Windows 10 Upgrade Reportedly Starting Automatically On Windows 7 PCs (softpedia.com) 370
An anonymous reader writes: Many users have confirmed in the comment section of a popular reddit post that "Windows 7 computers are being reported as automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade without permission." It's no secret that Microsoft wants users to upgrade to their new OS. Earlier in the year, Windows 10 was set as a 'recommended update' so when you install new security or bug patches, the new OS is selected by default as well. Terry Myerson, head of the OS group at Microsoft, warned users about the possibility of the OS automatically installing. "Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device. Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue," he said. Whether or not the recent outcry is caused from users forgetting to deselect the Windows 10 upgrade in the update list or Microsoft updating Windows 7 PCs without users' permission, the good news is that you have 30 days to downgrade to the previous version of the OS.
Will Someone Please! (Score:5, Insightful)
Will someone please sue these fuckers!
Please?
Wondering the same thing. (Score:2)
How is this even remotely legal?
Re:Wondering the same thing. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wondering the same thing. (Score:5, Insightful)
Being in the EULA doesn't make it automatically legal. You can write stuff like "By pressing AGREE you AGREE to give us a million dollars, your wife, and all your future earnings" , but no court will see it as a binding agreement. The only legal stuff in the EULA is things like copying and reselling softare, trademarks, things like that. Most of those are already made law so the EULA is more like a reminder that these laws exist, not that the EULA magically allows any laws that the company wants to make true for their own benefit.
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it works out to little under 2 billion dollars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
or total invalidation of toilet paper you call EULA
https://www.techdirt.com/artic... [techdirt.com]
Re:Wondering the same thing. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's in the EULA
Citation needed.
Please show us the EULA from Win7 that gives M$ permission to shove Win10 down our throats.
After all, we did pay for Win7, so we have the right to use it as long as we want to.
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Re:Will Someone Please! (Score:4, Insightful)
Hear, hear! As a European, I have been saying for months, where the hell are the European Commission in regard to this!? They should have been all-over it months ago!
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They take a few years to react to things like that unless they fall victim to it themselves.
Re:Will Someone Please! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Will Someone Please! (Score:4, Informative)
Note that Windows 10 sill force upgrades for Home, Pro, Enterprise, and Educational editions. Yes, that's ALL editions. W10 Pro allows you to "defer" upgrades for a few months, but security updates can't be deferred. Enterprise and Education editions can stop all updates except for security updates which are required to be upgraded, but at a certain point there will be the next major upgrade (ie, Windows 11 except that they'll still call it Windows 10) and you won't be able to get that version without allowing all upgrades through. I think that Enterprise edition is not even available as an individual purchase so a home or small business can't even get it.
Notice that security updates will *always* be applied and you can't disable them on any edition. Sounds good perhaps. But also notice that just a few days ago Microsoft added a fucking advertisement to a "security" update. This means that Microsoft is perfectly willing erase the line between high priority security updates and and lowest possible priority general purpose updates. The only assurance we have that Microsoft will act responsibly in this matter is their word, and their word is useless as they have lied over and over again without even the decency to look slightly ashamed about it.
Now yes, there are ways to disable updates on Windows 10; but it's pretty harsh as it blocks all updates (basically disable the update service). There's also a tool from Microsoft that can be used to hide an update, but you have to use it after the fact to undo an update instead of proactively stopping them.
This update policy makes Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome look absolutely sane in comparison.
Re:Will Someone Please! (Score:5, Interesting)
"Will someone please sue these fuckers!"
In the UK there is something called the Small Claims Court which is designed for, well, small claims. It costs very little to get into and involves magistrates (IIRC). The fees are here https://www.gov.uk/make-court-... [www.gov.uk]. Lawyers are generally frowned upon as I recall because it is a form of arbitration between reasonable people.
It might not sound very exciting but you claim for your costs for reinstating your system after it was broken. So if you do it yourself, you might price your time at say £20 per hour (reasonable) or you might hire outside help at say £30ph. It will take say five hours to find and copy all your data off to a USB disc that you had to buy at say £80 plus the two hours trip to town. Then you have to restore your system from source - let's say you still have a Windows restore partition - that will take a good two hours. Then you have to patch it - another five hours. Reinstall your apps - another five hours.
