Lawmakers Try To Block Black Box Technology In Cars, DVR Tracking 167
Lucas123 writes "Lawmakers this week filed bipartisan legislation that would give car owners control over data collected in black box-style recorders that may be required in all models as soon as next year. The move follows a separate proposal made earlier this month that would limit telecommunications companies in tracking viewer activity with new digital video recorders (DVR) technology. The 'Black Box Privacy Protection Act' would give vehicle owners more control over the information collected through a car or motorcycle event data recorders, which the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has proposed be required in all new cars as of 2014. 'For me, this is a basic issue of privacy,' said Rep. Mike Capuano (D-MA). 'Many consumers aren't even aware that this technology is already in most vehicles.' The second, more colorfully titled piece of legislation, is the 'We Are Watching You Act'. The bill was filed in response to reports that national telecommunications companies are exploring technology for DVRs that would record the personal activities of people as they watch television at home in order to target them for marketing and advertising. If implemented, among other things, when the recording device is in use, the words 'WE ARE WATCHING YOU' would appear on the television screen. 'This may sound preposterous, but it is neither a joke nor an exaggeration,' Capuano said. 'These DVRs would essentially observe consumers as they watch television as a way to super-target ads. It is an incredible invasion of privacy.'"
I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually I wouldn't mind having a black box in the car recording everything... IF I have access to the data. I've contemplated wiring up cameras and building a small server to continuously record front and rear views, so if there's an accident or something and there's questions about what happened I can pull up the video and say "Here, watch what happened.". Having had friends who've been dinged for rear-ending someone because they got rear-ended and shoved forward, I think it'd be wonderful to be able to pull up the black box record and prove that I was stationary with the engine at idle and the brake fully applied when the collision occurred and could not have been the cause.
What I object to isn't the black box itself. It's having that black box there and not having any access to it or control over or even knowledge of who's pulling the data from it and when.
Re:I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:5, Informative)
Dashboard cams are very common in Russia. That's why so many people got good shots of the meteorites. Apparently the cams are useful when dealing with some of the local LEO's.
Re:I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:4, Funny)
Dashboard cams are very common in Russia. That's why so many people got good shots of the meteorites. Apparently the cams are useful when dealing with some of the local LEO's.
Dammit, man, this is Slashdot. Your second sentence mentioned meteors, so I naturally assumed that LEO stood for low-earth orbit. Had to read it a second time, though maybe my first reading would make sense, too.
Re: I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:2)
The impactor was in an extremely low earth orbit.
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That's why so many people got good shots of the meteorites
Not to mention good footage of heart-stopping and/or hilarious shenanigans in Russian traffic. Have a look on YouTube.
These cams are rather inexpensive these days; no need to be messing around with web cams and servers in your car.
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Don't forget the techno music... it's a must!
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Not if you want me to watch it.
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http://dashcamtalk.com/category/dashcamreviews/ [dashcamtalk.com]
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The problem with that site is good luck actually buying any of the cameras that are reviewed. They're basically reviewed by chipset, and they're not sold that way. Or, maybe they're sold that way but only contain the advertised chipset 60% of the time.
Dashcams aren't sold under brand names as far as I can tell, and that makes it really hard to buy anything of decent quality. The only sites I've found so far that seem trustworthy are MUCH more expensive.
When companies like Sony/Panasonic/etc start making
Re:I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually I wouldn't mind having a black box in the car recording everything... IF I have access to the data. I've contemplated wiring up cameras and building a small server to continuously record front and rear views, so if there's an accident or something and there's questions about what happened I can pull up the video and say "Here, watch what happened.". Having had friends who've been dinged for rear-ending someone because they got rear-ended and shoved forward, I think it'd be wonderful to be able to pull up the black box record and prove that I was stationary with the engine at idle and the brake fully applied when the collision occurred and could not have been the cause.
