TomTom Flames OpenStreetMap 345
An anonymous reader writes "TomTom Navigation has a recently launched article on what they call the 'negative aspects' of open data projects such as OpenStreetMap. As there are no hard facts and details to the studies they refer, the OSM community identified this release as classic 'Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.'"
We're better because we do the same thing! (Score:5, Insightful)
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FTFA: "We harness the local knowledge of our 60 million satnav customers, who can make corrections through TomTom Map Share." So... open mapping projects are worse than their closed mapping product because their closed mapping product is collaboratively edited by the users... Nice argument.
Absolutely, and surely TomTom and openstreetmaps have some method of sorting out the rubbish that comes in. i.e. multiple entries checked against each other and any ones outside the norm are thrown out.
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I don't know how TomTom is vetting their user-supplied corrections (if at all).
In case of OSM however anyone can add anything to the map, and it's published right away. I have contributed various hiking trails to their map, and they became available on the online maps instantly (only delay is caused by their tile rendering). I have not tried to e.g. wipe a motorway or so just to see what happens, but it seems that is possible.
Like Wikipedia, a full history is kept of all parts of the map, so any removals ca
Re:We're better because we do the same thing! (Score:5, Informative)
Essentially OSM works on the principle of "with enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow". There are cases of vandalism in OSM, but they don't last very long; the community usually picks them up rapidly and reverts them.
We have one advantage over Wikipedia in that it's easier for us to determine what's right. On Wikipedia, if one contributor says "John Doe's contribution to scholarship was important" and another says "no it wasn't", you get an edit war. On OSM, if one mapper says "this road is called Market Street" and another says "this road is called Market Road", we just go and look at the street sign. The rule is "what's on the ground". (The one place where this breaks down is disputed territorial borders, such as Northern Cyprus and Kashmir, but there are procedures in place for that.)
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The same is true of closed maps too, try comparing Vladivostok on Google Maps [goo.gl] to on OpenStreetMaps [osm.org].
More so, if you feel that an area doesn't have enough coverage, sure that's a pain the first time you go there, but once you've been there, and know what's going on, just add it to the map, and bam, coverage improved :)
Re:We're better because we do the same thing! (Score:4, Interesting)
Uh, TomTom doesn't even exist in Japan. At least I've never seen one in my 13+ years of driving here, and I can't find ANY information about TomTom being available or usable in Japan.
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Sounds like it's time for someone to risk taking more direct action... maybe something like this: An artist disguised as a state employee takes a direct approach to correcting guide signs on the California freeway system [ankrom.org]...
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Who cares, except Captain Obvious? (Score:5, Insightful)
The motives are obvious, the critique is not very specific, everyone who is using OSM does realize their limitations, and anyone who is using mapping software and gets in trouble because they prioritize the mapping data over what they can see with their own eyes should not be on the road anyway.
Too bad for Tomtom, but they stopped to be relevant quite a few years ago.
No kidding (Score:5, Insightful)
They should worry more about Google maps/navigation. You get a smartphone with that on it, and suddenly a Tomtom doesn't seem like a good buy anymore. My mom has a Tomtom because she could practically get lost driving on a straight road, and it has worked well. However it has nothing on my smartphone with Google on it. Reason is that the smartphone can (and does) fetch map data in realtime. I don't have to remember to load maps for where I'm going and they'll be as up to date as Google has at the moment.
In terms of other features like plotting a route talking you through things and so on they both work fine.
That's their real threat. Anyone who has a newish Android smartphone already has this, and I have to presume it is available on all other platforms. It's free and it works well. You don't have to remember to bring anything with you, other than your phone which you probably already have. Heck even if you don't have the app you can download it in the field.
Between that and cars with built in nav systems, I can't see them having a market for much longer. Stand alone GPS units are going to be the kind of things that hikers use, if you are on a roadway your car, phone, or both will already have you covered.
Offline maps still vital (Score:5, Insightful)
Reason is that the smartphone can (and does) fetch map data in realtime.
Yes it does, which is great right up until you are in an area with really poor data.
On any smartphone I will always have at least one offline mapping app, so that I can find things around me (or how to get out) even if data connections fail.
You can alleviate that to some degree with caching (which Google Maps does) but it still doesn't help if you want to search for something new or run into an area the caching did not anticipate.
