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The Military United States Technology

Hacked Emails Reveal Russian Plans To Obtain Sensitive Western Tech 131

blando writes: A trove of emails provided to The Intercept detail Russian schemes to obtain a crucial component for military thermal-imaging systems. Though emails about the thermal imaging systems date back as far as 2006, the plans to acquire them began in earnest much more recently, in 2013. To try to hide Russian involvement, a company called Cyclone established a new company in the Republic of Cyprus. They did so with the help of a company called Rayfast, which was owned by three other companies itself. After obfuscating the new company's ownership and military ties, they reached out to several Western companies who worked with the technology.
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Hacked Emails Reveal Russian Plans To Obtain Sensitive Western Tech

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  • it gets worse (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29, 2015 @08:45AM (#49798311)
    hacked emails also reveal that sourceforge is full of malware. Put there by sourceforge. When will slashdot report that?
  • Just...wow. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29, 2015 @08:57AM (#49798391)

    FTA:"In April 2014, Viktor Tarasov wrote to the head of Ruselectronics, a Russian state-owned holding company, about a critical shortage of military equipment. The Russian military lacked thermal imaging systems — devices commonly used to detect people and vehicles — and Tarasov believed that technology might be needed soon because of the “increasingly complex situation in the southeast of Ukraine and the possible participation of Russian forces” to stabilize the region."

    Are they saying for the last 30 years they have had "zero" military thermal imaging capabilities? Couldn't they have just bought a few off e-bay? Something doesn't fit here...

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Basically you have to wonder how much of this is total horseshit.

      • by Yomers ( 863527 )
        Could be hundred percent bullshit - I had basic, 'made in Russia', night vision googles 10 to 15 years back in Moscow. Not a military grade, for sure. Also quick googling turned a company with classical name katod [katodnv.com] , based in Novosibirsk, here http://nsk.rbc.ru/nsk_topnews/... [nsk.rbc.ru] (on russian) they claim to produce consumer and military equipment, using only domestic and Chinese components.

        On the other hand, FA claims that Russia lacks ability to produce critical component called microbolometer arrays, this cl
    • Re:Just...wow. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29, 2015 @09:04AM (#49798449)
      Military grade thermal imaging of the sort on fighter jets or heat seeking missiles is not really the same as the consumer level junk you'd find on e-bay that people use to look for Sasquatch or find people in burning buildings.

      The only way to deal with these kinds of situations is to punish the Western companies suckered into the deal SEVERELY. Doing business with unknown, shady companies that involve regulated tech just to try to chase every dollar that someone hints they may throw your way ... well, the executives of the company should be jailed.
      • by PPH ( 736903 )

        Doing business with unknown, shady companies

        Otherwise known as a free market economy.

        Punish these companies how exactly? Refuse to give them any more US contracts? Then they just move offshore and serve the Chinese, Russian, Indian and other markets openly. And that's one less source our military has. If you can identify individuals within these companies that knowingly sold to restricted customers, perhaps you could throw them in prison. But in my experience with DoD contractors, you'll either get a sacrificial goat or they will wreck their own com

        • Re:Just...wow. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Rei ( 128717 ) on Friday May 29, 2015 @09:45AM (#49798823) Homepage

          No, fines for violating export laws.

          Being slapped with massive fines is usually pretty good motivation for a company. And given that the US spends nearly half of the world's total military spending, and the EU a good chunk of the rest, simply "hopping overseas" and choosing to serve other markets isn't exactly the smartest of plans, financially.

          It's idiodic for a company to wilfully risk sales of hundreds of thousands of units per year to NATO to sell a couple hundred units to Russia. Russia's economy is barely bigger than Canada's. And less than 80% the size of Brazil's.

          • Re:Just...wow. (Score:4, Informative)

            by PPH ( 736903 ) on Friday May 29, 2015 @10:16AM (#49799133)

            Being slapped with massive fines is usually pretty good motivation for a company.

            Some years ago, Boeing was slapped with $500 million in fines by the DoJ. Within a few weeks, the Pentagon cut Boeing a check for .... $500 million for "additional expenses".

            When you are the only source for some hardware, you don't pay fines. The taxpayer pays fines. And sometimes, you even make a profit on the transaction.

