for the profit of the judges, the judges should have an equal number of months to the kids' sentences removed from their lives. The punishment must fit the crime. Clearly, for the aggregate theft of life from children, these judges deserve death.
What these judges have done, in terms of total injury to others, is far worse than a single murder. They have also undermined the faith of the public in the justice system. This faith can only be restored by reforms to the justice system so that punishments truly fit the harms caused by the crimes.
Until we have a justice system in which men such as this face a sentence of death, we really don't have justice. Similarly, why is Bernie Madoff still walking around free? Steal $50 from a liquor store, go to jail. Steal $50 billion, and you're treated far better. And what about Dick Cheney? Our system is about punishing the poor and minorities in order to enforce a class system, not about really going after the psychopaths who are pushing our civilization over the edge.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem isn't that it was a commercially operated prison. The problem is that the payment structure was set up in such a way as to benefit the operator for an increased number of incarcerations. It shouldn't just be illegal, it should be unconstitutional for any contract or law to provide benefit to one party when another is found guilty of a crime.
Re:What about the kids? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not really the point. All of these kids should have their convictions vacated, and the DA's office should determine which of them, if any, they want to re-try.
The records may be sealed, but they still exist, and they can still be accessed in reality. Furthermore, the kids still have the feeling that they've been railroaded by the system. Doing the right thing here could at least give some of them the impression that the system is capable of doing more than unjustly imprisoning them. Carrying around a chip on their shoulder that the system is out to get them will greatly impact their direction in life.
Re:What about the kids? (Score:4, Insightful)
Putting them away for life just makes them a taxpayer burden. They aren't a threat to the public in any way. Instead, they should be punished appropriately. Obviously, disbarred, fined heavily since they likely aren't scraping for cash after all those kickbacks, lots of community service, loss of retirement/pension income, and a nice big felony record that will keep them from ever getting a decent job again.
-N
Just in case no one else has done this ... (Score:3, Insightful)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008739323_judges13.html [nwsource.com]
In case you hate being asked to log in to read an article.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
They corrupted the judgment system and left psychological scars on 5000 people, and they did it for profit.
They should be executed. If they are not executed by the system, then they should be executed by the people, lynch mob style.
Re:They got off easy (Score:5, Insightful)
If you were a judge would you heavily sentence another judge? (Not that I know this is the case, there could be maximum sentencing guidelines at work here.)
Re:What about the kids? (Score:3, Insightful)
While I agree that all the kids should have their convictions vacated & do not think it's a reasonable use of resources to retry any of them with the possible exception of a kid convicted of a violent crime who's sentence would be shortened by the vacating of the conviction. Pretty much all, if not all, of them should get a pass on this, the state had their shot & the state f'd it up through the corruption of the person presiding over the trial for personal gain.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:1, Insightful)
Isn't that the whole point of damages?
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem isn't that it was a commercially operated prison.
It is the sole duty of the operators of a commercial prison to maximize revenue for the shareholders.
That is at odds with the purpose of the law, which is (theoretically) to uphold justice.
As long as there is money to be made from incarcerating people, you WILL have sentences that will send people to prison who should not be there. Corruption is inevitable when the incentive exists.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:4, Insightful)
Damages [fxnetworks.com], on the other hand, is an excellent excuse to see Glenn Close and Rose Byrne in action. Legally flimsy, but cute nonetheless.
Re:America (Score:3, Insightful)
If the "justice system" can't be trusted to correctly hand down minor sentences, why on earth do you think they would be able to adminster the death penalty appropriately?
Re:There is actually (Score:3, Insightful)
Um..... WHAT?!
So you're position is that if a cop and a prosecutor think you are guilty, then you must be guilty and we should just skip the whole "fair trial" thing?
it's a sad sad world when people don't understand the point of checks and balances.
Anybody remember the First Ammendment? (Score:5, Insightful)
Note to self: If you're going to make fun of someone on MySpace, do it under an alias. Like "Bill Gates" for instance.
Re:Seriously: Execute them (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:3 months for satire? (Score:4, Insightful)
I doubt she was doing it for a public satire. Just an in-joke with her school.
Maybe that doesn't hold up under the legal definition of satire, but that's what the social reasoning is behind creating a page like that.
