Neal Stephenson on Digital Village 57
Doran writes: "We interviewed Neal Stephenson this Wednesday morning for Digital Village and will be playing Part One of the tape this Saturday and Part Two on April 29th. We discussed his recent talk at CFP2000, his thoughts on Open Source vs. Everything Else, and how the cypherpunks have received latest effort. It starts a little slow (it was 6 a.m. for us, 9 a.m. for him) but once we got going, it was pretty interesting. For those of you not in Southern California, we'll be posting the program in RealAudio by Sunday evening.
"
RealAudio... blah! (Score:1)
Could we have something other than RealAudio as default please?
Digital Village? (Score:2)
Y M C A! Y M C A!
TOGETHER!
Y M C A! Y M C A!
Digital Village (Score:1)
Ok, Digital villagers, we are starting our program, the topic of the program is "how to milk a cow without taking your hands of the keyboard" or "Man, it ain't easy being a cow in a digital village"
Buzzword alert (Score:2)
_____________ used the following buzzwords (check all that apply):
[ ] paradigm shift
[x] digital (used in a non-technical context)
[ ] "think outside the box"
[ ] e-commerce
[ ] geek/nerd/hacker (by a non-technical person)
[ ] Other (specify) __________________
Shame on you. To rectify this situation you will:
[ ] Take a 1 day sabbatical from your job
[ ] Take a 1 week sabbatical from your job
[x] Watch a barney and friends telemarathon
[ ] Be locked in a closet with Market Droids.
[ ] Guest star on MTV
And don't do it again. Lastly,
[ ] Good luck
[x] Get help
[ ] Get bent
Sincerely,
Signal 11
Re:Digital Village (Score:1)
-Ok., Digital Villagers, our topic today will be
"Beating up the Digital City boys".
PROPRIETARY IS BAD!!!! (Score:1)
OpenSource Everything!!! (Score:1)
Neil's a good example of opensource publishing done right.
And more to the point the book is ENTIRELY his own content.
I'd like to see more authors like him around.
what really sucks is bothering to post the interview later as a realaudio file, what about streaming mp3???
Good for them (Score:3)
Q: Which reminds me. Why do you guys talk about politics so much? Isn't this a show about computers?
A: Digital Village is actually a program about communication and technology. When we started the program, we found there were a number of other computer programs on radio (Gina Smith, etc.) and TV (Computer Chronicles, etc.) that talked about the hardware. And that's good, because people wanted and needed to know more about how a computer worked.
But there weren't any programs on the air that focused on the social and cultural ramifications of computers and the Internet (and the whole telecommunications revolution). We decided that we'd be that program. We agreed to focus on this impact until we ran out of topics. That agreement still stands.
Don't get me wrong. Ric and I enjoy the toys and want to talk about the goodies too. But the core of the show is how these technologies are *fundamentally* changing the way we communicate. I can't overstate that point. Because of this, we'll never in good conscience be able to ignore the politics of a digital society.
I'm glad that this is being discussed on traditional media rather than just on the Internet alone. If enough people listen to that station and if we can put "The Slashdot Show" or something on it, we can get our message about freedom out. I personally haven't listened to the station or the show, though the show looks interesting with or without Neal Stephenson.
Re:Digital Village (Score:1)
If I was going to choose another good one... (literal meaning aside of course) I'd choose Digital Vomit. i-i-uh-ah-i. That's a good one.
Why RealAudio?? (Score:1)
I'm trying to _REDUCE_ my proprietary software usage. Sites that provide only realaudio downloads don't help any.
Digital Villagers (Score:4)
Silicon Valley - Digital Hell
Berkley - Digital Heaven
Xerox - Digital Gods
IBM - Digital Goliath
Microsoft - Digital Terrorists
DEC - ? Analog company ?
Cisco - Digits Commute
AT&T - Digital Washroom
Apple - Digital Fruits
etc
Re:OpenSource Everything!!! (Score:1)
correct link [cryptonomicon.com].
Re:Why RealAudio?? It's the standard (Score:1)
Realaudio is a defacto standard. You can't argue with that. If you're only going to have one audio file, it'd better be RealAudio. That's the way to reach the broadest audience.
A better question: Why just one file? The Rapidly Changing Face of Computing [compaq.com] uses MP3, RealAudio and ToolVox, in addition to the web and email versions.
Finally, MP3 is not a completely open format. If you want to use it, you must license patents. So while it's less proprietary than RealAudio, it's still proprietary.
Re:Why RealAudio?? (Score:1)
-----
Vikhozhu odin ya na darogu;
Skvoz' tuman kremnisti put' blectit;
Noch' tikha. Pystinya vnemlet bogu,
RealMedia (Score:1)
Quit Complaining! (Score:2)
Personally, if this thing was broadcast by Navajo Code Talkers I'd be happy. Neal Stephenson is an amazing author; one of the true visionaries of sci-fi. Rather than endlessly complain about the format of the talk, just accept it and be happy that we get to listen to him speak. Yeah, Real Player is proprietary and NON-OPEN SOURCED. But you know something...its not that terrible of a player.
