A $700 Million Bonanza for the Winners of Crypto's Collapse: Lawyers (msn.com) 121
An anonymous Slashdot reader shared this report from the New York Times:
The collapse in cryptocurrency prices last year forced a procession of major firms into bankruptcy, triggering a government crackdown and erasing the savings of millions of inexperienced investors. But for a small group of corporate turnaround specialists, crypto's implosion has become a financial bonanza.
Lawyers, accountants, consultants, cryptocurrency analysts and other professionals have racked up more than $700 million in fees since last year from the bankruptcies of five major crypto firms, including the digital currency exchange FTX, according to a New York Times analysis of court records. That sum is likely to grow significantly as the cases unfold over the coming months. Large fees are common in corporate bankruptcies, which require complex and time-intensive legal work to untangle. But in the crypto world, the mounting fees have sparked widespread outrage because many of the people owed money are amateur traders who lost their personal savings, rather than corporations with the ability to weather a financial crisis. Every dollar in fees is deducted from the pool of funds that will be returned to creditors at the end of the bankruptcies.
The fees are "exorbitant and ridiculous," said Daniel Frishberg, a 19-year-old investor who lost about $3,000 when the crypto company Celsius Network filed for bankruptcy last year. "At every hearing, they have an army of people there, and most of them don't need to be there. You don't need 20 people taking notes."
Lawyers, accountants, consultants, cryptocurrency analysts and other professionals have racked up more than $700 million in fees since last year from the bankruptcies of five major crypto firms, including the digital currency exchange FTX, according to a New York Times analysis of court records. That sum is likely to grow significantly as the cases unfold over the coming months. Large fees are common in corporate bankruptcies, which require complex and time-intensive legal work to untangle. But in the crypto world, the mounting fees have sparked widespread outrage because many of the people owed money are amateur traders who lost their personal savings, rather than corporations with the ability to weather a financial crisis. Every dollar in fees is deducted from the pool of funds that will be returned to creditors at the end of the bankruptcies.
The fees are "exorbitant and ridiculous," said Daniel Frishberg, a 19-year-old investor who lost about $3,000 when the crypto company Celsius Network filed for bankruptcy last year. "At every hearing, they have an army of people there, and most of them don't need to be there. You don't need 20 people taking notes."
It wasn't all waste of time and resources (Score:4, Insightful)
Obligatory Shakespeare reference aside, lawyers serve a purpose. Even the bankruptcy ones. Somebody needs to clean up the mess that was created by crypto scammers. As for the fees, in the words of Gordon Gekko: "Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred from one perception to another."
Re: (Score:2)
Obligatory Shakespeare reference aside, lawyers serve a purpose.
They do, but without some check on their rates, if you allow them to charge what they want, they charge absurd number of hours at exorbitant fees.
Re: (Score:3)
It wasn't all waste of time and resources
Well actually it pretty much was.... So these guys have been sponging off the rest of us, dumping the CO2 that runs their cryptomines into our shared atmosphere. Failing to pay the taxes that we have to pay so that the police protect them. Making space for criminal payments that we have to deal with the consequences of. Suddenly they need the support of the courts that we paid for in the meantime to get back some part of what they threw away and they're complaining about the price?
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
A judge explained why everyone interprets that Shakespeare quote: "First thing we'll do is kill all the lawyers," wrong. It's from Macbeth, and these insurgents are planning an overthrow of government. Thus the lawyers would be an impediment to lawlessness.
Re: (Score:2)
A judge explained why everyone interprets that Shakespeare quote: "First thing we'll do is kill all the lawyers," wrong. It's from Macbeth, and these insurgents are planning an overthrow of government. Thus the lawyers would be an impediment to lawlessness.
It might also make the insurgents popular.
Re:It wasn't all waste of time and resources (Score:4, Informative)
It's a bit more complicated than that; when you look at what they're complaining the lawyers have done, they are actually terrible things that lawyers have done.
"Is not this a lamentable thing, that of the skin of an innocent lamb should be made parchment, that parchment, being scribbl'd o'er, should undo a man? Some say the bee stings; but I say 'tis the bee's wax, for I did but seal once to a thing, and I was never mine own man since."
