LibreOffice 4.1 Released 157
An anonymous reader writes "The latest major release of the LibreOffice office suite has just been published, including an experimental improved sidebar based on the work of Apache OpenOffice, embedded fonts, better Microsoft Office compatibility (improving their exclusive capability in the free software world of not only being able to read but also write .docx and .xlsx files) and many further Improvements."
LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (Score:5, Insightful)
LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice should just merge in to one open source office suite.
Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (Score:5, Insightful)
LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice should just merge in to one open source office suite.
Based on the history of the creation of the LibreOffice project, I think that would never happen.
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We can merge them and call it Mega Office!
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Pfff
How about this: Uberoffice
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That is better, given the German origins.
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haha Ubre!
It sounds so much fancier
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ApacheLibreOffice --> ApLOffice :)
(pronouced Apple Office)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
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The problem is that Apache is more of a BSD license and Libre is GPL, no point in starting up THAT old flamewar so lets just say they agree to disagree and move on.
Actually, they agree to cooperate and move on.
3."Do you share code with Libre? sub question A: If so, will you soon both be even more similar -- in effect unforked? Sub question B: If you are not using each other's code, why not?"
We cooperate and coordinate and share with LibreOffice, as well as other open source and even proprietary application vendors, in several ways
https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/your_top_questions_answered [apache.org]
That's the great benefit of FOSS projects. Their goals don't include locking users or developers down.
Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't it great that we have 300 different Linux distros? I bet that's why it was so successful with desktop consumers (in confusing them I mean).
Yes, it is great that we have so many choices. The problem getting Linux onto most users' desktops hasn't been that there are so many options. Usually when it comes to "Linux on the Desktop!!!!" there's only been one main distro getting buzz at a time, most recently Ubuntu but going back at least as far as Caldera back in the late '90s. So I don't think brand confusion is the issue here.
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Hairy --
Embedded requires drivers Linux is a huge player
Server requires drivers Linux is a huge player
Android requires drivers Linux is the kernel
Tizen will require drivers and Linux is the kernel of that too
So obviously the model does work. It doesn't work well for low end Windows hardware. The Linux community, including Linus has mostly given up on that community. Linux failed at its original goal of a desktop replacement for Windows and was hugely successful at a dozen others. The kernel group is not
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Embedded and mobile is actually a great example of major hardware vendors who don't actually cooperate with the upstream Kernel. They fail to upstream a lot of their drivers and, as a result, have to spend time porting them forward when Google moves to a new kernel.
The sad bit is that all of that forward porting would be done for them if they went upstream, but since the hardware vendors integrate all sorts of custom Android-isms and they don't focus past the time their dev teams transition to the next hand
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Or Google could itself organize an Android kernel which works back and forth with Linus the way RedHat maintains their own separate features kernels. That would allow Androidisms to be in their kernel but have it ported forward. The hardware vendors will hopefully get the spirt of the GPL at some point.
But regardless Linux on embedded is successful.
Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (Score:4, Insightful)
Not only is this ridiculous hyperbole, it's hyperbole that isn't even remotely true.
Actually, it's why the silly FSF-approved distros will go nowhere.
Coincidentally, the BSD kernels have moved nowhere near as fast. And solaris is not "Free as in Freedom," Oracle cut it off so at best you have the kernel from Solaris 10 - an OS that was closed source for ages.
Not when you're blatantly pulling bullshit numbers out of your ass.
10000? I doubt that. But the difference is that they know that they have to support Windows, so they write Windows drivers (it's the advantage being a monopoly gets you.) Of course, the drivers in the tree don't need -constant- maintenance. And virtually every one of them who is qualified as an owner, most of which are employed by the company that produced the device.
Well:
- You link to "tmrepository," a site pretty much the geek equivalent of Stormfront, just about as twisted in upon itself, irrational, ignorant and hateful.
- The stable ABI argument is nonsense because you then bind yourself to whatever the closed source vendors are using. You are hamstrung for the sake of a bunch of driver writers who refuse to cooperate for no good reason and you don't dare fix it for fear of breaking some proprietary driver the vendor hasn't updated in years.
> The primary reason it's bullshit is because if you're so insistent on being proprietary, you target a specific distro's kernel, say, RHEL 6.3 or Ubuntu 12.04. Upstream is an entirely different beast, but given your ignorance I would assume you know nothing other than what the hate-filled people at "tmrepository" have cherry picked to mock.