I suppose it could've been broadcast in a Windows Media Player format.
Don't let quibbles over the format ruin what sounds like a great interview!
Power Outage (Score:1)
Is this still going to be up tonight since the station had a power outage saturday and part one won't be broadcast until the 29th? I didn't see it in the archive.
Re:OpenSource Everything!!! (Score:2)
Actually, Bruce Sterling has had an entire book available online for quite sometime. The Hacker Crackdown : Law and Disorder on the Electronic Frontier. Neil is in noway trail blazing by putting an essay(which, In The Beginning is). Don't get me wrong, I like his work a lot, but he's by no means a trend setter for posting a work online.
Re:Quit Complaining! (Score:1)
Re:Quit Complaining! (Score:1)
Re:Power Outage (Score:3)
Well, lets see (Score:1)
Realplayer:
Largest d/l: 9.3MB
Smallest d/l: 3.6MB
Winamp:
Largest d/l: 2MB
Smallest d/l: 560KB
Also note that the winamp site has a big flashy "Get Winamp Now" link, while the realaudio site has the download link hidden off to the side under "Top Free Downloads", and even after following that, you're presented with an add for "Realplayer Plus", with a diminutive link to "Realplayer Basic". Even after that, they force you to enter demographic (read: spam) info before they let you at the download page.
Now which should you send John Q Public, who probably isn't that net savvy, to?
Cheers,
Rick Kirkland
MP3 Players Included with Commonplace Browsers (Score:1)
Let's also remember that recent versions of Netscape Communicator include the Winamp MP3 player, and that recent versions of Microsoft Internet Explorer include the Windows Media Player, which has MP3 playback capability. If you use Realaudio streams, there's a much higher chance that customers will have to make a rather large download versus no download at all.
Re:Digital Villagers (Score:1)
Who is neil stephenson (was: flame away...) (Score:1)
Re:Insightful post, that... (Score:1)
Quite obviously you didn't read my previous post as carefully as you should have. It was my suggestion to replace "Windows" with "WINBLOZEW" (note the caps).
By the by, the code for the first funny symbol "æ" is 230; the second funny symbol "ß" is 223. Good day to you all.
My defacto standard day (Score:1)
...and I could probably go on like this. But I'll spare you.
A defacto standard music format is ridiculous. There's no defacto standard. Network standards are needed so that computers can talk to each other and not get confused. What on Earth would you want a defacto standard audio format for? So Joe sixpack don't gotta download two music players? What about open standards? Patent or no, MP3 is far more open than RealAudio.
Re:Digital Village (Score:1)
Neal Stephenson is lame. (Score:1)
Why does anyone pay attention to this guy? He, like Bill Gibson, is basically a computer illiterate that writes fiction w/o any understanding of the technology they're writing about.
People complain when they hear "hacker" used in a negative light...but it's guys like Neal that _revel_ in the dark side of criminal computer cracking. It's the butter on their bread, and they know it.
Someone pointed me to some baloney that he wrote on command line OSes -- and it was just rife with errors. Written clearly by someone who wasnt there and didnt live through those times.
Give me a Steven Levy or Cliff Stoll portrayal of computer hackers over what these buffoons write any day.
Re:Quit Complaining! (Score:1)
Not that terrible of a player? It tries to take over your desktop and file mappings on both windows and the mac, they want you to register with demographic information and an email address, you have to set a dozen or so settings to make sure it's not going to contact their server to tell them what you listen to, or to automatically download updates, or to subscribe you to "special offers".
Maybe the format isn't bad, but the player is AWFUL.
Re:Good for them (Score:1)
You think that there is a 'traditional media' anymore? You fool. What was previously the 'traditional media' has been absorbed by the AOL-Time Warner-Military conspiracy. Are you aware that CNN, part of this so called 'Traditional Media' and a key part in the AOL-Time Warner supercorporation used military-grade psychological warfare [fair.org] during the Kosovo conflict? I didn't think so. The so called 'Traditional Media' is a massive government propaganda machine designed solely to allow the government to justify continued funding to the military. In return, the military will wage war on third world countries if the government needs to cover its tracks (Chinagate, Monica, etc), and the media justify it by using irrational logic combined with propaganda and subliminal messaging.
I ask that you not refer to this conspiracy as 'Traditional Media', but refer to it as 'the conspiracy that seeks to control the minds of American civilians by any means necessary'. Therefore, your last paragraph would be better stated as:
I'm glad that this is being discussed on the conspiracy that seeks to control the minds of American civilians by any means necessary, rather than just on the Internet alone. If enough people listen to that propaganda output center and if we can put "The Slashdot Propaganda Show" or something on it, we can get our message about freedom out. I personally haven't listened to the government conspirators or the propaganda, though the propaganda looks interesting with or without misused victim of the conspiracy Neal Stephenson.
