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The Almighty Buck

Famed Financial Analyst's Final Forecast? 'The Dollar is Finished' as World Reserve Currency (nytimes.com) 176

An anonymous reader shared this report from the The New York Times: Over his 54 years as a financial analyst, Richard X. Bove perfected the art of grabbing attention... American Banker once called him "the country's most quotable bank analyst." Last week, a few hours after completing a spot on Bloomberg television, the 83-year-old announced his retirement. He took that weekend off — and then jumped right back in. In an interview with The New York Times, Mr. Bove (pronounced "boe-VAY"), who goes by Dick, shared a dire outlook on the U.S. economy and his former profession.

"The dollar is finished as the world's reserve currency," Mr. Bove said matter-of-factly, perched in an armchair outside his home office just north of Tampa, from which he predicted that China will overtake the U.S. economy. No other analysts will say the same because they are, as he put it, "monks praying to money," unwilling to speak out on the mainstream financial system that employs them...

As he spoke, a technician was trying to restore his home internet after his final employer, the boutique brokerage Odeon Capital, pulled the plug on his last day...

He sees the offshoring of American manufacturing as the ultimate threat to the financial sector and the dollar, because "the people making the goods elsewhere are getting greater and greater control of the means of production and therefore greater and greater control of the world economy and therefore greater and greater control of money."

The article notes that Bove was once called "The Loneliest Analyst."

"One way that's still true is that he endorses cryptocurrency — an area that few other financial analysts will touch — which he sees as a natural beneficiary of the decline of the dollar."
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Famed Financial Analyst's Final Forecast? 'The Dollar is Finished' as World Reserve Currency

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  • He's right (Score:3, Insightful)

    by HBI ( 10338492 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @10:08PM (#64193466)

    He's not explaining the mechanism, but the conclusion is correct.

    What's been going on the past few years is more or less that prediction coming to pass. Weaponizing international finance (e.g. sanctions) was going to result in this conclusion ultimately, but it's happening faster than one might have predicted 15 years ago.

    • OK, I'll bite. How?

      • by HBI ( 10338492 )

        Team BRICS not trading in dollars, basically. The accession of new countries is part of that arrangement. There are other reasons and issues, but owning infinitely inflating dollars is looked on less favorably now than in the past. That's the very point of the organization.

        • Re:He's right (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @10:51PM (#64193530) Homepage

          owning infinitely inflating dollars is looked on less favorably now than in the past

          US inflation rate spiked in 2022, yes, but it has since come back down to a manageable 3.4%. That's lower than the average for the world (4.9%).

          https://www.euromonitor.com/ar... [euromonitor.com]

          By contrast, BRIC nations averaged around 5% in 2023. https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com], China's rate appears low, but economists do not believe China's reporting.

          • by jhoegl ( 638955 )
            Cool, inflation is a stupid mechanism to allow, and it isnt a measurement of growth, its a measurement of how the minimum wage is slave labor when it doesnt keep pace with changes in the value of the dollar. its literally held back to keep people paycheck to paycheck, FAR different than when it was first implemented.

            $30 an hour would be proper minimum wage, but we cant have that much of an increase, as it will cause worse inflation.

            $1 items are $3 now... but minimum wage is still 7.25 in a lot of plac
            • Re:He's right (Score:5, Informative)

              by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @11:34PM (#64193600)

              but minimum wage is still 7.25 in a lot of places.

              Since 1980 the share of workers who only make the federal minimum wage has fallen from 15% to 1.5%.

              https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]

              • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

                by jhoegl ( 638955 )
                I dont know how that disproves the point of minimum wadge not keeping up with inflation, nor does it include people making 7.26 an hour.

                Is this just a feelgood thing you present to people who dont care?
                • Mmm...about that...

                  When minimum wage started in 1938, it was 25 cents per hour. In today's dollars, that's $5.32. today's minimum wage is higher than that. Your counter argument, of course, will come from cherry picking a particular time period and making that your official goal post.

                  Nevertheless, it has well more than kept up with inflation.

                  NB: You guys keep saying we should move to the Nordic model. Well, in the Nordic model, there is no minimum wage at all. They instead rely on collective bargaining agre

              • Sureo, If you keep it low enough, eventually nobody will want to work for that amount of money.