          • The problem with all these conjecture is that "When there is a will, there is a way". Russia or China, or ISIS or even American criminals can get their hands on this thermal imaging stuff. Just visit an ally and do some snooping and stealing from them.

        • Re: Just...wow. (Score:2, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          When it comes to military hardware and technology, there is no free market, and there never has been, you incredible dunce.

      • Military grade thermal imaging of the sort on fighter jets or heat seeking missiles is not really the same as the consumer level junk you'd find on e-bay that people use to look for Sasquatch or find people in burning buildings.

        How is it different apart from the usual mil spec things of being robust? The only experience I've got is with industrial thermal imagers. They're super sensitive (you could recover which keys had been pressedon a keyboard for example). One of the main things was it had some funky in

        • by Arkh89 ( 2870391 )

          For LWIR imagers (so called thermal camera, operating at wavelength around 10 microns), there are export controls (ITAR in the US) if you go over some resolution (around VGA, 640x480) and some framerate.

      • Military grade thermal imaging of the sort on fighter jets or heat seeking missiles is not really the same as the consumer level junk you'd find on e-bay that people use to look for Sasquatch or find people in burning buildings

        That's plainly not true. If you have around $5K, you can absolutely buy military grade thermal vision devices online, including eBay. Might not be the kind they put on fighter jets, exactly, but certainly the kind they issue to soldiers in the field.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Western intelligence has always overestimated foreign military capabilities and resources, particularly that of the Russian military. It's what justifies their huge budgets.

      • Western intelligence has always overestimated foreign military capabilities and resources, particularly that of the Russian military.

        One analyst presents a report that overestimates the foreign military capability, and one presents a report that underestimates it. A conflict occurs and one of the two is fired for not warning about technology that the adversary used that caused a lot of harm. Which of the two do you think got fired, and how do you think that will affect future reports by other analysts? The same problem exists in the Russian, Chinese, Indian, Israeli, ... intelligence systems - the system promotes overestimating in the

        • by Gryle ( 933382 )
          Interestingly, the Soviet Union routinely underestimated US military capabilities on the assumption that if the US had the capability, the US would have used it. The US hadn't used it, so obviously they didn't have it.

          Source: Operation Solo, John Barron.
          • Interestingly, the Soviet Union routinely underestimated US military capabilities on the assumption that if the US had the capability, the US would have used it. The US hadn't used it, so obviously they didn't have it.

            Source: Operation Solo, John Barron.

            I doubt that. I think the US often overestimates themselves. Pretty much every war we've fought since WW2 has been against 3rd world countries with a few key assets provided by China/Russia. A war against China or Russia proper I suspect would be an eye opener for a lot of people. Aircraft Carriers are really big targets and Stealth aircraft are only really stealthy to pre-1980s anti-air systems.

            • by Anonymous Coward

              If by "eye-opener" you mean "extremely damaging to the USA" then yes, it would be. If you mean "the USA would lose" then I suspect you'd be wrong. The rest of NATO combined does not match the power of the USA alone, it's true, but any war involving the USA (particularly against Russia and/or China) is guaranteed to drag in the rest of NATO and the militaries of France, the Netherlands and even now the UK (though ask again in five years about that one since we seem determined to fuck over the world's fifth m

    • by Rei ( 128717 )

      You could start by reading more than the first paragraph.

      1) They don't have "zero" capability, but they have way too little - only a few hundred modern imagers.

      2) They have tried to buy them off ebay before. And it led to arrests. It's illegal to export military-grade night vision equipment without a license, and apparently sites like ebay are well monitored for potential violations.

    • Israel, Europe have been active in licensing systems to Sukhoi, (http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker.html#mozTocId288713) let's hope nobody is trying for a conflict.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      High resolution and high rate thermal imaging sensors are export controlled because they're a military proliferation risk.

      Check out Flir's export regs page. http://www.flir.com/corporate/display/?id=67237

      If you look at the documentation from packaged thermal imaging systems or the datasheets for thermal sensor packages you'll see descriptions of how they meet certain export criteria in marketing materials. Updates/frames per second seems to be particularly crippled (Which you would need in high speed applic

    • FTA:"In April 2014, Viktor Tarasov wrote to the head of Ruselectronics, a Russian state-owned holding company, about a critical shortage of military equipment. The Russian military lacked thermal imaging systems — devices commonly used to detect people and vehicles — and Tarasov believed that technology might be needed soon because of the “increasingly complex situation in the southeast of Ukraine and the possible participation of Russian forces” to stabilize the region."