So 5*20 + 80 + 2*20 + 2*20 + 5*20 + 5*20 = 17*20 + 80 = £420 minimum
That's for someone who knows what they are doing and are being reasonable. For an IT duffer then the £30+ph is more likely because they will need professional help (receipts please).
The whole point of this is that MS (if they really are pushing forced installs) will end up with some form of court judgment against them and you will get recompense. The SCC is not a get rich quick scheme. It is designed as an easy to use and cheap way of reclaiming monies. It has worked very well for me and some friends in the past. In one case the threat of SCC was enough to make a very, very large multi-national do the right thing because of the fact that the SCC is a serious court and a judgement against you can look a bit shit (especially when publicised.)
Now, if after restoring your system it does yet another win 10 breakage then you can always do it all again. If a few 1000 people do this it could be interesting.
I am making a big assumption here which is that you will probably have to persuade the magistrates that your system was broken by MS's automatic "update". You would have to make a formal claim to MS first requesting payment for your time. You would also have to demonstrate that they refused to comply.
Worth a crack though
Cheers
Jon
Small Claims: A good idea that doesn't always work (Score:3)
A real problem with the Small Claims procedures here in England is that the time you can spend trying to figure out what you have to do and then going through the formal process can easily be worth more than what you would get back if you won a reasonable level of compensation for the original issue. Realistically, you might have to figure the whole thing out without the aid of a lawyer, because unlike most courts you typically can't claim costs for legal assistance even if you win. It seems that you also s
Re:Will Someone Please! (Score:4, Interesting)
If enough of us ask nicely, or not so nicely, the FTC might sue them.
Send your complaints about Microsoft's unfair and unethical behavior to: antitrust@ftc.gov
This is the official address for reporting antitrust violations. I think trying to leverage the near universal presence of old versions of Windows on PCs worldwide to force acceptance of the new version qualifies as abuse of market position. The FTC might agree with enough public comment/complaint. People who have experienced the "involuntary upgrade" problem are likely to be especially influential. If you know anyone who has experienced this, pass that address along to them.
What a PITA (Score:2)
Is that a rollback to Windows 7, or install (7) on top of install (10) on top of install (7)? That's still a lot of coffee. Making sure all your apps and settings are preserved, and hunting down the proper settings to prevent it from happening again... for now.
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Rollback to the previous version unless something very strange is going on.
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Residual "phone home" stuff from Windows 10.
Bet on it.
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Because icon placement is real important and stuff.
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Witnessed it personally (Score:5, Interesting)
Showed up for work last Monday and saw one box had switched over even after telling the nag screens NO. I had to do the uninstall because we have software that does not work properly under 10. I can't recommend GWX Control Panel enough. It removes all signs of 10 and even the 4Gb of files it downloads without telling you.
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Thank you for the GWX Control Panel tip! Never heard of that program and it's fantastic. I've decided to stay with Windows 7 for a long time as I still love 7, everything works perfectly on my install, and I have absolutely no reason to upgrade to 10
Re:What Is Your Environment? (Score:5, Informative)
Your guess was correct. Windows 7 Pro not on a domain. Looks like the update was changed to critical and that's why it was automatic.
Re:What Is Your Environment? (Score:4, Insightful)
Changes like this means that we no longer will trust Microsoft and disabling Windows Update may be the only reliable option.
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Changes like this means that we no longer will trust Microsoft and disabling Windows Update may be the only reliable option.
Now that's a change I can get behind.
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There are bad nasties looking for machines that have not been updated with security patches.
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I wonder if we are going back to the days of vast Windows botnets, because so many people disabled updates.
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I can confirm several domain attached machines in my very small setup have at least had the files locally downloaded - no nagware (yet)
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Again, you can block installation of all further attempts by creating a dummy GWX folder in /%systemroot%/system32 and putting a DENY ACL for everyone on it, then making dummy registry keys and putting similar ACLs on those.
any time MS decides they want to put the dick in, the update service will be told no. No it can't write there, No it cant change that, and no that cannot be run.
This is the newer, software Microsoft?! (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm running the GWX control panel so hopefully that will prevent this.
I'm running Win10 on my secondary laptop and while it's nice, it doesn't add any features I find important, and I really don't like my OS becoming an advertising program. It nags me to buy the latest version of Office (which I don't need or want). Lord knows what else MS has in store in the future.
