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Music Media

Component DVD/MP3 Player for $170 190

Posted by CmdrTaco from the thats-pretty-crazy dept.
JohnDonagher among many other sent this in. I still haven't had a chance to get to Circuit City to confirm this, but apparently Apex Digital is selling a component DVD/MP3/Karaoke player for $170. The model number is AD-600A, and you have to ask for it because its not being kept on the shelves. The player will play any MP3s on an ISO formatted CD, and you can use the standard CD controls, although apparently you can't scan around within tracks. MP3 CDs aren't bad. 600 megs is getting a lot closer to that 'I don't need to insert physical media' line that I'm itching for.
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Component DVD/MP3 Player for $170 More

Component DVD/MP3 Player for $170

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  • MP3 and karaoke? Oh yeah. Why the big hush? Once consumers find out they'll want it. I'm sure the record industry will try to fight it.
  • What I'd like to see is one that will play my CD's, my MP3's AND my DVD's...
  • Now if only we had Circuit City up here.... :( Just gonna have to use the one I'm bulding istead :)

  • Re:Nice, but... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Did you read the annoucement?!?!?! that's what this does!

  • Ars Forum Discussion (Score:5)

    by jpeters ( 24309 ) on Friday January 14, 2000 @08:10AM (#1372134)
    There's an Ars Technica Forum discussion about these puppies here [arstechnica.com].

    Some people have been able to find them, others haven't. Some have problems, others don't, etc. etc.

  • No Joliet? Doesn't that mean no long file names? Boo.
  • Go over there [arstechnica.com] and scroll down on the first page a little. Some of the guys have gotten their hands on this little puppy and had good things to say about it.

  • I have One (Score:4)

    by jcarl ( 37836 ) on Friday January 14, 2000 @08:10AM (#1372137)
    I bought one a few days ago. It reads all of the discs I have burned (with Easy CD Pro 95) for archiving my mp3s. I was impressed that I didn't have to re-burn a special cd for it. The on-screen interface is a little dis-appointing, as it only displays the first 8 characters of the name of a dir or file, but if you have one album per directory, its pretty easy to naviagate. Quality seems very good to me. I have played a bunch of dvds and they all look good.
  • you know they will, they fought the rio, they fought mp3 in general ever since it showed up. i hope that this time someone at the riaa realizes that we dont like them round these parts...

  • Additional Info (Score:3)

    by RedBrick ( 20505 ) on Friday January 14, 2000 @08:11AM (#1372139)
    There's a web page (not the Manufacturer)http://www.nerd-out.com/apex/ [nerd-out.com] and a review of sorts at http://www.geek.com/hwswrev /conel/apex600a/apex600a.htm [geek.com]

    The links are from an Ars Technica [arstechnica.com] blurb

  • Select Home Audio Department, search for AD-600A:
    Your Search for AD-600A returned 0 items.

    I wonder what all the hush-hush is over...fear of getting sued by RIAA?

    Eric
  • Luckily there is a cached copy at Google. Doesn't say anything about playing MP3s, though.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:st13.yahoo. com/shoppingatnet/apdigdvdplay.html


  • If anyone reading this article hasn't already, check out some of the posts about this on the "Open Forum" at http://www.arstechnica.com [arstechnica.com]. Some of the more interesting comments on the Apex player mentioned an inability to do low bitrates (less than 32kbps), an 8-character track name limitation on the unit's display, and weird problems with audio sync on certain DVDs.

    Still, the overall consensus was that the unit was a bargain despite these limitations. Of course, I recommend you read and decide for yourself before you throw your money at Best Buy employees. :-)
  • Fry's sells a mp3/dvd player made by SAMPO.
    I've never heard about before and couldn't find any info on the web.

    Anybody tried this out?
  • What'd be _really_ cool is if the psx2 could play mp3 cd's.
  • I think they should have checked the info a little more clearly. According to Yahoo Shopper [google.com], that model is just a plan DVD player, and costs $279. Maybe someone modified a player. Donno.. just my .02

    pugfantus -- #linuxlounge EfNet -- http://members.dencity.com/pugfantus
    "I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones." -- John Cage

  • Lik-Sang has even a cooler device! (Score:3)

    by arnoroefs2000 ( 122990 ) on Friday January 14, 2000 @08:17AM (#1372146) Homepage

    Check it out here [lik-sang.com].
    It plays DVD,VCD3.0,VCD2,DVCD,MP3 all the standard stuff, even copied DVD's work on it. And for the Europeans under us (like me :-) it's not bounded by the DVD region settings.

    Cheers,
    Arno
  • Joliet is just an ISO extension, and it only exists because microsoft didnt want to use what was already out there, rockridge. I dont see any advantages to using joliet, but i have noticed it doesnt like characters like : and ? in filenames.

