I Want to Blow Up Silicon Valley 142
RomulusNR writes: "Salon has a story and review on "I Want To Blow Up Silicon Valley", a new indie film by a pre-tech-explosion SV resident. The place was a quiet backwoods small town when he was a kid; he comes back to find his home worth $2 million, his childhood hangouts filled with uber-wired techies, and all the unique local towns becoming one big bland electronic megalopolis."
One thing... (Score:5)
-Antipop
been done (Score:3)
kick some CAD [cadfu.com]
Is silicon valley that big anymore? (Score:2)
love story??? (Score:2)
is this what CmdrTaco does in his spare time?
Oy...flashback (Score:1)
I know I feel a hell of a lot better now that I'm back outside of the rush.
Nature Calls (Score:1)
I'm all alone in my concrete jungle, surrounded by cat 5 and bathed in radiation from my crts.
My life is ?
House worth $2 mil, hangouts full of techies? (Score:1)
There's parts of Troy and Schenectady that will go down with but a firecracker anyway ;-)
s/nerd/boss/
Re:One thing... (Score:1)
The title alone (Score:5)
---
And on the other coast (Score:1)
Blow her up... (Score:3)
times change deal with it. (Score:2)
Some day we will all be sitting around whining about how nice it was when the Internet was new, because you could do anything. Now there are so many regulations and rules. Capitalism ruined the Internet. We'll all be saying that in about 2 years. Or we will all be living in coutries that aren't so wacked like the U.S.
It's unfair to hard-working dot-commers! (Score:2)
Honestly, the jealousy is getting hard to bear. Just the other day I was in a boutique market, offering to buy the tres-quaint lampshade behind the counter of the seafood counter. A surly pissant engaged in cutting up fish looked at me and said "I bet you're one of those dot-commers!"
Of course I had to find the manager after that - paid $2000 to have the prick fired, too. That will teach him to open his mouth.
Hilarious (Score:2)
Is that ironic or what?
--
hmmm (Score:4)
Now for a side-rant:
I understand the director's contempt for the cappucino-swilling, Armani-wearing "New Economy" type. Personally, I'm waiting for the shakedown to hit. I could understand if most of these noveau riche were engineers or scientists or financial types (whatever else you may say about the latter, it does require some amount of skill), but a lot of them tend to be the marketing and PR hacks who have no real knowledge or skills, but still manage to eke out six figure incomes by slinging buzzwords around like confetti.
the Bay Area wanted this (Score:2)
People who move to SV do so because that's where the jobs in their field are. Not jobs to get rich, just "the jobs". Most of us would much rather be elsewhere, in well planned communities, with decent public transportation, out of the way of earthquakes, and not driving along a ridiculously inconvenient peninsula.
So, here is my message to long time SV residents: I'm sorry that your neighborhood got destroyed. But that was your choice, or at least your political inaction. Be happy that you can sell your home, move to a nice little community along the coast that's like the Bay Area used to be, and never have to work another day in your life. The rest of us have to pay high mortgages and make the best we can with the mess you left us. Believe me, we'd rather be somewhere else, too.
Finally, someone wrote my story (Score:1)
This is the movie I have been waiting for. It even has the back roads that I love and ride every day to work. I knew the place was going to go to hell when the local newscasts changed their taglines to "...from the best place on earth."
The worst thing by far, besides the traffic, is it is literally impossible to exist in public places and not overhear a conversation about real estate or stock options. Maybe in a spanish speaking neighborhood you can pull it off.
How do I deal with it? I live in the mountains, ride a motorcycle, use FreeBSD and work for M$.
;-)
ha ha, only serious...
--
#!/usr/bin/perl
use asbestos;
Turning Traitor (Score:5)
I don't mind the long-time, pre-Internet "Revolution" people complaining about the changing landscape of the Bay Area ... but I can't tolerate the so-called "noveau riche" who benefitted immensely from the Revolution (when IPOs still POPPED) and are now opponents of development projects that are necessary to sustain the economic growth in the Valley.
Case in point: Stanford University owns quite a bit of the land at the heart of Silicon Valley and was proposing to use some of it to develop new graduate student (and young faculty) housing. Presently, the university does not have enough on-campus housing spots (graduate students routinely get 'booted' off-campus) and off-campus housing is prohibitively expensive. Ironically, the biggest opposition for this new development came from people owning houses in the nearby area ... a huge chunk of whom are either Stanford faculty or recently enriched Internet tycoons. Their biggest complaint? Development may harm the aesthetic and/or comercial value of their homes.
Give me a break, haven't they figured out that it was Stanford (and grudgingly give a nod to Berkeley) graduate students who helped fuel their recent gains? If they want to maintain the local boom, they had better make sure Stanford/Berkeley can keep attracting the best and brightest. Don't want to give MIT/Route 128 a chance to catch up and regain their early lead ...
If you don't believe me about this disturbing trend, go to any of the trendy Silicon Valley hang-outs and eavesdrop on the conversation of many of these VC/IPO types. At one point in the evening, you'll most likely hear something like "God, the Valley is getting so tacky. We really need to constrain development ..."
(This is sort of like the phenomenon observed by many sociologist of how many of the strongest proponent of strict immigration laws are the newer citizens)
Wow.. Couldn't have put it more accurately.. (Score:1)
Heck, there will probably be movies about the "early 'net days" back when you could host whatever you wanted on your own website.
I think I'd put the number at about 6 years total, with some horrid precedent-setting item happening at year 3.
www.sheepdot.org
I want to blow up silicon valley.... (Score:3)
The people that live anywhere now got no right to bitch...at least Steve Jobs didn't force the natives to convert to "Macism" - Just a little perspective.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Here's the obligatory link (Score:2)
Now when's it going to be screened in, say, Silicon Valley?
Hard-working dot-commers are 99% FRAUDS. (Score:1)
Re:love story??? (Score:1)
You're entering a world of pain, Smokie.
I don't understand (Score:1)
Is he a Macintosh user?
-D
Yes it is. (Score:2)
There's a word for stuff like this (Score:3)
There's a phrase to describe things like this: Cultural Necrophila. Cultural Necrophila is committed by espousing how much better life was before X, where X is some arbitrary event (ie. "before the Internet was big", "before Clinton was president", "before the Vikings found North America"). It is slightly less productive than actual Necrophilia, and almost as tasteless. But, it must be part of human nature, because I'd bet that if decipher most Neanderthal cave paintings, they probably say "Things were better before the Cro-Magnons showed up. Now the land is expensive, they're making trails all over the place, and they're killing all the mammoths."
