Banned From Kickstarter For Being Cyberstalked 382
An anonymous reader writes "Rachel Marone has been a victim of cyberstalking for over 10 years. In 2011, she had a project on Kickstarter shut down because of the high volume of spam posted by the stalker in the comment section of the project. Recently, Marone's manager spoke to Kickstarter again to see how she could avoid having a new project banned if the cyberstalker showed up again. They replied, 'If there is any chance that Rachel will receive spam from a stalker on her project, she should not create one. We simply cannot allow a project to become a forum for rampant spam, as her past project became. If this happens again, we will need to discard the project and permanently suspend Rachel's account.' On her website, Marone sums up the situation thus: 'I am being told that I cannot crowdfund because I am a stalking victim. ... With so many women being stalking targets this does not seem reasonable to me.'"
With all due respect... (Score:4, Insightful)
While I hate to resort to tit-for-tat tactics, the obvious answer here is to spam all the founders' accounts.
Because, quite simply, that's 100% undiluted B.S.
Re:With all due respect... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:With all due respect... (Score:5, Insightful)
If it's really true I'm sure 4chan and gang might have a fun time shutting down ALL the kickstarter projects.
Re:With all due respect... (Score:5, Insightful)
That may be the best option. If you show how easy the system is to abuse, they'll have no choice but to change the system.
Re: (Score:3)
It's easy for an individual with enough time on their hands to create multiple accounts and spam away. Use proxies, cafes, Wifi and Tor to avoid IP bans. It's the price of online freedom.
Re:With all due respect... (Score:5, Insightful)
If the person was using the link to send the project creator a message directly, yes.
Personally I don't see why that link even exists.
But all comments on the comment pages and in project updates can only be placed by backers. You can only become a backer by pledging at least $1. Payment is processed through Amazon, which uses credit cards.
Now, would this really deter a determined stalker? No, probably not. But at some point, buying $10 throw-away credit cards each time you'd get booted off has got to become tedious, and expensive, at some point and certainly puts up a barrier.
Regardless, KickStarter is probably in a difficult position with this - they already can't check every single project in detail (the ones that collect $3M get a one-on-one webcam session, of course), so imagine if they'd have to verify claims about messages they get.
That said - I highly doubt there was so much 'spam' that KickStarter had to intervene. Their system handles hundreds if not thousands of messages, status updates, pledges, etc. etc. every hour.
Re:With all due respect... (Score:4, Insightful)
Funny world this is turning into where Anon is the solution and the cause of many problems. But I'd rather have a chaotic-neutral internet overlord than the lawful-evil corporate Lordship that uses the law to strangle us.
Re: (Score:3)
Well, I'm a longtime Slashdotter and I am also a friend of Rachel's on Facebook--and have been acquainted with her for over 12 years. I wouldn't say we're really good friends or anything, but she's certainly a kind and sincere person and has been dogged by the asshole stalking her for a very long time. He follows her around wherever she goes online and pulls stunts like this to taunt and humiliate her.
I just don't understand why Kickstarter would hold the project manager accountable for comments posted by b
Re:With all due respect... (Score:5, Insightful)
I just don't understand why Kickstarter would hold the project manager accountable for comments posted by backers, but not give the manager the ability to do anything about those comments.
Kickstarter's original complaint was that she was feeding the trolls, not that the trolls were showing up. As far as I can see, Kickstarter wanted rid of her because she was stirring up trouble, or because they were worried about the complaints coming in about a previous project. The last thing they want to do is put something in writing that is legally actionable, so they just default to the Ts & Cs in a vague way. As a course of action, it's time-tested and legally sound.
Re: (Score:3)
It's run-of-the-mill attention whoring bullshit. On to the next...
Re:With all due respect... (Score:5, Informative)
There is a really long thread on reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/s97g4/banned_from_kickstarter_for_being_a_stalking/
I was pretty mad at first. A little more reading and now I think they did the right thing.
Re:With all due respect... (Score:5, Interesting)
OK so there's some speculation she might be a con artist. The project she claims was banned [rachelmarone.com] :
"My client Rachel Marone ran a Kickstarter project called “Extreme Futurist Fest” in April 2011. She was banned because her cyberstalker posted 300 spam comments to her account. "
did go through [kickstarter.com] apparently :
"Extreme Futurist Festival 2011 aims to unite the most radical thinkers around the globe in the fields of science, medicine, transhumanism, cybernetics, artificial intelligence, neuroscience, hacking, philosophy, and the arts."
So there's that.
And people in the comments are complaining about being stiffed :
"Apparently this is going on (http://rachelmarone.com/banned-from-kickstarter-for-being-a-stalking-victim.html), but there's no mention of this Kickstarter at all. I highly doubt we'll see anything soon."