            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 )

              Oh wow! So this is why China's currency will become the world reserve currency? Sorry, I'm having trouble following your logic.

              As for minimum wage, only 1.4% of Americans actually make minimum wage. https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]. Basically only teenagers starting their very first job, make minimum wage, and even at that most start higher.

              Inflation has nothing to do with minimum wage, or any wage. Inflation is measured as how much money is required to buy a representative "basket of goods." https://www.b [bls.gov]

              • Re:He's right (Score:4, Informative)

                by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Sunday January 28, 2024 @12:32AM (#64193678)

                Inflation has nothing to do with minimum wage, or any wage. Inflation is measured as how much money is required to buy a representative "basket of goods."

                The problem is that the "basket of goods" you refer to has been repeatedly revised in order to make inflation look less bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] . You may regard this guy as a "YouTube influencer", but I'd be very interested to see your rebuttal of the points he makes.

                From what I can see, CPI has been gamed by the powers that be to the point where it's more than a little scammy. It seems that definitions of inflation are a set of moveable goalposts, with the moving being done to benefit the moneyed class and to con the average citizen.

                • That's a conspiracy theory. There's no evidence to suggest CPI is being manipulated.
            • by OYAHHH ( 322809 )

              The minimum wage is not $7.25, anywhere.

        • Re:He's right (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Berkyjay ( 1225604 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @10:52PM (#64193534)

          That doesn't really explain anything though. BRICS is just a collection of bad actor states who are really only looking out for themselves and only have banded together in a common cause of avoiding economic repercussions for their actions. I still don't see how this leads to the US Dollar being dethroned as the world reserve currency. Honestly it sounds to me like you just have a bias against US monetary policy and this is just wishful thinking than actual prognostication. So if you have an actual theory as to how they will accomplish this, I'd love to hear it. But implying the end of the dollar by simply saying BRICS isn't really gonna sway anyone.

          • by dryeo ( 100693 )

            They're trading in other currencies then the US dollar, even buying oil in different currencies and between them, they are too big for America to go to war to stop their trade.
            Every barrel of oil traded internationally in a currency other then the US$ weakens it, maybe not by much but it will add up.

            • I think you all are reaching on how much of an impact this actually has. I have yet to see a compelling argument as to why this is at all a threat to the dollar hegemony.

              • by dryeo ( 100693 )

                Part of the dollar hegemony is trade, the less that is done in US$, the worse for the hegemony. The saving grace currently is that there isn't a strong currency waiting in the wings to take over. If that changes...

                • Yeah, there is no currency that could possibly replace it. Yet people still want to act like the dollar is in danger somehow. Of course if another country arose as a dominant and stable power in the world it would challenge the dollar, that just makes sense. But that world isn't even on the horizon considering how China is way to insular and self-serving to ever play the role the US plays in the global market.

            • Re:He's right (Score:5, Informative)

              by StikyPad ( 445176 ) on Sunday January 28, 2024 @03:21AM (#64193832) Homepage

              Of course they're trading in currencies other than the dollar, because they're evading, or trying to evade, sanctions, not because anyone wants Yen. The Yen fell over 15% against the dollar in 2023, so if you made that "investment," you lost big. You just lost *much less* big on your otherwise-impossible oil and gas sales (Russia and Iran), and you saved a lot on those purchases (China and India, mostly).

              Yes, things can change long-term, but increased Yen holdings by central banks is more of a "keep an eye on this," signal than a "sky is falling" scenario. I don't have a better crystal ball than anyone else, but I expect a regression closer to pre-Ukraine War norms when things stabilize. Either that or the whole thing will go tits up and currency will be moot.

              • by dryeo ( 100693 )

                I don't know if Brazil is evading sanctions. Anyways, to me it seems it is only the lack of a contender that is keeping the US$ on top. That might change or maybe not.

            • The problems os the one russia is currenlty having. russia has billions of indian rybi(?) Stuck in India and no way yo get them out. Unless India buys a lot of expensive russian planes that Russia cant afford to produce russsia cant get their money back

              This has led to russia slowing down oil shipments to india.

              Brics is a decent xonept that fails to guedd what happens when there is a trade imbalance, and what happens if china has a major ressesion.

