Firefox 29: Redesign 688
An anonymous reader writes "Mozilla today officially launched Firefox 29 for Windows, Mac, Linux, and Android. This is a massive release: Firefox Sync has been revamped and is now powered by Firefox Accounts, there's a new customization mode, and the company's major user interface overhaul Australis has finally arrived. 'The tabs are sleek and smooth to help you navigate the Web faster. It’s easy to see what tab you’re currently visiting and the other tabs fade into the background to be less of a distraction when you’re not using them. The Firefox menu has moved to the right corner of the toolbar and puts all your browser controls in one place. The menu includes a “Customize” tool that transforms Firefox into a powerful customization mode where you can add or move any feature, service or add-on.' Here are the full release notes and a demo video."
more downgrades (Score:4, Insightful)
Firefox becomes less usable and less configurable with each release. Might as well use Chrome at this point, it's virtually indistinguishable.
did you checked the video? (Score:3, Informative)
All lies (Score:5, Interesting)
These: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=13350353&sid=cee01d7621130bd32543a5154b4419c9#p13350353
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
These: http://forums.mozillazine.org/... [mozillazine.org]
One can summarize as
"The Firefox has been REMOVED. You will have to find an add-on that restores functionality."
Re: All lies (Score:3)
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Insightful)
How about a status bar? :)
Seriously, UX folks, just stop.
Your profession's insistence on itself has destroyed Digg, Flickr, Yahoo's message boards, Yahoo's email interface, Slashdot, Firefox, GNOME, and even Windows 8.
Your profession is a cancer upon this industry worse than marketing.
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Funny)
you're just not ready for a future dominated by retards.
but resistance is futile. you will be UXed.
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:4, Insightful)
And that's exactly what it is, the dumbing down, making the Internet a TV set.
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And if you don't like it, then you're an "elitist."
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And that's exactly what it is, the dumbing down, making the Internet a TV set.
Well, Firefox 29 does also improve builtin web developer tools significantly.
Memory hogging: Add-ons for re-starting Firefox (Score:4, Informative)
Let me guess: The new version of Firefox will be even less stable. The memory-hogging flaws have not been fixed. The memory-hogging flaws are so widely acknowledged that there are add-ons for re-starting Firefox: Firefox Re-start Add-ons. [mozilla.org] I use Restartless Restart. [mozilla.org]
Please no obvious replies to this. Please don't make it necessary to post my list of 22 excuses for not fixing the Firefox memory hogging again.
I'm having another problem with the latest version of Firefox. The toolbar icons change back to the default. I have to go to View > Toolbars > Customize and take away the ones I don't want and put back the ones I want.
Also, when I log into Slashdot, I'm recognized as my user name. However, often when I open a tab for a Slashdot story, the story shows that I am not logged in, and logging in at that tab does nothing. Re-starting Firefox fixes that problem for a while.
Pale Moon: Firefox with adult supervision. (Score:5, Informative)
Two examples: In Firefox the "Find in page" field is on the left and the "Highlight All" and "Match Case" buttons are on the right. In Pale Moon they are together so that you immediately see if something is chosen from a former search.
Pale Moon has a 64-bit version. Firefox doesn't. The 64-bit Pale Moon uses the Firefox add-ons; no problem there except with some unusual add-ons.
Pale Moon is completely independent. Pale Moon is in no way associated with Mozilla Foundation. [palemoon.org]
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
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Idiocracy is coming, whether you want it or not. Might as well get used to it.
Re: (Score:3)
"go away! Makin'!"
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Insightful)
I actually love the lack of status bar
And until recently people like you could simply turn it off, while people like me could turn it on.
This seemed to be working fine for both of us. What was improved by changing this status quo?
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Funny)
The developers could not sleep because you changed the defaults and the great UI they designed.
Now they can sleep well without nightmares of users configuring the software to their needs.
Re: (Score:3)
Before it was removed, you could turn it off and lose the way of telling where a link pointed to. So not the same thing. With all respect, it didn't really have other uses anymore, except that's historically where Netscape 4.x put some icons. Some extensions would display things there and that's about it.
I do always make sure I use a file manager that has a status bar.
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:4, Insightful)
[...] With all respect, it didn't really have other uses anymore, except [...] Some extensions would display things there [...]