Exactly this. 3 years ago the wife was the middle car of 3 sitting stopped at a light. A 4th car rear-ended the car behind her hard enough to shove them all together and push the front car through the crosswalk. 3 years of constant pain, spinal surgery, physical therapy, countless outpatient procedures, cognitive therapy, and because the damages to the cars were not major, the at-fault driver's insurance company has maintained that she could not possibly have been injured in that accident. The latest is their bullshit engineering analysis, claiming that the at-fault driver was going 3-4 miles per hour--to me that is so obviously an impossible conclusion that I'm astounded that a licensed engineer would put his name to it--I just hope their lawyer is not able to baffle a jury into believing such a steaming pile. Responding police officer did not remotely do her job, and damn I wish the at-fault car would have had a black-box data recorder, and that the data from it would have been captured at that time.
Re:I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually I wouldn't mind having a black box in the car recording everything... IF I have access to the data.
Here's the argument, access vs control. I'm all for black boxes in cars too (I've already installed a dash cam in my car) but I would also require access to the data.
That being said, I highly doubt that these things will be tamper proof in the slightest (manufacturers will simply pick the cheapest possible way to comply with the law). Black boxes will be easily hacked so it's a bit of moot point for people who are bad drivers and dont want the proof hanging around (however for good drivers, it does help clear them of fault in an accident).
I've contemplated wiring up cameras and building a small server to continuously record front and rear views, so if there's an accident or something and there's questions about what happened I can pull up the video and say "Here, watch what happened."
Most cars already have these sensors available through an ODBII interface, you can get bluetooth ODB connectors off Ebay for $15 and a free application called Torque on Android can read it (IIRC, for full logging you need the full application) so if you want a black box it can be set up with a cheap Android tablet and a dash cam. You could probably even use the Android device as a dash cam (although I haven't seen a mobile device with decent enough video quality to replace my 1080p 30 FPS camera). I've got mine hooked up to my phone, great for diagnosing problems and improving my driving style.
However dash cam and logging devices are double edged swords. Along with proving you're not at fault, they can also prove you did something wrong and many people in my experience dont know when they're doing something wrong.
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With Event Data recorders, you don't have to prevent hacking, or erasure. You just have to be able to detect that it occurred.
There is no problem letting people read out the contents, or displaying on screen in cars that have screens.
You are correct about the double edged sword issue.
If the police and attorneys get to trawl your entire Cams recording (as they certainly will in discovery), some of which can be very long, they will almost certainly be able to find something you did wrong. Since drivers make
Re:I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:5, Interesting)
With Event Data recorders, you don't have to prevent hacking, or erasure. You just have to be able to detect that it occurred.
There in lies the problem, it's entirely possible to prevent that from being logged.
Seeing as you have physical access to the hardware it would not be difficult at all. At worst it would be a wholesale replacement of the part with a pre-modified version. But it's far more likely that you'll just have to re-flash the firmware.
Not that I'd advocate this, but I have to face the reality it will happen.
The lawyers can data mine these incidents, 5mph over here, unsignaled lane change there, a lane drift on a totally empty road, and put you in the light of a careless driver, and claim that an attentive and defensive driver might have avoided the accident.
This is why the law is very specific about fault (at least in my country). The road code is a 400 page document, if you printed it out you could use it for self defence.
Even if you were in violation of one of the more minor road rules, you can still be ruled to be not at fault. I.E. if you were changing lanes at a traffic light (illegal where I live) and someone runs a red and T-Bones you, there was nothing you could do to avoid that accident. Also whilst the events leading up to an accident are taken into account there is a limit of what can be used (I.E. if someone overtakes you and immediately brakes, forcing you to rear-end him, you will be considered not at fault because the other driver acted in an unsafe manner to put you in that position. However an unsignaled lane change 2 minutes previous would not matter as it did not contribute to the event).
BTW, an unsignaled lane change is the sign of a careless driver, it really should be muscle memory and you shouldn't have to think about it. Failing to do so every now and then is forgivable, but consistently forgetting is the sign of a bad driver. Drifting out of your lane unforgivable, regardless of how full or empty the road is. Anyone who has a history of forgetting to indicate or have trouble staying in their lane is bad driver.
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Signalling for lane changes should be a sign of intent, not a warning or an afterthought. It usually isn't a signal for those you can see, it is for those you cannot. Some people act like it's divulging information to the enemy. My pet peeve is seeing drivers getting into the turn lane and then turning on your turn signal. Really? Never would have figured that out.