Re: (Score:1)
Hmm, maybe I'll reread it. Thanks for the insight!
Re:It wasn't all waste of time and resources (Score:4, Interesting)
Partly right.
It's not from Macbeth, it's from Henry VI, Part 2.
But yes, a lot of ideas are being thrown around for how great things will be after the crown is usurped: it'll be illegal to drink small beer (i.e. the barely-alcoholic stuff people drank as a safer substitute to water), everything will be owned in common, the king will provide for everyone, and they just need to all agree on Jack Cade, the rebel leader, being king.
While it is a criticism of lawlessness it also criticizes lawyers for tending to support existing power structures.
Re: (Score:2)
The money gained and lost on crypto is no different from gambling - a transfer of money between people, roughly neutral for the overall economy. The resources used to program the machines, the hardware and the energy us
I don't think Gekko was right (Score:2)
If
Long term, prices can only go up! (Score:4, Insightful)
My 20 something crypto bro nephew still talks dumb shit about how, "long term, bitcoin can only go up, but all those other coins are bad".
But, ask him to say why bitcoin is different from the other coins, or what the unpinning real world value of a bitcoin is based on other than fomo, or any other very basic financial question and he just spews random words he got off crypto bro websites he clearly doesn't understand.
People like him and those who follow his social media have already lost a ton of money and over time will lose the rest. Cynically speaking, I am glad he is losing his shirt as a very young man, learning how the world works now, not later on when it would cost him more and too late to recover, leaving his family in financial distress.
Tulips can be had for a few bucks at my local supermarket right now.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
I found the video on youtube to be insightful, though I also found Dan's dismay at how being rich isn't a hindrance in the new crypto landscape to be a bit naive. Very few scenario's in life are made easier by being in poverty. Still I don't believe there was anything in the video that would make one convert religions or change genders. Just try to avoid rolling your e
Re: (Score:1)
I can't testify to the general truth of that statement, while there's certainly some, I don't think crypto bros are overly anti-semitic, but that gives you some idea that he's not a fan of anti-semitism.
I can also recommend giving "In Search Of A Flat Earth" a look, which is not only about Flat Earth but about general conspiracy sentiments which go
Re: Long term, prices can only go up! (Score:2)
If it's as extremely rare as you say, then what's the problem with banning sex change surgery and irreversible medical procedures until adulthood again?
Re: (Score:1)
He's abusing the language. What is the definition of "rare" when applied to mutilating children? He tries to have it both ways by saying it is so rare we shouldn't worry about it while at the same time saying this is some hugely important thing we should always push forward. The idea that every child goes through extensive therapy before being mutilated or drugged is ridiculous. We know from people in the medical field working on these kids, the kids' own stories and from their parents that simply is no
Re: (Score:1)
Apparently, not hating Jews or trans is now trolling here. Unsurprising.
Re:Long term, prices can only go up! (Score:5, Insightful)
At the end of the day, imho the best explanation of why its *doomed* to fail, is because Bitcoin is the ultimate in the very thing the cryptobros despise, a fiat currency. Its only got value because people believe it does, and unlike regular money, it doesnt have the combined armies of the worlds governments to give that belief power. And *power* is what really gives a currency value. The power to buy things, the power to enclose land , the power to command labor, and even the power to stave off death (via medicine). And power is always backstopped with the violence of a state (and without states money is meaningless). And that power is why paper money will always have value because the only power cryptocurrency commands is the power to hope nobody notices the whole thing is an illusion.
Ultimately bitcoins real value is simply how much *actual* money you can trade it for, it doesnt have its own value. And that mean when the real value of bitcoin is just "how many USD I can trade it for" its always going to be a a case of how much money goes in minus how much goes out but the money always goes out. I buy a a bitcoin from you, I have $10,000 less, you have $10,000 more. Does that mean I have $10,000 worth of bitcoin? No, I have $0 worth of bitcoin and MAYBE a chance that someone else will give me $10,000 or maybe more, or maybe less. But that $10000 isnt money I have when I hold that bitcoin, that $10000 is money the guy I brought it from has. I have $0.