Re:With all due respect... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well she's a self-defined "drama queen" [okcupid.com] :
"(originally posted by Rachel Haywire, 2/12/09)
[...]
Here is to the drama queens. Those of us who had so many issues we pushed every last person away. Here is to the drama queens. Those of us who dared to direct and star in this experience of human tragedy as opposed to blindly sit around laughing at the semi-divine comedy. Here is to those of us who refused to define our existence by a false notion of singular identity. Here is to us.
We may be your dancing monkeys but at least we are dancing. We will know each other by the scars that we wear with pride. Drama should be looked upon with utmost respect. The greater the drama the greater the person. The greater the play.
There are few things that define the existential crisis of humanity better than drama. Why be dismissive of this crisis when we can passionately engage in it?"
Re:With all due respect... (Score:5, Informative)
Hm, you're right but "Machinekunt" is one of her projects/bands whatever ("My name is Rachel Haywire and I run the alternative record label/modeling agency/fashion company machineKUNT." Rachel Haywire being the alias of Rachel Marone) so it reflects badly on her that apparently there are unfulfilled commitments. You'd have to assume Kickstarter is aware of this.
The girl seems to attract drama :
Side-line-forums [side-line.com]:
"Congrats haywire, instead of sticking it to unter null, you have turned this into a lets all hate haywire thread again, so we wont even remember what all this other crap with unter was about.
Now its about you again, aren't you happy?
Congratulations. You are clueless. Nothing you say about anyone else ever sticks, you make them look like angels, even if they are in the wrong."
Accusing people of stealing her bands work [myspace.com] and even her autobiography:
"Soon this rip-off band (not just my musical themes and vocal style but my writings in "Generation Hex" and "Acidexia") was accusing me of "stalking them" simply because I requested a peaceful resolution. It appears that they hacked my record label website, impersonated my identity through a false mirror site, and stole money from my fans. They were finally given a cease and desist letter after they pulled all this bullshit. I figured this would be the end of their harassment but I was wrong. It's a well-known fact that many cease and desist letters do not work. They only further instigate the criminals."
More drama [vampirefreaks.com]:
"Recently, there has been a situation which has come to light here on VF, something that has created alot of for many, but, makes most of the people who comment on it look terrible, as well as the person who is the perpetrator to the whole situation. Of course, I am referring to Madam Haywire, aka, Rachel Haywire, and her assault on anything she feels is a slant towards her, including TerrorFakt, and such. Now, I don't have a beef with Rach, that's first and foremost, my only beef with her was that she put out that horrid attempt at a rap song, but, from what I've been hearing, and from what I've been reading (mostly from her posts), she isn't generally hated, but, she's also not well liked.
And this is, if you go based on what a majority of users here on VF would say, mostly her fault...I don't really agree with that, because I don't know the causes to her situation with all of these folks, I wasn't there, and I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon, BUT, I am going to accuse her of enabling all of the ABUSE she has received here on VampireFreaks, simply because of the course of actions she has taken against whoever she's having a tif with. I feel that alot of what's going on, on both sides of the spectrum, is infact childish, there's no need for mudslinging, that isn't what VF was about in the first place, people need to stop...Rachel especially needs to stop!!"
Re: (Score:3)
No one is or has been stalking Rachel Mendelson (Score:5, Informative)
Rachel "Haywire" aka "Marone" aka "Mendelson" is a well known con artist, grifter and volcano of libel. She also collects an SSDI check for mental disability.
Ms. Jaeger:
It has come to my attention that Rachel Mendelson aka "Rachel Marone" aka "Rachel Haywire" aka "Transhuman X" may be allowed to use kickstarter again only 2 years after she took $3,000 with a fraudulent kickstarter effort. People are angrily posting on this page even as of a few months ago, and she has no plans to print the CD or to make any of the charitable contribution percentage she promised from this project. Please do not allow her to make any more kickstarter efforts, and defraud more people. Here is the page and the comments from people who never got their CD from her. By kickstarter's own rules, she should be required to return the donations at this point, not start a new fraudulent kickstarter campaign. She is very likely to start a new kickstarter account called 'Rachel Marone', be aware she is abusing kickstarter for financially fraudulent purposes.
Here is the link to the project that never did anything but take money:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/machinekuntrecords/sanity-is-slavery
where you can see comments of complaint from its backers:
"If you’re a backer of this project, please log in to read this post.
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Erik Roy Tomren on September 26, 2011
so when is this coming out? the hard copy version, not the download.
