With 'Access Codes,' Textbook Pricing More Complicated Than Ever 400
jyosim writes "Some see it as the latest ploy by textbook publishers to kill the used book market: 'access codes' for online supplements for course work. In some cases professors require students to purchase these codes in order to even see the required homework. One U. of Maine's student's struggle to find a reasonably priced textbook demonstrates the limits the new publisher practices put on students, but some argue that ultimately the era of digital course materials will be better for student learning."
Re:Businessmen (Score:5, Interesting)
criminals. textbook publishers are criminals
schools have already put into the cost of my tuition fees for maintaining blackboard. now the publisher turns around, and creates a similar site, with less functionality, and less support, and they expect me to pay for it. professors don't mind- they get free access, and the publisher will go ahead and put together a syllabus/homework/etc, so they have less work to do at the cost of the students already taxed pocket book
criminals
Re:Seen this in person (Score:5, Interesting)
My Chemistry professor last year told me each year the faculty votes on which book to use. The book publishers all come in, give a pitch, bribe them with gifts, and also provide canned lectures slides and assignments for the professors who don't want to prepare on their own. Thats how they get professors and universities to agree to this shit. I wouldn't be surprise if there is a full on kickback to the universities too...
Whenever I see this "you need to have this special software provided only by the book company to do assignments for [extremely basic course]," that's a sign your university and/or professors sold you out.
Textbook prices (Score:5, Interesting)
The access codes are just one part of a bigger problem: textbook prices. For one class this semester, I was able to purchase a Kindle, the $50 lighted Kindle case, and the Kindle version of the textbook for a combined cost that is less than the price of the hardcover textbook.
Also - it wouldn't be such an obvious scam if you could purchase only the access code and acquire your book from the secondary market. In all instances that I've seen, the access codes come only with new books.
I'm always tempted to blame the professors for choosing course materials like this; however, on more than one occasion I've heard professors complaining about pressure to switch to the latest edition. Pressure from whom? I have no idea...
Re:Better or worse? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sometimes treating your prof as a human being works, try it some time.
Re:Businessmen (Score:4, Interesting)
It is Ohm's law applied to social dynamics: Whenever there is something you are internally compelled to do, the processes will arise that will force you to pay to do it. Even if you just happy for no reason, your happiness will be deconstructed and you will be offered to restore it in some buying way. Therefore, during the course of your life, you will see many of your rights, as well as Good Things In General, swept away from your hands in one way or another and placed behind the walls with restricted access. Governments will tax them or ban them, or highwayman^Wbusinesspeople will captivate and privatize them and sell them (or surrogates) back to you. If we were all to abandon our pur(cha)suit for happiness and just sit and meditate, it would have been claimed antisocial and dangerous activity.
Re:Businessmen (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes he does, but he also describes an actual measurable trend(which doesn't apply to individuals, only the groups in general). There has never been a greater wealth gap between the 55+ demographic and the 18-35 demographic in the history of the united states. And it's REALLY substantial: take a look here [pewresearch.org]. Now I'm not agreeing with the GP's Hitleresque means of addressing the problem, but it IS a problem.
Just try getting an ISBN... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been going around and around with Follett on this one. Under federal US law [1], colleges that receive federal money are REQUIRED to disclose ISBN numbers for course textbooks. However, the law also states that the school has the option of disclosing the ISBN numbers online with course schedules. So guess what? You actually have to register for a class at some colleges before you can get the ISBN. (This is, in fact, the case at Dallas County Community College District campuses.)
Except for Follett. Apparently, even after registering, Follett doesn't seem to want to disclose the ISBN. On top of that, if you call a Follett bookstore for an ISBN (or visit in person), the minimum-wage earning salesperson will politely tell you they are not ALLOWED to disclose the ISBN, you have to go online to get it.
More and more college bookstores are now closing the shelves to casual student browsers, so you don't even have the option of just picking up the book and looking at it for the ISBN.
[1]http://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/leg/hea08/index.html#dcl
Re:Textbook prices (Score:2, Interesting)
Sometimes that pressure comes from the campus bookstore, actually. If a book is on a new edition, it eventually becomes difficult to get used copies in sufficient quantities and quality for them to sell.