Now, one might complain thats always how buying stuff works, but other things I buy have other forms of value, for instance a meal has value in the form of nourishment, or a house has value in the form of the structure and the shelter it provides. Shares have value as a percentage ownership in a business. But what value does the bitcoin have? Nothing, it serves no purpose except as a promisary note that isnt actually a promisary note because the guy I got it from doesnt have to give the money back to me.
Theres precisely one other scheme with this sort of value system. And thats the Ponzi scheme. The only difference here is, this is a distributed ponzi scheme. A network of grift instead of a heirachy of grift. But like a Ponzi scheme, theres still that saturation point where once enough people are in the system, theres no more money to be exchanged for bitcoins, and the whole system collapses and *everyone* loses.
So ultimately, like the Ponzi scheme, the only people who win, are the guys who cashed out early. The only way to succeed, is to leave.
Re: (Score:2)
Because with the value of Bitcoin that you mined just now going up, and energy prices trending down, you can buy a lot more energy in a couple of years than you used for mining that Bitcoin.
At that time I was speechless at the perplexing profound stupidity in such a statement, but regardless, I believe that comment was also rated Insightful.
Technically, all currency is fiat currency (Score:2)
The problem with your theory is that all currency has the same characteristics you ascribe to Bitcoin. The truth is that everything is worth precisely what someone will trade for it at that moment in time in barter. Believing in some intrinsic value in anything is deluding yourself.
Gold bugs take note - it doesn't have a fixed value at all. Otherwise, the value of gold would follow currency inflation in lockstep, which it manifestly does not. There was a long period of time when the USG tried to peg the
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well the fact it's legal tender to pay taxes is an advantage in that country. Other than that...it may inflate at a different rate than other currencies. True, there is an ultimate defense against it having no value at all, but with something like Bitcoin, a lot would have to happen for it to be valueless.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The real difference between Bitcoin and “real money” is that invariably the controllers of the economy backing the “real money” have a vested interest in not seeing its value change too drastically - in either direction.
Bitcoin holders, traders and miners however have a vested interest in seeing Bitcoins value increase as quickly as possible.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A network of grift instead of a heirachy of grift.
I think its fast becoming a zombie apocalypse of grift as well.
Re: (Score:1)
It is all good except for this:
and without states money is meaningless
- without money the state is meaningless maybe, but not the other way around. Use gold as money by weight and there is no reason to worry about which state you are trading in.
Re: (Score:2)
You can make a different take on the same topic, by thinking that all things end, and when Bitcoin ends, the money that got into Bitcoins will be the same as the money that got out, minus fees. Then ask yourself which side of the equation are you likely to be.
Re: (Score:1)
Gold is weird. I think it's some culturally based historical thing rather than anything sensible. Gold is like the pre-crypto era crypto.
My mom has been trading gold forever, it seems. Still does. When I ask her what drives it up and down her answer is similar to the crypto bros. Store of value, hedge against inflation, etc, etc. and then she acknowledges it's really not based on anything more than enough other people doing the same thing. Very odd.
For a while she did own several bars of real physical
Re: (Score:2)
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/08/why-bitcoin-doesnt-seem-to-be-a-hedge-against-inflation.html
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
My 20 something crypto bro nephew still talks dumb shit about how, "long term, bitcoin can only go up, but all those other coins are bad".
But, ask him to say why bitcoin is different from the other coins, or what the unpinning real world value of a bitcoin is based on other than fomo, or any other very basic financial question and he just spews random words he got off crypto bro websites he clearly doesn't understand.
This is why religion is so harmful to people. It teaches people that it is OK to believe things just because someone says so, without having to bother to verify the truth. This makes them more vulnerable to what is said by con men of all sorts.
Yes: I know that I will be modded down by religious people as my comment will cause feelings of cognitive dissonance.