I have no idea why this is modded down, this is exactly what you use an indicator for. To demonstrate your intent.
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That is something I don't get. why don't car manufacturers give us mroe data than a stupid warning light?
Sure leaving the warning light on the dash, but why not use the radio, navagation display, etc to display more detailed and less obscure data? Oh sure the warning light is becuase a cap is not on tight, no problem. or a sensor is going off I better not wait and rush to the mechanic faster so that it can be fixed.
The car companies have the data right fucking there, but they don't want to expose it any
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Because the average driver can barely remember to indicate, let alone decipher complex instructions like "Change the oil now, dipstick".
Unfortunately car designers have to consider the stupidest users when designing things. Also, the sensors cant always tell whats going on, I.E. fluid pressure could be falling because a cap is loose or because there is a hole in the line somewhere. You'll need to do
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"... and don't forget to put the dipstick back in, dipstick!"
Had a friend do it ; then we went up to the hills for a weekend, slowly losing oil by spray from the crankcase/ sump. Coming back home ... runs out of oil, miles from anywhere. We hitch-hiked home ; he had about a 5 mile walk to a petrol station, then 5 miles back, as the snow started falling. Sympathy didn't ooz
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I used to have a VW and its oil gauge was fake! it did have a meter and a needle but it always moved to the center to show 'things are ok!'.
it turns out that its an idiot light in the form of a gauge! if the oil pressure goes too low, the meter needle will show it on one extreme but its still just a binary readout in the form of an 'analog' gauge.
what a scam! you think you read the pressure but its just a go/noGo indicator. those bastards.
so, if they have a real meter but use it as an on/off indicator,
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Yea, I have a F150 and it not only has an idiot oil gauge but also an idiot voltmeter. Both permanently read about 60% when the truck is running. Someone said they did this because too many people would complain about low oil pressure at idle (normal) and I guess the same with the voltage including it dropping when the fan is on.
People shouldn't be allowed to drive without being able to read the basic instruments.
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Because everyone would have the knowledge and skills to do it? The world isn't like
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That being said, I highly doubt that these things will be tamper proof in the slightest (manufacturers will simply pick the cheapest possible way to comply with the law). Black boxes will be easily hacked so it's a bit of moot point for people who are bad drivers and dont want the proof hanging around (however for good drivers, it does help clear them of fault in an accident).
Because everyone would have the knowledge and skills to do it?
Because no-one would offer such services to these people.
Do you think the average street racer knows how to flash an ECU and change the boost on their turbo? Hell no, they pay someone who does.
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If you've done something wrong and it results in an accident and it is recorded on video and/or one's own black box solution, then that seems like the perfect time to ingest (or otherwise eliminate or destroy) the MicroSD card.
It ain't perfect, but it does dull the edge on the back-side
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Just to be a bit silly: Actually, you'd still be a contributing factor to the rear-ender. If you are close enough that a low speed collision pushed you ahead into the car ahead of you, you are too close.
This isn't "silly" at all. Many official state drivers manuals and driver training programs advise you to leave a gap of a few feet or maybe half a car length in front of you when stopping. It not only prevents "chain reaction" collisions, but also provides maneuvering space if some other situation occurs (car in front stalls or is disabled, emergency vehicle needs to get through, etc.).
Despite how common this practice is, stopping only a few inches behind the guy in front is an unsafe driving practice,
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These weren't low-speed collisions, though. The initiating car was going fast enough to shove 3-4 cars forward with the lead car ending up half a car-length forward of where it had been standing. The only reason my friend got out with just body damage was because there were 2 cars behind him with half a car-length between each and half a car-length between him and the car ahead of him. But the law was clear on the point: in a rear-end collision the car behind is at fault regardless. The initiating car was c
Re:I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you look in your car manual for any late model vehicle you will find that what you asked for is already there.
Its usually a very small bit of info, 30 seconds or less.
My car's manual says this:
Event Data Recorder (EDR)
This vehicle is equipped with an event data recorder
(EDR). The main purpose of an EDR is to record, in
certain crash or near crash-like situations, such as an air
bag deployment or hitting a road obstacle, data that will
assist in understanding how a vehicle’s systems performed.
