Is the Master's Degree the New Bachelor's? 330
Hugh Pickens writes "Laura Pappano writes that the master's degree, once derided as the consolation prize for failing to finish a Ph.D., or as a way to kill time waiting out economic downturns, is now the fastest-growing degree, with 657,000 awarded in 2009, more than double the level in the 1980s. Today nearly two in 25 people age 25 and over have a master's, about the same proportion that had a bachelor's or higher in 1960. 'Several years ago it became very clear to us that master's education was moving very rapidly to become the entry degree in many professions,' says Debra W. Stewart, president of the Council of Graduate Schools. 'There is definitely some devaluing of the college degree going on,' adds Eric A. Hanushek, an education economist at the Hoover Institution. 'We are going deeper into the pool of high school graduates for college attendance,' making a bachelor's no longer an adequate screening measure of achievement for employers. But some wonder if a master's is worth the extra effort. 'In some fields, such as business or engineering, a graduate degree typically boosted income by more than enough to justify the cost,' says Liz Pulliam Weston. 'In others — the liberal arts and social sciences, in particular — master's degrees didn't appear to produce much if any earnings advantage.'"
When jobs are scarce, this happens (Score:5, Insightful)
We would not be having this discussion if things were booming. Back in 2000, you could get a job if you could spell HTML. The reason M is the B is that degrees for many/most jobs serves as a WAY TO CUT DOWN THE PILE FOR HR. Nothing more, nothing less.
Huh. (Score:4, Insightful)
Engineering is interesting. But the MBA is a vocational degree, so it doesn't really fit into the traditional college degree format. Perhaps in the economic downturn you need to not only prove you can think (Bachelors Degree), but prove you've received specialized instruction in your field (Masters)?
Not all Bachelor's Degrees are created equal... (Score:5, Insightful)
"making a bachelor's no longer an adequate screening measure of achievement for employers"
What many employers fail to realize is that various Bachelor's Degrees require different levels of work. Some much more than others.
A BS in Engineering or BA in History require extensive reading and research. A generic "Business Degree" requires just showing up to class.
Once upon a time (Score:5, Insightful)
Why, you might ask? Simple: because it screened out the lower classes such as Okies.
Back in the early 70s, the hiring officer for my first job after graduation had a sign on his wall: "A four year degree means a man is trainable." (Yes, "man." Times were different and nobody even pretended to be gender-neutral.) He explained it: "If you can put up with four years of bullshit to get a piece of paper, you can stick out the six months it'll take us to train you to be useful."
Pure screening system. The whole idea isn't that you learn anything particularly useful in college, it's that it makes it easy to reject enough candidates to keep the applicant list manageable.
Well, now more people have BS degrees and they need to screen more people out. It's just that simple.
More degrees = More Skeptical (Score:4, Insightful)
Of all the PhD's I've interviewed for engineering positions, only a couple got my vote. Most are too specialized, too arrogant, and generally too stuck in the clouds.
Master's folks are 50/50'ish. Same story, but there are a lot more mixed in that turn out to be great engineers and simply wanted to know (or earn) more. I still greatly adjust the thrust of my interview questions when I see the advanced degrees, as nothing is worse than a dolt in sheeps clothing, as management is usually too slow to catch onto the real score in time.
Bachelor's folks who slip in and are idiots are SO much easier to get rid of later, or at least much easier to train into someone who can hold the right end of a soldering iron. Generally bachelor's folks realize they have a lot to learn, while the PhD's not only don't know any more, but they adamantly believe they know it all.
makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)
People live longer, work longer, so why not go to school longer? Its not like the world is getting simpler, in fact quite the opposite.
Re:When jobs are scarce, this happens (Score:5, Insightful)
Education is what you decide to take out of it.
I left college enriched and with a new set of skills that I felt made me very valuable in real life. Others who took the same classes, could barely use any of the tools and had much harder time and were quite unprepared and only knew C++ (even though they took the same classes when I was out I had C, C++, Java, Python, Lisp and many others under my belt (Those were new technologies at the time))
Because after I was taught the basics I expanded further to try to actually master the topics vs. just enough to pass the test.
I came in to college knowing how to Program, and I majored in Computer Science. I saw that it improved my skills and was worth it.
Others got less out out. Because they decided not to be educated in the topic but get the degree.
The value of the Masters is the fact that after getting the first degree they went back to more... And a lot of those people who didn't decide to invest in their undergrad didn't come back, leaving Master students more people who wanted to invest in their education, vs. just getting the paper.
It isn't as much the school, but the culture of education, where actually wanting to learn stuff vs. just passing the class is discouraged.
Colleges know that that why they are so much more expensive, more and more money goes into non-education... They go to making bigger and fancier classrooms (But if you check the utilization of the current classrooms you can see that most rooms are empty, and they just need a cheaper refurbishment, but to the colleges who are collecting money, a new building is so much more effective then getting money then refurbishing the old classrooms) So much is wasted and little is invested in the students.