Well, thank you very much for spelling out the very reason this change is a disaster. My browser toolbar is becoming more crowded by the week, and my extensions have lost the ability to display any text in the UI but are limited to one or a handful of icons. NoScript has been significantly impaired by this.
I am all for sleek sexy interfaces and killing old cruft and clutter. But "UX" has become a term non grata around the office of late thanks to all the morons who use it as an excuse for taking away control from the user.
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Informative)
With all respect, it didn't really have other uses anymore,
Thats sort of buying a van, and then having the dealer gradually remove all the doors and windows from a van and then declaring that you don't need all that cargo space either because it doesn't have any uses since you can't get to it, and then removing the removing the space too leaving you with a nice little 2 seater smart car.
But the whole reason I bought this car in the first place is because I wanted a VAN. Doors, windows, cargo space.
There are a LOT of things you could do with a status bar. You could display status... like WHAT THE FUCK IS THE BROWSER IS DOING RIGHT NOW now aka "STATUS"? I mean sure there is a spinning green circle in the tab icon space and that's all we get for feedback?
Download speed, how many items are in the download manager queue, dns look ups, time outs, server errors, do I have internet access, page validation status, plugins starting up, encryption characteristics, extensions / addon messages, what is it doing with cookies... I can imagine more things to do with the status bar then will FIT in 5 status bars. Do I want or need all of those all the time? Hell no... but I'm using firefox because I want more advanced feedback than a spinning circle.
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:4, Insightful)
If others need to turn it Off and others to turn it On, then it is broken as it can't exist.
Or it could prompt you the first time it loads to select a preference. Just saying. I don't think is the best solution, but the dilemma is easily resolved without having an initial default state.
I prefer the default being disabled.
I don't care what the default is to be honest; as long as it respects my choice once i've made it. Removing the option entirely is the problem.
Re: did you checked the video? (Score:3)
The point of the status bar is to give you the status of the current HTTP request.
It is very useful to know if data is being fetched or a name is being resolved.
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Funny)
There is no such thing as a UX professional. They're all idiots. OMG, make it orange!
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am old enough to remember when UI's were very good. text on green screen terminal that were made to do exactly what was needed and were as simple as possible. Then computers got more powerful and people started designing GUIs that did in fact suck because the keyboard functions people had learned no longer worked or worked differently. Everything was quirky and ran very slow. Then hardware caught up and design got much better. Then web apps started to take off and the UIs sucked because of limited browser features and rookie web developers. Then programming tools and browser features improved and "web 2.0" UIs took hold and they got much better. Most of this evolution in design was driven to create the "next big thing", to wow users into wanting your design.
Now we are in a stagnant period where no new ground breaking PC technology has come along for a while. Tablets and smartphones took off so they appear to be getting all the attention. Designers and developers hungry to be on the verge of the next big thing are focusing on tablets and copying the big players like Google and Apple. At these companies design decisions are being made based on revenue streams rather than testing and user feedback. How do we make our product maintain it's branding? How to we guide the user into our revenue stream? It is no longer about what the users want tor need it is about forcing users into a tranche that can be exploited.
Re: (Score:3)
What in the fuck is going on?
As best I can tell, what's happening in the UX world is similar to what happened to fashion and hairstyles in the 1970s. (Almost) everybody just went crazy overnight for some reason. Some kind of brain parasite, maybe, carried by cats or birds.
The trend will eventually recede as quickly as it arrived, as plagues always do. Then we'll see functional, user-configurable interface design come back into favor. I've given up, personally. I'm just going to stop complaining and wai
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Informative)
According to the video you can select the icons and menus you want to display in the toolbar... that include all the addons/plugins/extensions too. What customization has been dropped?
The video is deliberately misleading and the claim of "a powerful customization mode where you can add or move any feature" is a complete lie.
A few examples:
Tabs On Top -- No thanks, I want my tabs below the URL bar, where God intended them to be. First, they removed the menu item a while back. No problem, I can just go into about:config and change it. But just removing the menu item and burying the setting in about:config isn't enough. With Australis, even if you go into about:config and change the setting, it does nothing. Firefox says: Fuck You. You're getting Tabs On Top whether you like it or not.
