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Education United States Science

US Adults Fail Basic Science Literacy 1038

TaeKwonDood writes "Do you want the bad news first or the good news? The good news is that about 80% of Americans think science knowledge is 'very important' to our future. The bad news is most of those people think it's up to someone else to get knowledgeable. Only 15% actually know how much of the planet is covered in water (47% if you accept a rough approximation of the exact number) and over 40% think dinosaurs and humans cavorted together like in some sort of 'Land Of The Lost' episode. What to do? Pres. Obama thinks merit pay for teachers makes sense. Yes, it will enrage the teachers' union, but it might inspire better people to go into science teaching. It's either that or accept that almost 50% of Americans won't know how long it takes the earth to go around the sun."
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US Adults Fail Basic Science Literacy

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  • Re:47% (Score:5, Informative)

    by Da Fokka ( 94074 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:37AM (#27180347) Homepage

    15% got it right, 47% came close.

  • Re:47% (Score:5, Informative)

    by stoolpigeon ( 454276 ) * <bittercode@gmail> on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:38AM (#27180365) Homepage Journal

    The problem is in the summary - not the article. The article has it right. The survey accepted anything between 65 and 75 percent as correct. 47% of the people in the survey got it right.

  • Re:Wha? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Ninnle Labs, LLC ( 1486095 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:43AM (#27180409)

    You know, I'll own up to not knowing that it was exactly 47% of the earth that was covered with water. I actually thought it was a lot closer to 70%, and, apparently, so does Google, so its a common misconception. I wonder if one of us isn't counting ice?

    The summary isn't saying that 47% of the earth is covered in water. It is a poorly worded attempt at saying that 15% of the respondents got the answer right, while 47% got the answer approximately write. TaeKwonDood is just shitty at writing English.

  • Re:Wha? (Score:3, Informative)

    by carambola5 ( 456983 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:45AM (#27180455) Homepage

    Poor wording in the article... 47% of those surveyed were correct if you accept a rough approximation of the exact number... which happens to be 70-71%

  • by synthparadox ( 770735 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:49AM (#27180511) Homepage

    Actually, thats kdawson's fault. If you read the original firehose article by TaeKwonDood you'll see that the bit of incorrect grammar was actually placed in by kdawson.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:51AM (#27180539)

    No it just slowed everyone down to the moron's pace.

  • by superbus1929 ( 1069292 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:53AM (#27180593) Homepage
    kdawson's the editor. He fucks up everything he touches.

    C'mon mods, fire away on me!
  • Re:Wha? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Minupla ( 62455 ) <minupla@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:55AM (#27180629) Homepage Journal

    70% is bang on, the (poorly worded) article was saying 47% of respondents got it within a margin of error (65%-75%), 15% got it right (70%).

    As usual when you condense a page and a half article to 2 lines, it loses something :)

    Min

  • Re:easy merit pay (Score:5, Informative)

    by Gordonjcp ( 186804 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:59AM (#27180703) Homepage

    The cream will rise to the top in the private-sector schools, as it does now.

    Ah yes, privately-educated Americans. Those fortunate people whose parents paid out most of their income to send them to schools designed to extract as much profit from the education system as possible. This is why I have to teach people who are supposedly of university calibre basic arithmetic, that goes beyond their school's "If Sheneequa goes to McDonalds and buys three Big Macs for $6, and Ernest goes to Burger King and only gets two burgers for $5, then how much better value is McDonalds?" questions.

    I really, *really* wish I was joking.

  • Re:47% (Score:4, Informative)

    by RDW ( 41497 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @11:01AM (#27180721)

    According to The Register, the calacademy guys who set the quiz originally got this 'wrong' too, basically because the 61-70% and 71-80% ranges they presented split too close to the generally accepted answer:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/12/californian_science_dunces [theregister.co.uk]

    Picking 71-80% would give a 'wrong' answer, even though (e.g.) NOAA gives 71% as the current estimate. The site now seems to have been changed to include a 66-75% range...

  • Re:Surprise. (Score:3, Informative)

    by fataugie ( 89032 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @11:01AM (#27180729) Homepage

    The sentence from the article is jacked up.
    Perhaps if they wrote it more clearly, then your comment would be more appropriate.

