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Stephenson On His Novel In Progress 137

Posted by Hemos from the words-from-the-authorman dept.
Nathaniel Wice writes: "The latest newsstand issue of TIME Digital includes a Lev Grossman interview with Neal Stephenson but the full text is online. Lev tries to push Stephenson on how he feels about the sci-fi ghetto, yielding my favorite line: Stephenson says the best-selling Cryptonomicon was 'an experiment... Can you make a Unix systems administrator into a fictional character who people will find compelling?' There's also some hints about his 'related' follow-up, Quicksilver."
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Stephenson On His Novel In Progress More

Stephenson On His Novel In Progress

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  • Can you make a Unix systems administrator into a fictional character who people will find compelling?

    Sure you can, make it

    1) a good looking women Unix systems administrator

    2) the server room is hot, really hot, she has to take her shirt off just to work on the cluster

    3) see kills the evil bad guys (ie: suits) with heavy machine guns and high explosives

    4) To relax at the end of the day she has multi good looking women freinds join her naked in the hot tub.

  • I'm enjoying "The Cuckoo's Egg" by Cliff Stoll right now..

    Cliff Stoll is EVIL.

    But I don't imagine a lot of TeleTubbies fans would dig it..

    They might like a video of Cliff Stoll having gay sex with TeleTubbies in John Markoff's apartment.

    ObStephenson: I liked reading Cryptonomicon partly because people on the "Secret Admirers" list reminded me of actual cypherpunks and assorted nuts. I can't even remember the name of that nut lawyer who goes berserk at the end with a bow and arrow, but he reminds me of L. Detweiler with his "pseodospoofing" conspiracy rants.

  • You forgot the witty repartee from the agin male lead old enough to be the female sa's grandpa

    aml: How do I create a blank file?

    fsa: touch

    aml: What, I need to create a blank file named myboobs

    fsa: easy, touch myboobs

    The XXX dialog uses finger

    George

  • Story Time (Score:4)

    by GPierce ( 123599 ) on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @05:12PM (#1018994)
    A Unix System Administrator was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess." He bent over, picked up the frog, and put it in his pocket.

    The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week." The Unix System Administrator took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it, and returned it to the pocket.

    The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I'll stay with you and do anything you want." Again, the Unix System Administrator took the frog out, smiled at it, and put it back into his pocket.

    Finally, the frog asked, "What's the matter? I've told you that I'm a beautiful princess, that I'll stay with you for a week, and that I'll do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?" The Unix System Administrator said, "Look, I'm an Unix System Administrator. I don't have time for a girlfriend; but a talking frog, now that's cool!"

  • that's why!
    -russ
  • NS stated in his book "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE COMMAND LINE" that he used the Debian distribution of Linux. Though I haven't ever used Debian, I have heard from several sources that it is "Expert-friendly". This could explain NS's comment about Linux requiring lots of technical support.

    IV

  • Such a misleading statement (Score:4)

    by / ( 33804 ) on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @05:21PM (#1018997)
    It's like when JWZ said "Linux is only free if your time is worth nothing."

    I have always hated that quote for a bunch reasons:

    1) It completely ignores the difference between "free"="libre" and "free"="gratis", which is an important one. More importantly, however...

    2) It leads the uncritical observer to conclude that only linux suffers from this problem -- it is just as true that a "retail value $99" piece of closed-source software costs $99 only if your time is worth nothing because...

    3) Both closed-source and open-source software alike require upkeep by the user; and in fact, since there often aren't as many bugs, open-source software requires less maintenance. Which is made worse by the fact that...

    4) When an open-source program needs maintenance in order to work properly, the solution is usually to fix it directly in the source, in which case the problem is solved permanently and the time spent coding has actually generated something of value that remains with the user thereafter (and usually is given back to the community). In contrast, tending software like Windows is like throwing money into a hole in the ground, since the problem is usually never truly solved and will require an equivalent amount of work in the future. And don't forget that closed-source bugfixes are often charged for and encourage endless upgrade cycles.

    I could go on, but hopefully you see the point.

  • Neal Stephenson's "In The Beginning, Was The Command Line..."

    http://www.themacjunkie.com/arc hives/6.5.00.ms.html [themacjunkie.com]
  • Has anyone else read 'The Big U'?

    I didn't think it was nearly as good as his other books, but it was quite amusing.

  • > I totally agree - Neal, if you're listening,
    > please explain why your novels are great down to > the last chapter or two. The endings are always
    > kind of non-conclusive/too formulaic.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Blasphemy!!

  • oh, man, you are so wrong (Score:3)

    by denshi ( 173594 ) <toddg@math.utexas.edu> on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @05:56PM (#1019001) Homepage Journal
    Cryptonomicon had a great ending. The others I'm not so sold on, but they aren't as bad as the majority of drivel that makes its way into a hard binding.

    The ending to Cryptonomicon was subtle.. moreover, it emphasized the continuation of the characters life, rather than the standard "and everyone lived either happily ever after, or in an appropriately fitting physio-emotional state congruent to the moral lesson of this text; thank you for reading, and for your $24.99". (As a humorous bonus, Randy throws in a few lines about how he doesn't really like the looks of his future; and he'd prefer a 'happy-ever-after' himself)

    Doug's resolution was great too, what with his fragmented tale of his father being appropriately broken up by helicopter noise; and I sort of got the point that he never knew his dad, and he followed his own path, but just the same he's going to try to tie the lessons from his father into his own great achievements, eg, Golgotha.

