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Mozilla Firefox Technology

Mozilla Looks To Its Next Chapter (techcrunch.com) 111

Mozilla today released its annual "State of Mozilla" report and for the most part, the news here is positive. From a report: Mozilla Corporation, the for-profit side of the overall Mozilla organization, generated $585 million from its search partnerships, subscriptions and ad revenue in 2021 -- up 25% from the year before. And while Mozilla continues to mostly rely on its search partnerships, revenue from its new products like the Mozilla VPN, Mozilla Developer Network (MDN) Plus, Pocket and others now accounts for $57 million of its revenue, up 125% compared to the previous year. For the most part, that's driven by ads on the New Tab in Firefox and in Pocket, but the security products now also have an annual revenue of $4 million.

With the launch of this year's report, the Mozilla leadership team is also taking some time to look ahead, because in many ways, this is an inflection point for Mozilla. When Mozilla was founded, the internet was essentially the web and the browser was the way to access it. Since then, the way we experience the internet has changed dramatically and while the browser is still one of the most important tools around, it's not the only one. With that, Mozilla, too, has to change. Its Firefox browser has gone from dominating the space to being something of a niche product, but the organization's mission ("to ensure the internet is a global public resource, open and accessible to all") is just as important today -- and maybe more so -- as it was almost 25 years ago when Mozilla was founded.

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Mozilla Looks To Its Next Chapter

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  • You can also donate (Score:5, Informative)

    by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @10:47AM (#63057956)
    If you're like me and disable these partnerships like search, sponsored links and Pocket, you can donate directly to Mozilla: https://donate.mozilla.org/en-US/
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

      If you're like me and disable these partnerships like search, sponsored links and Pocket, you can donate directly to Mozilla: https://donate.mozilla.org/en-... [mozilla.org]

      Why? Donating a bunch of money is what led to their spending $20M on Pocket, which is a data-gathering operation. I'll donate when Pocket, Sponsored Links, and all the other shit that doesn't belong in the browser is an extension I can disable, not until. They clearly don't need my money, because they are uninterested in delivering the uncrufted browser I want.

      • by preflex ( 1840068 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:51PM (#63058286)

        You can turn off all the nuisances in settings->home and settings->privacy. To completely disable pocket, use about:config.

        I'm sorry that's too much work for you. But, I guess if you refuse to do that, Mozilla can count on that sweet ad revenue in lieu of your donation. (Well, I suppose you could use googleware instead, but that's unlikely to improve your experience.)

        • I guess if you refuse to do that, Mozilla can count on that sweet ad revenue in lieu of your donation.

          94% of Mozilla's $441M yearly income (at least, that's what they pulled down in 2022) comes from corporations. We can never, ever compete with that. They are the customers. We are insects. They ignore what we ask for. There is absolutely no sense in giving them money as a user.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Why?

        You don't have to, but don't complain when the web reduces to chromium derived browsers with less good privacy protections only.

        I'll donate when Pocket, Sponsored Links, and all the other shit that doesn't belong in the browser is an extension I can disable, not until.

        about:config extensions.pocket.enabled=false
        settings, search for "sponsored", uncheck "shortcuts" and "recommended by pocket"

        You're welcome by the way. So, how much are you donating and when, out of interest?

        If you REALLY hate dormant co

  • Room for Improvement (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @10:53AM (#63057986)

    I think cubes would be a great feature to implement.

    Qubes, the OS, isolates different parts of web browsing. So, when you open a browser to log in to your bank account, it's sandboxed from the browser you are accessing social media with, or your email. It's not incognito, it's a regular browser but with a completely separate filesystem and process space. That way, if a trojan worms it's way into your browser (usually through social media) it can't XSS it's way into anything else more important you might be doing.

    Microsoft kinda-sorta does this with isolated browsing in Edge, using Hyper-V. Qubes manages the different sessions as groups, though, so all your financial/banking links open in that browser, all your social media links open in another. Then, there's a temporary junk session for opening new/untested/unknown links.

    It would probably be a major undertaking, but security is one of the biggest issues when using the web these days, and constantly patching zero-days isn't the way to fix it.

    • What you are asking for is something the browser can never safely provide. This addon gives the best imitation of it that you can reasonably expect:
      https://addons.mozilla.org/en-... [mozilla.org]

      Otherwise, just start a new browser, it will be in its own memory space. That already provides the functionality you want. Start each one with its own profile, and configure it with its own appearance settings so you can tell them apart.

    • by Scoth ( 879800 )

      I had thought I remembered something about this being done in Firefox and had to look it up. It looks like there's been a project underway to have site isolation split sites into separate process spaces. Seems Firefox 95 has it enabled by default. It does claim sandboxing of various parts of the browser from system resources, but I suspect it's not as robust as a fully enforced window into file systems and such. I don't know enough about the architecture to say.

      There's also the Multi-Account Containers add-

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Firefox is my only browser, mainly because the bookmarks work great, password integration tools, awesome YT ad filters and download tools, etc. I can't really think of anything negative to say about it.