There are only 2 toolbars - Menu bar and Bookmarks toolbar. No more Add-On Bar, which means the Status Bar Extension doesn't work because there's no place to put it. Firefox says: You want a Status Bar? Fuck You. Sure there's probably some hidden fiddling you can do to work around the problem, but that just proves my point -- A user should not have to spend copious amounts of effort just to restore the standard and expected UI.
In Australis the Back and Forward buttons are now glued to the URL Bar, so you can't arrange your buttons any way you like. The Reload Button has been replaced with a swirly arrow that is glued to the far right side of the URL Bar and can't be moved, and the Stop Button is gone completely. Want text labels with your buttons? Firefox says: Fuck you.
There's a lot more, but I give up. If I wanted a browser with a lousy UI that can't be changed, I would use Internet Explorer or Chrome.
Just as I feared -- Firefox has joined the growing list of applications that can never be updated because the new version sucks.
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Informative)
You might like the Classic Theme Restorer [mozilla.org] addon. Tabs back down, multiple bars, back/forward separated and arbitrarily movable, reload next to them, addon bar back at the bottom, and text labels on everything.
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I want to thank you for this, it makes Firefox 29 usable again.
But part of me wonders if I'm missing the point, if they're so intent on breaking it then might I as well just move browsers now? If I'm having to rely on addons to make a browser work then am I not just sat precariously one step away from Mozilla deciding that addon is unacceptable and cancelling it anyway?
Perhaps it's time for a browser move regardless of the fact this exists, but again, thank you all the same, at least it buys me time to figu
Re:and addons work on a new firefox? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes. This addon was specifically developed for FF29 to deal with the new GUI.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Tabs On Top -- No thanks, I want my tabs below the URL bar, where God intended them to be.
That's because you are not using your brain. It makes strictly NO SENSE to have the address bar on top of the tab bar. For each tab in the bar, I expect the info of the particular page to be WITHIN the tab not somewhere else (like, on top).
And, on a side note, I hate the fact that the searches are common to all tab on the same basis as previously.
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Informative)
For a traditional UI in Mozilla plus all the other goodies you miss, Look no further [seamonkey-project.org]
Re:did you checked the video? (Score:5, Interesting)
According to the video... great, well, I just updated and tried it. Turns out my tabs now have a dark grey background with black text which is completely and utterly unreadable. I managed to get my title and menu bar back, but my status bar appears to have permanently fucked off. I'd like to imagine given that we have a great big ad here on Slashdot about how awesomely customisable it is that I can do something about the horrendously shit dark grey background that is too close to the black of the tab text, but I'll be damned if I can see any option whatsoever to actually do that.
But here's a better question, why rather than a browser update working for me, making things better, does it instead mean I have to dick around figuring out how to make it work like it's always worked and like I want it to work? Why do I have to fear updates wondering what the fuck they've broken now, or what the hell I'm going to have to get used to this time?
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I would, if Chrome supported a NoScript type plugin.
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Well, it's called ScriptSafe, and I'm running it right now.
It certainly does exist.
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But exactly what I would expect from a browser written by an advertising company.
I want no part of chrome or chromium. it has that bad google taste to it.
if google touched it, its not trustable. my (not so new) motto.
Re:more downgrades (Score:5, Insightful)
I run with NoScript on Firefox, and unfortunately I'm finding more and more web sites are unusable without Javascript enabled not just for them (and the cloud provider, who could be serving up god-knows-what) but for zillions of "partners". I don't know what those partners are providing, either: probably mostly ancillary crap but the page won't render until it's downloaded.
I keep a NoScripted Firefox for any time I'm visiting web sites that I don't know beforehand; if they don't render then I don't need it that badly. But on my work computers, where I'm browsing only sites that I have reason to believe have things I need and aren't too terribly likely to be hijacked, I've found I just had to turn NoScript off.
That sucks, because the fact is that the vast majority of sites do shit with Javascript that the site would be just plain better off without. I don't object to their need to earn a living by feeding me ads, which is why I don't run with an ad blocker, but Javascript is very easy to abuse, and too many of them create abusive design.
Re:more downgrades (Score:5, Informative)
I would, if Chrome supported a NoScript type plugin.
Actually Chrome allows you to selectively disable Javascript by domain. Chrome's only good feature and a feature that I wish Firefox would copy.