    The book was great, and how would you have ended it? It felt kind of like reading a history book, what with the hordes of people dying and information lost, for usually no good reason.
    So I dug the quiet moment at the end, where Randy sees the stream of gold; it made me sort of subjective to all the characters who were involved in Golgotha, whose stories we read, but IRL, no one would.

    I dunno, you can read the ending several ways; which these days is how I define good fiction. (of course, you can read most tech documentation several ways; that is obviously a Bad Thing.)

    I've ranted enough for now, but it seems most readers have something against non-conclusive fiction. So I draw from the film library to give a memorable example:

    It's too bad she won't live -- but then again, who does...
  • Christopher Walken and Willem Dafoe tried their hand at filming Gibson's New Rose Hotel. (It's out on video now.) Not too bad but not thrilling either. Too much playing with camera to fill time. Their greatest success was in creating a depressing ambiance.
  • (WARNING: I am holding back nothing...not even major plot spoilers)

    > a) Can't write a sex scene well at all (yet
    > insists on doint it)

    Well certainly Henry Miller he aint. However, I think he gets the point across, even if they arn't the most uhm "intgeresting"...tho you will notice none of his book shave bare chested men on the front either.

    > b) Has so much trouble with the end on his
    > stories.

    Here I definitly agree. I read both Snow Crash and cryptonomicon (not in that order) and really enjoyed both books, but the endings really sucked.

    In fact, I noticed around page 600 that the ending wasn't going to be very good. 2/3rds of the book were gone and some major pieces of plot development hadn't even happened yet. It was obvious that they would be very rushed and underdeveloped.

    I do see what he was doing, contrasting the life of the characters ancestors with them, as the stories of their lives converge into one story. It was very clever (if not totally original, its a theme that has been used before...tho what hasn't?). However, this format really makes the book lengthen...and that made it obvious that 300 pages wasn't going to be enough to wrap the book up, and it wasn't.

    I really would have liked to see more development and detail on Randy's relationship with Amy. (which was obviously comming from their first meeting). Also the ending itself....they melt the gold....it seems like he just said "Oh, time to end it now....quick and dirty solution".

    SNow crash had some of the same problems...lots of buildup and doing this and that....all to a big fizzle. The ending just left me saying "Yea and?"

    Other than the endings, I have really enjoyed his books. They are entertaining and thought provoking, he does know how to get a story started off and going. My favorite so far has to be the begining of Snow Crash with the "Delivorator"....that was just great.

  • Bastard Operator From HELL

    Basically a Unix tech support engineer type person that has fun with his users. Try searching google for it, pretty funny.

  • programming authors (Score:4)

    by Mr. Slippery ( 47854 ) <tms&infamous,net> on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @07:01AM (#1019005) Homepage

    From the interview:

    You must be one of the few novelists in history ever to have a background in computer programming.
    Vernor Vinge leaps to mind...who else? Surely most of the physicists who've written SF (Brin, Sagan, Benford, et. al.) probably at least cobbled together a few lines of FORTRAN over the years.

  • The ashes didn't do anything either except clog my needle.

    That's because you got the FREEBASE version of Cryptonomicon. You're supposed to SMOKE that, dumbass!

    You need to get the "black tar" version of Cryptonomicon, but it's only available from Tijuana dealers and is such a total copyright infringement that it's a felony even to know it exists.

  • The Answer is 'yes'. Ever heard of the BOFH?
    Are you so sure that the BOFH is fictional? B-)
  • I agree that it's difficult to convey a lot in a sound bite, and I'm not flaming him for it, it just seems like a bit of FUD.

    I think there's a big difference between ease of use and ease of maintenance/upgrade/fixing. If my mom and/or dad got a computer fresh out of the box with a Linux build, all the applications they need, they would have no problems running it. They would have problems upgrading it, but they can point and click as well as the next person. As it is, they have Windows, and Windows is neither stable nor predictable. They often require technical assistance when something has crashed, or Word won't start, or the printer isn't doing what it's supposed to, etc. The big difference is that they don't use the internet to get support, they use me and my sister for our knowledge or they'll buy a book.

    Saying that Linux is more difficult to use or support than Windows isn't quite correct. Most people are just used to the quirks and difficulties of Windows.
  • and I LOVED Cryptonomicon.. gotta love the
    three plus pages he spends on describing the
    Cap'n-Crunch-eating-algorithm that the main character uses when he's in the Phillipines... plus a great storyline linking WWII with the post-modern drama surrounding the data haven Avi and Co. are constructing..

    I'm looking forward to getting Snow Crash and Diamond Age... and also The Cuckoo's Egg by Stoll.. my first boss recommended it to me some years ago, but I have yet to go out and grab it..

  • Marvin Minsky - Well, he wrote a book along with Harry Harrison called "The Turing Option".
    Ugh. I was trying to forget that one.

    I can't bear to throw out books, so I just hid it somewhere in the back of the house.

  • I'm very impressed with Stephenson's grasp of technology -- he's clearly someone who uses technology, who's been up to his elbows in it.

    But good lord, the man is practically Rush Limbaugh's towel boy. His treatment of women is beyond pathetic. In Cryptonomicon he attempts a defense of Manifest Destiny (you remember -- the idea that it's ok for white Christians to commit genocide, because North America was given to them by God), presenting it as the only alternative to a straw-man mindless cultural relativism that holds that all cultures are equivalent. WTF? As if to underline this point, the only Nipponese characters in the book that aren't murderers and rapists have to reject their own culture and convert to Christianity.

