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Microsoft & Intel Get a Pass On Higher H-1B Fees 209

Posted by kdawson
from the mastercard-also-accepted dept.
theodp writes "Criticizing companies that outsource high-paying American jobs, Senator Charles Schumer described Indian IT company Infosys as a 'chop shop'. (Nine Indian companies accounted for 20,000 H-1B visas as of 2007. In 2008, Infosys held 4,500 of the visas; the number was down by a factor of 10 in 2009.) The comments came as the Senate scrambled to fund the $600M Mexican Border Security Bill by hiking application fees for H-1B and L-1 visas. The Senate measure increases H-1B visa fees by $2,000 per application on firms that have 50% or more of their employees on this visa. Schumer pointed out that the bill would not affect high-tech companies such as Intel or Microsoft 'that play by the rules and recruit workers in America,' although they are among the biggest beneficiaries of the H-1B program."
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Microsoft & Intel Get a Pass On Higher H-1B Fees

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  • by TheRealQuestor (1750940) on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:04AM (#33186078)
    why do the words Intel and Microsoft just not sound right sitting next to "Play by the rules"?
    • by Arimus (198136)

      In this instacne they do... does not help them to break these rules so they'll play by them.

      And apart from that its simple: =50% you do. So not exactly a hard rule (and a bit of work with HR, outsourcing/sub-contracting/contractors can help reduce you below 50% without doing any rule breaking; same as any tax - evasion of the tax would be illegal, avoidance isn't)

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by shriphani (1174497)
      Despite all the bad press they get, MS and Intel have very good hiring practices. They believe in hiring anyone who displays talent - regardless of nationality. They really don't have anything to gain by trying to game the H1B system. The shady stuff happens at smaller companies working on mostly insignificant stuff.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 09, 2010 @03:13AM (#33186340)

        Posting as an AC due to the high number of H1B's in my office. But they don't work for us. They work for the contracting company we hire. The contracting company will get the bad press, slightly increase the per hour fee and the big company will point out that they're hiring American and not mentioning that they're contracting a lot more jobs than they hire and the contractors are rarely (if ever) American.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        Intel?!? The same Intel that shipped most of their R&D jobs overseas because "they couldn't get enough qualified Americans" - that Intel?

        Uh huh. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

      • H1B visas get a bad reputation because Microsoft and Intel lobby congress to increase the yearly quotas on the premise that there aren't enough skill US workers to fill the positions. As part of their lobbying (aka bullying) they threaten to relocate outside the US unless they get what they want like an increase in the quota and exemption from the H1B fee hikes.

        Giving companies a free pass on the H1B application is violating everyone else's right to equal protection (ie 14th amendment). I know when I was i

        • If you read the article, neither Microsoft nor Intel are getting a free pass on anything. There's no free pass. The proportion of H1Bs at these companies isn't even close to the threshold beyond which it costs extra.

      • by nashv (1479253)
        I agree. My only confusion is that a Infosys with an equity of 6 billion plus USD and a revenue of 1.5 billion per annum isn't exactly a "small company working on mostly insignificant stuff".
    • They sound alright...I mean they probably wrote the rules.
  • by RAMMS+EIN (578166) on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:10AM (#33186106) Homepage Journal

    FTFS: ``The Senate measure increases H-1B visa fees by $2,000 per application on firms that have 50% or more of their employees on this visa.''

    And Microsoft and Intel evidently are below this 50% limit. As far as I can tell, this isn't Microsoft and Intel "getting a pass", as the title states. No company is being singled out here. It doesn't matter who you are, what matters if you have 50% or more of your employees on H-1B visa.

    • by mysidia (191772) on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:18AM (#33186156)

      Yeah... 50% total is also easy for big companies to avoid, by making sure to have plenty of employees performing non-skilled labor that count. They could actually aim to hire minimum-wage non-technical employees in advance in order to reduce the proportion of H1B workers. It could still be more cost-effective than hiring skilled labor from local applicants.

      They ought to require firms applying for H1Bs to report number of workers in various categories or types of work, and if you have 50% or more of your employees performing any particular type of work on H-1HB visa , then the higher app fees apply for workers in that category...

