RIP the Campus Computer Lab, 1960-2009 571
theodp writes "When every student has a laptop, why run computer labs? That's a question schools have been asking themselves as computer ownership rates among incoming freshmen routinely top 90%. After only four freshmen showed up at the University of Virginia in 2007 without a computer of their own, the school decided that it's no longer worth the expense of running campus computer labs. Student computer labs have been a staple of campus life since the '60s. So what are the benefits that will be missed as other schools follow UVa's lead?" The university's report notes understanding that "that students need collaborative space where they can bring their laptops and mobile devices to conduct group work, especially as the curriculum becomes increasingly team- and project-based." One of the spaces formerly occupied by computer labs "has been transformed into a technology-rich collaboration area."
Printing (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, keep one around.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Add to total cost for student (Score:3, Insightful)
Computer labs aren't only computer rooms... (Score:5, Insightful)
I completly disagree with the removing of computer labs and i would just point two issues:
a) Freshman can have a portable, but they don't have the array of servers that currently are needed for a complete CS courseware. How do they program in cluster computers, clustered database servers and so on? Yes, you may be able to skip on the ton of personal computers, but you will still need the IT infrastructure to support a proper learning experience;
b) It is not appropriate to ask every freshman to ditch hard coin for a program just to learn something. In that case, the usual setup is for the school to have a computer room with computers and all the programs required. Also bear in mind that many programs aren't exactly instalable on a portable computer...
So yup... you may be right that the "need" for perssonnal computers aren't currently that great, but nope, computer labs will always be needed on schools that relate to IT.
Spend the money supporting the students' PCs (Score:3, Insightful)
Provide (or upgrade) campus-wide wifi, provide an on-campus "geek squad" that actually knows what they're doing, etc.
As an instructor, software uniformity is crucial. (Score:5, Insightful)
When a system problem can't be solved by having the student move to another workstation while IT is re-imaging a lab computer, weeks of course time and homework can be lost. It is a headache keeping track of excused late assignments.
Not to mention software licensing issues.. It forces the instructor into a legal and moral choice between running the "new & hot" version the students are running and last years license the school purchased. Isn't your highest obligation to teach the students? And don't even start me on instant messaging.
What about software? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a civil engineering student and throughout my course I had to do a bunch of projects that demanded all sorts of software and although a bunch of that software has a free counterpart (openoffice, latex, maxima, GCC, etc...), we are still forced to use software that not only doesn't have any free counterpart but also costs an arm and a leg to begin with (I'm looking at you, autocad). That alone makes the computer lab to be nothing short of invaluable. That and the fact that my school's computer lab also sells prints.
Then there's the safety aspect. Nowadays I'm able to go to class with nothing more than a pencil, A4 paper, an USB drive. That's about 15 euros worth of stuff. If suddenly I was forced to carry around a laptop then that value would easily surpass the 600 euros mark, all that concentrated on a neat, easily stealable toy.
Not always going to work (Score:5, Insightful)
At my university (specifically, at the Faculty of Electronics, which includes network and systems engineering), this would not work very well, if at all.
First, several absurdly expensive applications like Matlab (yeah, everyone here knows about Octave, but the industry wants students to learn to use Matlab) are available only on the lab servers, and while it's possible to forward the X connection from the server and have them appear on the laptop's desktop (in fact, that's how they work on the lab computers), most Windows-using students can't be bothered even to install and use PuTTY and Xming properly, and even then, using Matlab over a WiFi connection is not for the faint of heart and weak-tempered.
Second, some things are to be accessed only from university-owned computers, such as the IEEE Xplore database and several scientific journals, and there's nothing the university could do about this, it's just how academic licensing works.
There are probably some more cases such as those, so the labs are here to stay for some more time, I think.
Re:Computer Labs are still useful (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree; student laptops are useful for generic computer usage, but not that great for assuming a particular set of software, unless you're going to go the extra step and mandate that students buy a particular computer with a particular OS and software environment. If you aren't going to do that, you're stuck with some of your students running Windows, some OS X, a handful Linux, and very little you can assume about what they can install and run.
