99luftballon writes "Nearly 70 years after Station X (aka the Bletchley Park cryptanalysis unit) was set up, the surviving members are to be honored by the British government. Bletchley was one of the most important computing centers of its time and housed giants of the technology industry (as it was) like Tommy Flowers, who built Colossus, and Dr. Alan Turing. I was lucky enough to meet one of the staff at the site 11 years ago, and she was very bitter that their work was never recognized, and that they were bound by the Official Secrets Act and couldn't talk about it. It's just a shame that so few of the staff are still alive to receive the award."
What the British government did, by covering up and hiding the work these people did, is an affront to the very concept of a free society.
But what's wrong with the people involved that they can't do it for anything more than love of their country? Barring that, why aren't they satisfied with the money they received for it?
On the flipside, by covering up the work, one could argue that they kept their society more free from the rule of foreign regimes by securing vital technology.
I doubt if the usefulness of such secrecy ever came into it. The British government has an extensive record for secretiveness, largely because they have a long record of underhand dealings with all parts of the world, including their own populace.
They probably kept Bletchley Park's role (subsequently to the War) under wraps out of nothing more than sheer habit.
Revelation of a capability will immediately cause adversaries to adapt themselves to minimize exposure to your areas of expertise. That can be instant or point research and be more gradual. Either way, even suggestions of your present capabilities are priceless for an adversary's minimization of risk. That's why intelligence methods are kept secret. A lot of people simply do not get this connection.
That's absolutely true. But it was possible for the people of Bletchley Park to be recognized for their achievements without giving up the technical details of what they did--especially when you consider that, by the 1970s, it was already common knowledge everywhere else in the world but Great Britain.
I frequently get pissed off by the shenanigans of my own government (U.S.) but when it comes to unnecessary secrecy and invasion of privacy, the British government has about the worst record in the (nominally)
I'm sure they enjoyed what they did, but if you have given most of your life to a cause, then you'll want some form of recognition for it. These people received no such public recognition, while many people in similar fields have, so it is understandable that they are upset by the lack of recognition.
.
As for the British Government hiding this work, they likely believed that by revealing it at the time they were endangering the staff of the facillity, as well as the country as a whole.
This was not ordinary work. It was extraordinary work, with some of the most brilliant minds of the time and with amazing mathematical and scientific developments worth of Nobel Prizes.
A lack of recognition might have also helped so many of them work quietly in the "BBC World Service" for decades after the war.
"It was thanks to Ultra that we won the war."
-Winston Churchill, to King George VI
I must disagree with the notion that the work at Bletchley Park was not done at peril to those involved. No, the codebreakers didn't die in the mud taking back pieces of Europe, but what they did was so important that when they went to work, they too went to battle. Secrecy was their armor. If Nazi Germany had truly known what was going on at Bletchley Park, they would have sent every plane in the Luftwaffe to turn it into a crater. Honoring those that served there does not diminish the honors bestowed on those who died on battlefields.
Actually what the germans would have done instead of trying to bomb bletchley (which they likely could have done using the knickebein , X-beam or Y-beam bombing system depending on date) was to change their encryption systems to something more secure.
They made a number of errors in how thy used the Enigma (stereotypical messages, repetition of the message key etc.) which they could have corrected sooner had they known that the British (and notably the poles even before the war) had broken the Enigma.
For instance the naval version of the Enigma was much harder to break than the standard army version as German marine was much more conscious about the above pitfalls and had a more complex Enigma.
To protect whatever source they would have had that the British did their code-breaking at bletchley.
The British had the same considerations when they had decrypted material; 'how much of it can we use before the Germans get the idea that we have broken their encryption'. Some times U-boats or supply ships was left alone even after their exact position was known in order to protect the fact that Enigma was broken.
Yes, but had they honored those at Bletchley Park, perhap Alan Turing would not have suicided. (Some say he was assassinated) At least he would have been viewed as a hero for what he (and others) achieved for the Allies.
PS: Don't mention the war, I did once but I think I got away with it!