  • Not the only player! (Score:5)

    by zeiche ( 81782 ) on Friday January 14, 2000 @08:22AM (#1372148)
    Frys in Southern California has been selling DVD players that can play mp3s for some time now. In November they had a sale on a model from RAITE [raite.com.tw] for $150. That model was particularly interesting because you could include lyrics and pictures to be displayed while the song is playing! And they are proudly displayed on the sales floor - not hidden in the back.
  • What I'd like to see is one that will play my CD's, my MP3's AND my DVD's...

    So which of these formats does the Apex AD-600A NOT play?
  • What'd be _really_ cool is if the psx2 could play mp3 cd's.

    There will be an mp3 player out for the PSX2 pretty quickly. Essentially you'll burn a CD with boot info, an mp3 player and a "browser" for your playlist stuff with a disk full of mp3's. It won't be Sony's, but it'll be out there.

    There was quite a bit of effort put into something like this for the standard PSX, but the processor isn't powerful enough to handle the decompression. There are a couple of add-on's that you can plug into the expansion port that'll let you do this, tho. Search for "psx" and "mp3 player" to find more info.
  • I saw a DVD player at Fry's while doing my Christmas shopping with a big "Plays MP3" sticker on the front. Since there are already enough computers around here which are mp3 enabled, it wasn't a selling point, though. I got a Sony instead. ;)

  • From the reviews I've read, it does _read_ the long filenames, but it won't display them past the eighth character, showing something along the lines of LONGFILN1 as opposed to LONGFILENAME.
  • I have seen DVD players at Fry's that claimed to be capable of playing VCDs. Would I be asking too much for a single component that would play: DVD, VCD, AUDIO CD and MP3 CD? If there is such a unit available (or soon to be, PSX2???) I'd jump on it ASAP.
  • If you're stuck somewhere w/o Circuit City (or international), it appears that you can also get these through Damark. Catalog number is B-20811-744733, and they're priced at $179.99. As of 1/13/00 they were in stock...

    For Canadians, you can check out www.futureshop.ca and search on Apex. They're more expensive there, even considering the exchange rate.

    --Alowishus
  • Try the empeg for the car have seen it and it kicks butt
  • Oh... I thought you were referring to a first post.

    My bad. :-)

    ---
    Tempfiles fugit.
  • It isn't hush-hush, it's just a brand-new piece of equipment. Give them a couple of weeks. They haven't put them out on the shelves yet in a lot of stores because they just haven't had time yet.

    Staying on the cutting edge is a lot easier online than it is in retail stores, but CC seems to have the brick and mortar stores as a higher priority than their website. Can't say I blame them.
  • I have a Raite 715, which plays MP3, VCD, SVCD, DVD, and CD. I bought it at egghead.com for under $150. They have another model that does Karaoke, too. One of the best things about this player is that you can upgrade the firmware by CD--just download, burn, and insert!

    The problems with this player: Doesn't have random play for MP3s or CDs; the drive mechanism is relatively noisy.

    Firmware issues: Is picky about filenames for MP3 files, and has trouble with VBR and files from certain encoders. I'm waiting for them to email me the latest firmware so I can see if that helps.

    Other features: secret codes from the remote to disable region coding and macrovision.

    Features I would like to see: Photo CD support. (Well, it will display an image associated with any given MP3 file, so you could use it as a slide show that way.)

  • briiiiing me the SAMPO

  • To correct myself, that would be LONGFIN1 in proper 8 character format, with the N replacing the ~ most of us are accustomed to.
  • It does.
    It plays Mp3's & DVD's, CD are assumed. DVD drives absolutely can play a music CD.

    Cool, eh?

  • just what the doc ordered (Score:3)

    by xeno ( 2667 ) on Friday January 14, 2000 @08:47AM (#1372164)
    This is just what the doc ordered: simple to use, efficient, and makes good use of existing technology. Didn't D'music have a portable cd-based mp3 player in the works? Or was it Pine Technology? A cd has enough capacity that I won't complain about swapping disks, and (this is important) -- I can use the same disks when I take them on the road with my laptop. Very nice.

    The portability of the media notwithstanding, I still would like an mp3 network appliance -- a simple system with:
    • a decent processor
    • an os in flash for upgradability (with some careful consideration of security)
    • a local drive for cacheing
    • network connectivity (dhcp capable, since a lot of dsl and cable bridge/routers provide this)
    • http, ftp, and maybe nfs protocol support
    • a stupidly simple browsing mechanism (lcd touch screen?) that would allow you to pull files or playlists
    • subtle styling so that it doesn't look out of place on top of a tuner
    Hook up the cat 5 right alongside the RCA plugs, enter a couple of starting points (small keypad?), and browse for music. Now THAT would be a component mp3 system.