      So e.g. if >50% or your secretaries or H1B, or >50% of your support personnel are H1B, if >50% of your accountants/managers are H1B, or if >50% of your engineers are H1B....

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 09, 2010 @03:10AM (#33186336)

      FTFS: ``The Senate measure increases H-1B visa fees by $2,000 per application on firms that have 50% or more of their employees on this visa.''

      And Microsoft and Intel evidently are below this 50% limit. As far as I can tell, this isn't Microsoft and Intel "getting a pass", as the title states. No company is being singled out here. It doesn't matter who you are, what matters if you have 50% or more of your employees on H-1B visa.

      Every Infosys site I have been on has been 99% India citizen staffed. When they go back to their country for personal reason like marriage or death another one flies over and takes their place. Maybe 2% of US citizens is all I have ever seen in any department run by them.
      Talk about Cliques

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm a tax-savings bonus hunter. My job is to apply the formula.

      Take the number of foreign workers in the field, (A), and multiply it by minimum wage, (B), then multiply the result by a trivial arbitrary number of payable hours, (C). A times B times C equals X...

      If X is less than the cost of H1-B visas for A, we hire shills.

      Are there a lot of these kinds of loopholes?

      Oh, you wouldn't believe.

      ... Which... software company do you work for?

      A major one.

      • by Bigjeff5 (1143585)

        That's very funny, but apparently Fight Club is too old of a movie to reference any more.

        Sorry bro.

    • You are right (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Monday August 09, 2010 @03:23AM (#33186382)

      This is just spin to try and make MS look like the bad guys getting special treatment. The reality of the situation is that if companies hire a majority of American (meaning either citizen or resident alien) employees then they don't pay the extra fee. MS and Intel were noted in the article as tow companies that "play by the rules" and hire a majority of American workers, but they were not given special dispensation.

      My guess is the logic is twofold:

      1) It is to help protect American jobs and encourage companies to hire local. After all if it costs more to hire H-1B employees, then it is not as attractive a proposition.

      2) To derive the funding for the measure from a relevant source. The measure deals with immigration, so companies that bring in the most immigrants get to shoulder the burden. While it isn't a direct thing (since the bill is about southern border security) it is still related.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Jedi Alec (258881)

        This is just spin to try and make MS look like the bad guys getting special treatment.

        Posted by kdawson on Monday August 09, @02:02AM

        In other news: water is wet and the sky is blue. Film at 11.

    • by copponex (13876) on Monday August 09, 2010 @03:23AM (#33186384) Homepage

      Microsoft has 90,000 employees. Intel has 83,000 at least. Considering that there are around 100,000 H1B recipients, you could place nearly all of them at just these two companies and they wouldn't have to pay a dime for any applications, since it would be less than 50% of their employment.

      Trickle down tax policies favor monopolies, and anything that taxes a company based on allowed percentage is going to favor huge corporations. But that's entirely the point. Start a ten man company with six H1B recipients, and you're looking at 12,000 in taxes. Microsoft can hire 44,000 H1B recipients and not pay a dime for the application fee.

      Every company that hires people from outside the United States should be given zero incentives to do so. Otherwise they have no incentive to train an American for the same job, or to support public education measures so America can produce better workers.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        copponex wrote:

        Start a ten man company with six H1B recipients, and you're looking at 12,000 in taxes. Microsoft can hire 44,000 H1B recipients and not pay a dime for the application fee.

        Do try reading the article next time. I'll quote the relevant section.

        The $2,000 increase may be added to the $320 H-1B filing fee, said Sarah Hawk, who heads the immigration practice at Fisher & Phillips LLP in Atlanta.

        H-1B visa fees can add up. There are a number of other add-on fees as well: a $500 antifraud fee that

      • by Idbar (1034346)
        Nice math! There is a 60.000 H1-B visa cap each year + 20.000 for high-degrees. The H1-B lasts up to 6 years. In the past years (previous to the recession), all the applications were fulfilled on the first day (April 1st). Which means that on average there would be around 80.000 H1-B recipients per year or about 480.000 active H1-B visas floating around.