Almost all of the staff were draftees, doing their military service at the camp. I never heard anyone complain about the money - it was what people did in war time. Indeed Tommy Flowers spent more than the £1,000 he received to build Colossus. But with the war won they couldn't talk about what they had done until the 1980s and their extraordinary contribution has never been officially recognised.
Let's start with an apology to Alan Turing [jgc.org] and a public recognition for the grave injustice dealt to him for being homosexual, despite his enormous service to his country, the allies, philosophy, and, of course, computer science.
First, he worked for the government as a code breaker. While he has not received official recognition until now, it must be remembered that this was a top-secret operation and there was always the possibility that the operation would never be recognized.
Second, he was gay. Like other gays in Britain at that time, he was persecuted and prosecuted.
Now if you want to say that he should be recognized above and beyond his workmates at Bletchley because he was also gay, that simply doe
If you want to say he should be apologized to more than any other persecuted gay person because he was somehow more useful to the government than the others, that also doesn't make any sense.
It does, though. I don't think anyone would suggest that the UK government apologize to Turing and Turing alone, but singling him out as a symbol of the terrible things done to homosexuals at the time isn't unfair. His torture and eventual suicide have become symbolic for what hideously repressive things were done to homosexuals back then, at least to the small percentage of people who know and care of such things.
Remember, society is all about symbolism and people care about symbolic gestures very much. Alan Turing wouldn't be the first person to be made into a symbol of repression. Rosa Parks wasn't the first black woman told to move to the front of the bus, but it wasn't unfair to single her out and give her a state funeral. Nelson Mandela wasn't the only black leader imprisoned in South Africa, but he was the symbol of apartheid and elected to be president in 1994. Muhammad Ali wasn't the only draft dodger to be stripped of his livelihood and publicly ridiculed, but his was the case that went to the US Supreme Court.
If you want to say he should be apologized to more than any other persecuted gay person because he was somehow more useful to the government than the others, that also doesn't make any sense.
It makes sense to me. Here's another analogy: have you heard of the recent case where a Moslem woman was suing some guy in a German court, the guy starts stabbing her, her husband wades in to stop him, then a guard shows up and shoots the husband? Don't you think the husband deserves more of an apology tha
Surely he does. He deserves two apologies. Unfortunately, one of them, namely the persecution for homosexuality is simply not possible. To apologize to him specifically for that, while not doing the same for all the others is tantamount to singling him out because he was also a codebreaker.
Apologizing for failing to recognize his code-breaking work is possible. There are a sufficiently small number of them (all with identities known to the Crown (i.e. in the records)) that apologizing to all of them is viab
According to someone I knew who worked on Colossus with Turing and Flowers, Turing was attracted to teenage boys, and didn't feel good about it. Meanwhile the British Government kept sending him to Boys Schools to "inspire the young men". This was, so I was told, what drove him to suicide - like forcing a reformed junkie to work in a pharmacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia [wikipedia.org] describes people "indicating sexual preference for mid-to-late adolescents", and is different from paedophilia, which is a preference for pre-pubescents.
So why did he wait until years after the war and until he was being actively persecuted for his homosexuality with forced chemical castration and all that? If being sent to boys' schools was bothering him then you'd think he'd be at his highest risk for suicide while it was happening. If I were in his shoes, I would have heaved a sigh of relief and moved on once the government stopped sending me round to the boys' schools.
And wasn't his involvement at Bletchley Park extraordinarily classified, seeing as ho
Alan Turing was well known for his genius both before and after Bletchley, especially for his work on computation and biological mathematics. It was at one of his guest lectures at a school where he made his famous remark "the brain is much like a bowl of cold porridge". Although the exact nature of his wartime work was secret, it was no secret that he was Britain's answer to Einstein and Von Neumann, and was widely paraded as an example of British excellence at a time when the country was still ravaged b
To everybody in this thread: can we please stop putting people in boxes and categorise them? Everybody is an individual and what does it matter if someone like the color blue, red, green, boy or girls? Stop calling someone straight and gay. You're a person who just happens to be attracted to people of your own gender, the oppositye gender, both or neither. It is the year 2009 and by now one would expect people to be a little bit wiser, especialy on places like/..
