Slashback: Books, Spooks, Violence, Recovery 104
Library of Congress will have online items o'plenty. franimal wrote in reaction to the report that the Library of Congress does not plan to digitize its collection. "Even though reading online may be 'mindless,' 'isolating,' 'lonely' and 'arrogant' the Library of Congress plans to have 5 million 'items' posted by the end of the year."
Twice as close to the middle of nowhere. HerringFlavoredFowl pointed out that "Ikonos 1 has just raised the bar on Area 51 images. As we all remember, terraserver just released a set of two meter images taken in 1998. Space Imaging snapped this set on April 4th, 2000. The Federation of American Scientists [has posted] a wonderful side by side interpretation of these images. Thank you John Pike for clueing me in on the FAS update. Space.com also has some color images and an the steps Mr. Pike went through to obtain these images. "
One lump or two? Or three? Scott Marks and hordes of fellow travelers let us know that "The US DOJ U.S. v. Microsoft web site has all the gory legal details on the Proposed Final Judgment as well as a number of other interesting tidbits. Not the least is the ability to comment on the trial directly: 'If you would like to send the Antitrust Division your comments on this case, please direct your correspondence to Microsoft.atr@usdoj.gov .'"
What kind of power is that? After the latest brouhaha both on Slashdot and in the rest of the world about the link between violence and video games, Jer Davis wrote: "The Tech Report has an article up written by Andy Brown dissecting some of the psychological studies that have been released recently regarding correlations between real-life violence and violent video games. ... This is a very important issue, and Andy does an excellent job at dissecting the very suspect results these studies have claimed."
And speaking of violence ... Deadli contributed the news that the secretary of education opposes mechanical profiling programs according to this Washington Post article. Perhaps he's been reading the reaction to Jon Katz' article on WAVE.
Once in a while, some good news slips through. In this case, it's from TheGreek, who wrote, "Jason Haas is out of the hospital and well on his way to recovering." Congratulations, Jason.
Re:icon (Score:1)
> but at some timein your life you did
Sorry to disappoint you, but I went straight from Amiga to Linux in 1995 -- no fscking DOS here, please.
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here's my redundant post (Score:2)
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Peace,
Lord Omlette
AOL IM: jeanlucpikachu
Re:OK so... (Score:2)
This is a dashed good point--I'd never quite thought of it like that.
An OS is just a device which manages resources; everything else an application. That includes things such as file browsers, graphics systems, window managers and the rest.
The problem is that a computer sold with just an OS is not very useful; it cannot do anything useful to most users. So the question arises: what is the minimal amount of software needed for a `complete' system? Unfortunately, opinions will differ on this one. I would argue that the following things are needed:
This can be anything from cat/more/rm/mv/ls to a full-fledged Finder, Explorer or Midnight Commands environment. But this is vital to the use of the computer; the user can do nothing without it.
This can be anything from a simple command-line to curses to QuickDraw, the Windows graphics API or X+window manager. But it is obviously important that the user be able to deal with the computer.
This list is probably not complete, but these are the bits I can think of right now.
I do not believe that Internet applications are properly within the realm of the OS distribution. They are and should be add-ons; users should have a choice. OTOH it is appropriate for the distribution to provide hooks in the OS or file browser for Internet awareness: NFS, FTP or HTTP filesystems (take a look at anarchie for what an HTTP filesystem might look like).
Bundling third-party software is fine, but there is a problem with bundling one's own software: users are much less likely to replace an OS-branded component than a third party one, and there is a strong temptation to use hidden protocols to get things done. I do not believe that it is possible to integrate any third-party browser into a Windows machine as tightly as IE is, even if one were to write it from scratch. I may be wrong on that, though.
The goal should be something like what we have on Unix boxes. Distributions provide all sorts of tools (or don't: e.g. cc...), but they are all compatible, follow standards and can be replaced easily. This is one of my problems with Gnome/KDE: they are not drop-in replacements for each other, and they tend to break the older way of doing things. For good reasons, no doubt, but still I dislike them for it.
The Mac used to be something like this. In the old days there were Minifinders and Microfinders which offered some of the Finder's functionality with less overhead. The Mac is still light-years ahead of Windows, which is a dank cesspit of folly.
what defines an os (Score:1)
That's exactly what MSIE originally appeared to be/be marketed as...was like a file browser for the internet. I'm not sure the DOJ sees it that way. and i'm not certain that they really understood the context in which MS integrated MSIE into their OS. I see no problems with this....but then again. Windows isn't my primary OS. I mean, to be quite frank, i'm not sure that Netscape ever really had too much of a bone to pick with MSIE - i think they were just frightened at the thought that MSIE would be a better browser because of it's inherent integration into the OS. -- i'm just frightened that certain companies in the industry used jaded tech experts to help the DOJ bring down MS. -- alot of their business tactics are questionable to say the least, but a MS is only a monopoly if you believe that the general public is too stupid to use any other OS. Back in the days of Standard Oil or AT&T - there really WAS no other alternative. With an OS...that's really not the case. Personally i think the DOJ fucked up on this one.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Re:Two Company Breakup ? (Score:3)
(1) Without an application line-up, there will be no reason for Windows Inc to have an undocumented or obscured API. They should be more than happy to provide complete documentation. With a breakup, that problem will solve itself.