He would have to be old... (Score:1)
If we credit Apple with realy starting silicon valley, (they were around before Sun) then its because Steve and Steve were from silicon valley to begin with! Ok, maby it wasent silicon valley, but aerospace valley (or prehaps Place-where-nasa-spent-a-lot-of-moon-money valley), but the writing was on the wall. IBM has had plants there for decades, as did (the startup) Intel - ship jumpers from Shockley.
It was always big, now its just bigger.
Re:Finally, someone wrote my story (Score:1)
You might not hear the amount of adult conversation you'd like in those neighborhoods. The inhabitants will be away working an inordinate amount of time.
I've worked with campaigns supporting workers like food service workers or janitors here in the Valley, focusing on Stanford. These jobs are worked mostly by mexicans or blacks; the wages the unionized workers make are below what is considered to be a living wage for the Bay Area, forcing people to do things like house themselves with multiple families in one apartment, take multiple jobs, and so on.
Yeah, the recent deal the janitor unions made has helped them some. But still, costs have increased here far more rapidly than the wages of the people who provide these essential services.
Was there... now not... (Score:1)
Bay Area. Palo Alto, Menlo Park, San Jose, Oakland, you name it. Lived in San Francisco up until 1997. Moved to Chicago, just for a change, a little diversity in life. I come back and visit every couple of months. And every couple of months I realize more and more what a gentrified dot-com
shit hole it has all turned into. San Francisco,
a once interesting place, is now the land of
uber-hip urban condos and working-class
displacement. It's my home, but I don't think I'll
ever live there again. Maybe the California
countryside. Maybe.
When allt he clubs close, because the yuppie MBA
dot-commer who bought the gut-rehab loft next
door complains about the noise... when the people
who work in service industries can no longer
afford to live in the city they work in, let alone
any of the suburbs, something is wrong.
I don't want to blow up Silicon Valley, but I do
wish most of the people would go home. Just so
when I go home it won't be so... lame. Hang up
your cell phone, and just go away.
Re:There's a word for stuff like this (Score:2)
Re:Finally, someone wrote my story (Score:1)
Silicon Valley is the shining example of the failure of capitalism, capitalism gone awry. The difference between communism and capitalism? You know when communism has failed.
Methinks someone needs to smack the stock-option millionaire MBA types and remind them of where they came from, where they could be going, and upon whose backs they are making all of thier money.
"If the only way to judge success is through cash flow, then I don't know. I can do anything with my life but I probably won't." -- SF band Grotus, "Hand Job" from Mass (London Records)
Re:the Bay Area wanted this (Score:4)
So what happened? The military contractors pulled out in the late 80's and early 90's. The city and county governments, over the LOUD objections of the residents, basically went on a no holds barred campaign to attract new industry to the region. When they realized that they had a fledgling industry right under their own noses, they latched onto it and did their best to support and expand it. And the result? The Silicon Valley land boom of the early to mid 90's. People attracted to the industry moved here, and they needed to build new homes. The government did EVERYTHING they could to support this, despite what their constituents wanted. Heck, a guy I went to high shool with used to live on a large ranch off of 85 just south of town (well, back then anyway). His family had owned the land since the late 1800's, but modern development moved up to the edge of the property and builders really wanted to get a hold of it. When he refused to sell the county did something that floors me to this day...they declared imminent domain on his land so that they could build a school and park on it. After the county had claimed the land and deeded it to the city they convieniently realized that they didn't have the money to build a school or park, and put the land up for sale. Today tract homes cover the land that we used to ride horses and hunt frogs on. Of course, here's the most disgusting thing: Nine years ago they were paid $400,000 for three acres of land that is worth several hundred million today.
Now please don't tell me that people wanted this. The Silicon Valley has an ugly history that most new residents don't want to hear about, and it was all ushered in by fairly corrupt government officials. And me? I went into programming and made quite a bit of money, which I used to move over to the Central Valley. That's not home for me anymore...it's an ugly megalopolis full of never ending strip malls and people who profess their faith for protecting nature, while never acknowledging what they helped destroy. Don't get me wrong...I don't begrudge the people who live there today, it's just kind of sad to see what's happened to the area.
It worse than it sounds (Score:1)
What's worse than all the malls now being filled with wannabee dotcommers, is that San Jose, and it's burbs, have grown past the charming cherry orchard towns they were. Now the corner stores, where I remember getting ice cream with my family, are now dumps, with vacant store fronts and gang graffiti.
SJ has always been envious of San Francisco, but now it's larger, just as powerful, and gaining recgonition. However, with all that comes the drawbacks of being a larger city.
I'm looking forward to getting out of school, hopefully finding a job I can telecommute to, and, sadly, moving away from the only home I know. Even if housing prices weren't what they are, I would still move.
I live in the Silicon Valley, Not many complaints (Score:1)
Re:It worse than it sounds (Score:1)
And they are gone. Makes me sad.
Re:One thing... (Score:2)
---------------
22 yr-old comp eng living in SV (Score:1)
First things first, read the review of the movie, the movie sounds like it gives an accurate, albeit fictitious view of the Valley.
How did I get here? Well, I sent out resumes to companies I was interested in. I'm from the midwest and I never thought they'd pick me out of the crowd. For me, this is the ultimate job at the coolest company (IMO) in the Valley.
This may be the best and worst place you'll ever live.
From a working standpoint, you'll be in heaven. Some of the most talented people in the world are here. You'll love your job. Outside of work is a different story.
SV is a melting pot of cultures from all over the world. I work with people from every continent (except Antarctica, duh). It is wonderful learning about life in other parts of the world. That is one of the best aspects of the Valley. It is also one of the worst. There are endless opportunities for computer scientists and engineers here. The problem is that increasingly those are the only people who have opportunites here. People in other fields, even those highly respected in other parts of the nation, have a hard time making a living. Almost every person I meet is not a native of the area. The area is losing its links to its past. It has no soul. The worst thing are the people here only to make money, not those who are here for the love of engineering and innovation. Don't get me wrong, we all like to make money and live well, myself included, but the love of money is making the valley an ugly place.
Well, it's hard to give an accurate description. I'm not so sure if it's people like myself (engineers moving to the valley) that are contributing so much to this problem as it is one ugly beast that moved in a few years ago ---
Is it wrong that I enjoy seeing
Oh, and another thing. Don't come to they valley expecting to find those "California Girls." They're not here. You will, however, find many lonely young men driving BMWs and Porsche Boxters (way too many, actually, they think the car makes up for social ineptitude).
