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The Almighty Buck Microsoft Windows

Microsoft Trademarks "Windows 365" 191

jones_supa writes The talks about a subscription-based Windows have begun again. With Windows 10 those ideas did not materialize in the way that many had speculated. Even though Microsoft has not fully detailed its Windows 10 pricing strategy, it is not believed that Microsoft is targeting an annual subscription charge for Windows at this time. However, it turns out that Microsoft has recently filed for a trademark for Windows 365, which adds a bit of fuel to the subscription based version of Windows. As of right now, Microsoft has only claimed this branding right, but as for what they will do with it, only time will tell. Deep inside the company, the idea is clearly still bubbling there.
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Microsoft Trademarks "Windows 365"

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  • Hard To Imagine... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sycodon ( 149926 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:09PM (#49018037)

    ...Consumers and hobbyists signing on to a perpetual Microsoft tax.

    I have my doubts about large customers also. Many stick with a single version of windows for years and years because they want a stable computing environment.

    Well, as stable as it can be with Microsoft.

    • With Steam Linux I've been very close to just moving everything I have over to Linux. Maybe I should make use of my Windows 10 Preview partition to try that out...
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by CastrTroy ( 595695 )
      Really depends on how they price it. I have couple old machines that are still running Windows XP, because it's at least $100 for the most recent version of Windows and I can't justify spending $100 all at once on a machine that isn't even worth $100. Now if it was only $20-$30 a year, I might pay for a year or two of the current version of Windows. I might spend more in the long term, assuming I keep those machines around a long time, but it's hard to say.
      • by xaxa ( 988988 )

        I installed LibreOffice on my mum's computer in December (she no longer had a license to use MS Office, having retired from teaching). She was skeptical at first, but after a week phoned me to say it was working fine with her "complicated" accounting spreadsheet.

        I don't know what she'd say to Linux at the moment, but $20-30/year could provide some motivation to switch.

        Alternatively, some money to Canonical, RedHat, SuSE etc could fund improvements, and MS changing a subscription should make it easier for t

      • by epyT-R ( 613989 )

        I'd never let my systems run on dead man switches like that.

      • Agreed.

        $20/year would get a LOT of people on board.

        $10/month -- a lot of people will pass on that. Quite a few friends will NEVER support Adobe ever again now that they want a perptual $10/month for Photoshop CC.

        Say NO to software rendering

    • >> Hard To Imagine Consumers and hobbyists signing on to a perpetual Microsoft tax

      Why? That's how cell phone providers and cable TV providers and ISPs already do it. You just bury the cost of the OS and office environment in the service charge and...Voilà!

      • by sycodon ( 149926 )

        I think consumers are just used to one purchase when it comes computers and software. You pay, you own it, it's yours.

        I don't know how their Office subscription is doing though, so maybe they've snookered some people into getting used to it.

        • by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @03:34PM (#49019979) Journal

          I don't know how their Office subscription is doing though, so maybe they've snookered some people into getting used to it.

          I like the Office 365 subscription [microsoftstore.com]. It's $10/month (versus $400 for Office Pro), I get regular updates, and I can install it on 5 machines and 5 phones. I currently have it installed on 4 laptops and two phones. To do those installs via hard media would be $1600. It'll take over 13 years of subscription to meet the price of buying the equivalent suites for my installs. And with Microsoft rolling significant updates every couple years, this is a vastly cheaper way for me to keep up with the releases. Not sure how the leads to being "snookered"...

          • There hasn't been a significant update for office in a decade or more.

            All they ever do is rearrange the menus and make things generally worse.

      • Why? That's how cell phone providers and cable TV providers and ISPs already do it.

        The TV, ISP, and phone companies provide ongoing services. I could maybe see paying for ongoing security updates, but not for access to use the software on my own hardware, assuming I was fine with running it without updates.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:26PM (#49018227)

      Every computer will come with it and you won't be able to get a game or new hardware without having to check extensively that it supports Linux (or BSD) and find that it doesn't yet.