Re:Some things should not be run for profit (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, it is not just private prisons, state run prisons are subsidied based on their populations as well, and also charge inmates for their stay, as well as for stationary, envelopes, food, a few other things the inmates can have. I don't know how much that goes for, but if someone is greasing the fund it could be the same problem. And if traffic tickets are any indication even municipalities can be swayed by profit motives.
Then of course there are those big juicy lawsuits which come through. Sometimes just by suing for a big enough number people 'legally extort' a nice settlement. And look how much we pay big name lawyers... is that how much justice costs?
It would be nice in fact if the justice system could be entirely divorced from any personal transfer of money. Punitive damages should go to charity via some third party apparatus rather than being split between plaintiffs and lawyers. Positions such as warden in prisons and elsewhere should be constantly swapped to prevent the creation of any long term scams. And if governments 'make money' fining people for crimes, or locking them up, they should not be able to keep the excess, lest that create an incentive for them, but instead should have to return it to the taxpayers in general.
No allegations? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not even an allegation of abuse?
That seems awfully unlikely. Even if none at all were going on, there are some kids who would claim it was, if for no better reason than to fuck with the administrators, or even just to get attention.
And the percentage of kids who would make something like that up is probably higher among those that end up getting sent to a juvenile detention facility than among the general populace.
To go five years without even a single accusation (even if it's proven false) makes me think that complaints are simply ignored and no records kept.
That isn't a kickback (Score:2, Insightful)
That is *slavery* for profit, human trafficking.
Re:There is actually (Score:3, Insightful)
But you have to remember that a cop has to press the charges to be heard before the judge, and a prosecutor argue the case. So I would think if the case was worth trying or pressing charges, then the crime did happen.
Really? REALLY?
Well, if that's the case, why do we even have trials? Seems pretty pointless...
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:5, Insightful)
And that will undo everything, will it? All those kids will be A-OK again?
Capital punishment solves nothing, and just feeds the basest desire of humans for revenge.
This is a terrible crime against society, I agree, and the punishment should be banishment. The system we have for that is called prison, and they should be going there for a very long time.
While they're there, society should find a way to make sure that such a thing never happens again.
This is the proper way to do things. Merely calling for the guilty parties' deaths is a simplistic, brutal way to conduct proceedings that should be nothing but a memory of the dark ages.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
I consider myself mostly libertarian, and I find myself in complete agreement with drinkypoo. The privatization I mostly see is one where the profits are privatized, but the costs are spread to the taxpayer. Privatized prisons are a horrific idea. If we make incarceration profitable we will get more of it. Prisons should be costly, ugly, and damaging to communities so that perhaps we consider a little more carefully if a person really needs to be locked up.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
sorry AC, have you seen some of our Austrian school commentators around here? Does the phrase laissez faire mean anything to you? Nothing is sacred in (some) libertarian circles, from justice to environmental controls, everything can be done better privately than publicly. Hell, private soldiering is blasé now.
Besides, the ideas have done a great job of discrediting themselves over the last 6 months - I just like to poke at the hopelessly naive and the dangerous ideologues from time to time.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
What's the point of that? Maybe you'd have a point if the public had to intervene - if there was no other recourse - but as is stands the damage is done and they've been caught. None of it will be fixed by killing them in some brutish rage.
In a system that doles out capital punishment, I think the broken cogs in that system could use some strong incentive to behave properly. If (when?) there's profits to be made in execution, the wronged will be more than emotionally scarred.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd rather have them put down because they're expensive to keep and likely to perform similar crimes in the future. Plus, I'd be more inclined to accept your point of view if 87 months weren't a little over 7 years. Considering the life-changing impact that being a ward of the juvenile penal system has, 87 months is a tiny little sliver of their lives. In a perfect world they would have to spend the rest of their lives making restitution. I suppose being in with the adult criminals is as good as being in with the juvenile criminals, though. Either way they get to see what kind of culture they've exposed their "charges" to.
In an ideal world perhaps every judge should spend a night a month observing a jail so that they understand better the environment to which they're sentencing people.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
Sigh... I keep seeing that sentiment here, and it still remains untrue.
Most corporations operate this way in spirit, but not all. By nature, public corporations act this way... but prison corps (even when publically held) are not as sensitive to market forces (and therefore maximization of profits), since their survival (and thus profits) comes from exclusive government contract, not from a free market.
