Starwars Episode 1 DVD? 173
|GopheR| writes "Mr. George changed his mind and is planning to release episode 1 on DVD before 2005? If The digital bits rumormill is right, then he probably did change his mind. " Note that they don't really have a date set, and Lucas hasn't said he *won't* release DVDs... just that it'll be years before they do. To bad. I own two copies of the original trilogy on VHS (Original and Special edition) but I've sworn off video. I woulda bought the DVD the day it came out, but I won't spend a penny on VHS.
Poor Quality (Score:1)
I remembered how disapointed I was not more then 5 seconds into the movie. The duplication was crap, the quality stunk. I used to be in the dup business, I know that these were cheap, worn out machines that the dup work was done on.
Seems a shame that Lucas is having to pinch pennies. Can't wait to see the set for EP2 - his basement perhaps?
Re:Episode 1 DVD - Director's cut mini-rant (Score:1)
Those are only supposed to happen when the studio won't let the director do exactly what he/she wants with the movie. Lucas had COMPLETE artistic freedom with Episode I, thanks to the revenues from the "Special Edition" re-releases, so a director's cut different from the PM we've already seen is just another way for him to get his hands in our respective pockets....
Unless he figures out a way to get rid of Jar-Jar.
:)
Re:Cash flow (Score:1)
Actually, I think he's trying to sell it to everybody 3 or 4 times. The original Star Wars has been available in at least 4 different VHS releases, and he's said that he's planning yet another re-release (on DVD) because he's still not happy with the way the original 3 films look (read: he's still not happy with the cash he's milked from them). The only way to show him that we think this sucks is to not buy the VHS, but I read the other day the the Ep 1 video has made more money in less time ($100 million in 2 days, IIRC) than the theatrical release did. So scratch that idea.
The Digital Bits does have info on an imported Laserdisc version that is supposed to be excellent (if you still have your LD player), and there's also a VCD available, though it's obviously not going to look that great.
Re:Since when is DVD evil .. isn't EP1 mostly digi (Score:1)
It isn't that because of DeCSS DVDs are evil, it is the responce the movie groups had to DeCSS that make DVDs evil. I am sort of surprised at all the slashdotters who are calling for EP1 to come on DVD. Guess the boycott is all good until something you want to watch comes out huh?
color me dissapointed.
*shrug* (Score:1)
Anyway, I'm sure that Mr. Lucas has plenty of reasons to wait on this. I'm patient
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Ski-U-Mah!
Stop the MPAA [opendvd.org]
Re:Since when is DVD evil .. isn't EP1 mostly digi (Score:1)
So why wouldn't you release EP 1 on a digital format?
Because the film sucked rocks?
Seriously, I find it odd that there seems (based on people I know personally, not reading /. comments) that there are a whole bunch of people who want to buy Episode I, even though they hated it. No wonder crap films keep tumbling out of Hollywood.
Re:I said it once, I'll say it again (Score:1)
I'm still swinging for an 'Episode 0.5', wherein we learn more about Maul and get to see some incredible lightsaber fighting.
Re:DVD: with or without? (Score:1)
DVDs use MPEG2. The _player_ then converts it into PAL or NTSC or whatever. Just 'cos a disc says NTSC or PAL on it, doesn't make it true.
Otherwise people couldn't reasonably import discs. Funny thing is, they do. Region 1 discs are pretty common all around the world.
Re:Lucas is a hypocrite (Score:1)
Of course, he can't *say* that - it would p*ss off way too many people. So he just puts all his titles on a DVD treadmill - it'll come out Real Soon Now, when he has a chance to Do It Right.
Just watch, if people ever get tired of the Do It Right excuse, he'll pull out DeCSS, and protecting his interests.
*YAWN* Who cares... (Score:1)
Re:Episode 1 DVD - Director's cut mini-rant (Score:1)
Re:Lucas is a hypocrite (Score:1)
The people who are willing to pay the extra money (the True Fans) will, and the marketroids know that.
The people who "just want to see it, you know, for the kids," aren't going to care. Heck, your average household doesn't even know what they're missing with pan and scan. And those people won't pay high prices.
This is why there are so many academic discounts (eg, software) -- its to sell more units at profit, not becuase the companies are compassionate.
--Jim
Re:Tell that to Lucas (Score:1)
If only that were true! Campbell mentions the movies in his books (which instantly lowered my respect for him), and I believe he and Lucas have appeared in tv specials together. What a bunch of shit!
The original movies hold up as somewhat decent campy sci-fi, but not much more. The newest one made me want to leave the theatre.
I believe that Lucas is controlled by an alien and his movies are a bizarre attempt to indoctrinate humans with his alien dogma. Did you see interviews with lucas before phantom menace was released? Tell me that giant growth around his neck could be anything but an alien.
Re:I Call it "Marketing Stratergy" (Score:1)
>I'll never be able to buy PM or any movie in
>that format. It's my little act of protest.
I think an even better way of protesting would be to not buy any VHS movies from Lucasart. Then you could even buy a DVD player and buy tons of other DVDs.
Re:DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:1)
I had hoped that a simple, omnidirectional antenna would be sufficient for HDTV. However, viewing tests in Baltimore (Sinclair) and Philadelphia (NBC) seem to show that an urban viewer with an indoor antenna is going to have severe problems with reception. Everything may work great with a 30' tower and an LPDA antenna, but that is impractical for many viewers who live in apartments or have restrictive covenants or zoning on outside antennas.
I live in an area that has poor over-the-air NTSC quality due to mediocre signal strength and strong multipath. The local cable system is rolling out "digital cable". They haven't said if they plan to carry HDTV from the local stations.
Re:DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:1)
I agree that a boycott will probably not do much good in getting the MPAA to change their policies. Someone should have looked at the DVD spec and the DMCA a few years back when there was only 10,000 players out there and pointed out the problems with it. That didn't happen, and now DVD is established as a must-have techie consumer item.