(2) The Apps company will still have no incentive to provide open file formats. The MSOffice document problem is not going to go away, as much as you might like it to. (The Govt. case did not directly address Office, and no evidence was presented about the document lock-in as far as I know.) Hell, Unix office suite vendors haven't even standardized on open formats with their fractional marketshare - why should MSApps do it with a 90% monopoly.
There is some light at the end of the tunnel, though -- The Office formats are documented on MSDN, as some might know. The big problem is that they rely on some OLE Stream on-disk format that isn't documented, and might require a port of COM to achieve. The Windows company would own COM, and might document this disk format enough that it could be reverse engineered.
Of course, there is also a big problem that I alluded to. XML file formats are the future, and pretty soon corporations and the government are going to require them from vendors. However, right now the DOJ plan has all of the XML stuff being owned by the Apps company, which means that they will have the incentive to twist the standards to support their Office monopoly. Internet Explorer, HTML, DOM, XML, and so on are really an API, and should be controlled by the Windows company, which will have an interest to keep these specs open and in conformance. Politically, that ain't going to happen, though.
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Re:Random thoughts on random stories (Score:2)
The non-insider shareholders own very little of the company. Microsoft still has gone from a split-adjusted US$.21 (?) at IPO to US$69.75 today, so quit your whining. If all you wanted to do was make money, you still did fine. Bill may be gambling that the gov't will not want to tank the economy as well as the pension funds of all those voters, and thus will let him off easy. For him, this gamble is a better solution than compromising his right to run his company any way he wants.
Walt
great images; disable JavaScript (Score:1)
Fortunately, this is easy: disable JavaScript (Active Scripting under security settings) and, yessir, the right click works as God [mailto] intended.
Yes, this is an IE-specific tip. Of course, Opera users will have no trouble zooming in on the images with or without right clicking. And, as for Netscape...does anybody still use it? ;)
(Note: I download the nightly builds of Mozilla every day).
Now, all you have to do.... (Score:1)
2) Stop calling people Cowards
3) End anonymous moderation
Might be too late... (Score:2)
It'll be interesting to see if it becomes a campain issue...
btw, Al Gore supports the current case, so vote for him!
If I had a rocket launcher... (Score:2)
>did...not because video games cause violence but because violent personalities are probably more
>inclined to play violent video games. Which would take all responsibility for this violence off of
>the video games' shoulders.
I think you've misinterpreted both the original results and the critique. The initial aggressiveness of the subjects was controlled for in the experiment; basically, everyone got a go. I do believe there were confounding factors in the noise-blast portion of the experiment (which the critique gets close to discovering - for instance I'd be more concerned about the fact that Wolf 3D is more adrenalising than Myst (even though it bores the heck out of me), and thus likely to make people less sensitive to any kind of critical choice, noise-blast-duration or anything else). Between-subject difference wasn't one of them, however; this is one of the most basic elements of research design, and no psych journal would publish a study that was so easily confounded in that manner.
Like the author of the critique, I'm a tech type with a lot of video game experience and a psych degree (convincingly named a B.S.S.
Common sense is often the best tool we have in this sort of area. Does playing a little Quake or Marathon turn you into a monster? Nope, but playing a hell of a lot of it really will tune you out of reality and skew your idea of what's reasonable to do IRL. Been there, done that (but it was MUDs and not 3D shooters, coincidentally while I was supposedly taking that psych degree). The real danger of twitch games isn't as much the violent content as the addictiveness; the violence just isn't a great ingredient in the kind of mild dissociation that results from doing anything out of balance. Any kind of science requires a healthy amount of agnosticism, and the thing you have to be most agnostic about is the value of Science itself.
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:1)
That's just what they want you to think.
Never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line!
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:2)
-B
Re:great images; disable JavaScript (Score:1)
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:1)
Exactly! The research is probably going on under Area 51!
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Re:A problem exists! (Score:1)
Stupid people are infecting the world ... we need a cure ...
Threaded main-page articles. (Score:2)
Re:Call it BackSlash (Score:1)
I hadn't considered a connotation of revenge, actually -- I was thinking of the skating / surfing / snowboarding move
The problem with backslash is that it's already taken (it's the name of another, internal section of the slash site).
The other names I've thought about so far have been too lame to repeat (I know -- I just wrote them in and deleted 'em) but I'd be happy to consider others
timothy
Re:Jason Haas (Score:2)
Anyone know what happened between April 14th and now? He's obviously gotten better now. Did he ever ask for that laptop in the hospital?
--GnrcMan--
Re:Two Company Breakup ? (Score:1)
This gets at what I was saying -- without the dev tools, DCOM, IIS, and yes IE, the Windows company is doomed in the long run and the 'breakup' really is not one. The current plan is too unfair to the OS side and leaves the Apps side plenty of monopolistic latitude.