      You won't be able to get older versions.

      You won't be allowed on the internet without a "supported OS".

      You will have no choice in this matter except not to play at all and give up computers. And then if enough do that, it will be "explained" as being due to piracy or some other guff.

    • by spacepimp ( 664856 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:45PM (#49018411)

      Well if Windows becomes a rental system, then wouldn't that spell the immediate removal of the MS tax, and that the base OS can't essentially be pirated any longer? Meaning All hardware companies can freely put any OS or none on there without fear of reproach?

      • Well if Windows becomes a rental system, then wouldn't that spell the immediate removal of the MS tax, and that the base OS can't essentially be pirated any longer? Meaning All hardware companies can freely put any OS or none on there without fear of reproach?

        I don't think it would.

        Instead of getting Windows for "free" from the OEMs, they will give you "one year for free". The OEMs will still have to pay Microsoft but - as ever - the OEMs will get a discounted rate for that "free year". I'm sure it will als

    • by mlts ( 1038732 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:45PM (#49018417)

      I can see something similar to O365. However, would the enterprise want to license production servers on this scale and have a glitch cause them to shut down? Good luck with that. The only way I can see something like this happening is using a KMS-like mechanism, but even then, there are many companies who run Windows air-gapped where a KMS would be unacceptable.

      To be real, MS needs to take their stock private, just like Dell, and get off the stock market where they don't have to just look at each quarter and little else. This way, MS can expand into a lot more markets (which mean a lot more long term growth) than they can now. A few examples:

      1: MS can make money by licensing their IP... same thing that keeps IBM from collapsing. If MS licensed Active Directory and Exchange to Apple and UNIX makers, it would mean ongoing profits for them with zero work. Oracle, IBM, and RedHat would pay MS for licensing so their products could run MS technologies. This is a win for everyone in the picture, because it means core functionality that would be forced to be on Windows could be on other environments.

      2: MS could start working on new technologies to leverage their software advantage. For example, with a two phase deduplication process similar to PureStorage devices (where basic deduplication is done on writes, and a second pass is done in the background for even better space savings), coupled with better RAM management in Hyper-V, coupled with the ability for Hyper-V nodes to access each other's drives via Infiniband connections... they would have made the SAN obsolete while offering just as much, if not more redundancy.

      3: Re-engineer for security. Vista was a major step in this regard, but it has been ten years, and the Windows kernel needs to be re-engineered again. This time, it might be good to have Hyper-V be always on, so any machine, desktop or workstation is a VM, and the user can load an AV utility at the hypervisor level to catch rootkits, even RAM based ones. Of course, this makes backups easy since the whole machine's snapshot, RAM and all, can be done.

      As for a subscription for consumers, it is an option, but it has to be priced right. Too high, and users will stick to previous of Windows indefinitely.

      • #3 everything on a VM : that's very interesting but you need IOMMU support at the hardware, firmware and commercial levels.
        Nvidia (for graphics cards) makes the feature enterprise-only, Intel has byzantine rules of "this i5 or i7 but not this one", AMD enables it everywhere but motherboard vendors sparingly care about the feature.

      • You can already do true AD under Linux with vanilla Samba 4.x. And its been availible since 2011.

      • 1. They probably derive from value from the vendor lock-in than they expect from sharing. The rival OSes can already join an Active Directory domain (some require third-party tools, some don't). Right now, if you want to manage a fleet of Windows desktops you need a few Windows Server licenses for your domain controllers---and the requisite CALs. There are already open source AD clones anyway, which is probably why 2008, 2008 R2, and 2012 functional levels have such nice new features. They want to maximize

      • by batkiwi ( 137781 )

        An interesting thought as an alternative to your point #3 is to make your BASE OS native (so that you can play games/etc with native power), but any UNSIGNED applications run through App-V...