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Cat on February 24
It's a year after this posting, almost two years after this was funded, and I have yet to receive my hard copy of this album. Very displeased. :/
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Steve Cross on March 15
Is the hard copy ever going to appear. A further update would be nice. I am not very happy!!
"
And if it weren't enough (Score:5, Funny)
Now she got Slashdotted too.
Interesting: marketing. (Score:5, Insightful)
Now she got Slashdotted too.
Isn't that interesting?
Looking at her websites and everything, she looks like one of those artsy people that would benefit incredibly from exposure. Actually, anyone doing any sort of business on the net needs exposure to get noticed.
Over the last decade, I've become extremely cynical about things like this.
If she were really getting threats and people were posting illegal things like child pornography as she said, then the cops would be involved to go after this guy and take him out. But no. Things are continuing for some reason and here she is getting all this free publicity and hits on her website.
Read up on any of the "Gorilla Marketing" [amazon.com] type of books out there and you too will become cynical of any sort of public exposure.
From her website:
In my How Facebook Deleted My Ass article I discussed how my account was deleted because I was accused of impersonating myself.
. I don't consider FB to be that credible either, but then again, I wonder what made them come to that conclusion?
And if she is in fact truly being stalked, I blame the marketing people of the World for making public exposure of any sort a cheap way to market products, services, people, art, etc ...
After all, we do live in a World where people actually burn themselves to death to bring attention to issues. [usatoday.com] What's a little cyber-stalking?
Re:Interesting: marketing. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is really #1 question mark that pops up upon reading the story. Why is she not going to police with this? If it's such a clear cut case of long term stalking as she claims, it should be a no brainer to get police to look into it.
This has a strong whiff of publicity stunt. She claims he's openly sending child pornography to multiple people and that "police/FBI won't investigate". Now I don't know where she lives, but considering current hysteria in the West about child pornography, I find this very hard to believe.
Also, reading the stuff on the other site, she appears to actively engage in conversations with this stalker on her own. Very strange considering that police would recommend to not engage in any contact with such a stalker.
This stinks of something big and important to the whole picture is being intentionally obfuscated by complaining party.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Interesting: marketing. (Score:4, Insightful)
Ten years of "child porn and infant rape fantasies to hundreds of victims", and police "they tried and found no trails, he's too good we won't investigate"?
Are you really that naive?
Re:Interesting: marketing. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not buying into it either.
First, there's this claim [experimenthaywire.net] on her page:
That's total BS. First, you can't "hide in your basement" for 10 years to avoid being personally served with a restraining order. Hire a better process server.
Second, the police do take it seriously, especially if you have any information that can identify the person. It's how one of my cyber-stalkers ended up getting fired, despite being thousands of miles away.
So, she knows the guy - and has a bit of history with him [reddit.com]. So I'm not convinced. Not when she's lied about other stuff (like claiming her past project was booted when it was actually funded).
Then there's her complaint about Facebook.
In other words, she created a fake Facebook profile and when she couldn't prove it was hers, they locked her out of it. If she's not happy with Facebooks' policies, there's a simple solution - don't use it. If your business depends on Facebook, you have bigger problems than some random cyber-stalker.
As for Kickstarter, here's the way I see it. If they allow individuals to delete comments in a comment submission queue, then complaints will never be brought to the administrators' attention. So that's not going to work.
But judging by this comment [slashdot.org] (and following the provided link verifies it on kickstarter [kickstarter.com]), since she's lying about her past project being banned by kickstarter whe it was actually funded, what else is she lying about?
Bottom line - a liar, a publicity hound and a drama queen, with a co-dependency problem with her stalker (she needs the publicity as much as he needs to stalk), call the wambulance.
Re:Interesting: marketing. (Score:4, Insightful)
Restraining orders can be served in absentia if the party who is to be served is actively avoiding being served and the judge believes that. When the restraining order is broken, they'll arrest them, serve them with the restraining order, and if the infraction wasn't too severe, let them off with a warning since they weren't served before. If what they were doing was illegal anyway even without the retraining order, they'll be held in violation of it even though they didn't know about it.
Re:Interesting: marketing. (Score:4, Informative)
It never happened. She's mentally ill (her mother had her committed at 16), is homeless, lives off SSI, scams a few bucks whenever she can, has a history of harassing people and groups online, etc.
For a better understanding, go back a few years to this thread: http://www.side-line.com/side-line-forum/topic/beware-mentally-challenged-person-on-gothindustrial-messageboards [side-line.com]
This thread was started when one organizer finally got fed up with her online harassment (cyberstalking, false accusations) tactics and threatened to sue.