    OTOH, I won't use chrome or edge. I don't like or trust either in the least.

    • I use Firefox exclusively as well and I have plenty of negative things to say about it. Where to begin... I'll save the major issues for last. Firstly the ads everywhere, pocket, sync, homepage, search. You can disable all of them.... For now. Still rankles. Secondly, sync itself, why can't we have this service available in a way that allows me to keep it local/run my own service? Default to DNS over http to break my entire local network DNS. And this is all ignoring the structural issues and indec

      • Firstly the ads everywhere, pocket, sync, homepage, search. You can disable all of them.... For now.

        Your negative thing to say about them is paranoia? Yes you can disable them. There is no sign of this ever changing.

        Secondly, sync itself, why can't we have this service available in a way that allows me to keep it local/run my own service?

        https://homegrowntechie.com/se... [homegrowntechie.com]

        It took you longer to write out your whinge than to type "firefox sync self hosted" into google.

        Default to DNS over http to break my entir

  • by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:03AM (#63058010)
    Then these web browsers came along and ruined it.
  • With all the extra money they can afford to bring back xul support, keep supporting Windows 7 and even bring back Windows XP support due to the popularity of the Mypal browser.
    • > bring back xul support

      WebASM is probably fine for a XUL-like front-end. It would be nice to have rich streaming web interfaces. Native would be even better but maybe that's downstream.

      I spoke with some people at Apple about this back in '98. It was a bit early.

    • We need Mac PowerPC support, too
      • Why are you hating on 68k Macs?!

        My Quadra 800 needs a modern browser that can fit inside of 16MB of RAM and runs on a 30 year old operating system!!

        • I have a Mac SE and SE/30. Even have an Ethernet card if I ever find a thin net network to hook it to. Just don't think a browser will ever be required.
    • >"With all the extra money they can afford to bring back xul support"

      That probably isn't going to happen because (my understanding) is that it was just not compatible with multi-threading and some security concerns. And much of their excuse is because it causes all kinds of bugs and issues. But they *DO* need to expose more UI controls to extensions in WebExtensions API. They promised they would, and it hasn't really happened. Extensions still cannot move tabs to bottom, and can't change the style of

  • by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:20AM (#63058054)
    Mozilla will begin signing Mv3 extensions for Firefox next week - https://www.theregister.com/20... [theregister.com]

    .

    How many add-ons will be lost with this change?

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @01:11PM (#63058346) Homepage Journal

      Zero. Mozilla has already said that it will keep supporting Manifest V2.

      • For how long? They're dropping whole operating systems people are still using for one reason or another, and in some cases it's because they have to. Now they will have to use an outdated browser in addition to an outdated OS. They dropped Javascript support for PowerPC a long time ago, even though there are bunches of such machines still functioning, and still plenty quick by even modern standards. It's safer to assume they'll drop it while people are still using it than the opposite.

      • Do they have an official support policy? If not, then I don't trust them and I don't care.

        Yes, I'm too lazy to check myself. I use a Firefox fork these days.

      • But the question lingers in the air... why didn't Mozilla inform its users of this change? Why did I have to read about the change on a tech website? (btw, thanks to theregister.com for informing me of this) I mean, just how self-absorbed has Mozlla become? And maybe the answer to that question might be an answer to why FireFox has plummeted in market share.
  • by poptopdrop ( 6713596 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:25AM (#63058074)

    Now, after YEARS OF WAITING, let US decide which Android extensions WE want to install on OUR OWN PHONES without jumping through your pathetic hoops.

    FFS.

  • All the armchair developers here are so smart, and know how to make the perfect browser, so why don't any of you do it?
    • I'm just a user who wants a working browser from developers who do not seem to be intent upon making changes just because they can make changes.
    • Because minus the lack of the ability to make a Download Statusbar like Chomre for Firefox and the lack of ability to remove the menu button, Waterfox now has a whole Look & Feel section to fix a lot of the more glaring issues with Firefox.
      • >"Because minus the lack of the ability to make a Download Statusbar like Chomre for Firefox and the lack of ability to remove the menu button, Waterfox now has a whole Look & Feel section to fix a lot of the more glaring issues with Firefox."

        The problem with Waterfox [Current] is that it will lag behind on security and performance, using an older engine. It might have more problems with some of sites, at well. I have sites already break when using an older Quantum, so it has to be worse for Waterf

    • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:26PM (#63058614) Homepage Journal

      Firefox is a clusterfuck. Just building it is hard. That's why there's so few forks.

      And instead of unfucking it, they keep dumping stuff into it, rearranging the interface every few months... exactly the opposite of what's being asked for.

      Firefox's only core user base is nerds, and they are ignoring what we actually ask for. The only reason anyone but us nerds uses it is because we install it, so they are utterly dependent on us... but give zero fucks what we want.

  • Seriously.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by deKernel ( 65640 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:27AM (#63058084)

    $585M ... _seriously_. What in the heck do they do with all that money? This is a serious question because I have no idea how they can burn through that amount of capital.