Still, we see people on Slashdot moaning "I can't legally watch the DVDs I paid for!!" -- and the only real answer for that is to stop buying the movies if it's a moral problem for you. People can get quite preachy about the whole thing, but the bottom line is that they are still giving their hard earned cash to the movie studios. Maybe an organized boycott would be pointless, but some people here should start personal boycotts just to avoid the hypocracy of the situation.
Right now the MPAA views the whole DVD/DMCA thing as a success. We've lost this battle. What people need to do is to get involved with the process and win the next battle. The engineering community needs to make sure that HDTV and HD-DVD formats are open. They need to propose recordable media formats that are open enough for data use, and not driven by the needs of hollywood. The political community needs to make sure the DMCA is not extended and is challenged in court when possible. We can't let the MPAA win the next battle.
I hate to sound like a pessimist, but right now the future looks pretty dark. They've already got encrypted data bouncing around *your* Personal Computer that you can't legally manipulate. The next format will a better scheme than CSS that won't be so easily broken. There are standards on the board for encrypted monitor connections, encrypted sound conections (notice how the iMac is missing a 10 cent headphone jack?), and so on.
Lots of people here promote alternatives like Linux because they want to maintain freedom in their personal computing. However, what Hollywood is trying to do is far worse than anything Microsoft has done with their closed and extended protocols. They want to turn your computer into their payola entertainment delivery device, their sealed, encrypted box. It time that the people of conscience start to realize this, and if they think it matters, at the very least stop supporting this thing with their dollars.
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Re:DVD Issues:HDTV is the next DeCSS hassle (Score:1)
Very similar to the whole DeCSS situation where a weak system was undermined by some teenager in Norway with a Pentium II and gcc. They won't be making the same mistakes next time...
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Re:How about the Original Original Star Wars (Score:1)
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Re:DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:1)
So, your widescreen DVDs will look OK on HDTV, but not as "_REAL_ good" as upcoming HD-DVDs.
(I have a bunch of widescreen laserdisc stuff, and to me the quality difference isn't really worth 'upgrading; to DVD. I'll have to wait and see what HDTV looks like -- word has it that the difference is immense. As for anamorphic being "enhanced", it's more like not dis-enhanced for 4:3 pan-n-scan. However, since video is such a big market, most movies seem to be shot nowdays with all of the action in the 4:3 box to make pan-n-scan easier.)
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Re:DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:1)
Everyone talks about freedom, but where are the companies' freedom.
Well, according to their bottom line, they're doing OK and I'm not too worried. Their current VHS market is huge and very profitable. And with no copy protection. Do they really need a whole set of encryption technologies to protect their profit base? No -- what they are really protecting is their distribution system. Digital media and the Internet and high bandwidth have logical conclusions, and they are not selling $20 or $100 DVDs to video stores and end users. They wanted "convergance", and they are getting it. Now they don't want to play by the rules -- the outcome of the personal computing revolution that the end user has control over the resources and data on their computer.
The whole point of CSS and other forms of encryption is to prevent unauthorized access to some content
Look, I have no problem with them if they want to sell a sealed box (like a component DVD player) and have it talk to my computer through known, documented interfaces (S-Video, 1394, whatever). What I dislike is that they want to turn my computer into that sealed box, simply because software is cheaper for them to produce than hardware. We've already got a situation where you can play a DVD on your computer, but the software won't let you take a screenshot. At what point does DIVX resurrect itself?
(As for my boss reading my e-mail, that's a silly example. The company owns the computer, the e-mail system, and my 'work product'. Hollywood owns the content on the DVD and that's it. They don't own the hardware, the player, the CPU, my time or anything else.)
I'm not trying to make this a crusade. Obviously, what you want to do with your computer is up to you, and I respect your well-stated opionion on the matter. I just think there's quite a bit of moral inconsistancy on Slashdot about DVDs (People buy them and watch them but don't like the terms of the deal.) DeCSS is only a band-aid here. Hopefully a more fair longterm solution will be realized.
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Re:Interesting argument brewing (Score:1)
Yet, for some reason, DVD owners feel the need to build "a collection". I know quite a few people that have bought several $20-30 DVDs of movies they had not seen, and in the end, really didn't like that much. Maybe it's just because the media won't degrade right away, but there's some other consumer instinct at work here. I mean, I can understand owning your favorite movies on whatever media, but buying something like "End of Days" just because you missed it in the theater seems kinda like flushing twenties down the toilet for fun.
As for VHS, first you say that you use it to dub DVDs, then you basically declare it an antique. Quite an inconsistancy.
One thing is true -- with the exception of the easily bypassed Macrovision system, VHS is an open format, and because of that will continue to live on. When the MPAA puts out "Recordable DVDs", you may go out and buy it because it's the latest and greatest, but you will probably never be able to rip rental DVDs with it. Back to square one and your antique VHS deck.
(A friend bought a low-end SVHS deck specifically for the purpose of dubbing rental DVDs and LDs. It's nearly the same quality of the original. And "open".)
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Boycott DVD. (Score:1)
That was Lucas's original story. The skeptics then said that Lucas simply wants to milk everyone for all they're worth.
I don't know what the real reason is, but I don't care because I'm actually glad that the DVD version isn't going to come out for a long time (whatever the reason may be). I am boycotting the DVD industry, until the DVD CCA is dismantled, all the pending CSS lawsuits are dropped, and an OSS DVD player is available. Not having Star Wars on DVD makes the boycott a lot easier.
Last year I was *that* close to purchasing my first DVD player. After some soul searching I decided against doing that. If Star Wars came out on DVD, it would probably be a much more difficult decision than it already is. I'm hoping that the entire CSS mess gets settled before I have to make some hard choices here.
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What's the incentive? (Score:1)
Re:Cash flow (Score:1)
Perhaps he just doesn't want to release the DVD until he's finished them?
Re:the fuss? (Score:1)
You swore of VHS? (Score:1)
Bought my LD from George (Score:1)
Yeah, I bought my LaserDisc SE set from George Lucas. It shipped direct from Skywalker Sound Ranch in Ca.