Re:Buzzword alert (Score:1)
What, nothing with "cyber" or some amalgam of information and highway-ness on that list? Are those passé already? Man, I gotta take more studious notes...
Re:Power Outage (Score:2)
Do you have any comments on why it is only availible in realaudio format?
Irony (Score:2)
his thoughts on Open Source vs. Everything Else,
Broadcast, of course, with an end-to-end proprietary player whose manufacturer has aggresively attacked anyone attempting to reverse engineer players or servers.
Re:First God Post (Score:1)
--
linuxisgood:~$ man woman
Re:Digital Villagers (Score:1)
I tend to think of 1337 d00dz as digital terrorists. I mean, they have their reasons, and they are perfectly justified, to themselves. The other 99% of the community hates them and wishes they would all die.
On the other hand, Microsoft is more like a Digital Packrat. They spread disease (bloated code, gooey GUI) and are generally annoying. They steal bits and pieces from everybody to enhance their own empire. They are mistaken by half the world for something cute, fuzzy and nice, and the other half has come to realize what they are.
I would probably have time to finish this comment, but I decided to do some experimental work on the \etc\passwd file for a critical system right before I make backups. I'm using an editor that I have no idea how to use to make the changes. I wonder if that beep I just heard was it autosaving? Oops.
Clarification on the dates of the Radio Broadcast (Score:2)
Digital Village's [digitalvillage.org] website clarifies it a bit, explaining that:
Re:Quit Complaining! (Score:1)
While I don't see why this interview can't simply be transcribed to text (something the man himself would probably advocate) and I certainly don't condone the use of *hakkkk* RealAudio *spit* (RealPlayer is FAR from non-terrible) and I fail to see why your comment deserved to be moderated up, I do have to admit:
It's not as if one can't convert RealAudio to MP3 easilly enough.
Anybody have a link?
Re:Power Outage (Score:2)
They'd rather pay for inferior software than get better software for free? (as in beer AND speech)
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Re:asdf (Score:1)
Maybe JonKatz is actually Susan P. Coach, the lobster is actually the Columbine School Shootings, and the thousands of mud shrimp were JonKatz's stories. Really, he already integrated concepts that you are just thinking of now.
At the same time, that post is an insightful look into the entire Digital Villiage paradigm. You see, Slashdot is Susan P. Coach, the entire Digital Villiage thing is the lobster, and a bunch of idiot posters are the mud shrimp. Your post looks kind of like a mud shrimp anyhow.
Re:OpenSource Everything!!! (Score:1)
Besides, Neal's work is actually decent; unlike a lot of free content, he gave it away even though there is an actual, honest-to-goodness money-exchanged-for-a-real-book market for it. Unlike The Hacker Crackdown (yuk).
Re:Neal Stephenson is lame. (Score:1)
wish I could find that article--oh well
he is obviously not compter illeterate though
Re:Neal Stephenson is lame. (Score:1)
Generaly, it's the Gibsons and Stephonsons in life that envision the places that you will go tomorrow.
Re:Neal Stephenson is lame. (Score:1)
My understanding is that he has had coding jobs in
the past. He certainly knows perl.
Alex
Re:Who is neil stephenson (was: flame away...) (Score:2)
Stephenson no "buffoon" (Score:2)
While you're right about Gibson (the man admits to never having seen a computer before writing Neuromancer), this is completely inaccurate regarding Stephenson. The man is clearly literate in a couple of programming languages and systems, and admits to using Emacs [emacs.org] as his editor of choice for writing English text.
Sorry, I just don't see that. Now, I haven't read every Stephenson novel there is, but in both Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon the "hackers" are people who build things. YT's question to Hiro ("if you're such a great hacker, how come you're delivering pizza?") is a valid one, and part of the answer is that Hiro is not a criminal. Randy Waterhouse and the Epiphyte(2) "hackers" are also engaged in creation, not destruction. The only character who is clearly a "cracker" is Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse, and since he's a WWII codebreaker, he's wearing a white hat anyway.
You mean "In the Beginning was the Command Line?" Funny, I thought it was spot-on. But I guess I must not have "lived through those times" -- I've only been programming for 20 years, and using Unix for 13 years.
I find that Stephenson's novels have enough correct technical details to give me the feeling of "yeah, he's either been there or knows somebody who has." Now, if you don't like his prose style, or his philosophy about operating systems and editors, then fine. But he's not a Gibson, making stuff up out of whole cloth.