Re: (Score:2)
>I know that I will be modded down by religious people
Adults should not believe in supernatural beings controlling the world, ESPECIALLY since there is absolutely zero evidence of that being the case. And it's dangerous to let them, because they do indeed apply that kind of thinking outside their places of worship. I'd care a lot less if it didn't affect my life.
I'm so damn sick of them all. My cognitive dissonance comes when I have to overlook the faith of some otherwise intelligent good people I cal
Re: (Score:2)
Only very ignorant people conflate personal faith with religion, and I doubt many of those who believe that their religion IS a religon read /., and only those would get upset.
Re: (Score:2)
I am sufficiently ignorant to not have understood what you mean. Please explain.
Re: (Score:2)
Belief in some kind of higher power is a personal faith. Most churchgoers fall into this category.
Belief in the strictures of a religion is something else, and belief in them to the point where you'd threaten the life of someone else for saying something that violates dogma...that's another level of pathology.
A lot of people treat their beliefs as a religion without realizing it, and are actually offended if you point that out.
Re: (Score:2)
This is why religion is so harmful to people. It teaches people that it is OK to believe things just because someone says so, without having to bother to verify the truth.
To be fair that's the way most people operate, not just the religious. For instance, I'd wager quite a lot of folks who are on board with global warming happening couldnt tell you the whys or hows and they most certainly never took the time to verify what they have been told is true, they just know the people on TV say it's happening (although very recently we've had an awful lot of severe weather that can be pointed to and people can certainly understand that).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
He still has a point.
In 2009, you could buy a Bitcoin for 10 cents.
By 2011 it rose to 30$, a 3000% gain.
By 2013 it was worth first 230$ and 1240$ by the end of the year.
By 2017 it was at almost 20.000$
In 2021 it reached the all time high of 63.558$
Bitcoin also experiences spectacular crashes of up to 80% throughout this time, and every single time, people have said that Crypto is dead. But if you look at the data, the trajectory is clear.
One of the reasons for this high volatility is that nobody really know
Re: (Score:2)
One of the reasons for this high volatility is that nobody really knows what a Bitcoin and Crypto in general is worth.
$0 outside of other people thinking it has 'unknown' and/or 'unlimited' worth.
I'm just continuously shocked at how long the pyramid scheme can keep going. But then, Madoff operated for decades as well.
I won't dispute that there's a lot of gambling when it comes to stock investments, but at least there's stuff behind the stock - the company itself, which is a business that is(hopefully) making money.
Even things like gold, well, you can always use it to make jewelry and such, which is worth something.
Bitcoin
Re: (Score:1)
In 2023, all the people who bought above the current price of 25k got fucked. Big time. I notice you forgot that critical part of your graph.
We can do the same timeline with tulips. The tulip craze lasted several years, had its ups n down and crazy sub-type pricing for different colors, etc, and ultimately went to effectively zero. Go read the wiki article. Some fascinating stuff on human nature in there.
Since that tulip craze time the price of tulips has not recovered. It's been a looooong time. I'm
Re: (Score:2)
Say that you have a group of people, let's call them Arnold, Beatrix, Charlie and Dave, who regularly go out on activities. To keep things simple, someone always takes the bill; They go to a restaurant, Arnold takes the bill. Next week they go to the cinema, Beatrix takes the bill, etc.
They track these expenses on a ledger, and once a year they go through the calculations and balance it out, by paying each other out whatever they owe. Overall, it's a big time saver opposed to everyone paying his own bill ev
Re: (Score:1)
All that said, and Bitcoin is still a really stupid invention. It wastes gobs of electricity and is just a Ponzi scheme. I trust the banks to not mess up more than I trust Bitcoin.
Re: (Score:1)
When banks make errors, they get corrected. When a bank employee makes a mistake or is unethical, there are systems in place to audit and correct. When a bank collapses, there are other systems in place to make good on deposits. And so on.
The risk of your money getting lost in a bank today is as close to zero as you can get. The entire economic system would have to utterly collapse for your money to truly disappear on you. At that point you[d be more interested in a gun and a dog and thick walls anyway
Re: (Score:2)
Humans make mistakes and have incentives that are not necessarily aligned with the common good. Bitcoin has neither, it's just a protocol like http.