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Nokia owns one of the biggest mapping companies around, navteq. It has navtec maps with lifetime free upgrades in some really cheap older smartphones, for example nokia 5230. That's full offline maps of entire world with free lifetime upgrades as well as walk and drive tun by turn voiced navigation. You can get that phone used for a couple of dosen EUR nowadays, and it usually comes with a car stand to boot. Then you just set it up and use it as a navigator. Way cheaper then dedicated tomtom navigator, and
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On any smartphone I will always have at least one offline mapping app, so that I can find things around me (or how to get out) even if data connections fail.
What do you do if it's cloudy out and you run out of electricity? Besides the gyro-compass and communication features a smartphone makes for terrible survival gear.
I keep a laminated map next to my towel and homing pigeon, it makes great umbrella, the towel needs no explanation, and if I'd rather stay in than get out, I've got a meal.
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Maps on Android doesn't fetch data just in time, it caches ahead a little ways. You can also specifically tell it to pre-cache whatever section of map you like ahead of time.
I find it doesn't matter anyway, because the places were you find you've know data are usually the same areas that you don't need detailed instructions in - e.g., highways through rural areas. And it doesn't matter, because it will still have the instructions to get to get off on to a different highway.
I've driven all around the east (
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I agree, except your examples of data coverage. I have T-Mobile and the Google map have crapped out on me in the middle of New Mexico. I admit New Mexico is a tough state for online navigation. Remember you can only cache the amount of data your smartphone can hold, and of course your milage may vary.
Also Google maps has poor navigation when compared with MapQuest and other mapping software. My biggest complaint with Google Navigation with an Android phone is that Google doesn't do adequate filtering of t
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You can alleviate that to some degree with caching (which Google Maps does) but it still doesn't help if you want to search for something new or run into an area the caching did not anticipate.
I have a cache of Paper Maps.
The Paper Map App is large, hard to search, and rarely up to date.
But it's always there
Re:No kidding (Score:5, Insightful)
Sometimes it is useful to have a local copy of a map with you, incase you are in an area with no cell coverage or a foreign country where roaming charges would make using online maps uneconomical.
Re:No kidding (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually this is where osmand app (based on openstreetmap) comes in. You dont have to be connected, and is very user friendly in terms of downloading & updating maps. An android phone with Google Maps Navigation and osmand app, is way better than a TomTom.
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Which isn't Tomtom's market (Score:3)
I'm not trying to say that smartphone navigation will take over the world. I knew a bunch of people would respond ascribing me that position right after I posted but oh well. I'm saying that it will take over Tomtom's market.
The Tomtom isn't a device that hikers, surveyors, etc buy. It something you buy to get GPS in your car. It is designed around the idea of car sat nav. Well guess what? When you are sticking to city streets, cell coverage is usually pretty good. Even if it drops for a second, it'll pick
Applies to them too? (Score:5, Interesting)
The oddest part, to me, is that they kind of admit to the same issues in TFA:
Our map-makers are real experts, many having over 20 years' experience in the field. And we harness the local knowledge of our 60 million satnav customers, who can make corrections through TomTom Map Share.
Surely a disgruntled employee can be do a better job at keeping disgruntled users in check, than a community of volunteers...
Re:Applies to them too? (Score:5, Interesting)
TomTom uses their customers input as recommendations for changes, which are then vetted by their experts. OSM users act as their experts relying on self-policing and trust.
Surely, even Slashdot readers can understand the difference.
-dZ.
Open Street Maps vs Commercial Maps.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Greetings and Salutations;
Well, I have been editing and contributing to OpenStreetMap for several years now, and, I have to say that while there is a point to the criticism, in general, I would disagree with their analysis. It is a bit too self-serving for my taste. I do not own a TomTom, but, have had a couple of Garmins, and, have used a TomTom unit before. The commercial maps have been no better than the Open Source maps, and in several cases have been far less accurate. There are a number of places here in East Tennessee where the commercial maps have the GPS insisting that I am driving through the fields on the side of the road.
One point where Open Street Map shines is that it has actual roads and trails in such places as National Parks and forests...where the commercial maps have nothing but blank green areas.
Re:Open Street Maps vs Commercial Maps.... (Score:5, Interesting)
I checked out OpenStreetMap maybe 12 months ago with the full intention of correcting my local area. I had a mental image of 15km2 that I could help with.