    • by bondsbw ( 888959 )

      I'm curious if they will offer bundles with Office 365 and Xbox Live Gold. Say at $299/year, you can put Windows on 5 computers, Office on 5 computers, and you get up to 5 Xbox Live Gold accounts.

    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @01:19PM (#49018745)

      I have my doubts about large customers also. Many stick with a single version of windows for years and years because they want a stable computing environment.

      Microsoft already tried the corporate subscription model with Win XP. Their marketing division talked a lot of their corporate customers into signing on to a 3 year contract instead of outright buying XP. The contract promised an upgrade to their next version of Windows, which was expected to happen 2-3 years after XP was released. Previous releases of Windows had been:

      Windows 3.0 - May 1990
      Windows 3.1 - March 1992
      Windows 95 - August 1995
      Windows 98 - June 1998
      Windows 2000 - Feb 2000
      Windows XP - Oct 2001

      So roughly 2-3 years between releases. Most companies knew full well Microsoft was pushing a subscription model, and were wary. But Microsoft priced it so that considering you were getting two releases of Windows, it was a good deal compared to buying the licenses outright. Most signed the 3 year contracts in 2002-2003.

      Vista wasn't released until Nov 2006 (volume licensing) and Jan 2007 (retail). More than 5 years after XP, and 1-2 years after most of those 3 year contracts expired. There were howls, mudslinging in corporate press, and lawsuits. I think Microsoft ended up extending those contracts by an extra year for free, which still left some customers out in the cold. And on top of that, Vista wasn't considered a very good upgrade so most companies ended up sticking with XP until Windows 7 was released in Oct 2009.

      The companies which signed up for Microsoft's subscription model 3-year support contract felt they'd been royally screwed. It will be a cold day in Hell before they ever sign up for a Windows 365. This is also the best argument against a subscription model - the constant revenue stream makes life easier for accounting, but it destroys the market incentive for the company to make improvements, add new features, and release them on a timely schedule.

      • Also-- and I've made this argument many times before-- the OS shouldn't be something that expires. The "subscription" that you're talking about, IIRC, was "Software Assurance" which includes support and free upgrades, but Windows XP wouldn't suddenly stop working if you chose not to renew your subscription.

        The rumor regarding this is that Microsoft has been planning a subscription version of Windows where, if you stop paying, your computer stops working. To my mind, that's unacceptable. Next thing you k

        • by arth1 ( 260657 )

          It's not always about choice either. Companies have computers running that someone set up a long time ago, and does a small but vital job for the business. Humans are human, and through attrition, bad times where all costs are cut to the bone, licenses aren't always renewed even though they should be.
          The question then is whether it's acceptable that something suddenly stops working. Not getting support and updates is one thing, but pulling the plug?

          Since this is /. here's the obligatory car analogy: W

    • by OzPeter ( 195038 )

      ...Consumers and hobbyists signing on to a perpetual Microsoft tax.

      Car analogy. If people don't like perpetual payments, why is car leasing such a big thing in the US?

    • One big advantage to the monthly subscription for Office is that it's a lot cheaper than purchasing the full version if you only need to use it occasionally. Situations where this is the case for Windows are probably less common, but some companies with varying numbers of Windows systems running at any one time could benefit from a subscription model.
    • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      Think about this. Many people might consider paying the M$ tax in order to avoid the real cost of upgrades. Having to retrain staff, having to install upgrades, having hardware drivers fail and needing hardware to be replaced, having to convert data to make it compatible with upgrades, all of those cost more than the unit price of the upgrade, far, far more. So a protection racket, pay the rent or else face upgrade nightmares ;D.

  • Leap years? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:12PM (#49018071)

    ... but what happens on a leap year? Will Windows be unusable on that day? I mean, more unusable than it already is.