I asked him about the DVD release of Episodes 4,5,6 (PM wasn't out yet). He mumbled something about not being ready yet. But at that time he was taking heat in the press about the $1Billion in toy cash he was sitting on. So I suggested to him that he just go for it and release on DVD then I gave him the Phone #, Address, web page and personal reference to an Orfanage [mercyhome.org] in Chicago that could really use the $.
It was at this point he stopped talking to me. True Story.
Re:DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:1)
I could almost understand seeing this question here about this time last year (I say almost because even then I thought people who believed that DVD was going to be another minidisc or worse, digital compact cassette were just a little strange) DCC and even mini disc, which is now, 6 years later, beginning to make a market for itself as a recording only medium, nevere had anywhere near the market penetration that DVD has. Yes, the stories you have heard are true, DVD has beat VHS in first and second year market penetration. And, because there is currently no competeing format that can give better quality and convenience, I think DVD will be around for a VERY long time. Pay perview is cool, PPV on demand is even cooler, but I still would rather have those shelves of movies lining the wall that I can point to and say "... and there's my movie collection"
Cash flow (Score:1)
In other words,
Phantom Menace will be sold on DVD just as soon as the VHS sales taper off. The idea is to sell the movie to everybody twice.
hanzie.
Re:I Call it "Marketing Stratergy" (Score:1)
The most intelligent response to this posting thus far...
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Re:the fuss? (Score:1)
Fear, anger, hatred, these are all of the dark side. There are no exceptions, think only of justice, not revenge.
Boycott to Open the Standard? (Score:1)
Anyway, I thought the supposed boycott of MPAA things (and is there anybody actually actively boycotting anything? I don't go see MPAA movies, but that's because I just don't go to the movies. I haven't rented a movie in a looong time either. This is simply because I can't afford to go to the movies [me+girlfriend+popcorn+soda >= $25], not because of some high-and-mighty boycott mentality. I would be interested to hear from anybody who is actually boycotting on principle, otherwise I will assume that the "boycott this" people are just a gaggle of hypocrites) was due to the DeCSS lawsuits, not over making DVD an "open standard."
As a sidebar, I am actively boycotting Amazon. Which has worked to my advantage, because I've found that most of the places I've looked besides Amazon are much cheaper. Reel.com, CDNOW, fatbrain, textbooks.com, varsitybooks.com, etc.
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Re:Personal message from George Lucas (Score:1)
what's going to happen when HDTV shows up? (Score:1)
smells to me like everything you purchased on VHS...
and then purchased again on DVD...
you'll get to buy YET AGAIN on HD/DVD (or whatever.)
but the film industry is worried about DeCSS cutting into their profits. seems they've already managed to sell the same content twice, and will soon be working on a third.
Frankly - I'm quite happy! (Score:1)
DVD? LD? Got 'em both.... The same to me....
Why not just get the Laserdisc? (Score:1)
No compression artifacts, no region codes, no copy protection, no stupid non-skippable-FBI-warning, no annoying menus to navigate.... Just a great image!
I have the original trilogy on LD and boy does it look great with my Pioneer Elite CLD-99! I wanna get a Pioneer HLD-x9 or HLD-x0 and see what it looks like on those...
For those who don't know -- you can buy HDTV movies now... thanks to the HLD format!
Re:the fuss? (Score:1)
I disagree. Luke saved Anakin by reaching out to him. Darth was really a puppet of Palpatine using Anakin's body. Luke reached out to Anakin, got him to destroy Palpatine and thus killed Darth as well. It would be as if Hitler had been drugged by Goebbels and induced to command things that he would not have if he were of sound mind. In fact, I think there was a Star Trek TOS show that mimicked this exact idea.
A few facts (Score:1)
At 8 AM the 'Kevin and Bean' radio program on 106.7 KROQ (a local radio station here in sunny Burbank California) had a telephone chat with George Lucas and Melissa Joan Hart who are racing at the Toyota Grand Prix. After all the racing questions George was asked about EPISODE 2. He said that "the script was finished a couple of days ago" and that he would be leaving for Australia "in 8 weeks." Then he was asked about EPISODE 1 on DVD to which he replied "it's being worked on. The work on the supplemental stuff is taking longer. It will be coming at some point." This statement and his tone of voice suggests to me that we will see EPISODE 1 on DVD much earlier than 2006.
So, lets get one things straight: This is not a rumor. This DVD is real, and I agree with another post that this wait between releases was done to make money. He charged 40 bucks a pop for a widescreen VHS with a little piece of plastic they called "true frames from the flim!" This is also called a rip-off. Which is the reason I haven't bought it. However, to get back to the point, the DVD IS being made and it WILL come out. Maybe tomorrow, maybe 2006. But those who doubt are oblivious to whats out there, and haven't spent the time to find the facts.
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Obi
Re:Bullcrap (Score:1)
Re:Lucas is a hypocrite (Score:1)
While watching the "regular" VHS copy, I noticed a few silly little pans to have a close up on the face that is talking and it really detracts from the experience, I think so anyway.
Re:Cool, (Score:1)
Exactly ... (Score:2)
But "The Phantom Menace"? No. I don't think so. George Lucas can blame bad internet press all he wants, but "The Phantom Menace" just plain sucked. And if you are more than 10 years old, it sucked a lot. It's exactly the sort of film directors make when they've run out of original ideas but know they have a loyal fan base so they don't have to try very hard anyways and can concentrate solely on selling toys. The only reason I could see in buying it by itself is using Anakin and Jar-Jar "Meesa Gonna Sella Lotta Action Figures" Binx as suction cup dart targets on my TV screen.
If the next two films (assuming they bother making them) are back to the standards set by "Star Wars" and "Empire", I might include "The Phantom Menace" in my DVD collection just tohave the complete set. But the next two films will have to be abso-freaking-lutely amazing for me to tolerate "Phantom Menace" like I tolerate "Return of the Jedi". Given Lucas' recent track record, somehow I don't think they will be.
1) Lucas doesn't owe you anything for being a devoted fan.
2) He's got a known level of greediness.
This isn't entirely surprising. VHS tapes can be much more readily copied than DVDs can, so I seriously doubt that piracy is the issue.