Bitter? About not receiving public recognition over classified work?
The contribution of those who worked at Bletchley Park is immeasurable, both literally and figuratively. Anyone who is even remotely familiar with the history of cryptography or the Second World War knows of Bletchley Park.
But bitter about not having received official recognition because of the rules that were in place to maintain secrecy? Yeah, the secrecy was maintained long after it was necessary and had well passed into public knowledge, but BITTER?
I'm sorry, but no. There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of individuals whose contributions toward a free society will never be known because of the secrecy in which they had to conduct their duties. If we include those who died in war and whose bodies or for that matter, identities were never recovered, that number would probably reach into the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
And this lady is bitter that she hasn't received recognition from the British government?
"Not recognizing", goodness. Try literally castrating: go look up what happened to Alan Turing. It's important to remember of that era that the Nazis weren't the only ones locking up people for being different: the British treatment of homosexualy and the American treatment of Japanese-Americans of that time simply reflect other nation's willingness to harass and destroy those minority groups they pick as feared scapegoats.
And 20, 30, even 50 years later, the people who helped win WWII for the allies in suc
The secrecy was maintained after the war for so long for one reason and one reason only. Namely that the USA and UK were using the same techniques to read the secret messages of a number of countries and if it became known that the USA and UK had this technology, these countries would replace their codes with something a LOT more secure.
The secrecy was maintained after the war for so long for one reason and one reason only. Namely that the USA and UK were using the same techniques to read the secret messages of a number of countries and if it became known that the USA and UK had this technology, these countries would replace their codes with something a LOT more secure.
and you're saying that is a bad thing?
To the US and UK, losing the ability to break the codes of others sure seems like a bad thing.
She was a little bitter, but the main reason was that for 40+ years she wasn't even allowed to tell her family or husband what she had done, which caused some unpleasantness for her among people who assumed she'd slacked off during the war. Then when she could no-one understood the significance of what she had taken part in.
My Aunt worked at Bletchley Park. She was a Bombe Operator. In her case - "Bitter" is certainly the wrong word.
At the time she knew a fair bit about what she, personally, was doing. She didn't understand all the details, but she knew she was cracking messages relating to the Battle of the Atlantic - and that it was damned important. As an intelligent woman she also knew and accepted why the secrecy was important - both at the time and afterwards. She never discussed it at the time with anyone.
My Grandfather was bright enough to work out that my Aunt had done "something a bit special" in the war - and was very frustrated that he had no idea at all what it was and that she refused to discuss it. He died in 1969. IIRC "The Ultra Secret" was published about 5 years later. That was the moment when the restrictions were relaxed - and she could tell the rest of the family where she had been during the war.
My Aunt is bitter about what happened to Alan Turing. It was wrong "of itself" and it was also wrong that this country seemed to forget exactly how much was owed Dr Turing. She regards it as a tragedy and a waste. I agree.
My late Father was one of those who fought in "The Forgotten War" in Burma. One of many horrible parts to WW2. He gained "The Burma Star". Something he wore with great pride and which recorded what he had been a part of. My Aunt will be pleased to finally have something similar.
I think that it is just to recognise the achievements of those who worked at Bletchley Park in the same way - and that it probably could and should have happened sooner - perhaps during the 1970s.
by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday July 11, @12:08AM (#28657821)
Get your facts straight. At a Warsaw conference on 25 July 1939 the Polish Cipher Bureau initiated the French and British into its Enigma-breaking techniques and technology, and provided complete "bomba" cracking machines. The bomba, or bomba kryptologiczna (Polish for "bomb" or "cryptologic bomb") was a special-purpose machine designed about October 1938 by Polish Cipher Bureau cryptologist Marian Rejewski to break German Enigma-machine ciphers. Colossus used to crack Enigma at Bletchley Park was based on Bomba technology. Harry Hinsley suggested in British Intelligence that the Poles decided to share their Enigma-breaking techniques and equipment with the French and British in July 1939 because they had encountered insuperable technical difficulties. Rejewski refuted this: "No, it was not [cryptologic] difficulties [...] that prompted us to work with the British and French, but only the deteriorating political situation. If we had had no difficulties at all we would still, or even the more so, have shared our achievements with our allies as our contribution to the struggle against Germany.". It's a shame to see Bletchley Park giving almost no credit to Polish Cipher Bureau, and claiming all the credit.