-There was the great depression in the 30's where many people lost their savings because banks couldn't meet withdrawals.
-There was the savings and loan crisis in the 80's and 90's resulting in government bailouts covered by tax payers.
-Countless banking crises in developing countries with failed banks and people losing your savings, that you never heard of beca
Re: (Score:2)
Instead of any one taking care of the ledger, every one has to pay a tax to keep the ledger active.
Trust is still a central issue for any transaction. I purchase a service or good, what is my recourse if I don't get the goods or services? If I get the goods or services up front before payment, how does the merchant know I will pay afterwards? This is why third parties get involved. and why DAO's were created with smart contracts. However the smart contracts have
Re: (Score:2)
Crypto crashed because Russian oligarchs had their assets frozen
Nonsense.
Quit pretending funny money is anything but a global front for criminal enterprise.
The Internet is used plenty by cyber criminals. Anything that is useful will be used by criminals as well. Estimates say 85% of emails are spam or malicious.
Should we stop the Internet now? Will you stop using email?
Re: (Score:2)
Should we stop the Internet now?
I decline to run a tor node, despite my belief in free speech and assisting those behind censorious regimes, because I decline to use my resources to help facilitate the distribution of CSAM.
I see zero reason to engage with a "currency" whose primary use case is speculators and international criminals. That's without factoring in the ridiculous carbon footprint. What's your answer to that? How is it justifiable at all when one considers the climate crisis?
Re: (Score:2)
That's why tulips are now $457,000 each.
Re: (Score:1)
Fuck! I sold my tulips at $238k!!! What was I thinking?! I should have HODL!! Obviously tulips could only go up!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
The people who lost money were anyone who bought above the current price. By definition their net worth is lower now. The reason for +5 is because most people here understand crypto is tulips with a higher power drain. Nothing more. It has no long term future. It isn't replacing traditional fiat. It is a fascinating psychological/criminology experiment and nothing more.
Can you answer the questions my nephew can't?
No. You can't. I've been asking very trivial questions to crypto bros for yeaaaarrrrrrss
Re: (Score:2)
It's all a scam. Every generation chases the white whale of a get-rich-quick scheme, as your tulip reference suggests. In my analysis of stupid people, I've realized that they work hard to shore up their weakness. Stupid people observe smart people and conclude that they use big words as a sort of secret code, and that nobody must be able to actually understand this code (generalizing from their own inability to understand it). In addition stupid people observe that smart people are 'confident' when the
Re: (Score:2)
It's all a scam. Every generation chases the white whale of a get-rich-quick scheme, as your tulip reference suggests. In my analysis of stupid people, I've realized that they work hard to shore up their weakness. Stupid people observe smart people and conclude that they use big words as a sort of secret code, and that nobody must be able to actually understand this code (generalizing from their own inability to understand it). In addition stupid people observe that smart people are 'confident' when they use these code words, not really realizing the distinction between facts and opinions.
You left out religion.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Long term, prices can only go up! (Score:4, Informative)
Easy, the government demands that taxes are paid in paper currency and royalties for minerals extracted from its territory are also paid in paper currency. That's called "creating demand". If the paper currency is stable enough to make the conversion from whatever (gold, silver, other paper currencies etc) to paper currency not worth the hassle, paper currency will also be used for other transactions, and that's how paper currency has value.
That's not the main reason paper currency has value. The real source of value of USD or other modern fiat currencies is much deeper, and much stronger. Not that payments to government doesn't play a role, but it's a relatively minor one when examining the source of the currency's value.
The larger and more important reason that US dollars and similar fiat currencies have value is how they're created and destroyed. Every dollar created is balanced at point of creation by the creation of a corresponding debt, and the dollar is destroyed when that debt is repaid. This means that every dollar is backed by a legally-enforceable promise from someone to do some kind of value-generating work. When the work is done and the debt is paid, the dollar ceases to exist.
To say this another way, US dollars are backed by debt, by promises to do work that provides value.