There is also a third possibility, which I think is pretty likely -- the extra content being put together for the DVD will take quite some time to get together and polish, and maybe he's planningon doing something special with it, which will take extra time.
The Christmas special notwithstanding, Lucas' past releases have all been very well-polished, classy affairs. Maybe they're just taking the time to make sure that the DVD release will besomething very cool.
Umm, Cmdr Taco? (Score:2)
Other releases (Score:2)
Lucas actually said this (Score:2)
If we wait long enough... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
DVD: with or without? (Score:2)
But, I also hate DVD. Or rather, all the hassle with the MPAA/DeCSS etc etc. I hate region codes too. I could get my player fixed, of course.. but unless I do that there are tons of movies I can not view here in region 2. Not just the latest ones that WILL make it in time, also a lot of old classics that were only released for the North American market.
And forgive me for being so weak.. but so far the technical superiority of DVD seems to outweigh the other issues. I *am* getting more DVD's. Although more selective than what would-have-been in a more open market. Why must I buy my favourite Star Trek episodes on VHS? Why am I advertised to death with Episode 1 yet cannot buy the DVD?
DVD, can't live with or without you.
Re:DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:2)
(more conjecture)
If the movie industry (read: major studios) could absolutely and unequivocally control the distribution of their movies, then we'd probably be able to buy anything. Maybe they should grab some bandwidth in the "500 channel" future of television. They didn't mind VHS because the quality degrades when you copy it but DVD brings up real problems so, they throw in the CSS thing and, well, insult most of us.
This leads into the issue of boycotting. I really can't decide what to do here. I love DVD quality and enjoy watching movies, but I really don't like the idea of having to use liscensed players/software (although I do have a DVD decoder card in my system since it really helps) and I absolutely hate the idea that I can't take this disc around the world and watch it wherever I go. I know you can't do that with VHS, but you can at least convert it.
I haven't bought some DVDs in some time, as I've been wrestling with the issues. I do maintain we should be able to write free software, if we so desire, to play DVDs with or without a decoder card and that I shouldn't have to purchase my DVD collection again should I choose to move to Europe or wherever.
For the time being, I'm going to refrain from purchasing much of anything DVD related.
Woz
Re:Er, okay. (Score:2)
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Re:Episode 1 DVD - Director's cut mini-rant (Score:2)
I said it once, I'll say it again (Score:2)
Why does anyone even care?
For a movie that most
Re:DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:2)
The movie studios should be pushing DVD. It is much cheaper to manufacture a DVD disc than a VHS videotape. They may be trying to follow the example of the music industry with CDs by keeping the price of DVDs higher than that of VHS tapes.
Re:Interesting argument brewing (Score:2)
Re:Interesting argument brewing (Score:2)
But Das Boot is already subtitled on DVD, by default. You can't get it any other way. So if you buy any copy of it, it will be subtitled.
And why would you be strolling down to the local store to pick it up, anyway? You can get much better bargains and selection online at places like Express.com [express.com], not to mention Netflix [netflix.com]'s $20-a-month-unlimited-rentals by mail program (which I'd hop onto in a heartbeat if only I could afford right now).
Artistic Vision (Score:2)
George Lucas has a myth that he wants to tell in the way he sees fit, that is why he left the large studios after Star Wars. This artistic vision is the reason he does some things that seem out of whack, why he waited 15 years to start the prequels, why he wants to do something special for the DVD. I personally feel that the reason that TPM seemed quirky and chopped up in some ways, is that it will only seem complete when the other two prequels come out.
Some may say that this film should stand on it's own, but I want to see Lucas' vision. This is also the reason that I haven't gotten into much of the extended universe literature that has come out surrounding Star Wars.
I read the Salon article that a reader posted earlier, and I thought it had some valid points, but I believe the author missed some others.
Star Wars takes place in a world where democracy is collapsing and racist dictators are plotting with greedy corporations to carve out their own empires. Star Trek takes place in a world with a strong democratic government that, while having threats to it's stablility, are not in the same mortal peril as the Star Wars universe.
The reason that conflicts are waged in the Star Wars universe with active warring rebellions vs. the Star Trek one with civil discourse and so on is the setting. Let's face it, Star Trek devolves into kill 'em all every time the Borg show up. In Star Wars there isn't even the mystery of where the enemy comes from. The enemy is something that has existed in that universe for millenia.
As for the demigod status that the Star Wars universe confers upon it's heros, it is demigods that inspire. For me, I always saw the ascetic Jedi as something to live up to. To fight the good fight, but to do so with honor and to not allow fear and anger to cloud a morally just cause. Quite frankly I've never been inspired by Star Trek, yes I've always agreed with most resolutions to moral quandries put forth in the various stories, but the characters always seemed more distant to me than those in Star Wars.
I think it has more to do with the universe that these to fantasies are set in, with Star Wars being one where there is a complex story of governments, history, religion and culture that mirror much of what has happened on Earth. A world where farm boys and smugglers find their path in life that leads to a righteous struggle. Not only is it a righteous struggle, but they must carry out this struggle in a certain manner in order to maintain righteousness. Studying history, I see more parallels with Star Wars than Star Trek, and so that universe always felt more real, or personal. Of course, there are others who may feel the same way about Star Trek.
To me the question of Vader's redemption at the end of ROTJ is more about the belief that anyone can change, and be personally redeemed. Was justice served? Did Vader pay for his crimes? Of course not, but that is not what the story is about, it's about personal choices and struggles.
A question that the author of the Salon article forgot, was what is Hitler was captured, and then became a devout Christian, believing that Jesus had died for his sins. Even if Hitler paid for his crimes against humanity with his life, according to Christian beliefs, he would have gone to heaven.
I am eagerly awaiting the DVD, and the next two movies, which may be the only reason I break my boycott against the MPAA. I have faith in Lucas' artistic vision to present an interesting way to give us a morallity tale. I think that the Salon author goes for some of the easier shortcomings of the Star Wars story without exploring many of the explanations and perspectives that have evolved around the story.