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Re:Microsoft vs. DOJ (Score:1)
If you were an OEM, would you want this? I'd think not. Windows occupies over 90% of desktops, this isn't going to change any time soon. Why should OEMs be dictated how they build machines? Most people buy a PC expecting an OS to be preloaded, and its usually Windows, its what the majority of customers want. The majority of customers don't want to have to deal with buying a PC, then installing an OS, and any additional software. The business model for an OEM isn't going to change much in this respect. The OEM cares more about an individual (the key word here being "individual") customers needs than MS does. OEMs assemble large quantities of PCs, and sell them. Why should they have to wait for specific orders before they assemble them? This would drive PC costs up, is this in the consumers best interests?
aRDy Music © 2000 - mp3's available [linux-help.org]
More followup (Score:1)
Oncore, oncore. It would be nice to see more followup and even followthrough on some of the articles covered here (and elsewhere even)
Netscape should sue! (Score:1)
You, me, and some other slashdot reader ... (Score:1)
MS products often annoy me, I will admit -- I've used windows upon occasion over the course of my life, but frankly for what I do and in my experience it's always been a second- or third-best solution.
Ever since I installed Slackware (which took forever and a lot of headscratching and growling), then Red Hat, then Mandrake (and some in between as well) I've been hooked on Linux, though I also admire and support the various BSD projects and anyone else with the guts to creat an OS.
I think in an open market, MS will change or die as better things emerge. For many people in many situations, there are Linux distros which beat any MS product all to pieces.
What worries me is establishing a mold of proper meekness and behavior for entrepreneurs / CEOs, rather than let the people who buy products make their own decisions / mistakes ... lots of people insult Bill Gates as arrogant and smarmy -- well, OK, he's an imperfect guy:) But I'd not like to be raked over coals for an attitude that regulatory agencies don't like, because that would hurt. The attitude seems to be "Bill Gates should be forced to X ..." and ideally, people shouldn't be forced to do things unless no moral alternative exists. Moral aren't
the governement's strong suit, though.
Anyhow, now watch my karma jerk like a ragdoll for saying that;)
timothy
Re:Analysis of DoJ's Proposed Judgement (Score:1)
Take away the profit they gained by their monopolistic practices.
Cripple their ability to monopolize the future by buying (at a rate of millions of dollars per day) into everything from cable tv companies to news networks to makers of Internet-ready dishwashers.
Interesting side note:Paul Allen has sold off almost all of his Microsoft stock. Of course what little he has left is still worth millions, but it's a very small percentage of what he used to have.
Re:This is a good idea. (Score:2)
Their point was that the Weekly World News uses the same journalistic "standards" as any other media outlet -- repeating the same stories that have been reported elsewhere as fact. Your local paper or the TV news happens to be mindlessly repeating AP stories or whatever, while the WWN is mindlessly repeating UFO and Flat Earth stories printed in South American or Eastern European newspapers.
Slashdot gets flack because an unsubstantiated rumor story will get 250 comments from people treating it as fact. Is that really any different from other journalistic outlets? Look at cable stations like MSNBC -- during their "crisis in the white house" period, they would have 2-3 hours of panel discussions and phone calls per day, often based on completely unsubstantiated rumors. And this is a matter of gross national importance, unlike some story about the Amiga or whatever. AM Talk Radio also does the same thing every day, breeding a political culture where flames are shooting out of people's eyes.
Slashdot is really just a part of the new interactive news/entertainment genre, leaving the real 'journalism' to someone else. (And hopefully the NYT and AP and ZDNet and IDG will stay in business providing this base content.) The net result is far more political that fact oriented, but that's what the viewers want...
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Re:Another fucking Violence Study (Score:1)
Re:Analysis of DoJ's Proposed Judgement (Score:3)
Possible solution: 3rd party XML filters (Score:1)
The MSOffice document problem is not going to go away, as much as you might like it to.
It might if all the rest of the industry adopts XML (extensible markup language) as a common file format. It has already happened with word processing (many include HTML, a dialect of which is an XML application) and spreadsheets (Gnumeric documents are gzipped XML). If Microsoft Applications makes decent import and export filters for XML, things might improve.
the DOJ plan has all of the XML stuff being owned by the Apps company, which means that they will have the incentive to twist the standards to support their Office monopoly.
Many GTK apps use libglade, which uses libxml. When WinGTK matures, libglade will be ported to Windows, which will bring libxml with it. If MSApps fscks with the XML standard, someone will write proper filters between Office's OLE/COM and XML and (I hope) release them as free software.
Re:OK so... (Score:2)
MiniFinders died out pretty much once hard disk became common. Why? Because nobody really wants to spend their time reinventing this base level stuff when the built-in one is good enough. 3rd Party Windows File Managers have been assigned to the same dustbin of history. (Anyone remember TabWorks?)
Unix filemanagers are different story, if only because nobody's invented a really good one yet that fits everyone's licence/widget/API political agenda. There's something about Unix culture that demands that the same wheels get reinvented time and time again, rather than just extending someone elses work like people in the Mac and Win communities do. I don't know if the user base really wants 10 different XTerm programs or file managers or window managers. You seem to be trying to impose the defacto Unix confusion onto the general user base. What they would really like is one really good set of tools that can be extended...
Maybe once KDE and/or Gnome 'finish', people can move onto more productive work, like cloning MS Office. However that's probably wishful thinking on my part.