Re:Businessmen (Score:5, Interesting)
The Boomers was really a short sited generation. Their fight to stay young and relevant, created a situation where there was poor if any succession planning. Previous generations when they got into their 40's or 50's they realized they were getting old so they shifted their work from going further, to slowing down and teaching the next generation on how to take the helm. The Boomers were really the first youth culture, and they tried to keep it up as a generation of young go ambitious high energy people. Now their bodies are getting older and falling apart due to trying to keep the youth idea running. And not thinking towards the future generations but to themselves. So us Generation X and Y are fighting to take over, often overwhelming due to no training. We are making old mistakes over again, because we haven't been passed down any wisdom.
It isn't about stupid politics, or how big a business is or how much taxes they pay... It is a culture where Me First was used. Now they are still in power and they don't realize how short sited the quick profit is.
Re:Businessmen (Score:2, Interesting)
What is a 'wealth' gap? Who decides there is a certain amount of wealth that each age group is supposed to have, what are those numbers?
Ok, so those in the 55+ demographic are the ones who started and built back in the 70's/80's many of the recognized companies that exist today and in doing so they made some good money. That is exactly what they intended to do. Wonder what their incomes looked like 20-30 years ago when they were building their businesses (either as early employees of founders)? I'd be willing to guess their incomes were not much different (in 70's/80's dollars) to today's youth, but their standards of living were probably lower.
So to the 18-35 crowd who hasn't made as much money I'd ask, where are the companies that you started? Where are the years of hard work you put in building wealth?
Re:Citation Of "Fact" Needed (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh man, "better for student learning"... As a HS teacher for the last 10+ years, this phrase is what boils my frickin blood. Education seems to be the place where charlatans and quacks can gain a strong foothold and peddle nouveau nonsense every 10-15 years, claiming to be on the cutting edge of NewEd, but never once have I seen any real G*dD@mn evidence that any of it works. Yet we buy into such crap time and time again, with each successive step making education more expensive (first for the governments, then for individuals). As for the quality of education in the last 30-40 years? Left as an exercise for the reader.
Some tech makes certain problems easier where they once were not (such as 3D visualization of molecular structure, spreadsheets, etc). I am no luddite. I love using tech when it makes total sense. What I _DON'T_ need is a layer of overpriced cruft that makes my job ultimately more difficult and diminishes the quality of education.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Businessmen (Score:3, Interesting)
Similarly, it's the people entering the medicare and social security roles that are supporting things like a medicare voucher program but only for people who aren't about to retire. i.e. I can get medicare, but cut my taxes so I can keep my money and the next guy can get screwed.
I'm not saying it's you personally, but there are a lot of people of that generation who are all for cutting government services for things they either received their benefit for or keep the services for things they will get benefit for, but cut it for everyone else after.
Re:Mark of a shitty instructor (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm going to take it to the 4th power and suggest that society is rotten at the core.
Charging for an education is the instrument of a society that wants a debt-shackled workforce.
When started my medical degree 20 years ago, my biggest expense was rent. By working summer jobs, living modestly, taking the government student loan, and with a small parental stipend, I was able to finish my course with a debt of less than £10,000 - and this was a 5 year course. I took advantage of the interest rate on the student loan being lower than the level of inflation and took my time paying it off - but I could have cleared it in my first year of work since a junior doctors job came with a rent-free apartment for a year, at the time (which is no longer the case, which amounts to a 20% pay cut) Even though I was only earning £21,000 [1]
The tuition fees per year are now £9,000 ; I pity the younger generation.
For programming jobs I wouldn't even bother with a university education now. Previous education was NOT a factor in my decision on any of my recent hires, just ability and experience.
[1] The junior doctors salary of £21,000 (about $33,000) was a 1998 salary ; while working conditions have improved, largely through a reduction in the absurd number of hours you were expected to work (I used to clock > 80 hour weeks on a regular basis), the salary is now a mere £22,412, when inflation would suggest it should be around £32,000 ; while my hours were much higher than the current crop of doctors, for overtime I was paid a measly 1/3rd of my contracted hourly rate, which means a mere £5,250 of my wage was earned from overtime, despite it being more than half my working hours. Adjusted for this, the base salary should be £24,000, without overtime. If you try to convince me that junior doctors in the NHS are doing no overtime, I'll laugh at you. Cruelly.
Action? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've read most of the comments here, and what's depressing to me is that amidst all of the complaining and finger-pointing, I haven't seen anyone suggest even the possibility that there might be some collective action that could be taken to fight the problem and those whose greed is responsible for it.
What if every student in a class refused to buy the assigned textbook, and instead agreed on free or low-cost textbooks and resources? What if the instructors who are getting kickbacks at the cost of their students were publicly held accountable? There are probably dozens of things that could be done, if students could only find their common ground and act.