        As a foreign I could just tell you, it's not about Intel or MS. It's about another bunch of companies that charge people for getting them an H1-B. Which
      • Microsoft has 90,000 employees. Intel has 83,000 at least. Considering that there are around 100,000 H1B recipients, you could place nearly all of them at just these two companies and they wouldn't have to pay a dime for any applications, since it would be less than 50% of their employment.

        In other words, this is little more than a tempest in a teapot. Yeah, Microsoft and Intel are big companies who employ lots of people. However, as a fraction of the overall economy, they only make up a small portion. I

        • If there are 100 tickets to a concert and 99 of us want them, they will go cheap.
          If there are 100 tickets to a concert and 103 of us want them, they may get very expensive.

          Listen, wages will average out between our countries- nothing can stop that. They will come up and we will stagnate or go down.

          Anyway, all of this ignores an upcoming surge of inexpensive robotic labor which will decimate manual labor jobs.

          Continuing from above, if the demand for math degrees is 1% of the population and .5% have one, the

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by nacturation (646836) *

      The submission is from theodp... what did you expect, an anti-Amazon patent rant?

      • The submission is from theodp... what did you expect, an anti-Amazon patent rant?

        Google gets a 'free pass' too, not to mention almost every American company. Looks like the headline and summary were spinned to troll Slashdot.

        • by Bigjeff5 (1143585)

          My God! Even McDonalds gets a free pass! Those bastards, with their McCafe's and McSmoothies and McShakes!

          Seriously, this story is retarded.

    • by c0lo (1497653)

      As far as I can tell, this isn't Microsoft and Intel "getting a pass", as the title states. No company is being singled out here

      • Formally, the title seems correct to me: since neither Intel nor MS are affected, they do get a pass, at least for now, isn't it?
      • In real-world terms, even if other companies would "get a pass too", the most affected will be: either the pure sweat-shops or small American companies for which one extra employees in H1B visa may mean the difference between paying or not paying an extra tax.

      Does it make sense? (note: I'm not discussing or implying anything about the desirability of any situation. Just explorin

      • by Bigjeff5 (1143585)

        It even tries to make Infosys out to be not so bad (because the real bad guys are somehow Intel and Microsoft, for not highering as high a percentage of H1-B's?) even though Infosys has something like 70-80% H1-B employees.

        The target is obviously those companies who are using the H1-B program to hire cheep labor at rates Americans can't compete with (because of school loans and the like), of which Intel and Microsoft are not.

        Trust me, hiring foreign workers is no panacea, and most companies realize it. Whi

    • by toastar (573882) on Monday August 09, 2010 @04:41AM (#33186628)

      FTFS: ``The Senate measure increases H-1B visa fees by $2,000 per application on firms that have 50% or more of their employees on this visa.''

      And Microsoft and Intel evidently are below this 50% limit. As far as I can tell, this isn't Microsoft and Intel "getting a pass", as the title states. No company is being singled out here. It doesn't matter who you are, what matters if you have 50% or more of your employees on H-1B visa.

      You must not be from america..... Or you failed you high school civics class. Of course it's worded this way, if it said the specific companies that didn't get taxed it would be a bill of attainder. The question is who it targets, 50% sounds like a round number, but you would be surprised at how many people probably lobbied to get it set that high. A good question is which companies would have been hit if it was set to 25% or 75%.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by recoiledsnake (879048)

        Picking out MS and Intel in the headline was clearly meant to troll Slashdot. Google and almost every other big tech company gets a 'free pass' too.

  • why? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:13AM (#33186112)

    And why does it make sense to tax legal immigration to fight illegal immigration? As if legal immigration causes illegal...

    • Re:why? (Score:4, Informative)

      by cappp (1822388) on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:36AM (#33186230)
      It's part of the general insanity of US immigration. I have friends that attended elite American universities and earned graduate degrees in the hard sciences - mechanics, biological sciences, physics and so on - and struggled to be allowed to stay in the US. These are people who have invested huge amounts in the American economy, provided skilled intellectual labour during their time in the country, and threw themselves into politcal and charitable volunteerism. Most spent 8 years in the country and were invited to leave as soon as possible after graduation - or perhaps after a year of work experience training. That's madness.