    I haven't read a more polemic book, or a book with more unrealistic and one-dimensional villains since Atlas Shrugged.

    He can tell a good story, and his treatment of technology is great, but Stephenson also requires that his readers have a frontal lobotomy.
  • I think that while _Snow Crash_ and _Diamond Age_ are great novels just could use a better endings. Cryptonomicom was interesting but the ending after 900 pages was the worst ever written, there was no ending it just kinda stopped. His other books actually have endings and are much more of a fun read namely _Zodiac_ and _Interface_ (which is my personal favorite, ghost written as Stephen Bury) are absolutely fantasic novels with good endings that are even exciting and related to the story. _Zodiac_ is about an ecologist that tools around Boston Harbour is a Zodiac (rubber raft) the tech is bio-chem which I don't have much ionterest in but he makes it fun end exciting and way funny. In the back it claims that he went to U Michigan to study Physics, this book proves that it was really Boston University and chemistry. _Interface_ which he supposedly wrote with his uncle last name Jewsbury (or something like that) so they named the authour as Stephen Bury is possible his best book although not widely read. Its about a plot by some ILLUMINATI type characters who use a nueral network to cure a state governor after a stroke with the addition of a radio receiver so they can rewrite his political speeches in real-time as he runs for US president, absolutely fantastic ending which in more than you can say about his more famous books, the tech parts are quite as numerous by the sections about developing the neural network chip are pretty cool and there is plenty of action. The first thirty pages just describe an office and are every bit as interesting as the 5 page diatribe about the perfect bowl of Captin Crunch.

  • Damn! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I was all excited that this was about the long-awaited sequel to Treasure Island. You don't hear much from Robert Louis Stevenson these days.

  • Re:one dissenter (Score:3)

    by Jonathan ( 5011 ) on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @07:15PM (#1019014) Homepage
    It's important to remember that the viewpoint of characters in a novel is *not* always the viewpoint of the author. If you've read Zodiac, do you think Stephenson's a left-wing eco-terrorist as well as a right-wing dittohead?

    Secondly, in regard to WWII Japan, I don't think you can find much that wasn't true in Cryptonomicon. Rape, murder, and slave labor were all par for the course in the Japanese Empire. If I were a member of that culture, I could only hope I'd have the strength to reject it. (More likely, I'd simply try to ignore the evil around me and go about my business like everyone else, though)
  • By the way - I never heard anything about sales figures for Cryptonomicon or snow crash OR the diamond age. Were they pretty well accepted? Does anybody know if they were successful, or "mainstream" successful?

    I've read them all except the diamond age, and they kick ass. His writing has matured quite a bit through the progression of books.

  • Hate to be anal, but Reason was brought along by the mafia dudes wuth Hiro. He got it after they died. I belive that it was a rail gun of forms, also.

  • Re:Quicksilver : Very interesting title. (Score:3)

    by Jonathan ( 5011 ) on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @07:27PM (#1019017) Homepage
    Mercury also directly relates to cryptography 300 years ago because of John Wilkins' 1694 book on the subject "Mercury or the Secret and Swift Messenger".
  • Sure you can. The problem with the sci-fi / cyberpunk (sciberpunk?) scene is that, with notable exceptions such as Stephenson's Snow Crash, too much emphasis is put on the technology.

    So, write your own book :)

    Actualy, Gibson's books (who defined the type) don't really revolve around technology at all, there more about the effects of technology on society. He actualy wrote Neuromancer on a typewriter :P
  • In the middle of the interview, he says "The single most useful thing about the Internet is that it facilitates using Linux. To use Linux, you need so much goddamn technical information that if you don't have a really good source of technical support, you're just screwed."

    This kind of puts Linux in a bad light, don't you think? Here all these distributions are trying to make it look easy, and he's saying it takes an army of nerds to keep a system running. I think Stephenson's great as an author, but I think he's been ever so slightly off on his portrayal of computing, i.e. Linux as a tank in "In the beginning was the command line" essay.

  • To see how Neal really feels about Linux, Apple, BeOs, Windows, Unix, check out In the Beginning Was the Command Line [cryptonomicon.com], an essay that he wrote after Cryptonomicon.

    The pain text version of this posted there is plainful. Go read the full HTML/CSS version here [underground.ath.cx].
    ---

  • Re:It takes a village of tech support? (Score:5)

    by Bad Mojo ( 12210 ) on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @06:31AM (#1019021)
    Well, I would take it with a grain of reality. Linux is more difficult for most people out there to understand and work with. It's also his opinion about Linux in a very short, very shallow interview. It's like when JWZ said "Linux is only free if your time is worth nothing." I can't say I totally disagree with that idea. But the issue and intent are always more complex than a sound bite can ever convey.