  • Re:! science (Score:3, Informative)

    by Jaysyn ( 203771 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @11:03AM (#27180743) Homepage Journal

    " mere names of places...are not geography... know by heart a whole gazetteer full of them would not, in itself, constitute anyone a geographer. Geography has higher aims than this: it seeks to classify phenomena (alike of the natural and of the political world, in so far as it treats of the latter), to compare, to generalize, to ascend from effects to causes, and, in doing so, to trace out the great laws of nature and to mark their influences upon man. This is 'a description of the world' -that is Geography. In a word Geography is a Science -a thing not of mere names but of argument and reason, of cause and effect. "

    -William Hughes, 1863

  • by cerberusss ( 660701 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @11:26AM (#27181157) Journal

    People, the parent is not the real kdawson (the editor). An editor has a little slashdot symbol next to his name. This guy has the username "kdawson (3715)" but actually has a very high user ID, 1344097.

    He's trolling.

  • Re:47% (Score:5, Informative)

    by pzs ( 857406 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @12:06PM (#27181819)

    In programming, if you misspell a variable, the program usually doesn't work.

    Usually? Does this mean you've found a programming language where the compiler says 'oh, he's put "conut", but he probably meant "count"' and corrects it for you?

    Actually, that sounds like a bit of a nightmare. Autocorrect usually causes as many problems as it solves. [nih.gov]

  • by labradore ( 26729 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @12:22PM (#27182089)
    Here in Pasco county Florida, we have no room for science. You guys already know we can't count (ballots) so this should come as no big surprise. My wife teaches kindergarten and my mom teaches elementary science and math in the slightly more learning-friendly nearby Hillsborough county.

    Here's the run down for Pasco:

    1. No living things more active than moss are allowed in the classroom. No turtles, no hamsters, no fish, no frogs, no rabbits ...
    2. Every minute of every day of these kids schooling is planned out and filled with rigid, must-do activities. Yes, even the kindergartners. They are filled with things like a 45 minute "reading" block. 5-year-olds have a attention span of 5 minutes, if you're lucky. Many adults that I know chafe if they have to sit and read or listen for that long. Another great must-do is teacher-supervised exercise periods every day. They are made to walk in circles around the bus loop for a half hour or more. This is not recess. The kids don't get to run around in a field under a tree or play on swings and jungle-jims. They walk. Sometimes they do walking games like follow-the-leader. I personally cannot think of a more asinine waste of childhood. Kids need uncontrolled, low-supervision time to just play but instead we are conditioning them into exercising from the beginning of their internment at school.
    3. In Hillsborough county teachers do get merit pay. It's based on test scores and voting. It is highly politicized. Most decent teachers hate it. In Pasco, the teachers were at least smart enough to say no to merit pay, foreseeing the acrimony that it would create because school administration does not have the ability to implement it in an objective and unfair way.
    4. Teachers teach the standarized tests. Schools, not students, are being judged by these tests. Florida was held up as one of the models for the nation in no child left behind. It's a complete disaster. There is no single piece of data that shows that the testing and teaching to the testing is helping the kids learn any better. It is, however, creating a great deal of expensive bureaucracy and causing pain for the kids and the teachers, because one of the features of the testing is that if you don't pass, you don't move up a grade and if your school doesn't make sufficient "adequate yearly progress" you get a whole lot more mandatory attention and supervision from the district administration. In other words, schools that don't meet arbitrary standards will get micro-managed for at least a year and become even-more miserable places to work.
    5. The standarized tests (FCAT) are focused on reading, writing and math. The science portion has almost nothing to do with real science that kids could learn and teachers could teach.
    6. We're facing budget cuts. More administration, more top-down control and more regulation of "education" are not needed. Teachers have college degrees and pass tests to become professionals. They should be treated like professionals. They should be fired when they don't perform and they should be rewarded when they excel. There is no provision for this at all. Good luck improving your science scores.
  • Merit Pay (Score:3, Informative)

    by dcollins ( 135727 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @12:24PM (#27182137) Homepage

    Pres. Obama thinks merit pay for teachers makes sense... It's either that or accept that almost 50% of Americans won't know how long it takes the earth to go around the sun.

    That is a false choice. Other options include (a) more rigorous standards, (b) more willingness for teachers to fail students and fight grade-inflation, (c) lessening students' consumerist expectations that they are paying for grades, etc. I believe that I'm consistently the highest-rated teacher where I teach. Yet I would not want merit pay to be implemented.

