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California Approves Dropping Rodenticide On Farallon Islands (sfgate.com) 116

Posted by BeauHD from the pest-control dept.
votsalo writes: The California Coastal Commission approved dropping rodenticide on Farallon Islands. "The rocky outcrop of sea stacks and islands west of the Golden Gate is home to 300,000 breeding seabirds, as well as five species of seals and sea lions," reports SFGate. "That unique biodiversity, however, also includes more than 1,000 mice per acre, a population that has exploded in recent years." The mice "were first introduced by sailors over a century ago." Dr. Jane Goodall argued against the poison at the hearing, but the Commission decided 5-3 to airdrop 3,000 pounds of poison by helicopters. ["The agency plans on dropping the poisoned bait in the winter months when bird numbers are lowest," the report adds.]
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California Approves Dropping Rodenticide On Farallon Islands More

California Approves Dropping Rodenticide On Farallon Islands

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  • Ooops .. (Score:4)

    by d4fseeker ( 1896770 ) on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @06:25AM (#62105295)
    In a few months: Oops who would have thought that sea lions eat the cadaver of the dead mice and then die too?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mysidia ( 191772 )

      Oops who would have thought that sea lions eat the ..

      They will most likely have considered risks such as this in their choice of where and which rodenticides to drop around the islands.

  • This is stupid and unnecessary, there are better (Score:5, Interesting)

    by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @06:29AM (#62105301) Journal

    options. Look up stock ticker SNES (yes, this is how I found it). They have a good technology and bad management. Essentially they make a rodent control product product that works by inducing menopause in mice/rats. It costs more than poison but is also much safer, more effective, and less cruel (most rat poisons cause them to bleed to death, this just stops them from being born and is more effective because it takes out generations).

    It's their only product, the management appear to have ousted the scientists founders who created it, it was even featured by Stephen Hawking at one point [theguardian.com].

    Their only real customer is already CA. It's been on a watchlist of mine for awhile because I found it by accident (I saw it on a top daily loss list once and it's SNES, come on) and went down the rabbit hole reading about the company as a potential investor.

    • Re:This is stupid and unnecessary, there are bette (Score:5, Informative)

      by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 ) on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @08:22AM (#62105473)
      That won't work. There's a good video about the issue [youtube.com] which covers this and other proposals. The current proposal is really the only viable one, even if it is just the least bad one.

      • They could release a bunch of hungry cats, but they'd probably eat the birds too, lol.

      • That won't work. There's a good video about the issue [youtube.com] which covers this and other proposals. The current proposal is really the only viable one, even if it is just the least bad one.

        The whole video is very good but for the impatient here's the specific response to the contraceptive bait [youtu.be].

        It sounds like the big problem is that because the contraceptive bait doesn't kill the mice, just prevents them from breeding at that time, you need to install a lot more baiting stations and keep refilling them year after year. Aside from being less effective (and more costly) it also creates a larger impact on the rest of the ecosystem.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mysidia ( 191772 )

          because the contraceptive bait doesn't kill the mice, just prevents them from breeding at that time

          More like: Rats can live for an average of 2 years, and they're looking for a "quick fix". The argument that the contraceptive bait harm the ecosystem by requiring more of it is BS - the underlying issue most likely is that it is too slow and expensive, so it is too little effect too late to manage the population that way now: the rat population is already too high for the approach to address the immediat

    • most rat poisons cause them to bleed to death, this just stops them from being born and is more effective because it takes out generations

      The general welfare for pests (yes, these rodents are classified as pests) are rarely a consideration when the goal is extermination. What is considered is efficacy. If it's not 100% effective then it's not a good investment. Further complicating matters is that one cannot be sure of it's efficacy for the entire lifetime of these rodents which could be years.

      The approach of SNES seems to be best when dealing with a long-term problem with constant migration. Since this is an isolated area, this is far fr

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by narcc ( 412956 )

        The general welfare for pests (yes, these rodents are classified as pests) are rarely a consideration when the goal is extermination.