She has a LONNNG history of craziness and being banned from online forums. This is just another public melt-down by someone who needs professional help - but as she wrote, she won't go for it until everyone who has "wronged" her pays up. A real nutcase.
Re:Interesting: marketing. (Score:5, Informative)
One example - she started a petition against a competitor in the music biz, claiming they were nazi white supremists, and blog-spammed it on a bunch of forums. When people started posting comments in the petition about how one of the band members is black, she deleted them, then finally deleted the petition, all the while continuing the harassment.
She doesn't have a cyber-stalker. The whole thing was made up because she didn't produce what she promised when she got kickstarter funding a few years ago, and now that she wants to scam them again, she thinks that this will work. The real name for what she is trying to do is extortion, with kickstarter as the victim.
Judging by how many people are so "OMG this is terrible shame on kickstarter" without doing any sort of reality check - not even seeing the obvious contradictions in the story she put out on her "I'm being cyber-stalked" page, it makes me wonder.
her critics are all ACs (Score:3)
I'm not sure what to believe. Perhaps no one? I have noticed a pattern here: The most trenchant criticisms are all posted by Anonymous Cowards. GP, who are you? Why should anyone believe anything you say? Why should anyone care?
Could use some real journalism here, uncover the facts. Otherwise, all this is a waste of time.
Re:Interesting: marketing. (Score:5, Funny)
Guerrilla != gorilla. Man am I ever glad you don't work in a zoo.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The solution is simple. (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
The solution is for the people/groups with kickstarter projects to suspend operations until the problem is fixed properly. You can't fight dick moves with dick moves without becoming a dick. Kickstarter's policy of punishing the victim is absurd and it shouldn't take much to point them in the right direction.
Re: (Score:2)
The solution is clear, start posting high volumes of messages on all the other projects for supporting kickstarter, an organization that clearly supports 'cyber bullying
No, it is quite clear that they do not support cyber bullying, by refusing to provide a venue for it to continue in.
Bullying them into accommodating the cyberstalker seems to me to be counterproductive. Working to stop the stalker might be more helpful for the victim, who could then cease being a victim and move on.
But it's so nice to have someone to be outraged on behalf of, isn't it?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The solution is simple. (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't want her having her lovers' spat in their comment sections, assuming the other account isn't just her, trying to drum up attention by faking a stalker and then breaking enough Kickstarter rules by "fighting back" that she can get banned and then run to Reditt and Slashdot within seconds.
Banned from Facebook too (Score:3, Interesting)
According to her she was banned by Facebook too. Methinks there is more behind this story.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Banned from Facebook too (Score:4)
...which would've been one way of avoiding a stalker, if the 'book allowed it.
Re: (Score:2)
Facebook has enforced that rule somewhat inconsistently... So either she got caught up in one of the spasms of enforcement, or there's something more going on here. I suspect the latter because of other inconsistencies and omissions on her part.
kickstarter - run by brogrammers? (Score:2, Insightful)
the inability to comprehend the situation and the lack of enthusiasm in dealing with it in a forthright and efficient manner speaks volumes about kickstarters management culture. they sound like a bunch of incompetent buffoons.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Intentionally or recklessly engaging in a course of conduct targeted at a specific person which would cause a reasonable person in the circumstances of the targeted person to fear for such person's safety, or the safety of a member of such person's immediate family and the targeted person is actually placed in such fear
See 21-3438 [ks.gov]
So unless the Spam Harrasment is threatening physical violence you need to perform a hat trick to get any legal action unless the harassment is physical violence.
Blame Game (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Blame Game (Score:4, Informative)
Going to make an assumption here, since she's made it clear that his identity is not known.
She has? Seems just the opposite from her own posts on kickstarter, actually.
"As you all know I have a rockin' tight ass, a successful project on Kickstarter that you've all funded, and a cyberstalker that goes by the name of FrankSinatraDirtyTalker1915@comcast.net.
I originally met "Frank" back in College, where we dated for a bit. I should point out that he's not an old man, as his username might imply, but rather someone who is simply obsessed with Frank Sinatra and my gorgeous rockin hard ass.
Anyway, when I broke up with him he took it pretty badly. It was our Sophomore year at Rice University and I had just discovered gravity bongs and going down on another girl while blazed out of my gord. As I've admitted, these were confusing albeit fun times for me."
It goes on, and only gets weirder. Apparently a significant fraction of the bizarre posts on her kickstarter page were her own. I was as indignant as everyone else when I read the misleading /. summary, but after a couple minutes of digging I think kickstarter was right to ban her... (and that's not even getting into the fact that many "supporters" seem to have complained that she is just taking their money for her own personal use...)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't blame the website for not wanting to put up with your baggage. Blame the stalker. Take legal matters in your own hands and go after him/her.