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Re:This is a good idea. (Score:1)
Re:Threaded main-page articles. (Score:1)
There is a fair degree of customization in that you can check slashboxes and change your threshold to limit your viewing to, say, nothing but News articles with a +5 threshhold. Do that in "lite" mode and you'll probably have a setup that few other readers do
Are you proposing that, say, all articles that have to do with Microsoft be part of a single, ongoing, threaded conversation?
The problem I see with that (and as someone with nothing to do with the slashcode itself, pleae understand) is that the resultant stories would be a) enormous and b) tough to categorize
In fact, the main page serves as a sort of list of threaded stories anyhow -- you can ignore the ones you don't want to read, and only click to read the threads of the ones you do want. Ja??
I think the current system is flawed
timothy
Re:Repeat this (Score:3)
Hence Slashback (trial name only; suggestions happily accepted).
Tim is in charge of this. If you have ideas on how to make it better, send e-mail directly to timothy@slashdot.org [mailto].
- Robin
Followup to Quake Story? (Score:2)
Re:If I had a rocket launcher... (Score:1)
But your ice cream example is a really appropriate one. It shows how a correlational study can lead to two very different conclusions. I still stand by what I said about correlational studies being so bad, however...not because of any lack of scientific worth, but because they're so often misenterpreted. The media tend to think of one logical conclusion from a correlational study (i.e. games lead to violence) and don't realize that there are almost always more than one logical conslusion you can draw from these studies.
Anyway, thanks for the lesson...Im a freshman working on my BS in psych :)
The Video Game Article... (Score:3)
I often wish I had a degree in psychology, then I could go around saying, "I'm a psychologist, obey me" like these types do.
I wonder how long it will be before I see them on Sally Jesse Raphael (is that still on TV, I remember they used to have the anti-D&D fanatics on there during the 80's), touting there new book, Columbine: Why video games were the cause..
I'm always happy when someone who knows about video or computer games can attack the integrity of the anti-gamer people by pointing out that the anti-gamer people never bother to do any investigation into the subject they are studying, video and computer games, before making their sweeping condemnations.
I'm just surprised these two psychologists didn't try to set up a competitive Myst deathmatch...Re:icon (Score:2)
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No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:1)
Hello? Re-read what you just typed(although I added emphasis). Lockheed developed the F-117, not DOD. They are a contractor. Moreover, it was developed by Skunkworks. *Those* boys know how do things and do them right, not necessarily DOD. DOD just knows who to hire to get the job done.
Completly off topic (Score:1)
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:1)
Re:Now, all you have to do.... (Score:2)
Like any marketplace, /. rewards some parties for being good providers, and encourages ownership of comments by 1) allowing anonymous posting and 2) saying anonymous posts (no branding) need to be exceptional to be given the same initial status as owned (branded) comments.
As for anonymous moderation, well, that's the market at work. Select members are asked to pass judgement on the state of the market. Generally speaking, quality is recognized, crap is treated as such and items are average quality are left alone. Seems a better random system than having a /. editorial board.
Finally, about calling people cowards... It's a joke. Get over it.
Word processing in XML (Score:1)
This is a good idea. (Score:4)
CONGRATULATIONS SLASHDOT!!! (Score:5)
Thank you.
Re:Microsoft vs. DOJ (Score:2)
The first company would be the Operating System Business, which does Windows.
The second company would be the Applications Business, which does IE, Office, SQL Server, MSNBC, Hotmail, etc.
The third company is called the "Remaining Business" and keeps the Microsoft name. As far as I can tell, all it will be making is keyboards, joysticks and mice, i.e. the hardware. As I understand, it also keeps Bill Gates. :)
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Another fucking Violence Study (Score:5)
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Re:Word processing in XML (Score:1)
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Analysis of DoJ's Proposed Judgement (Score:5)
btw, personally, I would like to see the current directors (and other high-level types) fired, and outsiders brought in... After all, it's mostly those guys who broke the law.
mechanical profiling (Score:3)
Actuallying assuming 'mechanical profiling' means 'mechanical' then that wouldn't have much to do with WAVE at all. He says he doesn't think it's right to just put behaviors in a formula to pick out the 'dangerous' people.
He's more talking about profiling software, not profiling in general.
CSS isn't just DVD encryption (Score:1)
XHTML doesn't take into account things required for printed output, such as page numbering, page breaks, headers/footers, margins
That's what cascading stylesheets are for. IIRC there are standard CSS extensions to handle printed output.
Re:CSS isn't just DVD encryption (Score:1)
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Re:This is a good idea. (Score:2)
Re:Response to violence (Score:1)
Re:This is a good idea. (Score:2)
This needs its own icon. (Score:2)
I hope to see this far far more often.
The only thing I might suggest is that the errors/retractions have its own icon. The quickies have a vaccuum, the errors (stickies?
Re:This is a good idea. (Score:1)
Almost all of the media we're exposed to nowadays is in a pretty sorry state. At least /. is running its corrections up on the front page, where everyone can see them, instead of in a tiny little box tucked away behind more interesting, yet often not as important stuff.
Slashdot is a new kind of journalism, maybe it's better, maybe it isn't. Maybe it fits your definition of professionalism, maybe it doesn't. Either way, seeing them make an effort to correct mistakes is a good thing.