        As sad as that is, there is a not-insignificant portion of the population that thinks we should increase the amount of needless suffering. Worse, they're actually proud of it. They're more than happy to tell you about the kinds of horrible things they would do, given sufficient resources, knowledge, or authority. I've even seen them compete with one another, each trying to out-do the other describing increasingly inhumane ways to remove unwanted animals.

        We need an ethical awakening. Badly.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      Although warfarin (or other anticoagulants) has been used as a rodent poison for some time there are newer poisons that cause the rodent to die of dehydration rather than bleeding to death (using gluten and salt is one method of doing this).
      I doubt they will go with this type of rat poison though.

    • Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hawk ( 1151 )

      >Look up stock ticker SNES

      I'm still using my Atari 2600, you insensitive clod!

  • Solution is easy (Score:3)

    by OpenSourced ( 323149 ) on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @06:29AM (#62105303) Journal

    Introduce ferrets in the islands!

    • They would very much like to keep the birds, the birds eggs, ...
      Otherwise, introducing cats would have solved the issue at almost no financial cost.

      The real issue is finding a way to dispose of _only_ the rat/mouse population. The island is richly populated by other mammals, birds, salamanders, insects, ...

      • > The real issue is finding a way to dispose of _only_ the rat/mouse population.

        Many, many years ago, in Germany they found a solution [wikipedia.org] to the problem. If California adopts the method, they should be careful not to cut the budget allocated for the work, or there will be nasty consequences...

        • Many, many years ago, in Germany they found a solution to the problem.

          Zer final solution to zer mouse problem!

        • We've had enough final solutions from Germany for one century.

      • That was a joke. A reference also to the "watchbirds" short story by Robert Sheckley. :-)

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        The problem with introducing another invasive species is you eventually have to deal with that species. Plus, there is no guaranty that the cats will go after the mice alone. They might decide to hunt the native critters, the ones you are trying to save from the mice.

        On the plus side it's easier to eliminate cats than mice. It's easier to shoot a cat.

    • Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't ferrets eat eggs?
      Lady I knew had a ferret and fed it quail eggs for a treat.
      Doesn't sound like something you'd want to loose on an island with endangered birds.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Megane ( 129182 )
      I know how this ends... when winter comes, the gorillas all freeze to death!

    • Or snakes! Just do it in spring so by winter all your problems will solve themselves.

      • Or snakes! Just do it in spring so by winter all your problems will solve themselves.

        Even if you assume that winter would kill all the snakes, there are still two problems with this idea. First, the snakes would also eat the native species and the bird's eggs. The second is that you would have to release an insane amount of snakes in order to take care of the problem in a single summer. Generally, whether it is snakes or cats, you would depend on the predators to also reproduce in order to help with the problem. Snakes only eat about 1 mouse a week and take several years to reach maturi

    • Introduce ferrets in the islands!

      Or mongooses [airtohawaii.com].

  • Baiting Stations (Score:3)

    by Canberra1 ( 3475749 ) on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @06:44AM (#62105325)
    Or you could have baiting stations, something like a 44 gallon drum with holes that only mice can get in to eat, or drink poisoned sweetened water . And compressed air to eject any strays occasionally. In New Zealand, there is a compressed air trap that fires a steel bolt to crack the rodents skull- fatally. The unanswered question is what are the mice eating, that has changed so as support plague numbers?
    • I don't think it is a mystery. Mice would be eating the eggs of the nesting seabirds.

      • I don't think it is a mystery. Mice would be eating the eggs of the nesting seabirds.

        Any animal growing to "plague" numbers isn't a mystery anyway. Life is about balance. Failure to introduce a natural predator in order to maintain that balance, is the usual answer.

        And according to the century-old storybook version here, we have sailors to blame for introducing an animal to an area that lacked natural predators.