The EDR is designed to record data related to
vehicle dynamics and safety systems for a short period of
time, typically 30 seconds or less.
The EDR in this vehicle
is designed to record such data as:
How various systems in your vehicle were operating;
Whether or not the driver and passenger safety belts
were buckled/fastened;
How far (if at all) the driver was depressing the
accelerator and/or brake pedal; and,
How fast the vehicle was traveling.
These data can help provide a better understanding of
the circumstances in which crashes and injuries occur.
NOTE:EDR data are recorded by your vehicle only if a
non-trivial crash situation occurs; no data are recorded by
the EDR under normal driving conditions and no personal data (e.g., name, gender, age, and crash location)
are recorded. However, other parties, such as law enforcement, could combine the EDR data with the type of
personally identifying data routinely acquired during a
crash investigation.
To read data recorded by an EDR, special equipment is
required, and access to the vehicle or the EDR is needed.
In addition to the vehicle manufacturer, other parties,
such as law enforcement, that have the special equipment, can read the information if they have access to the
vehicle or the EDR.
I see no problem with this type of info, because by the time an airbag deploys its already a matter of public safety and police are usually involved.
Yes there is probably enough info in there to convict you. If you were accelerating at 55mph in a 25mph school zone when you ran over little Billy, you can expect your car to testify against you.
I see no reason this information shouldn't be available to the owner without the need of special equipment, as long as the car was still able to power the recorder and provide readout somehow. I suspect the requirement for special equipment may be technical (how to power the device on enough to read it) and also legal, to prevent people from clearing the EDR after running over little Billy.
But it would be nice to know what is in there. Especially when buying a used car.
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I'd rather the damn thing only retain the last 30 seconds before a collision. This way, if someone rear-ends up, pushing you forward into the car in front, it's recorded. Don't need camera's for that. The sensors already there.
The main issue as you said is the lack of tranparency as to what's being recorded and who in hell has access to that data. Things like GPS and speed are just two of the things I'm concerned with as the insurance company will ding you drastically for going with the flow of traffic even
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I've contemplated wiring up cameras and building a small server to continuously record front and rear views
Welcome to 5 years ago. Today you can buy car DVR with 2 cameras at under $100.
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Umm. If your car was rear ended that hard, then there is already far more graphic and undeniable proof that it was not use. Specifically, your wretched rear bumper and the wrecked car behind you.
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Re:I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:5, Insightful)
If users had write access to the black-box, then trust in it wouldn't exist, thus defeating the point of the black-box itself. You can make-up any data and put it in there, including fake video footage.
By that reasoning almost all video and photos should not be allowed as evidence. How easy do you think it is to fake video of your car getting hit? Any video or photo is much better than the fabled eyewitness testimony, which has been shown to be incredibly unreliable, even if the witness has no vested interest in the outcome.
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If everyone had it then there would be more than 1 black box. Usually a minimum of two and sometimes a lot more.
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You wouldn't want write access. From my standpoint I want the legal presumption that the data's valid to be as unchallengeable as I can arrange it. If I don't have write access, I can't be accused of having altered the data. Note: the box doesn't have to be tamperproof, it merely has to be not immediately alterable by me. One of the advantages of these laws is that they grant the legal presumption of validity to the black box and the burden's on the cops or the insurance company to prove it was tampered wit
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... and so your recorder system misses the part where the other two drivers involved start fighting with each other (just picking an example where your privacy isn't involved, but your testimony might well be needed).
It's not so easy once you start looking at exactly what you might credibly want to store. OTOH, there are very legitimate grounds for not storing what you don't want to sub-poenae'd for.
Re:I wouldn't mind it if... (Score:5, Insightful)
Who said the issue was space?
I'd like a 2 minute loop type recorder to ensure my PRIVACY. I see no reason why I would want multiple hours of my driving and find no justification for anyone to have that info from my recorder either.
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As I said above, "OTOH, there are very legitimate grounds for not storing what you don't want to sub-poena-ed for." ; there are two very different sides to this coin. (Maybe more.)
You want recording of the context of your crash, to prove that it was the other driver's fault. Do you also want to have the contents of your car's camera records sub-poena-ed by a passing driver to prove that someone
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Most EDRs already in US cars only record 30 seconds.