My normal login is "warrior"
mdreesen@ "flame-away" cse.unl.edu
Mike
The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:5)
Moderators: this will be a very personal account. It may be offensive, provoke flames, and such, but, by goodness, it is fucking sincere. There is no (-1, Rant) option in the mod system, so please leave it as it is.
The Silicon Valley is a disgusting place. Believe me, I live in the very heart of it, as a grad student. I could care less about money; I just came here because I want to study what I like (Linguistics) with a bunch of amazingly talented people. I don't want to get rich quick, stock options, or a million dollar house, or to write software for search engines. I just want a postdoc somewhere after I'm done with my Ph.D., and a job as a prof. My perspective on SV is that of a grad student from another country, living in the Valley on $15k a year.
Here there's no sense of community, no care for the well-being of the local society, nothing. Just a bunch of money grubbing yuppies that like to boast about their success, and a bunch of poor mexicans, asians and blacks that keep it all together. I know this. I've worked a bit with the recent campaign to support the janitors' wage negotiations. I've met these people first hand. I've spoken with Mexican janitors, and they've told me in their own words, in Spanish, the language in which they dream and feel, how they live, how they are treated.
This society makes the janitors, who are truly *essential* to any society, invisible members. This is one of the most shocking things about SV for me. I mean, where I studied before (UPR), you knew the janitors, they worked the same hours you did, you'd talk to them, they'd have lunch with the secretaries and professors, and so on. Here in Stanford, the profs and secretaries don't speak the same language as the janitors; and more importantly, they don't work the same hours. The janitors work late shifts, starting around 8-9 PM, ending 2-3 AM. The people who work regular hours only see buildings that, seemingly by magic, clean themselves every night. They are totally disconnected from what keeps their workspaces functional.
Here's another story. Last time I went to SF (my easiest way of temporary escape), on the way back, I had the absolute misery of having to sit behind an asshole who bragged to a buddy about his work the whole fucking hour. He looked about my age (I'm 23), and did nothing but talk and talk (quite loudly) about how much of a fucking genius he was at doing Flash animations, how he wanted his boss' job, about how much better he was than the girl that was interning at his job, how much he was making, and how much of a success he was.
That very last bit was not my interpretation; I vividly remember the fucker uttering the words to his buddy: "You know what? I really feel like I'm a success." Here was a guy that, as far as his account showed, had done nothing in his life but stupid Flash animations. If he'd done something else in his life, he sure didn't mention it.
This idiot symbolizes for me what's wrong with the Valley: people making fortunes for what, when you come down to it, are just menial, unimportant jobs, people totally disconnected from the realities of social and communal life, and think themselves above everybody else. People who get easy money, and then just expect that just money will get them everything they want, with no idea about context (the building does not clean itself; the janitors clean it). They live their lives in front of a computer screen and lose contact with the very real world to which that computer is plugged.
I'll stop here because this is becoming less and less coherent.
Re:One thing... (Score:1)
well unfortunately, VC have controlling interest in most of his house.
The rest of the value must be devided up amongst the over priced CEO needed to take his house to the market and his stock broker...
Re:I want to blow up silicon valley.... (Score:1)
is the story of a "Native American" living in the 15th Century - who becomes really pissed off when he finds out his beloved home has been seized by another band of "Native Americans" invading from Nevada.
is the story of a "Native American" living in the 13th Century - who becomes really pissed off when he finds out his beloved home has been seized by another band of "Native Americans" invading from southern California.
The people that live anywhere now have as much right as the "Native American" to bitch; the "crimes" of his tribe are simply more recent. Humans have probably been slaughtering each other over territory since before we diverged from the stock that became the chimpanzee. (That is, both human and chimps bands both fight wars for territory; presumably this behavior dates back to when they were the same species, rather than being a convergent evolution post-divergence.)
Just a little longer perspective.
Re:love story??? (Score:1)
yawn (Score:1)
Re:Don't we all (Score:1)
Happening in other areas, too (Score:2)
Used to be you never heard of cities/towns like Lewisville, Flower Mound, Highland Village, Denton, Plano or Frisco on the evening news (hell, even Lake Dallas [no relation] and Hickory Creek, two of the smallest ones around), now it's all about "new development [here]", "new shopping center [there]," etc. The first four cities on that list are in severe danger of being built out in the next 3 years. True, Silicon Valley already is, but this is news in North Texas, since there's just always happened to be land.
In Lewisville, some of the fields I would ride bikes through when younger are now huge parking lots with shopping centers (shockingly enough, all looking the same) on them. There are 2-3 gas stations on every major street corner, and even on some minor ones.
Expansion has occured so rapidly that street infrastructure cannot keep up, and local mass-transit [dart.org] is far worse than a joke. To give an idea: The main road linking Flower Mound to Lewisville and Interstate 35E is a two-lane blacktop road. Forget using it during rush hour at all ... hell, we used to not even have a rush hour.
*sigh* Wish my grandmother hadn't sold her house in East Texas (Berryville/Frankston/Lake Palestine area) ... I'd buy it and move out there.
--------------------
Re:I live in the Silicon Valley, Not many complain (Score:1)
--Josh
Re:The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:1)
DITTO
I totally know where you are coming from.
Computers Suck... I hate them... but they love me... That's what makes me a computer tech... Love/Hate Situation... Kinda codependant
Re: I Want to Blow Up Silicon Valley (Score:1)
Re:the Bay Area wanted this (Score:2)
This is a democracy, and those governments were elected by the people who lived here, not by industry or outsiders. Apparently, the people who lived here wanted things that those corrupt politicians promised, otherwise they would have elected other officials.
Democracy is hard, and things go wrong all the time. I hope the Bay Area will be a good lesson to people when it comes to issues of urban planning and who to vote for. Maybe other areas can learn from it and be spared a similar fate.
Again, I'm sorry about what happened to the Bay Area; it must have been a beautiful place. But I don't accept it if movies like the one under discussion try to put the blame on new arrivals like myself. We just followed the jobs, and the jobs are here because local politics attracted industry. Many of us would much rather be elsewhere, and we are struggling hard to pay ridiculous amounts for substandard homes in, as you aptly put it, "an ugly megalopolis".
Original independant films (Score:1)
And he's probably doing it for the money too. After having realized that he may have gotten the girl and gotten rich had he stuck around.
Another indie film I will not be seeing. Oh yeah, and coming soon to a theatre near you: Blair Witch 2.
LOL (Score:1)
great
Re:the Bay Area wanted this (Score:1)
So when elected officials violate their mandate, and do not act in the interest of those that elected them, it is the voters that are in the wrong, not the officials? Brilliant thinking, Sherlock.