NoScript blocks all Javascript by default and forces you to manually whitelist everything. Unfortunately, that's now the exact opposite of what we need. NoScript was created back in the old days when you could completely disable Javascript and most websites would still mostly work. Now, more and more sites won't load at all -- you literally get a blank page -- without Javascript.
Re:more downgrades (Score:4, Informative)
If you don't like Australis, there's an extension to make Firefox look like classic. If you think the Australis buttons are too large (like me) then you can install an extension to make them smaller.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:more downgrades (Score:5, Insightful)
True, and it not just configurability. It's been on a persistent and unshakeable course of deteriorating functionality and usability for years. Even sticking to the long-term releases and avoiding the newest breakage it's still awful and obviously only getting worse. I think there is a real need for a fork of firefox and a sane team to maintain it, and I would be happy to contribute to some form of crowdfunding to bring it about, but...
"Might as well use Chrome at this point, it's virtually indistinguishable."
Sorry, I still think you are off-base here. As horrid as Firefox has become, it still has a ways to go before it can compete with Chrome for worst browser. It still uses the file system more-or-less correctly, and it's still possible (with extensions, at least) to disable javascript properly.
Firefox is horrible but it's still the best general purpose browser available, that's what makes the whole situation so horrific. If there were any other browser that were better I would be happy to switch, but these days it seems they all aspire to become adware just like chrome.
Re:more downgrades (Score:4, Informative)
Have a look at SeaMonkey. It is the way Firefox used to be before it all started to go to shit when Chrome came out. It is as far as I know, the last real browser being maintained, since Opera died.
You get extension compatibility with FF, too.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Opera died in the sense that it is no longer a leader in browser technology, as it has been for well over a decade, and is just skinning the Chromium project now. Out of context, that's okay, there have been plenty of skinning projects over the years that have been worth merit, but its the equivalent of say, Mozilla just giving up and using the IE engine and building a shell around it. They have ditched all of their code, from what I can tell, and unless you are keen on Chromium in general, I don't really s
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Someone asked the Seamonkey developers months ago if they were going to implement Australis: No, not enough resources, not enough interest.
Firefox are essentially making the same step Microsoft did with Windows 8 - unifying their look-and-feel across platforms (PC/Laptop, Tablet, Phone) and we all know how that went. Seamonkey makes absolutely no sense on a Tablet or Phone so the developers feel no need to move that way. What could cause problems in the medium term - and I simply don't know if this is a
Addon: Classic Theme Restorer (Score:5, Informative)
For those that want the old GUI back: Classic Theme Restorer [mozilla.org].
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I'm just about over it. Now I need something like 10 different add-ons and a shitload of about:config editing just to get it back to square one. Honestly, if firefox has made any improvements since the 3.x series, I don't know what they are. All I see is regressions. OK, maybe the security is better. That's one point for firefox, and 100 points against.
We need a new "phoenix" -- one that I can simply install and begin using, not one that I need to work for hours on before using.
Re:Addon: Classic Theme Restorer (Score:5, Informative)
"if firefox has made any improvements since the 3.x series, I don't know what they are."
Like, pretty much anything that is not visible at first glance? Standards support, memory management, add-on handling, JavaScript performance, responsiveness, developer tools, networking, etc
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sudo apt-mark hold firefox firefox-locale-en
that's my fix.
fuck you, firefox. your 'upgrades' have broken so much over time and costed me 'fix it back again, time' that I'm done with your upgrades.
I'll take my chances with security bugs; I prefer that problem to your endless 'change for change sake' attitude.
I value my plugins on FF and I will not risk losing any more time having to re-fix what you guys broke.
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Please use the ESR version, that'd be nicer and you wouldn't be encouraging the noobs to not update their software for fixes of security faults.
no no no. (Score:2)
Seriously, I just want to access web pages, I want to think about the browser itself as little as possible.
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All,... I,.... want,.... is,.... an,.... expletive,.... web,.... browser!
Seriously, I just want to access web pages, I want to think about the browser itself as little as possible.
Try surf. It meets and exceeds your requirements by also being able to follow links!
http://surf.suckless.org/ [suckless.org]
No combined address/search bar? (Score:2)
Then I'm not interested. Seriously, chrome has gotten me way to lazy in this regard. And FF has frustrated me on this since (and yes, I know there is an add-on).