I was rather intriuged by the explanation of how SciFi in general goes against much of the storytelling tradition in our world. I found it a very interesting discussion and I must say that I agree with the author on many of his points. I do however disagree with the insinuations that our age old tradition of creating heros to overcome our enemies no longer has value. I believe that these heros do much to show that one person can make a difference in the world and inspire people, especially children, to become more like those ideals.
In the end, I'd say it's all about perspective. Much like whether or not Obi-Wan and Yoda lied to Luke or merly offered a way of looking at the fall of Anakin. You can say that the Star Trek is a more mature universe and the the egalitarian views are more noble, and I might agree, but I think that Star Wars has always held the personal inspiration for me to attempt and forward those ideals.
I guess you could say, Star Wars for personal insperation and Star Trek for an ideal of what our society should strive for. But remember, it's all perspective.
So....
May the force be with you!, oh yea and, Live Long and Prosper!
Re:Er, okay. (Score:2)
Me? I'm just a-waiting for my Laserdisc of Phantom Menace to show up in the mail...
Pope
Hold on a sec... (Score:2)
Re:I Call It "Control" (Score:2)
Yeah, God forbid he wan't to keep people from stealing his work or anything like that.
Re:Lucas is a hypocrite (Score:2)
Well, if you buy the pan-and-scan version, aren't you essentially paying less for less of the movie?
Re:the fuss? (Score:2)
You people are so full of it (Score:2)
You all bitched when Episode 1 came out - everybody went on for hundreds and hundreds of comments about how much it sucks. And every time a story about the MPAA is posted, there are hundreds and hundreds of comments about how much they suck and how you're all boycotting them.
So why the fuck are you all bitching about how you can't get Episode 1 (a bad movie by most accounts) on DVD (an evil format by most accounts)??? You need to either stick to your convictions or stop bitching about things.
Re:Boycott DVD. (Score:2)
If you really want to make a difference, buy a player that you can disable the region controls on easily, supporting the makers to continue.
Then, buy all of your DVD's used or from auctions, so the MPAA does not directly get any of your money.
As for myself - I don't do any of the above (though I will probably get a region free player if I can get a five disc changer that plays MP3's), but I did donate money to the EFF last year and I plan to donate a bunch more this year.
If nothing else, donating money to the EFF is the best thing to do - in reality the MPAA is not going to miss your money, or indeed the purchases of the entire population of
An argument against the DVD boycott (Score:2)
Well, I'm here to play devil's advocate, to give you reasons why boycotting the DVD format is not in your best interests. I'm really interested to see the counter arguments to the ones I give, as I think it's an interesting discussion.
First the monetary angle - you not buying a DVD player or DVD's is hurting the MPAA.
Let's say that you get one million followers of the boycott going. Pretty impressive, surely that would stop the MPAA and make them reconsider the evil of there ways!
But wait - the estimated population [odci.gov] of the United States in July 1999 was 272,639,608. The estimated number of televisions [odci.gov] is 215 million. If even a quarter of the people with televisions buy a DVD player, what impact does the loss of a mere million people worth of revenue have?
Consider also how you are fighting them. By simply not buying a player or DVD's, you may think you are fighting them. But unless you are writing to the studios explaining that you are boycotting the system, you are really doing nothing except making them market a bit harder than they were before to your demograohic. That means you are helping a SALESPERSON make more money!!
But all that is just pointless jabbering unless I have some kind of soltution to replace the boycott (and even then no doubt some will still consider it pointless). As you might have guessed, I of course have such a plan.
I propose that to really make a difference, you see who is already in the fight and is making a difference. Though there may be other forces, the main ones I can think of are:
The EFF (providing legal help in many cases, including the deCSS case).
The people who make (essentially) regionless DVD players.
To support the EFF is easy - send them money. Lots of it. If you got that same hypothetical million people to donate $100 each to the EFF, don't you think that would help a lot more than simply not buying "It's a Bugs Life"?
In the second case, buying a DVD player where the region encoding is easy to defeat helps to make this a more desired feature in all players. This is already true in Euorpe where the DVD players in which they can play region 1 DVD's are selling like hotcakes. If you provide enough of a profit incentive then eventually some of the brand name DVD players will have to follow suit.
But more than buying one of these for yourself, explain to others around you why they should buy one as well. Let's face it, are you going to be able to convince more people they simply should not buy a DVD player at all, or that they should buy a really cheap one that can play DVD's from anywhere?
I will add one final argument. By not getting a DVD player now you are missing out on some DVD's that will not be around when the fight is won. Things like Disney movies that cycle into the market every few decades. Thing like the "Army Of Darkness Special Edition".
And in addition if you really don't want to give the MPAA money while still getting DVD's, buy them all from used CD stores.
Re:Lucas is a hypocrite (Score:2)
Re:If we wait long enough... (Score:2)
Maybe if we're really lucky he'll release it with that small boy too, although he was quite essential to the overall plot, if not the plot of the film.
Can you tell I didn't like it? The big lightsabre duel was well cool though.
Re:If we wait long enough... (Score:2)
damn...
Re:the fuss? (Score:2)
Is it not more that he renounced the evil that had controlled his life, thereby being forgiven of all sins.
Sounds like another Christian idea George Lucas has pinched...
Still I agree with the rest of the comments (or can't think of anything against them)
Re:Lucas is a hypocrite (Score:2)
Putting whether DVD is a good technology aside, it blows as a medium. But as far as a medium goes, it redefines "closed." To distribute a DVD movie, you must license the technology; to play a DVD movie, again you must license. Pay to play.
Compare this to the historically most successful medium, paper. No one owns the patent to make paper, and you don't have to pay license fees to read it. As a result, no one controls what can be put on paper.
As long as your movie distribution format is closed, you better get used to someone else telling what you can and cannot see on it.
That said, I doubt that Lucas isn't doing DVD to protest a closed medium. More likely, he is protesting that it isn't his closed medium.
Re:I said it once, I'll say it again (Score:2)
More seriously, the problem with capitalism and copyrighted "art"work is that there is no opportunity for another company to offer the same product and the theory of competition fails, allowing a monopoly. Ideally, someone else should be able to compete directly with Lucasfilm and release PM on DVD, because that is what the customers demand. However, given how copyrights work, we can only watch the Star Trek with the damned whale as a substitute. Or the Matrix. Whatever.
