Proposed Regulation Could Keep 3D-printed Gun Blueprints Offline For Good 423
SonicSpike sends a report on a proposed update to the International Traffic in Arms (ITAR) regulations which could shut down the sharing of files for 3D printed gun parts over the internet. "Hidden within the proposal, which restricts what gear, technology, and info can and cannot be exported out of the U.S., is a ban on posting schematics for 3D printed gun parts online." This follows a lawsuit from Cody Wilson and Defense Distributed back in May fighting the federal government's command to remove blueprints for the "Liberator" 3D-printed gun from their website. A senior official at the U.S. State Department said, "By putting up a digital file, that constitutes an export of the data. If it's an executable digital file, any foreign interests can get a hold of it."
Because...it's the LAW! (Score:5, Insightful)
All Constitutional issues aside (Free Speech, Prior Restraint, etc.) They can't keep details of their spying program out of the news. They expect to prevent people from exchanging these documents?
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But really i don't get the big deal anyway. It is not like its that hard to make a gun with a half decent set of tools anyway. But why bother when you get just go to the store to get one. Or if its commit a crime, pay slightly more for a "reported stolen" gun.
Re:Because...it's the LAW! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Because...it's the LAW! (Score:5, Insightful)
They know who they're working for: the One Percenters.
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Do you have any idea how much better shape we would be in if this was actually true? The 1%ers are the middle management who work for the people that this government actually works for. More like the 1%ers of the 1%ers.
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Bloomberg, Clintons, etc
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Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Kerry...
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That's exactly the problem we're facing. More and more people consider it "their" government. Not "ours". Not something that represents them.
And that's dangerous.
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Yessiree, if you want safe streets, move to a strict gun control city like Chicago.
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Or you could try Singapore, or Tokyo, or Hong Kong, or Sydney, or Berlin or Taipei. The difference is, of course, that those cities actually have and exercise the political will to ENFORCE their gun laws (Well... their parent governments do, aside from the one that doesn't *have* a parent government.) and proactively imprison offenders instead of turning a blind eye until someone gets killed.
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"extremely" high is an exaggeration. Quite a lot of us who are liberal are also against gun control, I can't say I've met more than a handful of true gun control advocates in my travels. There are a number of people who want strong gun control, but I'm not sure how large this group of people is. I usually equate them to Mother's Against Drunk Driving, who continue to try to essentially ban alcohol sales or consumption any time the issue is raised, and are very effective at keeping old anti-alcohol laws on t
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One thing you'll notice is that in most instances where there's been a mass shooting, the proposed remedy for gun control would not have prevented the mass shooting from happening in the first place.
That's a subjective statement. The Columbine shooters took half their weapons from the legally-owned stash of one of their fathers, and the other half were bought on the black market, and the argument is that they would have just bought more if they hadn't had access to Dad's guns. This may be true. Some claim that te presence of guns at home somehow "normalised" the idea of having guns, and that they wouldn't have gone and bought them. This may be true, but seems to be a pretty thin argument. The real crux
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What bothers me about mental health checks is what they'll classify as acceptable. I see enough people who think that an existing mental health condition should be excluded from something or other (which leads to a LOT of untreated mental health problems).
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How is 3D printing enabling anyone?
If you wanted to make your own gun. Any Joe Smo with a garage workshop could make one, even without a 3D Printer. A bench drill, with a metal drilling bit, and some metal cutting and welding tools. is enough for someone to make their own gun. And just like a 3D printed model. It may not be the safest or relabel gun. But it can get the job done.
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*Takes out Items To Ban List*
So what you're saying is we also need to ban bench drills, metal drilling bits, and metal cutting and welding tools as well.
(The sad part is that I'm joking but all too many people would say this completely seriously.)
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Didn't Phil Zimmerman already resolve an issue exactly like this? The US government said PGP was a munition and was banned from export, so he argued that he could print the source code in a book and mail it overseas, and since it was in book form it was explicitly spelled out in the constitution as protected speech.
Snippet:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;
While the constitution do
Re:Because...it's the LAW! (Score:5, Insightful)
Or in America. In rather liberal states like Vermont we can get guns at the local Walmart.
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Um, AT&T, Verizon, Google, Time Warner, (Comcast charges for providing access, but really can't say they DO it.), etc.
I can't say that I know of any Federal provided public access to the Internet, and they certainly don't own or operate any of the major backbones any more.