For example, suppose you want a house. For simplicity let's suppose you already own the land, Supposing hat the construction will cost $300k, you go to the bank and borrow $300k for the house. Where does that money come from? The bank creates it to "lend" to you [1]. At the same time they create that money, they also create a debt contract: You are obligated to somehow come up with $300k plus interest to repay that loan. As you repay the loan, every dollar of principal you pay off is a dollar that ceases to exist. This is the case with every dollar non-fraudulently created. Counterfeiting breaks this system, of course, but it's manageable as long as the counterfeiting rate is small enough. Debt discharged through bankruptcy doesn't break it; those debts are absorbed by the banks, decreasing their profits.
This, by the way, is the reason that the Federal Reserve Board can change the money supply by tweaking the interest rates [2]. When rates go up, borrowers become less likely to borrow, which slows the creation of new money. When rates go down, borrowers become more likely to borrow, which accelerates the creation of new money. Meanwhile, the destruction of old money happens a relatively constant rate (ignoring debt rollovers).
This is actually a brilliant system. It means that the money supply does not constrain the economy. As the economy grows more money is naturally made available to facilitate that growth. And the money supply can also shrink when the economy does, preventing runaway devaluation of the currency. The central bank and government have control levers that enable them to manage inflation rates, keeping inflation reasonably low but positive. Low-but-positive inflation is a good thing because it keeps money working -- stuffing your mattress with cash is a bad idea if cash gradually loses value, so you're incentivized to invest extra cash in productive enterprise.
[1] Fractional reserve banking means that the bank must have a reserve corresponding to a fraction of what they lend to you. At present, the reserve ratio in the US and UK is zero, so banks create 100% of the money they lend. That's a relatively recent thing in the US (happened during COVID), but the UK has had a zero fractional reserve for 30 years, and it's entirely possible that the US will keep it that way. Regulators seem to believe that other measures of bank liquidity and asset management are more useful for preventing bank failures than reserve requirements.
[2] The fed doesn't directly control the rates that are charged by banks, which are based on many factors including risk. But the inter-bank lending rates that the fed does directly control indirectly affect commercial and retail interest rates.
Re: (Score:2)
Every dollar created is balanced at point of creation by the creation of a corresponding debt, and the dollar is destroyed when that debt is repaid
This is just flat out bullshit. A complete and utter lie
Re: (Score:2)
Every dollar created is balanced at point of creation by the creation of a corresponding debt, and the dollar is destroyed when that debt is repaid This is just flat out bullshit. A complete and utter lie
There are small exceptions at the edges, but it's absolutely how things work. Here's an extremely oversimplified version from a more authoritative source: https://www.investopedia.com/a... [investopedia.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Well sort of, the can't lend out money they don't have, but they can lend out money (simplified) they borrow from depositors.
Say A puts $100 in the bank, B borrows $90, A thinks you they have $100 and b thinks they have $90 so total money supply is 190.
If A was the only customer then they could take out that $100 but since the bank has a lot of customers and they don't all take out their money at the same time everything is good.
Re: (Score:1)
Which is why a bank run will easily kill a bank as we've seen recently.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is why a bank run will easily kill a bank as we've seen recently.
What we saw recently was a bank failure caused by a run, but it's worth pointing out that the bank's customers weren't more than inconvenienced. There are mechanisms in place to protect them, and the system as a whole.
Re: (Score:2)
Well sort of, the can't lend out money they don't have, but they can lend out money (simplified) they borrow from depositors.
Say A puts $100 in the bank, B borrows $90, A thinks you they have $100 and b thinks they have $90 so total money supply is 190.
If A was the only customer then they could take out that $100 but since the bank has a lot of customers and they don't all take out their money at the same time everything is good.
It's a somewhat philosophical question as to whether the bank in your scenario lent B $90 of A's money, or whether the bank created $90 to lend to B. When looking at the money supply, it's clearer and simpler to think of it as the latter, that the bank created the money lent to B, because A's money is still there in the bank's ledger, payable to A upon demand. Also, your scenario is incomplete: After B gets the $90, B then pays it to C, who deposits it in the bank. Now the bank's ledgers actually show $190
Re: (Score:2)
Ask yourself why bitcoin is priced in USD instead of USD being priced in bitcoin.