You have a pretty warped idea of what "representative democracy" is supposed to mean.
Democracy is hard, and things go wrong all the time. I hope the Bay Area will be a good lesson to people when it comes to issues of urban planning and who to vote for. Maybe other areas can learn from it and be spared a similar fate.
This is the most cynical thing I've seen in a long while.
Tell us precisely who the Bay Area natives should have voted for, and show how this would have avoided their current situation. Then tell us how they could have known, at the relevant moments, that those were the choices they should have made. Otherwise, your argument is just so much hot air.
Where did the Orchards go? (Score:2)
I haven't been back there in years. A coworker brought back a map from his business trip to Sunnyvale. I couldn't believe it. All of the wide open spaces were gone. It was sad to see how everything had changed. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't afford to live in my old neighborhood.
Re:The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:2)
The dirty little secret is this: few people in the valley are really rich or even close to it. Housing affordability in the Bay Area is horrendous. If people run around with trinkets that look expensive (the latest gadget or a slightly nicer car), it's because they couldn't affort what really matters, no matter how much they save: a nice place to live in a nice neighborhood.
Next time you sit behind some 23-something guy bragging about Flash animations, realize that that guy is nowhere near as lucky as you to be attending Stanford, probably doesn't live in a place that's anywhere near as nice as a grad student dorm on campus, and is likely to be in deep trouble once the .com craze is over. And, you know, deep down, he probably knows that and is pretty afraid of it all. So, show a little kindness, understanding, and compassion before accusing other people of racism and materialism.
Welcome to a small town growing into a city... (Score:1)
OK, disclaimer: I live in Mountain View, right next to Palo Alto. I used to live in Boston, but I grew up in Amish country in PA.
One of my close friend's (hi Dana!) parents live 2 miles from me in Los Altos. She grew up in Palo Alto before it hit big, and she has most of the same complaints that the guy in the article did. Many are observant.
Unfortunately, they're irrellevant. What they're complaining about is the change of a 30,000 person "small college town" into a real city. The old residential towns of the Peninsula (Sunnyvale to Burlingame) had about 200,000 people in them in 1980. They now run a million or more total. No matter what type of people the influx was, it would have seriously changed the character of the area, and it has. Essentially what's happened is that suburbia has turned into "urbia".
The real crime here is that the old and the monied refuse to recognize that the Peninsula is now a city. They want to try to keep it some sort of low-density suburb. That makes as much sense as restricting Manhattan to 3-story buildings. They can't understand (or won't) that the only way to improve things around here is to start putting up high-density housing.
ohhh, but that would hurt property values. Yeah, like that makes any sense. A 2000sq ft 1-story ranch house in poor shape runs $500,000 in Palo Alto. And Prop 13 sucks. Talk about lining the pockets of the old with the sweat of the new.
The story author has at least one thing right: I'm outta here after I save my nestegg. I'll buy a $500,000 condo on Beacon Street in Boston and get something for my money, thank you.
The unfortunate thing still is this: like Manhattan for the financial market, SV is the place to cut your teeth in tech, and really means you can write your ticket after surviving here for 5-10 years. Kinda like Darwin for the geek set.
-Erik (who hopes that Dana doesn't kill me for this...)
Re:The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:1)
I hate downtown Palo Alto.
Too many places for eating out are too expensive. Cooking for oneself, on the other hand, is pretty good here-- nice choices of ingredients, and a varied culture. I have come to love homemade Indian food-- that is, Indian food that friends have cooked me at their homes ;), but I'll learn how to make it myself.
The bars mostly just suck-- the only one I've found close which is OK is Antonio's.
My apartment is nice enough. Those of my pals that just finished their undergrads here, and started working, aren't as nice. My friends that are getting booted off-campus will have the same situation.
I said the apartment is ok, not the neighborhood. It's isolationville, unless you've got kids, then it's pretty nice.
Most grad students one meets here are people spending a year doing a Masters in Engineering. Stanford obviously makes a bucketload of cash on these. These students take 21 units a quarter in order to be gone in a year. Doesn't make much for continuity.
And where I studied before IMHO there was a richer cultural life than in Stanford.
You're getting an education that, no matter what field it is in, ensures good job prospects, in academia or industry. With your $15k, you lead a much more comfortable life than many of the "yuppies" you complain about.
You are talking about material comfort? That's not what I'm talking about. Materially, I am far more comfortable here than I've ever been in my life. It is the social environment that pisses me off. I'd trade most of the material comfort I have for a decent social environment outside campus.
Next time you sit behind some 23-something guy bragging about Flash animations, realize that that guy is nowhere near as lucky as you to be attending Stanford, probably doesn't live in a place that's anywhere near as nice as a grad student dorm on campus, and is likely to be in deep trouble once the .com craze is over.
The .com craze is not over yet. I'll rejoice for the good its demise brings (though people will have to deal with the negative side effects of that demise, too). Meanwhile, people like that just piss me off.
I *am* lucky, far beyond what I ever expected, that's true. My friends back home are incredibly happy that I'm getting to do what we all dreamt of, and encourage me constantly. But luck doesn't mean that my life is as pleasant as it could, or should, be.
I do have to make the point that you totally didn't address my story about the janitors working late shifts. This is really, IMHO, the central point of what I was trying to say.
Re:The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:1)
Yeah, I get that. I bet you find tinkering with your own computer is a lot of fun, but messing around with other's computers is annoying...
Re:The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:2)
Re:The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:1)
Janitors in SV... (Score:2)
I'm going to address your rant about Janitors first.
Yes, I've seen the recent spat between the Janitor's Union and the various local janitorial companies. It wasn't pretty. Guess what, though: several big high-tech companies came out on the side of the janitors. 3Com sticks in my mind as one. These companies were in favor of the janitors, even though this would probably hurt their bottom line. Gasp!
I hate to say this, but nowhere but academia do custodial staff work day shift. You need to get out a bit more. Janitors in all companies work the late shift.
Actually, since I tended to work 80-hour weeks the past years, I've gotten to know the people who clean my buildings. I'm not fluent in Spanish, and they aren't great in English (but not half-bad, either). They're nice, efficient, and decent people. I see nothing wrong with the arrangement where I expect them to do their job, and I do mine. My building should be "magically cleaned" in the morning, because that's what we're paying them for. I don't have lunch with them (but then again, I don't with the Marketing people, either), and I wouldn't expect them to invite me to one, either.
