Go For a Masters, Or Not? 834
mx12 writes "I'm currently an undergrad in computer engineering and have been thinking about getting my masters. I have a year left in school. Most of my professors seem to think that getting a masters is a great idea, but I wanted to hear from people out in the working world. Is a masters in computer engineering better than two years of experience at a company?"
Do Both (Score:5, Informative)
I ended up getting employed full time right out of college. I accumulated 4 years of good experience, at which point I decided to go back to school part time.
The great thing about this is that if you can find an employer to help you pay for your higher education, that sweetens the deal. The downside is that your work obligations always come first, no matter what, especially if the company is paying. This is especially true if the job requires travel.
I can tell you working full-time and going to school part-time is not easy, especially if you have a family like I do. But it's definitely doable if you are dedicated and have a wife who is willing to put up with it for the next 2-3 years. Just don't count on much of a social life.
Experience paper (Score:3, Informative)
If you can get a job do so, if you can't (because of the "current economic climate") get a masters. But whilst you are doing your masters, keep looking for a job.
Given the choice between two candidates for a job: candidate A has 2 years experience doing the job they are going for, candidate B has zero experience of the job they are going for but has a piece of paper that says they have a masters, which would you choose? The guy that can do the job from day 1 and has a proven track record, or the guy that will need hand holding for 6 months to get him up to speed?
There's no experience like work experience (Score:3, Informative)
Two years of work experience will do more for you in the long run. Plus, you could always take the masters at some later point in time.
Also, if you're up to it, there's plenty of colleges that'd let you do your MBA on a part-time basis, or at least schedule your classes around your work requirements.
Back when I was doing my Bachelor's degree (full-time course), I also had a regular 40-hour-per-week day job, and was also raising a baby daughter at the same time.
Two words: time management.
Look at a part-time masters (Score:4, Informative)
Most young professionals work on a masters part-time. A good employer will pay the fees.
Re:Phd or don't bother (Score:3, Informative)
Computer Engineering != CS. Computer engineering is a part of EE. Here's a single example of the price difference you can see on your first job: A friend of mine and I interviewed at the same company for similar positions. He was finishing his BS in EE and I was finishing my MS in EE. My offer was 18k more than his and was for a higher-level engineering classification. Given that the company average for raises was 3.5%, he would have been making around 4.5k more than when he started in 2 years with the company and wouldn't have been bumped up to engineer 2. Or he could have spent two years to get his MS, made 18k more, and started at the "engineer 2" level. He chose to get his MS.
Most places I looked treated a MS like a BS + 3 years experience. They stated this on the job postings. But my market/industry may be different than others.
Here are some reasons to do your MS now instead of later:
1.) I would have a hard time going back to school after a long break. When you get a job, sure you're at your office for 40 hours a week but you don't have homework, class projects, or finals. Your free time is your time. Some days I like coming home, shutting down my EE side, and playing with my son. And you don't know what will happen during your break - will you get married, buy a house, or have a kid? Each one of those things is a major drain on time, energy, and money.
2.) You like your field and want to learn. There's nothing wrong with expanding your skills.
3.) You don't want to completely enter adulthood yet. Grad school is a nice way to postpone real responsibilities.
But, DO NOT DO A CLASSWORK ONLY MS. If you don't have a research project that ends in a thesis, I will put your resume on the same stack as those who only have a BS. That's the biggest thing. If you can't handle the research, just get a job. Non-thesis MS degrees are for people who are working while getting their degree. If you're young and just going to school, there's no excuse for not doing research. Getting on a funded project can be hard, though.
Immigration Benefits... (Score:4, Informative)
While it might not be a consideration now, your formal education can have a big bearing on your future immigration opportunities. For example the UK now requires anyone applying for a High Skilled Visa to have an equivilant of a UK Master's degree, irrespective of your field.
Re:Work Experience (Score:5, Informative)
The OP should be getting relevant work experience while working on a masters.
A 25 yr old colleague will be expected to have about 4 years of work experience in the field. Whether they will be expected also to have a masters depends on the position. A programmer probably doesn't need a masters, but for a more responsible job, you'll need a lot of work experience to compensate for the lack of one.
Re:Work Experience (Score:5, Informative)
Masters isn't going to increase your starting pay grade or get you a job easier, work experience is going to do that. You need work experience now.