      Interesting portion of the article

      H-1B visa fees can add up. There are a number of other add-on fees as well: a $500 antifraud fee that is required for any new H-1B and L-1 visa user, and a fee for training U.S. workers that scales from $750 to $1,500, depending on the size of the company applying for a visa. Many companies also pay $1,000 extra for what's called premium processing to accelerate handling of the visa. And legal fees can run as high as $2,000.

      and

      The H-1B fee increase is going to cover only a fraction of the $600 million the Senate wants for border security. The largest H-1B user in 2008 was Infosys, which accounted for 4,500 visas that year. A $2,000 fee increase would have added about $9 million to its visa bill.

      • Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by jcr (53032) <jcr@nOspAm.mac.com> on Monday August 09, 2010 @03:30AM (#33186392) Journal

        That reminds me of one man I know who attended the University of Maryland, and got a computer science degree. He was from Hungary, and at the time, anyone shipping so much as a Z80 to Hungary was looking at hard time. This guy could have built a VAX from TTL parts from memory, and our brilliant government wanted to send him and his skills back behind the iron curtain.

        -jcr

        • Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by tempest69 (572798) on Monday August 09, 2010 @05:05AM (#33186702) Journal
          The problem I see with the H1-B is kinda backwards.. The companies are able to really abuse these workers. Now even If I don't care an ounce about these people - it's still bad news for me. When it comes time for death march coding it destroys the leverage of the local workers to make appropriate demands for compensation. When it comes time for raises it becomes harder to compete with the people who are here at lower pay grades.
          The problem I see is the H1-B's are locked in to their jobs, and nearly indentured servants. My problem is that the Hungarian will work for 30k and they expect an American with that level of skill to work for a mere 45k. Though with some relaxing on the H1-B the Hungarian could go on to find 6 figure work. Working at a project appropriate to his skill level.
          My take is that we should keep the high end labor.. it makes the US richer, it makes the immigrants richer, and it means we have more top end people working the hard problems.

          Storm

          • by hibiki_r (649814)

            Switching jobs is not so easy under H1-B, but not impossible anymore. Still, a barrier.

            The real problem is in the Green Card backlog. If a company wants to make an H1-B permanent, they better have a Master's degree, because if they don't they will get approved, but face a backlog between 5 and 10 years. This is one reason many weak international students will go for a master whether they find it useful or not: It shortens the Green Card application process to under 6 months.

            By the time an H1-B without a gra

          • by IICV (652597)

            I'm actually quite unclear on what the difference between someone with an H1-B visa and someone who has signed an indentured servitude contract is. Even the terms are similar - indentured servants sign a contract for three to seven years, receive housing, clothing and food in return for their labor, and must remain with the contractor until the end of their terms. H1-B Visas are valid for only three years which can be extended up to six, the workers are generally paid just barely enough to cover food, cloth

      • Countries in general seem unable to have sane immigration policies. It is just one area that stupidity and bureaucracy form a perfect storm. Example:

        My father is American, born in the US. My mom is a Canadian, born in Canada. Most of their lives were spent in the US (that's where I was born and raised). However, before I was born, during the Vietnam War they went up to Canada. My dad intended to dodge the draft. I say intended because he was never actually drafted but he wasn't waiting around for that to ha

        • by puto (533470)
          Actually, There are grey legal areas in what your dad is trying to to do. First your dual citizenship is grounded in the ffact that you have dual nationalities. A parent from each place. However, if a US citizen applies for citizenship in another country, he can run the risk of losing his US citizenship. You really need to have your father read this. http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html [state.gov]
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by megaditto (982598)

      What else is Chucky Schumer to do?

      In an election year, the voters have three priorities: jobs, borders, and deficits.

      Like any good Democrat he knows that you can't tax the illegal immigrants: they are already poor, and you will piss off many liberals.
      You also you can't tax regular citizens because they might vote you out!

      But by taxing work visas it looks like you are creating more jobs for Americans, while funding the borders, while reducing the deficit! Killing three birds with one stone!