        • Any animal growing to "plague" numbers isn't a mystery anyway. Life is about balance. Failure to introduce a natural predator in order to maintain that balance, is the usual answer.

          But they have introduced a natural predator. It's called 'The State of California'.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Rhipf ( 525263 )

          Can we really blame the sailors though?
          I kind of doubt the sailors purposefully introduced the mice to the island (although I wouldn't be surprised if they did) and instead the introduction was accidental when they landed on the island (mice and rats on ships isn't uncommon). There have been hundreds (thousands?) of such accidental introductions of invasive species around the world.

    • Problem with those sorts of things is that they only work when the numbers are already down to manageable levels. You mention New Zealand, the island sanctuaries there were cleared of leftover mice and rats when the numbers were already pretty small. With the numbers the reports are talking of, there's really only one viable approach initially which is mass poisoning. Then once the numbers are down to more manageable levels you can use traps and similar that won't be overwhelmed by plague-level numbers.
  • So if we kill all the mice and end up with 1000 poisoned mice carcasses per acre...

    I wonder what will eat those poisoned carcasses?
    [s](At least seabirds wouldn't eat poisoned mice!)[/s]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

      Yeah, I've never seen a seagull choke down fish or mice... never I say!

    • So if we kill all the mice and end up with 1000 poisoned mice carcasses per acre... I wonder what will eat those poisoned carcasses?

      Well, we could wait until the mice catch COVID instead, watch California leaders support the $900-billion Pesky Preservation Act in order to create vaccine boosters for Timmy Turtle and Mickey Mouse, and then deploy Shot SWAT teams to every childrens classroom to ensure 100% vaccine deployment.

      Don't worry though, your taxes will only go up as fast as inflation, so it's practically "free".

      We'll be voting to save the "poisoned" Sea Lions next year with Federal taxpayer bailouts, so look forward to that. If t

  • How about cutting loose about 60 cats per acre? They should be done in a couple of months.

    • How about cutting loose about 60 cats per acre? They should be done in a couple of months.

      Sure, but then you have the problem of herding cats.

    • But then birds would be done in couple of years.

    • Cats tend to also have a negative effect on bird populations. That's not a solution.

      • Cyber cat. A thing in the animals brain zaps it when it tries to attack a bird. Its just rediculously complex and expensive to get funded!

        • Cyber cat. A thing in the animals brain zaps it when it tries to attack a bird. Its just rediculously complex and expensive to get funded!

          Careful now - your second sentence makes that option sound REALLY attractive to most State politicians and administrators. You wouldn't be in the Cyber Cat business by any chance, would you?

    • Then all the birds will die out too.

  • California Approves Dropping Rodenticide ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @07:48AM (#62105405)

    California Approves Dropping Rodenticide On Farallon Islands

    Perhaps you guys in the US should try dropping some on Congress?

  • Gene drive with essential additive? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nokarmajustviewspls ( 7441308 ) on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @09:28AM (#62105569)

    So, maybe you've heard of the "gene drive" a technology so unexpected it was never even predicted by science fiction.

    What it does is use CRISPR to precisely insert a genetic sequence that causes ALL of the progeny of a mouse to be say male. Then, unlike other genetic technologies (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211203081525.htm) that can be used to restrict the sex of descendants, it copies this sequence AND ITSELF into the newly born mice. So all of their children are male. Repeat until the entire population becomes male and the population crashes.

    The problem is obvious, if this got out into "the wild" (off the island), it could make ALL mice EXTINCT. That's why some people favor using it for use against mosquitos for example. Despite the possible catastrophic effects on the ecosystem, smart people like Bill Gates who have spent hundreds of millions of dollars fruitlessly trying to stamp out malaria, support it being used against mosquitos. (We probably don't want all mice to be extinct, do we?)