Its not HER FAULT. Anyone can stalk a person online or real life for whatever fucking twisted reason is going on in their head. Hell, you can even do it here and mod people down, etc. And taking matters to the law doesnt solve anything. They can just do it AC online. This is a site programming issue and should have been addressed as such. By their words and lack of fucking action all they are doing is "Slut Shaming" her and it has rightly backfired.
Re: (Score:2)
Don't blame the website for not wanting to put up with your baggage. Blame the stalker. Take legal matters in your own hands and go after him/her.
And while she does that she's supposed to put her whole life on hold ? The wheels of justice don't turn that fast.
Why must there be comments? (Score:2)
Re:Why must there be comments? (Score:4, Insightful)
I could see allowing comments as a way of giving accountability to projects. If, for example, someone failed to deliver on a project, being able to comment would be very helpful.
Re: (Score:3)
This. So much this.
Not allowing comments is what would allow projects like projektor to just get dozens of iThing fans to pledge for it without realizing they're being had.
There should be a mechanism to deal with abusive comments, though - but that requires somebody at KickStarter to actually work through submissions in that mechanism, and assumes it won't get abused by people going "I have what I believe is a unique product, but this commenter posted everybody to an e-bay auction that sells something simi
Appalling, but not actually surprising. (Score:5, Interesting)
This is absolutely ridiculous. I'm simply appalled that they would even SAY THAT. I'm not really that surprised though, as I've been on the receiving end of Kickstarter's questionable behavior as well.
I submitted a Kickstarter for a generic USBHID interface board (For making game controllers and input devices, though it really had tons of applications) and they rejected it for no reason. When pressed for an explanation, they said "Kickstarter is for creative arts projects and [my] project did not fit."
So, I guess having a DOZEN Kickstarters for Arduino clones going at any given time is okay, but if someone wants to make something that hasn't been run into the ground yet, fuck 'em! I mean, wow! I was only trying to get $500 together!
Re: (Score:2)
God d*mn, man. That DOES suck, a lot.
For the record, I *can* think of a lot of uses for such a board (I want to power-mod my cheap android WM8650 tablet, and that's exactly what I need!). I would have donated. I'd love to know if you are able to get it up. I am not in a position for hefty donations but I sure will try to help, or purchase the end product.
KickStarter is not the only player (Score:3, Informative)
KickStarter is not the only player - just saying.
In no particular order (actually, alphabetical, but in no order of preference.. except for that of the alphabet.. nnngh!)
boostive ckie crowdbackers crowdfunder eightbitfunding (games, not really applicable to your project) fundageek fundit fundry indiegogo investedin kickstarter peerbackers pleasefundus pledgie pozible quirky rockethub sponsorcraft sponsume ulule wefund
There's more, but most of them are very 'fund-my-life' or are platforms that are quite dead
Women card... Tanuki's law: She lost. (Score:2)
Kickstarter, throw her out, whether she deserves it, or not.
It's her own fault (Score:3, Insightful)
While I think that Kickstarter could have handled it better; read the article on her website.
She got spam comments and she replied to them. She claims that she was being stalked and she recognised the stalker: why reply ? Just report them. You're not supposed to feed trolls.
It is clear the reason she got kicked off because she got interacted with the spammer and was part of the problem.
And WTF is a "transmedia artist" ? She uses various media, multimedia ?
Re:It's her own fault (Score:5, Funny)
And WTF is a "transmedia artist" ? She uses various media, multimedia ?
She is a painter trapped in the body of a sculptor?
For all (Score:2)
I know kickstarter is going to get a lot of negative feelings about this, but I can't blame them for their decision. Look at all the crazy lawsuits that happen and succeed... such as a person suing the owner of the house they are robbing, after they injure themselves during the crime... there is a chance that if they allowed a project to go forward, knowing that it could provide a new forum for cyberstalking against someone with a long history or it, then kickstarter risks a liability lawsuit.
This isn't dis
bs? (Score:5, Interesting)
Kickstarter may have made the right call.
Reddit uncovered some more info about her, that doesn't paint her in a very good light:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3840589 [ycombinator.com]
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/s97g4/banned_from_kickstarter_for_being_a_stalking/c4c5j7r [reddit.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Very interesting. And most of the /. crowd fell for it.
Here is a relevant posting by the "victim" (Score:5, Informative)
I originally met "Frank" back in College, where we dated for a bit. I should point out that he's not an old man, as his username might imply, but rather someone who is simply obsessed with Frank Sinatra and my gorgeous rockin hard ass.