The truth of the matter is that corporations are free to act in whatever way they choose wrt profit, as long as it is established in the corporate charter. Public companies act to maximize profit because to do otherwise spells D-O-O-M for their stock. But there are some very visible counter-examples, such as 'green' corporations who make exceptions to profit-maximization in order to be environmentally responsible... and since it's in the charter, no shareholder can take civil action against them for failure to make decisions in the interests of the shareholders.
We need to expect more from the corporations that have so much influence on our government, and part of that is expecting them to see beyond this quarter's profits, and part of it is having them recognize the value of acting responsibly. This last part can be done in two ways -- reward them for responsible behavior, or punish them for irresponsible behavior. Only when they factor in this additional cost/revenue can we have faith in them to act responsibly.
In this case, the prison company should be forced to make restitution to all people sentenced in this kickback scheme, and to the public for the cost of incarceration, as well as the additional costs we'll bear as a result of the incarceration. Ideally this would bankrupt the company, so another one would get to fill the spot (with hopefully more responsible decision-makers).
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
Nice strawman. Why don't you open a book once in a while and actually learn about the ideas you're trying to discredit rather than trolling on slashdot?
Libertarian ideas are toxic to well organized minds. Nobody sane wants to damage their brains that badly. Also, as libertarian ideas do not have any credit to begin with, there's nothing to discredit. But a lot to make fun of, kind of like making fun of people who believe other incredibly dumb things, like creationism, the moon landing was a hoax, or the earth is flat.
Re:What about the kids? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What about the kids? (Score:1, Insightful)
You mean,
Juvenile records are supposed to be sealed when you reach the age of majority(18), ...
FTFY
The courts DO NOT work the way people conceptually think they work. They are prone to, and even more subject to, error and corruption just like every other industry.
Have known, and know several people who are in their late 20's who have been burned cause their juvenile records, WERE NOT, as you say "sealed". And, they were looking at $10,000+ in legal fees, and 100+ hours of their own time to get their records sealed. Something that SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Re:3 months for satire? (Score:5, Insightful)
C'mon, binding/imprisoning people for profit?
And they said slavery was dead.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
1. You make the typical, rather foolish and blatantly wrong argument that "capital punishment solves nothing." No. It solves several problems. It punishes the guilty, prevents them from re-offending, and reduces our overpopulation problem. What you MEANT to say was that "it is not more effective than prison at preventing crime". As long people foolishly exxagerate the minor problems of capital punishment, you undermine our case. The problem with capital punishment is NOT that it is infective. It works, but not well.
2. The problem with Captial Punishment is two fold: A. Our legal system is imperfect and routinely convicts innocent people. DNA evidence indicates that around 5% of convictions are false. Killing the innocent means we get no opportunity to correct our mistakes. B. It is INSUFFICIENT penalty for the worst crimes. I want the SOBs that rape and kill children to be permenatly locked in prision and PREVENTED from killing themselves.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
Responding to level4 - criminal justice is not about making it right for the victims (that's what their civil cases will be about). You say that society should come up with a way to eliminate these things from happening in the future. Now, a little thought experiment; assume that executing these judges would deter other judges from doing the same things. Shouldn't we hang them then? I'd argue that if in their deaths, they deter this behavior in the future, that this is probably the only redemption they'll ever get (the rat-fink-fucking-bastards).
Re:Seriously: Execute them (Score:1, Insightful)
Make no mistake: we have two justice systems. One for "us", and one for "them".
As much as I wish it weren't so, it always has been and always will be that way.
Re:3 months for satire? (Score:2, Insightful)
Apparently neither of us is a lawyer.
Re:3 months for satire? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't really "satire" your high school principle; they're unlikely to meet the "public figure" criteria that would protect the person who is making fun of them from legal repercussions if anything strayed over the line.
Really? A public-school principal works for the government, in a position of authority, and has broad discretionary power over the students under their charge. They are well-known in their community and frequently act as the public-face of their organization. Certainly, a high-school principal is not as famous as, say, Barrack Obama but it is quite arguable that he is a bona fide public figure for the purposes of satire.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
So, because you fear that a judge might corruptly impose a death penalty some day, we should treat these judges as proxies for your hypothetical judge and punish them more severely than their actual crimes merit?