    So what I'm wondering is, isn't it possible to tie the sex selection gene edit with removal of the gene for an essential vitamin? In this way, the introduction of these gene edited mice would be done concurrently with the dispersal of (say) Vitamin K on the island. This, the gene edited mice would no longer can make by themselves and require as a supplement. Keep supplying the Vitamin K only to the mice on the island and they will reproduce themselves into extinction, any that leave the island (and don't have the supplement) will die so you won't have to worry (so much) about it spreading. If it any time you want to "pull the plug" on the experiment, just stop supplying the Vitamin K.

    This technique is used when genetically engineering bacteria, you knock out a gene so that they require a supplement to survive. That way, it is hard for them to leave the dish! Of course as everyone who's seen Jurassic park knows, "Nature will find a way" but this, in combination with tight restrictions on transport to/from the islands, should do the trick.

    I mean, let's face it. All the rodenticide is going to do is cause the population to initially go way down but then the resistant surviving mice will rebuild the population in (considering how fast mice reproduce) a short time. Time to get out the genetic scalpels?

    • Despite the possible catastrophic effects on the ecosystem, smart people like Bill Gates who have spent hundreds of millions of dollars fruitlessly trying to stamp out malaria, support it being used against mosquitos. (We probably don't want all mice to be extinct, do we?)

      We arguably don't want all mice to be extinct because of the ripple effects, too many things depend upon them for food. But only one or two species depend on mosquitoes for food, and those species are only interesting because they eat mosquitoes — they don't have large numbers or large ranges. So unless it can cross to another species there's really no danger in using it to wipe out mosquitoes.

    • Interesting points. I guess the problem is that the mice are rapidly destroying the natural wildlife, so long-term but safe solutions run the risk of losing the birds, etc. while waiting for the mice to die out. That seems to be the reason why they are going with poison.

    • You wouldn't need to worry about the sex selection if you did your second method of knocking out a gene.
      You could introduce a mouse who required a specific vitamin then remove that vitamin after a few months.
      This would likely be quite a bit slower though unless you could give the new mouse some competitive advantage.
      A quicker solution would seem to be a contagious virus that only targets mice. There are likely quite a few
      we could choose from. Many viruses will not jump species so you would presumably try

    • I mean, let's face it. All the rodenticide is going to do is cause the population to initially go way down but then the resistant surviving mice will rebuild the population in (considering how fast mice reproduce) a short time.

      It helps to actually know something about a subject instead of just speculating from ignorance.

      This has been done successfully hundreds of times now, 117 of them just in New Zealand up through 2016 [newzealandecology.org] and has been successful on the rather large South Georgia Island, Lord Howe Island, Hawadax ("Rat") Island and scores of others around the world. This is a proven, well developed technique (developed in New Zealand [issg.org]).

      It turns out, if you drop enough pellets containing a potent vitamin K synthesis inhibitor (which

      • I stand corrected! I had no idea that rodenticides were so effective (and apparently difficult/impossible to evolve resistance to). My only information on the subject was a documentary I saw (also about New Zealand!) where they had spent millions of dollars and sent teams of men (and dogs?) to try to eradicate a stubborn infestation of mice.

        My main purpose was to stimulate conversation and awareness of new, powerful (and dangerous) biotechnologies. I am a major investor/director in a BioTech company and

    • You are the very definition of a mad scientist that could destroy the world and it is scary., All of this over a bunch of mice. Howabout just forget about the problem and stop messing around with crazy stuff that could get out of hand and cause a global ecological holocaust

  • There is a better way to reduce the rodent population. All they needed to do is introduce natural predators such as hawks and falcons to the island. Dumb people making dumb decisions.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      Name one predator that won't eventually also have an effect on the other wildlife on the island.
      Sure you could introduce hawks or falcons but to combat the number of mice on the island you would need A LOT of raptors. These raptors would compete for space with the other birds on the island thus affecting those populations. You could introduce cats but then that cat will eventually prey on the birds on the island. There are probably a dozen other predators that could be introduced but each would eventually h