    J
  • I'm looking for a portable unit (discman sized)
    that will play either regular CDs or mp3s from an
    ISO CD-R. Portable audio, format independent.
  • I have one of these. I purchased it from futureshop.ca over X-mas. It was also available with their doorcrasher sale on boxing day.

    Interesting!

    I will have to try and play my MP3s when I get home. Cause if this is the case, then it is pretty sweet.

  • Long filenames don't much matter if they aren't going to be displayed anywhere... Although that would mean I would have to reburn all my MP3 CDs in ISO format... -tfix

  • Re:SAMPO dvd/mp3 player (Score:3)

    by cowmix ( 10566 ) <mmarchNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday January 14, 2000 @08:55AM (#1372170) Homepage
    I have had the SAMPO for over a month now and it is my favorite customer electronic gear I have. Here is what is great about it:

    1. It plays MP3s great. Unfortunately it's menuing for MP3s uses 8.3 naming. Also, it will only play MP3s encoded in 144kbits or higher.
    2. It plays VCDs off both CDRs and CDRWs. The only thing that plays VCDs better is the Konka, but that player has other problems.
    3. It has *NO* problems with complex interactive menus. I have had the Bug's Life Deluxe Edition crash other DVD player but this one handles that disc (and others) just great.
    4. The SAMPO has a "hidden" menu that allows you to disable CSS and Macrovision. This has a legitimate use too. You can not daisy chain your VCR between your DVD player and TV if Macrovision is activated. Also, this allows you to tape your DVDs on your VCR.

    If you have any questions about it, please email me.
  • i think i'll always like to insert physical media once in awhile...
  • I have seen DVD players at Fry's that claimed to be capable of playing VCDs. Would I be asking too much for a single component that would play: DVD, VCD, AUDIO CD and MP3 CD? If there is such a unit available (or soon to be, PSX2???) I'd jump on it ASAP.


    The Apex does this. It also handles CD-RW media as well, which is a sweet feature - get tired of yr MP3 party mix? Reuse the media!


    It is a bargain, definitely.


    -Isaac

  • Raite/Hoyo (also called other things in other countries) plays DVD, VCD, SVCD, audio CD, MP3 cd.

    Some claim the quality is crap, some claim they're great.

    I'll keep my high end Sony DVD player, even though it doesn't play SVCD and mp3 cd.

  • Geeks and nerds, move away from the keyboard before reading, lest you short-circuit your keyboard with drool. Behold! An MP3 player from Compaq, that holds nearly 5 gigs of MP3s!

    http://www.pjbox.com/product.htm [pjbox.com]

    --

  • That player sounds great. I asked them if the player implemented Macrovision on the composite outputs. If it doesn't, it's the perfect player!
  • I think it's part of the DVD spec that all DVD players must support CDDA (audio CDs).

  • I wonder when we'll start seeing box sets all on one ISO CD buyable from any music store.

    I'm still waiting for the car based MP3 players to come down in price

  • Just Bought One...Ask for this (Score:4)

    by StevenYelton ( 137756 ) on Friday January 14, 2000 @09:25AM (#1372184)
    I just visited my local Circuit City.
    Go to the video section and ask them to look up the following:
    Vendor: APX
    Model: AD600A
    To their amazement, this little beauty will pop up. My local store had 4 (3 now).

    The unit looks fairly clean on the front, and sparse on the back. The remote looks like my cd-changer's. The manual is nothing special, but looks readable.

    Steven Yelton
  • After reading the thread, I jetted out to Circuit City on my lunch hour to try and track down the player.

    After teaching the CC employee how to enter stock code into his terminal, I discovered that Apex DVD player is listed as:

    APX AD600A

    My local Circuit City didn't have any in stock, but they had over 400 had the warehouse, some scheduled for delivery within a day or two.

    Retail price was $169.99.
  • After reading the thread, I jetted out to Circuit City on my lunch hour to try and track down the player. After teaching the CC employee how to enter stock codes into his terminal, I discovered that Apex DVD player is listed as:

    APX AD600A

    My local Circuit City didn't have any in stock, but they had over 400 units in the warehouse, some scheduled for delivery within a day or two.

    Retail price was $169.99.
  • The Price is $149 in many Circuit City Stores. Some as low as $139.

    It's often not on display, you have to ask them to look it up on the computer.

    They cannot order from other stores, but can have them hold it for you or order from the central warehouse.

  • And what's odd about that? You opened it.. and now they should shoulder the cost of you wanting to return the product because you don't like it?