  • by smoothnorman ( 1670542 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:14PM (#49018087)
    no windows for 2016 2020 2024 2028 2032 2036...
  • The OS is being released for free, or free to Win 8 users. I can't remember the stipulations. And I think Office is free for the first year, then some sort of subscription. Subscriptions are the way of the future, soon you'll download office then to unlock more options it's a subscription or a micro transaction.
    • Citation please? The places I've seen it as free could be interpreted as the purchase price is free, not the subscription. Or it could be free as in beer to all Win 7 and 8 users. I have yet to see anything definitive.
  • it could be a decent service for folks on Linux. My company has gone with Office 365, and while the actual Office apps are currently a bit weak, Outlook works pretty well. Since I prefer Linux, and run it on my development machine, I have to boot up my VPN to do Windows based tasks. Running their apps on the browser would be more convenient for me.

    However, my current take is that their cloud application suite (Word, PPT, Sharepoint) isn't nearly as functional as the Google Drive analogs.

    • Since I prefer Linux, and run it on my development machine, I have to boot up my VPN to do Windows based tasks. Running their apps on the browser would be more convenient for me.

      That's actually one of the big challenges Microsoft is facing. They have an internal conflict of interest between their OS division and apps division (mostly Office). From the viewpoint of the apps division, they are best off making Office available for all platforms. From the viewpoint of the OS division, they are best off maki

      • Yes. My kids do all of their school writing assignments on Google Drive (Docs); my daughter, now in college, did all of her work on the Google cloud during High School, and the kids love the real time collaboration features. My youngest, in 4th grade, uses a "private" Google service that their school set up. My point here is that I'm sure many people are using these Google services and Microsoft saw the writing on the wall. That is likely what helped the App group divorce themselves from the OS group i

  • Microsoft needs SaaS for their profit to keep going up. They switched businesses to essentially the same thing a long time ago with the site license.

    I really don't think it will be successful with consumers unless it's free. There are alternatives these days. I'll never forget Balmer laughing at the Chromebooks, now microsoft is so afraid of them they are trying to produce similar products that basically bring back the netbook (which is NOT what a chromebook is). The Microsoft ship can't turn this quickly,

  • I only use Windows for gaming and I already have a few games with monthly fees. If I need to pay a monthly/yearly fee to keep using that PC, I'll just ditch it and buy a Nintendo or Sony console instead without ever considering anything from Microsoft.

    • by solios ( 53048 )

      ...and then have to pay a monthly/yearly fee for PSN access?

      • by tepples ( 727027 )

        Use of a game console other than online multiplayer does not require a paid subscription. Single-player and offline multiplayer have no recurring fee.

        • Nintendo doesn't have any fees for games that support online multiplayer. ... not that they have a lot of those in the first place.

      • If it's required just to play online with other people, then that just leaves Nintendo as the only gaming company which isn't run by insane people.

  • by Impy the Impiuos Imp ( 442658 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:22PM (#49018165) Journal

    "Windows 8 suxxxxxxs, what to do?"

    "Windows 8.1 as a stopgap. And rush Windows 9 into production."

    "No, we need to give the perception of totally abandoning 8. Skip 9 and call it 10."

    "Might not be far enough. How about 360 like X-Box? Release in 2016."

    "Nah sounds like a toy. How about Windows 365 -- The everyday computer for the everyman?"

    "Everyperson."

    "Ok, do it."

    2016 rolls around. $2 billion in ads come out.

    "Microsoft proudly introduces Windows 365! The everyday computer for the everyperson!"

    "Oh my god."

    "What?"

    "2016 is a leap year."

  • by Junta ( 36770 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:24PM (#49018193)

    On all fronts, the competition has been hurting them by reduced/no OS licensing cost inflicted on the consumer and/or vendor. For Apple, it's to push hardware, for google to push ecosystem. In both their major competitor's cases, they are making inroads by using the OS as a giveaway as a means to a more profitable end.

    MS doubling down on charging for the OS would only help their competition. If they are serious about enabling their ecosystem, they need to restructure things so those goals fund the OS development, not require the OS development to pay for itself.