Anyway, when I broke up with him he took it pretty badly. It was our Sophomore year at Rice University and I had just discovered gravity bongs and going down on another girl while blazed out of my gord. As I've admitted, these were confusing albeit fun times for me.
Meanwhile, "Frank" was raised as a Mormon but had recently converted to Scientology. I guess you might say he was experimenting with his own hallucinogenic homoerotic drug. This drug/sex/cult cocktail, combined with my round pulchritudinous derriere, and the sudden shock of losing his ability to play his daily role of dressing up as Dr. Parnassus while gently fondling my perky nipples and supple breasts that he had affectionately named the Merry Mammary Sisters of Nippopolis, and Queens of the Breastiary - led to Frank's complete mental breakdown.
I don't blame Frank for my rockin body, just as I don't blame you for being attracted to my intelligence and funding my project on Kickstarter. However, what I do not like is being stalked. I hope you all do what I do when you see Frank's messages on any thread related to my project. Just lick your index finger, point it at Frank's username and then say, "Ooooooooooooo ICE COLD! Mama thinks you're a BAAAAD BOYYYY! OOOOOO Ice Cold..." then point the same finger back at your left nipple and make a sizzling sound "SSSSSssssssssssss" and sing this little rap
Thank you all again for funding my project on Kickstarter. You're clearly invested in a winner!
also relevant:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3840589 [ycombinator.com]
Re: (Score:3)
How do you know this was posted by the same person, besides "Kevin-Roses-Left-Nut" word?
Justification on the part of the website (Score:2)
My first impression of the situation described in the summary is it sounds somewhat similar to a web host shutting down a user's account because their site was a magnet for DDoS attacks - a response which would be uncontroversial. Another analogy that comes to mind is the removal of users' comments in a discussion forum, following a legal threats to the site operator.
The fundamental similarity in all three circumstances seems to be the website operator not wanting to deal with a website user's "baggage", as
Trying for her second 15 minutes of fame? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been reading her PR. It looks like she did a small arts festival, and wants to do something else. She's tried being in a band, writing magazine articles, modeling, and organizing events. But no one is paying attention. There's little about her written by anyone else.
Sometimes she gets it right. Read her "John Galt is homeless" [hplusmagazine.com], a brief reply to Ayn Rand. "We need to face the fact that Randian capitalism is no longer a way to advance oneself but a way to make oneself poor. The roles have now been reversed and it is no longer survival-of-the-fittest but survival-of-the-most-willing-to-please."
I've met so many people like that in the SF art scene. They're wild, crazy, fun, and can't quite make it. They tend to end up bitter by age 35.
It's not all about her (Score:3)
Kickstarter doesn't accept all projects. It accepts those that are likely to succeed, and will reflect well on itself, and by proxy future projects. If her project is inundated by a stalker, then it doesn't reflect well on Kickstarter or its other projects.
Now, what actions could Kickstarter take to rectify this?
It could assign staff to moderate the project. Her project appears small, in the low three figures. Kickstarter takes only 5%, so their revenue is in the tens of dollars. A dedicated stalker can easily dodge automated blocking and tie up more resources than is financially viable for them to dedicate to her project. Thus, this is not an option.
Kickstarter could decide not to accept pre paid/gift credit cards and thus prevent the stalker from simply buying a new, $10 card each time his account gets banned. Not only would this cost Kickstarter many orders of magnitude more than her project could bring in, it would marginalize millions of people who do not have another way to contribute to the communities that use Kickstarter, many of whom are already vulnerable people with little socioeconomic power. Clearly, this is not an option.
Kickstarter could ban comments, or allow project managers to delete comments. This would stifle the communities involvement with the project, and potentially allow project managers to sweep legitimate problems under the rug. This would diminish the trust the public might be willing to grant other projects. It would be irresponsible to choose this optio Even requiring a credit card and a $1 contribution to commentn.
That leaves the unfortunate final option to decline to host her project until the matter can be resolved. It most certainly is not her fault, but it isn't Kickstarter's either.
She's got mental problems (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:typical female rational (Score:5, Insightful)
"i represent an unbearable burden on some system and am upset that they won't accomidate me"
You're an idiot and should be kicked in the nuts.
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I see. And the stalker who's actually doing all the spamming? Gets away free, right?
Oh yeah, that's fair.
Screw kickstarters and go somewhere else, or assume an alias.
Re:typical female rational (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know how "typical"/common-to-type, but I too smell a whiner. 10 years of cyberstalking isn't harassment, it is symbiosis. "Co-dependency" in PC-speak. I find it beyond incredible that a computer-savvy person would be stalked that long without identification and intervention by law enforcement.