BUT here's the thing. When you're 10+ years into your job, suddenly that masters means *everything*. Expect to start hitting some barriers, like maximum pay-grade. You really need to do both, and you need to make sure you get work experience before you graduate AND make sure you get your Masters while you still can manage it.
My father is a really talented guy. But he's 50 now with a Bachelor's and is passed up on every promotion and pay raise. He's already at the top of the metrics for pay and title, he literally can't go any higher because of corporate policy.
Re:Work Experience (Score:5, Informative)
Nope, it's really not.
I'm afraid that the GP is right. Whilst a degree is a foot in the door, you should only do a masters if you want to. It's not going to get you more money or the ability to skip past others.
Being intelligent, personable and demonstrating knowledge will win out every time, and in general the employment reflects that much better.
Re:Go for masters (Score:3, Informative)
Actually that's not true. In 4 years who will care what you studied? Education becomes increasingly irrelevant once employers have hard data about how good you actually are at the job. It helps for the first year, tops. Beyond that its only use is if it makes you better at the job, and that's far from guaranteed.
Re:Work Experience (Score:5, Informative)
He's not an IT grad. He's a Comp.E.
for the love of god, slashdot, stop confusing engineers with sysadmins.
Who's paying? (Score:4, Informative)
If you have to fund it yourself, how do you know anybody wants the result?
If someone will fund you to do it, a third party outside the University thinks it is a good idea and worth something to them.
It's like MBAs: if you have to pay for it yourself, you're probably not MBA material. If your company wants you to do it, somebody thinks you are.
CE != IT, you moron! (Score:2, Informative)
IT may or may not be expendable. However, there is a big difference between Computer Engineering and IT....
Computer Engineers actually understand (and often use!) basic Calculus... But those in IT can tell you how actually to deploy security policies across a network. Other than being two professions centered around computing, they have little in common.
Equating the two is like equating a professional chef to someone who flips burgers. Yes, they both deal with food, but there are major differences...
Re:Work Experience (Score:5, Informative)
And the way to do this is look for co-op or internship work while doing your undergrad and Master's. Then you end up with work experience and academic credentials on your resume.
Alternatively, after you get your bachelor's and get a job see if your company will pay for your master's. Many companies will do "tuition reimbursement" as long as its a relevant degree field and you make good grades. Its a lot of work but trust me, its worth it, and you should get it done now before you get married and have kids.
Re:Work Experience (Score:5, Informative)
In how many companies does HR choose the IT staff?
Not choose, but as I understand it, in the company I work with the resumes would be filtered through HR first and then be passed on to the IT department.
From a Random Hiring Manager (Score:2, Informative)
I've hired 40+ engineers over the last 4 years, and here's my take on a Masters degree.
Best option: combined 5-year Bachelor's + Master's program. You get more technical depth and a Master's on your resume for very little additional money. Your starting pay will be higher, and you can expect to break even in 3 years.
Next best option: 2 year Master's program at a top 5 or top 10 school in your field of interest. If it is not a top ranked program, or you're not changing your field of study (e.g. EE to CS or CS to Robotics) it's not worth the money.
Otherwise, get a job and work on your Masters part-time. Either negotiate an accelerated career track while you're working on it, negotiate a pay increase after you get it, or switch jobs for more pay / more relevance to your new field of study afterward.
-- Hiten
Re:Work Experience (Score:5, Informative)
Your area needs to modernise it's teaching requirements.
Where I am, in a effort to get "highly qualified"* teachers the state allows them to get an MA in education while teaching simply by taking 5 classes, 2-3 of which are free, and the the rest very affordable in-state. The program is not too widely publicised, as the idea is that qualified individuals thinking about teaching will find it, but the people who simply "can't do" are not constantly having it advertised to them.
If someone values time off teaching is a job with fantastic pay (try getting anything reasonable at a traditional job with a 190 day work year. With 4 weeks of vacation mine is still over 230).
As a competent person
* term used by the state, it is defined as 30+ credits in a subject area.
In my experience (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Work Experience (Score:4, Informative)
I'm 34. I've been in IT for 14 years. I have not yet hit my pay grade ceiling, though I'm getting close.
