
Alberta, Canada Goes Broadband -- By 2004 202
jasonu writes: "According to this article in The Calgary Herald, every town in Alberta, Canada with either a hospital, a school, a government office or a library will be getting wired for high speed Internet access by the end of 2004. I will finally get broadband!!" Though the article says this will be an "optical fiber network," it doesn't detail the mechanics of it, nor expected data capabilities -- but for $40 a month (Canadian), anything that sounds even remotely "high speed" sounds pretty impressive.
Re:We got broadband, eh? (Score:2)
Bill - aka taniwha
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I'm waiting for the double post.... (Score:1)
OMG! Did you totally not read my post? (Score:1)
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This is done in some parts of the US, too. (Score:1)
It's rather nice (Ashland fiber Network [ashlandfiber.net])
Saskatchewan (Score:1)
On a semi-offtopic note...
A friend of mine was telling me about this man who moved into her hometown (small farming town, the armpit of Saskatchewan, basically) and the company he worked for paid to have a dedicated T1 laid to his doorstep. We could only imagine the cost of it.
Well, I feel snubbed (Score:1)
However, the Canadian initiative and the Albertan initiative are completely different. The Liberal federal government is planning to wire all of Canada if they get re-elected. The broadband access in Alberta is being mostly subsidized ($200 million of the $300 million) by the Provincial government. Telus didn't get the contract, Bell Canada did. Telus is threatening to lay their own province wide cable to compete.
To reiterate, the Alberta plan is already in action. The Federal plan is not, and won't be unless we re-elect the Liberal Party.
Re:Ontario (NY) (Score:1)
Isn't our overall network weaker/slower because we have a single fiber backbone? I'm not an expert (probably obvious..:]) but I know everything seems to have to go through UUNET. Doesn't that mean that our packets have to cross more routers? Or am I insane?
Re:Why doesn't the US take an intiative like this? (Score:1)
Just because you would be able to put a computer in every classroom of every school doesn't mean that this is where the resources should be spent. It's a controversial thing to say on slashdot, but computers aren't the solution to every problem. The failing education system is probably one of those problems.
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Re:This is great! (Score:1)
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
1) Purchase of Farming Supplies
2) Agricultural Research on crop yeilds for various fertilizers and pesticides
3) Water quality anaylisis statistics
4) Environmental statistics
5) Internet Banking
6) Review of government funding and regulations.
Basically running their business like any other business man would. It's arogant to think that they are less educated or capable than you.
Re:BC probably not the reason.. (Score:1)
Re:profitability (Score:1)
Alberta's Net (Score:1)
Re:Fourty bucks for speed? (Score:1)
You just described every consumer grade ISP on the planet. YOU DON'T PAY ENOUGH FOR THEM TO GIVE A SHIT. Get used to it. If you want real performance/service you have to pay for a commercial grade connection.
God bless socialism. (Score:5)
Education, health care, even food and shelter (if you can't afford it yourself). What a generous government to give so freely of its own money! I sure wouldn't give my money away like that!
I look forward to the inevitable day when our wonderful government gives us everything we need, and none of us need to work. I'm definitely voting Liberal!
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Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
Canada (Score:3)
Really.
Especially BC, where I am. DSL is 1.5 megabit and cable is the same. Everyone can get cable if you live in a city (i mean, if your city has cable).
Canada has the highest percentage of broadband users per capita of internet users in the world.
This isn't huge news. It's just cool that Telus is finally putting it's huge resources to work.
I'm hoping for fiber to the house by 2010.
Re:Road technology... (Score:1)
Now which advances faster?