    Bad Mojo [rps.net]
  • The book is available for free, via Project Gutenberg. Flatland, by Edwin Abbott [promo.net]
  • Thank you, somebody recognises what the 'punk' in cyberpunk means. It's not punk like the kids downtown, with their chains and torn jeans, an aesthetic, seedy, underworld kinda thing. It's not screaming 'FUCK THE MAN' for the sake of pissing somebody off. It's the way that the Western way of life is sucking the vitality out of culture. The way that the people running the show are trying to make us into cookie-cutter automatons. How we are becomming less and less able to change anything about our lives. In a way, I see the whole Free Software/Open Source thing a response to the way the computer industry has becom. But, just as punk, originally a lashing out again the whole idea of socially defined aesthic/cultural principals, became softened up, packaged and sold to the masses as a new and improved set of aesthetics, the Free/Open software model is going to become absorbed by BigBusiness and become just another way of raping the consumers and making money.
  • Funny thing is, I clicked on the link and was greeted by a blank page. Checked the source, and there's loads of Javascript code in it. Guess I won't be ready the article then. No way I'm enabling Javascript for something so trivial as a news article.
  • The books are just so damn good, you never want them to end. When I finished Cryptonomicon, I felt like a part of my life dissapeared! :)
  • Finish the book, and you'll understand :P
  • Are you seriously implying that you completely neglected to realise that that part of the story was told from a 1940's American's position? Of COURSE they're bigoted! Hey, most of them still are. Jeeze...
  • Sure you can, make it

    1) a good looking women Unix systems administrator
    2) the server room is hot, really hot, she has to take her shirt off just to work on the cluster
    3) see kills the evil bad guys (ie: suits) with heavy machine guns and high explosives
    4) To relax at the end of the day she has multi good looking women freinds join her naked in the hot tub.

    Well, it sounds like you've got some of the basic ideas of the Sandra Bullock film The Net, which, if you haven't seen yet, you should... consider yourself lucky. The worst movie I saw that year, tied with Species. But it does have the basic idea of a good looking sysadmin and bad guys with guns.

  • I think you'll probably find, upon rereading Gibson's Count Zero (the best, IMO) and Neuromancer, and Stephenson's Snow Crash, that the similarities between them are merely skin deep.
  • You do realise that there are better ways... :)
  • Vernor Vinge leaps to mind...who else?

    Rudy Rucker comes to my mind, he's a mathematician prof. at San Jose State University. He wrote (among others) the cyberpunk classic Software, [amazon.com] one of the short-lived steampunk genre, The Hollow Earth, cellular automata SF The Hacker and the Ants, [amazon.com] and a couple of popular mathematics books The Fourth Dimension [amazon.com] and Mindtools. He's also written a number of cellular automata programs (which is his area of expertise) and his webpage [sjsu.edu] indicates he teaches two programming classes.

    His books have some neat ideas but his characters all seem to devolve into the same loser / burnout type. According to his biography [sjsu.edu] he's working on an historical novel about Peter Bruegel which I look forward to as an interesting change. The fourth *ware book, Realware [amazon.com] just came out.

  • yep .. happened to me too. It would appear that for whatever reason my "old" account has been shutdown, as far as posting goes.
  • To see how Neal really feels about Linux, Apple, BeOs, Windows, Unix, check out In the Beginning Was the Command Line [cryptonomicon.com], an essay that he wrote after Cryptonomicon. You can download it for free from the web or purchase a printed form. He basically thinks it is bitchin' and indestructible. It is difficult to use, but well worth the effort. However, difficult does not make it impossible. The running analogy he uses is that Microsoft makes station wagons (as far as OS's are concerned) and Linux is like a high tech tank that is put together by a self-organizing group of individuals that try their hardest to convince the average user that they don't need a station wagon.

    The best quote from the essay is a fictional conversation between a potential user and a member of the Linux faithful...

    "The group giving away the free tanks only stays alive because it is staffed by volunteers, who are lined up at the edge of the street with bullhorns, trying to draw customers' attention to this incredible situation. A typical conversation goes something like this:

    Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!"

    Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!"

    Bullhorn: "You don't know how to maintain a station wagon either!"

    Buyer: "But this dealership has mechanics on staff. If something goes wrong with my station wagon, I can take a day off work, bring it here, and pay them to work on it while I sit in the waiting room for hours, listening to elevator music."

    Bullhorn: "But if you accept one of our free tanks we will send volunteers to your house to fix it for free while you sleep!"

    Buyer: "Stay away from my house, you freak!"

    Bullhorn: "But..."

    Buyer: "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"

    Priceless... =)

  • Re:yea (Score:1)

    by look ( 36902 )
    Sounds kinda like After Y2K [after-y2k.com]...the Techno-Talking Babes are pretty compelling...
  • Are you so sure that the BOFH is fictional? B-)

    Some people have claimed I'm the BOFH. Of course, I actually read support emails (and then flame the sender <g>).

    And I will emphatically state that I have never locked anyone in a tape closet until they suffocated. Because we don't have a tape closet where I work. :)
  • In case anyone hasn't read "Cryptonomicon [cryptonomicon.com]" yet (why not?!?), go check out the excerpt [cryptonomicon.com]. Bet it hooks you.

    This is truly a scifi story for geeks... What other tale in the world has had it's own Encryption Algorithym [counterpane.com] created just to lend plausability to the story?

    Stephenson has been criticized by some for getting to deep into the trivial details in his fiction, but personally that's why I read it.

    -Tommy

    P.S. It's good to see this story is back.

  • Just for the record, the name is Hofstadter. The book is brilliant as far as I got now. Which is page 100 in the Dutch-version.

    This link should get you to it:
    http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInqu iry.asp?userid=1LVTDTYNQK&mscssid=9S2XVG 9175SR2JLR00JP424CRB5K5JWC&srefer=&isbn=0465026567

  • Another cool Neuromancer movie tidbit...it's rumored that Aphex Twin will be doing the music.