How many people say, "I have $10k USD in bitcoin" vs "I have .5 bitcoin in USD (when they have $13k in hand)"?
The first one we see every day. The second one I've never seen.
Why is it? Do you agree with my nephew? Can it only go up? What is the real world financial underpinnings of bitcoin? Other than fomo, what gives bitcoin value? I can buy pretty much anything in USD. Everyone accepts it and it is in fact _required_ fo
Re: Long term, prices can only go up! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: Long term, prices can only go up! (Score:5, Funny)
The best bitcoin metaphor remains @Theophite's on twitter:
"imagine if keeping your car idling 24/7 produced solved Sudokus you could trade for heroin"
Re: (Score:1)
I didn't know about the increased cost of hydro power to normal people. Thanks for that. I'll add that to my list next time I talk crypto with him.
Re: (Score:3)
I didn't know about the increased cost of hydro power to normal people.
Many jurisdictions with hydro power treat it as a public resource. New York State is the one I'm most familiar with, the history there has to do with the (over)development of Niagara Falls by private industry, and eventually the State (along with Ontario) decided to treat it as a public resource. The resulting power generation goes to the New York State Power Authority and is sold at cost to public utilities and some private businesses. Later, additional hydro resources and a few other (NYPA operated a n
Re: (Score:1)
Again, thank you. Very informative. I very much enjoy when I learn something new here.
Re: (Score:2)
Joking aside, i think crypto or no crypto the climate mess is going to lead to some juicy litigation in the not too distant furture.
Re: (Score:3)
Easy. A paper dollar is practically worthless in and of itself. It's dyed paper. But what it represents is $1 of economic exchange value, backed up by the authority of the U.S. government.
You're making the same mistake every gold bug and silver bug had made for centuries, and the same one that every crypto bro makes. You want "money" to be a store of value in and of itself.
It's not. Money is a means of evaluating economic worth and facilitating economic transactions. It's a way o
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Nah, as far as I can tell he's a boring middle of the road conservative and not generally interested in politics.
I'm the one hoping for President Harris. Joe is pretty boring. Same shtick for 50 years, retelling the same ridiculous stories. But Kamala is fucking hilarious. Every speech is uh different and uniquely entertaining! I'd vote for her just to sit back 4 years with a popcorn bucket!
Re:Long term, prices can only go u (Score:1)
The value of a USD is based on the fact that you _need_ them to buy critically needed things like uh food energy, and other good stuff. You can buy those things (except oil) in other currencies but they're all convertible at very stable exchange rates anyway.
Oh yeah, and nuclear weapons.
Bitcoin is not stable, is not useful as currency, is not backed by unclear weapons.
At least tulips are pretty. What good is a bitcoin? It's a thing you go through some bullshit to convert to a real currency so you can sp
Re: (Score:1)
Look up this phrase: "Past performance is no guarantee of future results". The better you understand that the better an investor you'll be.
Tulips went up to super crazy price levels, too. It took several years for that crazy shit to come crashing down, too. Go check out the Wikipedia article on it. Great stuff. You can pretty much replace "tulip" with "bitcoin" in that article and ignore the dates and it's all still true including the pending fatal last crypto crash. No one can predict the future wi
News for nerds, stuff that matters (Score:2)
Lawyers suck.
film at 11.
You've chosen the wrong career path (Score:5, Interesting)
Daniel Frishberg, a 19-year-old investor
At 19, you're not an invester. You're a teenager who thinks he knows how the world operates. Newsflash: you don't.
Take my advice and change your career path and become a lawyer. You can bill $ 2,500 per hour and still have enough work.
Re: (Score:2)
Dear Daniel;
For less than the cost of a semester of college you have learned a more valuable lesson than anything college can teach you. Furthermore, you have learned it at a time in your life when you have decades to recover from it.
Best wishes,
Reality.