We live in a Meritocracy, folks. Or at least something that aspires to be. I shouldn't (and don't) look down at the janitors, as they do an essential job, and are good at it. But that doesn't mean I have to either (A) aspire to become a janitor or (B) feel guilty about what I do for a living. I'm sorry, but you don't get to make me feel guilty about being a white-collar worker, instead of a blue-collar one. I don't get to devalue his worth as a human being, but I do get to value my profession more.
One other thing I find highly offensive:
Just a bunch of money grubbing yuppies that like to boast about their success, and a bunch of poor mexicans, asians and blacks that keep it all together.
I guess I get to be a yuppie here. Yup, I'm money grubbing. So are my janitors - they're up here for the better pay and chance to get a better life than they might in other places (alot of the people that clean my building are illegals). Please don't pretend that they're here for the "atmosphere".
As for the racial remark, talk about being a bigot. Asians make up at least 30% of the yuppies, with foreigners another 20% or so. And which segment makes up the vast majority of public servants? (Postal workers, teachers, firemen, policemen)? Oops, that would be, ah, whites? Actually, I can't tell what half the population is out here, so trying to categories by look is foolhardy. Yes, many of the lower rungs of jobs are dominated by certain minorities. We don't live in a utopia. However, there are alot of people out here (of all races) that have gotten ahead through a combination of drive, hard work, and luck.
I guess I shouldn't be so hard on you. It was, after all, a rant, and rants tend not to be either coherent or well-reasoned.
Sorry for spending everyone's time.
-Erik
Re:The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:1)
And there you have the difference between your self and the "yuppies" that you despise so much. They prefer material comfort, they like the atmosphere; shit, they fucking thrive on it. They don't want casual hangouts, baroque atmospheres and simple tastes, despite what the few flashy posers that you see hanging around may say. They want to burn shit-hot in the place where it all goes down, they want the big cash, the flash pad and the juice to say, "the Valley is my pot to piss in". Hate to be the one to have to break this to you, but the Silicon Valley doesn't revolve around students or janitors, it revolves around those tech industry folks whom you detest so much. Much like shit here in Orlando rotates around the Mouse and its "competitors"; when I'm too tired of it, despite the parts of Central Florida that I like, I will pick my silly ass up and MOVE.
Just because you don't like the less social and more productive atmosphere of Silly Valley doesn't mean its wrong, just that its not your kind of place, but hell, you aren't there for the atmosphere, but for the education, right? Damn, whatever forbid that there are some of us who would prefer that shit rather than living in some bohemian paradise reading poetry and smoking clove cigarettes. Give me the fat cash, the interesting work and the no-bullshit move your ass culture of the SV than this backwater fucking burg they call Orlando anyday...
Deo
Look at the alternative... (Score:2)
---
Linux is only Free if your time is worth Nothing
Re:hmmm - Armani is passe (Score:1)
Armani-wearing "New Economy" type
Cool cats know that Armani is passe: it peaked in the meglamaniacal powerhungry statusdriven 80s, and is only now worn by people who know nothing about clothing and style, but know that the name 'armani' puts them into a social niche. Giorgio is a great designer, but the 80s were the peak for his 'style', and unfortunately his stuff now comes to represent 'clothing for the aspiring class - who quite often do not know anything about clothing asethetics', the same goes for Hugo Boss.
The 'real' next generation wears something funkier that reflects a creative, easy going, relaxed, but yet still stylish attitude. As yet this gap has not been filled: cargo pants, pantalones, and new plastique style the likes of trussadi are approaching the ideal look, but have not got there yet. I don't know of a designer that really has 'the look' at the moment, they're all trying to find it.
The 'real' new economy types are into taste and quality - they're web designers that care about what they create, know about structuralism and theory behind their work, and are thoughtful about what they do.
I'll remove my 'trend evangelist' hat.
Re:Hard-working dot-commers are 99% FRAUDS. (Score:1)
I Want To Blow Up Hypocritical Net Writers (Score:2)
Re:Finally, someone wrote my story (Score:1)
Methinks someone should remind those disgruntled slave-wagers that there is a whole hell of a lot of California nearby, not to mention the other 49 states. If the millionaires are so goddamned reliant, moving away will surely take them down a notch or two, eh? What, too expensive to move? Where do they live now? Looks more like a tribute to the success of capitalism to me; bunch of people pissed off about the horrible standard of living, nobody makes them stay but where are they now? Yeah, they're really bothered by all of it, aren't they?
Deo
Re:rich people use drugs all the fucking time. (Score:1)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Deo
Yah, yah... (Score:3)
People complain. Things still change.
Too bad what's happened to the Valley. It's just as bad up here in SF. If you hate it so much, go somewhere else. The past is past, it won't come back.
I'm doing what I can to find fun in the new SF. It's harder than it used to be. Is that the City's fault, or am I different now that I'm older? (*shrug) What's the difference?
--
Re:One thing... (Score:1)
Re:22 yr-old comp eng living in SV (Score:1)
Deo
noUveau riche (Score:1)
Have you ever noticed.......... (Score:2)
Re:Where did the Orchards go? (Score:2)
I heard that "our" old house recently resold for over $500,000.
Such is life. The little quiet low-life nook where I now live, in Marylan,d is suddenly getting filled with cheesy, thrown-up townhouses that sell for $150,000 to $200,000. Traffic is getting worse and drivers are getting ruder. At least there's lots of convenient shopping, so I suppose there's an upside to the development, even if all the new restaurants seem to be chain outlets staffed by teenagers who are strictly at the "put it in the microwave" level of cooking.
I may move. What the hell. I telecommute anyway. Why not Mazatlan? Or Monterrey? (These are both cities in Mexico that have pretty good Internet access.) Or at least one of the U.S. Gulf Coast states?
But since I guess I am (sigh again) now a dot com yuppie myself, except for the "young" part, would I be helping to destroy those areas too?
You can't win.
- Robin
(suffering from a burst of nostalgia over a California childhood that seems idyllic now, but didn't feel all that great at the time.)
Two problems (Score:3)
Re:the Bay Area wanted this (Score:2)
Heck, though this isn't the same issue, look at this year's presidential election. I wanted it to come down to ANYONE other than Bush and Gore. Now I'm stuck with no choice but to vote for one or to not vote. I can't even vote for Ralph Nader as an alternative because the Greens don't have enough signatures in my state to get on the ballot. Real democracy right there, huh? I guess it's all my fault, huh?