If you have a computer lab with some known software install, you know that if you want to use some Mac-only app in the curriculum, for example, you can send them over to the Mac lab to use it (likewise for Unix- or Windows-only stuff).
Mission Change (Score:5, Insightful)
They are still needed to provide access to specialized professional applications which would be too expensive for individual students to license. High end scientific, art, media and simulation applications are too expensive or require too much computing power for the average student with a laptop to realistically use.
Re:As an instructor, software uniformity is crucia (Score:3, Insightful)
It's pretty much necessary, though, given limited time. Generally, you want to be teaching concepts, not fiddling with software details, and that's easiest if you just pick one piece of software for the purposes of teaching, and assume people can learn the details of other software on their own. So, for example, if you're teaching C++, you might want to be able to just assume everyone has access to g++ and GNU make, preferably all in the same version, instead of also dealing with XCode and Visual Studio and gcc under Cygwin and god knows what else. The easiest way to do that is just to have a Unix computer lab students have access to.
Re:Printing (Score:5, Insightful)
Course software (Score:3, Insightful)
Spoken like a true idealist problem solver. Two of my favorite CS classes dealt with circuit design, and we depended heavily on a simulator (LogicWorks - not great, but it does the trick) instead of breadboards. I had to use the computer lab because its were the only computers available that could boot into Windows. Are you really saying that these courses should ditch the simulator, on principle, because classes shouldn't require specific software? Or that any student who finds a different simulator should be able to use it (which introduces all manner of hell for graders)?
Re:Computer Labs are still useful (Score:5, Insightful)
"I agree; student laptops are useful for generic computer usage, but not that great for assuming a particular set of software, unless you're going to go the extra step and mandate that students buy a particular computer with a particular OS and software environment. If you aren't going to do that, you're stuck with some of your students running Windows, some OS X, a handful Linux, and very little you can assume about what they can install and run."
If you are going to do that, you'll increase costs, especially when you have to renegotiate site licenses and volume pricing because you've mandated a change.
There's also a consideration for when your "nice to have campus wi-fi" becomes a critical component across colleges, and suddenly you've outgrown your Bluesocket solution or whatever. Campus administrators at the risk-management level of funding won't miss this sort of thing. They may be pinheads when it comes to technology, but they have uncanny talent for anticipating hidden costs, particularly when those costs can't be absorbed by a single college or department.
One word: Engineering (Score:5, Insightful)
At the University of Michigan, where I attend, there is a huge amount of software that engineering students have access to on any of the CAEN (computer aided engineering network) computers. All my complaints aside, the engineering network is one of the most useful resources. I have a fair amount of University storage space, access to all my files on any CAEN computer, and generally a lot more computing power available than on most student's laptops.
Students will routinely run simulations and analyses on the computers, letting them run overnight, or even days. Above all, without an engineering computer network, student teams, such as Solar Car, FSAE, Baja, etc. would not be able to design, build, and compete on the same level.
A properly run computer network can be a great way to provide access to a huge resource with an array of software otherwise unavailable or too costly for students.
Re:Still Important (Score:1, Insightful)
All that stuff can be loaded onto virtual machines that you could access from your laptop anywhere on campus.
Re:Computer Labs are still useful (Score:5, Insightful)
I know at least at my school, they had a number of computer labs. The largest were big, general purpose labs, with little more then a web browser and e-mail. These were always deserted. I found myself spending a lot of time in them for a period of about a week when my power supply died under warranty and I was waiting on the RMA. I never saw them used more then 25%. Of course part of that is probably because they were locked down heavily and ran pretty slowly. They also had smaller, special purpose computer labs in the various departments, that were always packed. Even though they were less conveniently located, they had better computers and the various specialized software used in courses. Furthermore, they also often felt more comfortable, because you would be surrounded by peers in your department, and didn't have that "empty library" atmosphere where people talk in hushed whispers.
The other computers that were ALWAYS in use was the first floor of the library. The library had a coffee shop, and lots of computers and tables that made it easy for group collaboration.
