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H1 B's Get To Change Jobs More Freely 63

Posted by Hemos from the good-news-for-them dept.
merigold77 writes "Business2.com reports in H1-Bs on the Move that the bill allowing 80,000 new H1-B workers includes "significant new freedoms for the workers themselves. In the interests of reducing the role of the INS in these workers' careers, the bill includes a 'portability provision' that makes it easier for H-1B workers to switch companies without having to wait for INS approval.""
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H1 B's Get To Change Jobs More Freely More

H1 B's Get To Change Jobs More Freely

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  • Who cares if you can get INS approval quicker? That's not the reason why H1-Bs typically can't change jobs. The reason is that most H1-B workers are also applying for a green card, which is sponsored by their employer. Once the employer begins the green card process, they have the worker by the balls. They can freeze the salary, triple the workload, and do all sorts of other crap, and the employee just has to put up with it until the green card comes through. And the way the green card process works right now, the employer can (and will) stretch it out for a long time.

    What's really needed is to streamline the green card process. Put a stop to the indentured servitude, give the workers green cards, and let them actually participate in this "free market" that I keep hearing about...

  • I have to disagree.

    Unless there's something shady about the new job, I haven't heard that there are any problems getting the new H1B. As a person, the INS has already found that you qualify.

    If you wait 3-6 months to accept the new job, it will not be there in many cases.

    And there are never any guarantees for employment in the US anyway. Anyone can get fired tomorrow.
  • The increased portability of H1B's is nice, although I think portability was never such a big problem.

    But the bill fixes some other problems that perhaps were much more serious. For example, H1B holders used to lose their job and had to leave the country if the INS didn't manage to process their greencard applications in a timely manner (even just getting an already approved green card issued now can take nearly 3 years). It also allows many greencard applicants to change jobs while the INS is sitting on those applications.

    The problem with it all is that the new bill creates even more paperwork for the INS to handle: new H1B visas, new forms, new applications. If they couldn't handle the old volume of paperwork, how are they going to deal with this?

  • We've been through this already, haven't we? (Score:3)

    by BluedemonX ( 198949 ) on Tuesday November 07, 2000 @03:29PM (#641355)
    Once again we're going to have three factions clashing. Faction ONE is going to be older workers who are ticked that they aren't making $300,000 a year anymore programming in COBOL and who can't find jobs compared to the young uns, pleading to keep furners out so they can git thuh jobs. Faction TWO is going to be people from outside the USA (myself included, being Canadian) who will tell you how brutally difficult the whole process is for people, and Faction THREE is going to be people who think applying for a green card is like applying for a driver's licence.

    Linus Torvalds is stuck behind red tape. Many a talented worker is stuck behind red tape. This may or may not be a bonus, because the motivation of MANY on H-1s is to become Green Card holders, whereas many believe temporary means temporary.

    If we're going to have a discussion about this, please put your own personal agendas as to whether these furners should be here or not aside and discuss what this actually means to some of the readership here.
  • Indeed. Even if this was for the wrong reasons, it has the same effect. H1B's can now leave their jobs for better paying ones, or jobs with a better work environment.

    This will force H1B loving companies into competing fairly for their employees (including H1B's).
  • > It is nearly impossible for an American to get
    > a work permit in most countries.

    An eye for an eye!

    --- Speaking only for myself,

  • Your forgot one thing!!! Contracts!!!!p> Many companies require you to sign an agreement that they will not leave for X years or have to pay $$ to leave.

    Just like a company requiring reimbursement of the moving expenses that they paid out, if you leave before one or two years.

  • Anybody know if this affects H1 visa holders who are applying for green cards? Or, are these people still tied to one job for 3 or more years?
  • There is no reason why the government should be applying restrictions to immigration. Immigration should be completely open because when it is, both domestic and foreign economies prosper, and unemployment reduces drastically.

    Especially when combined with a sensible abolishment of the minimum wage.

    The state can simply not afford to maintain the lifestyles of the non-contributing members of society any longer.

    I don't know why Browne has featured so insignificantly in the media. Ooops, politics is off topic now isnt it. :)

  • I don't consider myself a wage slave. I am the highest paid programmer in the company I work for, and the only immigrant on the payroll.

    Our workload outpaces our resources, and if my company could find more programmers like me locally they would hire them and these would join me at the top of the payroll heap. There are plenty of bright kids and what some like to call advanced hobbyists out there, but when you need 5-10 years experience, you pay for it when you can get it, even if it means importing.

    I can tell you, moving from Canada to the U.S. has not been all it was cracked up to be. With stars in my eyes, I sold my home and moved my family to a U.S. city to work for better pay. Despite receiving better pay, the reward hasn't been necessarily financial. Among other things, I quickly found that to live in a good neighborhood with good schools, I would have to spend more real estate dollars than where I came from. I have had to re-establish credit. My wife can't work if she wanted to. I have been on a temporary visa for 4 years wondering if the holy grail (green card) will ever arrive. What a feeling - everything is temporary?! The list goes on and on, not to mention the xenophobic fear mongering in tv ads and on the internet ;)

    The positives about moving to the U.S. have been quite unexpected: we've met some of the best friends anyone could have, and have put down some pretty good roots here. I hope we do one day get our permanent residency here, and can feel like we truly belong. I hope I don't have to sell all my belongings, and pack up my family with my tail between my legs and go back to Canada. I've gambled a lot, and for the first time in my life know the fear and apprehension an immigrant feels.