      Are they saying for the last 30 years they have had "zero" military thermal imaging capabilities? Couldn't they have just bought a few off e-bay? Something doesn't fit here...

      If you'd read TFA you'd see that they have been doing that as well.

    • Not zero, but yes, Russia is kinda lagging behind on these things. Not even just fancy stuff like thermal or NVD, but even just plain optics or red dot and holo sights (just for giggles, look up the battery life on red dot sights that are in service there, and compare to Aimpoint, or even the more expensive Chinese optics).

      • The Russians suck at microelectronics. They don't have the manufacturing facilities nor the expertise. This has hampered a lot of their military technologies like in the areas of AESA radar, command and control, night vision equipment, etc.

        The Chinese are a lot better at this than the Russians now. Some even claim they are getting better than Europe at it.

    • Most of the ones on eBay are Russian.

      I suspect what he was saying is that Western equipment is way better (our electronics were orders of magnitude better even back when they were a superpower).

    • by BoFo ( 518917 )
      What you say makes sense (or lack of sense) but it doesn't sound sinister enough for the western mainstream reportage on Russia.
  • It shows that anti-corruption measures are working. The Russians had to go to great lengths to disguise their identity. In the cold war days they would have just paid some American a few million dollars for the information, or promised some Brit a chance to be part of the glorious socialist revolution by handing it over. Now they have to work for it!
  • by Max_W ( 812974 ) on Friday May 29, 2015 @09:07AM (#49798481)
    Strange. I just made a search and found literally hundreds of high-ent thermal-imaging devices in Russian Internet shops: http://www.4glaza.ru/katalog/p... [4glaza.ru] http://tut.ru/PNV [tut.ru]
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Yeah, but what they don't tell you is that they drop-ship from Cyprus.

    • 2nd Generation devices. I believe current demand is for 4th and 5th generation.

  • I thought the Jack Ryan series was fictional!
  • by Anonymous Coward

    "(Pentagon spokesperson Eileen Lainez confirmed that the Department of Defense had provided thermal imaging devices and night-vision goggles to Ukraine in 2014, along with a variety of other military equipment)."

    http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/night-vision-goggles.html

    I have to say I'm very skeptical, even a quick search shows Night Vision goggles are easy to obtain and mostly made in China, but then again it does refer to 'advanced imaging' non-cooled types and this is military kit on the sights of ground

    • Night vision is not the same as thermal imaging. Consumer grade thermal imaging is not the same as military grade.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Firstly, its not really possible in the days of big data to obfuscate the ownership of the company, nor its customer base. Today, a single query to any half decent intelligence DB will give an instant response and these companies would be on watch lists. As for infra-red sensors, well, I also doubt the usefulness of such an operation. This is physics, not magic. There are limits to what sensors can do and all the properties of elements and materials are so well defined that computer modelling would show

  • What is the point? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Karmashock ( 2415832 ) on Friday May 29, 2015 @11:17AM (#49799673)

    Russia can't build any of that stuff even if they got the plans.

    Their tech is mostly bluster and bravado at this point.

    Take their new fighter jet... looks cool right? Well, that's about all it does with any competence. That is in fact its point. To look cool. As a weapons platform, it is a joke.

    And that goes for the majority of the Russian armory. It is either some cold war rusting piece of shit that hasn't been upgraded with new sensors or weapons. Or it is some Potemkin village farce.

    The Russians have their heads so far up their own asses that they're using mobile crematoriums to hide their own war dead from their own people in Ukraine.

    Talk to a Russian about Ukraine. They'll swear that this talk of Russian soldiers in Ukraine is just western propaganda.

    Never mind that literally everyone else contradict that from the Ukrainians to about a dozen NATO members to sat photos showing Russian tanks crossing the border... etc.

    So what are the Russians going to do if they steal our tech? They're not competent enough to build it regardless.

    Their economy is a joke... look at this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    So, they rank lower than Slovakia and Slovenia... below Greece.... you know, that country in the EU that everyone is laughing at for being incompetent.

    Seriously, what is Russia going to do?