      • You obviously don't understand the behavior of predatory animals. The raptors will hunt in the area until the mice population is back to normal and then fly back to the mainland to hunt. They will also return to the island to hunt again. When there is an overpopulation of mice don't hide very well. I live in a rural location and an old stone wall borders my backyard property with the woodlands. There lots of chipmunks and field mice that live in the crack of the stone wall. This morning my wife saw
      • LMAO... A Redtail Hawk would eat a cat for lunch. Hawks are native to the area. All you need to do is make the hawks aware of the plentiful bounty to harvest and nature will take care of the rest. Hawks do prey on smaller birds too but smaller birds would eat the poison too. Hawks prefer to eat rodents so.. it's a win
      • Nope.. It's been done here in my neck of the woods. It works fine. The mice population will eventually drop and the Raptors will return to the mainland to hunt.

    • There is a better way to reduce the rodent population. All they needed to do is introduce natural predators such as hawks and falcons to the island. Dumb people making dumb decisions.

      Because... all that wild raptors need to establish a successful breeding population on a tiny windswept treeless rocky island is mice? Mice that would... devore the eggs of the raptors like they do the seabirds?

      Ah, today's self-appointed slashdot "expert" who knows a few things and fantasizes that makes him the expert who can solve the world's problems from his keyboard.

      Sure this is obvious and easy to do and no one ever thought of it because they aren't as smart as you. Right.

  • A few weeks of gunnery practice will wipe out the population.

  • The best-laid plans of mice and men... (Score:3)

    by kackle ( 910159 ) on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @10:14AM (#62105649)
    What could possibly go wrong? (See future Slashdot article for details.)

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 )

      Just tossing this out there but why can't we infect the population of the island with a natural virus that only affects mice? The virus kills off the mice then with no hosts the virus dies off. Is this even feasible?

      • I don't know whether I'm qualified to comment because I'm too apathetic to discover why they feel they need to remove the mice in the first place, but it seems like that's a lot of laboratory mice that could be used versus killing twice as many.

      • It was attempted with the myxomatosis virus in Australia to eliminate rabbits in 1950, and then the rabbit hemorrhagic disease virus (RHDV) in 1966 and it did knock down the population to low levels both times, but the (now disease resistant) rabbits came back. It may have been useful, but it did not achieve the goal of elimination.

        So probably not, at least it is not yet been demonstrated.

        The bait pellet technique has been proven to work hundreds of times however. It took time to develop them [issg.org], but they have

  • All birds gone - mice remain?

  • Serious question. What's their food source on the island and why hasn't that been wiped out by the mice population?

    • >What's their food source on the island and why hasn't that been wiped out by the mice population?

      This video mentions crickets https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] and that the mice compete with birds.

      If the mice have been there for hundreds of years, I'm curious what has changed to cause the mice population to get so high.

  • so they are worried about some animals maybe dying because of the mice, so they kill all the mice? i struggle to see the point of this... havent you just ended as much life as you hope to save?

  • All the stray/feral cats slated to be euthenized? Scoop them up and put them on the islands instead. Cats eat the mice, and no cats are killed.

  • One thing that's always surprised me about San Francisco is despite being one of the densest cities in America (usually tied with, or in 2nd place after manhattan) and literal tons of trash, the seagull population here is super tiny, other than for a couple months in the spring they don't hardly exist.

    We also have a wild parrot population here due to a pet store escape in the 70s, they were having a health issue and after some studies found out that they had consumed significant quantities of rat po

    • There could be a lot of factors other than that to discourage gulls in SF. The first thing coming to mind is that the high-rise core is a bird of prey environment of artificial canyons. I think that keeps pigeons down also. Outside of the high rise core, SF food may be too expensive for humans to throw away, LOL. Gulls love garbage. They'd probably rather hang out at the land fill than SF. Their natural food is along the immediate coasts, but in SF the natural coast line has piers and stuff that shut

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