> Conversely, what you're saying is that the Linux team shouldn't do it their way, they should do it a different way. One that gives 100% of the benefit to proprietary vendors and zero benefit to vendors that actually cooperate and upstream their drivers.
- You're in over your head in making this argument and resort to CAPS, name calling, and constant vulgarity while completely failing to present anything resembling a convincing argument.
Yeah, they're the only company pushing a binary driver that actually puts money into supporting Linux. It's not like driver development is free, it costs money to support Windows too. Interestingly, Nvidia also has lots of customers on Linux, so unsurprisingly they invest in the drivers and make sure it works.
Whereas with my employer, we work and push directly to the kernel, in addition to supporting the specific kernels of select distributions. Net result is that the driver is better than it was before we released it - not that there was anything special about it before. I suspect the same is true for most drivers.
But here we are again, another unsupported, empty, emotional spew from hairyfeet about things he doesn't actually understand.
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Since we're going to be dragged totally off topic...
Back to the childish insults I see. I compared it because that's what it comes down to. They pigeonhole everyone that disagrees with them into a stereotype and attack that with all the same fervor. It's a joke site to them, because they sit back, stereotype people, and mock them because of it, all the while believing themselves to be su
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Don't be an ass. Linux does not "go nowhere", it rules the world at the moment, or didn't you notice that you are surrounded by Linux devices because you are too busy admiring the daily poop you excrete onto Slashdot.
There is exactly one major computing segment where Linux does not rule the world, and that is PCs, where Microsoft owns and operates a thuggish racket involving illegal exercise of market power over vendors. And that one is starting to show cracks.
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I don't know if it's "crashes everything" more often, or if it's usually just silly QA things where things are just not seamless, and malfunction in an inconvenient way that gets in the way of productivity. But broadly speaking I have to agree with you, and I say that as someone who's used Linux on the desktop for several years and no interest whatsoever in switching back to Windows.
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Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to agree with it, and although my username would suggest otherwise, I would love to run Linux full time, it's some of this basic stuff that breaks with updates that keeps me away. It's the "lets create another sound API instead of fixing the broken stuff" and "Lets reinvent the UI instead of fixing the broken stuff" that keeps me away.
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> It's keeping it there after an update crashes everything and the user says, "Screw that, I'm going back to Windows because it works."
Said no debian user ever.
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> It's keeping it there after an update crashes everything and the user says, "Screw that, I'm going back to Windows because it works."
Going back to Windows because IT works?
Excuse me. My jaw just hit the floor. I've got to go find a shovel and retrieve it.
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Ubuntu, I can believe. Debian, I can also believe--if using testing or unstable, and/or generally not knowing what you're doing. So I would guess on the Debian side, it would have to be a classic case of PEBKAC, or willfully doing something that could potentially be dangerous. I figure RHEL and its derivatives would be equally rock-solid, though I'm sure if you really want to destroy one of those systems you could. For what it's worth, I tend to prefer the cleanliness of a fresh install though, while ke
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odd in my experience it is windows updates that break stuff. I haven't had a linux update break anything yet.
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I've operated and admined thousands of Windows based PCs and I have never once seen a system update that broke anything. Likewise, I've never seen a Linux update break anything...worse than it was already broken. Unless you specifically custom build a PC with parts for Linux, there will almost certainly be something that doesn't work correctly. That doesn't happen under Windows; everything just works.
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I've operated and admined thousands of Windows based PCs and I have never once seen a system update that broke anything.
Lucky you. [google.com]
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Linux on the desktop has a whole heap of problems. Updates are one of them (particularly when your OS has an average life expectancy of 6-12 months), but there's no shortage of others.
Off the top of my head:
- An easy way to install drivers for peripherals. If your printer/scanner/MFC isn't supported out of the box, it's potluck if the manufacturer has produced anything. If they have, then it's potluck how well it works. Compare and contrast with Windows, which has Windows update and besides, nobody
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You make it sound as if there is just one version of windows and the fact is driver support for peripherals can be problematic.
As an example I have a mint condition card reader from pny which does compact flash and smart media and a printer with card slots that can't handle anything over 128 meg so I plugs it into my linux box and find only the cf side is recognised no problem thinks me i'll just use it with windows instead no biggie was I wrong the only drivers are for 98se not xp, not 2000, vista, windows
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Possibly.
But we live in a world where hardware is so cheap it's considered disposable. If the printer no longer works (for whatever reason; you'd be amazed how many people don't even understand the idea that there's nothing wrong with the damn printer; it's the manufacturer's own commercial decision) then a new one is on the cards.