    IANAL, but nobody *has* to take returns at all, unless they sold the product under false pretenses, ie: "Sure it'll play mp3" but then it doesn't... then they would have to give you a full refund, as it was a fraudulent transaction.

    So.. always be VERY CLEAR about your intentions for the device before buying it.
  • Err, are you looking for a minidisc?
    Search for MD and MP3 from your search engine of
    choice, there are some excellent pages out there
    that help the idiots transfer mp3s to MD
    (As if it wasn't self explainatory)

  • Weird 8 char filenames (Score:3)

    by jbridges ( 70118 ) on Friday January 14, 2000 @09:50AM (#1372190)
    Just picked up two (one for a friend), they had one on Display, two in the back.
    $149 each, normal price, no special sale or anything.

    Display says nothing about MP3, box has a small line of text saying it supports MPEG3 Audio.

    Salesman said it's a new item, had them a couple weeks.

    It really does play MP3 CD's, even with complex directory structures and long filenames.

    The 8 character limit is far worse than you suspect. First for any duplicates (in the first 8 chars, which is darn likely) it immediately chops off 2 characters to put a 'N' and '1' to '9' to handle the duplicate names. If it hits more than 9 duplicates it chops off another 4 characters (leaving you with 2 unique chars), putting a 4 digit hex checksum of some sort, then a 'N' '1' (assume that's there on the 1 in 65536 chance of a duplicate hex checksum).

    So it's really quite hard to figure out what the tracks are!

    Even when playing a track there is no extra info, no more filename, no track number, no MP3 tags. Only an elapsed time for that track (which defaults to off, you have to use the display button to get it). You have to read the track number from the front display.

    As for VCD, it will actually play a PAL format VCD on a NTSC TV! So all those pirate movies from Hong Kong on VCD will now play on your TV. Even plays slightly messed up VCDs (like a couple I burned with Adaptec CD Creator 4.0 which would never play on my Phillips play fine on the APEX).

    Still at $149, it's a STEAL!! I am so happy to be able to play my MP3 CDs directly without a computer, if I was richer I'd buy one for everyone in my family.

    The drive is a standard DVD drive with IDE interface and 4 pin power connector.

    It's based on the ESS 4308A chipset (which I assume is a newer version of the 3308 since the default Adult password is 3308).

    Here is a press release from ESS announcing APEX using their chipset:

    http://www.esstech.com/Newsroom/1999/9-23-99.htm l


  • I couldn't stop laughing when a buddy of mine showed me his new 17 inch monitor. It was a sampo.

    "I think sampo is a strapless evening gown."

  • I submitted this story back when it first appeared on Ars. Glad somebody else was able to submit it at the "right" time.
    By the way, I couldn't find one at my local Circuit City. I even had the guy check in the computer system and no good there either. Oh well.

    ----------------

    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
  • First off, this is about 2 months stale.

    Frys has had the DVD/mp3 players for a while now under the brand name RAITE. They cost about $147 on sale. I picked one up and returned it withing 48 hours.

    Why?

    The mp3 player part of it has the following limitations.
    • MP3s made with VBR...wont play right
    • MP3s made with certian new encoders, such as Xings new one, wont play right
    • Any MP3s encoded at less than 100 or so kbs and over 196 kbs wont play right
    • The Display of file names is 8 chars only and even at that is piss poor
    • Directory navigation was a pain
    • No PLaylist Support
    • No Native Shuffle/Random support

    None of my Old Time Radio Show, Spoken Word or 78rpm era jazz mp3 played with out major "bird sounds" or even flat out rejections. Many of the newer MP3s i have also would not play right.

    Unless you live by around these limitations this unit will be pewp on your shoes.

    This was not only NOT ready for consumer use, it was a pain in the butchecks for someone who knew what they were doing. the onlyworth of this thing is that it is a decent DVD and VCD player.

    I was thinking of frankenstining it but it really wasnt worth it. My Toshiba Satalite serves me much better, and i can play Homeworld on it.

    Summation--interesting first round consumer item...will be as valuable as a pet rock in a slate quary in about 6 months.
  • Behold the Nomad Jukebox, which can hold 6GB of music and is about the size of a discman.

    See it here [nomadworld.com]

    --
  • The Shinco is also reviewed in the DEC-99 edition
    of Home Cinema Choice (from the UK).

    It seems that most of its insides are made by
    Sony. They give urls, though I haven't checked
    it out myself - http://www.shinco.com and
    http://209.207.158.106/site/map.htm
  • Nice, but expensive: "80 playback hours (1200 songs) ... The PJB 100 offers exceptional music capacity vs cost less than $10 per playback hour..."