That gets more complicated ... (Score:4)
Though I bet there could be an automated search-engine function which scanned for other posts mentioning a certain story, updating /all/ stories which deserve it would really be an order of magnitude more difficult -- because really, *every* story usually deserves more than a quick paragraph, but that's (hopefully) what the comments are usually for :) This was an attempt to collate a few of the ones which drew some really interesting / informative new info that readers might not get by skimming the page the first time ...
In the case of information that is misleading or could be damaging, you'll certainly continue to see corrections right in the story if it's still on the page (try /that/ with your copy of the morning paper!) but for more follow-up stories (like these), I think the time spent is hard to justify ... also, I don't want to try to update stories that are already far off the front page, like the one to which the above mention of Jason Haas was a happy update [slashdot.org].
I know it's not perfect, but until I can work out the deal with the millions of monkeys on the roof ... ;)
timothy
Potpourri...more UCITA, please! (Score:2)
There's a pretty long tradition in technology disclaiming things like "Merchantability", "Fitness", "Liability". Go Read a HP license on one of their instruments, for example.
I remain concerned about the integrity of the GPL and other licenses in the face of UCITA.
And what of Sun, Microsoft, et. al? Their licenses have the traditional disclaimers as well.
Comments?
OK so... (Score:1)
I just read the DOJvsMS link and thought to myself WTF. So if this splitup goes through then look what's going to happen. The 'OS' company gets any intellectual property royalty free from the 'App' company. I can see the conversation brewing between Bill Gates (Owner of MS 'OS' Company) and Bill Gates (Owner of MS 'App' Company)
Bill: jeepers bill. we're in two separate companies now...what will we do about MSIE now? How can we integrate it into the OS?
Bill: well Bill...how about we give you MSIE 6 about a year before you roll out Windows 2x and you'll be able to integrate it into the OS anyway.
Bill: That seems like an excellent idea. How much do you want for that 'intellectual property'??
Bill: Well bill - because of the DOJ...it's free of charge. And might i add...you are such a handsome man.
Bill: Thank you Bill. Wow - i never realized that the DOJ has no fucking CLUE what's going on in the tech field and that their ruling really doesn't do shit!
Bill: Indeed. let's hope it stays that way Bill.
curtain
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
This is a great step forward (Score:2)
Re:Analysis of DoJ's Proposed Judgement (Score:1)
Now, while the structural remedy is being appealed to high heaven, the DOJ might be able to convince a judge that the conduct remedies (some of which MS already agreed to in settlement talks) are reasonable enough that they should be implemented immediately. Thus the DOJ has 'won' in the short term, even if the case gets politically sidetracked or overturned a couple years down the road.
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Response to violence (Score:1)
The most important point from this guy's article is that a correlational study is not a causational study...it's not even close. Correlational studies are what are done to feel out the territory, not to make any conclusions. In fact, any rational person would expect these peoples' correlational study to turn out as it did...not because video games cause violence but because violent personalities are probably more inclined to play violent video games. Which would take all responsibility for this violence off of the video games' shoulders.
One note, however. The guy in the article also criticizes the authors for sensationalizing the issue, but I think this is a slightly less valid point. He cites the fact that in college most of the studies he read were dry and tame, and this article is different in the amount of sensationalizing of the topic. I've read journal articles that are this fervent before, though...it doesn't stem from poor authoring, it just stems from the issue being new. When issues in psychology are new and important, emotions tend to run a little higher as people get all worked up about who's right and all that...just my $.02
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:1)
What's so irrelevant about that, pray tell?
Re:what defines an os (Score:2)
Well, they usually *have* to pay for Windows, even if they want something else. MS has also made it difficult to network its computers with non-MS machines. Note that SAMBA was reverse-engineered, just as Star Office and evertyhing else. And Win2K has Win-Kerberos. There are WinModems that only work with MS. And MS also paid web developers to target for special IE-only features (or at least offer IE enhanced pages). There's not Windows Media Player for Linux or BSDs.
MS was able to gain a large market share because they already had a large share of the market. They forced OEMs to not install competing products; they "integrated" their software into their OS for the sole purpose of making it worthless to add Netscape. They *paid* AOL to use IE (specifically, they paid off AOL's contract with Netscape). Part of the AOL deal also included sacraficing MSN (by putting AOL in the On-Line folder).
MicroSoft does not compete fairly. From DR-DOS to Java, they have used their position as the dominant player to thrwart competition rather than competing on the merits.
Look at the Halloween documents. No where do they suggest competing with Linux by actually producing a better product (which, in fact, the author suggests MS is incapable of doing).
Re:I hope to see more of this (Score:2)
Don't forget, there's a search form at the bottom of every Slashdot page.
- Robin
Re:This is a good idea. (Score:1)
On the other hand, I do like the idea of being updated on smaller stories, rather than just running coverage on the DOJ or Amazon.
-Earthman
Two Company Breakup ? (Score:4)
But upon some further reflection, the basic plan makes sense -- The only two significant profit centers they have are Windows and Office, and there's quite a bit of cross-subsidies going on between product lines. In the early days, Office subsided Windows (remember when Windows came free with Excel?), but now days the both stand on their own with billions of dollars of revenue, supporting the rest of the product lineup. There is not a third company (like "Internet") that could reasonably be as successful by itself.