Nothing to see here; move along (Score:2)
Actually, perhaps "tore to shreds" is a bit too strong. Really, we just ignored Brin and alternately bitched and creamed our pants about the great event of visual masturbation that was/is StarWars TPM. Or at least that was my gist from the audience.
Re:the fuss? (Score:2)
But even still, it is not the same as saying that Adolf Hitler "saved his son". Vader did more than save his son; he killed the emperor. He turned his back on the dark side and sacrificed his empire out of love for his son. He "redeemed" himself... at least in the eyes of the movie. So yeah, if Adolf Hitler saved his son AND destroyed the Third Reich, sacrificing his life to do so... I think that would be a redeeming quality.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Same here: no VHS (Score:2)
Re:Er, okay. (Score:2)
BTW I paid $120 after shipping for it.
--Mark
Lucas is a hypocrite (Score:2)
You'd expect a so-called technology supporter would promote something like DVD. What's the matter, it wasn't developped by ILM or LucasArts? Why is it that even Star Wars IV: A New Hope is not available on DVD, and that Raiders of the Lost Ark is just coming out?
I'm amazed at how big a technological boat Lucas is missing here. This is mind-boggling, until you realize that Lucas has always been motivated by profit. No, Ep. 1 is not available on DVD, but please, buy this $30 VHS package with lots of crap inside so we make a little more money off of you.
Anybody who has a DVD player should boycott the VHS release and wait. Don't justify this shameless money-grabbing scheme. I know it's probably too much to ask for a boycott of Star Wars (we're so spineless), but at least stick to your guns when it comes to buying it in video.
Re:Cash flow (Score:2)
Lucasfilm acts way too much like Disney for my tastes.
Personal message from George Lucas (Score:2)
>---------- Forwarded message -------
> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:02:26 -0500 (PDT)
> From: George Lucas <xxxx@thx.com>
> To: LocalYokel@Rednecks.com
> Subject: RE: TPM DVD
>
>Hello, Mr. Slackjaw!
>
> Thank you for a very well crafted flame urging me
> to release TPM on DVD. I have read your arguments,
> and followed the link to the "Slashdot" site hat you
> gave me, and have decided that I am being quite
> foolish about this business.
>
> We have been secretly working on a special DVD
> release of this movie, but from what I see on this
> website you sent me to, the cat is already out of
> the bag. The TPM DVD will be released shortly as
> Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace SE. We had
> intended to make the "s" stand for "Special", but it
> is clear that it should stand for "Slashdot". ILM
> has been working quite feverishly to add a subplot
> involving the capture of Queen Amidala in her quar-
> ters. As she is changing into the costume of her ser-
> vant, the captors will freeze her in a block of car-
> bonite. For all intents and purposes, Natalie
> Portman, naked and petrified.
>
> Thank you, and please be patient. The final touches
> will be made as soon as we complete our open source
> Beowulf cluster. Thank you.
--
Potpurri (Score:2)
If there's one thing about Lucas, if he says he's going to do something, he does, and he doesn't go back on it. Just as he said he's going to release it in 2005, he most likely will not release it anytime sooner. Even if he did release it early, do you think these guys would know about it?... I don't think so.
By the way, you've heard of redundant posts... this is a redundant story...
Star Wars: TPM NOT on DVD in 2000 [slashdot.org]
No Star Wars TPM on DVD [slashdot.org]
Rick McCallum Answers "Why No Star Wars DVD?" [slashdot.org]
I heard this rumor from Lucas himself (Score:2)
DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:2)
Question 1: I really like the idea of DVD but am afraid of buying a player and a movie collection only to find that the standard changes on me, or that the weird copy-protection and region codes scare people away and DVD evaporates like that digital audio cassette system from several years back. I don't want to have the 21st century equivalent of an 8-track collection. Do you think that this really will be what replaces VHS? Or should we all wait for these court cases to settle down? Do you think that consumers will be turned off by the fact that they don't have the freedoms that they have with CDs? These are things that churn around in my head when I think about taking the plunge into DVD.
Question 2: In response to the MPAA's charming behavior towards free software developers, people occasionally say that they are going to boycott DVD until the standard gets opened. What do y'all think about this? Is this something people are serious about, and do you think it will be productive? I ask because I'm willing to boycott if I know it is a part of a larger effort and if I think there is a chance it will be productive, but if it isn't going to do any good, then that's different.
If y'all have any opinions,it would be cool to hear them.
Take care,
Steve
========
Stephen C. VanDahm
Yes, and yes. (Score:2)
And as for the second question, that one's easy. Before I knew about the whole DeCSS thing, I was planning on buying a DVD-Rom drive, and some DVDs to watch with it.
I have no plans to do that now.
I can't speak for those who already have DVD players, but I personally am not getting anything DVD related until this ends - and ends in our favor.
I know of others, too - one friend of mine is carrying the boycott to everything MPAA related. She won't see movies, or rent videos, or even buy from a tie-in venture (like, for instance, the recent Pokemon: The first movie items at Burger King).
So, yes, there are at least two of us doing a boycott. Likely, there are more. And yes, support would be appreciated
Cool, (Score:2)
Re:what's going to happen when HDTV shows up? (Score:2)
Anamorphic DVDs are letterboxed movies where instead of adding black bars to the bottom and top to keep the aspect ratio, they just don't. Viewing such a DVD on a TV that can't squeeze the picture vertically (or on a DVD that can't do it) everything will be distorted, i.e, people will have "long faces".
What I'm trying to say is that anamorphic movies has just as many scanlines as 4:3 movies ... it's letterboxed movies that have _less_ ...