Re:Degree Inflation (Score:5, Insightful)
Hell, I'd say that most of my friends with college degrees work in fields that have nothing to do with their degrees....self included.
My BS is in Biochem...yet I've never worked in that field ever. I tried for med school...got close a few times, then moved on. Been doing DBA work, data modelling...and some slight sys and application admin stuff. During the school years...sold clothes retail, worked restaurants, bartended...head chef in my own place for awhile....so I really don't yet know what I want to be when I 'grow up'...
But, having that degree...sure gets the foot in the door, that and actually having a personality and being able to promote yourself and talk to people helps. Heck one of my first technical jobs...I got hired...and was in a group of software guys...who ALL knew so much more about everything than I did....(and I did learn a lot from them over those years), but I'd hardly been there a week, and the group had to give a presentation to the users we were creating a GUI for to front end an older mainframe system. Well, everyone in the group was petrified to stand up and present in front of what was a small group of maybe 20-30 people tops.
I promptly said I'd do it...if they'd coach me on what to say, etc. I gave the talk, and when I hit something I didn't know or remember, I'd call on one of them to chime in with a quick answer...etc. No problem.
After that...management looked very favorably upon me...and my career has gone up ever since then.
I've found that you don't always have to be the best technical person...but having a gift of gab, being friendly and getting along with all.....having people skills will carry you a LONG way.
Re:Huh. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to slag the concept of an MBA, but I am willing to bet more than a few of us have seen what happens when someone who is essentially a fresh college graduate thinks he knows how to run an engineering entity (and, in fact, doesn't know how to do anything).
NOT to slag MBAs?? They need to be slagged off! At my firm, MBAs are the butt of nearly every joke about incompetence. And that's from someone who's actually sat in a well known business school, "studying" management, leadership, etc. It's a complete and utter scam. What's amazing is even though I thought it was pretty intellectually light (compared to my Engineering degree) I thought I might have learned something useful. Nope. Today, 3 startup-firms on, I can honestly say it didn't help squat. Oh wait, maybe it did help get me in the door, and making people think I knew more than I really did. But that's about it.
Things I learned on the management course: history of various firms (case studies, interesting in the Discovery channel way), different ways to illustrate BGOs. (Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious: SWOT analysis, brainstorming, drawing a friggin chart, etc.) How to make things look more complicated than they really are. Don't know why, but many people think you're smart if you confuse them. The smart ones can tell from you explaining things in 2 sentences.
Things I learned in the real world: how to hire people, how to fire them, how to talk to clients, how to talk to suppliers, how to find out what the next move is, how to filter out my industry news, how to rent an office, how to get someone to clean it, how to pay the bills, how to get offshore directors who are competent, how to identify a good lawyer, how to make the most of an accountant, how to get investors, etc. Of course, none of these things can realistically be taught without some business taking a chance on you.
Re:When jobs are scarce, this happens (Score:2, Insightful)
If the process of going to college, graduating and getting a piece of paper means that learning something is not connected to that process then the process is broken.
If college is only what you put into it then why go at all? Why not just get some books and hunker down and study for yourself. You would save a lot of money, right? Why? Because you need the credentials. You are buying the credentials! Some fools actually go to college to learn something. The smart ones just go to buy the credentials and get their high paying jobs. Why bother doing the work if you don't have to?
It's obvious the process is broken if we're even having this discussion. Have you seen those guys that skip class and just show up for the test? If it's only a learning facility they why are you paying them to learn on your own and take a test if they are not training you at all? Then you will have paid a lot of money to say that it's what you put into it. Oh, and you can brag that you skip a lot of classes and just took the test and passed. You could have saved a ton of money and just studied on your own and then if you felt the need you could have gone to one of those websites to get the $50 diploma for the credentials!
College in general is a SCAM! Most of what I've learned I've learned outside of college. I remember most of my teachers weren't all that bright. Those that can't teach ya know! Granted I'm not the greatest speller but I about fell out of my chair laughing when one of my professors were writing on the board and couldn't spell. It was sad really.
Again, If the process of going to college, graduating and getting a piece of paper means that learning something is not connected to that process then the process is broken. To me I just think people are buying credentials.
Re:When jobs are scarce, this happens (Score:4, Insightful)
A real passion for learning is the kiss of death to a college GPA. 99.99995% of the knowledge in the library has no bearing on your next set of midterms or finals. Pursuing any of that other knowledge will actually hurt your grades. Even if it is related, if it disagrees with your professors opinions, knowing it could hurt your grades. The grades you get also have little to do with how much you know about the course topic, less to do with what you'll actually be able to remember in ten years, still less with your ability to think about it, nothing to do with your ability to apply it, and a negative amount to do with your ability to innovate in the field. College diplomas are certificates of conformity, nothing more. The process of getting them actually damages competence and creative ability in many ways.