Re:Stephenson no "buffoon" or visionary (Score:1)
I realize that the political privacy ramifications of living in a digital world is a very important topic but it seems that everyone from Slashdot to reporter types like Katz to fiction writers like Stephenson are getting obsessive about this. Listen, the Open Source community and the FSF folks and all the other people who have clued into this site for years need to focus on taking the OSes they code for -- Linux, BSD varient GNUhurd whatever to the next level and creating the next generation in OS/human interface design instead of focusing so intensely on politics.
It is not that I think we should not worry at all. However, it seems that a lot of folks are so focused on the politics it is hard to see the focus on the future, at least from here.
Re:Digital Village (Score:1)
Re:Neal Stephenson is lame. (Score:1)
As far as I know, William Gibson has never claimed any great degree of computer literacy. I seem to remember reading somewhere that he wrote Neuromancer on a typewriter and is quoted here (http://fbox.vt.edu:10021/J/jfoley/gibson/rogers_
"You know, when I wrote Neuromancer I'd never even heard the term hacker. If I had done I would have used it in the book."
Gisbon and Stephenson may, as you say, be computer illiterates writing fiction without any understanding of the technology they're writing about (though I doubt it in Stephenson's case). However, it would seem to me that you are a "computer literate" that reads fiction without any understanding of what the author was writing about. Fiction is not about "accuracy" or "technical understanding". Gibson, in Neuromancer, was not writing about computers, but about post-modern society. Its not about whether the computer gear the characters uses to surf the net is feasible, but about the breakdown of societies when multinational corporations can reign unchecked by governments and morality
In the case of Neil Stephenson, you are demonstrably wrong in your statement that he (Stephenson) revels in the dark side of computer cracking. None of his characters in any of the books I have read (SnowCrash, Diamond Age or Cryptonomicon) were computer crackers. The major characters in both Snowcrash and Cryptonomicon were legitimate programmers (and hackers) who had to deal with and overcome the cracker mentality - Hiro in Snowcrash defeating the spread of a virus, and Randy in Cryptonicon overcoming industrial spies. Page 806 of the Trade paperback issue of Cryptonomicon actually discusses the media's fascination with hackers and portraying them as bad guys. I'm guessing that you didn't make it all the way to page 806 ??
The "baloney" you mentioned, is called "In the Beginning" and may be found here http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html. I didn't notice any glaring errors in the text - but I would hardly call myself an expert on the topic of operating systems - despite teaching Computing Studies to High Schools students for the last ten years, as well as administering a network that incorporates Netware, NT and Linux Servers. Perhaps someone here at slashdot could point out some of the more obvious errors in the text to me ?
But once again, I think you missed the point of the article. Stephenson's writings were not intended as a technical description of how to use an operating system. If I wanted a completely accurate description of an operating system I'd refer to a manual or read the appropriate "man".
Perhaps you should have another look at the article and see if you can work out what Stephenson was writing about - leave your prejudices aside and see if you can actually make it all the way to the last line this time.
Historically, gov is not benign (Score:1)
The last 50 years of = 1% of history's 5000 years.
The 20 Democratic countries of western Europe and the US = about 1% of the 200 or so in the UN.
This is much too un-representative a sample t oconclude that gov is benign.
Remember: Germany was one of the 3 (maybe 4 or 5) highest civilizations on earth in 1925. Science, art, technology, business, military. 25% of Jews were marrying outside of their faith in Berlin in 1925. They were completely integrated society. At the turn of the century, Mark Twain wrote an essay saying that anti-semitism was no longer an important force in German society.
By the early 1940s, Germans were killing their neighbors/relatives/friends with equanamity.
Never believe it can't happen in your home town. Never believe it can't be your group which is demonized, then rounded up and killed.
As one worrying trend, govs of the Western world are using demonization as a political/propaganda tool to an increasing extent : terrorists, smokers, gun-owners, 'religious nuts', immigrants,
Lew
Why only RealAudio (Score:1)
Simply put, we use RealAudio because I only have time to encode each program in one format and we've chosen to use the most widely used format. In the future we may have multiple formats, but for now it's just RA.
Why Real Audio (Score:1)
This is great and all -- (Score:1)
Sure, if you'll volunteer to transcribe it! (Score:1)
Re:Afternoon, idiot (Score:1)
Re:OpenSource Everything!!! (Score:1)
I bought a number of his books after reading that essay, as I enjoyed it. Giving readers a chance to sample an authors work is a probably a good tactic to get them to read more. I don't know whether people would buy a book if they could get it for free. At the moment reading a novel is much more enjoyable in book form rather than on a computer for the simple reason that a book is much easier to take with you wherever you go. Its much easier on your eyes too.
I also bought one of David Brins books after reading a number of the essays on his homepage. But I have to say that his essays are much better than his books. Maybe I just got one of his bad ones.
Re:Digital Village? (Score:2)
1010110 01001101 0100011 0100001!
1010110 01001101 0100011 0100001!
With apologies to Johnny O'Binome. :)