              Brics will collapse overnight

              • China is borderline recession now and possibly already there depending on how badly they've lied to the world in their financial reports.

                Either way, their long term prospects are looking bad. See gdp, stock prices, demographics bubble burst, water shortage, economic malfeasance, you name it. No way to run a serious country.

                This guy saying China is going to over take the US economy and crypto will replace USD is just nuts. I assume he isn't a total idiot and is just getting paid by someone to say these si

          • by sxpert ( 139117 )

            "Bad Actor States" is only what the US pretend they are, dissing your competition is always a good way of attempting a sway at it... doesn't always works and you eventually find yourself in the "schoolyard bully" category, which the US is firmly entrenched in since the end of WW2

            • You can be subjugated by the US, or subjugated by Russia. If your country isn't one of those two, those are your options. So, what 's it going to be?

              • The US doesn't subjugate anyone into any system. That's just absurdly untrue. For that matter neither does Russia (at least economically) nor China. Countries us the US dollar for international trade for a reason and it's not because the US forces anyone to. It's because it's a stable currency backed by the largest economy in the world with the largest military in the world.

        • Re:He's right (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Bahbus ( 1180627 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @11:39PM (#64193610) Homepage

          No one gives two shits about what BRICS does, and Bove is apparently senile at this point. He's been wrong just as many times as he's been right when making predictions. He just never turned down a media request and always painted the numbers in a more entertaining way than any other analyst, but he wasn't some infallible master analyst.

        • Re:He's right (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Whateverthisis ( 7004192 ) on Sunday January 28, 2024 @02:12PM (#64194756)
          You're the kind of analyst that makes predictions by ignoring the factors that affect your predictions negatively.

          Reserve currencies are not about economics. They're about politics. And when you factor in politics, then the BRICS looks like a gaggle of loser goats bleating about how much it sucks that the US is so predominant.

          But BRICS? Let's count the members. Brazil, Russia, India, China are the core "members" (quotations because BRICS is not a formal membership, it's just some Goldman Sachs guy describing what he thought would be the emerging opportunities back in 2001 [goldmansachs.com]). Later they added South Africa, Ethiopia, Egypt, and the UAE.

          First of all, none of these countries are paragons of economic prosperity. India is doing well but has massive inequality issues to deal with. Brazil is schizophrenic, vacillating between rapid growth and massive slumps, but the bottom line is Brazil is highly productive in the wrong side of the planet; 50% of it's economic activity is centered in Sao Paolo alone; it's wealth is too concentrated to provide meaningful value. China has of course done well but has major problems economically with it's massive debt load and is entirely beholden to exporting; it's consumer market cannot consume it's manufacturing market at all, plus they rely on massive energy and agriculture imports to keep their economy going. Notably also too much of China's economic "growth" is in infrastructure investment, and the economic data is showing that they massively overbuilt this. There are only so many roads, bridges and ports you can build before those assets produce no value, and the estimate is they built homes in China for 3B but only have 1.4B, and they're now demolishing apartments because they overbuilt. It's not real "economic" activity if you build an apartment complex one year and then demolish it the next. Russia of course was driven almost entirely via oil and gas extraction, but they unfortunately cannot manage their own pipelines and relied on foreigners to run their equipment as their education system broke down in the early 90's and now no one is skilled enough to maintain it. Not to mention the Ukraine war is draining them of resources and young productive men. South Africa, like Brazil, is moderately productive but still struggling economically with the legacy of apartheid and massive inequality, and also is on the wrong side of the planet and the wrong continent. Egypt is a basket case. Ethiopia is moderately productive, doing well by African standards, but also politically unstable. The UAE is looking for places to park money.

          But here's the thing: which currency becomes the reserve to replace the USD? Again it's a political issue, not an economics one. How about the Yen? Given China's highly unreliable financial system, none of these countries would agree to that. The ruble? It's deflated due to warmongering; no one trusts Putin anymore. The rupee? India has no friends, just partners. Not to mention India and China are always on the verge of war with each other with only the Himalayas keeping them from going at it, so cooperating on currency is a long, long ways off. Brazil? Not with their instability. A basket of currencies, or combined currency like the Euro? Which authoritarian government are you going to give control of that to? You really think Brazil or Russia or South Africa would hand over any of their fiscal policy to be run by Beijing? Do you really thing Beijing would agree to any control system that doesn't put China in total control of the policy? Authoritarian governments have no friends, only leverage. These countries will never agree to anything.