    That's $800us. Not bad, considering you get an IBM microdrive and a 10hr lithium-ion battery, but what's the target audience? It's a little big to be a portable (15cm x 2.6cm X 8cm / 6" x 1.25" x 3.2", close to an old Beta tape), especially compared to the latest audiotape-sized shirt-pocket wonders. And it's not designed to be a home stereo component (although I like the screen). If the connections were all on the back rather than the side, it might find its home on my office desk, or on top of my tuner. But then there's that pesky USB connector, and the necessity to connect to a Windows host to manage content. Hmm.

    It's all in the industrial design, man.
  • I used to check out www.mp3.com for reviews on hardware until I realized that all they do is rehash press releases from companies that for the most part, don't even have products released. Going to the home pages of the companies themselves is of even less use; there's virtually no useful technical information available.

    I'd like to see a standard set of tests any CD-based MP3 player should follow. Call it a benchmark - a torture test for any device purporting to call itself a CD-based MP3 player. At a very first draft, I'd like to see the following checklist in any review of MP3 hardware, and my thoughts on what should be required behavior in any such device, and what behavior would be "nice to have" but not essential.

    • CBR support I: Playback of files with constant bit rates of 96/44, 128/44, 160/44, 192/44, 256/44, 320/44. (Required: All. You might convince me that 320/44 is a "preferred", but embedded CPUs are fast enough now that if you can do 256, you should be able to do 320.)
    • CBR support II: Playback of files with low constant bit rates. Some old-time radio material or spoken-word material is encoded at 24, 32, or 64. Because it's mono, this is good; there's no real loss of quality. (Preferred: All. May be a requirement for some users.)
    • VBR support: Does it play back Xing/VBR at all the Xing/VBR quality settings? If not, what playbacks are supported? (Required: All.)
    • Media support: CD-R? CD-RW? Both? (Required: Both)
    • File display: Filenames? ID3 tag contents? Both? (Required: ID3-tag-first, then if no ID3 tag, the filename)
    • Filesystem: ISO-9660? Joliet? That next-generation-universal-filesystem? All of the above? (Required: ISO-9660 and Joliet. Only ISO-9660 should be required if and only if ID3 tag support makes the display of 8.3-munged Joliet filenames unnecessary.)
    • File layout: Files in current directory? Files in recursive subdirectories? (Required: All. Directory-searching is computationally trivial.)
    • Non-MP3 files: If you put a README.TXT file or a WINAMP.M3U playlist on your disc, is the player smart enough to not try to play it as an MP3? (Required: *.mp3 get played. All else skipped. Preferred: Support for at least one playlisting file format.)
    For your typical 64M handheld, none of this matters. But if you've already got 10-15 CD-Rs full of burned MP3s, you care about whether they'll play on your new device. You care about the encodes you worked on from restoring all your old vinyl stuff will also play. You care about whether or not your practice of using subdirectories (or not!) on your CD-Rs as you burn them will screw up your player. Damn it all, you care about whether the device handles your data.

    If mp3.com and the other reviewers of MP3 playback devices won't do it, and the manufacturers of MP3 playback devices won't disclose their specs, then we should.

    What else belongs on the checklist that any MP3-CDR player should be expected to do before we plunk down our money to be first on the block to own one? What other files, directory layouts, and filesystems belong in Tackhead's Box Of Benchmark CD-Rs when he goes to Fry's or CC to try out the latest toy?

    (Aside: As someone who doesn't use Joliet, and who renames his MP3s to 8.3 before burning to ISO-9660 CD-R, this AD-600A sounds pretty good if the firmware in the boxes they're selling supports VBR!)

  • It would be nice to have it say the track names as it plays, ie: Joliet format. That is the only downfall really, get that up and going and you got yourself a winner.
  • Give it a month or so and you can have one in your car for a reasonable price. http://www.mambox.com/
  • I doubt if it reads the long filenames and then truncates them itself - Joliet and Rockridge are *extensions* to ISO9660, so I bet it's just using the filenames as they show up on the ISO9660 filesystem. No magic.
  • Try www.mambox.com and you may see what your looking for.
  • I got one of these yesterday.
    (funny that John did not get one, but I did....)

    Here is my URL with some good photos and some basic information in the unit.

    http://users.ntplx.net/~andrew/apexdigi tal/ [ntplx.net]

    It's a toy....I'll keey my eye out for better 2nd generation products.

  • a haiku (Score:1)

    by mcc ( 14761 )
    mp3 hardware
    is no longer vaporware..
    Must buy one for car!!