They know when to start (or when to stop, depending on model) the same way they know
when to deploy airbags.
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Usually they record in a loop. Say they have space for 2 hours of video. They record continuously, run out of space and then start overwriting the oldest data.
If you have an accident you stop it and you instantly have the relevant footage from before the accident plus the aftermath after the accident.
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Same in this country - at least one company does it. I'll be looking closely at that to cut my premiums on the next insurance cycle.
Actually, yes ; that is a reasonable point of view. Particularly if you're in an advertising-funded TV
obligatory Yakov Smirnoff quote (Score:1)
"In America, you watch Television.
"In Soviet Russia, television watches YOU!!"''
Re:obligatory Yakov Smirnoff quote (Score:4, Insightful)
"In America, you watch Television.
"In Soviet Russia, television watches YOU!!"''
This time you've got it backwards.
black boxes (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, I got a primitive one in my own car. I just opened it up and wired the nvram reset to the ignition. Whenever the car turns off, it fires the reset. It's an amnesiac vehicle now. Of course, not everyone knows how to do this, but hey.
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"Welcome to Ford SYNC, powered by...uh...what's that company with the sexy geek and the chair monkey again?"
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You do realize that black box is your best friend if you have an accident when you're not at fault? An idiot running after you can cost you tens of thousands in medical expense after medical expenses and his insurance pays out (happened to a family member) - I shudder to think of what it would cost if the first cop on the scene believed the other guy's lie, and you had no hard data.
Today's black boxes only record 30 seconds of info anyhow. That info will be subpoenaed if someone dies in a crash. The cour
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After a crash you need to move your car out of the accident zone. Your engine has often stopped in the crash.
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Yes, and his insurance company will see that he was trying to erase evidence, and neither insurance company will give him the benefit of the doubt anymore.
He just has to hope he doesn't get into any accident.
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Yeah, I got a primitive one in my own car. I just opened it up and wired the nvram reset to the ignition. Whenever the car turns off, it fires the reset. It's an amnesiac vehicle now. Of course, not everyone knows how to do this, but hey.
Why don't you commercialize it then?
There's always the after market for... (Score:5, Funny)
Programming/reprogramming these things.
Judge: Officer Friday, could you please repeat that, I'm not sure I heard it right.
Friday: Yes, your honor. It appears on Tuesday, June 4th, 2013, the suspect's car was orbiting Europa, in clear violation of the directive to leave this one moon alone.
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I doubt these boxes will be tamper proof in the slightest, car manufactures have a long history of picking the cheapest possible way to comply with legal requirements and as always, if you have physical access to a system it's already compromised.
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The Event Data Recorder could be logically or physically separate from the Engine Control Unit that you're talking about with that kind of aftermarket support.
And I'm sure it will be separated (but still connected as it needs to get data from the ECU, things like the CAN bus already facilitate this), I was merely using the ECU as an example of how after-market programming has already taken root in the automotive sector.
In the worst case scenario, a EDR (back box) will need to be hardwired, but chances are they'll use off the shelf components so like the ECU, it'll just need to be re-flashed with an aftermarket ROM.
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Orbiting, hell!? Have you even SEEN the place!? YOU CAN SEE THE RUTS FROM SPACE!
Damned kids, tell em to stay away from developing ecosystems, and what do they do? Go muddin', that's what!
(/joke)
I wonder... (Score:2, Insightful)
when will americans well... complain about something? When they pass a law saying that your first born daughter must lose her virginity at age 7 to the president?
I don't know... I haven't been in the US for over 15 years now, but this bullshit I read... It makes you people look like meekest lot out there. And then I read comments about americans laughing at the chaos in brazil. You people should be doing that 24/7, instead of clapping, laughing, stuffing your faces and then changing the channel for more wra
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When it threatens to help people that are too lazy to be rich.
orwell was right... (Score:2)
,,,but he got one thing wrong. its not the government who is watching us its corporate America.
im not sure it that's an improvement or not.
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Like the man said... [youtube.com]
Re:orwell was right... (Score:4, Insightful)
Post-industrial society? When's that coming?