It has a combined address/search bar (Score:5, Informative)
You can search in the address bar. I do it all the time. No special add-ons needed either. It will search your default search engine very similar to Chrome. Why they have an additional search bar I don't really know. I never use it because I don't need to.
Re:It has a combined address/search bar (Score:5, Interesting)
Type a single-word search query into the address bar in Firefox. Instead of searching for the word right away the browser attempts a DNS lookup. With the search bar that DNS lookup step is removed. For the more privacy-conscious this is an important thing. Especially if you've got an ISP that redirects a failed DNS response to their own search engine.
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You can also use custom keywords with Bookmarks:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Usin... [mozillazine.org]
I alias google to "g", so when I want to search, i just type in the location bar: "g these are my search terms".
It's also practical to do Google searches in specific languages. For example, I use "ge" for google-english, "gf" for google-french, etc.
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If you begin a search with the question mark it doesn't do a DNS lookup, it just sends it straight to search.
So searching for:
?these are my search terms
does what you want.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:It has a combined address/search bar (Score:5, Funny)
You can search in the address bar.
You can piss in a sink too... doesn't mean using one facility for two different functions is a good thing.
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You can piss in a sink too... doesn't mean using one facility for two different functions is a good thing.
I brush my teeth in the toilet, you insensitive clod!
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Thats funny because I found not only that firefox does this by default....but I can thankfully disable this terrible feature. The one thing I have NEVER EVER wanted when I type into an address bar....is to have it do a search. In fact, if I type in a url and its an error....I just want the motherfucking error thanks. Please do NOT do a search and whatever you do....do NOT forward me to a new URL and deny me the ability to edit the one I just typed in.
SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid (Score:3)
I switched to chromium just for that. FF just feels much more ponderous.
No, just NO. (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop redecorating my desktop. If I wanted a browser that looks like Chrome, I would install Chrome. If I wanted a browser that looks like it's meant to be used on a touch screen (just where did that menu of icons come from...), I would use a tablet. This is my NON-TOUCH DESKTOP you're ruining.
Why does everybody seem hellbent on killing the traditional desktop? Are you bored? Running out of bugs to fix?
Stop moving things around! Every time you do that, I lose something that I've become accustomed to for no good reason at all. That's like moving a table a couple of inches, making me bump into it for a couple weeks, and then you change it some more. Or changing the height of the stair steps. Don't do that. It's at best irritating.
I am seriously fed up with this shit.
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Stop moving things around! Every time you do that, I lose something that I've become accustomed to for no good reason at all. That's like moving a table a couple of inches, making me bump into it for a couple weeks, and then you change it some more. Or changing the height of the stair steps. Don't do that. It's at best irritating.
Picture a car where every few years they moved the gearshift and the turn signal. Sometimes to the old places for each. I can't see anything bad happening there...
woo (Score:5, Insightful)
The tabs are sleek and smooth to help you navigate the Web faster.
Well that's a fucking relief. I've been slogging awa with these slightly squarer tabs for months and my productivity has been in the toilet as a result.
Seriously, do they have any actual metrics that the new tabs actually help anyone "navigate the web faster" ?
Itâ(TM)s easy to see what tab youâ(TM)re currently visiting
It was already easy.
and the other tabs fade into the background to be less of a distraction when youâ(TM)re not using them.
Tweaking the relative brightness between current and other tabs hardly counts as revolutionary. I'm indifferent at best.
The Firefox menu has moved to the right corner of the toolbar and puts all your browser controls in one place.
I get how this different, but how is this, in any way 'better'?
I can't wait for this to get into cars. Who doesn't want a perfectly empty dashboard with all the controls crammed into the right corner.
In all seriousness, whoop-dee-doo so they moved the top left menu to the top right, but now its got that newish 3 bar icon which has come to mean "we stuck the menu here".
I guess people who heretofore have only ever used a twitter app will will finally be able to find the firefox menu that had been eluding them, hidden away in the top left.
The menu includes a âoeCustomizeâ tool that transforms Firefox into a powerful customization mode where you can add or move any feature, service or add-on.'
All it needs is to say "Don't Panic!" in large friendly letters.
Re:woo (Score:5, Funny)
Rounded tabs help you get through the Internet tubes faster.