    Let us all rejoice.
    C. C. has redeemed themselves
    for divx
  • I haven't ever needed to make a bootable CD. That said, i've never burnt anything but ISO format... One disk, readable by Linux, Windows, and the Macintosh with no extra software... And it keeps long names as well (up to the limits of MacOS 8.6, at least)
  • And I must say I'm very impressed. I bought this player specifically to play MP3s and a region 2 Suspiria DVD I have. As far as Mp3 playing goes, I'm extremely happy with it. Yes, it doesn't like Variable Bit Rate Mp3s, but using MusicMatch to convert the Mp3s from VBR to CBR takes around 30 seconds per song, or you can just re-rip off the CD again. (I found the most unobtrusive way to do this is to select all the songs you intend to burn -they are sitting in a directory anyways- and have MusicMatch go through all the songs and change their bit rates. It's automatic and fairly fast. Once I figured out the player liked 128kbps CBR, I've had 100% success playing my burned CDs. It sits here at my desk, currently not connected to anything but speakers, but I did hook it up to the TV here long enough to switch it to regionless mode and try out a few DVDs. I tried Suspiria (region 2), Devil's Advocate, Clerks, and Blade Runner, and they all played and looked fine to me. I didn't try any of the DVDs that are rumored to not work with this player (Matrix), as we have a perfectly good Pioneer and I intend to use it as a standalone Mp3 player only. MP3 stuff: What it does have - repeat 1, repeat all, skip, mute. What it does not have - shuffle, rewind, ff (you can move to the beginnings of songs or the next song but not to an actual point in the song), the ability to read more than 24 directories (AFAIK, I had to dump mine in r00t since it isn't hooked up to a TV) So, if you can afford to blow 260 bucks for a standalone Mp3 player with the occasional VCD/SVCD/DVD playback, I'd say go for it. For me, it does what it does. Your mileage may vary. Questions about the player? email me at stephenc@3drealms.com Sorry for the incoherent message, I'm trying to squeeze this in during a level compile.
  • check out www.empeg.com I'm on the waiting list to get one of these. they look sweet.
  • that's what i thought at first, but i DID call up my local circuit city, asked if they had that specific model (AD-600A) and they said they did have them for $169.99
    so you're probably looking at the wrong model number
  • I believe so. I don't own one (I'm needing a new hard drive first), but I've played Video CDs (Ahh, Macross: Do you remember Love) on other DVD players. The thing was top of the line, but I'd think that any DVD player would play VCD. There are differences, but they're still Discs that play Mpeg files.
  • I wonder if it would be able to play mp3s on a writeable DVD disk?
  • Try 3134, 3135, 3136, 3137 or 3138. These are stores in Minnesota. Which is the corporate head quarters for Best Buy and Audio King. It's a very cut throat market.
  • afaik, that isn't the case. I have 2 friends who work at circuit city and, of course, I buy most of my electronics there :) I bought my DVD player and was told to return it a week later and buy it again because I was about 5 days early for the movie giveaway deal (buy a DVD player and get 5 free DVDs or something like that). He may be referring to an older policy or something, but in my experience, circuit city has excellent return policies.

    Also - can't blame them for embracing new technologies, you can only praise them for it. divx was questionable and by backing it they only helped it by making it available - they seem to be doing the same thing with this new mp3/dvd device. Divx was a pretty bad idea imho (and I think a lot of people agree, because it failed) - but they gave it a chance.

    Go circuit city!
  • Yeah, I wasn't referring to a first post. I was referinng to a device which could play MP3s off of a standard CD-ROM. I was first exposed to the file format about 2 years ago I believe and I thought, "Hey! This would be awesome to compress my collection down" After all, I don't like leaving my CDs around the office where they could be liberated from me (school+cubicle+somewhat high traffic area.) Not to mention the fact that CDs can get scratched fairly easily when you are shuffling them around as much as I do. Who wants to tote 40 CDs to work when they could just take 4.
  • Why worry about filenames... Any self-respecting person that creates MP3's puts info in the ID3 tag fields anyway, and that info is usually better than the limited filename text anyway!
  • MP3shopping.com seems to have it on pre=order http://www.mp3shopping.com/english/d'music.htm
  • Look for the APX-AD600A
  • A friend of mine once tried to exchange a palmtop with a bad ram chip in it to CompUSA. They didn't have any in stock, so he tried to return it. They told him he would have to pay a restocking fee.

    But you are right - no commercial establishment is bound by law to accept returns on all product in the U.S.A. - many do not. Lottery tickets are generally not returnable, for instance. Lots of places don't accept software returns, either.

    The thing is, many consumers prefer to do business with the BEST possible commercial establishment in terms of customer service, rather than simply going on the "Do they violate any federal laws?" metric. The fact that nothing is stopping CC from charging such a fee is not a valid reason to insist that people shop there when they could shop somewhere that charges no such fees.