      • by sqrt(2) (786011)

        Those are pretty much the priorities of most people for most years, although it seems to more favor Republicans. Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes, they pay sales and property taxes (which are unavoidable if you buy goods and rent property) and most have payroll taxes taken out of the checks by their employer to cover their own asses. Many also pay into SS with fake numbers, so they'll never see any of that money but are subsidizing people who will.

        Jobs aren't being saved or created by making it harder for ed

      • You also you can't tax regular citizens because they might vote you out!

        But by taxing work visas it looks like you are creating more jobs for Americans, while funding the borders, while reducing the deficit! Killing three birds with one stone!

        You say "looks like." How is this not the case? IMHO, this reinforces the stated goals of the H1-B program, which is to attract exceptional talent to the US that can't be sourced domestically. If you're looking to hire a "rockstar,*" $2k is not a lot of money to drop. On the other hand, it might make a company think twice about hiring a foreign worker as a "grunt."

        *Forgive me, I hate the term too, but it works here.

    • Indian staffing companies are reporting record profits. When US politicians smell windfall profits, it's just like when sharks smell blood in the water.

      When there is money to be had, the US politicians will think up some excuse to get their cut. Remember Godfather II? The way things worked in the old neighborhood, when you made a score, the local Don had an automatic right to "wet his beak." The same system was portrayed in that Goodfellas movie.

      07/23/2010

      > Indian software services provider Wipro said quarterly profit jumped 31 percent to 13.19 billion rupees ($284 million), beating expectations, as India's No. 3 outsourcer ramped up staffing to meet stronger global demand.

      > Revenue for the April-June quarter rose 16 percent over the same period last year to 72.36 billion rupees ($1.56 billion) under international accounting standards.

      > A Thomson Reuters poll of 23 analysts forecast quarterly profit of 12.15 billion rupees.

      > "We are seeing strong demand ... across our industry," chairman Azim Premji said in a statement Friday. "We added the highest number of billable employees ever, in this quarter."

      http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_15586063 [mercurynews.com]

    • User of a government service have to pay for increases in the service. There is much more scrutiny these days at all levels of foreign travel.
  • by PinkyGigglebrain (730753) on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:17AM (#33186150)
    I can already see smaller companies going to court to claim that they are being unfairly burdened by the higher cost.

    Right or wrong this is going to cause some fur to fly.
  • by gmhowell (26755) <gmhowell@gmail.com> on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:22AM (#33186170) Homepage Journal

    If 50%+ of your employees are H1-B's, I would suggest that your business model is not viable in the United States.

    • No, it just means your lobbying expenses are above average.

    • by Hognoxious (631665) on Monday August 09, 2010 @03:21AM (#33186376) Homepage Journal

      Care to explain? If a company is doing it there and not going out of business it would appear to me that it's very viable indeed.

  • WSJ [wsj.com]: It is likely the senator was going for 'body shop,' also a derogatory term, but one that describes firms who shuffle low-cost tech engineers around the globe.

  • by cgenman (325138) on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:40AM (#33186248) Homepage

    Shouldn't we be taxing H1-B applications to increase funding for local schools? After all, a big reason why workers come over on the program is because we genuinely lack enough skilled labor to meet our needs at reasonable price levels. Having come through the California school system myself, I'm a bit shocked that computers can add.

    Taxing companies that bring over immigrant workers to pay for border patrol paranoia seems foolish. Tax them to help increase local talent levels. Or require the people to become permanent citizens, thereby permanently increasing the local talent levels.

    • by Mitsoid (837831)
      Politics and logic / common sense?

      What country do you live in? It's not the US!

      It would be nice though :-)
    • by ultranova (717540) on Monday August 09, 2010 @07:40AM (#33187128)

      After all, a big reason why workers come over on the program is because we genuinely lack enough skilled labor to meet our needs at reasonable price levels.

      No, you don't. You, like all non-third-world economies, lack skilled labour willing to work at subsistence wage. This is the corporate definition of "reasonable price level", and is what offshoring and immigration labour is meant to fix. After all, the top 1% holds only a third of all wealth, so there's plenty of room for improvement.