To get back on topic, this all comes down to tax revenue. Compare how much tax revenue the local and state governments got out of Silicon Valley before it became Silicon Valley to now. Just the property taxes alone are staggering. I mean 3 acres valued at several million dollars? That's just too much to avoid the temptation, it seems.
I understand that you too have problems with having to live in what Silicon Valley has become, but don't put the blame on the residents. As the previous poster pointed out, there wasn't a damn thing that could've been done. There are a variety of ways local governments can get out of Illegal Seizure of Property. The area I grew up in has a problem with the city annexing valuable county property left and right to gain the tax revenue. Landowners have tried to bring suit against the city, often because they are forced to pay taxes for the city schools when their kids go to the county schools (and now have to pay tuition as non-residents). It's completely bogus, and there's nothing that we can do about it.
Question (Score:2)
Re:The Valley sucks. (MASSIVE RANT) (Score:2)
Then quit whining like a stuck pig and move.
Your "rant" is nothing more than childish gibberish - and frankly the circumstances that prompted you to write it can be found in any big city.
Really, I haven't heard you offer one substantive useful piece of info. I live in downtown Palo Alto and I can tell you it rocks. It is much nicer than 99% of the downtown areas you will ever visit, and almost every visitor I bring in from out of town agrees with me.
If you don't like expensive restaurants, yuppies, and stuck up educational institutions, why the hell did you choose Stanford??? Certainly yuppiedom in the valley has existed before you got here (unless you are in the twentieth year of your certainly worthless research), and certainly you visited the area before deciding to spend four+ years of your life here, right???
I think the truth of the matter is that like many grad students, you're a little pissed that you're not the only game in town, and that people younger than you are doing more interesting and memorable work (and getting paid for it).
The "B" ship (Score:2)
Well, no.
But I remember how, in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the GALAXY" how the "A" ship had all the "useful" people and they deliberately crashed the "B" ship with all the "useless" people like the telephone sanitisers.
The B passengers ended up colonizing earth while the A passengers' new utopia was wiped out by a plague picked up from an unsanitised telephone.
People are studying the wrong thing (Score:3)
This can be seen as a natural disaster- human overpopulation or even corporate overpopulation causing an unhealthy situation and eventual die-off of even the things that clustered in Silicon Valley and caused the problem (long after all indigenous 'organisms' be they people, parks, or art galleries are destroyed).
The question that comes to my mind is, if not San Francisco, where? If there was a powerful and world-famous cultural center populated by artists, writers etc. in San Fran, and if those people are absolutely unable to live in California anymore post-dotcom, where do they go? They must surely scatter and go _somewhere_. Where will be the next great collection, not of power (which shows up on the news quite easily) but of art and culture?
Meanwhile, I have to admit it amuses me that I live in a smallish Vermont town (Brattleboro) in which mailmen (+ mailwomen) still go around on foot delivering letters and smiling at people (at least some of the time :) ), in which there are art galleries and a few bookshops (we lost one recently, which was distressing, but I can count five others off the top of my head which might explain some of why the sixth couldn't make rent) etc etc etc. Sure, everything's dead by 10 in the evening, if not sooner, but so what? The point is, in this dumb little Vermont town, it turns out that I get more of the special charm and cachet of I Left My Heart In San Francisco... than San Francisco itself.
Definitely food for thought :) maybe the next San Francisco will be a virtual cultural center, existing only on the Internet, with its members scattered across all the cozy small towns of the world?
Janitors... (Score:2)
I think the original point was the absurd misplacement of money and it's effects. Is flash coding that much more difficult than scrubbing toilets? Some people make the mistake of thinking that they earned their wild scucess. Few people do, the rest of us are just in the right place at the right time. Sure, what you did to prepare for a living might not have been easy but is it really worth what you get out of it? Is your house really worth two million dollars? None of this is any reason to treat people badly.
Janitors in Louisianna work durring the day at least at every place I've worked. Here, you come to appreciate people who do any kind of work for a living. Humility is a great skill. Those that don't work are engaged in the much easier life of pillage and drugs.
My cousin worked his way through UC Davis as a Janitor. His hard work and good pre med grades earned him a spot at LSU Medical School. He has finished that and is on his way to intern in San Fransisco. I never asked him about his hours, but I don't think it was 8PM to 2AM and I hope he was treated with respect.
They author is not suggesting you be ashamed of your accomplishments. He is praying that people will keep things in perspective and act decent.
Re:Have you ever noticed.......... (Score:2)
You seem to misunderstand markets.
Value is what people are willing to pay.
When a talent is in shorter supply than demand, the price rises until some of those "demanding" decide to do without or make do with something else.
So the price paid for talent is always less than its worth (who would pay more than something is worth?), but higher for useful-but-scarce talent than for useful-and-common.
Sure, people would quickly die without food. But nearly anyone can learn to flip burgers. And it doesn't take a strong command of the local language to clean a building or mow a lawn.
So enterprising immigrants (legal or otherwise) who arrive with ambition but no education and no local language, can still find work tending fields, cleaning buildings, cooking food, and so on. But their children and grandchildren may do much better - and perhaps they will as well, once they have developed skills that are in greater demand than supply.
The problem occurs when the pointy-haired bosses start stereotyping, start believing, for instance, that programming can only be done by young european-descended northern-city-raised Americans, orientals, or east Indians, while Chicanos, "rednecks", blacks, American Indians, and older people of all sorts are good only for low-pay work. When this happens, people with talent but a non-stereotypical appearance or accent, don't find the employment and pay level they are capable of performing, while companies pay exhorbitant premiums for "features" unrelated to the job, reddening their bottom line, all the while lamenting the "talent shortage".
Dishonest voters (Score:2)
The HELL you are.
Even if you've never participated in your local party machine, contributed to or volunteered for a candidate more to your likeing, or voted in the primary, there are more than two presidential candidates on the ballot.
Try voting your concience for a change.
A minor party candidate CAN win a big office. (Look at Jessie Ventura, the governor of Minnesota!) All it takes is voters who don't fall for the self-fulfilling prophecy that only a Republican or a Democrat can win.
The mathematical psychologists have a term for people who ignore the candidate closest to their opinion and vote for only for their best choice among those they perceive as "electable". They call such people "dishonest voters". And such behavior plays HELL with the mathematical models.
As long as you vote for the lesser of two evils, you support evil. By voting for a minor party candidate - even when he DOESN'T get elected, you say to the politicians "Here is a vote that you didn't get, that you COULD have gotten, if your position had been more like THAT guy's."
The only vote that DOESN'T count is the one that isn't cast.