Do an inventory of the goods sitting around your house. Clothing, hand-stitched by child labor in buildings prone to deadly fires and collapse. Produce, picked by migrant workers, stooped over in fields for 12 hours a day, and frequently deported instead of being paid. Power from coal, via mountaintop removal in the Appalachian coal and lead belt, where cancer rates are 80% above national average, and ubiquitous heavy metal poisoning stunts the physical and mental growth of children. Post-industrial, my ass. You go to the store and see everything neatly packaged in pristine plastic --- just propaganda covering the massive amount of blood, sweat, and tears providing your comforts. A little neocolonialism and a lot of ignorance: we haven't moved past industrial society; just shuffled it out of sight, where working conditions can regress ever further back towards the horrors we once ran from.
Actions speak louder... (Score:2)
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You give me hope for the future. Thank you.
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Comment removed (Score:3)
Double Standards Much? (Score:2)
So when the government tracks your every move without your knowledge or consent, that's okay. When private companies do it letting you know beforehand in a written contract, that's very very wrong.
brb.. ears bleeding...
Can someone explain to me why this matters? (Score:2)
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Radical counterproposal: Why not remove the income-based restrictions instead?
Even better, why not just guarantee everyone a minimum income that's sufficient to cover the basics?
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You can't be free if somebody controls your access to food, shelter and medicine.
You say that as if someone doesn't already.
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Radical counter-counter-proposal: a man must work for his keep. Provide insurance for unexpected disastrous expenses and disability, and leave the rest be. There's plenty of work that needs doing, and we tend to fall apart as people if we're not doing it; whether chav or rich scion, the result is unpleasant when things are given to us unearned.
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Insurance is cheap, if we really mean insurance (for the unexpected) and we aren't abusing that term to mean health care.
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This is based on the notion that everything already belongs to some human, and other humans must pay him for it.
This would be amusing if the consequences weren't so dire.
I purpose an amendment to property law (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of making little piss-ant changes that affect only specific and limited circumstances, let's make a strong amendment to property law as a pile driver through all the non-ownership bullshit that's been plaguing us for the past 15-20 years.
If I am making a purchase as a private person (ie: not a business), whatever I've bought is mine. I own it 100%, it's my goddamn property and I will do whatever I fucking want with it (within written law of course)
No amount of shrinkwrap, ckickwrap, stick-on contracts, implied or non-negotiated "agreements" can change that. Contracts, usage policies and EULAs in which you had no bargaining or direct input are automatically null and void.
Any attempt by a manufacturer or producer to actively restrict, limit or deny my access to my own property, whether it be a needlessly fortified mechanism or an encrypted system to which I'm not provided the key, is met with swift punishment. The process for customers to address their grievances should be streamlined and available to the general public with minimal expense to the individual.
Hey, I can dream of a time when corporations won't be the government's puppet master, can't I?
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If I am making a purchase as a private person (ie: not a business), whatever I've bought is mine. I own it 100%, it's my goddamn property and I will do whatever I fucking want with it (within written law of course)
No amount of shrinkwrap, ckickwrap, stick-on contracts, implied or non-negotiated "agreements" can change that. Contracts, usage policies and EULAs in which you had no bargaining or direct input are automatically null and void.
So, can a private person, having bought something, thus owning it 100%, now sell that thing to another private person? I presume yes.
Next, can a private person, having bought something, thus owning it 100%, now sell that thing to another private person with shrinkwrap, clickwrap, or stick-on contracts?
If no, that means the first person really didn't own it 100%, as there is a restriction on how the way he can or cannot sell it.
If yes, then business can sell you shrinkwrap licenses by selling through a priv
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I realize you're trolling, but don't be ridiculous.
When you're making a "personal sale" to someone over Craigslist, eBay, a garage sale or whatever, you're just one person and don't have the power to strongarm a buyer into one-sided "agreements" ... they'll just find what they're looking for elsewhere from one of twenty thousand other sellers.
Large vendors, however, can feasibly do this kind of thing by virtue of their monopolies and oligopolies, which is why property law should protect us from this sort of
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Next, can a private person, having bought something, thus owning it 100%, now sell that thing to another private person with shrinkwrap, clickwrap, or stick-on contracts?
If no, that means the first person really didn't own it 100%, as there is a restriction on how the way he can or cannot sell it.