I'm thinking that Linux desktop or a Mac are in my future once Win7 support runs out in a few years. I'm not going to be coerced into an ad program by Microsoft.
I meant the newer, SOFTER Microsoft... (Score:2)
An error in the title.
GWX Control Panel stopping it? (Score:2)
Has anyone running GWX Control Panel seen this automatic WIndows 10 installation stopped/prevented?
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Yep, that's all good, but I'm asking about GWX Control Panel experiences since this latest issue started.
As a win10 user I recommend (Score:4, Interesting)
Seems to get a little worse with every "update" they install.
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the 30 day limit is fake. I did a clean reinstall back to Windows 7, 90 days out and the key activated just fine.
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The thirty day limit is for the simple revert in the case where Windows 10 was installed in-place instead of being a clean install. You can always do a clean reinstall after the thirty days.
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"that is to change USB-keyboards to PS/2 models to combat disappearing keyboards"
That actually doesn't help. I keep getting keyboard/mouse loss issues on my fiance's computer. Just recently, 10 decided its own iastor.sys was corrupt, and refused to boot altogether. A few hours later, suddenly, it works as if nothing ever happened.
Windows 10 is utter and complete garbage.
SubjectIsSubject (Score:5, Informative)
She has mild alzheimer's and forgets short-term so we can have the same conversation 3-4 times in an hour (which gives you lots of time to prepare an answer), so she forgot she had clicked okay when Windows Update had asked to upgrade. I'm glad I'd gone around when I had because there was only a week left before the change was irreversible.Thanks for the timebomb, douchebags
I would have left it. She does nothing on the computer besides Facebook and Solitaire but the performance was awful. All these new features and crap were beyond her realm. I downgraded her and found a tool that hides/deletes all the Windows 10 update crap so it wouldn't happen again.
She got hit by ransomware last week despite only using Facebook. I reckon it was one of those inescapable ads that warn you you're infected then proceed to catch you in a "Ok/Cancel" loop where Cancel just opens a new prompt.
She has nothing on that computer so I just nuked the drive and stuck Linux Mint on there and with some themes and such she can't tell the difference.
Year of the Linux Desktop amiright?
EULA (Score:3)
I wonder what happens if you don't accept the end-user license agreement. Surely it must ask for acceptance before it does anything.
Re:EULA (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder what happens if you don't accept the end-user license agreement. Surely it must ask for acceptance before it does anything.
I just read an article yesterday which recommended exact;y this as a way to deal with the problem. Just don't accept the EULA and Windows 10 won't be installed.
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I wonder what happens if you don't accept the end-user license agreement. Surely it must ask for acceptance before it does anything.
I just read an article yesterday which recommended exact;y this as a way to deal with the problem. Just don't accept the EULA and Windows 10 won't be installed.
You will be left with a bunch of wasted hard drive space if you do that. (Win 10 auto downloads before hand.)
What's to stop them from continuing to nag about it? Not accepting it once doesn't mean they wont ask again, and again....
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After declining, It confirms if you want to use the last restore point (presumably the point when Windows 10 hijacked your Windows 10 install).
Re:EULA (Score:5, Informative)
My son came home a couple of days ago to a surprise installation of Windows 10 on his desktop computer. When he was prompted to accept the EULA he chose "No". This resulted in the computer being rolled back to Windows 7. However, after restarting in Windows 7 a timer was displayed on the screen showing how long before the "update" was reinstalled. There was no option to cancel the process, only an option to delay it. So apparently you can say no to Windows 10, but they'll just shove it back at you again.
After killing gwx.exe and gwxux.exe via Task Manager, I merged the following registry keys to disable automatic OS upgrades:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
"DisableGWX"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade]
"AllowOSUpgrade"=dword:00000000
"ReservationsAllowed"=dword:00000000
Time will tell if this remains effective.
Action Center has started nagging too (Score:5, Informative)
I've got Windows Update set to download, but notify me before installing. This has been fine for years, today the Action Center ("resolve PC issues") sees this as a "problem" that it wants to resolve by switching updates to Automatic. I don't think so, Bob.