    Damn, I'm drooling all over the keyboard in anticipation. Didgeridoo!

    Quick question as to the Aphex faces: What do you mean by That's Cunningham's design? I always thought it was just Richard D. James face plastered all over? What kind of design is involved in that?

  • > > Can you make a Unix systems administrator into > > a fictional character who people will find
    > > compelling?
    >
    > Oooh, maybe it'll transfer over into real life > and I'll have wild exciting adventures with > beautiful women and car chases.

    It hasn't already? The rest of us have been enjoying these perks ever since the book came out...
  • How do they say it in the ghetto... "my bad."

    Chalk that one up to sleep depravity.

    Levine
  • There is something to be savored from the actual, print copy of the book - namely, the many illustrations that, although not completely neccessary to understand what is going on, certainly help. ASCII just doesn't seem to cut it... but, in all fairness, it's better than nothing. Everyone - read this book! (.txt!) As someone once said about The People's History, "this book will knock you on your ass."

    Levine
  • I actually like his endings. they leave me with a sense that the characters' lives are going to continue past what we've just read. All the loose endings aren't tied up, but they aren't tied up in real life either. There's always something to worry about. There's always the next project. Besides, if all the loose endings are tied up what happens if you want to write a sequel?
    What I see that people don't like is that if Neal's books were like songs they wouldn't fade out in a refrain. They'd abruptly stop with a loud beat. Just BLAM!
    And I, for one, like it. It leaves you wanting more.
  • Aint that the truth..

    More and more websites require that Javascript be enabled as well as cookies be accepted, regardless which host sent them. Don't even ask for plain text versions of web sites.

    With so many broadband options available to so many people and now that marketing dopes have realized that some people are actually using the Internet, expect this to only get worse.
  • The fourth *ware book, Realware just came out.
    Fourth?! Dammit, I didn't know there was a third. My summer reading list keeps growing. And I'm starting to run out of bookshelf space.

  • Re: Stephenson (Score:3)

    by crumley ( 12964 ) on Thursday June 08, 2000 @04:06AM (#1019045) Homepage Journal
    Has anyone else read 'The Big U'?

    Yes, I read it and I think that its quite funny. Of course spending a lot of time at big research universities helps to get some of the inside jokes.

    I had the get the book from inter-library loan, since Stephenson refuses to let it be re-print. It was worth the effort, though.

  • I did check the link, and I did notice it was down, but it is the official link, so I left it. Hopefully it will be back up shortly. And who the hell is Ricky?

  • Stephenson (Score:5)

    by ajs ( 35943 ) <ajs.ajs@com> on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @12:41PM (#1019047) Homepage Journal
    I know this has been posted to previous N.S. threads, but check out this Stephenson article titled "In the Beginning was the Command Line" [cryptonomicon.com]. It gives a little more background on his thought process for a few of the things in this interview.
  • Read the book. It's a rather interesting ramble about user interface; Linux Journal slammed it for not really sticking to its message, but I'm not entirely certain it was supposed to have one in the first place.

    /Brian
  • Anyone whose read Cryptonomicon knows that 'quicksilver' (otherwise known as mercury) played a very interesting role in the plot.

    I find it curious that he's using this as the title for his next book, which is apparently going to be about Enoch Root and his Sect, pre-modern age. Still on the subject of cryptography, though...

    (Note, I haven't read the interview with Neal S. yet - just curious if anyone sees the significance in the title)...
  • It was almost an experiment, to see if it was theoretically possible: Can you make a Unix systems administrator into a fictional character who people will find compelling?

    I enjoyed Cryptonomicon in spite of Randy Waterhouse, not because of him. Randy's grandfather, Lawrence, is a compelling character. Bobby Shaftoe, Gunter Bischoff, et al are compelling characters.

    Randy, on the other hand, is a bland little fellow who could be redeemed only through death or excruciatingly painful torture. The Jar Jar Binks of Cryptonomicon...
  • Yes. However, the book goes on to say that Yes..it could be a punk with a Linux box. So to verify Randy ('the hacker guy')checks the whois info on eruditorum.org to see when it was registered.

  • Using a standalone PC is like riding a tricycle around the backyard, compared to connecting to a network (driving on the freeway).

    I don't think you'd expect a six year old kid to be able to drive a car. Likewise, some things about computing are Just Plain Hard.

    Programming, network management, security, protecting kids from <insert demon here>. These things are Hard Problems, and no amount of "Teach Yourself X in 24 hours for Anencephalic Walrusus" books can make it easy.

    The whole concept of "computers should be made easy" is bogus. Wiring your eletricity should be easy? Anyone should be able to drive a car without needing lessons? Organ Transplants For Dummies? Learn to diagnose your child's illness in 24 hours?

    Using computers can be made easier. Management and installation issues, very much less so.

  • hrm, this story was up a day ago, then it dissapeared.

    Now its back. strange.


  • Root was by far the best character! I found him to be the most compelling character. I remember reading an interview with him post-Cryptonomicon, and him hinting that some of your favorites will be in the next book or two, and I totally hope it's Root. Root And Bobby Shaftoe were by far the best characters....Shaftoe's morphine induced visions, I loved it.
  • 'an experiment... Can you make a Unix systems administrator into a fictional character who people will find compelling?'