    They talk a big game but Russia is the Black Knight of Asia:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • LOL. For someone using such an authoritative voice in a post, you offer zero evidence for any of your claims. If Russian weapons tech was a joke, Russia wouldn't have been worlds second biggest weapons exporter.

      Russian fighter jets are indeed very cool. If you're interesting in modern weapon delivery platforms, then look up the brand spanking new Su-34 on wikipedia. Russia is the second country to develop a fifth generation fighter jet, and the first country to build a fourth generation tank platform (Armat

      • I am aware of the russian jet... what is your argument for it being "fifth generation"? What does that mean to you? Because the evaluation from the Pentagon is that it is a hot mess.

        it doesn't manuver well, its sensor package is shit, it isn't especially stealthy... so if it engages comparable US or NATO planes it will die before even seeing its enemy.

        As to their new tank... remind me again why it is a "4th generation" tank?

        Again, you use these terms but I don't think you know what they mean. This whole con

        • by Anonymous Coward

          At least they make their own planes.

          Few countries do.
          USA, China, Russia, France.
          That's pretty much it.

          Would you like to have NO competition and thus out of work as an engineer because what you have is "good enough"?

          Be happy they're bothering to strive. The USA doesn't do shit if no one is challenging them. It just sits on it's ass, fires all the engineers, and forgets about all the glory and expansion it was going to work on.

          • ... I don't understand what you're saying.

            First, so what if they make their own planes? I didn't say they didn't. They're just not very good.

            Second, would I rather have no competition for military power? Yes... obviously. Competition for military power is not in my interest. The less competition for miltiary power there is the less likely war becomes. The more competition for military power there is the more likely war becomes and you get arms races and other stupid shit. So yes... I do not want competition

        • Armata T-14 is a fourth generation tank platform because it has a fully automated turret, with tank crew in a specially protected capsule. All weapons fully automated. This project is a stepping stone on the way to producing a fully automated, crew-less tank. So yes, it's the first fourth generation tank.

          What important about Russian fifth generation fighter jet PAK FA and the Armata tank platform, as well as the Kurganets IFV platform is that the Russian military industrial complex not only can improve upo

          • Having an automated turret does not mean that your tank will outclass the previous generation. I grant that it is a good thing to have.

            The only thing I'm seeing with the T-14 is that it is claiming an effective range of something like 5 kilometers with its main gun. Where as the Abrams claims about 2.5.

            That is a big difference but it is not confirmed.

            What is more, under what scenario would a US Abrams go up against a Russian T-14 Armata? This notion of some sort of solo duel one tank versus another is unrea

            • The "future" war you speak about will never happen. But there have been many conflicts in post-soviet space, where tanks and armor have proven to be both useful. It always cracks me up when there is a discussion about a new tank, there are "internet experts" who proclaim that tanks are obsolete. Well, who is going to pick the fight with the USA? Probably no one, but in all other conflicts, the tanks can be damn useful, and that's why Russia and even Ukraine sold heaps of them. In fact, even conventional tan

              • As to Russians tanks versus poor eastern European nations with no back up.

                Sure... you can use sledge hammers to kill babies.

                But then the old Russian tanks would have been just as good for that. Saddam's tanks that we killed by the hundred in Gulf War 1 would be fine for that.

                There are a few things the US could do that would stop this bullshit cold.

                1. We could establish a Korean style DMZ between Russia and eastern Europe. Anti tank mines etc. Then we could give the locals a mixture of SAM batteries and man

                • Please. It's quite disingenuous to say that NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance, just like it is disingenuous to say that NATO's missile defense system in Poland or elsewhere in Europe is meant to protect NATO allies from Iranian missiles. To say "you're not our enemy, but we surround you with our bases just in case if 200 years later things change" is as aggressive and expansionist as it gets. By expanding into and militarizing East Europe NATO is doing the same thing that USSR did after WWII. NATO indeed

                • Listening to some Western pundits and analysts about their ideas about what NATO could do to help Ukrainians fight Russian aggression is hilarious. First of all, I don't think it will help to train Ukrainian Army or give them more weapons. Russia will then up its game, give more weapons to the rebels, send more instructors, send regular troops in, if necessary. Putin has already proved in 2008 and 2014 that he will go all the way, as far as necessary to protect Russian interests.