Re:Don't get all "issuey" on me! (Score:1)
Re:God bless socialism. (Score:1)
profitability (Score:2)
This post made while intoxicated so no spell cheakers please
Re:broadband cheaper in canada? (Score:1)
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
well duh if the private companies wont do it is then the governements job to provide it for the people
The telephone company (which had been owned by the government until then) in Puerto Rico was sold to GTE a few years ago. One of the main debates was that since about 75% of the population lives in San Juan and its sorrounding towns (about 24% lives on some smaller cities in the south) people up in the rural areas would get shafted on phone service because there is no way GTE could make money on it. They could now becuse the governement had spent all the money to set up the lines but upkeep would be to costly so slowly they would see their rates go up or their phone service disappear. So in some instances i guess it is cool for the rest of us to pay for stuff so that some people dont have to live in the dark ages
Re:What a waste... (Score:5)
You see, I don't look at this as givine 'net connections to a bunch of people who will never use them.
This about when rural areas first got paved roads. I doubt many people had cars(after all, there were no roads, so no cars), and yet it made a profound difference not only in their communities, but to the nation as a whole(not that I'm saying good changes, by the way). All of a sudden, a farmer could feed more than people within 20km of his house - he could feed people 200-300kms away!
There's also a few things you may not realize.
a) Farming is actually an incredibly technical occupation. The amounts of data that a farmer generates in one year is probably more than an an average two-three story office building.
b) There isn't much to do out in the boonies. While farmers usually enjoy their work, their kids might not. This will immediately increase their quality of living. Also, the two absolutely brilliant people I met became brilliant studying on the farm they grew up on - their was nothing else to do.
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Watch Out (Score:2)
And then they got this idea that they could make the rebates conditional on use of porn filters (bill [68k.org] currently pending in the house). Apparently, if the government takes your money and then gives it back to you, that gives them permission to control the way you use the money. (okay, that's a big simplification, but it's somewhat true. The struggle is really between federal and local control, and their blind insistence that filters work)
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Re:What a waste... (Score:2)
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
Re:smart Canadians knew about this long ago....... (Score:1)
Provincial gov'ts are not federal ministries.
Re:Clarification From an Albertan (Score:1)
Re:God bless socialism. (Score:1)
$0-$25,350 15.0%
$25,350-$61,400 28.0%
$61,400-$128,100 31.0%
$128,100-$278,450 36.0%
Over $278,450 39.6%
you decide which one sounds better.....
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
Bell HSE (Score:1)
So much for those Canada jokes, eh
Re:the year 2004.... (Score:1)
Re:No sales tax in Alberta (Score:1)
Housing costs do seem to be generally cheaper in Canada, as does auto insurance (presumably because you don't sue each other all the time like the dickheads here do), but I still don't think that a 2/3 salary ($70-80K CAN vs $70-80K US) is going to give you have quite the same comfort of lifestyle.
Read more carefully... (Score:1)
Liberals (Score:1)
No... (OT) (Score:2)
Re:No sales tax in Alberta (Score:2)
The US dollar (worth about 50% more than the Canadian one) is definitly a plus, but not as big as one as you'd think. In my experience, cost-of-living is generally higher in the US, especially when it comes to rent (by far my biggest expenditure). Something that costs $20 in USD often costs $20 CD as well, erasing a lot of the currency differences. Of course, this depends a lot on where you live, and things imported from other countries may not follow this rule. Your results may very. :-)
Where the currency difference helps a LOT is when you send US$ back to Canada, as I am doing making student loan payments... HUGE help there.
The salary difference is a much bigger story. American companies trip all over themselves giving skilled Canadians fat paychecks, and often stock. Canadians in the US tend to be well-educated, hard-working, and have good attitudes (all the benefits of foreign labor without the "disadvantages" of foreign languages, sad but true). If you can perform a task, they'll pay for it. In contrast, a lot of the companies in Canada tie their payscales to "experience" (number of years worked). If you're new to the industry, expect to be making a lot less compared to your American counterparts. This is starting to change somewhat, but it's still prevalent.