  • by calagan800xl (1001055) on Monday August 09, 2010 @04:02AM (#33186488)
    As I've been the beneficiary of an H-1B with Microsoft, I know very well that MS also does a good job at sending H1-B permit holders back home after 1-2 years, before they get a green card. They actually paid for my 1-way ticket back to Europe. I'd be interested to see what is the proportion of H-1B visa holders who end up staying permanently in the US and which company hired them.
    • As I've been the beneficiary of an H-1B with Microsoft, I know very well that MS also does a good job at sending H1-B permit holders back home after 1-2 years, before they get a green card. They actually paid for my 1-way ticket back to Europe. I'd be interested to see what is the proportion of H-1B visa holders who end up staying permanently in the US and which company hired them.

      In not trying to read into any underlying cynicism with your post, I assume you going back to Europe, and thus forgoing the greencard process, is what you wanted.

  • Alot of foreigners (like me) out there would like to come to the U.S. and hire (relatively) cheap American engineers,
    but we can't do it because foreign investment visas are too costly/risky for small companies.

    Here in Australia, our labour market is tightly government regulated, and it's nearly impossible to hire decent
    engineers here for anything less than a king's ransom as competition for anyone good is fierce - even the banks
    have problem hiring people.

    So support startupvisa.com, to drive jobs and innovat

  • by BobTheLawyer (692026) on Monday August 09, 2010 @05:05AM (#33186700)

    This is just protectionism - why shouldn't American companies be able to hire whoever they want?

    • by Mikkeles (698461) on Monday August 09, 2010 @07:46AM (#33187148)

      They can; but just because a company hired someone does not entitle that person to be allowed to live in (or even visit) the US.

    • Why shouldn't Americans be able to by goods that are not subject to tariffs or import taxes? Why can't or don't American companies compete with foreign competitors on an equal playing field?
  • H1 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mike-seo (1874258)
    We cannot altogether make the H-1 visa so difficult that we stop getting the adequate staff. At the same time there needs to be some preference be given to local Talent.
  • This is a tragic industry trend. I work at a company where about 75% of all developers are HB1 visa holders. These companies are looking for 'instant' workforces that they can bring along and dismantle when a project ends. They also like to work these people like crazy, as they will only be around for a few years. They can work hard for a few years and go back to their country with more money maybe to buy a house or get married. As for HB1 visa holders being cheaper, perhaps a little bit when it come
  • by Foolicious (895952) on Monday August 09, 2010 @08:37AM (#33187376)
    My (now former) company simply opened multiple large IT ffices in places like Gurgaon, Mumbai and Noida, so they don't have to get H1B workers. (They were first opened as BPO offices.) American workers are slowly laid off (always in small numbers every few months) or lost by attrition, new workers are hired in those Indian offices and work for the Indian subsidiary of that company. Those offices have grown by leaps and bounds since they were first opened in 2002-3ish. So that company doesn't "outsource" anything or get any H1Bs. Whether or not that's a dirty trick is another discussion. Everyone will have their opinions.

    I would say that any H1B in this economy is pretty frustrating if just based on perception (and perception tends to be reality...); I guess I just don't believe there aren't enough American workers to do those jobs.
    • by rickb928 (945187) on Monday August 09, 2010 @09:05AM (#33187550) Homepage Journal

      I know your former company, and they have changed their temp labor policy recently. In fact, the mix of foreign workers has been changing from largely Indian nationals to Asian nationals. But the offices worldwide still exist, and show no signs of being dininished.

      Offshoring is still in progress. But I'm being converted as we speak.

      It's a tangled mess, but I'm still disappointed. We just got a new temp in who is in the U.S. on an H1B. Seriously, they are doing the very same job that dozens of U.S. citizens did in 2008m the VERY SAME JOB. And many of those U.S. citzens that were laid off in 2008 are still looking for that work.

      It's abusive, and has been for a long time. H1Bs need to be reduced dramatically. There are, repeat ARE, citizens that can do the work.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        There are, repeat ARE, citizens that can do the work.