If you go to Bletchley Park the tour guides (some of whom served there during the war) are very clear about crediting all contributions where due.
One of the places the tour stops at is the memorial to the Polish code breakers and the tour guides clearly explain the Polish connection. They have an annual Polish day at the Park - celebrated two weeks ago, photos here [bletchleypark.org.uk]. Bletchley Park folks recognise the Polish contribution and make their visitors aware of this.
Actually the Colossus was not used on the Enigma cipher, but instead on the Lorenz-cipher (somewhat similar to Enigma, but more complex) which was used by the german high command and the Nazi-top exclusively.
The British build copies of the polish bombes, and after the Germans changed the day-key scheme, Turing designed a new version of the bombes which was capable to deal with that (once a proper 'crib' was found, often based on German wether reports which tended to be more stereotypical)
These people deserve recognition just for the fact they served their country for so many years.
These days, many people would be tempted to post their activities to the web and be interviewed by the New York Times, who in turn would be thrilled to get the scoop, at the expense of national security. The enemies of freedom know how to abuse ours...
It was not your Spitfire pilots or your observer crews. It was them who broke the enigma and thus made sure the crap the US sent over arrived in one piece.
I think Churchill's speech about how so many have to thank so few fits far better here. So why no recognition for them 'til now.
For those who still survive it would be cool if they could document their time and Bletchley park, and then put under seal until such time the government accepts those experiences to go public. For me, if this is not done we lose an important part of our history and insight into what happened then. I would hope that after 60 years the government would be willing to allow this information to go public.
Everyone who participates in defending our freedoms deserves recognition, but the sad thing is that when it is not an armed force we are often unaware who did their part. Even if some of these figures seem do be doing very little, the resulting actions can be very important.
Only for the living? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Only for the living? (Score:5, Funny)
It creeps the Queen out when she has to pin something onto a corpse.
Parent
Re:Only for the living? (Score:5, Funny)
It creeps the Queen out when she has to pin something onto a corpse.
That's why Philip has to put his own medals on in the morning.
Parent
Their value system is out of whack (Score:3, Insightful)
What the British government did, by covering up and hiding the work these people did, is an affront to the very concept of a free society.
But what's wrong with the people involved that they can't do it for anything more than love of their country? Barring that, why aren't they satisfied with the money they received for it?
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
On the flipside, by covering up the work, one could argue that they kept their society more free from the rule of foreign regimes by securing vital technology.
But, for how many years is it useful to do this?
Re:Their value system is out of whack (Score:5, Interesting)
They probably kept Bletchley Park's role (subsequently to the War) under wraps out of nothing more than sheer habit.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Think about it.
Revelation of a capability will immediately cause adversaries to adapt themselves to minimize exposure to your areas of expertise. That can be instant or point research and be more gradual. Either way, even suggestions of your present capabilities are priceless for an adversary's minimization of risk. That's why intelligence methods are kept secret. A lot of people simply do not get this connection.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's absolutely true. But it was possible for the people of Bletchley Park to be recognized for their achievements without giving up the technical details of what they did--especially when you consider that, by the 1970s, it was already common knowledge everywhere else in the world but Great Britain.
I frequently get pissed off by the shenanigans of my own government (U.S.) but when it comes to unnecessary secrecy and invasion of privacy, the British government has about the worst record in the (nominally)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sure they enjoyed what they did, but if you have given most of your life to a cause, then you'll want some form of recognition for it. These people received no such public recognition, while many people in similar fields have, so it is understandable that they are upset by the lack of recognition.
.