    BOFH? [ntk.net] Pitr? [userfriendly.org]

    -(())

  • Re: Stephenson (Score:4)

    by tokengeekgrrl ( 105602 ) on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @02:14PM (#1019056)
    Not only is it a well-written essay, but it provides a very articulate and easy-to-follow explanation of the current computer technology developments. I bought a copy of it and gave it to my dad. If there's someone you know and love who wants an understanding of what it is geeks talk about, have them read In the Beginning was the Command Line.

    Quick sidenote, I have read Zodiac, Diamond Age, Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon, the latter 2 being my favorites, but have always been disappointed by the endings. I hope that Quicksilver is better in that regards.

    - tokengeekgrrl
    "The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions

  • Re:programming authors (Score:3)

    by mysta ( 67129 ) on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @02:16PM (#1019057) Homepage

    Just did a quick scan of my bookshelf and found:

    • Greg Egan - Aussie hard sci-fi writer and part time computer programmer. Check out some of his very cool applets at his home page [netspace.net.au]. They often act as alternate, animated covers for his books.
    • Marvin Minsky - Well, he wrote a book along with Harry Harrison called "The Turing Option". I'm sure Minsky has done some programming in his time. :)

    ObSycophant: Cryptonomicon is fantastic! No, really, it is. Read it now! Again!

  • "Most of it's written, I just have to finish it.

    While you're at it, go back and finish all the others, too.
    --
    Wanna hook MAPI clients to your Tru64/AIX/Linux server?

  • ooo (Score:1)

    by nomadic ( 141991 )
    Can you make a Unix systems administrator into a fictional character who people will find compelling?

    Oooh, maybe it'll transfer over into real life and I'll have wild exciting adventures with beautiful women and car chases.

    Maybe I better go start the development system backups as usual just in case it doesn't pan out.
  • Actually, Sagan was (by trade) an astronomer (and exobiologist.)
    You are correct and I hang my head in shame.
  • Ok, you need to examine the source of the quote and why it was said. JWZ said this in the early '90s when setting up Linux to do development work wasn't quick and painless. It also wasn't the best OS at the time to be writing apps for. So, in this sense, he was correct. His time was worth money and messing with Linux at the time was wasting his time. Not to mention that this is all HIS opinion from HIS experience.

    Nowadays he doesn't hold the same opinion from what I've heard. I go through all the trouble of explaining that soundbites are USELESS in a serious debate and yet you sit down and try to argue against a soundbite when you, obviously, didn't read my post or understand WHY or WHEN JWZ said what he did.

    Honestly, think before you post.


    Bad Mojo [rps.net]
  • quothe: Mercury also directly relates to cryptography 300 years ago because of John Wilkins' 1694 book on the subject "Mercury or the Secret and Swift Messenger". And the new novel takes place 3 centuries ago, and JWikins has been mentioned by Stephenson in the context of Cryptonomicon's 'universe'. Late 16th early 17th century - the stirrings of the industrial revolution, the hard sciences are starting to take form. The Bill of Rights was recent passed (in England). The British and French are fighting each other in North America. The Jacobites are still active. Peter the Great, Catherine I, Louis XV, Johnathan Swift, Blackbeard the pirate. This was the roots and foundation of the Age of Enlightenmen, the American Revolution, and other minor events. Should be interesting.
  • I enjoyed Cryptonomicon in spite of Randy Waterhouse...

    I agree. Randy Waterhouse is supposed to be an "everynerd" in the sense that most people think of nerds today (read: many slashdotters). In the book, he meets other types of nerds. For example:
    Amy Shaftoe = diving nerd
    Bobby Shaftoe = Marine Raider nerd
    Enoch Root = Philosophy nerd

    The book becomes interesting when Randy's horizons are broadened. The lesson: nerds need to cross-train! There's lots more hacking in the world that needs to be done than just at a computer. Take off that calculator-watch, chuck it in the South Pacific, and do something!

    --
    jvev atvf gurm rabs pern gvba

  • I agree. I make my living providing the back end user friendly experience people associate with the windows products they have on their desk. It basically boils down to my fixing it when it breaks. They have no idea, no clue where to begin, because to them it is not easy.

    This is not to rag on the end user. Because someone is a manager of 50 people and has daily tasks to get done, does not mean he should also know how to set up and troubleshoot his computer. Heck, that's why people specialize in this world. I am fine with that.

    The problem is that it creates the illusion that windows is stable and easy to use. Many of the people actually learn to use the software (ie navigate around its idiosyncracies) by watching and learning from other people using the same package. Probably the most bizarre and interesting conversations you can ever witness occur between a user of one office suite trying to coach someone through the use of different office suite (as rarely as that happens today). The conclusions they always come up with are wrong. They inevitably end up saying "This would be easier to do if you were using X office suite." That may or may not be true, but there verdict comes from not being able to navigate the particular idiosyncracies of the package they are trying to "help" with, not based on it technical merits.

  • At least for Cryptonomicon, you have to know that this is the first in at least a two part series. He has said that he couldn't fit the entire story into one volume because of binding limitations.

    I also like the way his endings go. They are definitely not pat. However, some of them are tied up better than others. When writing with his uncle (?) as Stephen Bury, he seems to do pretty good job. I just read _Interface_ and loved it (especially since it is an election year). It is sort of an updated Manchurian Candidate for the information age. I just got _Cobweb_ from the library and I am looking forward to reading it.

  • > At least for Cryptonomicon, you have to know
    > that this is the first in at least a two part
    > series. He has said that he couldn't fit the
    > entire story into one volume because of binding
    > limitations.