        US citizen, here. been laid off for many months. have been horrified by the lowball offers that come in, trying to take advantage of the perception of the 'poor economy'.

        american-born workers are looking for jobs and yet we continue to import and outsource jobs.

        if only those in power would feel what its like. that's all I ask. have them walk in our shoes for a while.

        not only is there ageism happening in high tech, but its reverse discrimination when l

        • still believe in this misguided concept of 'trickle down'

          That isn't a concept, it's a campaign slogan (really, I'm being serious for once)

  • I find lawyers charge way to much. We should allow visas for lawyers that will work for $20/hr. I wonder what the odds of getting that through congress would be?
    • by nomadic (141991)
      I find lawyers charge way to much. We should allow visas for lawyers that will work for $20/hr. I wonder what the odds of getting that through congress would be?

      There are huge numbers of licensed American attorneys who already will work for $20 an hour, don't need to import anyone.
  • WTF does this have to do with stopping illegal Latin Americans from crossing our southern border? ZERO. "Mexican Border Security Bill", huh. This is how we got in this fucking mess. Leave it to a guy whose state borders Canada...
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by dooode (1134443)

      Yes, this is crazy. There are more than "11 million" illegal* Hispanic immigrants to US. The logic is, that by raising the fees for H1B, more money can be raised to control the immigration at the borders. There is nothing wrong with that, as every country has the right to determine the cost of its visa applications. But then is it logical?

      The "total" number of H1B's has been 65,000. Out of this, only 20,000 applications got filled last year. And most of these applications are by people who are educated, Eng

      • by drumcat (1659893)
        I don't care who speaks what, and I really do understand H-1B's are a hot mess. But that debate belongs somewhere else -- that's my point. Securing the borders and not giving up on Arizona is the right thing to do, and adding any discussion of visas is totally disingenuous. This is about ILLEGAL entry, and unless he was talking about making 14 million H-1B's available for free, he's not addressing the problem. I wish Schumer lived in a southern border state. Dipshit.
  • Why don't Intel and MS (and others) don't open centers in immigration-friendly countries then? Specifically for that purpose.

  • We did some financials outsourcing to Infosys, and I can honestly say it was nothing like "skilled" work. Most of the people whose jobs were outsourced had mediocre skills, and no special education.

    Mind, the Infosys people are hilariously bad, and the number of errors that they're making on financial jobs that have to be tediously fixed because they can't be re-run is staggering.

    Just my two cents.

  • My two rupees ;-) (Score:2, Informative)

    by achyuta (1236050)
    A couple of points here as I'm working in the US on a H1-B, just so you know how things look from my perspective.

    Why an American company would want to hire H1-B holders instead of citizens:
    - Contractors are cheaper (No need for 401K, benefits etc etc)
    - Contractors are easily expendable (If, Heavens forbid, we have another meltdown like 2008)
    - The American company can plan inaccurately and dial the contractor workforce up or down based on budgets/company or project performance. You can basically tweak
  • by bugs2squash (1132591) on Monday August 09, 2010 @02:24PM (#33192568)
    the H1Bs are the ones you want. That and the special visas for artists and extremely rich people. The moral problem with these special visas is not at the receiving country's end, it is with the drain on talent and capital that it places on the originating country. Unless, say, India benefits from returning citizens with valuable foreign work experience it strikes me that India has more to lose than the US in this transfer of labor.
    It strikes me that the "problem" is how to keep and feed huge numbers of US citizens that are not in this league professionally. The problem to my mind is not so much that there are only so many highly-skilled tech jobs around as that there are fewer and fewer productive things for people that lack high-end skills to do. If we are looking for a way to fully employ America and maintain a strong middle class (ie, what passes for socialism here) then we need to look for solutions for Americans in the bottom 50% of qualification and not worry about a few thousand high-end earners.
    For the bottom 50%, H1Bs look like a winning proposition to me because they assume their burden of the tax base.
    • A US company can hire an H1B even when a US worker is available. This happens all the time. US workers are frequently required to train their H1B replacements.

      This has a very harsh "chilling effect" on aspiring tech workers. Why train for a job when you're just going to replaced by a cheaper H1B?

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