When the new one may or may not work - and linuxprinting.org recommends a list of printers where the most recent one was discontinued in 2011 - then you have a problem. A hardware
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The hardware list is just a list, the situation with printers has improved greatly over recent years. I'm currently downloading an update to hplip a week after installing the previous version. That covers HP printers, I'm in the market for a new inkjet and Canon seems to be the best option. Canons been contributing to open source drivers since 2009 obviously I do google for linux support for each model i am considering and I haven't found an issue yet with canon.
Most current generation printers are better t
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particularly when your OS has an average life expectancy of 6-12 months
Really? Let's have a look.
The current 3.x kernel series has been going for only 2 years or so, so maybe I'll give you that.
The 2.6 kernel (started 2004) is still actively supported. The 2.4 kernel (started 2001) had its latest update in May of this year. I would say that sort of indicates more commitment to long term support than just about any other software available.
Back in the '90s (I remember) you had to give some about how well your hardware would be supported, but nowadays pretty much anything
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What peripheral drivers would you like to install? What is it about Linux that prevents you from installing them? Is it because they are not available? That would be the manufacturers fault. There really is no excuse for this. The facilities for producing userspace drivers for just about anything have been available in Linux for a long time. Manufacturers don't have to open source or submit them to upstream repositories, but they do have to write them. If they don't...who's going to write it for them? And n
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- An easy way to install drivers for peripherals. If your printer/scanner/MFC isn't supported out of the box, it's potluck if the manufacturer has produced anything. If they have, then it's potluck how well it works. Compare and contrast with Windows, which has Windows update and besides, nobody is about to produce hardware without Windows drivers. .
This is so funny. Been on Linux for years now. And I actually don't need an easy way to install drivers, because I don't have to install them! Everything just works. Been that way since I switched to Ubuntu. Sometimes I have to tick a radio button to let the OS know I do want proprietary drivers, that's all.
Windows needs an easy way to install drivers since: it requires you to install drivers. My Windows 7 install couldn't even read my external hard drive before I dug up drivers somewhere for the USB3 card.
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I had Windows XP become unstable (nice new buggy Ethernet drivers...) and even completely die on me after a service pack update. But thanks to the way Linux works, with its elegant use of separate system and home partitions (if desired), the ability to just scrap / and set the mount point for /home right during install means I never experience what you're talking about. I just nuke the system and use my existing user data, and a fresh install is up and running with all my customizations in no time. A few
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Yeah but those Windows users will spend hours hunting down drivers for old hardware or spend days trying to find cracks and such to get some old Game to work. It really boggles the mind as to why they can't spend five minutes to solve their issue via forums or IRC. It does help to have a friend or family member repairing the issue for you, ask mine.
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Look at it this way, Windows was already entrenched on the desktop by the time Linux came along (and especially by the time it was reasonably mature).
Contrast that with smartphones, where Linux has been a massive success.
So, maybe forking wasn't the dominant issue in the first place.
Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (Score:4, Informative)
LibreOffice already does this pretty much every release!
The licensing for the two allows LO to take any of Apache's changes that they'd like (and they frequently do!), whereas the reverse would require Apache to change the OpenOffice licensing.
Honestly though, as long as they both support the same file format, having two separate suites isn't a bad thing.
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Because they are people? People are whiny and like to get their own way. Open source is not a genetic engineering exercise.
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I prefer LibreOffice approach, release 4.1, and maintain with real critical fixes the 4.0 branch. On the 3.x cycle they always recommended to use the previous stable release, for example 3.4.3 when 3.5.0 was released, when they reached 3.6.0 they switched their recommendation to 3.5.x. Dream you will have real fixes for the 3.x branch of Apache OpenOffice
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3,000 bug fixes (Score:4, Interesting)
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To Infinity and Beyond!
Re:3,000 bug fixes (Score:4, Insightful)
including an experimental improved sidebar
Infinity sounds about right...
Re:3,000 bug fixes (Score:4, Informative)
According to the LibreOffice Bugzilla [libreoffice.org], 2937, if you don't count NEW bugs.
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Re:3,000 bug fixes (Score:4, Informative)
You need to consider that it's a suite of applications, with each one at a different level of maturity.
Three thousand would seem like a big number. Except if you break it down, it might (hypothetically) be a hundred in Writer, a hundred in Calc, and two thousand in Base. And, I wonder how much of these are behind-the-scenes fixes, like changing exception handlers to do something useful instead of logging and then throwing the exception away.