As for the British Government hiding this work, they likely believed that by revealing it at the time they were endangering the staff of the facillity, as well as the country as a whole.
Re:Their value system is out of whack (Score:5, Insightful)
This was not ordinary work. It was extraordinary work, with some of the most brilliant minds of the time and with amazing mathematical and scientific developments worth of Nobel Prizes.
A lack of recognition might have also helped so many of them work quietly in the "BBC World Service" for decades after the war.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Their value system is out of whack (Score:5, Insightful)
I must disagree with the notion that the work at Bletchley Park was not done at peril to those involved. No, the codebreakers didn't die in the mud taking back pieces of Europe, but what they did was so important that when they went to work, they too went to battle. Secrecy was their armor. If Nazi Germany had truly known what was going on at Bletchley Park, they would have sent every plane in the Luftwaffe to turn it into a crater. Honoring those that served there does not diminish the honors bestowed on those who died on battlefields.
Parent
Re:Their value system is out of whack (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually what the germans would have done instead of trying to bomb bletchley (which they likely could have done using the knickebein , X-beam or Y-beam bombing system depending on date) was to change their encryption systems to something more secure.
They made a number of errors in how thy used the Enigma (stereotypical messages, repetition of the message key etc.) which they could have corrected sooner had they known that the British (and notably the poles even before the war) had broken the Enigma.
For instance the naval version of the Enigma was much harder to break than the standard army version as German marine was much more conscious about the above pitfalls and had a more complex Enigma.
Yours Yazeran
Plan: to go to mars with a hammer
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
To protect whatever source they would have had that the British did their code-breaking at bletchley.
The British had the same considerations when they had decrypted material; 'how much of it can we use before the Germans get the idea that we have broken their encryption'. Some times U-boats or supply ships was left alone even after their exact position was known in order to protect the fact that Enigma was broken.
Yours Yazeran
Plan: To go to Mars one day with a hammer
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
PS: Don't mention the war, I did once but I think I got away with it!
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2792 (Score:2)
amazon + Bletchley = 2791
It registers fine.
isc 0x009811009211521 AK
Let's Start With an Apology (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
FTA, "like Tommy Flowers, who built Colossus, and Dr. Alan Turing"
I believe we only have Mr. Flowers to blame. If he'd built Mr. Turing as just a regular heterosexual, he would've been a lot better off!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The two things are separate.
First, he worked for the government as a code breaker. While he has not received official recognition until now, it must be remembered that this was a top-secret operation and there was always the possibility that the operation would never be recognized.
Second, he was gay. Like other gays in Britain at that time, he was persecuted and prosecuted.
Now if you want to say that he should be recognized above and beyond his workmates at Bletchley because he was also gay, that simply doe
Re:Let's Start With an Apology (Score:5, Insightful)
It does, though. I don't think anyone would suggest that the UK government apologize to Turing and Turing alone, but singling him out as a symbol of the terrible things done to homosexuals at the time isn't unfair. His torture and eventual suicide have become symbolic for what hideously repressive things were done to homosexuals back then, at least to the small percentage of people who know and care of such things.
Remember, society is all about symbolism and people care about symbolic gestures very much. Alan Turing wouldn't be the first person to be made into a symbol of repression. Rosa Parks wasn't the first black woman told to move to the front of the bus, but it wasn't unfair to single her out and give her a state funeral. Nelson Mandela wasn't the only black leader imprisoned in South Africa, but he was the symbol of apartheid and elected to be president in 1994. Muhammad Ali wasn't the only draft dodger to be stripped of his livelihood and publicly ridiculed, but his was the case that went to the US Supreme Court.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
BadAnalogyGuy:
It makes sense to me. Here's another analogy: have you heard of the recent case where a Moslem woman was suing some guy in a German court, the guy starts stabbing her, her husband wades in to stop him, then a guard shows up and shoots the husband? Don't you think the husband deserves more of an apology tha
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Surely he does. He deserves two apologies. Unfortunately, one of them, namely the persecution for homosexuality is simply not possible. To apologize to him specifically for that, while not doing the same for all the others is tantamount to singling him out because he was also a codebreaker.