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Yes, those companies own the internet. The government enforces their monopolies and filters your content. That is my point. They can and will control what you see and hear and say when they deem necessary. And every little thing goes through their wire, with a big ol' hard drive attached, harvesting every byte. And please save your breath on the VPN/Tor thing. They are 'placebos' at best.
Re:Because...it's the LAW! (Score:5, Insightful)
I got it ! (Score:2)
How do you define a "gun part"? (Score:4, Interesting)
Would the trigger on plans for a garden sprayer be illegal?
It stopped piracy (Score:5, Funny)
Making it illegal to transmit data put an immediate end to software piracy. I don't see why it can't work here as well.
Re:It stopped piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Making it illegal to transmit data put an immediate end to software piracy. I don't see why it can't work here as well.
Hey, while we are at it, let's outlaw murder and rape too... Oh wait... What is already illegal?
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They will probably have limits on the "commercial" 3D printers that consumers purchase. So it will be a hindrance for the Average Joe but not for the geek or committed bad guy.
If you ever noticed, you can't scan in the images of money into Adobe PhotoShop either. Well, that is -- an ENTIRE bill cannot be scanned. You can however, scan it in two parts, and then assemble them in PhotoShop.
So it may be that nobody in the future will be able to print a gun (with off the rack 3D printers) but they'll print out a
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TL;DR: If you outlaw printing guns, only outlaws print guns.
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"I like Pez so much that I'm building a dispenser that ejects it at the speed of sound."
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Well there is precedent the MPAA compared the VCR to the Boston Strangler in the early 80s.
"I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone." --- Jake Valenti (President of the MPAA)
If they thought a device that would allow you to recorded live tv was equivalent to a serial murderer then there thought of piracy must be at least equally hyperbolic.
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Making it illegal to transmit data put an immediate end to software piracy. I don't see why it can't work here as well.
It'll work - just like the ban on exporting strong encryption worked.
Quick! (Score:4, Insightful)
Somebody put the genie back in the bottle!!!
Crappy precedent... (Score:4, Interesting)
If we start banning content because it could be a violation of INTERNATIONAL export...cue the Great US Firewall.
Re:Crappy precedent... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Crappy precedent... (Score:5, Informative)
You must be new here.
Ever heard of PGP? The versions that used the large encryption keys (>1024 bits at the time, iirc, or maybe even smaller keys), used to be banned for export under certain US military laws. The rest of the world had to do with a weaker version of PGP. Not that the full version wasn't available to us anyway...
Of course it will (Score:5, Insightful)
Proposed Regulation Could Keep 3D-printed Gun Blueprints Offline For Good
Yep. And drug laws totally eliminated illegal drugs, prostitution laws totally eliminated prostitution, etc.
Come on, people. This is the stupidest headline I've read in awhile. If laws actually had magical powers like that it would be irrelevant since there's already a law against using a gun to murder someone.
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Situation 1, i go to a bar, find a girl that wants nice things for a night and puts out for it.
Situation 2, Some girl wants extra cash and finds a porn movie studio, gets paid for sex.
Situation 3, someone you don't find too objectionable offers X dollars for a shag, and you aggree.
Why would anyone think that 3 is soo different from the rest? What is gained by making it illegal.
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At least wit
F14 is largely declassified (Score:5, Insightful)
The goal, of course, is not to prevent this stuff from getting out -- people will sneak it out trivially and host it outside the US. And state-level agency, or large terrorist organizations, could just send legal (on the surface anyway) visitors to pick it up, if they wanted to, which they don't.
The goal is to intimidate the makers of such designs. Arrest first and ask questions later, when such designs get out. I wonder how they will take that intimidation?
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Arrest first and ask questions later, when such designs get out. I wonder how they will take that intimidation?
Doesn't matter. Only thing matters is how deep your pockets are retaining competent legal counsel. Usually your pockets run out before the government's, unfortunately.
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F14 is largely declassified
The security classification of an item really isn't relevant. Although it would be an ITAR violation to export classified data, there are countless non-classified items on the ITAR list.
The goal, of course, is not to prevent this stuff from getting out -- people will sneak it out trivially and host it outside the US.
Sneaking ITAR-controlled data out and hosting it outside the US constitutes an "export". If the perpetrator is caught, they are subject to extremely onerous fines and federal imprisonment.
And state-level agency, or large terrorist organizations, could just send legal (on the surface anyway) visitors to pick it up, if they wanted to, which they don't.