Re:woo (Score:4, Insightful)
ou're right. They should have stopped at the previous version
Never said that. I merely said 'whoop-dee-doo'.
Damn progression! Who cares if most consumers are drawn to a minimalist interface. We want it to look the same. Forever.
So provide it as yet another skin. Make it the new default for new installs even.
Its not really any better or worse than the old one... but it does make it look more like chrome if that's the itch you wanted to scratch.
I'm not mocking them because I prefer the old one, I'm mocking them because they said idiotic fluff like "Rounded tabs that make navigating the web faster"
I don't really care one way or the other about the new look. But the features they made a big to-do about should have just been another skin.
tabs on bottom have been removed (Score:2)
Well agenda to force tabs on top (next to title bar) upon all users has won... you no longer even have option to move them between address bar and web content. Last few versions had at least configuration option buried in about:config. Maybe not a big deal, but to me it requires more mouse movement from content to tab switching - which is opposite of what good UI design is.
Forcing bad UI to users : how did it work for Microsoft, Mozilla?
Re:tabs on bottom have been removed (Score:4, Interesting)
If a private corp did this, it would be okay since the boss calls the shots and if you don't like it, move to a competitor's product.
But a so-called community product like Firefox should be controlled by the public. Who are the secret little fascists that are deciding what should be added or changed without the approval of users? All Firefox changes (new features/changing existing features), except bug fixes, should go through a community vote before being implemented. Is this a fair request?
Use Pale Moon instead. (Score:3, Informative)
It's a fork of FF engine with the older interface (from around version 26 I believe).
If I wanted a Chrome interface, I'd use Chrome (Score:3)
I haven't gotten this update yet but it looks like they turned the user interface into a Chrome rip-off.
I am going to be very upset if all of my userChrome customization work breaks as a result of this. I don't want tabs; I want traditional Windows-style menus, not an all-in-one dropdown; I want the toolbar (including Back and Forward buttons) on its own line. A couple of releases ago I had to add some extra userChrome lines so it wouldn't show 1 useless tab, because they removed the setting for that. And now these genius "UI designers" are screwing everything up again.
Dammit, just leave it alone. I hate UI designers. They break everything they touch.
Re:If I wanted a Chrome interface, I'd use Chrome (Score:4, Insightful)
... I hate UI designers. They break everything they touch.
UI designers are constantly trying to stay relevant. That is why they are continually changing the UI. They say the new version is better. They *always* say the new version is better. But a UI designer does not understand the very real difference between "different" and "better". To a UI designer, "different" is better, by definition. That is why they are always changing UIs, usually for the worse.
So much effort... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet not one "feature" gives me what I really want, the ability to leave my UI the same while upgrading all the "under the hood features" and security fixes.
Re: (Score:3)
Yet not one "feature" gives me what I really want, the ability to leave my UI the same while upgrading all the "under the hood features" and security fixes.
That is because you are an ignorant slob who wouldn't know good design if it bit you in the ass. You should be thankful that someone educated in the arts and in usability is improving your interface for you. Who wants to use those crappy, non-artistic interfaces that were "designed" by unenlightened engineers from days long forgotten?
Essentially, if you object to the interface, you are just an old fashioned luddite who is incapable of adapting to the modern world.
(this is the way "they" appear to think. not
I still use Firefox...on a Mac, occasionally (Score:3)
I still use Firefox...on a Mac, occasionally. Actually, I don't use it but my wife does once in awhile. Her work requires either IE or Firefox. I miss the original Firefox philosophy: speed, stability, and security. OK, Firefox was never that stable (always leaking memory) and rarely the fastest. But it generally worked well and did the job.
Poor Firefox what have they done to you? (Score:3, Insightful)
I dread each new Firefox release - how will they cripple and degrade the browser this time? This is the worst for me since they removed the status bar. Maybe one of the conditions of the Google funding is to gradually fuck up the browser to make it less attractive to those who don't like Chrome or IE?
Fucking fucking fucking fucking shitbags (Score:5, Insightful)
> It's easy to see what tab you're currently visiting
> and the other tabs fade into the background to be
> less of a distraction when you're not using them.
I swear, if I ever meet a guy in a bar and he says he's on the UX team at Mozilla, I'm going to punch him in the dick as hard as I can. Now that all the background tabs are a mushy mass of grey, it is HARDER to tell them apart and jump to the one you want next. WHY DO YOU THINK TABS EXIST?!?!?