This means that for a young recent grad like myself, the US is a much better place to work in, financially speaking. As my student loans shrink with the weak C$ and my number of years of experience in the industry increase, the option of coming back to Canada to work looks ever more attractive. I'll have to take a pay cut when I come back, but I'll live with it. :-)
A Little Addition (Score:1)
You misunderstand... (Score:1)
The government thinks it's a necessity for everyone in Alberta to have broadband access, so they're paying to have the entire province wired with it. They don't plan to make money off of it.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:bravo, moron (Score:1)
Maybe... (Score:1)
Re:Fourty bucks for speed? (Score:1)
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
Re:Canada (Score:2)
Heh, nope, TELUS didn't get the deal, Bell did. So now we get to get screwed over by a whole new phone company.
It's not that TELUS sucks, (that goes without saying), but it's that they suck hard enough to leave a technical vacuum any place they touch, that's the real kicker.
Re:Interesting things to this.. (Score:2)
Re:broadband cheaper in canada? (Score:1)
Re:What a waste... (Score:2)
I'd argue that it will be cheaper with this "broadband network" than with roads. After all, we'll probably be using fiber for a long time to come, and it hasn't changes much since its inception. That's what's really driving the cost of this network up - laying the fiber.
After the fiber is laid, the rest of the costs are more reasonable. And, assuming the fiber holds out, to upgrade the network you only have to upgrade the nodes/towns that need it. The hardware won't be too expensive either, I bet.
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Re:No sales tax in Alberta (Score:1)
My point exactly. In Canada, a lot of companies will hire anyone with X years of experience (X depends on what the company believes is appropriate), rather than someone with Y skills. In the US, the situation is reversed. Good or bad, the situation makes working in the US a much more attractive for newcomers to the industry; hence the "brain drain" that's happening now in Canada.
In my "experience", the number of years someone has in the industry, while somewhat valueable, is not the best indicator of how any given employee will perform. Any company that uses it as their primary (if not only) criteria for hiring is doing themselves a disservice.
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
Re:Saskatchewan (Score:1)
My family has had ADSL since 1996. I suppose it helps when you live only a few blocks from their downtown office :) And it's amazing, if somebody wants something huge (StarOffice), it's not unreasonable to expect them to have broadband internet and to download it for themselves. Then there is the States where 1/1000 people have highspeed :) There are cities there with populations which are like 10 times the size of our Province!
Doesn't Suprise me, Canada is usually ahead (Score:1)
Just look at banking technology. I can go anywhere in canada and never carry cash, making purchases directly from stores using my bank card.
The wonders of Interac and a standardized system. I am not even sure if America has heard of Interac, I know you have ATMs, but that is about it.
Re:Broadband fiber? News to me. (Score:1)
Besides, the Network+ and CCNA cert exams still use broadband and baseband as shown above. CompTIA and Cisco certifications are industry standard. Media buzzwords are not.
Besides, "Broadband", as used by most providers, is correct.
Re:God bless socialism. (Score:1)
Re:not again (Score:1)
Knowledge = Power (and Lord help me, "Getting It") (Score:1)
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
Re:BC probably not the reason.. (Score:1)
Bork!
Re:What a waste... (Score:1)
It's ALBERTA thats footing the bill.
And sence our surplus is only a few
billion dollars I think its justified.
Now all they need to do is spend the rest
on education and healthcare.
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Re:smart Canadians knew about this long ago....... (Score:2)
The program announced in the story is a provincial intiative for rural Alberta and, ASFAIK, not part of the Federal programs you mention. A look through the Alberta government Supernet Site [gov.ab.ca] does not reveal any connection to the Canarie [canarie.ca] project. This one is an all Alberta project using Alberta seed money.
FWIW, the Liberal Red Book III still contains unfullfilled promises from 1993's Red Book I. I don't put a lot faith that anything in the book will actually become policy.
Re:BC probably not the reason.. (Score:1)
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not surprising (Score:1)
Re:No sales tax in Alberta (Score:1)
Of course, the weather in AB blows, but then the personality of the people here almost offsets that. :-)
Re:Read more carefully... (Score:1)
Using your argument you don't need broadband
either, and neither do I (but it sure is better
than my awesome
ISP).