I was extremely disapointed. Not only was my local area perfect compared to Google and Microsoft, it also told me where the drain covers were located. It kid, but it had far more info than I could ever hope to gather myself.
OpenStreetMap needs to advertise.
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hey, don't get turned away by that - you can always participate in mapping parties, collect minor data (did your region really have all post boxes & fire hydrants ? ;) ), update things that change (new/closed roads, shops opening/closing etc).
also, in some regions so called "armchair mapping" is actually welcome - that is, mapping areas where you might have never been on the ground, from imagery. most notably that could help in the usa, outside cities.
Re:Open Street Maps vs Commercial Maps.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Yep. For example, here [openstreetmap.org] is a place in the Alps in openstreetmap, and here [google.com] is the same place in google maps, and here [tomtom.com] is the same thing in routes.tomtom.com. Only openstreetmap shows the hiking trail (as well as peaks with their elevations, and mountain huts). This is a really good thing for hikers, runners and mountain bikers.
You can also get topo maps based on OSM data from toposm.com, although this still seems pretty primitive and they only cover the US. Google's maps with contour shading are OK, but they don't let you print them through their web interface (although you can always print a screenshot), and they don't show contour lines.
What isn't so great about OSM is that driving directions from yournavigation.org are not usable at all. Also, the search functionality is (not surprisingly) inferior to the one in google maps -- if you don't put in exactly the right form of the name, it doesn't work.
Another great Open Street Map feature: (Score:3)
Another tremendous Open Street Map feature is that we get the data. When I need a map specific to my needs (treasure hunt for the kids, map for a flyer, etc.), I go to open street map, download the map as an SVG, open it in Inkscape, add/remove features, crop, edit to taste, save as PDF, mail and/or print.
Thank you, Open Street Map!
Please keep thinking and watch the road(signs). (Score:5, Insightful)
"Many drivers rely heavily on satellite navigation for precise directions, and mapping errors can be extremely dangerous, particularly in the case of one-way streets."
I see people using these commercial quality navigation units every day and still they take stupid actions like driving into a oneway street and making last second turns (right... left, NO RIGHT swerving all over the road) while spending more time looking at their statnav than on the road. Turn by turn navigation is dangerous by itself when used blindly no matter what maps are being used, they induce a near total lack of anticipation of traffic.
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pretty tame "fud" (Score:5, Insightful)
Basically they say that they provide more "quality control" than OSM, and that people should check their electronic map, this is not false...
The arguments are very similar to the ones the various encyclopedias offered (and still offer if they haven't disapeared yet) against wikipedia.
But they do recognize value in OSM, so I guess they are more into thinking how in the future leverage OSM, after all the real competition to tomtom is not OSM but google map or bing map on the mobile phones....
They should focus on lowering the price of their hardware, who will pay at least 150€ for a satnav, when they can have something similar for 19€ on an android phone.
(since they need the phone subscription anyway, and yes the tomtom is probably "better", but 130€ buys quite a lot of gasoline, even at current prices).
Maybe they'll bring out a 50€ android + osm based navigator, and offer some fun "add ons"
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Actually the TomTom device usually is worse than the iPhone/Android versions due to not so polished UI and lesser hardware (slower cpu, less memory etc).
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Actually, I have a TomTom, but I do not have a phone subscription. And amazingly I'm getting by in life at least as well as the average phone subscriber.
TomTom geek employee (Score:3, Interesting)
I am ashamed of our marketing department
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Good.
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Another one here. It's really a geek company. No coincidence that we're still using Linux after that quarrel with Microsoft. E.g. the ext3 on top of FAT trick we pulled (workaround for the Microsoft patent) is open sourced on both the PC/Mac and device side.
That said, TomTom does have a point here, it's just Marketing that's unable to explain it (again :( ). We do have far, far more data to go on than OSM. TomTom Traffic requires that you send your position to receive the local traffic jams, but that inform
Good ol' TomTom (Score:5, Insightful)
I bought a WinCE PDA with TomTom back when they first appeared.
I later got a new version of the TT software for the same PDA.
Later I bought a TomTom device (still a WinCE PDA, but only running TT).
Then I bought an Android phone and... TT didn't have an app, so I got a different brand.