          Egypt? They're a military dictatorship that receives over $1B USD in military aid from the US. Unless one of those countries can guarantee Egyptian military aid when they eventually lose it by signing up to a non USD currency, Egypt won't ever do anything. Ethiopia? UAE?

        • Except they 100% are. Have you ever been to Brazil? Dollars spend unexchanged in Rio, São Paulo, and most other major cities. Though you generally pay a premium if you pay in dollars vs reals.
      • by mkwan ( 2589113 )
        Because of sanctions, it's very difficult to hold US dollars for Iranians, Russians, North Koreans ... and the list keeps growing.
        Although in practice they often switch to assets pegged to the US dollar, such as Hong Kong Dollars, UAE Dirhams, and stablecoins.
        In the long run the US dollar will probably be one of a handful of reserve currencies, rather than the only one.
    • What's been going on the past few years is more or less that prediction coming to pass

      What exactly has been going on the past few years?

    • He might be, if China were doing better. What's more-probable is that most fiat currencies worldwide will weaken simultaneously, and it'll be a race to see which one can depreciate in value more quickly.

    • I think what he want's to say is that, once China's economy overtakes US economy, Chinese currency will have enough traction in the global currency markets to become an alternative to the green back. Today US is able to "export it's debt", because USD is the de-facto currency for all trade globally. Euro could have been a viable alternative, and many predicted during the 2008 crisis that the world will shift towards Euro. But the EU break-up episode in the immediate aftermath proved otherwise.

      But China itse

  • China, really? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @10:12PM (#64193474) Homepage

    China's economy isn't exactly flourishing these days. https://www.newsweek.com/china... [newsweek.com] China's currency may catch on with BRIC nations, but probably not Western ones, any time soon. China is gaining power, but a lot of that power has been built on pretense. It's going to take a lot to unseat the US dollar as the world's reserve currency.

    • Re:China, really? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by vlad30 ( 44644 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @10:23PM (#64193496)
      Additionally I think the west is waking up and changing by bringing manufacturing back and realising that relying on China for manufacturing and Russia for Oil and Gas was a mistake they are rapidly trying to correct
    • Also, doesn't China still peg the Yuan?

    • Re:China, really? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Bahbus ( 1180627 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @11:08PM (#64193568) Homepage

      Not to mention China's birth rate is continuing to plummet and there is suspicion that they may be inflating reports of their population and birth rates, so they may be even lower than reported. On top of that, about 70% of Chinese household assets are real-estate with at least 65 million homes being unoccupied and not likely to be occupied anytime soon. That is a lot of a household's wealth in one basket. If China doesn't slow down on this new construction and the birth rate continues to decline, their entire economy will collapse and bankrupt pretty much every citizen. My guess is they've got maybe 10 years to "fix" at least one of those problems, and if they don't it will only take another 5-10 years for the collapse to happen. Manufacturers have already started looking for alternatives, and a couple I've read about have already moved out of China to places like Vietnam and India.

      • by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

        Oh, and at least two of the biggest Chinese developers, Sumac and Evergarde, filed for bankruptcy in the US because those two are massively in the red. For Evergarde, in 2021, they were negative more than 12x their best positive year ever, causing their equity to immediately flip to being underwater. I believe another 5 have defaulted billions of dollars of foreign debt, much of it to the US.

    • A counter view.

      "What Would It Take for the Yuan to Dethrone the Dollar?
      China would have to float the yuan.
      End capital controls
      Respect property rights
      Have a bond market big enough (China has virtually no gov’t bond market)
      Inspire global trust
      Be willing to have trade deficits
      Stop export mercantilism
      Have a currency market big enough

      from
      https://mishtalk.com/economics... [mishtalk.com]

      I don't necessarily agree with all of that, but it's a good case. Is there another alternative? Everyone wants to sell, not buy.

    • by taustin ( 171655 )

      Plus, he endorses cryptoscams. Hard to take him seriously for that reason alone.