Apologizing for failing to recognize his code-breaking work is possible. There are a sufficiently small number of them (all with identities known to the Crown (i.e. in the records)) that apologizing to all of them is viab
Re: (Score:2)
According to someone I knew who worked on Colossus with Turing and Flowers, Turing was attracted to teenage boys, and didn't feel good about it. Meanwhile the British Government kept sending him to Boys Schools to "inspire the young men". This was, so I was told, what drove him to suicide - like forcing a reformed junkie to work in a pharmacy.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Most teenagers are over the age of consent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia [wikipedia.org] describes people "indicating sexual preference for mid-to-late adolescents", and is different from paedophilia, which is a preference for pre-pubescents.
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And wasn't his involvement at Bletchley Park extraordinarily classified, seeing as ho
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Alan Turing was well known for his genius both before and after Bletchley, especially for his work on computation and biological mathematics. It was at one of his guest lectures at a school where he made his famous remark "the brain is much like a bowl of cold porridge". Although the exact nature of his wartime work was secret, it was no secret that he was Britain's answer to Einstein and Von Neumann, and was widely paraded as an example of British excellence at a time when the country was still ravaged b
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Why just him? Shouldn't all gays persecuted under those laws get an apology?
The singling of Turing out for special treatment is not my idea, it's apparently yours.
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Unprofessional (Score:5, Interesting)
Bitter? About not receiving public recognition over classified work?
The contribution of those who worked at Bletchley Park is immeasurable, both literally and figuratively. Anyone who is even remotely familiar with the history of cryptography or the Second World War knows of Bletchley Park.
But bitter about not having received official recognition because of the rules that were in place to maintain secrecy? Yeah, the secrecy was maintained long after it was necessary and had well passed into public knowledge, but BITTER?
I'm sorry, but no. There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of individuals whose contributions toward a free society will never be known because of the secrecy in which they had to conduct their duties. If we include those who died in war and whose bodies or for that matter, identities were never recovered, that number would probably reach into the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
And this lady is bitter that she hasn't received recognition from the British government?
Sorry, but color me a little unsympathetic.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"Not recognizing", goodness. Try literally castrating: go look up what happened to Alan Turing. It's important to remember of that era that the Nazis weren't the only ones locking up people for being different: the British treatment of homosexualy and the American treatment of Japanese-Americans of that time simply reflect other nation's willingness to harass and destroy those minority groups they pick as feared scapegoats.
And 20, 30, even 50 years later, the people who helped win WWII for the allies in suc
Re: (Score:2)
The secrecy was maintained after the war for so long for one reason and one reason only. Namely that the USA and UK were using the same techniques to read the secret messages of a number of countries and if it became known that the USA and UK had this technology, these countries would replace their codes with something a LOT more secure.
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There appears to be a perception that this work has stopped, it had not... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_(signals_intelligence) [wikipedia.org]
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The secrecy was maintained after the war for so long for one reason and one reason only. Namely that the USA and UK were using the same techniques to read the secret messages of a number of countries and if it became known that the USA and UK had this technology, these countries would replace their codes with something a LOT more secure.
and you're saying that is a bad thing?
To the US and UK, losing the ability to break the codes of others sure seems like a bad thing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Unprofessional (Score:5, Interesting)
My Aunt worked at Bletchley Park. She was a Bombe Operator. In her case - "Bitter" is certainly the wrong word.
At the time she knew a fair bit about what she, personally, was doing. She didn't understand all the details, but she knew she was cracking messages relating to the Battle of the Atlantic - and that it was damned important. As an intelligent woman she also knew and accepted why the secrecy was important - both at the time and afterwards. She never discussed it at the time with anyone.
My Grandfather was bright enough to work out that my Aunt had done "something a bit special" in the war - and was very frustrated that he had no idea at all what it was and that she refused to discuss it. He died in 1969. IIRC "The Ultra Secret" was published about 5 years later. That was the moment when the restrictions were relaxed - and she could tell the rest of the family where she had been during the war.