    MS also misunderstands another facet. They think a rolling release OS is critical to their success. They think they need the OS to be able to incorporate new function on a whim. They probably feel that way as they are impatient to have Windows 10 come along to fix what they did wrong in Windows 8. The problem is no one was demanding features out of Windows 7. The sin in windows 8 was inflicting undesired features, not being slow to deliver features. A rolling release will mean that MS customers pissed with some major design change are less able to latch on to some MS sanctioned safe haven (e.g. today it is windows 7) and look harder at jumping on OSX, IOS, Android, or a desktop linux depending on the area. Enthusiasts may bitch and moan about not having Lollipop 5 minutes after it releases, but 99% of the world would just as soon have their device work basically the same way day to day.

    • MS doubling down on charging for the OS would only help their competition. If they are serious about enabling their ecosystem, they need to restructure things so those goals fund the OS development, not require the OS development to pay for itself.

      That's why, IMO, Microsoft should go the Google route. They should make Windows free (maybe even Libre), and try to make their money from server software and services. Charge for Office 365, including MS Office, Storage for OneDrive, InTune, Exchange, etc. Create a consumer-focused version of InTune/Office 365-- sort of like iCloud. Continue charging for Windows Server, Exchange, and Sharepoint for business use. Use Windows for desktops/laptops/tablets/mobile as a loss-leader platform that enables them

  • by Marginal Coward ( 3557951 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:25PM (#49018205)

    Registering a trademark is cheap, especially for any outfit that's large enough to have their own lawyers already on staff. So, there isn't much percentage in trying to read anything big into the registering of a trademark. In this case, they would need no greater reason to trademark "Windows 365" than the fact that they already have some related trademarks.

    • Since they already have a trademark on “Windows,” I don’t understand what’s to gain from a separate one for “Windows 365,” which is already covered under the base TM. It’s not like a competitor can put out any "Windows [suffix]" operating system, regardless of what that suffix is. It’s sort of like Coca-Cola registering “Diet Coca-Cola."

  • Windows 365 is a follow-on to Office 365, it seems. Will Windows 10 be hosted on a cloud? Is the new subscription model to be based on local licensing, everything else key-dependent and run from and on the cloud? I'm not saying annual subscription, but that does open the door to, for example, the same or similar model to the Office 365 of $8/user/month.

    Is this the marker for the end of capable, standalone consumer devices, I wonder? If all this rings true, what does it mean for alternative platforms such as

    • by epyT-R ( 613989 )

      Considering how predatory everything is now, I would never want any of this.

    • by EvilSS ( 557649 )

      Windows 365 is a follow-on to Office 365, it seems. Will Windows 10 be hosted on a cloud?

      That's actually a pretty good guess. Microsoft hosted VDI would not be outside the realm of possibility.

  • Today you pay an OS and keep it for years, sometimes a decade. And it cost you 80-120 euro or dollar so it is a cost of maybe 10$ a year at most. can you imagine people suddenly asked a monthly or yearly subscription ? A lot of normal folk will suddenly be highly suspicious even if the price is lower.
  • Microsoft has tried at least three times during my career to sell rental contracts for Office. The rental approach has never worked on any of those occasions. If they can't get it to work for Office, it'll never work for Windows.

    On one of those occasions, I was deeply involved with an effort by a major international company to set up Office on rental licences, as part of their portfolio to offer to business customers. I helped set up and run a trial, we got some trial customers in, and tried to get Microso
  • by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @12:37PM (#49018355)

    that 365 is an odd number. Even numbered versions of Windows sucked.

  • Finally , with a subscription based Windows, the era of Linux Desktop arrives!!! again!!! and again!!!

  • So no Windows and no Office on February 29th? :)
  • At least we will be able to use it 1 day for free every 4 years.