Of cousre, these judges wouldn't be handling death penalty cases. (Not to mention death sentences are generally handed out by a jury, not a judge.) And although they've shown the moral flexibility to either convince themselves that imprisoning these kids was ok, or to not care if it was ok, that's not enough to infer that they would send a person to death.
A person is not the system of which he is a part. I agree with those who think a judge should be held to a high standard -- that he or she accepts greater responsibility in exchange for his or her authority. However, a judge is still a human with basic rights. The punishment has to fit the crime actually committed (not the worst-case scenario that we can somehow call similar), and while this crime was severe, it does not warrant a death sentence.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm certainly not arguing for a control economy - but what we need is effective (not necessarily more, not less) government oversight. The whole idea is that if we think that e.g. the banking sector is so indispensable that it must be propped up at all costs (which it probably is) we damn well ought to be making sure they don't do objectively stupid things like leverage themselves 40:1 - and paying themselves billions for driving the company into the ground. There's little mystery why the W administration was only weakly interested in such things - they didn't think government could work.
Why people would continue to vote for candidates who's position is that the office they're running for is ineffective is beyond me.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
A most American sentiment, and not surprisingly endorsed by feedback. First: the rest of the world is not a sort of circle of hell into which sinners fear to be thrown. Many of us are quite happy to live here, thank you, and so presumably would be your criminals. Second: the rest of the world is not available for the free use of America. Your suggestion assumes that your exile's "country of choice" would accept him. I rather suspect they'd put him on the next flight home, with an order via diplomatic channels for America to solve her own problems in her own land.
Re:There is actually (Score:5, Insightful)
During primaries lasty year, I had 2 votes: One in primaries and on in the jury box. And I consider my jury box vote so much more worthy than a primary vote.
We saw a case where a guy was charged with a DUI. Defendant took stand and said he was going to a Sundance festival which they hold around here. He was stockpiling alcohol for the parties. He parked and started to drink, cause it was too late for pitching the tent. Cop playing rent-a-cop was watching over the festival. He claimed that he saw defendant driving erratic.
Problem:
1. radioed for help to an on-duty cop. aww shucks. no logs
2. main cop said one thing in deposition. said something else in open court. lied.
3. log books not filled out. shucks.
4. timing on cops story didnt work out. there was an hour of unaccounted time. defendant explained what happened and made sense timewise and reasonwise.
5. main cop was just smarmy on stand. there was stuff he was hiding and the defense attorney found it.
Yeah, took us 5 minutes for a not guilty verdict. Took us longer to get the attorneys re-convened. However, considering the opinion in the jury room, we would have tried the cops for perjury. But thats not how our systems works :( Corrupted officials keep their jobs. hurray.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you feel that's only getting off lightly?
Their failed justice sent undeserving people to PMITA prison and their butts with the Constitution. They abused their authority over the lives of their subjects for nothing but money. In this case, yes, I think prison is a light sentence for them.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, okay, well there goes that part of my argument. One could argue that there is no take-backsies if you fuck up and imprison someone for a good part of their natural life either, but that's immaterial, considering that my principal argument is about money. Due process is important to me too, so I can see your point.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:5, Insightful)
Capital punishment solves nothing, and just feeds the basest desire of humans for revenge.
What is the point of prison? This is a philosophical question and the answer to this determines whether or not you think the death penalty is a bad idea.
One view is that prisons are "banishment" as you describe. The purpose of prison is, in theory, to simply separate the criminal from the rest of society with the primary goal of protecting the society from the criminal. No attempt is made to change the criminal in any significant way. This is the European model.
Another view is that prison is punishment. Criminals are intended to suffer while in prison. Society is protected by deterrence, knowing the punishment that faces them criminals will be less likely to offend or re-offend. In such as system corporal punishment, especially execution, is preferred because it has a dramatic impact and it's cheaper.
The American system combines both aspects. Criminals are separated from society for very long periods in jails where they're tortured. We, as a society, have decided this is the way to go.
There are numerous other theories. Prisons were originally designed around the concept of penance. A prisoner would be confined with the Bible and required to take religious instruction. It's assumed the prisoner will eventually repent their sins and adopt a virtuous life whereupon they are released.
Now, if you don't believe that deterrence works on criminals (Either it works or it doesn't, you can't say that "fear of jail" works but "fear of death" doesn't) then you shouldn't support the death penalty because it won't deter criminals.