ITAR doesn't work that way. Allowing foreign visitors, regardless of their legal status, to "pick up" ITAR-controlled data is an "export".
USA only? (Score:2)
ITAR would apply mainly to USA, question is whether through ACTA-like actions they would impose it on the World?
Pointless, since we already have a work-around (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Pointless, since we already have a work-around (Score:5, Insightful)
Voters are the ones that don't learn - they keep putting these idiot politicians into office.
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The internet doesn't work like that (Score:2)
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You realize that the Wise and Venerable Legislators are OK with drone strikes against foreign countries right?
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They're working on the details for that one, the legislator seems OK with it, but as long as the drones aren't pointed at them.
Foreign interests? (Score:5, Insightful)
By putting up a digital file, that constitutes an export of the data. If it's an executable digital file, any foreign interests can get a hold of it."
Right. Because in countries where you can trade a goat for a fully automatic AK-47 or even an RPK, people are instead going to download and print a flimsy, crappy piece of plastic that can shoot maybe 10 rounds before blowing your hand off. And in any case, they make much better weapons in caves [wikipedia.org] than what this guy is making.
Re:Foreign interests? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Foreign interests? (Score:4, Insightful)
And you miss the bigger picture. Making it illegal for an honest citizen to print a 3D gun will not stop the criminals from doing it.
That is the biggest problem with gun control -- criminals do not obey laws.
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Of course criminals obey laws, what a stupid comment. You go around not obeying any laws and you see how long you last. The point of criminality is to benefit the criminal - he does this by breaking laws selectively, not by constantly flagging himself to every passing police officer. If you have to break laws just to prepare for a crime, it makes the crime harder to commit. Don't condescend about the "bigger picture" when you're missing fundamental basics like these, or live in a dream world where all c
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The difference is that being made of plastic they won't trigger metal detectors.
The "foreign interests" most likely to use this (ie. people without the industrial capacity to develop their own covert weaponry) are more likely to just blow up said metal detector, along with anyone in or near the security checkpoint.
Yay, 'murica! (Score:4, Interesting)
This will be extremely effective, because no other nation in the world could possibly come up with a 3D-printer blueprint for producing gun parts. :P
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It's not about any other country. The goal of the regulation is to prevent Americans from having access to 3D printed guns and to intimidate any American who would design one of these guns.
The best answer is for people outside the US to create these designs and post them online.
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So, lets get this straight... You are for people out in the country being able to print parts for their guns because getting parts might be hard? Um, so if they cannot mail order gun parts, where on earth are they going to get a 3D printer and supplies to run it?
The rest of your post is 100% not original thinking but pabulum rhetoric from the Anti-Gun crowd. Of course gun laws don't stop bad guys from using guns in bad ways, new laws will have the same problem, only the law abiding will follow them, bad
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Yes, of course, you've figured it all out. Because an asshole who decides exactly when he can spring an ambush on unsuspecting people, hiding behind cover & wearing body armor, can instantly be taken out by an average handgun holder. Seriously?
You are aware that highly trained and experienced soldiers almost always fail and die under those circumstances right? The shooter has more firepower, bette
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It wont make a difference.
I dont need a 3d printer to make a gun!
I drill press and some angle iron to make a jig and I can produce produce AK47's all day long.
Best part is, guns made at home dont have to be registered and the parts that you order to make them dont have a background check. Meaning As long as I make the receiver for my own personal use (that's the part with the serial number and the part that legally constitutes a gun) then I don't have to serial number it, it does not have to be registered,
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So, short of hiring a psychic to predict future crime, what else do you suggest as far as a background check? Do you have a criminal record? Have you been declared mentally incompetent?
Anything beyond that is a judgement call, and who gets to make that call? On what basis?
Keep in mind that every year, less than one out of every 30,000 gun is used in a murder.
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wholesale gun violence in the united states as a manifestation of the permanent race based caste and class system inequality in the united states..
Once Obama finally becomes President, that will be solved and the racial healing can begin.
Because it worked so well for PGP... (Score:5, Insightful)
PGP: Source Code and Internals - Phil Zimmerman [amazon.co.uk] - books have 1A protection. So I have no doubt we'll soon see "The Liberator: Source Plans and Internals - Cody Wilson".
Also, WTF does "If it's an executable digital file, any foreign interests can get a hold of it" mean? Is ISIS unable to use non-executable files?
Funniest story heard all day (Score:2)
Yeah, because a piece of paper pinched out by the government is going to stop people from sharing information.