                  But the most damning reason

            • The only thing I'm seeing with the T-14 is that it is claiming an effective range of something like 5 kilometers with its main gun. Where as the Abrams claims about 2.5.

              That's nothing special. The Russians have supported missile launching from the gun tube for quite some time (that's how they get that range). Heck the T-80 and T-64 could do it. e.g. the Refleks [wikipedia.org] missile. The US used to have something similar with the Sheridan tank which could fire the Shillelagh [wikipedia.org] missile. If the US needed something like that

              • Oh and when you claim the Russians are fighting WW2 with their emphasis on tanks a lot of people say the same about the US Navy and their emphasis on aircraft carriers in a world of satellites and prompt launch ICBMs. But to each his own.

              • Oh they're missiles?... lolz. Okay. That's different. I was thinking that was the range of their main gun.

                If they want to play the missile game... the US would just throw cruise missiles at them which means you're looking at a range of about 250+ miles.

                As to tanks being obsolete, depends on what you're doing.

                And I should point out, that those engagements in the middle east showed more a need for APCs rather than tanks. The issue was not the need for a heavy long range gun but rather for an armored car that

                • And I should point out, that those engagements in the middle east showed more a need for APCs rather than tanks. The issue was not the need for a heavy long range gun but rather for an armored car that wouldn't get shredded by smalls arms and IEDs.

                  No man. If they need a "heavy long range gun" they would get a howitzer not a tank. Tank guns are typically used for mid distance direct fire against other vehicles or fortifications. Tanks are typically used for several missions but the most important ones are an

                  • I'll give you an example. During the First Chechen War the Russians sent their infantry and APCs (e.g. BDR armored wheeled vehicles not unlike the Striker) into Grozny. The results were quite horrible. In the Second Chechen War they used WW2 style tactics (hah!) and sent the heavy tanks in front of the infantry (e.g. T-80s and T-72s). This mostly worked except ERA doesn't play well with infantry. So in their next tanks you see some effort to replace ERA with NERA and things like that.

                    The US had similar expe

                  • Also you can bomb a city to bits but you can't still clean it out of insurgents just like that. The Germans tried that in Stalingrad but the partisans just hide in the sewers and fought amidst the rubble.

                  • ... alright, but you don't need tanks to do that.

                    Our close support air power can do everything but the APC part.

                    You want to destroy a fortification? Drop a guided bomb on it.

                    You want to destroy a tank column? Drop a bomb on it.

                    You might argue that it is cheaper to fire a tank shell at something then it is to drop a guided bomb on it.

                    But there are a lot of things to consider.

                    1. The tank shells miss a lot. Which means you have to fire more than one. They also aren't that big and for some targets you have to f

    • by nnull ( 1148259 )
      You realize a lot of technology that's out there to build a lot of this military equipment is available to literally anyone? CNC machines are plentiful and Russians do have the knowledge to build high quality military equipment if they need too. Russia's booming industry right now is software and military weapons, so that's what they're focusing on and doing pretty damn well at it. Just looking at the advancement of Sukhoi, it is pretty impressive seeing that company come out of near bankruptcy to what it i
      • If all it took to build a credible high tech military weapons platform was some CnC machines then enthusasts in Kansas would be turning out F22 fighter planes for the lolz.

        So no. The top level military hardware requires a level of expertise the Russians don't have.

        The US has it.
        The Chinese have it.
        The British have it.
        The French have it... sorta.
        The Germans have it.
        The Israelis have it.
        The Japanese have it.

        I don't think anyone else really has it.

        As to Russia's booming economy in software and electronics... r

        • What about software design, will I outsource development of my company database or something to a Russian firm? No

          Oracle does a lot of development in Russia. So perhaps you're using Russian developed software and don't even know about it.

          • Its possible but I've been in a lot of meetings where such things were discussed and the Russian option was not considered credible. Even the indian idea was dubious.

            It comes down to trust. If you're moving hundreds of millions of dollars around... do you really want to let the Somalians into your database? Seems foolish to me.

        • Russian semiconductor hardware sucks donkey balls though.

  • Water is Wet :)
  • You mean, there exists a state-sponsored industrial espionage program, often involving shell firms registered in Mediterranean or Caribbean islands better known as summer tourist destinations? Scary shit!

    I would never occur that a country like Russia, or perhaps China or India would ever try to do something like this.

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