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United States Security

Cyber Command Chief Confirms US Took Part in Offensive Cyber Operations (reuters.com) 69

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
U.S. Cyber Command Director Gen. Paul Nakasone confirmed for the first time that the U.S. had conducted offensive cyber operations in support of Ukraine. From a report: "We've conducted a series of operations across the full spectrum: offensive, defensive, [and] information operations," Nakasone said in an interview Wednesday with Sky News, a British television news channel. Although the general did not provide specifics, he said the operations were lawful and conducted with civilian oversight of the military. "My job is to provide a series of options to the secretary of Defense and the president, and so that's what I do," he told Sky News. Nakasone previously said his agency deployed a "hunt forward" team in December to help Ukraine shore up its cyber defenses and networks against active threats. But his latest remarks appear to be the first time that a U.S. official said publicly that the U.S. has been involved in offensive cyber operations in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
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Cyber Command Chief Confirms US Took Part in Offensive Cyber Operations More

Cyber Command Chief Confirms US Took Part in Offensive Cyber Operations

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  • I'm not sure... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Halueth ( 776646 ) on Thursday June 02, 2022 @11:46AM (#62586896)
    ...but isn't this open participation in a war? Can this be seen as a declaration of war?

    • Can this be seen as a declaration of war?

      The US practically invented "special military operation." Congress hasn't declared war since 1942.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by crow ( 16139 )

        We would have after 9/11 if al-Qaeda had been the government of Afghanistan instead of an independent organization. And if we had recognized the Taliban as the government of Afghanistan, we might have. The Congressional authorization after 9/11 was as close to a declaration of war as we've had since WWII.

        • We would have after 9/11 if al-Qaeda had been the government of Afghanistan instead of an independent organization.

          I wonder how the Vietnamese feel about that?

    • Was this a phenomenally dumb announcement to make? Yes. Either Reuters is misreporting it, or General Nakasone should be cashiered for saying it.

      The only "excuse" the US cyber force has to conduct offensive operations is if Russia is doing them to the US or NATO right now. Even operating in a manner to sabotage the Russian military in Ukraine is a bad idea, since that would constitute active participation in military activity in Ukraine.

      • Fog of War and all that you know... we all know that the first victim is Truth, so please take it all with a grain of salt

      • if Russia is doing them to the US or NATO right now

        Of course they are. They didn't wait for a conflict - they seem to always be on the attack. They can pretend it's turning a blind eye toward criminal enterprises but that gives them a lot of cover for their own operations.

        • Its pretty much a given that America & Europe is most vulnerable to cyber operations because our societies are so computerized and dependent upon computerization. Whatever hacking we can inflict upon Russia or China does not compare to how easy it is for them to hack us and inflict real damage, as well as social chaos. A couple of years ago, the Southeastern states experienced a huge jump in oil prices because a strategic oil pipeline was busted.

          I can understand announcing US offensive use of hacking

      • I'm wondering too WTF is with our Federal leaders in giving out so much military info that should be very close to the chest and not revealed....!?!?

        Geez....with military actions, especially one such as this with many potential implications of escalated war, why the fuck would you be tipping your hand on any activities or plans you have?!?

        Military actions and plans are not shit you need to be pushing to your twitter feed for God's sake.

        • The problem with your complaint is that it implies that you think you're smarter than the entire United States defense and intelligence apparatus.

          If top officials are making statements about our involvement you can be sure that at least one of the following things is true: One, the enemy already knows. Two, they want the enemy to know, and for other people to know as well.

          The people you think are such idiots know about classification, and you have never given any indication you're smarter than they are.

          • The problem with your complaint is that it implies that you think you're smarter than the entire United States defense and intelligence apparatus.

            If top officials are making statements about our involvement you can be sure that at least one of the following things is true: One, the enemy already knows. Two, they want the enemy to know, and for other people to know as well.

            The people you think are such idiots know about classification, and you have never given any indication you're smarter than they are.

            • recent gaffes about defending Taiwan

              You're doing it again, right now. Your BDS is so strong you can't even realize that you're doing it while you're doing it.

              in past years we had a much better record of military security

              [citation needed]

              • You're doing it again, right now. Your BDS is so strong you can't even realize that you're doing it while you're doing it.

                It isn't derangement to observe what is plainly happening before you.

                Biden is an idiot...he always has been. I started watching and listening to him back in about 2002 or so when he first caught my attention watching Sunday morning news shows.

                At first I thought he was on the ball with foreign policy....but later as I watched him, I figured that wasn't the case.

                Right now, I think on t

                • Look, Biden is getting to be incompetently old. But he's not an idiot overall. I don't think he's a great guy, and in large part in fact I think he's full of shit. But let's just talk about the Taiwan thing and nothing else for a minute.