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Automatic Update (Score:2)
Re: Automatic Update (Score:2, Insightful)
Isn't it just "apt-get upgrade" to update?
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No.
Exclusivity of read+write? (Score:2)
improving their exclusive capability in the free software world of not only being able to read but also write .docx and .xlsx files)
Is this really true? I mean, not an office suite, but PHPExcel can read and write Excel files.
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Now if we just had a site to aggregate those announcements/news from all over the web that would make it easy for people to get tech news... Someone should invent that site.
paying the bills (Score:5, Interesting)
Having this done by a group of volunteers is nice & all that.
BUT!
These folks need to travel and smooze with others, both for the publicity, and to keep the ideas about how to do something fresh. Who knows, maybe one of them will put in that killer feature we've all been waiting for?
So when you are done downloading it, take the time to donate, so maybe the 5.0 release can afford a bigger cake. The one I saw in the pix was about 5% of the size of the one it would take to feed all the volunteers a celebratory piece of cake, maybe even with a scoop of ice cream on top. IMNSHO, speaking as a retired person living on SS, I dropped the card to say thanks. Surely the working folks who will make better use of this than I ever will, can better afford to pull out the card?
I would firmly suggest that others do the same if we want to see a 5.0 or higher release. Nothing kills a volunteer operation quicker than not being able to pay the bills.
Cheers, Gene
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Who knows, maybe one of them will put in that killer feature we've all been waiting for?
Like making it able to write clean structured HTML for people who want to write (not code in a text editor)? That would be great, but I wouldn't count on it.
Still waiting for the killer new generation word.processor which focuses on HTML instead of Letter/A4 printing...
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So when you are done downloading it, take the time to donate, so maybe the 5.0 release can afford a bigger cake.
This! Microsoft's stronghold on the Office front requires competition and the world in general needs an open office suit (creating documents is a basic task). Making software is hard and sponsoring it gives a nice boost to advance development.
One more fix they need... (Score:2)
Java to Python (Score:4, Interesting)
Page Break (Score:1)
Still no Page Break line while in Web Layout view.
The biggest setback from having LibreOffice implemented in my company. Word 97 had this feature!
Two criticals things still missing (Score:3)
There's two really critical (IMO) things that the LO devs keep missing:
- Loading time: Libreoffice is the only application which takes time noticable time to load - anything else just pops up instantly. There's even a progress bar. That's too 1999. Only games take that long (or more) to load. .gtkrc-2.0, and most text can barely fit the controls (since they don't seem to resize along with the text, which does respect DPI settings). All this makes me feel like I'm using something totally alien to my desktop, and I feel the need to get done with it and close it ASAP.
- OS integration: Why is the look and feel so slightly alien on my desktop. I've set it to look gtkish, but it still looks alien, the icons have are different from the ones in my
They don't need to merge (Score:2)
There's no need for OpenOffice and LibreOffice to merge. Yes it would be nice in so far as consolidating manpower and reducing confusion, but in terms of functionality and features, anything that is introduced in OpenOffice, the team at LibreOffice take and integrate into their package because they're perfectly allowed to by virtue of the license.
So sticking with LO means you get the maximum number of features with no real loss apart from a less marketable name (which I'm beyond caring about at this point -
Still can't open encrypted/passworded files. (Score:2)
For example, I have clients who use passwords on their Word docx file in their Mac 2011 and Windows 2010 versions. Both OO and LO can't open them still. Full compatibility is still an issue for me. :(
Open Source (Score:4, Informative)
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Unfortunately, OpenOffice can't do the reverse without switching their license.
It's not really unfortunate when it's by design. LibreOffice wants to make Apache OpenOffice become so redundant the project just gives up. This is how open source developers protest work that they feel is being done poorly. They fork the project in a way that allows only one-way code copying, and then try to starve the original of resources and its user base.
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It's not that great of a strategy. LibreOffice is a derivative of OpenOffice and they do risk appearing to be simply a downstream GPLed version of OpenOffice.
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The main risk is that the split in resources will cause both projects to be not good enough. Being perceived as a downstream version of another project, but with additions incompatible with their terms, that doesn't necessarily favor either end. There's a similar relationship between Debian and Ubuntu that turned out to make both more popular. What LibreOffice is trying to do is more like the XFree86 vs. Xorg split though.
Re:Open Source (Score:4, Interesting)
OpenOffice has paid developers. The license allows the sponsor companies to make their own commercial versions with unique features as a way to get a return on their investment. Think Eclipse not XFree86.