OTOH, any site that complains of spamming needs to require registration or grow a pair. The cost of allowing anon is some spam tolerence, or filters of some sort. Banning positive contributors (is she?) enters the death spiral -- rewarding bad behaviour.
Re:typical female rational (Score:5, Insightful)
She makes claims that "police say he's too good for them and FBI won't investigate". Something I personally find very hard to believe considering she's claiming that he's systemically sending "her and hundreds of other victims child porn and infant rape fantasies".
Someone who doesn't fuck up when massively sending crap like that to hundreds of recipients for a decade? That's inhuman. And on top of the cake, her letters with the moderators clearly state that she actively talked to this stalker on their site.
Re:typical female rational (Score:5, Interesting)
I find it completely credible that stalking could go on for a long time and that law enforcement wouldn't help at all. Many years ago my girlfriend had a stalker. He was leaving weird messages on her car at home and at work and showed signs of escalating like messages on her bedroom window, which was in the back of the house. We went to the police with the notes, a summary of when and where things had been done as well as the text of the law against stalking and they refused to take a report. Her employer didn't like someone coming on to their property to harass an employee, so they had one of their attorneys do all of the paperwork and force the police to take a report. The guy was identified and convicted of stalking. Stalking is ignored by law enforcement until after the victim is raped or killed, then it can be used as evidence of pre-meditation.
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Actually, not that surprised.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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No mod points at the min - so will ask a question :)
Is this taken from another quote? [please excuse my ignorance - am genuinely interested]
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First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left t
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You bloody trade unionist bastard!
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Yes and no... It comes from a 1955 book about the rise of and life under the Nazi's.
Wikipedia has a decent [wikipedia.org] if superficial article on the phrase.
Re:First they came for the women (Score:5, Insightful)
People who avoid victims because they don't want to deal with the fallout are the worst kind of cowards. And in your hypothetical situation the answer is easy - just like in this situation with kickstarter.
What the people running the service have done is send a world wide message that anyone can control their service by destroying projects at will.
Of course they will back track very soon. They'll have to, but the mind reels trying to figure out how they did not see this correctly in the first place.
Re:First they came for the women (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't mean to be an ass, but that's a natural survival instinct. You don't get into the fight between people you don't know unless you see with absolute certainty that one is a victim. And even then, things are often not as they would seem from the first glance.
That's what police is for in modern society. If you can stop the immediate fight, do it, but get authorities involved. Not yourself. Which is what the site in question did, it stopped the immediate fight by banning the account and informed the known active party (note that she actively participated in those spam threads) that this behaviour will be stopped and that she should not engage in it again if she doesn't want that fight being stopped by banning again.
I honestly don't see anything done wrong. Sure, if it's really as bad as the woman says, it's terrible for her and she should go to the police and really file a complaint with copies of "child porn and infant rape fantasies" she claims she's being sent. But it's not other people's job to take significant commercial losses because she chooses to take the fight to their shop. They also have a right to conduct business without such fights
Re:First they came for the women (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, she's lying.
On her website, she makes 2 contradictory claims on the same page [experimenthaywire.net]:
and
So, the police can't track him down even though she has his address to try to serve him with restraining orders for 10 years? (never mind that you can't "duck" being served a restraining order for 10 years - you just go back to court, convince the judge that the person is actively seeking to not being served, they publish the notice in the paper that an order affecting them has been deposited with the court, end of story).
This is so obviously a complete fake ... but let's now throw in this - from the same page
She used a new sock-puppet account to post this on reddit, and simultaneously submitted it anonymously here, as her latest self-promotion campaign, and/or to try to get kickstarter to let her do another project despite not delivering on her last one, even though it was funded.
The problem of cyber-stalking is real enough. Just not in this phony case.
Re:First they came for the women (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:First they came for the women (Score:5, Informative)
Not just likely. She's been doing it for years and years ...
http://www.side-line.com/side-line-forum/topic/beware-mentally-challenged-person-on-gothindustrial-messageboards#post-19422 [side-line.com]She accuses a band of being Nazi white supremists, starts up an online petition against them, and on the petition, deletes comments that point out one of the band members is black.
And then this current round of self-promotion, spammed to reddit (the original post was a sock-puppet account, quickly deleted) and here (anon submission at the same time), with some lies about being cyber-stalked, which she describes here: http://experimenthaywire.net/is-there-a-solution-to-cyberstalking/ [experimenthaywire.net]
On the one hand, she claims that the guy has been sitting in his basement for a decade ducking restraining orders (which isn't how it works); a few paragraphs down, she says the cops can't locate him. I'm sure the police have access to a street map.