3D-printed gun blueprints are on the Pirate Bay (for example [thepiratebay.mn]). They're hosted on overseas websites. When the first story about the government forcing the author to take down the DefDist package came out, I made copies and posted them to six different domains I own (for example [eprci.net]). If this regulation passes, I, and I'm sure plenty of other people, will step up their efforts to spread such files wider a
Oh, OK great!! (Score:3, Funny)
That should take care of it once and for all then. Glad that's resolved. (insert obligatory face-palm here)
Up Next ... (Score:2)
Followed soon by making it illegal to describe in print how to make a weapon
Followed then by making it illegal to mention when a weapon is used, even in self defense - "it just promotes 'bad think'".
Followed by making it illegal to use a weapon in self defense, because - oh wait, hello United Kingdom.
Followed by making it illegal to use the word "we
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Encoded with an OTP (Score:3)
So two people, independently, publish files of random numbers.
It just so happens that when the two files are XORed together you get the plans for a gun (or any other "restricted" file)
Who are you going to prosecute? After all, anybody can publish files of random numbers. Only one of the two needs to be "constructed" and it's impossible to determine which one is the "artificial" one.
encryption software (Score:2)
Export restrictions, really? (Score:2)
I think it shows just how unreasonable the anti-gunners can be that they would use weapons export regulations against the sharing of 3d printed gun designs.
If I were in the Pentagon or Homeland Security (theatre) I would ENCOURAGE the export of 3d printed gun designs. Let the enemy blow their own hands and faces off with their plastic guns! Hell, let domestic criminals do the same!
Meanwhile law abiding gun users can just buy them or make them on lathes. Personally I may just try to 3d print a gun some day
Foxxed (Score:3)
This has nothing to do specifically with guns, 3D or otherwise.
This appears to be a change to ITAR to define making files available for download as part of the law. This has long been a work-around that multiple people in my company at least have pointed out was stupid during ITAR training: If I install software on my laptop I have to go through ITAR with it, but if I leave it on a server at work and access it remotely from Europe, not ITAR. There are still laws, mind you, but they are different laws. Fixing this, while annoying to some, at least makes the law make a bit more sense.
So where do guns come into this? As near as I can tell, only because this story is on Fox news, and they can't get their 80-to-dead audience excited about "Obummer" by griping about internet files.
Political clickbait.
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Torrent Style Protocol where the parts are never fully assembled until delivered. How can you ban PART of a diagram?
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Judges aren't all dicks (Score:2)
So, being a clever grammar Nazi can pay off, in the realm of law.
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To distribute the blame so they can all point to each other.
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When do we get the indelible internet?
The 1st amendment is only bullet proof with the 2nd amendment... Well that and the rest of the bill of rights....
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I'm not looking for a weapon. I'm looking for a shield to neutralize it.
Re:compensating? (Score:5, Informative)
This has nothing to do with guns or dicks. It's about control, the control of information that everyone already has. It's useless regulation that will end up costing billions of dollars.
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Well, the people receiving those billions of dollars won't find the regulations so useless then, will they?
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At least we have dicks, Eunuch.
Eunuch - You keep using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means...
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Eunuch has a dick, just no balls
Kind of like Hillary.
Look it up (Score:2)
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Simple, name one Totalitarian regime that allows for its citizens to be armed.
The Soviet Union. Gun ownership was common there, and is common in Russia today.
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/citation needed/
Gun Ownership was highly controlled in the USSR. They had massive gun confiscations.
Try again.
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Hitler is recent enough that there are people alive that remember him. But yeah, you want more recent example, why are we negotiating with Iran? And would you agree that getting a signed piece of paper from them is as meaningless as the piece of paper Chamberlain got from Hitler?
The fact is, no totalitarian regime ever had a second amendment style freedom. And the fact is, you can't name even one, so you pick a less substantial point out to make it seem more reasonable to be on your side of the argument. It
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And would you agree that getting a signed piece of paper from them is as meaningless as the piece of paper Chamberlain got from Hitler?
Well, at least you can attack them with a reason when they don't honor the said "meaningless piece of paper" (think of it as a warrant when police invade your house)???
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Actually, most people, including myself, are just honest. While I could get pirated movies, I would rather be able to live with myself and I follow the law willingly. Note that I do use VLC so I don't have to watch the FBI warnings and previews (probably breaking the law somehow).
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Controlling the information of ideas
Orwell just had his year wrong....
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Doesn't work with non metal parts...
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