                  Pretend you're the POTUS and the USA has a treaty that obligates us to provide military aid to some literal ally, and someone asks you if you're going to honor that treaty against any of the potential aggressors who might conceivably fuck with a US ally. What are you going t

        • Part of the US strategy from the very beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine was to give out as much information as possible, declassifying many things, even when there were risks involved. Remember the US stated that Russia was going to invade even when Putin was directly telling heads-of-state that no invasion was imminent. This was a clear information strategy to show the world that the US intelligence was superior and credible.

          After the failure that was the whole Iraq WMD debacle, this strateg

          • Part of the US strategy from the very beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine was to give out as much information as possible, declassifying many things, even when there were risks involved. Remember the US stated that Russia was going to invade even when Putin was directly telling heads-of-state that no invasion was imminent. This was a clear information strategy to show the world that the US intelligence was superior and credible.

            And that instance, DID seem to be strategically well done and executed

            • There are times when we clearly have done that. Ukraine never had twenty aircraft that just needed parts in order to be flying combat missions but they have twenty more fixed wing aircraft now due to 'parts shipments'!

        • It's an election year and they want to be seen doing something. Or, the press already had it cold from other sources anyway and was going to publish, so they decided to add some detail on the record in order to make it look purposeful.

          It's the old politician-press spin game that's been played for 50+ years.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by amorsen ( 7485 )

        It's a planned announcement to probe Russian red lines. Analysts will now gauge the Russian response.

        Both sides are trying to figure out precisely how much pressure they can bring to bear, without the whole thing going boom. It is the nuclear version of a game of chicken.

        • So you're suggesting Biden/State Dept. is willing for the Russians to conduct sabotage operations to our oil pipelines or other critical infrastructure, in order to test a red line?

          Frankly, I think all of Russia's red lines are pretty damn clear, because Putin does operate with a semblance of "what he thinks he can get away with". I don't believe Putin was interested in conducting cybersabotage operations in the US or Europe, because it would trigger direct involvement from either party. But Putin is more

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Ksevio ( 865461 )

            Russia already does that and the certainly knew the US government was behind attacks already.

      • It doesn't say we conducted offensive operations against targets in Russian or against Russian military and government targets. It said we conducted offensive operations in support of Ukraine. The most likely "offensive operation" that we conducted is attacks against global botnets known to be controlled by Russian affiliated groups and reduced Russia ability to conduct offensive operations against Ukraine. At least that's my take on the situation. All of this most likely "off the books" stuff run by the

      • Was this a phenomenally dumb announcement to make? Yes. Either Reuters is misreporting it, or General Nakasone should be cashiered for saying it.

        The only "excuse" the US cyber force has to conduct offensive operations is if Russia is doing them to the US or NATO right now. Even operating in a manner to sabotage the Russian military in Ukraine is a bad idea, since that would constitute active participation in military activity in Ukraine.

        I suspect it's a very deliberate announcement.

        For years Russia has been sending out the GRU and ransomware gangs to attack the west and sell the narrative that there's this bunch of scary super-talented Russian hackers.

        Now, just like Ukraine is showing that the big scary Russian army isn't all it's cracked up to be the US is taking the opportunity to show that their hackers aren't that great either.

        The only reason Russian hackers have been scoring all the big wins over the past few years is because they wer

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by crow ( 16139 )

      So what?

      The US and Russia keep dancing around this issue, as neither wants to be in a direct war. Both sides use the threat of war to try to manage the actions of the other. Russia keeps saying that the next weapons system would be crossing a line, but then we send it and nothing changes. At the same time, we hold back on providing weapons that would be particularly useful in attacking Russian bases in Russia, and Ukraine refuses to acknowledge their attacks in Russia.

      It's no secret that we've been shari

    • For Nato, a serious cyberattack could trigger Article 5 of our founding treaty.

      Source [prospectmagazine.co.uk]

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by dirc ( 254647 )

      Yes, this is open participation in the war.
      Yes, it can be seen as a declaration of war, but probably won't be. Other examples from history:
      - Russian fighter pilots manned "Chinese" fighter aircraft in the Korean War. The US did not expand the Korean War to Russia.
      - Russian fighter pilots manned "Egyptian" fighter aircraft in the October 1973 War. Israel did not expand the war to Russia.
      - Chinese and Russian advisors manned North Vietnamese SAM missile sites. The US did not expand the war to either nation.
      -

    • I don't know, was Russian involvement in 2016 election an act of war?

      Was selling Kaspersky "security" software in the West an act of war?

      Seems to be a gray area

    • ...but isn't this open participation in a war? Can this be seen as a declaration of war?