Anamorphic is better - but they don't have more horizontal resolution than a standard television can display
Re:Interesting argument brewing (Score:2)
This is a common misconception. DVDs and VHS are released at the same time, however.. VHS has two releases. The first VHS release is highly-overpriced and basically for rentals.. but you can buy them if you look hard enough, usually its around 100$ a tape. The 2nd VHS release is the general public release, those are usually 15$ or so.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
Re:Second That (Score:2)
Actually... (Score:2)
However, these videos are generally only sold by resellers so they are nearly impossible to come by for joe video buyer as the resellers usually only sell these in bulk. Yes - you can buy just about anything at any time...it's just a question of price. but WTF - maybe i'll pay that much when infinite jest is made into a movie
FluX
Since when is DVD evil .. isn't EP1 mostly digital (Score:2)
I know that with DeCSS that DVD's are evil now, but wait ... does this really mean that because of some computer software we have to watch a analog version of a digital movie?
I may not be the smartest man around, but I do know that you do loose something when you go from digital to analog ... so why wouls george do this?
I mean ... let's do it for jar jar here ...
Not fuss - discussion. (Score:2)
I get sick and tired of all the people who want to draw social, economic and moral conclusions from a damn movie.
And why, exactly, shouldn't we? The amazing success of this movie indicates something about us. The mere fact that people respond to the story says that we find it compelling -- I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing this plot with other widely known tales and placing them inside the context of the environments from which they were created. There is a truth that stories and tales we find interesting and personally entertaining reflect on us and who we are. In fact, today's mass-media culture in certain ways requires that we define ourselves to others, in part, through our consumption of books, music, clothes, food, or operating systems (ahem).
Maybe some of those Indie artsy-fartsy movies are trying to send a message, but most Holywood blockbusters are only trying to do one thing; make money.
Exactly. I'm not going to try and blame Lucas or "hollywood" or "the man" for things we like and enjoy - I just happen to think that the very fact we have hundereds of posts here discussing some rumor about a minor facet of the movie says something about us.
Maybe it means that we (meaning most people) have an inherent apathy or disregard for the common good and the average citizen, or maybe it means we're all too obsessive about this movie. Either way, it has to mean something.
Finally, I'd like to point out that I posted a response instead of moderating down, and I'd like to thank you for doing the same to the post you responded to. Oh, and no, I didn't spell check, and yes, I should have.
Re: the fuss? (Score:2)
Granted, this was a far cry from universal sufferage; but then, universal sufferage is a 20th century concept. It is not difficult to imagine an electoral monarchy evolving universal sufferage over time, once you have an understanding of how modern Democratic governments evolved.
"The axiom 'An honest man has nothing to fear from the police'
Re:DVD Issues: Stability? Opinions on a Boycott? (Score:2)
Q2: Boycotts that seek to turn the actions of a corporation around almost never achieve that goal. Intel giving in on the Pentium bug processor swap is the only one I can think of.
But that doesn't mean that fighting is fruitless. It's just far more likely that the angry protestors will start up their own camp. That's what happened with .ARC compression; the owner of .ARC got into a fuss over PKARC and Phil Katz just went and made PKZIP. Everybody switched, and nobody uses .ARC anymore. Hollywood became the center of the movie industry because moviemakers were pissed at Edison's monopolistic control of movies in New York. Everyone packed up their bags and left for California and look at things now.
And then there's a story of a Finnish programmer who was unimpressed with the choice of operating systems available to him. (I know there was no ill will in this case, but it's a great example of what can happen when a person believes they can do something)
Just saying no to them and doing nothing else would have a minimal effect at best, but doing something like supporting an alternative or in this case, contributing to the EFF could go a long way. If you have enough faith in your Congressman/Member of Parliament/whatever political representative to do something about it, then write to them. We're all in this together.
You're forgetting... (Score:2)
There are many people that feel the same. Is this because this is a freedom we assume we have, or a freedom that we are losing in today's "high tech world" like many other freedoms.
If you are going to protest something, do it for the right reasons.
I read "Don't buy DVDs!"
I read "Don't buy PM1 VHS!"
Decide, then go further and block the companies that support the very thing you oppose.
See DeCSS Movie Boycott Helper [torsion.org]
Question: Wasn't there a boycott of PIII's because of a Hardware ID in the chip of some sort?
What if a company only made software that would work on an Athlon chip?
If I were protesting Intel, I would be happy for this. Maybe the people unhappy about no PM1 DVD release are not protesting the DVD industry?
Keystone Light! Ahhhhhhh
cheers
Er, okay. (Score:3)
Let's examine the facts of the case:
You'd think that we geeks would be used to that whole "don't trust everything you read online" thing by now, eh?----
I Call it "Marketing Stratergy" (Score:3)
We, the stupid consumers, pay for anything "new", no matter if it is useless or not. We teached the lesson!
Now, in a very smart move, Lucas delays the DVD relase of his picture in order to make the consumer, specially the Star Wars Fan, to pay/rent the movie now (maybe several times), and then relase the "New Thing", in this case, DVD and get profit again, years from now...
I would like to think that Lucas don't relase the PM DVD because he wants to fight a holy war against the stupid DVD encryption/zoning fiasco. But I know that his reasons are more economic than anything else.
I can't judge this behavior as bad. I think that if it works for him, it's OK, it's his movie and his money.
But I'm sure I won't buy a DVD player, so I'll never be able to buy PM or any movie in that format. It's my little act of protest.
Bullcrap (Score:4)
This same rumor mill (that is at The Digital Bits) is the same rumor mill that in Sept. 1997 was saying "Star Wars on DVD in Feb. 1998!" Then it became "There is a warehouse full of DVDs!" Then it became "Here is the cover art!" which was basically cover art from the Hong Kong black market VCD. Then we got to hear about "They have a warehouse full of discs they are sitting on!"
In other words, unless starwars.com says it is so, don't believe a bit of what you hear on from Digital Bits, E-Town, DVD Resource, or any of the other "In the Know" websites. They don't know.
Re:Interesting argument brewing (Score:4)
I havent owned a single cassette tape since about 87 and I have thrown out most of my VHS. I have a few odds and ends that arent available on dvd yet which I dont want to lose but the minute I see them come out on dvd I'll replace them. You will always be penalized for owning obsolete technology. You just have to go with the flow and update your equipment. Thats like saying I own a 386sx 16 because I dont really need the speed of a pentium. Sure linux runs fine on a 386 16 but do you really want to? Id been penalized for years because my sun was only an old Sparc 5 but eventually I was forced to upgrade. I didnt immediatly throw out the 5 but now it makes a nice Xterm for my new machine which doesnt have a frame buffer. Upgrading is a way of life. When the technology expands beyond your capabilities you become obsolete. Its just part of life.