Re: You've chosen the wrong career path (Score:2)
uh, he's still complaining about how the lawyers, which were hired by the company taking his money, are "unnecessary," which strongly suggests that he hasn't learned a goddam thing and still thinks the company is actually on his side but SOMEHOW overrun by LAWYERS who are intent on bleeding him.
lessons don't always work. if the founders of celsius started another company and whispered enough sweet nothings in his ear, this would all happen again.
Re: (Score:2)
We can witness a 21-year old kid take a WSOP championship bracelet and beat poker legends with decades of experience, but somehow it's a statistical impossibility for any 19-year old to be able to learn how to invest in markets when they can start learning how to at...YouTube age?
Maybe we should accept reality every now and then. Like the reality that teenage millionaires are about as rare as $2,500/hour lawyers.
expected (Score:4, Interesting)
Meh. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
crypto works ! (Score:4, Insightful)
the lawyers... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No, but if the lawyers don't get priority why would they work on a bankruptcy case where they already know someone's not going to get paid all (or any) of what they're owed?
If the bankruptcy is simple enough, you can get by without a lawyer (though it is not necessarily the best idea, even then). But for a complicated one, you basically need them, so that's the trade-off.
I know a number of bankruptcy lawyers; they'd be perfectly happy doing something else if people never needed them. But they're not to bl
The lawyers always win... (Score:2)
I lost thousands... (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Dude. The lesson you got, from getting scammed from investing in something someone told you was "safer than a bank", was "don't trust exchanges"? You are going to get scammed again if you don't wise up.
Re: (Score:2)
It's just natural (Score:2)
Whenever great catastrophes come and cause a lot of death and destruction in an ecosystem, the ones that get to feast are the vultures and other scavengers.
19 year old angry at lawyers... (Score:4, Insightful)
Love that the 19 year old "investor" who, almost by definition, doesn't understand what he was doing with crypto (e.g. Let's just read the statement "An 18 year old invested $3000 in cryptocurrency" shall we?) is angry that folks who went to school and learned a valuable trade (e.g. Lawyers, though I guess we could argue the real value of lawyers, but I digress) won't fix his massive screw up for cheaper.
Sorry, I thought part of the appeal of crypto was that it was free of all those government oversights and interference from banks and borders, etc. And yet here we are, folks begging for courts, countries, and banks to fix the F-up once it's happened.
Re: (Score:2)
It's sounding less like expensive specialized cleanup work and more like Jarndyce and Jarndyce. That was the estate lawsuit in Dickens, inspired by true stories, in which lawyers looted the entire estate for fees leaving nothing to whoever the rightful heirs would have turned out to be.
Lawyers got richer? Figgers (Score:1)
Good stuff happens: lawyers get rich.
Bad stuff happens: lawyers get richer.
Really bad stuff happens: lawyers & undertakers get rich.
What a stupid quote. (Score:3)
Yes, Daniel Frishberg, a 19 year old who lost thousands of dollars, definitely seems like the appropriate person to analyze the needs of a team of professionals. I'm sure he's worked on a lot of legal teams in his 19 years.
19 years old? (Score:2)
At 18 I got my first credit card, and it was 15 years before I no longer had a card payment - much of it "minimum". And I was a "smart" 18 year old.
He's not alone. This craze tapped into a generally untouched market - people who think that their competency in things technological extends into being savvy in things like trading. Like an inward focused halo effect. It came wrapped in the veil of encryption keys and hype, and technical people lapped it up.
I've got a lot of friends and coworkers that latched on
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The people who lose with credit cards at least get some goods and services out of the deal. Factor in interest and you overpaid for the stuff you bought but you still had stuff .
You can also file bankruptcy on credit card debt if you get in completely over your head.
Credit cards suck but they're still better than crypto, lol
Still true then... (Score:2)
For as long as financial regulators turn a blind eye to obvious financial fraud, idiots who think they know better will get fleeced. In some cases, people do need protecting from themselves. You know, like that Florida guy who tried to "hamster-wheel" himself to death in the Atlantic ocean until the coat guard caught him. If people put their life-savings into a scam, they become a burden to their families, friends, & the rest of society.
MAGA (Score:2)
End this rotten system (Score:1)