Re:Ontario (NY) (Score:1)
Why? So Cretin[1] and his cronies can spend another four years doing absolutely nothing?!? Maybe they can find more protesters to pepper spray in the next term. I seem to remember the statement "I will get rid of da GST". Well, I'm still waiting. Real tax cuts are needed. Good old Cretin did announce some just before the election. Then he dissolved parliment for the election, so the tax cuts are not law yet they are nothing more than a promise. Are you actually naive enough to believe that this asshole will follow through on this promise?
We need a change. Even Joe Who would be a better choice (not voting for him either).
1. Yes, I know I misspelled his name.
Re:broadband cheaper in canada? (Score:1)
Re:God bless capitalism. (Score:2)
When comes down to it, this program is very NOT socialist. No private corporations will be harmed and the final product will be privately owned. The government is just a customer who wants high speed access to its offices across the province and has $200 million to drop on it.
But if you want a big fat pipe now and your just an ordinary consumer in rural Alberta you'll have to move to the city where we've had broadband for 4 years.
Re:Sheesh! (Score:1)
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Oh, here another little thing. (Score:3)
Population of Rural Alberta: ~540,000
Population of Urban Alberta: ~2,160,000
We can probably except that %25 percent of Alberta's population will subscribe to the service(a large porton of rural areas, as well as a smaller portion of urban areas).
So, we've got 25% of Alberta's population(25% = 675,000 people).
675,000 * $40/month = $27,000,000 a MONTH.
So, how long do you think it'll take them to make up the $300,000,000 initial investment? Seems like a damned fine setup to me.
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Don't get all "issuey" on me! (Score:2)
It doesn't pay to check facts when you want a +5 funny! The moderators don't read the article, so why should I?
Now, go buy a "What Would Jeebus Do?" mousepad, to compensate for interfering with my tasteless, yet ineffective commercial exploitation of slashdot.
(Anyway, Alberta's the "freak province" with heavily taxed oil wealth; if prices went up much more, they could put every legal citizen in the whole province on welfare and break even by taxing foreign oil extractors. It's to Canada as Canada is to the world: a huge bundle of natural resource wealth with a tiny population that can get away with practically any ridiculous economic policy by just selling off those resources in raw form to foreigners. We're the feudal nobility of the world, living high by taking a share of the profits from any use of the land, which is conveniently defended for us by our friendly, uncovetous neighbor, the world's greatest military power, which has it's own racket. Which, incidentally, is why you need a Jeebus coffee mug and a matching Jeebus sweater; welfare doesn't include GHz processors and cable modems yet.)
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Re:Why doesn't the US take an intiative like this? (Score:2)
Contrast that with, say Redmond, where there is DSL, but no cable available. No competition. The price is -at least- 40 a month, and that's for bare bones service.
The downside, is that wiring an entire city is a pretty massive undertaking if you aren't building on existing infrastructure. For one the size of Tacoma, it is feasible with a couple years of work. For one like, say, Los Angeles, it would be a nightmare. And to expand such a proposition to the national level -- well, it ain't gonna happen.
Don't forget, the cost of wiring isn't just the cables and power. You have to deal with buildings (high-rises are probably even worse). You have to tear up roads and do things that may affect traffic. And while you're at it, make sure you don't affect any other service. Very costly.
Frankly, if you want broadband NOW, you should just move to a new residence. If you're looking for the better long term solution, then who knows - maybe they'll do something like Tacoma did. If you live in a small-medium sized town with a lot of tech professionals, you might be able to get some petitions and influence the local govt. A long shot, of course, but an interesting prospect.
Best regards,
SEAL
Re:God bless socialism. (Score:2)
Fourty bucks for speed? (Score:2)
So, this is what I get for fourty dollars a month Canadian? I'd pay triple that for good service, a consistent connect to Quake servers, and the ability to talk to someone who knows networking when I phone tech support.
One of the most killer moments was when I complained to the tech support guys about the crappy connects I got in Quake, to the tune of five or six packet loss phone jack icons a minute (yes, I troubleshooted every last variable other than my cable modem) and in order to get me off the phone, they told me to take a screenshot of the lag, and to send it to support@home.com. So, I took a picture of the game not moving.