Re:Dishonest voters (Score:2)
Not where I live. You have to have a certain number of signatures to get on the ballot. I literaly don't have any options other than Bush or Gore. There's no one else on the ballot.
The Republican and Democratic candidates are always a shoe-in, but not 3rd party candidates. I would've voted for Nader because of his environmental and consumer rights positions, but the Green party is a few thousand signatures short of getting Nader on the ballot here. Similarly, though I'd rather be shot than vote for a Liberatarian candidate, it's even not an option here. I'm stuck with the snuff-flick candidates -- Bush and Gore.
Re:the Bay Area wanted this (Score:2)
That's probably because a lot of residents are apathetic and vote their pocketbook.
I have lived in places where people put in urban growth boundaries, voted down highway expansion, converted parts of the city to pedestrian-only use, and stopped industry from moving in all over the place. It is possible.
There are lots of things you could have done, like gathering signatures for alternative candidates and helping out with their campaigns. If enough people do that, things change. If not enough people do that, they evidently don't care enough.
Re:the Bay Area wanted this (Score:2)
Oh, please. With many politicians, it's pretty predictable how they are going to act. In fact, my point was "the Bay Area wanted this". People understood who they were voting for then, just as much as they understand who they are voting for when they vote for Brown, Bush, or Gore these days.
No, your beliefs are the most cynical I have seen in a long time. You seem to think that voters are presented with a fixed menu of corrupt choices, and no matter who they vote for, they'll get screwed. How cynical can you get?
The fact is: this is a participatory democracy. It has numerous flaws and could be improved, but it is still reasonably workable. Any US citizen can run for office, and any US citizen can vote for whoever they believe in.
Yes, it takes a lot of work to get an alternative candidate elected, disproportionate compared to the mainstream candidates, who have money, media access, and a party machinery. But it is possible.
There probably weren't any really good choices in many of the local elections. But in a democracy, it is everybody's duty not just to vote, but also to create choices to vote for.
Single Tax on Land -- Telecommuting Enabled (Score:2)
The incentive to enable telecommuting as a real business practice would be so great -- and in the very place empowered to realize that potential -- that people would be moving back to Des Moines and Bombay before you could say "virtual corporation".
Re:Janitors in SV... (Score:2)
Yes. But they aren't, as you would uncover immediately by talking with both dot-commers and janitors. The dot-commers are here to become *rich* in the economic boom. The janitors are here because they want to escape poverty.
I'm sure there's a Silicon Valley janitor bragging to his friends in Mexico about how much money he's making in California.
I doubt it happens much. Have you ever *really* talked with these people? Do you really think they pick up the phone and randomly call their friends in Mexico, and tell them "Hey, my family is living in an appartment with another family, all of us adults have two jobs, we clean toilets all night, and my kids are vegetarian because we can't afford to feed them meat"?
Re:Janitors in SV... (Score:2)
How many companies came out in favor of the janitors? And how many companies *refused* to come out in favor after being petitioned to do so? And, hasn't it occurred to you that the fact that the janitors were ready to strike had something to do with both the fact that some companies came out for them, and that the janitorial companies at the end settled?
I see nothing wrong with the arrangement where I expect them to do their job, and I do mine. My building should be "magically cleaned" in the morning, because that's what we're paying them for.
You're not paying them to clean your buildings with "magic" but with their work, which they provide at extremely inconvenient hours.
As for the racial remark, talk about being a bigot. Asians make up at least 30% of the yuppies, with foreigners another 20% or so.
Irrelevant. I was talking about the makeup of the working class.
Re:noUveau riche (Score:2)
Re:Have you ever noticed.......... (Score:2)
You seem to worship them.
Value is what people are willing to pay.
That is the technical meaning of value in economic theory. The word has meaning prior to that. My Consise OED gives "the regard that something is held to deserve; importance or worth" as its first definition.
So enterprising immigrants (legal or otherwise) who arrive with ambition but no education and no local language, can still find work tending fields, cleaning buildings, cooking food, and so on. But their children and grandchildren may do much better - and perhaps they will as well, once they have developed skills that are in greater demand than supply.
You said it. They may do better. Have you actually considered their chances?
I am Puerto Rican. My countrymates are one of the largest immigrant populations in the east coast of the US since many years. Third generation Puerto Ricans in the US are mostly still poor, among the poorest ethnic groups in the US.
Re:Janitors in SV... (Score:2)
As a counter, how much of the janitors' union's willingness to strike had to do with the knowledge that many of their clients were backing them? This was a complex situation, and one that doesn't boil down nicely.
Also, why do you think I used "magically cleaned" as a quoted concept. Of course they don't clean it by magic, and no one I know thinks that there isn't someone cleaning out their cubes at night. It's just that we don't think about it much, since it isn't immediately important. If I had to think about everything that everyone does all the time, I'd go insane. The key here is to value what people do for you when reminded of the function that they perform. The janitors' threatened strike was a good thing, since it reminded all of us exactly what goes on, which occassionally needs to happen (a gentle reminder is good for any occupation's visibility).
I know you were talking about the working class. However, your original comment is phrased such that it's easy to assume you group all asians, black, and mexicans as being the working class. That's false. Even if we're talking about the working class itself (and not the other chunks of society), don't forget the public sector servants (or don't you consider that working class?), which are a large chunk of whites, and also don't forget the indians, who are heavily present in the service industry. The point here is that the working class isn't filled with repressed minorities who can't do anything else, which is what you strongly imply. Hell, there isn't a majority out here. I'm going to guess that no single race has more than 1/3 of the population.
If you're original intention was to point out that we shouldn't look down our noses at people working hard at more menial tasks, you're right. They are human beings, and do both a valuable job and work at it. However, you also can't say what I do for a living isn't more valuable. It is, based on simple economics. And most people in my social class have worked just as hard as those in the working class to get where they are. Or have you missed the fact that the average working week for technology people is in the mid-60s?
What you do for a living does not necessarily determine your worth as a human being. But one can strive to be more economically successful, and being such is something to be proud of (assuming you didn't get there by immoral means). And I hardly think that most techies in SV can be accused of getting where they are via immoral methods.
-Erik
And Intel's doing it to Washington County (Score:2)
Lots of suburban sprawl, Hwy 26 is a parking lot of the day, & unless you have a blue badge & are vested in lots of stock, you have to put up with dweebs who happened to be lucky & have too much attitude. And every few years Intel (or Nike) complains that they need more tax subsidies, or else they're gonna take their new construction elsewhere.
Meanwhile, they bulldoze more & more of the native oak & pine -- & I mean real pine, not Douglas Fir -- so that they can build another office sprawl, plant it plane trees, & water the hell out of the grass so that you won't want to sit on it. It looks more like California every day.