It seems to me that if you are a college administrator, you should probably spend a day in any computer lab you are investing resources in. See if it's being used, see what it's used for, and talk to the student's about why they chose that particular lab. Some are probably underused, some are probably in high demand. The prevalence of personal computers probably means the days of students packing the room just to use a word processor are probably over. That doesn't mean labs over all are done for.
Re:I wonder if the economy will change that back.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:As an instructor, software uniformity is crucia (Score:2, Insightful)
Mechanical engineers need to graduate with hands-on experience with a professional CAD package. Since these are far too expensive for students to buy, and there are no open-source alternatives, universities need to buy the software. When a university is buying CAD software, it makes sense to only buy one package, rather than waste money on several.
Re:Not always going to work (Score:2, Insightful)
Your university needs to stop being so cheap with it's MATLAB licenses. There's no reason why you should be running MATLAB only on servers when The MathWorks is quite willing to license MATLAB on terms that allow it to be installed on any student's laptop, with the only server necessary being the license server.
Requires a certain software package... (Score:2, Insightful)
In a class of 150 (with smaller labs) IT issues can crop up weekly. Getting rid of specific software does nothing to offload the responsibility of the school to provide and maintain a functional learning environment. A computer lab setting creates generic "seats" so students can relocate rather than being tied to their own possibly malfunctioning laptop. Students can not afford to have hours of down-time, let alone days.
The licensing issue rears its head when marking because either assignments may be submitted in a software/version/format the school does not have because the student cannot export backwards to earlier versions or to a compatible file format.
Re:Printing (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, very easy to turn off your roommates/suitemates!
Re:Still Important (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep (Score:3, Insightful)
Where I work (university department) we aren't getting rid of our labs, despite the budget cuts. We really couldn't even if we wanted to. In no small part this is because of software. We have a number of classes that use software that is licensed only for university systems. Sometimes it is licensed only for a select few systems in our department. Thus we can't say "Just use your own computer." We have to provide systems. I suppose in theory it could be terminal server computers or the like, but I don't know that would end up being any cheaper, it takes a fairly large and expensive server to support multiple people running an intense application.
At any rate I can see universities cutting back on labs, but I don't think they are going away any time soon. At least not where I work.
a bit premature to declare death... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I wonder if the economy will change that back.. (Score:1, Insightful)
Yeah, no, you're full of shit. LaTeX doesn't work on pieces of paper, and you don't become proficient with it from using it only when you trudge over to the computer lab (if it's even installed, there are some truly heathen institutions out there). For anyone whose field involves programming this effect is amplified, as the same is true of whatever programming languages they'll be using.
Re:Printing (Score:2, Insightful)
Instead of uploading a paper to a printer, why not email it directly to your professor? If they feel the need to have a printed copy, let them print it.
Re:Still Important (Score:1, Insightful)
most any program you are required to install for a class is available for free or at a highly discounted price
A highly discounted price for some of the applications that the GP was talk about can be $80 - $110, or more. Times 5 or 10 or 15 different programs, depending upon your field of study.
A hundred dollars here, a hundred dollars there, pretty soon you're talking real money (at least for a student already in debt).
Re:Printing (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sure at some point, Iphones will replace laptops.
Not for computer science students. For one thing, it's a pain for someone to switch from 80 WPM touch typing to tapping out long text on an iPod Touch's screen. For another, Apple's SDK agreement reportedly doesn't allow developers to put a compiler or interpreter in an app.
Re:Not always going to work (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, it's socio-economic issues, which are often glossed over here on /. because simply put, a goodly number of slashdotters grew up pretty affluent.
They also don't realize that scholarships and grants haven't kept up with inflation so there's fewer lower income students in post-secondary education than there was even 20 years ago. There's more student owned computers because more students can afford them because there are fewer "lower class" students who can't around
Re:Printing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Printing (Score:5, Insightful)
And personal computers are all different. How do your require every student to own the necessary hardware and software for engineering classes (which need more than just a copy of Word and Excel)? Do you require all class labs to use Vista, or allow professors some leeway? What about getting cheaper licensing of expensive software on a few shared computers instead of requiring every student in the class to buy one? What if a student's computer breaks down halfway through the course? What if a student can't afford a computer, or afford one powerful enough for the lab requirements?