Without OEM 'bundling' contracts, the Apps side would be unlikely to make all of those cheesy multimedia and game titles, for example. Without a 'content' business, the OS side wouldn't be making investments in cable tv systems, etc etc. The division can get murky -- to what extent does SQL Server and Exchange subside Windows 2000 or visa versa? Without the OS business, will Apps even bother taking on Oracle and IBM? Without the Apps business, will OS worry about scalability on server hardware? The price lists are going to be up in the air if a breakup happens, although both companies will still make plenty of money in the short term.
However, in the long run the Windows company faces several very unfair provisions. The big one is that Dev Tools is going to the Applications side, not the Windows side. Every other OS provider (including 'GNU') seems to feel that development tools are essential to OS development, but now the Windows corporation is going to have to figure out how to expand the API without good dev tools support. Like or not, things like MFC and COM would not have happened if VisualStudio wasn't part of the OS business. My guess is that Windows Inc. goes and buys Borland or someone or starts building their own (gcc-based?) development environment first thing if this goes through.
And while I want to see MS broken up as much as any persecuted nerd, I have to agree that in the long run Netscape and Microsoft were right. Web APIs are the platform of the future, and Win32 will eventually be a stagnant, commodity product much like POSIX. The Windows company should really be able to keep IIS and IE -- the future of the platform (DCOM, SOAP, XML) depends on it; although with the pretexts of the case that solution is impossible. Without a web application framework, Windows Inc. will be gone soon enough, maybe replaced by a Linux solution where Apache and Mozilla are seen as intregal parts of the total solution.
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Balls, schmalls. (Score:1)
-j
Re:Possible solution: 3rd party XML filters (Score:1)
I guess what I'd like to see is something more proactive than XML-based application like Glade and Gnumeric. I'd like to see the Unix/Non-MSOffice community define broad, flexible XML-based file formats (or DTDs or Schemas) for Word Processor, Spreadsheet, and Presentation applications and submit those proposals to the appropriate standards bodies. (This would be a great opportunity for IBM, despite their interest in Lotus' 3% office marketshare.)
Right now no such standards exist, but if they did, there's a good chance that customers (especially the US Government) would force MS Office to adopt them.
--
Re:OK so... (Score:2)
My opposition to the IE integration wasn't that Microsoft included a browser with their operating system. IBM did that with OS/2, almost every Linux distro I know of does, and I believe BeOS and MacOS (or whatever its called now!) do too. My problem is that they integrated it. Made many functions of Windows dependant on the web browser, including loading bits of it at startup so it would load faster than other browsers. They also, if memory serves, used their monopoly to prevent computer system distributors from including other browsers with their systems.
-RickHunter
Re:Random thoughts on random stories (Score:2)
> US$.21 (?) at IPO to US$69.75 today, so quit
> your whining. If all you wanted to do was make
> money, you still did fine.
I own no MSHAFT stock, and never have. In fact, at least one conservative investment institution has never bought MSHAFT since they viewed the company as "not well managed".
> Bill may be gambling that the gov't will not
> want to tank the economy as well as the pension
> funds of all those voters, and thus will let him
> off easy.
Bill's been making that gamble all along -- with a lot of other people's money.
The money does not go "poof". It either gets invested elsewhere, or liquidated -- provided people weren't stupid enough to continue holding their stock while the price plummeted. There are no guarantees in the stock market.
For the most part, it's still money. It's just no longer invested in MSHAFT.
As the case approaches the point where it is in the hands of the judical, the legislative and executive branches (and thus the voters) will have little to say about the case either way. A widespread election of conservatives might get some states to drop their suit, but California (as one example) won't drop it. Orrin Hatch, a strong conservative, despises MSHAFT -- his state (Utah) has Novell and Caldera, I believe.
If the loss of a single corporation can "tank" the economy, it's in much worse shape than anyone imagines. Besides, the government is actually *adding* a corporation (sorry).
If anyones pension fund is invested solely in MSHAFT stock, they need to get a lawyer. That would be one of the most egregious mishandlings of fund I have ever heard of. Perhaps you mean MSHAFT employees losing value in their matched assets? As I said earlier, they should have spoken up when the lawsuit approached.
> For him, this gamble is a better solution than
> compromising his right to run his company any
> way he wants.
He does not have a right to run his company anyway he wants. His heavy-handed poor judgement appears to have cost some employees and some unfortunates a lot of money. They should be angry at BG, not me, Linux, DOJ, Sherman, Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Slashdot or whatever. Bill is the problem.
laissez faire and libertarianism are interesting political ideals, but like communism and capitalism (and all extreme/simple political ideas), they tend to fall apart in practice.
A strong free market, on the other hand, is a good thing(tm). Sometimes our government has to step in. Around the turn of the last century, an incredibly small number of Americans controlled the majority of the wealth. Like it or not, Sherman came to being (more or less) to redistribute some of that wealth. The rich became less rich, and a lot of poor became middle class. Those middle class people bought a lot of goods and services, while the rich just held the wealth and watched it grow.