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Microsoft Bob(TM).
ok (Score:3)
some things can't be used in 10 (Score:2)
Had a client that I rolled back to 7. The next day it tried to go to 10 again. I then used GWX control panel, and it still gave her a screen that she tells me only gave the choice to put it off for up to three days. She chose the farthest away. I used this registry key.
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate
DWORD value: DisableOSUpgrade = 1
Hope it works.
Pretty easy to bypass. (Score:2)
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Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... (Score:5, Interesting)
The Thom Hartmann syndicated radio show got a rude introduction to Microsoft's new upgrade policy yesterday when their YouTube live stream server went offline and started upgrading while they were on the air. Thom Hartmann was freaking out and asking if listeners could help them switch to Ubuntu. They simulcast on terrestrial radio, Siriusxm, YouTube, and Free Speech TV. Hartmann was updating viewers on the upgrade completion percentage because viewers were complaining about losing their feed. He was livid but what can one do at that point?
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What can you do? you switch to your backup server.
That is what professionals do, Why they don't have a backup server really makes me question as to the quality of their techs and engineers.
Oh and WTF are they doing running their "server" on a desktop OS? Windows server would not have done and auto upgrade like that
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Oh and WTF are they doing running their "server" on a desktop OS? Windows server would not have done and auto upgrade like that
You seem to be suggesting that it is OK for MS Windows to do an auto-upgrade on a desktop version of the OS. Many people use their PC at home to do stuff that is important to them: write letters, edit photos, ... all things that, if interrupted will result in lost work. But you seem to suggest that it is OK to auto-upgrade and lose work on a home PC ? Why - are home PC users not important ?
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... (Score:4, Interesting)
if interrupted will result in lost work. But you seem to suggest that it is OK to auto-upgrade and lose work on a home PC ? Why - are home PC users not important ?
Is that all? A friend of mine had $2000 of damage to his telescope as a result of a windows upgrade. He's a home user with a home hobby. Stupidly he had windows 7 set to automatically install updates. He had his telescope software set to a sequence to take photos on the east side of the sky, flip around when the object got to the meridian and keep imaging till it was on the west side until sunrise where it would park back to the normal position. Normal operation for an equatorial mount is that it drives in one direction to compensate for earth rotation until told otherwise by software. Well at 3am his computer went down for a windows update.
When he woke he found a telescope with a camera that had hit the ground and had broken USB socket, broken power socket, broken glass on the CCD chamber, the tube on the telescope had bent and the motor in his mount had burnt out.
Losing work may be the normal default, but there are some cases where home users do something a bit more advanced with their OS. It was actually a good test case, he's showing now that despite the prevalence of special purpose apps on Windows if you try hard enough you can actually do astro-imaging on Linux, which is something which until he had his mishap everyone put in the too hard basket.
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Happened to one of my Win 7 Pro PCs on Friday (Score:2)
Immediately did the Windows 7 recovery which was unattended and smooth, to be fair to MS, but then I got a 1 hours countdown to Windows 10 install once I logged in, took about 4 clicks to navigate away from the "Go ahead and upgrade" buttons that were present at every step but did manage to cancel out.
Changed the Windows Update setting so I no longer do automatic updates on this PC and hid the Windows 10 Update so hopefully it'll stay on Win 7 now.
And while Win 10 seems perfectly usable, I let a spare lapto
The real solution (Score:5, Insightful)
I see a bunch of advice about how to jump through multiple flaming hoops to stay with Windows 7. Each works for a while and then MS sends out a new load of malware to again corrupt your PC. So here's the question:
WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT MIGRATING TO SOMETHING ELSE??!!!?
Just leave him. The abuse will not stop!
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WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT MIGRATING TO SOMETHING ELSE??!!!? ...
The abuse will not stop!
at this point, i'm convinced they like the abuse.
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Seriously? You can restore a backed up VM image in no time compared to the time and effort it takes to roll back an unwanted Windows 10 update. There, now go to it.
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The AC has a point. You can stick your data on a share to the Linux box and then roll back the Windows VM in an instant.
Unconscionable Contract (Score:5, Interesting)
Cyberman Nadella (Score:2, Funny)
There needs to be a Cyberman Nadella pic to go along with the Bill Gates Borg.
Cyberman: We have been upgraded.
The Doctor: Into what?