The "logical impossibility" only occurs when you twist the definition of ownership to include the ability to do things such as impose stick-on contracts when selling something. The original poster is applying 100% to a different set of attributes than you are.
While having a complex and twisted definition of ownership certainly creates lots of business for the legal profession, it is far from clear that it is beneficial to society as a whole. Judging from the current US legal system, very few legal professional have error lost any sleep thinking about this issue.
The only thing "twisted" here is the GP's desire to have something guaranteed for himself (100% ownership, do anything he likes with things he bought) while denying the same guarantee to others. "Ownership" included the right to transfer such ownership, by 100% unlimited ownership would include the ability to sell partial ownership to others.
This is the same debate of GPL vs BSD. BSD license provided 100% freedom, including the freedom to restrict others' freedom, while GPL restricted your freedom to rest
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When did I say anything about privacy?
I'm discussing a matter of personal property, whether it affects your privacy is a separate matter.
Tom Tom already selling your GPS data (Score:4, Informative)
A good use for goatse (Score:2)
OH DEAR GOD, MAKE IT STOP
Although I'd probably just use a piece of tape.
Shut up, lameness filter. It's a joke, and the caps were a quote from the article.
Angry (Score:5, Insightful)
Same folks that legislated IN the black boxes! (Score:2)
Congress has REQUIRED black boxes in every vehicle since 1996 with the introduction of OBD-II. In particular, the freeze frame functionality, which captures all the data leading up to an accident. Ugh.
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"Black box" is a misnomer. All of the powertrain and safety ECUs in the car (there's over a dozen in modern vehicles, not including the several dozen other miscellaneous ECUs) have had the functionality built into their software as part of OBD-II compliance since 96. Airbag ECU, Traction control, Anti-lock brakes, Transmission, Engine, power steering, etc. All of them record data upon a sensor fault (e.g. Impact in a collision).
Fun fact: nearly half of the software in some ECUs is dedicated to OBD-II compli
So, nearly thirty years after 1984... (Score:2)
Television finally watch you?
This is already here (Score:2)
Motor insurance companies in England are starting to offer lower premiums for people willing to have installed, black box recorders "to monitor their driving behaviour". This is supposed to encourage better driving (how??) so those who volunteer for this before it becomes mandatory can get discounts of up to 20% on top of their no-claims renewals.
What they don't tell you is that whenever the car has power going through its battery, these things have an always-on connection to the cell networks, with a GPS l
Worrying about wrong part of problem (Score:4)
Constant remote reporting of vehicle location via OnStar, etc. - bad.
Record of speed, braking, etc. for the last few seconds before airbag deployment, readable only if someone plugs a reader into the wreckage - probably OK.
Hmmm... (Score:2)
End Run (Score:4, Insightful)
Hire car experience; not just 'black box' data (Score:2)
Hired a car the other car; had the 'all singing & dancing' integrated GPS, bluetooth 'infotainment' thingie.
Fired up the music; car's storage already full of thousands of songs...
Fired up the navigation; history full of previous hirers departures & destination points, plus route details.
(Don't know what the "Blue Angel Club" is, but I think I can guess...)
Fired up the phone app; car full of contact names & addresses, helpfully cross-linked to navi history with previous routes & times.
So, in
Capuano (Score:2)
Mike Capuano is an interesting guy; and I am not just saying that because I met and hung out with his son at a wrestling tournament back in high school.
He was mayor of the city I grew up in, and I remember being totally pissed at the abuse of power when a porn video store opened up, he got is panties in a bunch and stationed a marked police cruiser in front of the place 24/7.
That left a sour taste in my mouth but, I later (after he moved up to federal office) saw him talking positively about civil liberties
it might work though (Score:2)
Too bad... (Score:2)
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Spying *is* oppression.Think about it.
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Why don't you put down your XBox and your Cheetos and come outside to play? It's already looking to be a nice day out here.
*puts phone back in pocket, resumes watching deer graze about 10m away*
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Lawmakers? This is the corporate world doing this crap. For once the lawmakers are (contemplating) stopping it.
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And that, among other reasons is why the right to tinker is actually important to civil rights as well as property rights of individuals.