In the Depression, a lot of public programs came into being to help the destitute. Like it or not, Roosevelt did far more to restore a sane economy *by acting* rather than watching the "Hoovervilles" grow.
At this time, the USA is once again facing a crisis of wealth. Less than 5% of the population control more than 40% of the wealth. If the trend continues as it has since the early 1980's, you can expect another round of liberal government intervention -- like it or not. The constitution says they serve *the people*, not *a corporation*, and the people tend to vote their pocketbook.
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:1)
Except, of course, that you are obviously one of Them who wants me to think that that's what you wanted me to think, butI already know that that's what you want me to think, and thus I knew that you would post this and am way ahead of you.
I think.
Unless that's what They want me to think...
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:1)
Re:Analysis of DoJ's Proposed Judgement (Score:2)
btw, it wasn't really the DoJ's job to fine M$ $40B, or whatever it would take to reduce their liquid assets to zero. (they have about $22B in cash and about the same in shares and similar investments). That's the job of all the ambulance chasing lawyers suing on behalf of ripped-off consumers...
Re:A thought about Area 51 (Score:1)
WHERE IS THE FOLLOWUP TO... (Score:1)
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THANX
Please, Sir, may I have some more? (Score:3)
Many thanks. Please stick to this format--maybe make a new story category for it, with a nifty icon.
Actually, here's an idea: Make a new category and start a contest for the best icon. I promise to make lots of contributions. :)
Vovida, OS VoIP
Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product
Actually, they probably don't... (Score:2)
Do did they ever have anything interesting there? Probably. Do they now? I doubt it; simply too much publicity.
Re:Might be too late... (Score:1)
A problem exists! (Score:1)
Even more disturbing, however, is the fact that when somebody else pointed this fact out, as an anonymous reply [slashdot.org] to the first post, he got moderated down to -1, Flamebait, which is more proof that moderators are not reading the guideliens.
Now look, I'm not complaining about the first post -- I thought it was funny myself. The point I'm trying to make here is that people are not reading the moderator guidelines [slashdot.org] ! I invite everyone -- whether you currently have moderator access or not -- to click on the above link right now. And make Slashdot a little better for everybody.
Jason Haas (Score:3)
Random thoughts on random stories (Score:1)
As for splitting up Microsoft, think about what's already happened. The US Federal Government has orchestrated a plumet in the stock of this company and in the wealth of a lot of people. Indirectly, they've also caused a crash in virtually all technology stocks. Whatever happened to laissez faire and all that? I think they've done enough damage already.
Did Jon Katz ever do that interview with the WAVE people? If so, where can I find it? I'm not going to bother stating my opinion on the matter, because I feel the same way everyone else does about WAVE and the so-called video game effect. There can't always be a scapegoat.
The icon I want is either ... (Score:1)
or a photo of my brother Stephen snowboarding or surfing.
That's why I called it "backslash";)
timothy
Re:OK so... (Score:1)
Re:OK so... (Score:3)
"In the case of such Intellectual Property that is related to the Internet browser, the license shall not grant the Operating System Business any right to develop, license, or distribute modified or derivative versions of the Internet browser."
As for Bill talking to Bill:
"After Implementation of the Plan, and throughout the term of this Final Judgment, neither the Operating Systems Business nor the Applications Business, nor any member of their respective Boards of Directors, shall acquire any securities or assets of the other Business;"
Repeat this (Score:2)
Additionally, it'd be nice if it had it's own icon/group so that I could browse the updates when I'm pressed for time.
-Jer
A thought about Area 51 (Score:4)
Now. Area 51, home of UFOs, Little Green (or is it Grey?) Men, Top Sekrit Projects, and possibly Will Smith. Has it occurred to anyone that the government may not have anything interesting down there?
Think about it. The Groom Lake facility is probably one of the most famous testing grounds. Everything going on is surrounded by serious security. Naturally, this means that we all think something big is going on and we spend a lot of time and money trying to get a peek. ("We" probably includes various national governments.) What if the whole thing is just bait? What if Area 51 is a big hoax with DoD-class special effects to keep us mesmerized while the real secret research is going on somewhere totally different?
Hell, if I wanted to keep nosy UFO nuts away from my captured alien specimens and anti-gravity drives, it's what I might do.
Re:Random thoughts on random stories (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft vs. DOJ (Score:1)
Of course, M$ should be penalized for what they have done. How about having to replace IE with Mozilla as a
Sorry for the rant, but this seemed a bit interesting to me. Lets have some comments on this please, rather than moderation.
Not necessarily apropos of WAVE America (Score:1)
The remarks of the U.S.Secretary of Education were made in conjunction with the release of the department's Safeguarding Our Children [ed.gov] action guide.
Note on that page two important things:
So, this story is perhaps relevant to the WAVE problem, it doesn't necessarily reflect totally good news. I suppose reading the action guide itself will let us know for sure.
Re:Two Company Breakup ? (Score:1)
The Dev Tools moving to the WinApps company actually sounds like a clever ploy to prevent development toolkits that are initially MS only, since the OS developers will need to buy them from the Apps company, and I'm sure exclusive dealings between the two will be a no-no.