I'm not worried. At my current pay grade in 4 more years my wife and I will have no more debt except our house. I'll have pleanty of cash to go back to school and get that masters at that point. Based on my collection of certifications, many of the courses i'll need I can automatically exempt out of, many more I can take 1 test and pass the class, and several others my nearly 20 years of business expereince will expempt me out of. This assumes I'll actually take some classes...
Universities are typically more interested in simply getting your tuition, and if you qualify, and are above 30 years old, they'll typically be more than willing to take your money and still sell your seat in the class to another applicant. Universities generally don;t like putting highly expereinced business people in classrooms where their woried the student actually trumps the professor in knowledge. Many professors who recognize this where the university doesn't will simply give you the 4.0 for the promise you don't show up to class... Some universities will simply give you a masters in BA simply for having worked in management that long (and for a generous donation to the university of $30-50K).
Get your masters later, get the money now. Keep in mind, it;s not just the pay level now, it;s also that much more interest you won't be paying down later...
Re:Work Experience (Score:1, Informative)
First screening is always done by HR, unless a company is small or has very few candidates for the job.
What you are saying isn't untrue. It's just it isn't much worth if you can't jump over the first hurdle.
It is all up to you (Score:1, Informative)
Since you have not told us what it is your really like we cannot give you advice that is appropriate to your likes and needs. With that said here is some general advice which is worth exactly what you have paid for it.
I have made 6 figures for more than half of my career, have no degree at all, am in and have been in management (line and executive) and am a hiring manager. I have also worked for majors like IBM/ATT and minors so small you have never heard of them.
1. I strongly suggest you finish your undergraduate degree. I do not have mine and have had to fight much harder than those around me to get where I am. I will hire someone without a degree but they have to work very hard to prove themselves to me and/or need to have been in the military.
2. Graduate degrees hold no weight in in initial levels of hiring unless you are at a very large company. For example at IBM if you had a graduate degree in anything they would hire you. At my current company it gets you no points. So your mileage will vary according to the job and where you are looking.
3. If you would like to eventually be in management get a graduate level business degree. This will put you on track faster than any other. Passably an International business degree. Or get your law degree pass the bar and you can write your ticket to guaranteed employment starting 20 to 30k over your peers...
4. If you want to stay technical (this will eventually limit your income potential but you can still make a very good living [AKA about 200k right now]) then do the graduate degree in your technical field.
5. The economy is not that great right now so if you can afford to stay in school do. And when the economy picks up people like me will be looking to hire you.
6. No matter what you do get some experience in your field. This will get you your first job faster than anything else you can do. Join a team creating some open source software and write some code in a team environment. And yes even if you have no interest in coding do it.
Most of all have fin and good luck!
Re:Work Experience (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Work Experience (Score:5, Informative)
And from what I understand about the Ed.D. degree, is that it has less rigorous requirements than a PhD; for example, many don't even have a foreign language requirement.
And undergraduate education majors seem to perform very poorly in standardized tests (you would think majoring in education would make you especially effective at testing.) For example, here are GRE results by intended major. [ncsu.edu] There is no excuse for someone who spent their undergraduate career presumably reading and writing to be outperformed significantly by chemists and engineers in verbal reasoning. I'm not saying a 437 verbal on the GRE means you're a bad person, but it certainly does mean that you are not ready for graduate education in a social science.
Additionally, the research done in education is notorious for its lack of rigor, especially it's reluctance to use control groups.
Depends where you are (Score:1, Informative)
In the United States, a masters degree is roughly equivalent to a European bachelor's, because the education system in the US doesn't properly cover basic maths etc. at high school level, you will spend the first 1.5-2 years covering high-school type work.
If you live in Europe, you are probably employable with a bachelor's.
Re:Work Experience (Score:3, Informative)
Because perhaps the work is interesting? The USPS uses extensive computer vision tech for autorouting of mail. USGS uses computers throughout their work for cartography, remote sensing, etc. Defense departments, especially the national laboratories, consume the latest supercomputers, storage systems, and visualization tech.
But I understand if your view of government work is purely rubber-stamping papers underneath a buzzing flourescent light.
Having worked in DoD simulations, I can say that I'm unimpressed. The government is always willing to fork out for newer hardware, but as a software geek and can say that it felt like they were 5-10 years behind private industry.