  • Let's see how much longer we can totaly disapoint the customers. I know, let's taint CyanogenMod and make the Xbox,Windows, and Office abnoxious to use. Wait don't go, customers! We are introducing a subscription to the OS that instances partially run on our servers unencrypted and partially on your machine. Please insert credits to continue. It is not riddled with security holes, and we give your data to anyone that asks for it. Why are you leaving? There are 175,000 updates this week, but this is n
  • Didn't Microsoft register Windows as a trademark in 1995, just before they launched Windows 95? Has that trademark expired? If not, why would they need to trademark 'Windows 365', since no one else can use 'Windows' as the name of a commercial product w/o violating Microsoft's trademark.
  • by lymond01 ( 314120 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @01:38PM (#49018917)

    Two things:

    1) Many educational institutions already pay yearly for Microsoft products through their Microsoft Consolidated Campus Agreement. While the OSes are generally purchased along with new computers, the upgrades are rolled into the "Desktop Core" package -- so we go and buy a hundred computers with Windows 7 Home (or whatever the cheapest one is outside of Win7 Basic), then we can upgrade them to Windows 8.1 Enterprise for "free" (or Win 7 Enterprise)...and eventually Windows 10 assuming hardware specs out well enough. It isn't cheap -- somewhere around $35/person (there's a nice equation) and that gets upgrades to Windows, new Office, and a few other things. And installs can go anywhere once you've completed the equation -- you might have 200 people in your department, but 500 computers -- and you can install on all 500 computers.

    2) Windows comes wrapped up with the new PC usually, so where pricing hits you is with upgrades, or if you're building your own from components. A subscription model makes good business sense -- steadier revenue. But revenue hasn't really been a Microsoft problem since such a high percentage of computers are licensed with Windows.

    • How many people actually upgrade their copy of Windows that originally came with the machine?

      Of those, how many did a legit upgrade?

      For most people, the OS that comes with your device is the OS that will be on your device until it goes to the computer equivalent of the Elephant's Graveyard.

  • Microsoft Trademarks "Windows 365"

    As if anyone would have got away with branding something with that name prior to MS trademarking it...

    Or does this mean Windows 364 and Windows 366 (for leap years, of course) are still anybody's?

  • It's like they almost turned it around, but went too far and still in the same general direction.

  • It would be idiotic for Microsoft not to trademark Windows 365 whatever its plans.

    Microsoft reported a 128 percent year-over-year growth for Azure and its other commercial cloud services, including Office 365 for business. Home users of Office 365 (now numbering 7 million, Microsoft says) also edged up 25 percent over the last quarter.

    In some ways the Office 365 figures are more significant than the Azure numbers, since they hint that one of Microsoft's most intractable customer groups -- users of the desktop, on-premises Office suite -- can be transformed incrementally into cloud users, and from "transactional purchasing to annuity" (read subscription) customers. Microsoft has made wise moves in that area, such as offer more granular Office 365 subscription deals for small businesses. The basic Business SKU, which includes the full Office desktop apps, is now $8.25 per user per month for up to five devices per user.

    Microsoft reported solid Q1 gains with Azure and Office 365, but the payoff from its mobile efforts may still be a long way off [infoworld.com] [oct 24, 2014]

  • Given that MS are skipping over having a Windows 9 because of the negative reception of Windows 8, they're just anticipating that everyone will hate Windows 10 so much that they're going to skip over all the numbers from 11-364.

    • by rujasu ( 3450319 )

      Nah, I think it's clear that Microsoft is not counting in decimal like the rest of us. Sure, they start with 1, 2, 3 like you'd expect, but then after that it's 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10, 365. The next version will be something like 13.111.Xylophone. This is not Base 10. This is Base Bob.

      • by mrbcs ( 737902 )
        LOL Funniest comment here!!

        Kudos sir... that was frigging hilarious!

        Base Bob. ROFLMAO

  • That I could file a trademark for "Windows 356"? If appending a number on the end of windows is trademarkable, my Microsoft's own admission, then why not?
  • by jpellino ( 202698 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @03:59PM (#49020233)
    they're making no claims concerning 24/7
  • Is that the temperature the CPU will run at?

    (373.15 is the boiling point of water at normal atmospheric pressure)

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