    I had thought that might be the case. I am glad to hear it. I know there was some vague mention of that in the cover blurbs but nothing definite.

    > I also like the way his endings go. They are
    > definitely not pat. However, some of them are
    > tied up better than others.

    Well as I said, I only read cryptonomicon and snow crash. I can't comment on others. However, everyone in the office who has read them complained about his endings, so im not alone :)

    Cryptonmicon seemed to have almost a corny ending. Just melt it all down right in the caves...this goes on without a hitch...no problem.

    I guess the whole thing from page 650 or so seemd very rushed to me, like he knew "I have to end this soon"...and let it influence the story too much.

    This goes as much for the ending as for Randy's time in jail...it wasn't a bad concept...it was actually fairly interesting...just that...the presentation in the story was kind of lame.

    Of course, knowing it was meant to be only half the story, does help....I hope the next book will develop some things a bit more.
  • Guess I'll have to read Zodiac. But re: Cryptonomicon, and authors vs. characters, I considered it quite a bit while reading the book. All the "killing Nips" stuff was obviously war-time mental training & perhaps a reflection of the era -- not actually expressing any biggotry toward Nipponese. But through the rest of the book it just doesn't fly. Having Randy do his Angry White Male rant is just characterization, up to the point where he's ranting to these cardboard academics who have no brain. Then it's not characterization -- if it were there'd be a real character for him to talk to -- rather, it's a Message.

    Similarly, we get the Message that feminists just want to be man-handled. That the Puritans were good, the 60's were bad, that the main villian was made evil by a 60's commune, etc., etc.

    The defense of Manifest Destiny shows up during the modern-day story (not characterizing the 40's) from one of the great thinkers in the book. And the conversion of the Nipponese character is a plot element, not just characterization.

    In short, if the plot conforms to the biases of the characters it's not just characterization anymore -- it a statement about the nature of things.

    Thanks for the tip on Zodiac. I'll check it out.
  • Your response misses both the spirit (as an aside) and the substance of my post. Do you always criticize everyone who takes the time to articulate why he agrees with you? You make me sad.

    Honestly, think before you insult people.

    And while you're at it, check the "no score +1 bonus" button when posting such followups, as I have done. It's a privilege, not a trophy.
  • His treatment of women is beyond pathetic. In Cryptonomicon he attempts a defense of Manifest Destiny (you remember -- the idea that it's ok for white Christians to commit genocide, because North America was given to them by God), presenting it as the only alternative to a straw-man mindless cultural relativism that holds that all cultures are equivalent. WTF?

    All cultures that currently exist were built on the spoils of war - rape, theft & murder. The american indian tribes were doing a good job of killing and enslaving one another before the white man showed up to enslave & kill them. The europeans simply had better military tactics, were better organized, etc.

    Now. Am I using it as a justification and saying that it's the only correct course and that there couldn't possibly be a better way of doing things? No. But what I am saying is that what the europeans came over and did to the "native" culture isn't a whole lot different (except in terms of scale) from what the "natives" were doing to themselves and one another already.

    I haven't read Cryptonomicon so I can't address your specifics, but I have read Snow Crash and Diamond Age, and there are plenty of strong female characters to choose from among those books. Perhaps you are confusing the opinions of the author with the opinions of his characters?

    -The Reverend
  • I've got shivers every time I read it.

    Wonder how it's going to look in Polish translation.


    --
  • Just read the Register. Simon (the original author of BOFH) writes a continuing BOFH story for them every week or so. He hasn't lost it, though the waffle iron bit _was_ good.

  • Actually, Sagan was (by trade) an astronomer (and exobiologist.)

  • I agree. One of my favorite parts of Cryptonomicon is when he was describing the mechanics of Turing's bicycle with the bad link and broken spoke.

    Of course, I had just finished a course on modern algebra, and was sort of hoping he would prove a couple of relevant theorems from group theory, so maybe I am just nuts.
  • He's been asked this. I had the opportunity to see him in Boston when he was hawking the book (which I'd already read, but got autographed)

    IIRC it's because if he had had the characters use Linux, PGP, etc. then he'd have to describe them accurately. He gained more freedom in his writing (while still letting everyone who knew what they were know that he knows too) by having Finux, Ordo, ETC, etc.
  • If I remember correctly Snow Crash was a bestseller and I think Cryptonomicon went on to be one as well.

  • It's just too bad that he...

    a) Can't write a sex scene well at all (yet insists on doint it).

    b) Has so much trouble with the end on his stories.

    I really like his books though. But they all end really poorly. Except maybe for DiamondAge. I'm having trouble remembering the ending of that one.
  • but Ican't figure out what GEB is. Drop us a clue?

  • Come on, you have to admit that it was cool when Keanu plugged RAM doubler into the back of his head so that he could store more information in there!
  • Why would quicksilver not have any relevance 300 years ago? Many occultists, high priests and philosophers of that period believed that mercury (quicksilver) had special 'mystical' properties. I wouldn't find it to hard to comprehend that it's being used in interesting ways in the next book for encryption purposes - just maybe not electrically...
  • I'm just bummed that I had to deal with a stupid "Subscribe to Time Digital!" popup window when I Backed off of their site. Felt like I had gotten lost and ended up on GeoCities or some porn site...at least, I've HEARD that porn sites have that sort of thing...*grin*

  • The answer... (Score:3)

    by SupahVee ( 146778 ) <superv AT mischievousgeeks DOT net> on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @06:33AM (#1019087) Journal
    Can you make a Unix systems administrator into a fictional character who people will find compelling?'