Re:Two Company Breakup ? (Score:1)
Re:This is a good idea. (Score:1)
Not that any of that's bad. I just don't consider Slashdot to be at all a journalistic site. It's a discussion site. They find other peoples news, post a link to it here, and let us talk about it. I like that. I do wish though that the slashdot authors would keep their own opinions out of the headlines and let people discuss things freely, rather than being herded into a certain line of thought, but that's a discussion for another day.
Re:Two Company Breakup ? (Score:2)
It seems to me that the proposed judgement makes it very easy for MS to shift the vast majority of the Windows APIs to the Apps company. There's certainly precedent (X, Gnome, KDE) for MS to assert that the object management API's and the GUI that make Windows recognizably Windows are not part of the core OS.
Note that nearly all the business restrictions in the proposed judgement apply only to the OS company, so it's in the best interest of MS to leave indispensable Windows API's with the Apps company. No OEM could reasonably claim to sell a Windows desktop without COM, the media libraries, etc etc etc -- and the Apps company isn't restricted in how it can license those bits.
DOJ vs. Microsoft (Score:2)
The Department of Justice has tried to plug all the holes Microsoft might slip through. I suggest reading the DOJ filing to see if they missed anything. I especially like the "Knowing Interference with Performance" section.
If Judge Jackson signs off on this, it's going to happen. Nobody else gets a say.
Re:CONGRATULATIONS SLASHDOT!!! (Score:1)
Re:Random thoughts on random stories (Score:1)
Re:Call it BackSlash (Score:1)
Microsoft vs. DOJ (Score:2)
But I'm not sure if the proposed split up will be effective enough. I think MS should be split up into three companies at least, and Bill Gates should be forced to give up all of his share in all but one of these companies. There should also be a stipulation that they have to charge royalties when dealing with the other former pieces of Microsoft.
On top of that, MS as it is now should have to pay fines totalling up into the billions.
Now, I know some of you will see this post as being rediculous and typical of a Slashdotter who simply dislikes Microsoft. However, only some really, really, really steep penalties will likey immediately hurt MS enough to restore a decent amount of competition to the Desktop OS market.
Re:Random thoughts on random stories (Score:5)
Microsoft, on the other hand, violated a consent decree with the DOJ, has something like a 5% hidden API that gives it's own "clone" applications an advantage over anything their competitor's innovate, and then there's the gory history of settling out of court for:
stealing stacker code;
brain draining borland;
novell networking code distributed with win3.x;
code stolen from ibm;
modifying sun's java api;
apple look and feel.
since they settled these cases, none can be used against them in court. but clearly, they have broken a variety of laws to obtain a monopoly, and have continued to do so to maintain it. that behavior is *deep in sherman territory*.
if anyone is to blame for the drop in Microsoft's share price, there is one man : Bill Gates. he rubber stamped all the illegal behavior, and refused to back off even when faced with devastating lawsuits.
another group to blame are the Microsoft employees and shareholders who refused to stand up and say "Why the hell is this company doing these things?" For that, all of them deserve to lose their ass(ets).
I worked for a $40B company, and they were tightly regulated due to the nature of their business. When executives crossed the line, they were forced to retire or fired. Even without tangible proof. Why? because the company's image was at stake, and that company had an obligation to it's shareholders to follow the law.
Your problem is Bill Gates. He screwed Microsoft investors, other companies, the DOJ, the consumer and cost us all a lot of money in a huge lawsuit.
The myth about consumer benefit is ludicrous. Several years ago I could buy a copy of DR-DOS and Borland C++ for about $150 or so. Now, it's about $360 for Win2K and VC++ Pro.
Go write Gates an email, if you lost money of Microsoft. He's the guy who caused all this.
Re:OK so... (Score:3)
"In the case of such Intellectual Property that is related to the Internet browser, the license shall not grant the Operating System Business any right to develop, license, or distribute modified or derivative versions of the Internet browser."
Bureaucracies tend / need to see all situations as fitting into their way of looking at the world. Discussions here on slashdot about "what *exactly* is an operating system" have drawn out the fact that there is no commonly accepted definition -- but there is a large gang of ones that are claimed to be universally accepted;)
Often it's tossed out as assertion that an operating system and a Web browser are inherently separate / separable things, which is why MS including IE integrated with their OS was seen as such a conniving move.
But ride with me down this slippery slope for a second ...
Can a /file/ browser be part of an OS? That is not to say whether it's vital to the IO functions, but say in the way that most Linux distros come with quite a few file browsers ... I think most people would say that a file browser is a legitimate / important part of a useable OS.
Given that, I don't see why a Web browswer oughtn't be a legitimate OS componenent -- just look at KDE, where nearly any window can be a Web browser, it seems:)
I'm not saying that a modern OS should of necessity have a Web browser, only that the DOJ isn't allowing enough room for ambiguity by defining OS and Web browser as irreconcilably different, when I don't think they have to be -- in fact, look at all the ways that people are planning to use / already using Mozilla. Definitions shift, tools get used differently, the impossible becomes the ordinary ... I think allowing oversight and market division by the government just sets some dangerous precedent.
I'm saying all this with a sense of wonderment rather than zealotry; I'd just rather seem companies succeed or fail on their merits and faults ... MS certainly would have plenty to worry about without masked men at the gate with guns -- no, wrong story;)
timothy