TT's enemy isn't some open mapping service, it's their own failure to adapt to the changing world around them.
Says something else... (Score:5, Interesting)
The fact that Tomtom feels the need to bring up OSM says to me that OSM is now a credible competitive threat to them. The business model of selling maps for use on gps units is rapidly becoming obsolete, they can either try to fight it and become increasingly irrelevant, or adapt...
Incidentally, what i dislike about tomtom is that having bought the device, i needed a code to register my map, and this code was on a tiny sticker attached to the sleeve of a cd that came in the box... When my sdcard died, i replaced it, reloaded the software and map, only for it to refuse to work unless i entered the code. I still have the physical device, but have no idea where the code is (most likely lost) so am left with a relatively expensive device that i now cannot use via official channels.
Ofcourse, i simply found a crack online which allowed me to use the device i paid for without the tiny strip of paper containing an arbitrary code.
Hard Facts (Score:4, Interesting)
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Which was caused by a firmware error in a Broadcom chip used in several products. Firmware was made by Broadcom, not TomTom.
Tomtom can get stuffed (Score:5, Insightful)
The one thing that sticks in my mind about Tomtom: when they got sued by Microsoft, the open source community rallied round. But did they ever bother making the minimal effort to distribute a Linux client, perhaps to show appreciation if nothing else? Appreciation not just for the support they got against Microsoft but for giving them a free platform to build their business on? No. Too much to ask, apparently. As far as I am concerned, Tomtom can fuck themselves.
Oh, and when I lost my Tomtom I did not replace it, I bought a Garmin.
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(TomTom employee here) Please Please let our marketing people know this. Just like TFA they're also fucking up the Linux release. The whole PC software has been rewritten from scratch to eliminate anything proprietary or platform-dependent. The biggest problem in porting it to RHEL/Itanium would probably be the dependency on a USB Ethernet class driver for Itanium hardware ;)
Let's distinguish here (Score:5, Interesting)
I have been working with digital map data for on advanced driver assistance applications for a few years, and my experience is the following:
Some applications want lots of data. They don’t care if it is perfect or not, such as whether there is a zebra crossing, a traffic light, a stair, a path for mountain bike but not for road bike, etc. One example of this is navigation: it doesn’t matter if the turn has an error of 10 meter, if it is 10 or 25 degrees to the right, etc.
Other applications they are fine with less data, but this must be absolutely accurate to within a meter. Examples of this are active-safety applications, such as map-based adaptive front lighting, curve warning, etc.
Some other applications are in the middle. They are not very sensitive, but annoying if incorrect: example of this is speed limit warning.
The biggest map vendors collect hundreds of attributes at very high quality. This is true particularly for low-number functional classes (highways and motorways). They often meet the 5-m absolute and 1-m relative accuracy for geometry.
It is very difficult for OSM to meet this high quality, specially because you need a differential GPS (DGPS) to collect these. That said, map vendors invest most of their effort on large important roads, while rural or off-roads have from low to very poor quality.
Moreover, one thing is the quality at which data is collected, and another one is the map quality. Vendors tend to decimate (strip-out) geometry points on non important roads in order to reduce the size of the map.
So to sum up: if you are on a motorway or highway, OSM probably won’t match the quality of Navteq, Teleatlas or Google. If you are on a rural area, off-road, bike trail, etc., OSM will probably kick everyone’s butt. Plus it is usually more up-to-date.
TomTom tries to close this gap with their community content, which I find very dishonest from them. They save millions by using people’s data, but they don’t pass these savings back to the consumer.
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It is very difficult for OSM to meet this high quality, specially because you need a differential GPS (DGPS) to collect these.
If they have a means of averaging all the different GPS tracks they receive to produce their data, that wouldn't matter so much. You could even crowdsource this ; have a task list for people who are registered as "Open Street Mappers" in a particular region to go and recollect given data points to improve their accuracy.
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If they have a means of averaging all the different GPS tracks they receive to produce their data, that wouldn't matter so much. You could even crowdsource this ; have a task list for people who are registered as "Open Street Mappers" in a particular region to go and recollect given data points to improve their accuracy.
waze.com does exactly this. They put small "goodies" shaped as candy on the streets that needs more data points, and users go there to collect the candy and help improve the map.