    In fact, you might say that "what is odd about that" is that many of their competitors do not generally charge such fees. Weird, eh?
  • >>The drive is a standard DVD drive with IDE interface and 4 pin power connector. Does this mean you could theoretically take it out of the unit and use it internally in a PC?
  • MCM Electronics sells an inexpensive macrovision eliminator.

    Call them for a free paper catalog at 1 800 543 4330

    They have a lot of cool stuff, and some of the special mini sales fliers have great prices on limited quantity closeout stuff.

  • Would have been nice if I had put in the web site..www.mcmelectronics.com [mcmelectronics.com]
  • Hey, what about a discman that can read cds with mp3s? I think read about such an device on slashdot a few months ago... but haven't really heard anything about it since. Does anyone know anything about it?
  • Anyone know how much memory these things have? Cause it would be really nice if it came with a few MB for anti-skip.
  • Anti Skip memory. With just a couple of MB it could hold the entire file. Atleast a few KB of anti skip would almost be required. A few MB prefered
  • It doesn't play DVDs, but does play CD's, and it's supposedly prepared for all the issues the Apex apparently isn't - supports LFNs, M3U's, VBR, subdirectories, index and search, plus 45-sec skip buffer.

    So what if they're held up in production. Maybe that really does mean they're making sure they make a better product.
  • I've heard some comments in the Ars Technica forum about some DVD's losing their sync between video and audio? Is that still happening, has anyone here noticed, or was that just maybe some problems in the initial release corrected now?

    Thanks
  • The point is that existing mp3 cd's aren't going to work in the Apex player.
  • I went out an bought this unit Tuesday night at Circuit City. I'm very satisfied with the unit, but I have noticed that it puts out some nasty interference upon boot up - I have a panasonic VCR sitting directly under it, and there's notiable picture distortion on the VCR's signal when the Apex boots. However, upon switching over to the Apex's feed, the distortion went away. This weekend I plan to do some scientific research into the cause of the interference (it is mentioned in the manual), and I'll post any results here.

    Has anyone else experienced this?

    Other than that, I'm extremely satisfied with the unit. It has some very nice audio output, including digital coax (which can go straight into, say, a DAT deck, or a sound card. heh heh).
  • I simply don't understand why geeks who would normally turn up their noses at second-class products get so pumped about MP3.

    You'd spend three hundred bucks on a videocard to get an extra 5fps and higher-res textures; you'd spend a couple hundred bucks on a 3D soundcard to get that rush from hearing a bullet ricochet beside your head; you want PC133 memory and an overclocked CPU -- and all because it's the best.

    But you settle for MP3. It doesn't sound as good as CD. It doesn't sound as good as Sony MiniDisc. It doesn't match Yamaha's sound compression format, and it doesn't even match *Microsoft's* sound format!

    I just don't get it. Instead of demanding a better product, everyone goes apeshit over a terrible lossy audio compression scheme that does all sorts of weird artifacting to the sound.

    And then is happy to buy a Rio instead of a minidisc player.

    Give your heads a shake!
  • "getting a lot closer to that 'I don't need to insert physical media' line that I'm itching for. "

    i've just bought a 200CD changer and random play it every day (it is already full) and i'm very happy.
    not much too: 200$. and i've seen a 200 DVD/CD player this afternoon. a bit more expensive though :(
    i'll never change any CD in that changer ... until i buy another one for the remaining and to come CDs ;)
  • Just got mine from Circuit City, and on both the
    Matrix and Run Lola Run the player plays the movies correctly (these are the only two movies we have to test with) but the brightness goes up and down in cycles of about 3 seconds. It is REALLY annoying and is absolutely unacceptable. Is anyone else having this problem?
  • Also if you read a little further you find both rebuffed...it does play lower bitrate (good for old live boots, but not much else). I havent been able to reproduce the audio synch probelm...even with Austin Powers 2 (the one that supposedly had the problem) If the problem is there its either so small I cant notice or its not a consistent problem. It does have the 8.3 limit but hey I can live with that..
  • Yeah, but it costs twice as much as the Apex unit.

    If someone carries the Apex locally here in Utah at the same kinds of prices I've been hearing about, I'll buy two, and give mom a nice mother's day present. (she'll even appriciate the geek value)

  • It's convenient, genious. Minidisc isn't solid state, CD isn't solid state, and yes, you can get a MiniDisc to skip - 40sec. skip protection doesn't do much good when you run cross country for an hour. Both those are power hogs, while Rio batteries last forever. Rios are smaller.
    The quality is not worse; it's all a function of bitrate. At 128kbps some wierd noises occur, but I can't tell 190kbps from a CD, period. If you were cursed with more discerning ears, sorry.
    Oh yeah, and don't even open the Pandora's box that is formats. I could rant on for hours about closed v. open formats, but I assume thousands will anyways, so I'll save myself the time.