She got funded by kickstarter a few years ago, didn't deliver what was promised, and now claims that she was banned because she's been cyber-stalked. It's more likely that her history of over-the-top behaviour directed at so many people brought all the negative comments, and her "don't believe them, it's all from one crazy cyber-stalker using multiple identities and impersonating everyone in the music industry" was her way of trying to avoid the consequences.
Re:First they came for the women (Score:5, Interesting)
Hey I have a guy that follows me around and vandalizes the building I live in. Can I stay at your place?
Sure. I live in Texas. We have the Castle Doctrine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine [wikipedia.org] I own several guns. Bring chips.
Note that arrest is also possible.
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With an average [statemaster.com] death rate compared with other states, the Castle Doctrine doesn't appear to be making much of difference.
Nice law though - invite someone into your home, and blow their head off. Claim they had broken in. Profit!
Re:First they came for the women (Score:5, Funny)
Sure. I live in Texas.
Cool
I own several guns.
That was assumed from the previous statement. In fact I thought it was mandatory.
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I had occasion to fly into Ft. Worth some time back, and was struck by the fact that then, a couple of years AFTER 9/11, they apparently found it necessary to have signs instructing everyone not to bring their guns in the airport.
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Indeed. It is up to the police and judicial system to stop her stalkers, not her employer to accommodate it continuing.
It's not like she hasn't been given time by her employer already, but at some point they have to put the foot down and say "no more".
Yes, she's a victim. But she also seems unwilling to or incapable of leaving the role of a victim. I hope I am wrong, and that she pursues justice with as much vigor as the stalker pursues her, and that in 2012, the stalking will end.
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Apologies for any confusion this might have caused.
"Employer" has many meanings - it's not just the person who pays your wages or salary, but also who provides you with an opportunity to or facilities for doing the work, or supervises it.
Those who use my software are in one sense my employers, and when I work on a project under the umbrella of a distro, they are in many ways my employer, for lack of a better word. They can request and OK my work, and certainly should supervise it.
And stop accommodating me
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But it seems like kickstarter has a service that's vulnerable to a fairly simple attack. Unless this stalker controls a huge botnet, how much spam posts can he really make on their forum? Why not let her moderate her forum to see if it gets out of hand?
And don't they have any sort of anti-abuse systems? Limit posts per day. Wait X minutes before another post. Per user limits. Per IP limits. Captchas. Moderated sub-forum that requires posts to be allowed. There are quite a number of options.
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Unless this stalker controls a huge botnet, how much spam posts can he really make on their forum?
Do not underestimate the obsessive. Example, one dutch woman stalked a guy and called him 65000 times in a year [go.com] :
"A look at the statistical breakdown of the woman’s phone-calling habits sheds light on the multiple cellphones seized in the raid of her home.
To reach 65,000 calls, the woman had to have called 178 times a day. That’s nearly eight calls an hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week or one phone call every eight minutes, without ever stopping."
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Kickstarter should view this as a chance to build up their defenses, if the spam flood comes. When will they get around to doing that, when they've grown large, about to issue an IPO, or sell to someone? It seems to me that they're sticking their heads in the sand a bit in this instance.
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Ah, the crowd mind. It never ceases to boggle the mind how the sum of us can be so more stupid than any individual.
If you want to contact someone, contact the police and politicians, who are in a position to get the stalking stopped.
Instead the hive mind wants Kickstarter to accommodate the stalker. How clever.
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And who's going to sit down with local PD detectives and spend 2 hours explaining to them how anyone can send an email as billclinton@whitehouse.gov and not actually be the former president?
Re:down (Score:4, Interesting)
Instead the hive mind wants Kickstarter to accommodate the stalker. How clever.
No one want Kickstarter to accommodate the stalker. How about they put a little effort into blocking the spam ? What kind of internet startup can't deal with a spam problem ? Blaming the victim because your system isn't set up to deal with abuse is out of order.
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Stalking isn't the same as spam, trust me.
Not jumping through hoops to do what a victim wants isn't blaming the victim.
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I f I'm received at your house for dinner and someone comes knocking the door to threaten me, well, it's your house. You're the owner and entitled to defend it -- not a visitor like me. And no, it's no solution to push me outside so the stalker can go with what is wanted (btw, this would be very coward, like others say).>/quote>
Not inviting you a second time unless you have had the problem taken care of seems to me to be a sensible thing to do. And what Kickstarter did.
And not inviting you ever again, problem solved or not, if you weren't upfront about the danger to my home the first time around. Kickstarter hasn't been that uncompromising. I would be.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Hey keep your stalkers and pedos for yourself. We have plenty of our own here...