This is completely separate from questions on the application of the death penalty. Namely that only extremely poor mostly non-white men are executed in the USA. These judges DO NOT meet that criteria, which is why they can't get the death penalty. Even if they committed mass murders on national TV.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
>>>Capital punishment solves nothing, and just feeds the basest desire of humans for revenge
Yes. If I was victim of one of these corrupt judges and had to waste several months or years in the hell called "juvie", then yes I'd want my revenge. Death to the Tyrants. Same thing that People have done to kings and dictators for years. They deserve it.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
the ones that called government "interferences" like regulating CDSs and MBSs abhorrent obstructions to delicate market signals.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem isn't that it was a commercially operated prison.
It is the sole duty of the operators of a commercial prison to maximize revenue for the shareholders.
Even if that were true, if revenues and profits for the company running the prison weren't linked to the number of prisoners, then there's no conflict of interest. In fact, if the contract specified a fixed fee for running the facility, the company would have incentive to keep people out rather than trying to get more people in.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
It only takes the cost of a few bullets if the execution is performed by the People. "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." -- Founder of the Democratic Party, Thomas Jefferson, to James Madison, January 30, 1787. "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787
Judges and other government employees who abuse the trust of their employers (the People) deserve only one outcome. No "golden parachutes" or other means of escape.
Re:What about the kids? (Score:3, Insightful)
No. This is collusion to commit kidnapping for profit.
Someone with this little regard for the basic human rights of others is the worst threat to the public. They need to be forcibly segregated from the rest of us, in a place where they can receive whatever treatment is necessary to fix their broken brains, until such time as they are capable of treating their fellow humans with at least the minimum level of respect necessary to trust them to roam free among us.
For profit run criminal justice (Score:3, Insightful)
It's just a bad idea to have any for profit company running criminal justice operations such as prisons. I remember a story about one of the companies running many Texas prisons. The law forbids them from lobbying about laws increasing the penalties for crimes or making new criminal laws. Although they were prohibited from outright lobbying they were found to be using "back door" means to influence the state legislature. Some of the things they were doing is to form "community organizations" which they then funded heavily.
The profit motive in criminal justice should just be eliminated. Criminal justice should be run entirely by the state. We should still have prisons just stop having private companies operate them.
Re:worst scum (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
From what I understand:
These guys, hopefully, will get out of prison in their mid 60s with no job skills they can use, no money, and nothing but Social Security to depend upon. That's probably the best justice we can get. If you believe in God, hope God pays them back.
Libel Lawsuit vs. Criminal Case (Score:3, Insightful)
The issue of whether somebody is a "public figure" affects libel lawsuits - if the principal were suing her, it might have some relevance.
This is a criminal case - the principal was alleging "harassment" or some similarly bogus charge.
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:3, Insightful)
So, if someone wrongly incarcerates 5000 people for 3 months each, does it follow that they should be incarcerated themselves for 1250 years? Would that be the punishment fitting the crime?
That would depend on your belief system of justice.
Garibaldi: I'm an eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth kinda guy, Ambassador.
Delenn: So you support a system that would leave everyone blind and toothless.
Garibaldi: Not everyone; just the bad guys.
But then, do you divide that 1250 years up amongst the co-conspirators, or do they each get the same sentence?
Re:3 months for satire? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
Corruption is inevitable when the incentive exists.
Congratulations! You comprehend human nature! Don't engage in political conversations, all political theories are based on the notion that men are angels. Even the ones that start from the point that they aren't. Those merely say some men aren't angels, then set up corruption-prone systems to deal with the devils, counting on the fact that the men running their governments are angels. The crowning irony of the Bush years was the party of people who believe government is the enemy supporting giving broad power to the government to deal with its enemies... XD
Re:Poetic justice? (Score:2, Insightful)
That can happen no matter who runs the prisons. If you think there's some general method of preventing corruption in human institutions, you're fooling yourself. Badly.
Perfect... enemy... good...
You can't make a system corruption-proof, but that doesn't mean all alternatives are equally bad. All human institutions are corruptible, but some are more susceptible than others.
Re:"outsourced" prisons are common (Score:2, Insightful)
Same reason you'd outsource anything else - constrain costs and not be stuck with inventory.
I thought the usual reason was to shift away responsibility, benefit your friends and/or receive kickbacks.
For all judges (Score:2, Insightful)