My Aunt is bitter about what happened to Alan Turing. It was wrong "of itself" and it was also wrong that this country seemed to forget exactly how much was owed Dr Turing. She regards it as a tragedy and a waste. I agree.
My late Father was one of those who fought in "The Forgotten War" in Burma. One of many horrible parts to WW2. He gained "The Burma Star". Something he wore with great pride and which recorded what he had been a part of. My Aunt will be pleased to finally have something similar.
I think that it is just to recognise the achievements of those who worked at Bletchley Park in the same way - and that it probably could and should have happened sooner - perhaps during the 1970s.
Parent
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Polish Cipher Bureau cracked Enigma (Score:5, Informative)
Get your facts straight. At a Warsaw conference on 25 July 1939 the Polish Cipher Bureau initiated the French and British into its Enigma-breaking techniques and technology, and provided complete "bomba" cracking machines. The bomba, or bomba kryptologiczna (Polish for "bomb" or "cryptologic bomb") was a special-purpose machine designed about October 1938 by Polish Cipher Bureau cryptologist Marian Rejewski to break German Enigma-machine ciphers. Colossus used to crack Enigma at Bletchley Park was based on Bomba technology. Harry Hinsley suggested in British Intelligence that the Poles decided to share their Enigma-breaking techniques and equipment with the French and British in July 1939 because they had encountered insuperable technical difficulties. Rejewski refuted this: "No, it was not [cryptologic] difficulties [...] that prompted us to work with the British and French, but only the deteriorating political situation. If we had had no difficulties at all we would still, or even the more so, have shared our achievements with our allies as our contribution to the struggle against Germany.". It's a shame to see Bletchley Park giving almost no credit to Polish Cipher Bureau, and claiming all the credit.
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Have you been to Bletchley Park? (Score:5, Informative)
If you go to Bletchley Park the tour guides (some of whom served there during the war) are very clear about crediting all contributions where due.
One of the places the tour stops at is the memorial to the Polish code breakers and the tour guides clearly explain the Polish connection. They have an annual Polish day at the Park - celebrated two weeks ago, photos here [bletchleypark.org.uk]. Bletchley Park folks recognise the Polish contribution and make their visitors aware of this.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually the Colossus was not used on the Enigma cipher, but instead on the Lorenz-cipher (somewhat similar to Enigma, but more complex) which was used by the german high command and the Nazi-top exclusively.
The British build copies of the polish bombes, and after the Germans changed the day-key scheme, Turing designed a new version of the bombes which was capable to deal with that (once a proper 'crib' was found, often based on German wether reports which tended to be more stereotypical)
Yours Yazeran
Plan:
Re: (Score:2)
If it happened today... (Score:2)
These people deserve recognition just for the fact they served their country for so many years.
These days, many people would be tempted to post their activities to the web and be interviewed by the New York Times, who in turn would be thrilled to get the scoop, at the expense of national security. The enemies of freedom know how to abuse ours...
These people won the war (Score:2)
It was not your Spitfire pilots or your observer crews. It was them who broke the enigma and thus made sure the crap the US sent over arrived in one piece.
I think Churchill's speech about how so many have to thank so few fits far better here. So why no recognition for them 'til now.
Way over due, if you ask me.
If they recognize you, only when they have to, (Score:2)
and do nothing, when they can (like when it's a secret anyway),
then you know that they are not doing that recognition spectacle for you to be known, but for them to be known.
Documenting their experiences (Score:3, Insightful)
For those who still survive it would be cool if they could document their time and Bletchley park, and then put under seal until such time the government accepts those experiences to go public. For me, if this is not done we lose an important part of our history and insight into what happened then. I would hope that after 60 years the government would be willing to allow this information to go public.
Everyone who participates in defending our freedoms deserves recognition, but the sad thing is that when it is not an armed force we are often unaware who did their part. Even if some of these figures seem do be doing very little, the resulting actions can be very important.
Re: (Score:2)
now who is bitter??