US Adults Score Poorly On Worldwide Test 745
New submitter Norwell Bob sends this excerpt from an Associated Press report:
"It's long been known that America's school kids haven't measured well compared with international peers. Now, there's a new twist: Adults don't either. In math, reading and problem-solving using technology – all skills considered critical for global competitiveness and economic strength – American adults scored below the international average on a global test, according to results (PDF) released Tuesday."
Decline of the American Empire? (Score:4, Interesting)
Isn't this just one of many signs of the decline of the American Empire? The American oligarchs used to look after their people back in the days when they built their empire but nowadays, the privileged grandchildren of the original oligarchs have forgotten where their wealth and power came from. And so on down the slippery slope...
Computer literacy + social skills (Score:5, Interesting)
More whether or not you can socially function and whether you know the basics of using a computer.
Plumbing, paving roads, being a cashier, managing people, checking meter readings, working an assembly line don't involve much math or English.
Perhaps society only needs a few people per hundred that are great at math? People don't need math skills to drive a semi-truck or make the donuts or take an order or stock a warehouse
Wow, Who'da thunk that? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh yeah, the Americans*, the same group that scored below average. ;-)
* Yeah, yeah, all you Central Americans, South Americans, Mexicans, Canadians, etc., etc. you know that I mean USAians when using the term "Americans".
Does it matter? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Does it matter? (Score:5, Interesting)
The U.S. has been scoring poorly relative to other countries for decades now, and continues to be the world leader in innovation and productivity
Imagine what we, as a nation, could achieve if we were well educated.
Probably about the same as other better educated countries. Americans are not genetically superior beings, nor is our country specially blessed by any deity. One of the reasons we don't score as well as some other countries is because we don't spend as much time in school. Very few other countries have two month summer vacations, for instance. And, at least for me, summer vacation was the time I was most creative and had the most active imagination. I believe those qualities are essential for innovation. (Remember, Thomas Edison had only three weeks of formal schooling.) Chinese students, on the other hand, spend almost every waking moment in school or doing school work. And although they score very well on international tests, employers frequently complain they don't think outside the box, or innovate as well as their American counterparts.
Re:JIT Education (Score:5, Interesting)
After spending a decade as an educator, I can confidently state that very few people can apply concepts that they have just learned. However, many people will be able to apply those concepts when they revisit them. That seems to be true even if they forgot what they originally learned.
That experience leads me to believe that JIT education simply would not work in practice, even though it sounds great. The demand for a traditional education, even for jobs that didn't require an education in the past, leads me to believe that employers know that JIT education (i.e. on the job training) is a risky investment at best and that they may even see it as ineffective.
Re:JIT Education (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the aspect of this test, as far as I understood, is reading comprehension. If that fails, everything else fails, because any other training -- programming included -- requires reading.
There is a surprisingly high share of adults who can not comprehend a text they read (a skill, ironically, often practized in math classes).
Re:Not surprised (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Decline of the American Empire? (Score:1, Interesting)
"oligarchs used to look after their people...".
This is not exactly true. School teachers used to be paid by the parents and were directly answerable to them. And parents cared that their children were taught properly. Now we have neither. Lack of family structure and teacher unions that don't care about good teachers don't exactly make for good education.
Transferring education completely to the control of the government results in the education system equivalent of the U.S. Postal System.
Re:JIT Education (Score:5, Interesting)
People generally forget what they've learned unless they use the knowledge within a few months or so. Americans are work-aholics relatively speaking and thus will bury their head in their here-and-now work such that distant knowledge fades quickly as the immediate situation takes over.
A Just-In-Time education system may be a better approach than trying to hammer in concepts while young hoping they are hammered in deep enough to stay in. That's perhaps not a rational use of time. The 4-year university approach is obsolete, or at least needs big-time augmentation.
Actually, the 4-year university approach is excellent. We should return to it. What is obsolete and never worked well is the job skill training that masquarades as the 4-year university approach. The purpose of college/university used to be to be educated in many subjects, to be well rounded, to be a critical thinker, etc. Today, it is to get a job.