LibreOffice is a derivative of OpenOffice. It has features and bug fixes unique to its distribution. LibreOffice uses the GPL to protect their return on investment and not to specifically harm OpenOffice. I'm sure there are some people in LibreOffice that do think that way, but I think LibreOffice needs OpenOffice more than they care to admit.
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Depends on your investment. LibreOffice has invested volunteer hours as well as some sponsored work into making what they believe is a open and free product. The GPL protects their investment by ensuring that any work based on their efforts will also be an open and free product.
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The problem is your reading comprehension. I didn't say that LibreOffice was bad. I was replying to greg's comment and stated that trying "to starve the original of resources and its user base" by one-way code copying is not a great strategy because it risks having LibreOffice appear to simply be a downstream GPLed version of OpenOffice.
The point is moot since LibreOffice appears to want
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From the FAQ from OpenOffice.org
The source code for OpenOffice.org will be nearly all the source code in development for StarOffice. The source code not available for OpenOffice.org is source code or binaries which have been licensed to Sun Microsystems from external parties which Sun Microsystems is not entitled to distribute. Any code which cannot be distributed has been identified and removed.
The
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That's not really what happened. LibreOffice forked back when Oracle had the copyright to OpenOffice and wasn't doing anything with it (including allowing outside commits!). Then, after Libre progressed a bit, Oracle donated the OpenOffice copyright to the Apache foundation.
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That said, I think it was just a troll... nobody actually likes the Ribbon do they?
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The Ribbon's not so bad; it's just a tabbed toolbar that's extra-thick so it can display more information than a normal one. I just want to be able to search the menus too, like you can in LO/Ubuntu.
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Wow some anger issues there Dishevel?!?
There are many valid reasons to have print it out on paper.
1. Locations to mark/edit: I am not a school teacher but I will print out my own work and then I can review it on public transit, at a coffee shop, laying down in bed, or where ever.
2. For many if not most mistakes are easier to see on paper. When I am given docs to review I will sometimes print them out and look at them as a bigger picture and find things that I did not find on the screen.
3. Editing. It is eas
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Annotations work great in the real world. Public school teachers come in two varieties.
New.
Useless Fucks.
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A stylus-based tablet is actually a decent compromise. You get the benefits (and drawbacks) of being electronic, but still get to scribble on it to your heart's content.
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What? Only the teacher needs one.
Though I did intend to say something about many teachers will feel they're not being paid enough to buy one, though.
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Or they could just save it to PDF and print from any modern OS/computer.
And while you may love the ribbon, not all of us do.
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Oh they exist. You just choose to hang around with those who hate it, most likely. Not saying the ribbon's good or bad, but FFS, it was released in 2007. Can't geeks learn how to use it by now? If it was really that useless you'd think the world would have fallen apart by now given how widespread Office is.
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Doofus...
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It's hard enough dealing with the differences between MS Office 2010, Office 2011, and Office 2013. God forbid if someone wanted to use Office 2008.
If, by your own admission, MS Office has trouble being compatible with itself, should LibreOffice really be blamed for running into problems here?
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Meanwhile there's software here that is happily reading in files from the late 1960s because THEY ARE IN A PROPERLY DOCUMENTED STANDARD FILE FORMAT. MS O
OneNote (Score:2)
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Libre Office is available for Windows and the smart cookies would print to pdf from libre office and print the pdf for you to mark.
Meanwhile my University Professors were getting my open office documents in doc format opening them in open office and marking them. It's been a while since I was submitting papers, before oracle.
Is your faculty aware of your discrimination towards your students? Not every student has a silver spoon or working parents. Maybe it really is a question of finance especially since yo
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[snip] Do you know what happens when a student tries to make their lab report in LibreOffice, or on a mac or something, and then uses a school windows computer to print it 2 minutes before class? The formatting gets all messed up, and I doc them points because of it. So you make extra work for yourself. You either have to save time to re work on your document, or you have to own your own printer and save time to use it before class.
Save as pdf. Print the pdf. Where's the problem?
I'm no fan of monopoly.
-Gareth
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I find LO to be more garbage than MS Office. It has a terrible lack of polish. For example, adjusting the row or column position of a table using the mouse in LO Writer in Windows, causes a dotted line to remain on the page after having made the adjustment. It's not supposed to remain because you can clearly see it get wiped off if you scroll down then up the page again. Minimize+maximize resolves the issue, but the fact the developers don't give a shit about such details shows a lack of care towards the us
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Spoken by someone who has no idea Outlook does more than just emails. Or does not understand that people like GUIs.