Cyberman: The next level of Windows. We are Windows 10. Every computer will receive a free upgrade. You will become like us.
The Sysadmin: I'm sorry. I'm so sorry for what's been done to you. But listen! This experiment ends - tonight!
Cyberman: Upgrading is compulsory.
The Sysadmin: And if I refuse?
The Doctor: Don't.
The Sysadmin: What happens if I refuse?
The Doctor: I'm telling y
What's the over/under on when... (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the over/under on when MS will flag GWX Control Panel as malware and have a "security update" remove it?
My money is on 60 days.
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Auto upgdate bricked machine (Score:2)
This happened to one of my machine.
Windows 7 automatically started Windows 10 upgrade. On boot up, the machine shows the initial Windows 10 screen and then the screen blanks and the computer never comes back.
Thanks Microsoft.
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I don't think you know what "bricked" means.
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For the purposes of most users, this is bricked. They do not get external install media to work from, Windows 10 usually trashes your partition tables and boot loader so your recovery partition is fucked, and in my case, after 10 tried installing itself on one machine, I tried to reinstall 7 from my VENDOR-PROVIDED USB stick only to get "You are missing a required CD/DVD device driver for installation." I couldn't even detect fucking hard drives to install to (UEFI sees all of them just fine) with the vendo
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We are always being told that we must not use Linux since you ''cannot sue Linux if things go wrong''. I wonder what would happen if you were to (try to) sue MS for bricking your machine - including your wasted time and your lost income recovering from them bricking your machine ?
Hit a friend of mine last night (Score:3)
So Microsoft succeeded in wasting an hour of her life when she was supposed to be back home in time to make dinner for her kids. When I was helping her buy and set up the system, I did pitch Linux or Google Apps as free alternatives. But she insisted on Windows and Office for compatibility with corporate clients and government forms. I suspect she'll be a lot more responsive to alternatives the next computer she gets.
* If it's true that it's asking users before installing, my guess is she was hit by a long time Windows bug/feature. Other OSes distinguish between an app being in the foreground (on top of other apps), and having focus. Windows doesn't - the app in the foreground always has focus, and the app with focus is always in the foreground. One of the downsides of this approach is that if a warning dialog pops up while you're typing, your keyboard input is immediately directed to the dialog (it needs to be on top so it's in the foreground, and since it's in the foreground it has focus). When you hit space or enter, the OK button (which is usually pre-selected) receives that keyboard input as confirmation. So you'll be merrily typing away, a dialog flashes on your screen for a millisecond before disappearing, and you have no idea WTF you just agreed to. In the Unix systems I've used, the dialog pops up on top, but the app you were typing in retains focus and thus keeps getting all your keystrokes. To dismiss the dialog, you have to first click it to give it focus, then it'll accept your click or space or enter on OK.
Re:Hit a friend of mine last night (Score:5, Informative)
MS Office 2007 now has more or less Platinum status in Wine 1.8
MS Office 2007 supports both the old MS Office as well as the new XML Office files. And it is very cheap to buy used from Ebay.
I recommend Kubuntu which is due in a couple of weeks.
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I have to correct myself. You should use playonlinux, since the wine package in the official ubuntu repo is 1.6 and I suspect Wine 1.8 to work better with Office. And Playonlinux is quite a nice interface.
I wish they waited until they were out of beta (Score:2)
Joke's on them (Score:4, Interesting)
C: drive in my Win partition is full. It refused to download even when I asked it to. Too stupid to work.
Treating symptoms (Score:2)
Why aren't we instead discussing the reasons people do not want Win10 - a free "upgrade"? I understand MSs reasons to want everyone to be on the same platform so that they can move that platform to a service subscription model, but .. isn't the elefant in the room the obvious shortcomings of Win10 as "the last OS Microsoft will release" for the PC platform?
I mean if this is really to be the last large scale release, I'm puzzled by the obvious touchscreen focused UI, the frankly backwards styling and the amo
I want to hug my Mac (Score:2)
All this stuff makes me want to hug my Mac and be thankful that Apple doesn't pull this shit.
Of course, that doesn't mean they might not pull this shit someday, and they already pull different shit (a security update broke the ethernet port on some iMacs recently for example). But every time I get annoyed at Apple about something I look across the aisle at Microsoft and it just seems a hell of a lot worse over there.