    Here's what the Urban Institute found in a statistical study:

    A study by the Urban Institute found some positive short-lived effects of merit pay, but concluded that most merit pay plans "did not succeed at implementing lasting, effective ... plans that had a demonstrated ability to improve student learning." Problems included low teacher morale because of increased competition between teachers, as well as wasted time and money in the administration of the merit pay plans. The same study found "little evidence from other research...that incentive programs (particularly pay-for-performance) had led to improved teacher performance and student achievements.

    Here's what the Libertarian Cato Institute says:

    Marie Gryphon, an education policy analyst at the Cato Institute, makes some practical objections:
    - The system can't simply reward high scores. If it did, it would favor teachers in wealthy neighborhoods whose students came to school with excellent skills. Nor can the system reward only improvement. If it did, it would unfairly penalize teachers whose students were already scoring too well to post large gains.
    - Moreover, any money for test results scheme will worsen the problem of teachers cheating on standardized tests to avoid the consequences of the No Child Left Behind Act. Teachers willing to erase wrong answers on exams to avoid having their school labeled "needing improvement" will also be tempted by the thought of a personal raise.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_pay#Other_opposition [wikipedia.org]

  • by dunkelfalke ( 91624 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @12:46PM (#27182437)

    in later stories it came out, though, that holmes did possess much more general knowledge (and especially about copernican theory) than he admitted in "study in scarlet", so it is very much possible that holmes is pulling watson's leg at this point.

  • by aaronfaby ( 741318 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @12:55PM (#27182605)
    It's scientific accepted fact. Secondly, carbon dating is not used on dinosaur fossils. Carbon-14 is limited to about 50,000 years. There are many, many more methods of dating such as potassium-argon and uranium-thorium. You'd do well to actually research a topic before you attempt to discuss it.
  • by ShadowRangerRIT ( 1301549 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @01:23PM (#27183031)
    Important distinction: A belief in creationism doesn't prevent you from engaging in science (though depending on how literally you hew to it, it may be an impediment to certain aspects of biology), but it's directly antithetical to scientific modes of thought. Scientific modes of thought require you to start from evidence, develop theories, and test them. None of that applies to creationism. If an all powerful deity did manage to create the world in seven days, he made a pretty impressive back story for it. As I noted in another response though, you could just as easily say the world started five minutes ago, and all our memories were created with it. It's a great theory, but without either evidence or any way to test it, it's not science.
  • Re:Surprise. (Score:2, Informative)

    by jtosburn ( 63943 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @02:44PM (#27184219)

    I do find it interesting that many private schools have an annual tuition that's less than the average amount we are paying per student for public schools and manage to turn out higher test scores and better educated/adjusted students.

    This misses two points:

    1 - Most private schools are partially subsidized by their religious sponsor, so tuition is lower than the actual cost of providing the education. This serves to spread the indoctrination provided to a wider group of people, a goal of all religions. I wonder what the actual cost to provide the education is, on a per student basis. The non-subsidized private schools that I know of are more than $8300 / year / student.

    2 - Private schools can give the boot to students who are unable or unwilling to perform academically. They can also expel those who disrupt classrooms. They actually have authority and cannot be sued by parents, since those parents have agreed to a set of terms at enrollment. This then cuts off the bottom of the sample set, and comparisons with public schools that include not only their own bottom performers, but those formerly of private schools, will drag down the overall performance of public schools.

    I think that this undermines any idea for a market solution; indeed the point of public education is that since society benefits from an educated populace, society should bear that cost, and that to be equitable, quality education should not be available only to those with money.

    No doubt, public schools in the US are not delivering nearly as well as they should, but as an idea, other places have more successful implementations that lead me to believe the problem is in our system, not in the underlying idea.

    Lastly, you assertion that private school graduates are better adjusted is questionable. Reinforcing narrow minded beliefs about everything from gender equality, sexual orientation, and racial divisions, and then using guilt as a primary lever of control, does not produce well adjusted individuals. Not all private schools are like that, and certainly not all private school graduates are like that, but to blithely assert that such people are better adjusted is just too much.

  • by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @08:55PM (#27188969) Journal

    Yes, that's correct. No less than St. Augustine warned against this sort of thing:

    "It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation."
    - De Genesi ad literam 1:19-20, Chapt. 19

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