    • Hrm, 750 employees @ $250K is $187.5M.

      Obviously office space and hardware and server space are expensive. But that's a big gap.

      Good question. The Foundation's financials are probably public.

    • At some point, at least, it was a lot of political action. I think they caught a lock of flak for that; not sure if they curtailed it, or just went quiet about it.
  • by BrendaEM ( 871664 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:52AM (#63058154) Homepage
    It looks like the more they sell out the less money they have. I still miss Scrapbook. Nothing has replaced it, and Mozilla did everything they could to prevent it from being made, so they can promote their Pocket service?
    • by Kiliani ( 816330 )

      Ah, Scrapbook ... I remember that. We old! Liked it, too.

    • I still miss Scrapbook. Nothing has replaced it, and Mozilla did everything they could to prevent it from being made, so they can promote their Pocket service?

      Yes. I am still pissed off about that constantly. Aardvark and Scrapbook+ together made for an ideal archival solution, or at least the capture half. They broke it, then instead of fixing it like users were asking for, they spent $20M of donation money on Pocket and integrated it instead of making it an extension like it should be.

      As a consequence, I refuse to donate, but they don't need my money do they? They get all their need in large donations from organizations that they listen to instead of the users.

  • With the launch of this year's report, the Mozilla leadership team is also taking some time to look ahead, because in many ways, this is an inflection point for Mozilla.

    Seems like there's an article every six months for the past 15 years about how Mozilla is at an inflection point.

  • I like all my data (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:24PM (#63058224)
    not going to google. Thanks Mozilla! The only thing I want from you is a better grouped tabs function.
    • by 0xG ( 712423 )

      not going to google. Thanks Mozilla! The only thing I want from you is a better grouped tabs function.

      AND STOP FUCKING AROUND WITH THE UI

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Since I upgraded my phone, Firefox for Android became usable. The bug that broke it on other devices is still there, but apparently at some certain screen size it fixes itself.

      So for me I just hope they keep developing Firefox for Android and make some UI improvements. Tab groups like Chrome has would be really nice. Mostly though it's already a great experience for most sites, especially with DarkReader installed. I've nearly got enough CSS hacks in uBlock to make Slashdot usable too.

  • What was it at its peak? What happened to cause the decline? Maybe developers making changes because they cuold, and not because the customer base asked for those changes?
    • Most of the changes I really hated over the years had some reason behind them. They trimmed down about:config a lot because all those preferences were supposedly causing memory issues. They switched to the much more restrictive Chrome extension model because they were tired of wasting effort debugging problems that arose from bad extensions messing with the chrome.They dropped support for older OSes because that was the trade-off required to move to more efficient/safer OS-native threading and sandboxing in

    • >"What happened to cause the decline? Maybe developers making changes because they cuold, and not because the customer base asked for those changes?"

      The majority of the downfall was that Mozilla was caught in a bind with the old extensions model and had to fight to get the engine up to spec for multithreading and better performance. They did that, and it is every bit as fast, and perhaps more efficient in many ways to Chrom*, and has been for many years now. However during that period, they lost some p

      • {{{-The majority of the downfall was that Mozilla was caught in a bind -}}} --- The majority of the downfall was that the developers went off on an expedition without any manner of explanation to their customers, or the extension developers, why it was being done. It just seemed to happen. Thunderbird had the same problem, so it seemed to be systemic within Mozilla at the time. The extension developers had to be in reactive mode, Mozilla developers ambushed them.
  • by Casandro ( 751346 ) on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:19PM (#63058982)

    The purpose of Mozilla is to develop their browser. They have enough money to do so and they could easily afford to do so just by donations alone.

    The reason why so few people donate is that Mozilla deviates from their purpose. To make matters worse they have highly paid management structures which actively work against the reason this company exists.

    However the problem lies somewhat deeper. The web is now so bloated it needs huge companies just to keep up with it. It used to be a managable task to write a browser. Now only the largest software companies can do so. Even Microsoft stopped developing their own browser engine. We are moving towards an oligopoly where arguably the most important piece of software is controlled by very few large entities not really interested in Free (as in Speech) software.

    This is a sign that the web as we know it is dying. Companies like Google, Facebook and Co aim to replace it with something more like you had in commercial online services of the 1990s.

  • Fire everyone involved in the decision to compel upgrades, and especially by mysteriously freezing the browser and popping a nag tab, and publish their names to reduce their chances of infecting some other product.
  • I'm fairly indifferent to the collection of my data -- if somebody thinks they're going to sell me something based on whatever info they glean from my web activity they're wasting their money -- which is a good thing. What I DO hate is that one by one the extensions that I've loved for many years are eliminated and that I have to use Chrome (which I hate) to deal with more and more websites that simply don't work with Firefox.

  • Copy user.js from https://github.com/arkenfox/us... [github.com] in your firefox default folder in about:profiles

Business is a good game -- lots of competition and minimum of rules. You keep score with money. -- Nolan Bushnell, founder of Atari

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