Magic (Score:2)
The problem, as I see it, is that the non-tech savvy have already realised that computers are just machines and fail all the time (just like any other extremely complex piece of machinery).
What many people fail to grasp is that a GPS is also just a computer (and thereby a machine). People seem to view it as "the magic map box that was invented at Hogwarts", and view the underlying technology as being satellites that sense where you are and feed you the right picture. Heck, they even talk about "the Google s
Screw you, TomTom (Score:5, Insightful)
I've made the mistake of buying U.S. maps from TomTom twice. Fooled me twice, so shame on me.
In both cases, I needed TomTom to get me to hotels in the south east, where the hotels are located on roads that were created about 3-4 years ago. Google Maps had the roads, but even the most recent update of TomTom did not.
So I emailed TomTom and I was like, hey, your maps are really stale regarding this address. Their response? "Here's how you can correct our maps."
Excuse me, but I'm not paying ~ $50 for the privilege of correcting your maps. If I take the time to show you where your maps are wrong, and I can point your customer support people to the correct data on Google Maps, you do the damn work of updating your fscking maps.
I've found TomTom quite useful over the past few years, but I really can't see continuing my business relationship with them.
Re:Screw you, TomTom (Score:4, Insightful)
Your problem is likely not with their maps, but with their business model. Tomtom earns money by selling map UPDATES.
Waze (Score:2)
This attack was mainly targeted at Waze (surpassed Twitter (!) in the App Store), which has around 20 million users, and becoming a real threat - OSM navigation is not nearly that popular (yet?).
my town (Score:4, Informative)
The law of unintended consequences (Score:4, Funny)
You don't say! (Score:4, Funny)
I have to actually LOOK at the road I'm driving on? I can't simply go down the flooded road 'cause my navi says it's all right?
What's next? First they want me to pay attention to the traffic, now this! Driving sure gets more complicated every day.
Article image is from The Crowdfunding Revolution (Score:3)
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would hope a self-driving cars use data from it's immediate surroundings to make decisions and just use a GPS as a navigational device that can be overridden by irl factors on the ground. It wouldn't even have to be sabotage that overrides a gps, just your avg Cop/Fireman blocking off a street temporarily.
IMO, people are bigger dangers. Especially in a situation like where faulty data will lead a GPS will tell them to turn the wrong way on a one way street and they don't really check. I have a friend that obeys the things blindly. I know the GPS is screwing up and using a route that may look good on paper but is utterly long irl compared to some shortcuts the locals know. But no, she never listens. The GPS says so and it must be followed. She's the type to veer into oncoming traffic on a one way street if, fate forbid, her GPS screw up majorly one day.
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TomTom is clearly referring to the case where OpenStreetMap caught Google contractors vandalising OSM.
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The funny thing is, Google tried to sabotage Open Street maps (like the article notes):
TomTom is clearly referring to the case where OpenStreetMap caught Google contractors vandalising OSM.
What was offtopic about that? Looks like a Googler drove by with mod points. Remember Googlers: don't be evil. Your trust based business model depends on it. And know that some of you are indeed evil:
Two OpenStreetMap accounts have been vandalizing OSM in London, New York and elsewhere from Google’s IP address, the same address in India reported by Mocality. The most obvious vandalism started around last Thursday last week from these particular users however it may take us some time to do a full analy [systemed.net]
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My wife used to work for a well known map company. She was told that it was common practice to deliberately insert errors so the company could tell if its maps were being copied (I guess they could easily release the lawyers that way).
I wonder how many errors there are in the maps used by GPS. Maybe since it is more controlled, there are less errors ... maybe.
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known as copyright easter eggs (in osm community, at least) - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Copyright_Easter_Eggs [openstreetmap.org]
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Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Insightful)
They may be "built using unreliable hardware and software", but expensive commercial maps are apparently often pretty badly wrong - including "dangerous" things like mislabelled one-way streets, roads that head into lakes, and other errors that could cause serious accidents, many of them unfixed for years!
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder how they handle winter roads, like one can find in the northern part of Scandinavia.
This are routes that are open only in winter when the lakes are frozen, and provide very convenient routes and shortcuts. In summer however they are closed for obvious reasons.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Funny)
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I use Waze for most of my navigation now, which also uses an open mapping back-end that's user editable. Winter roads are one of the features I've requested that it doesn't understand yet -- telling me to take a shortcut through a back road that's not open in January for example. Of course, as soon as I avoid it, it re-routes me properly.