"when you're not using them" -- do you know what constitutes USING tabs? FINDING THEM AND CLICKING ON THEM.
Gee assholes, why don't you just put all my tabs behind that bullshit menu icon in the top right? That's be SUPER clean and easy-to-use! Out of sight, but right there when you need them! >:-|
If I wanted to know the title of the page I'M LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW -- not usually needed because I'M LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW -- I can glance at the title bar OH WHOOPS WAIT THAT'S FUCKING GONE TOO. Fucking retards.
Yes, I got the fucking extension to un-fuck-up the theme, [mozilla.org] but I shouldn't have to do this all the time.
Now, if they actually FIXED the sync, so you can just log in and not jump through the bullshit hoops of having a DIFFERENT instance of it open so you can type in the stupid PIN (WTF are you supposed to do if you want to sync two non-portable computers in different places?), *THAT* will be some progress.
For everything else, click here and tell them how much they suck. [mozilla.org]
And finally, a note to ALL browser makers: "View" -> "Source" should be a top-level menu, not buried behind some "developer tools" bullshit. FF, Safari, Chrome -- you're all guilty. "View source" is what made the web great. It SHOULD be easy to get at.
The new design is okay I guess (Score:3)
This is terrible. (Score:5, Insightful)
I love Firefox and have used it for years. I've put up with all the updates and changes and ridiculous behaviour since they started this rapid development cycle.
There's been some improvements. But every couple of releases my plugins break because they've removed some functionality or changed something. I can put up with that; software changes and needs maintenance.
This is the first upgrade I've done where my interface has been changed this significantly.
The Add-on bar is gone. Can't replace it without an extension. I have (well, had) tools in that I used daily.
Tabs now on top. Can't move them back to the bottom. Here's a two year old Bugzilla [mozilla.org] filled with people pleading that it remain an option.
There appears to be extensions to fix all this. But what's the fucking point any more? I'm sick of fighting to keep Firefox looking and working like Firefox if all they're going to do is take away the things that I actually use it for. It's just too much effort.
Mozilla, you used to be a leader. Now you're a follower. I know so few people that are still using Firefox - most people I talk to are surprised that I don't use Chrome - why are you going out of your way to alienate those of us that are left?
DETEST (Score:3)
I absolutely, positively *DETEST* the UI redesign. I immediately installed https://addons.mozilla.org/en-... [mozilla.org]
I have no idea why they would want to ruin a perfectly good browser like this. There is nothing wrong with having REAL menus on the top line, nor the ability to have tabs on the bottom, where they belong. It is beyond reason why they would not make such a change OPTIONAL... resorting to an addon is a huge and irritating kludge that will annoy the S*** out of me every time I have to install a new Firefox somewhere and will likely cause breakage later.
Color me very, very annoyed.
New but inferior sync (Score:5, Informative)
So, the new FF finally implemented a more userfriendly sync functionality. Apparently less than 1% of its users was using the old (but very secure system). The new sync system is (unsurprisingly) similar to Chrome's sync system: you create an account, when you log in your info is encrypted based on your account password and uploaded to Mozilla's servers.
What I cannot get my head around is that Mozilla claims they cannot access your data (as they don't know your password) but that they are able to reset a lost password... how can that be a secure system??
Also, in the new version it's no longer possible to use a master password... if you want to use sync all your password will be in plaintext (well, obfuscated) in FF's password file. Any malicious or vulnerable application can get access to ALL your passwords. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=995268
Doesn't sound like an improvement to me...
Re:New but inferior sync. MOD PARENT UP! (Score:4, Informative)
All I want is a browser again (Score:3)
Over the past decade, I've watched browsers get more and more non-browsing features. Really, I'm not at all interested. Yes I'm a web developer, no I don't need the development console; I don't need the developer tools; I don't need the javascript error console either. I don't need plug-ins, I don't need add-ons. I don't need network monitors. I don't need customizable toolbars; I don't need toolbars at all.
I need an address bar. Tabs still don't work the way I would find valuable, so I can take them or leave them. Smart address bars don't provide the features I'd want either, so I don't need that either. Spellcheck is also just as useless as it's always been for anyone working across multiple jargonous industries.