      No. This is a special electronic operation designed to liberate Russian computers from hackers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Proteus ( 1926 )

      Generally, countries don't consider even offensive cyber operations to be acts of war. Every country has said they reserve the right to change their mind, but countries like Russia with their own cyberops capability don't really want to push that button -- they've definitely been relying on cyberops not being seen as acts of war, and it's in their interests to keep that status quo.

      At some point, some offensive op will go too far and some major power will see it as an act of war. That's going to be a huge ev

    • If it is, then we've been at war with Russia for quite some time, as they have not had a problem conducting cyber war on the US at all. Sure, they'll claim it was 3rd party "rogue" actors, but they do nothing about it and actually get in the way of anyone trying to do anything about it, so it's pretty hard not to view it as non-official cyber war.

      The US just didn't bother with the weak shit deniability that nobody at all believes.

    • "Offensive operations" doesn't mean we went offensive against the government or military of Russia. It could mean we went after some of their "affiliated" groups that might take orders from their government but officially don't so Russia has "deniability". It also doesn't mean we went offensive against targets located inside of Russia. My guess is that we went after a number of known Russian affiliated botnets that are distributed around the globe and destroyed their ability to operate.

    • ...but isn't this open participation in a war? Can this be seen as a declaration of war?

      Giving arms and intel to one side of a conflict is a declaration of war?

      Then the USSR declared war on the US in Vietnam.

      And the US declared war on the USSR in Afghanistan.

      And Russia and the US declared war on each other in Syria.

      This is absolutely SOP when a great power wants to help a country defend itself from invasion without directly entering the conflict.

      The reason why Russia is kicking up a stink is it's not actually a great power anymore so this "help" is allowing the Ukraine to match and potentiall

    • No, for whatever reason offensive cyber operations don't count. Which is why we aren't already in a shooting war with China and Russia.

  • Why is this idiot spilling the beans? Biden's admin leaks like a sieve, and in all the wrong ways.

    • Like the other side did not know it...

      Really - they are not idiots...

    • I don't think its a leak when you intentionally declassify stuff for strategic purposes.

    • Why is this idiot spilling the beans? Biden's admin leaks like a sieve, and in all the wrong ways.

      How have you gotten this far without knowing about intentional leaks? Are you new?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by RobinH ( 124750 )
      You think a person whose job it is to run information warfare campaigns doesn't carefully consider whether it's good or bad to release a bit of information like this?

    • That's one possibility.

      Another possibility is that the Russians already know the US has been doing these things, and the press got wind of it and was going to publish; so by going on the record they look far less incompetent at operational security.

      Telling the world what the world already knows isn't a security risk. It just clears deniability, which would be laughed at anyway. There's literally no downside to this unless Russia decides to overreact. After all, we didn't launch missiles at Moscow when th

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mmell ( 832646 )
      They spy on us. We spy back. We hack at them. They hack back. We know it. They know it. Everyone else on Earth knows it. Looks like somebody fell off the merry-go-round, eh?

  • Great news. The other side is doing it for years... election, pipeline, BLM, industrial espionage...

    Finally there should be response for that...

  • Cyber command: because random 18 year Olds who sign up for the military are sure to have the absolute best hacker skills. Seriously, what pool of talent can cyber command pull from? I bet they have an amazing budget, and have bought some nifty tools, but a serious threat to anyone? Seriously?
    • The 18 year olds probably attended a boot camp for hackers. Easy-peasy, just like learn-to-code camps.

    • Do you really think they didn't develop training materials from techniques and tools created at CIA / NSA?

      Seriously?

      They probably don't get all the latest and greatest shit out of the intelligence apparatus because that would be reserved for use by the intelligence agencies for intelligence gathering, but they very likely still get good shit that is very effective at causing chaos and wreaking havoc.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Hodr ( 219920 )

      Cyber command has a military structure and leadership, but the "work" is almost entirely performed by civilian employees of the different service components that make up the command.

      You can literally look it up on their website, and even apply for a job.

  • What ever happened to keeping your mouth shut? I don't know what's going on with higher ups in the Military just willy-nilly reveling possible classified, definitely sensitive, information like this of late, but Gen. Nakasone needs to be removed from his position, stripped of his rank, and possibly charged with reveling classified information. Prior to 45's traitorous ass reveling classified info on Twitter, this kind of shit would be dealt with swiftly.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mmell ( 832646 )
      Did he reveal operational information, or anything classified? I'll settle for FOUO. C'mon, help me undersand, because I don't get what you're upset about. Was he reading from a file folder marked "Top Secret: I'd go back if I were you!"?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by bjwest ( 14070 )

        Did he reveal operational information, or anything classified?

        Yes, to the first part of that. He publicly confirmed the U.S. engaged in cyber warfare against Russia in support of Ukraine. FTFS:

        "We've conducted a series of operations across the full spectrum: offensive, defensive, [and] information operations,"

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