..
Michael Labbe
most of Alberta already "Broadband" (Score:2)
Calgary (including suburbs)
Edmonton (including suburbs)
Red Deer (including suburbs)
Lethbridge
Fort McMurray
Hinton
Population is about 3 million, and the cities above comprise about 80%. So add the other 400 000 in that this story is about, and you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a place without good net access.
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Re:Never in the USA (Score:2)
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Re:No sales tax in Alberta (Score:2)
Agreed, there may be other advantages to living in Canada, but financially it seems a loss.
Indeed, it's good health care. (Score:2)
For example, the American system isn't actually any better just because they pretend it's a free market, it's so absurdly overregulated that there's no room for profitable price reduction (however they reduce quality of service with profitable spending reduction), and the "insurance" system is practically equivalent to a tax-supported system (hired central management isn't any smarter than elected central management). But they at least let the extremely rich pay for operations that are too expensive for the general population. These early adopters fund a lot of research and development.
We don't give enough credit for the progress of medicine to developments in the USA. It scares me to think that they might be adopting something like our system soon, as it could really hurt the whole world's hospitals. What would MRI prices be without those crazy rich Yankees having their pets scanned?
What really bugs me is all the talk about how we mustn't allow private hospitals and "two-tier health care". It's not like people who can afford private health care can't afford plane tickets! They just go to other countries (mostly the USA) when they want treatment that the government won't pay for. What would be so wrong about letting them do it here, and keep their money in the country?
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Re:God bless socialism. (Score:2)
Idiots that want to grouse about health care -- and that'd be Canadian idiots thinking it's awful and expensive, or American idiots thinking the same -- need to check out Canada's Burning [washingtonmonthly.com], which exposes the lies the media tells. Canada's healthcare is currently kicking righteous ass, despite its problems.
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Re:Don't get all "issuey" on me! (Score:2)
Good look with the t-shirts though
TECHNICAL FARMING (Score:4)
Farmers are using sophisticated soil-sampling quality testing, with GPS, to determine fertilizer spreads. The GPS is used to mark the sample location and generate a "map" of the field... and the GPS is used to control the mix of fertilizer *as* it is being spread.
GPS is also used for yield monitoring, during harvest: volume and moisture content. Why is one area more productive than another? The soil/fertilizer/weather/etc data is reviewed and analysed, and plans made to improve yield the following year.
Some farms use GPS with insect infestation data to perform variable crop spraying. The most sophisticated systems mix the pesticide on-the-wing: concentration dependent on infestation level.
How about variable-rate planting? Overcrowding is ruinous in poor-yielding sections. Plant fewer seeds there, and save money. Variable-depth tilling: monitor the hardpan depth and till only deep enough to crack it.
Variable-rate irrigation will make a fortune for its inventor, particularly in water-poor states like California.
And so on. The farming business is as high-tech as one's imagination... satellite imagery mapping out stressed crops, so one doesn't need to sample all 4000 acres to locate the infestations? Why not!
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You moron. It wasn't the feds, it was the province (Score:2)
not again (Score:2)
Lorne Taylor? I thought that was Al Gore's title.
These comis are never tired of putting forth this transparent propaganda machine about how the government did this.. the government did that..
Get real man. The internet was invented by General Motors and Standard Oil, and no high speed venture will succeed unless they appoint Chainsaw Al to run it.
Re:No sales tax in Alberta (Score:3)
Things don't automatically cost 50% more just because they're sold in Canada.
It certainly isn't a financial loss of any calibre once one calculates in the costs of being in America.
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Some facts from Calgary itself. (Score:2)
1) In an area (x) times the size of Texas, we have
slightly less than three million people.
2) MOST of those people (~75%?) already have access to high speed internet connections, via ADSL or cable. (or if they're willing to pay, direct fibre connection to the CA*Net backbone)
3) This news is only interesting because it's getting high speed access to everyone else in the province. All of those people in Balzac, Beiseiker, and so on will have high speed when this is through.