All I've ever wanted is a window, with a titlebar and a border, and the web page on the inside. The closest thing to stripped-down that I seem to be able to get is a stripped-down IE -- I can get it down to a fairly thin address bar with or without tabs. Everything else (safari, opera, chrome, firefox) is either slow, bloated with features, bloated with icons, or bloated with "usability"; or it takes ten seconds to open a new process, or you can't open a new process (process vs window), or it just eats memory.
I don't need a UI. The web-page is the UI. I don't need a UI to a UI. I have a mouse, and a keyboard, and a web-site. The browser ought to be transparent.
And they still don't show upload progress. It's been thirty years of download progress though. I'm just saying.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah if I wanted a browser with no conventional pull-down menus and no title bar I'd use Chrome.
Unless you change it (Score:3)
Yeah if I wanted a browser with no conventional pull-down menus and no title bar I'd use Chrome.
So enable the pull downs and title bar. They're still there and still available. I'm using it that way now.
Re: (Score:2)
That's good to know, nice that's an option.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Unless you change it (Score:5, Insightful)
Not a UI/UX designer so I have to ask, why have designers hidden these basic menus in most browsers these days? Is it because they want their browser to be "cleaner" by default? For me the 20 or so pixels that are saved by hiding the menu bar isn't worth the inconvenience of always having to turn these menus back on. I can't recall anyone I know mentioning how they hate the file menu and wish it were hidden by default on a PC.
If they actually cared what users did with it we would never have had, KDE 4, Unity, Gnome Shell, Windows 8, and so on... They simply don't care how you use it. They are alone in their echo chamber looking at the new shiny, going "Ohh... We should do that." Then they wonder why they are suddenly abandon and running out of money. http://tech.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]
It's a fad (Score:3)
Not a UI/UX designer so I have to ask, why have designers hidden these basic menus in most browsers these days?
I think it's a fad and a rather annoying one at that because they tend to overdo it. They try so hard to hide things for the sake of appearance that they hide things that shouldn't be hidden. They worry about making it pretty instead of making it functional. I want functional first and if pretty follows then that's great.
Basically it's designers who understand aesthetics but not function. Artists without any engineering sense.
Re: (Score:3)
i am one of those that has 150+ tabs open at the same time on occasion and on my machine FF just can't handle that
Funny, I am one of those "Open in new window" guys who still prefers new windows over tabs. I'm beginning to think I'm the only one.
Re:as fast as Chrome? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
That's not how it should ebhave (Score:2, Insightful)
That may be a bug or a malfunctioning/misbehaving add-on: try standard diagnostics: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Standard_diagnostic_-_Firefox
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Free speach [sic], you say? Obligatory xkcd [xkcd.com]. The CEO has a Constitution-enshrined right to say whatever he wants without fear of criminal prosecution, but Mozilla also has a right to boot him out of the company for it.
Re: (Score:2)
So what pure-as-the-driven-snow browser did you install? Epiphany? Links2? Konq?
Re:Is it going to break the API? (Score:5, Insightful)
Two things:
1) So, Firefox et al haven't "solved" a damned thing, they've just assumed that RAM is cheap and plentiful? I hope nobody is taking credit for that bullshit reasoning.
2) It's my fucking memory, and I may or may not be using it for other things. I've got 8GB on my machine, and every day or so I need to shut down Firefox to reclaim the memory it's been leaking. Firefox starts at around 300MB of RAM, and grows to 1GB if I let it.
Oh, and 3), go fuck yourself.
Re:Is it going to break the API? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
I had 4GB and upgraded to 8GB, and have 1200+ tabs open in 19 windows. Firefox is fast, and the whole laptop is smooth.
Just install NoScript and don't enable Javascript for any but the sites you use more often. This way Flash ads will not play, and memory usage will be far less.
And make sure you disable Firebug as well as YSl
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
I forgot to add ---
I knew there was a reason i use SEAMONKEY as my default browser
at least for now there is Firefox 24 LTS
Re: (Score:3)
I have to admit that I also noticed this improvement. The last several versions of Firefox were becoming very painful to use because of such performance issues and I would have to close and reload Firefox every few days because of it.
Everything seems MUCH faster now. It is a shame they ruined the user interface at the same time :(