One of the things I love about Waze is that it tracks your actual routes you take, and saves them on the routing server to help it make better decisions in the future.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Interesting)
TomTom itself will direct you to a point about half a mile away from my house (in the middle of a large town) if you put my postcode into some of its GPS devices.
That's caused problems both for friends and takeaway delivery drivers :(
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TomTom itself will direct you to a point about half a mile away from my house (in the middle of a large town) if you put my postcode into some of its GPS devices.
That's caused problems both for friends and takeaway delivery drivers :(
Isn't that what a post code is, though? They are only useful for narrowing a search down to a certain area, that's why addresses also include road names and numbers.
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UK postcodes generally identify a particular street, or even a particular section of a street if it's particularly long or has a large number of houses.
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For a while I lived in a 17-storey tower block that had four postcodes. Each postcode covered four floors, or five for the top floors.
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UK postcodes generally identify a particular street, or even a particular section of a street if it's particularly long or has a large number of houses.
UK postcodes are just a grid 1km I think, I am on the wrong computer to check. You can always import that leaked Postcode db into a mapping software to see what I mean. This normally translates in to a part of a street.
Wrong. My postcode covers about twelve square kilometers; down in the village they have three within a hundred metres. It's based on a (rough) number of delivery addresses.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:4, Informative)
Indeed, in a city a Postcode is usually a street, part of a street, or a single block of flats. Out in the countryside a postcode can cover square miles of farmland.
Google Maps sometimes shows postcode boundaries, here's one in Glasgow that's about 200m across
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=G2+4jq&hl=en&sll=55.86512,-4.267604&sspn=0.002071,0.004506&hnear=G2+4JQ,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16 [google.co.uk]
Wheras this one near Inverness is about 1km across
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=IV6+7XN&hl=en&ll=57.528981,-4.470577&spn=0.015852,0.036049&sll=57.529572,-4.536686&sspn=0.253622,0.576782&geocode=CZh9Pqs90U35Fd3rbQMdgOy4_ynT6PPhdwCPSDE0q-qJe8xFvw&hnear=Muir+of+Ord+IV6+7XN,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=15 [google.co.uk]
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If you are talking about the US, ZIP+4 (what I think you mean by Zip-9) only indentifies a small region (like a block). Otherwise you'd be limited to 10k addresses per ZIP code, and there's certainly plenty of places that would fail.
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Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with open maps is that too many can edit them.
The problem with closed maps is that too few can edit them.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with open maps is that too many can edit them.
The problem with closed maps is that too few can edit them.
TomToms problem with open maps is that they can't charge for them, and they compete with their product. This is just marketing BS AKA lies.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Interesting)
In addition to your very good point some of the commercial maps (used to?) deliberately add mistakes to their maps as a test that they can use to see if anyone is copying them.
ye ye - I know [citation needed], don't feel like it
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Informative)
In addition to your very good point some of the commercial maps (used to?) deliberately add mistakes to their maps as a test that they can use to see if anyone is copying them.
ye ye - I know [citation needed], don't feel like it
[citation provided] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_streets [wikipedia.org]
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Interesting)
On the way to my former residence, all the mapping services I have ever use direct me to a bit of a shortcut, taking a small bridge over a local river instead of the bridge associated with the state highway.
Said bridge has been closed (condemed) since 1967.
I have attempted to bring this to the attention of multiple major map direction sites and gps companies, but despite 'accepting' my correction, the latest Tom-Tom unit (just for example) still gives the route over the closed bridge
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:4, Informative)
Granted, my example is not quite as old as yours, but probably a more significant example of certain providers actually not giving a crap about updates on the basics, let alone the explosion of new estates and traffic conditions. FFS.
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TomTom flames open street maps? Shocking! In other news, Microsoft flames Linux, and RIAA labels flame indies. Does this actually surprise anyone? Are there really that many people who would lend any credence to a commercial company bashing its competitors?