    Do you work for RIAA?

    --
  • I'd love one to go in my car. Unfortunately, Empeg is a bit outta the ol' price range. It seems like a total waste to have hard drive in there when CDRs sell for $1. Alas, anyone know where I can pick up a car MP3 player with a CD drive?

    --
  • >>Does this mean you could theoretically take it out of the unit and use it internally in a PC?

    The drive in mine is labelled "DSS" made in Korea.

    I don't see why not, but since it's likely a 1X, maybe 2X DVD IDE drive, why bother? You could buy a generic DVD drive on the street for $40 to $50.

    It might be interesting to do the reverse. Put a new high-speed 10X DVD drive in there and see if the 4x VCD playback/scan becomes smooth (right now it's very jerky, like it can't read the data quickly enough).

  • >> Why worry about filenames... Any self-respecting person that creates MP3's puts info in the ID3 tag fields anyway

    The APEX doesn't display ID3 tag data (and no other DVD/MP3 players do either as far as I know).

    ID3 data is nice when it's there, but not all MP3s have the data (or sadly the correct data).

    One problem with ID3 data is that it requires seeking to the end of the file, not exactly an instant operation... Particularly when you'd like near seemless playback from track to track.

    I think all the current purchasers would be thrilled if they just showed 30 characters of the Joliet name instead of putting two filenames on a line with lots of dead space around them.


  • It's convenient, genious. Minidisc isn't solid state, CD isn't solid state, and yes, you can get a MiniDisc to skip - 40sec. skip protection doesn't do much good when you run cross country for an hour.

    There are ways to prevent MD players from skipping while jogging or running. While I haven't tried any of them myself, there is a list of ways to prevent skipping at http://www.minidisc.org/md_jogging.html [minidisc.org] .

    Both those are power hogs, while Rio batteries last forever.

    Sony recently released an MD portable (the MZ-E95) which can (supposedly) run for 77 hours with an external AA battery. I don't know how long a Rio lasts, but for most purposes, 77 hours of music is much more than enough.

    Rios are smaller.

    The latest MD portable player/recorders are barely larger than a MD (in length and width). Rios aren't much smaller.

    The quality is not worse; it's all a function of bitrate. At 128kbps some wierd noises occur, but I can't tell 190kbps from a CD, period. If you were cursed with more discerning ears, sorry.

    With crappy headphones or speakers, MP3s sound the same as MDs or CDs. But with high-quality headphones/speakers, the difference is clear (at least to most people I know).
  • Ooh, that sounds nice.

    My current wild dream is, when I've got a house to put them in (student ATM) is to wire up a network with a couple of old, cheap PCs on it. Each one could act as an MP3 (or whatever format seems sensible at the time) player for that room, but if I manage to play about well enough with databases then the ideal would be to have transparently distributed storage. That is, each machine having a local HDD or two full of music but the lot capable of playing the music from each other (hence a fast network) without the user needing to know which machine it was on. Never know, if I splash out on 100M switches and slightly faster machines I might even be able to do this with video!

    The biggest problem TBH is an OS. You need something cheap, VERY fast to start up - who'd tolerate a stereo that took 2 mins to warm up? - and no problems being switched off as and when. Not that either would be done that often being networked, but you get the idea. DOS would be quite usable if only it supported bigger volumes.

    The other amusing dream would be for the car. Stick a network cable running out to the garage (all hypothetical here, of course...). Now, the car's got a normal stereo, but it's also got a parallel cradle for a WinCE PDA. Mostly to support it, but probably handling power, network connection and the sound out to the normal stereo. Battery life isn't an issue as it's running off the car electrics, weight not a problem as it's not in my pocket :) Plus it's got a nice, fast processor and a colour touchscreen for the interface.

    Now, connect one of them to an IBM Microdrive. 340MB tops right now, but that's with a tiny data density so wait a year or so (inside which I can't afford this anyway!) and gig or so drives become perfectly feasible. So, you pump your gig of music onto this little drive which buffers the relevant songs into the huge memory as and when needed, and they're all accessible via a nice colour touchscreen. I@mm pretty sure I've seen dictation software out there too, in case you want to do anything useful with it and not just use it as a fancy stereo :)

    Anyone else want one now?

    Greg
  • Bought one last night (Saturday) here in the LA area for $149, at the Circuit City in Lakewood (#0408). I just had them look it up and sell me one on the spot. The clerk didn't even bat an eye at me buying one sight unseen.

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