That said, this is just another one of our Premier's pre-campaign sweeteners. Somehow throwing $300M at a company to do something they'd make money on anyways doesn't exactly go along with the philosophy of Mr. "cut government spending, privatise everything, and get me another %$$#& beer!" but it _does_ go along nicely with the idea of softening up the voters before officially calling an election. (especially when his strongest support has been rural)
Why doesn't the US take an intiative like this? (Score:3)
It's not as if we don't have the funds for such an endeavor. A friend of mind crunched the numbers and figured that the cost of one aircraft carrier could put a computer on ever classroom desk of every school of every town, city, and state in this country (and we're in the processes of building a new one right now, right?).
Wiring the country for government subsidized broadband would be a lot cheaper than the aforementioned task. Grr...
Maybe I'm just bitter because my house sits in the middle of a DSLAM-lacking bubble.
No sales tax in Alberta (Score:2)
smart Canadians knew about this long ago....... (Score:4)
Re:What a waste... (Score:2)
True... engineering technologies are exactly the same today as they were ten or twenty years ago. And roads don't need regular maintenance.... oh wait, no, never mind.
At least we've replaced all those old copper lines we used to have ten years ago, back when 28.8 seemed like a lot... oh wait, forget it.
:)
Re:God bless socialism. (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4)
Re:Indeed, it's good health care. (Score:2)
Bzzt, wrong. Check the facts. The issue is that doctors can't get time in the facilities. Private facilities would increase the number of possible physician hours worked, and thus improve public health care.
'cause private facilities duplicate existing resources
Yeah, and we only need one brand of cornflakes too, and one car maker, and one computer maker too. Are there really people still so stupid they spout USSR propaganda like this with a straight face?
Business can thrive on one percent or less profit, despite what drug companies claim. Look at grocery retailers for an example.
Ah. Ignorant, stupid, and economically illiterate to boot (hint: It's TURNOVER that matters. Read an econ textbook, loser). A totally typical advocate of socialized health care. Thanks for playing -- come back when you grow a brain.
Re:Broadband fiber? News to me. (Score:2)
AFAIK:
Broadband:
- Uses many signals over a single pipe to carry data.
Baseband:
- Uses a single signal to carry data over a pipe.
Now, if they use multiple colors of light for the transmission of data over the actual line, wouldn't that be true broadband?
Please correct me if I am wrong here.
Re:Sheesh! (Score:2)
Sure you can.
You just can't fly it very far...
Re:This is great! (Score:2)
Why don't more private companies build highways in Canada? They're allowed to, I've checked it out and talked with a few high-ish ranking politicians and lawyers. Fact is, there isn't enough money to be made. People prefer medicore, traffic-laden yet FREE roads over nice and expensive ones.
I think the same might happen here - people will prefer the lowish-cost government internet access over more expensive commercial counterparts.
However, I also doubt that there will be no commercial competition. After all, this is one of the first government ISPs(here in Canada, anyways), and there are how many commerical ones?
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Re:Oh, here another little thing. (Score:2)
Keep in mind I'm not trying to say that this is perfect, I'm just trying to dispel the "they're wasing our tax money on frivilous technology!" myth.
I think it's pretty obvious that this will be making money, and lots of it, in not too long a time.
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Re:God bless socialism. (Score:2)
Govenrment spends in times of resession to promte growth, and save in times of growth, to maintain control.
Sheesh! (Score:2)
Whine whine whine. Ever cosider the possibility that while you're skiing in Banff and run smack into a tree, fracturing your skull, the local hospital might just benefit from that network, and therefore you might just benefit?
At the very least, you could play Quake from your hospital bed...
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This is great! (Score:3)
Governments shouldn't have to do things like split big monopolies up - they should never have become monopolies in the first place. With the government hooking up its populace, you know you will always have an alternative. And, if for some reason the entire venture becomes "unprofitable", no politician is going to shut down the program after people have gotten used to it. They'll never work again.
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,