Okay, this is probably nothing more than an articulate rant, but I feel better for having said it. And I look forward to seeing the movie.
Geoff
Sorry for the rant. But people like that make me sick that I like computers.
Re:Janitors in SV... (Score:2)
No you are wrong here. What makes one persons life have more merit than another person? Or one persons job more important than another? What is the scale on which we measure merit?
What we live in is a class system. Class is defined by age, education, job, sex, race, clothes, wealth and upbringing. A class system is not something to aspire to. It's an ugly thing. And a dangerous thing when the seperation between the "upper" and "lower" classes becomes too defined.
The differences in income levels between the rich and the poor in America has been increasing.
Re:People are studying the wrong thing (Score:2)
San Francisco hasn't had a good "art scene" in several decades. It just thinks it has. The basic problem with SF art and music has been lack of criticism. In NY, they tell you if you suck. In SF, they don't. So there's a psuedo art scene with bad art. I used to go to art openings in SF, and the question I and my friends would argue was "Will this piece be around in five years?" Most of that stuff, especially the bigger pieces, ended in a dumpster.
Check out the permanent collection at SFMOMA. Essentially all the work by local artists sucks. Now visit MOMA or the Guggenheim in NYC. Any questions?
On the other hand, the wannabe artists were more fun than the current crop of wannabe online mall developers.
The end is coming. The cash is running out. See Downside's Deathwatch. [downside.com]
Re:Malda you fsckhead (Score:2)
While you're correct, of course, this battle has been lost; the word has been assimilated into American English, and it's been mutated/mutilated along the way. This isn't the first word for which this is the case, and I assure you it won't be the last.
You want to move to Silicon Valley, right? (Score:2)
I can still remember that day very clearly. It was April 1999, and I was giving a talk at the Chicago Comdex show on the Linux community. While I was there, I stopped by the trade show floor, and wandered by the VA Linux booth. There, I was stopped by Larry Augustine, CEO of VA Linux.
"Ted! You want to move to Sunnyvale, right?"
" No..... but we can talk."
So I spent some time chatting with Chris DiBona, and the rest was history.
So I still live in the Boston area, with a 416k DSL line, and I telecommute. About every 6-8 weeks or so, I pay a trip to Sunnyvale to catch up with what's going on in the home office, and to sync up with the rest of the team there. I am very glad not to be living in Silly Valley. As I tell all my friends, the Bay Area is a wonderful place to visit, but I'd hate to have to live there.
Boston is really nice in that there are plenty of geeks if that's who you like to socialize with, but it's also possible to find folks who aren't geeks as well to socialize with, and that's a definite feature. And while the inner suburbs of Boston are pretty built-up, it's not far at all to get to some really nice parts of Massachusetts. I live 10 minutes from downtown Boston, but I'm also a 5 minute drive or a 20 minute walk from a very large nature reservation with lots of hiking trails in the forest. (And get this! I was able to buy my own house at this location while still living on an academic's salary at MIT --- a salary which would have caused me to be homeless in the Bay Area.)
Every time I visit Sunnyvale, it's clear that companies are desperate for engineers. I was amused by the fact that just about every single slide at the Sunnyvale AMC movie theater were recruiting ads. In the long run, companies are going to have to accept more telecommuters, or open offices outside of Silly Valley. It's only a matter of time.
Re:Single Tax on Land -- Telecommuting Enabled (Score:2)
Taxes have their roots in the feudal equivalent of insurance premiums against unlawful loss of property (primarily land) rights (although protection racket might be a better term). At these early stages, militia are exempt since they have small holdings which they protect themselves -- plus they are obligated to come forth to defend others when conscripted. It is only after substantial acquisitions of wealth are established among some militia that the militia becomes taxed as well as the nobles and those wealthy who are incapable of self-defense. This is problematic because the less wealthy of the militia are still capable of defending their homesteads and are still obligated to defend others -- only the wealthy militia have assets in excess of what they, themselves, can defend reliably. And this is probably the stage where the rot sets in. As the rot progresses, the wealthy use political corruption to shift the burden of their asset protection costs onto the most productive members of society in the form of taxes on economic activity. Once in this state, a society can continue to grow for some time before parasitism finally undoes its security infrastructure -- giving way to more decentralized warlord (gangster) rule among those most capable of evading taxes and most willing to employ covert force.
Land value speculation is one symptom of this sort of property subsidy, but a gradually rising presence of covert and sophisticated gangsterism is another. Both are dramatically on the rise in SV.
Re:One thing... (Score:2)
The unfortunate fact of real estate profits is...they're only realizable if you're OK with being homeless (or moving away from wherever you grew up).
Re:Dishonest voters (Score:2)
You misunderstand my point.
You're starting too late. If you are concerned about this issue, you should already be active long before the ballot finalized.
If you wanted Nader, why weren't you out collecting signatures for the Green party?
Meanwhile, write him in.
Re:Dishonest voters (Score:2)
Because, maybe, just maybe, I'd like the opportunity to vote for a candidate who isn't a loser without having to dedicate a year of my life to their cause. Not once have I ever voted for the guy that gets the Democratic/Republican nomination in the primaries, but I've done my part. My signature is on that list, but that doesn't mean that it's all my fault that I haven't given up school and my job to go work for their party. This is like saying it's my fault there's war in the Middle East because I'm not over there trying to stop it.
Re:Dishonest voters (Score:2)
guy that gets the Democratic/Republican nomination in the primaries, but I've done my part. My signature is on that list, but that doesn't mean that it's all my fault that I haven't given up school and my job to go work for their party. This is like saying it's my fault there's war in the Middle East because I'm not over there trying to stop it.
You have my sympathy. (It's an informed sympathy, too. I've yet to have a presidential candidate that >I worked and/or voted for succeed. And I've been at this since Johnson/Goldwater.)
I wasn't trying to blame you for anything. I just wanted to point out that there are ways to affect what choices are offered on the ballot.
I console myself with this observation: Republics are so stable because they are a good model of how the civil war would come out, so you don't have to fight it. If the bulk of the population who care enough to vote really ARE behind the two big candidates, the little guys' armies wouldn't have stood a chance if it had come to a fight.
Of course they only remain stable while the election IS a good model of the hypothetical civil war. So if there is major systematic election tampering and the population realizes it, you might see things like committees of vigilance or less pleasant unrest.
Meanwhile, the parties don't have a lock. Look at Jessie Ventura for a shining example.