    The Answer is 'yes'. Ever heard of the BOFH? 'nuff said :-)

  • as easily as she can use Windows?

    I think that is the point Stephenson is making, and I agree with him.

    The distros are trying to make it easier, but it's not there yet, and you shouldn't deny it.

    George
  • Whoa, lost a whole two points of Karma on that one. That was a suprise eh? Fortunately I've got more to burn.

    And you know what: That posting did *not* deserve to be pounded down. I said two things of substance, which I'd be glad to defend if discussions on slashdot were capable of lasting longer than two rounds: (1) Time magazine's characterization of "Snow Crash" as "prescient" is ridiculous... maybe it'll turn out that way, but writing about computer networks before everyone got into Netscape doesn't count as "prescient" (2) The book itself doesn't say much about the net that wasn't said by Gibson.

    I would also be willing to defend the point that the book is slanted at the slash-baby crowd. Where Gibson borrowed riffs from noir-fiction, Stephenson worked from video games and comic books.

    I make the further point that slashdot moderators are *awful*: moderators are *not* supposed to pound something down just because they disagree with it.

  • Nowadays he doesn't hold the same opinion from what I've heard.

    Huh? Linux is somewhat easier to use these days, but it's still only free if your time has no value. Which is to say that it's not free at all. That hasn't changed, and won't. You can spend your time playing sysadmin, or you can hire someone to do it for you. If you do it yourself, you ain't getting those hours back!

    And anyone who says you don't need to be (or have) a qualified sysadmin to use Linux is, in a nutshell, wrong.

  • Seems like the interviewer has a pretty narrow definition of Science Fiction - since when are Sci-Fi and Historical-Fi separate entities ??

    And more specifically, didn't he read The Diamond Age?? If this wasn't Historical Fiction on exponential levels, I don't know what is ....

    Then again, seems like Neal himself forgot he wrote Diamon ... too bad -- still borderline-essential Sci-Fi reading ....

  • Nice question... (Score:3)

    by Travoltus ( 110240 ) on Wednesday June 07, 2000 @02:51PM (#1019105) Journal
    Can you make a Unix systems administrator into a fictional character who people will find compelling?

    Sure you can. The problem with the sci-fi / cyberpunk (sciberpunk?) scene is that, with notable exceptions such as Stephenson's Snow Crash, too much emphasis is put on the technology.

    It's like those Harlequin novels - it's cyber hokey, the scene generally lacks dimension. The same problem plagues the romantic novel genre, and especially adult entertainment. The same thing can be found in 'action' films. All guns and explosions, and little of anything else. One-dimensional stories suck, no matter what - even sciberpunk stories.

    As for the question, well, now that I've provided my own version of a solution, let me give you a scenario as an example of how to apply it (hey I'm starting to sound like a real blowhard here, hehe):

    Let's say this sytsem administrator's life revolves around computers. Why not explore what got him into computers? You'd have to look into his heart and see what enamored him to this hobby, people do this in stories all the time, it adds dimension to the character. Maybe he admires the consistent behavior of computers, maybe he is avoiding the treacherous pit of snakes that is what we call the 'modern American social life'. Maybe he's about to learn some social skills and come out of his shell - or maybe he is about to open someone's eyes to the 'romance' and excitement he enjoys in pursuit of his work. Explore that. Or why not make this guy a well-rounded character? Think outside the one-dimensional box. That would grab people's attention.

    Why not put this Unix systems administrator in a whole new world that you've built? Or in a version of this world? Paint some elaborate scenery around him - throw in culture, religion, politics, and social issues. Don't just trap him in front of a keyboard and base a story on the premise that he is saving the world in 101 keys or less.

    I think Neal Stephenson's writings represent a good example of an affirmative answer to that question. Snow Crash's Hiro Protagonist, and especially his partners in crime Juanita and YT, were multi dimensional characters. Juanita, heck, she was an expert on religion and Sumerian culture.

    BTW: Who else besides me was wowed by that Snowcrash line "Jack the sound barrier. Bring the noise" ?

    (Now all the Neal Stephenson haters are gonna kill me. Hooboy. Fan wars. I'm outta here. Ciao!)


    ========================
    63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
    ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,
  • And make money fast while you do it!

    Actually, I'm not done with it yet, but what I have done is posted on the web [iastate.edu].

    My guess is that a lot of the people reading this thread are into sci-fi/cyberpunk, and I'd be curious to see what you guys think (Keep in mind that it's a rough draft). I only have about 20 pages or so written, but most of the people who've read it said it was ok, or at least, not that bad.

    I hope this isn't entirely offtopic, at least :). Oh, and I was lying about the money.
  • I stand corrected.

    I won't argue that to get the full value of using Linux, you need to be a sysadmin. But to say that will never change is a bit short sighted IMO. If Caldera has its way, Linux will come in a distro easier to use than Windows. There are questions about its usefulness, but that's a dead horse of a different color to beat later.


    Bad Mojo [rps.net]

  • Bobby Shaftoe = Marine Raider nerd

    "Marine Raider nerd"?? WTH????

    The closest thing to a Marine Raider nerd I've ever seen is William Manchester -- maybe.

  • you could at least have done the whole quote:

    How does an UNIX Guru have Sex ?
    unzip ; strip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep

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