Also, Linux... My Linux server has been completely trouble free and stable as a rock.
Windows is "over" at last? (Score:3)
The one thing I'm NOT reading here is "What's wrong with a W10 upgrade?". For a while there, Microsoft was batting nearly 1000 - Win95, 98 and the NT that was there by 1999 were all improvements on the previous version. Everybody upgraded happily. Then it was like Star Trek movies, with every second one sucking, like ME and 2000.
And now, with 8, 8.1 and 10, MS seems to be on a losing streak. I heard some good things about 10 at first, but they've trailed off in a litany of complaints; the negatives clearly outweigh the few positives.
My employer was one of the ones that hung on to XP a long time - I think we were only fully to Win 7 by two years ago. The notion of another corporate-wide upgrade for 4000 machines is so exhausting that it's not even on the timetable, there's no budget to even start preliminary testing.
If the big corporate buyers that are their mainstay are no longer upgrading, it means new capabilities aren't going to appear. They're going to be outpaced by other options. They've lost the momentum, the initiative.
nope, not on my laptop (Score:2)
"good news is ... 30 days to downgrade..." (Score:2)
"The good news is that you have 30 days to downgrade to the previous version of the OS."
Imagine the average retail user, not expecting an upgrade, not prepared for an upgrade, so perhaps no recent backups and (if it's a home user) perhaps no backups at all. No IT department scan to check application compatibility and peripheral compatibility.
(And does this unsolicited upgrade check to make sure the computer meets Windows 10 system requirements?)
An installation on top of an existing installation, jumping two
Class Action anyone (Score:2)
I think a lawsuit over this could get class action status. This is where M$ could get hit hard over this. One would hope anyway....
How about pirated versions? (Score:2)
What I want to know ... (Score:2)
Why hasn't someone sued MS for time/productivity lost because one of these forced upgrades broke some mission critical piece of software?
Where I used to work we had a few servers that if they failed the productivity of the production floor would drop by about 30%, might not sound like much but in terms of labor and failed completion targets it could add up to thousands of dollars a day, And the software was pretty much locked to the OS, change the OS or update the wrong driver and it stopped working. I ke
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because anything that doesn't function a tech person at work or a tech relative has to deal with it
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Vast Majority? Are you INSANE?
The Vast majority have problems. Out of 10 friends and relatives with old machines all 10 had their computers screwed up by the "free" windows 10 upgrade because their 5 year old computers had hardware that does not have drivers for windows 10.
In fact this is the majority, People having it fail badly. The minority have it work flawlessly or have a 2 year old machine that was running windows 8.1
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10 upgrade because their 5 year old computers had hardware that does not have drivers for windows 10.
Must be some pretty esoteric hardware. Since windows 10 will run old dotmatrix printers from the 90's without even batting an eye, same with hardware telephone modems hooked up by parellel or serial ports.
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Excuse me, but could you inform me of "the hassle that Linux brings". I've been using it for nearly a couple of decades now, and for at least the last decade it's been less hassle than was the MSWind I switched from.
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As long as I need Windows for some VPN stuff I'm stuck.
Re:Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. (Score:5, Insightful)
Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both.
Whichever applies, you should uninstall this Windows-thing crap immediately.
First time, I can accept incompetent. The second, the third and the forth? Hello? Are you fucking kidding me?
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Third option: indifferent to users.
Putting users at a low priority is part of Microsoft's corporate DNA. And it makes sense. Microsoft products aren't ones users select and buy; they're selected for the users.
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This is very true -- at least with Apple (love them or hate them) their users are their customers -- and they act like it (mostly). With Microsoft, as a windows user, you are *not* their customer. Their customer is the manufacturer of the computer, or your employer. With W10 and "windows as a service" you (and any information about you that can be gleaned through your use of a computer -- and that is *alot* of information) are one of their products.
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Sadly, the majority of the population is too brain dead to do this, even with extensive help, not to mention the other issue of a re-install wiping out all their files (pictures, documents, etc) that they have never bothered to back up anywhere.
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People still get install discs with their computers?
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What fucking disk!?!? How many people actually get a disk these days?
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Why is it that most of those supporting MS seem to post A/C ?
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