I marked my fathers retirement 2 years ago as the end of the executives who didnt know how to read email. He was obsolete, It was time to go. There will always be a few hold outs and theres alot of nostalgia out there on old stuff. I bought an apple ][ at a garage sale not long ago for 10 bucks cause I thought it would be fun to play with since I used one for years. Wasnt worth the 10 bucks. In another 10 years someone will say the same for VHS. Sometimes this fails of course. While I dont own a single cassette player in my house the one in my truck gets used to play books on tape. Why? Well the library has them, most of which were donated by people who got rid of there casettes in favor of cd. Of course anyone whos ever tried to look up anything current in there local library on computers knows its a losing battle. They are never current, just part of life. On the flip side if i need to remember how to program that apple 2 I can go down to the library and get an applesoft basic book. Librarys are basicly museums of one form or another, VHS belongs in one such museum as is evidenced by the fact that you can now check out VHS movies in the local library. Mines even started to offer a few DVD's.
Re:the fuss? (Score:4)
PURE ENTERTAINMENT
Why should we infer any moral lessons from Star Wars? In case you didn't catch it, Star Wars is a Science Fiction movie. Meaning it isn't real. Meaning you shouldn't read too deeply into it.
I get sick and tired of all the people who want to draw social, economic and moral conclusions from a damn movie. Maybe some of those Indie artsy-fartsy movies are trying to send a message, but most Holywood blockbusters are only trying to do one thing; make money.
Get over it.
the fuss? (Score:4)
On a more serious note, David Brin wrote a thought provoking article for Salon a while back entitled "Star Wars" despots vs. "Star Trek" Populists [salon.com]. He seriously examines the moral themes of the Star Wars series and compares them to Star Trek.
Brin argues that the moral lessons that we are supposed to draw from Star Wars include:
Elites have an inherent right to arbitrary rule; common citizens needn't be consulted. They may only choose which elite to follow.
"Good" elites should act on their subjective whims, without evidence, argument or accountability.
Any amount of sin can be forgiven if you are important enough.
True leaders are born. It's genetic. The right to rule is inherited.
Justified human emotions can turn a good person evil.
Not too surprising given Lucas's view that "there's probably no better form of government than a good despot." (New York Times interview, March 1999)
Brin makes one particularly interesting point about Darth Vader's redemption in Return of the Jedi. He writes:
-- Diana Hsieh
Second That (Score:5)
Personally, I'd much rather see the original (you know, the "good") Star Wars episodes on DVD before anything else, including an episode 1 DVD or even before the theatrical release of episode 2.
I think Lucas ought to hand Ep. 2 over to a director who knows how to make movies not suck ass and work on doing his required lot of smarmy, self-congradulatory psudo-interviews which he seems to think we all want to see on the DVD version and just get them out.
I mean, do we really want to see more of Jar Jar? Wouldn't you rather have the original movies with digital sound and picture?
----
Re:the fuss? (Score:5)
WRT the supposed inherent right to rule, Leia and Luke earned their role in the rebellion. It should be noted perhaps that Leia doesn't run the rebellion, Mon-Mothma does. Later, in the books, Mon-Mothma steps down and Leia is ELECTED president, she in turn steps down to be replaced by Borsk Fe'lya. Luke's only permanent command is Rougue squadron. He is head of the Jedi academy, but only because others choose to follow him.
As for the "Elites" acting on a whim, the lesson is rather that you should follow your conscience, something that is lacking in modern times. As for accountability, during the rebellion all the charactors are accountable to the leaders of the rebellion, in the New Republic, everybody is accountable to the senate. Even the jedi are accountable. This was true in the old Republic as well. The actions of the Jedi had to be accounted for to the Jedi Council, who were in turn accountable to the (elected)President.
Darth Vader was never forgiven, by anyone. Not by Luke, certainly never by Leia. Brin points out the amount of havoc that Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin have caused but the potential for things to have turned out worse is immense. If Yoda had not trained the Skywalkers, there would have been no-one to stand aginst the Emperor at all. Palpatine and Darth Maul would have had complete rule over the galaxy. Yoda's training Anakin gave him the inner strength to return to tha light at the end. If it had only been Palpatine trainiing him, then there would have been no light side in him. As Obi-Wan pointed out, may things that seem untrue, just depend on your point of view. If Brin thinks that the world is black and white, he should think again. Not only is the world shades of grey, but that shade changes depending on the light you look at them in.
Star Wars makes no claim that leadership is inherited. The force may be inherited, but in the Star Wars universe, there are force strong individuals are born to families otherwise without any trace of the force. Secondly, over the timespan that we have to study, there were two force strong President, out of the five that we know about, in a saga specifically about the force. There are also very few force strong individuals in positions of power in other institutions across the galaxy.
The last, about justified human emotions turning people evil. We see this in everyday life, incidents across the world have led to a greater concern for the safety of children, a perfectly justified emotion, the hatred of evil. But this emotion has led to programs like WAVE America that was discussed recentlt on slashdot. Brin's "Perfectly justifiable emotions" are among the seven "deadly" sins. In our fight agains the Nazis, we produced Bomber Harris and argument still rages to this day as to whether he was better or worse than the enemy we were fighting. For those of you who don't know him, Bomber Harris led the British bomber command during the second world war. The phrase "Kill them all, let God sort them out" is attributed to him. This was in reference to German civillians and how he could know that he was killing only the guilty with his large scale bombing raids. One lesson that we should learn from that war is that hatred breeds evil, Germany learned to hate and created the Nazis. While hate seems justifiable, it inevitably leads to someone or some people becoming worse than those they hate.
In response to your last point, Vader was not forgiven, ever, by anyone.
Episode 1 DVD (Score:5)