Re:JIT Education (Score:3, Interesting)
Even the very concept of the "school year" itself is based on 1800's agricultural needs of the children to be home working on the farm planting/harvesting crops, which is why there exists such a thing as "summer vacation".
No, the busiest times on a farm are planting in the spring and harvesting in the fall. Back when kids had lots of work to do on the family farm, that's when school breaks were. The traditional summer vacation is an early 20th century invention from the cities.
Re:JIT Education (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Maybe there is hope (Score:5, Interesting)
So they're showing that Americans aren't particularly good at math, yet by and large we succeed well beyond everybody else in most respects. Especially given that we design most of the technology that the rest of the world uses (even manufacture most of it as well - though assembly is another matter,) which in itself necessitates mathematics as well as physics. So who are the ones ultimately doing poorly in all of this?
Most Americans scored poorly on the tests; those same Americans aren't the ones who designs all that technology. America's engineers are a tiny subset of the population, and most likely scored quite well on the test. The vast majority of Americans don't work as engineers or scientists or anything of the sort, they work in service jobs.
Re:Not surprised (Score:4, Interesting)
Only about 10% of that 57% voted when it counted in the primaries because that's when the elections are stacked against the electorate, ensuring the majority will always be corporate flunkies. I seem to remember Obama managed to loose primaries to none of the above.
Not hubris - out of control companies (Score:5, Interesting)
America represented economic freedom - you could own your own house and even your own business, beholden to no-one. Today half of us dream of punishing "those people" who live that way.
Speaking as a non-american that's not what I as your problem. The people who enjoyed that economic freedom created brilliant innovative companies that then decided that economic freedom did not work so well for their profit margins. Worse they found that it was actually a lot easier to smother new and upcoming competition with either lawyers and court cases or by getting laws changed via lobbying than it was to out compete and innovate new companies.
As a result of that you ended up with a lot of companies who are rich from past glories and now use that to just hold everyone at bay slowing down the pace of progress and innovation to a pace they feel comfortable with. Worse you get some companies - yes banks I'm looking at you - who seem to have completely forgotten their raison d'etre (which was to stabilize and grow the economy by providing valuable financial services) and just go for profit at any cost, no matter how destructive and damaging that is to the economy they are supposed to be serving.
So is it any wonder that people are starting to question whether "those people" should live that way? It's not that people have a problem with successful people making money through clever innovations that benefit society - the problem is that there are lots of people making money for doing nothing useful (or even harmful) to society.
Re:McFly, is that you? US DID well until hubris (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Maybe there is hope (Score:2, Interesting)
Also, America still attracts top scientists and alumi from outside. Just read Googles diversity report. This will eventually fade, as we se the US empire do every day now.
Re:Charles Darwin Wrote (Score:4, Interesting)
Beyond culture, it's hope or lack of hope.
So close.
The statistical correlation actually points to poverty as the main cause of crime. Obviously only those crimes that the trolls accuse certain minorities of. Things like serious fraud, war crimes, treason and perjury are not so well correlated to poverty.
Re: Maybe there is hope (Score:1, Interesting)
Not going to attempt to dispute what you experienced, or how it should fare against your home country.
However, I will say that the US is a big place and the "North East" (which likely refers to a well known metropolitan area on the NE coast) is certainly not representative of the whole.
Would I rather live in London than Detroit, hell yes. Would I pick my current US residence over both, I would and I did.
Re: Maybe there is hope (Score:5, Interesting)
Not a troll. My great grandfather was killed by having a spleen burst in a fight for a prime spot. He was a vegetable-cart salesman in Chicago.
He came home, said " tomorrow there'll be one less Greek in Illinois, went to bed, and died two (not one) days later.
My grandfather grew up fatherless.
But people can't imagine living in the Land of the free(*)(tm). My fellow Americans, Let me give you a clue. Any country that speaks of freedom hasn't got it, and any country that calls terrorism, tends to be run exclusively by terrorists. Terrorism means using terror as a tool to rule.