Re:Still Important (Score:3, Insightful)
In terms of software, many schools just buy blanket licenses for common software like Mathematica. You pay your media fee and run the software. But as mentioned above, even having the software does not mean the computer will run it well. I sometimes would write the process on machine and run on another. I suspect that most students do have a laptop, but that laptop is not the only computing resource they need.
Re:Printing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Still Important (Score:1, Insightful)
The issue isn't necessarily, the money, but rather the fact that it seems silly to spend a $100 on a piece of software that you may end up using only for that one class. Especially if you are already purchasing one or two textbooks, you may end up spending close to $300 when it is all said and done. Not to mention that many programs in EE programs cost much more than $100, and it isn't practical for every student to purchase a copy.
All that aside, my suspicion is that the article was referring more to doing away with computer labs that are frequently used for simple web browsing and word processing, and perhaps spreadsheets. These implications wouldn't apply in this case.
That being said, doing away completely with computer labs seems silly. Especially since any well designed university computer system should mean that it isn't that hard to monitor usage. Therefore, it shouldn't be that difficult to calculate your average lab usage and to adjust the number of computers available accordingly. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
Printing, as other people have raised, is a non-issue either way. Network printing is easy to setup and that is a problem that is easily solved. Laser printers are cheap nowadays anyway and likely result in a lower cost per page than a UNI computer lab would charge anyway (and saves a trip over to the lab at 3:00 in the morning when an assignment is finished).
Re:Printing (Score:2, Insightful)
I used to help in hiring people where I work. Those fresh out of college who never worked before are always less capable than people the same age who finished high school and then worked in any job. The former are locked into the "follow directions" mentality and expect everything provided to them on a silver platter due to so many years of being in classrooms. They literally cannot think. The latter know how to think for themselves.
Jobs for students (Score:2, Insightful)
In our university, the computer lab division consist of 200+ student employees, working an average of 15 hours per week. In order for a university to eligible for Federal Work-Study funds, there must be at least a certain percentage of students working on campus.
That is how we pay for our tuition, without the problem (especially scheduling and commuting problem) associated with an off-campus job.
Re:Printing (Score:5, Insightful)
As to "if they can't afford it", then how are they going to afford the tuiction, lab kits and everything else they need to buy?
That doesn't make sense - it's equivalent to saying "if you can afford a $10000 car, you can afford a $30000 car".
Some students have a very hard time getting the money together for college as it is, without increasing the amount of money required by another couple of grand. Not everyone is middle and upper class, you know.
Re:Printing (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, consider that the labs you mention would be over flowing if students didn't have their own computers. The number of hours required has gone up since the 90s. I was a TA two years ago when I was still in grad school. The computer hours spent on one EE lab alone were averaging 10 hours per week by the students.
Laptops are cheap and so are you (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you going to buy me a Wifi modem for my laptop, Mr. Silver Spoon?
No. You can do it yourself for the back breaking price of $10 [pricewatch.com]. Never mind that even the cheapest laptops [pricewatch.com] have wifi built in these days so the wifi adaptor would likely be redundant.
For that matter, are you going to buy me a laptop?
Nope. You'll have to do what I did and take out school loans to buy one. Then you pay for it once you are out of college and gainfully employed. If the extra $300 to buy a low end laptop is going to break you, perhaps you need to reconsider your college financing options.
All I could afford was a minimal desktop PC for $300.
Bullshit. Either you're lying or you didn't look hard enough. If you are that strapped for cash you could even have gotten something used or second hand. Even a brand new laptop can be had for under $300 [pricewatch.com] these days.
You see not everyone is rich, or drives themselves deep-into-credit debt to buy these types of toys.
A laptop isn't a "toy" anymore and you don't have to be rich to own one. $300 isn't going to bankrupt you or if it does you were already near bankruptcy for other reasons.
What about the students working in the labs? (Score:2, Insightful)