How To Get Into an Elite Comp-Sci Program 297
alphadogg writes "With early applications to elite colleges at an all-time high, the nation's highest-rated undergraduate computer science programs are bracing for an uptick in applications between now and January. High school seniors are facing stiffer-than-ever competition when applying to the nation's top computer science programs this fall. But admissions officers and professors at elite tech schools can offer tips aimed at helping your child get accepted come spring."
Re:Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wish it was not "Your Child" (Score:4, Insightful)
The world is as it is, but, it is my desire that these tips were directed at (and people expected them to be directed at) the "children" (adults) applying and not the parents.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes and no. Yes, your talent is the most important long term factor. But the elite universities take a very different approach to teaching, especially for sciences and engineering. Compare the CS curriculum at MIT to that at your state college. MIT's is far more hardcore, and with much greater emphasis theory. Same for other fields. There is a qualitative difference between a top tier school and the rest of the pack.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
It might help on applying for your first job, but after that I presume that your experience will matter a lot more. I wouldn't actually know since I'm still technically on my first job.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:3, Insightful)
In the end it is not where you went to school. But more of what you have learned and can you apply it.
I have seen people, from notable schools, that just did not have a clue of what was asked of them on the job.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not so sure that a place like MIT is any more theoretical than some land grant college. It's certainly more stressful though. It's also a lot more expensive. You will likely be saddled with a much larger debt when your done.
What advantage you get might not be worth the cost.
Re:Computer science != IT jobs (Score:4, Insightful)
You have no idea what you're talking about. Get a CS degree and work as a programmer for 15 years -- like me -- before you comment.
Ditto. CS degrees teach about algorithms and data structures, file systems design, operating system design, parallel programming, software engineering, compiler, grammar and language design, and many other concepts that make CS graduates excellent coders. Non-CS graduates are permanently handicapped and they don't even know it.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:4, Insightful)
Where you go sure can help, though.
True, assuming you can do it without incurring huge student loan debt.
Which means you have to get an elite level job to pay for the elite level loan. This can have some severe issues WRT quality of life, if you take a "small" pool of jobs and make it even smaller by only being able to survive with the most elite of that already small pool. So you'll be the last STEM guy who's job is exported to India, who cares, you'll only be a couple years behind me, in the long run it won't matter to either of us... If you want to work 80 hour weeks and not recognize spouse/kids, go to MIT, if you want 40 hrs/wk like I have, then... don't. I caught a lot of flack 25 years ago telling my HS guidance counselor that I appreciate that he insists I should apply to more elite schools because of grades / scores whatever, but I don't want to go and want to attend state U instead (because I was obsessed with the then new-ish movie "Animal House", and I later re-enacted most of those scenes as a freshman, except for the motor cycle up the front stairs, but that's a whole 'nother (fun) story)
Re:Computer science != IT jobs (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow, you really think that someone can't learn those thing alone ??
You can learn anything alone. You can teach yourself quantum physics if you want. But do you think self-education is going to be as good being taught by professors? If you do, I suspect you don't have a college degree at all; you haven't gone through that experience. Having Yoda teach you to be a Jedi is more effective than becoming a Jedi by yourself.
Re:Computer science != IT jobs (Score:4, Insightful)
I suspect that if you're poking around in the innards of an ERP system like the great uncle does then a CS degree would be a handicap. You'd be going "OMG, what is this shit?" so much you'd go mad.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
yes and no.
my college years were in the early 80's. I planned on graduating but after transferring a few times (life sometimes happens..) I found I was missing some credits and after my 4 or 5 yrs (co-op schools had an extra year) I just wanted to be done. I accepted my first computer job (after 'finishing' college) and for most of my career, the lack of an actual degree was not a show-stopper. been at a few boston companies and now in the bay area. until recently, it has not been a problem finding a job and the lack of degree would be something I'd have to explain but my experience (25+ yrs) would be why they would hire me.
problem is, now, extra experience means you expect higher pay and they don't WANT to pay high anymore. there's 100 younger guys willing to be abused, work longer hours and be on call 7x24 for their bosses and there's little reason for companies to hire folks like me. even if I did have a degree, it would not matter much at my age. my age is what works against me, not my 'lack' of education or experience.
when you are fresh out of school, school is all they can look at to evaluate you. if you don't go to a co-op school, where you get assigned (or nearly assigned) a company to work for for 3-6mos then having the degree will matter a lot. but if you are able to fit in some work experience, the degree matters less and less.
what does matter is that you present yourself as willing to be abused and used by the company. THAT, they love. they just love that shit. they'll take a yes-man over a smarter guy most of the time, these days.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:4, Insightful)
It might help on applying for your first job, but after that I presume that your experience will matter a lot more.
Ah yes, cue the endless stream of /. folk saying it doesn't matter... I graduated from one of those schools and 30 years later it still helps ;-) Experience counts very much of course, but some degrees confer instant credibility before anyone starts the process of examining your experience.
Or, to put it another way, I start with the assumption that all MIT CS graduates are "fizz-buzz capable", and I've never been disappointed...
View from the top (Score:4, Insightful)
The advantage of going to a more elite school is that your peers, on average, are going to be smarter and generally more accomplished. This ripples down in many ways, including a faster paced, more in depth curriculum, better resources, better professors, and, perhaps most importantly, connections & relationships for networking that can last a lifetime.
Not saying there aren't smart, capable people at the less elite schools, but generally those who claim it doesn't matter where you go are those who really didn't have a choice.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who's done some hiring, and who's competed against others in being hired, I'd say it depends. If you went to a third tier school and I went to a fifth tier school, it probably doesn't matter once we both have five years or so under our belts. If you went to MIT or Stanford... That's a whole other ballgame. Names like that matter well into your career, possibly for your entire career. In the end a guy from MIT might not always get the job: interviews matter, experience matters, even advanced degrees might matter, but there's definitely a little wow factor added to your resume with that degree even 10 or 15 years down the line (might definitely make a difference in making the cut to get that interview).
That's what this article is about. Getting into one of those 5 or 10 schools where having the name on your resume matters, and will likely continue to matter for a while.
Re:Here's a tip (Score:2, Insightful)
Another girl got into MIT with lower GPA and SAT, but she ...
... was a girl.
fixed that for you.
Re:Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Dip ship MBA (types) are just about the closest work place equivalent of "jocks". The only thing that interests them are bullshit intimidation games like chicken. What's more, they are usually pretty seriously buggered themselves, have no guts, backbone, or substance, and are quick to roll over, "happily" even. Most importantly, even when you beat them, never lose your ability to sneer at the whole thing. You don't want to get sucked in. It's like a bottomless cesspool.
Re:easy (Score:4, Insightful)