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Insightful)
"In some places, like where I live ... However, Bing Maps is the best one of them with most information"
And where is that place where you live? Sorry, I get suspicious if a newish user account promotes Bing like that.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Informative)
"In some places, like where I live ... However, Bing Maps is the best one of them with most information"
Yeah, we really really really need a new moderator option, -1 marketdrone
I hate to say it but GP is telling the truth in the case of the UK, especially when it comes to walking trails. Look at this bing map view of a nearby valley [binged.it]. It clearly shows footpaths, contours, wooded areas, etc, you can see where to walk and how difficult the terrain will be. On the other hand the google map view [goo.gl] of the same area shows the valley as a blank! I certainly find bing much better for hiking route planning, in fact I would go as far as to say its impossible on google.
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The details of your post make your statement of bing being better for hiking a useful post.
The Grandparents post is devoid of any information and merely contains opinion. (which may or may not be correct.)
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Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:4, Informative)
Bing maps nowadays are nothing but a front end for navteq's maps. As a result, they have very detailed maps as navteq is one of the biggest mapping companies around.
Bing maps became navteq maps after the deal with nokia where MS was forced to adopt some nokia tech for a fee to show nokia it was serious about the long term.
Google maps are not really comparable. They're significantly worse because google isn't a mapping company that existed for a long time.
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Bing maps nowadays are nothing but a front end for navteq's maps.
In the UK for these detailed views they use Ordinance Survey maps
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Insightful)
Navteq uses...
Navteq is the company that provides maps and mapping services. When you hear names like "tomtom", "garmin" and so on, these companies do not actually provide maps. They provide UI shells and minor map modifications but licence actual maps either from navteq or tele atlas (two biggest providers of mapping data in the world). Navteq and tele atlas in turn get their maps from their cartographers, one of whom you just mentioned.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Informative)
When you hear names like "tomtom", "garmin" and so on, these companies do not actually provide maps. They provide UI shells and minor map modifications but licence actual maps either from navteq or tele atlas (two biggest providers of mapping data in the world).
TomTom bought TeleAtlas in 2008 [wikipedia.org]...
-- Pete.
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That's simply because they've specifically chosen to make available data from the Ordnance Survey. You can get the same maps on your own non-commercial website free if you want them (http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/web-services/os-openspace/api/index.html) or also see them on the OS website (http://www.getamap.ordnancesurveyleisure.co.uk/).
Ironically, the "getamap" website requires Microsoft Silverlight, whereas Bing doesn't.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:5, Interesting)
The reality is that the problem has never been with Ordnance Survey, but with the terms and conditions of Google Maps. It has absolutely nothing to do with derived data or our licensing terms but everything to do with Google claiming the right to use any data you display in Google Maps in any way it sees fit, even if it doesn’t belong to them.
Frustratingly, this is only a problem that exists with Google Maps. No such clause appears in the terms of any other mapping API, including Bing Maps and our own OS OpenSpace.
Re:Why would it need studies? (Score:4, Interesting)
Google wants to be able to edit the map, as they expose a Map Editor for users. If they can't claim ownership, then they will not able to have their users make changes, either directly (using Google Map Editor) or indirectly (collecting GPS tracks and elevation data to supplement roads and terrain)
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Where I live, virtually nothing is completely mapped by OSM. Some stuff (that seems to have been imported from an ancient database) is completely wrong. Knowing that, it's still useful. Basically, the stuff that is mapped are the roads and trails that are in common use by the 4 or 5 people using OSM in the area. Even with poor coverage, you end up being able to get to all the major areas. If it isn't mapped, it's a good indication that there isn't much to see there.
I actually started with OSM because n
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Do you have an example such road –such roads should be tagged access=private on OpenStreetMap, and would be rendered with alphaed red splodges over the top indicating it as private.
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Everyone can edit anything and they are often built using unreliable hardware and software... this can lead to serious problems. Imagine if some of those 'self-driving cars' would use them
There you go, jumping from one assumption to another !
While the open-map itself might not be 100% accurate, how sure are you that the map from Tom-Tom is?
And about those "Self-Driving Cars" - if those cars got into accident due to errors in Tom-Tom's map, then what?
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Nice tip for Bing the same minute that the article was posted. Shill of not, that's bad slashdot swag, man.
I thought the same thing but I would have expected better English. It was also a bit of a convoluted argument to get to "Bing is great" don't use TomTom or OSM.
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Or rather - if they do, they deserve exactly what they get.