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      China's economy isn't exactly flourishing these days. https://www.newsweek.com/china [newsweek.com]... China's currency may catch on with BRIC nations, but probably not Western ones, any time soon. China is gaining power, but a lot of that power has been built on pretense. It's going to take a lot to unseat the US dollar as the world's reserve currency.

      The world will not allow China to be a reserve currency. At least the bankers won't, which is what matters.

      Why?

      China has currency controls. You can only exchange so much cu

  • by UpnAtom ( 551727 ) on Saturday January 27, 2024 @11:36PM (#64193604)

    Note the US economy is rocketing, as is the stock market. It's more at risk of overheating again than slow growth.

    Anyone who talks about the dollar being finished right now is just in La La Land. Now, I used to trade commodities and, as a chartist, it's the most superstitious pastime. You have these 'magical' techniques that can predict the supposedly unpredictable. It makes you much more open-minded to nonsense and biased wrt your own country's economy. Your predictions become political ie BS.

    Even if the dollar was doing badly, which it's not (it's been one of the strongest currencies out of over a hundred in the world), it still takes a much more reliable currency to take its place.
    Who TF trusts China not to lie about their economy and even print money?

    Thanks to Brexit, the UK is kinda fecked which means the Pound is no longer a reserve currency. This makes people turn to the dollar even more.

    Dove points to the offshoring of American manufacturing. Well, the 50 years of that don't seem to have made much difference.

    • by sxpert ( 139117 )

      correction. the stock market has been rocketing. The US economy, as in, the economic outlook for most of the US population is pretty dire at this point.

  • Predictions are hard, especially about the future

  • by klipclop ( 6724090 ) on Sunday January 28, 2024 @12:50AM (#64193692)
    Gold bugs spew this nonsense then turn around and try to sell you over priced precious metals products. Then if you try to sell for precious dollars you hate so much, they rip you off again. In the end the anti dollar gold bugs think China and the third world will make them rich because those populations buy gold... Or something....
  • He's full of shit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cryptimus ( 243846 ) on Sunday January 28, 2024 @01:55AM (#64193770) Homepage

    There's simply no other currency in the world which nations will prefer as a medium of exchange.

    Reserve currency requires a powerful navy in order to enforce trade controls. The US is the only country with a bluewater navy with range.

    BRICS is largely irrelevant. They're not interested in using each other's currency since that would convey advantage to whichever country owns the currency. They simply don't trust each other that much and nor do they trade with each other. They simply all trade with China.

    The Yuan is so shit, even the Chinese don't want it. The ruble is pretty much insolvent.

    International trade is largely irrelevant to the US. The largest market of the US is the US. Internal demand is greater than external demand. Ergo, the currency is largely immune to the effects of trade wars and other shenanigans.

    The US dollar isn't going anywhere and anyone contending otherwise is geopolitically illiterate.

  • Were lost to automation not to outsourcing. The problem we have is wealth inequality not where shit's made. It's to the point where it's a national security risk. When things get this bad and you have this many people who can't afford even a basic apartment let alone buying a house they're going to start looking for solutions and if they don't start getting them they're going to find themselves a dictator like they always do. And dictators tend to be violent and incompetent. They're good at keeping themselv
    • We should have UBI, free education, free health care, free housing, free food, free clothing, free transport, free internet, free phone, free entertainment and no one will own anything and they'll like it.

      Let the robots do everything. We don't even need money.

      • As there's no such thing as 'free'. All those things need to be paid for somehow.
      • by rcb1974 ( 654474 )
        LOL. Nothing is free except maybe air you breath. Who designs, manufactures, and builds the robots that produce all the stuff you mentioned? Answer: humans, with the help of more robots. Key ingredient: Humans. Labor saving devices have been around for thousands of years. People need to learn to code. Seriously Then we will all have goods more abundantly and there will be fewer poor people. The only difference between now and 20+ years ago is that there are a lot more poor people now because: 1) T
  • "The dollar is still trusted worldwide and more stable. He endorses cryptocurrency.....lolol. Still too many issues with it be safe as to what was first touted. As he spoke, a technician was trying to restore his home internet after his final employer, the boutique brokerage Odeon Capital, pulled the plug on his last day... Did he NOT see that coming ?????

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