Teacher Union Tries To Block Online Courses 608
itwbennett writes "Facing budget problems, University of California officials and state analysts say that expanding online courses could help them 'innovate out of the current crisis.' But the lecturers whose jobs are at stake see it differently. Now the UC chapter of the American Federation of Teachers is fighting to block online courses."
Re:Union Featherbedding, Meh (Score:5, Informative)
The link is a tiny little blog post. (Score:5, Informative)
Here [insidehighered.com] is some actual coverage.
Anyway. There's no doubt that a lot of courses can be taught effectively online. There's also no doubt, for anyone who's ever done any real teaching, that once the subject matter gets the least bit advanced, there's a sharp limit to how much you can learn in an online course. Introductory "101" courses, which are mostly taught in giant lecture halls anyway, can probably go online with no ill effect on the students. Once you get beyond that level, most people need face-to-face interaction to really understand the subject.
Libertarian Alarmists (Score:2, Informative)
Gotta love the massive web of the Libertarian propaganda machine that has managed to infect slashdot with not only garbage propaganda but a flood of dunderhead commentators.
If you manage to dig your way through a google search and make it past all the Libertarian alarms warning of the teachers union led commie pinko take over of the world you might stumble upon the actual UC-AFT web site [ucaft.org] where they specifically state "we will use our collective bargaining power to make sure that this move to distance education is done in a fair and just way for our members".
Thats right, the union is not blocking online courses, but they do intend to do their job as a group representing the employees and try to retain jobs, pay and benefits as the online transition occurs.
Or you might stumble upon the OP ED in the LA Times [latimes.com] where an instructor who will be affected by the changes gives a balanced and skeptical view on the subject at hand. The instructor admits that "I have lectured by live videoconference when an unavoidable business trip left me the choice between teaching by videoconference or not at all. Each time I do this I am struck by the near miracle of reaching across time zones and miles to see and hear my students in a sunlit classroom in California. I speak and write on the board; they take notes and ask questions. Business as usual."
Oh well, let the Libertarian dunderheads flail their arms and scream their factually incorrect headlines from the roofs.
Re:Unions College educated people (Score:4, Informative)
Re:NEW tried this and failed (Score:4, Informative)
Online courses, if designed as online courses instead of dumping text onto a site, can be quite good. The course will need to be designed for online consumption - tutorials, audio visual aids, help desk accessible teaching staff and students. . Face-to-face teaching given the right teacher would always be a better option though.
IMO.
Re:its not 'unions'. (Score:5, Informative)
My solution is to give each student a voucher, and to employ free market regarding education. Not public schools, only public funding of education.
I definitely like the idea of vouchers, but it is not a universal solution. It really only works in areas with dense populations. Everywhere else, issues start to crop up.
For instance, transportation becomes a huge problem... my district "solves" it by busing all of the charter kids to the central high school and then busing to the charters from the central high school, but it really racks up the total trip time and makes the main buses very dependent on a late feeder bus. Our district spends more on the special ed, charter, and private school busing than on the main public schools, despite fewer children.
Another problem is class size. Some areas have such a low population that they can barely justify even a single public high school. Below a certain size, it becomes impractical to support many programs.
So I think there still is a place for government-run schools.
Re:lying sacks of excrement (Score:5, Informative)
You're right, we only want teachers who do it for the love of the job, the children, the teaching. And, pace Kant, the only way to be sure of that is to not pay them. After all, if you don't love teaching enough to work a second job at night to pay the bills, you obviously don't love children.
Seriously, why the fuck shouldn't they care about job security?
My wife is a high school teacher involved in a job action right now, and the sticking point of negotiations isn't money, it's class sizes. They're contractually capped at 30 students per classroom, but somehow she always has 35, and the government is looking to increase that actual cap. Remind me again how useless and self-interested unions are when your kid is sitting with 34 peers, wondering why the teacher never has time to answer his questions.
Re:Union Featherbedding, Meh (Score:3, Informative)
They're trying to help students. I had dosage calculation online. It was horrible. It's a good thing I made the decision to drop and retake it -- I probably would have passed with enough of a grade to go on, but I did NOT feel confident with my knowledge of it. People could have DIED if I didn't decide that class was nonsense. Every single online course I tried was horrible. The best I could hope for was a hybrid class. Pure online is pure garbage for so many students. Cheating is so easy, too!
Besides, it is still a limited amount of students per class -- they're still paying teachers. You're not getting away with not paying them completely. Maybe you're ok with online courses, but when it comes to someone's life? Not worth it. No way.
Re:Union Featherbedding, Meh (Score:4, Informative)
Agreed. I went back to school after 4 years in the workforce and finished the last year of my 4 year degree entirely online. And to be perfectly honest, while lacking the true social element, I learned just as well, if not better in the online courses. Having said that, I don't think there is a university that will allow you to complete an entire degree online yet, aside from University of Phoenix and a few others I know nothing about, I referring to a traditional university. I was lucky to even do a year online, and it almost didn't work out. I am a firm believer that the right teachers, with the right tools can make an online school just as good as a traditional one.
Purdue. WPI. Georgia Tech. University of Florida. Florida Atlantic University. Arizona State University. Just off the top of my head, and with respect to 100% online master degrees in a variety of engineering fields (mostly CE/ECE and Systems Engineering) and Computer Science.
Re:Professors, not high school teachers (Score:4, Informative)
In my department there are profs that, in a meritocracy, wouldn't stand a chance of being employed another semester. How can you possibly teach a CS class and never once log into a class computer?
Online classes are good for the disciplined students and those that have some prior knowledge of the course material and I'm glad my department is exploring offering more online. It frees the students' time to do other things other than spend gas money and time to warm a seat to learn stuff they already know. But it's really not for everyone. It is kind-of like the higher education equivalent of home schooling. It requires discipline and a routine in order to stay on top of assignments and do well. Some students just need that face-to-face verbal kick in the ass to get anything done. Like I say to my students "It's your time and your money. I don't care what you do with it, but I would rather give an A instead of an F"