    The ironic part is that with the explosion of the internet, it matters much less where I live than when I first hired in 4 years ago. Today, I could take a somewhat reduced role with my employer and live anywhere that I could find good bandwith, including another country.
  • As a former H1-B, who got trapped at a company too long, it's about time they improved job portability. I eventually said "stuff it" and went home to Australia.

    The next thing they need to fix is the green card process. Having the employer sponsor the application is bad news. There's no incentive for the employer to fast-track the application, because they lose the person faster. There's no incentive for the employer's lawyer to fast-track the application, because they'll get paid more for delay.

    The green card process should be solely between the INS and the H1-B holder. If a person can prove that someone will hire them on a H1-B, why do they need to prove again that they'll be employable with a green card?

    I like the provision to limit INS stuff to six months, but you have to get it to the INS first. That's where the employer and their lawyer can slow things down. I went for 1.5 years before the damn lawyer submitted the green card paperwork, because of nit-picking on things he already had but lost.

    One thing's for sure - they won't fool me a second time. The whole process will need to be fixed first, including the green card, before I set foot in the US again.

  • When does it go into effect?

    Theoretically - October 17, when Bill Clinton signed it. In practice - when the INS publishes the regulations for implementing the law. My estimate - mid 2002.

    Is that true of all parts? It seems to me that the "portability provision" could be done with no involvement from the INS. You simply start working at the new company, and no one has any legal way of stopping you.

    Or am I being naive?
  • While I think the new legislation is great (guess who just switched jobs), it isn't quite enough to make things fair for all H1B
    holders. Most (or at least a very large fraction of) H1B holders also apply for a greencard. If you switch jobs during the 4-5
    years of the greencard process, your entire application is nullified.

    No longer true - once the Labor Certification is complete, the rest of the green card process is transferable.

  • You are so right. We are a global economy I can't wait for the day when we're all united as citizens of earth. When we all work for the betterment for ourselves and for the betterment of humanity. Watching star Trek has taught me a lot of great stuff and one of the best things it has taught me is that we can achieve so much if we all work together.:)

  • Skilled workers are those that work out of passion.. not drones that expect some company/institution to pay for their training.
    The truth is that most Americans have little ambitions of hard work.. they would rather be managers. People coming from countries with less IT opportunities trained themselves out of passion with more computers and less money/power in mind.
  • That's an urban legend. H1B visa holders are paid reasonable wages. Even if the employer could somehow hold them responsible for the application fee for their visa after the employer already has paid it, the employee (or their new employer) could simply pay it off; $2500 is not a lot of money. Your suggestion that H1B holders are somehow indentured servants for several years is just wrong.
  • Did you get the name of the person who gave you that information? I wonder if filing an I-847 [ins.gov] is relevant.
  • This depends heavily upon the state. Texas, for instance, is a Right to Work state. This means you can leave your job at any time and go work for a competitor. It also means your employer can fire you with little reason. However, employment contracts like this are not legally enforcible in Texas.

    Now, if the company pays your moving expenses, which can be quite significant if you're coming from overseas, you can be required to repay your moving expenses. But you certainly won't go to "Immigrant Jail".
  • But the "newcomer" always could change jobs. With INS inefficiencies, it became a bit more of a hassle and risk in recent years, and it's good that the H1B bill addresses this issue. But the notion that an H1B holder is "slave labor" paid "half the price" is a myth created by people with a political agenda.
  • If you re-read you're post, you'll realize that the words INS and simply are on the same line.

    Boy, you're so naive!

  • I'm amazed they were able to slip that into the bill since the intent of the bill was to get more cheap labor.

    Perhaps your basic assumption is wrong: the politicians and companies that I know did not and do not consider H1Bs slave labor.

    In fact, until 1998, INS processing was quick enough that people usually could change jobs within a year, even if they just started their greencard application. The current problems are entirely due to INS processing delays, and Congress seems to have that addressed quickly and efficiently.

    As for your company, I'd change jobs in your position. If your company engages in such practices, it doesn't seem like it values its workers. This is not common practice in the industry.

  • Again we see who's side the Republicans are on. They are for advancing the wants and needs of big business. They don't give a fsck about us.
    How many programmers remember the Regan era when we all were getting laid off. If Bush ends up winning (again) we are all in toruble. The H1B's WILL put us ALL out of work! Companies will have basically a free ride to get what ever they want. I hope many voted for third parties at least.
    This country(US) is being sold to the highest bidder and American workers are not part of the equation!
    Write, call your congressman and voice your opinion on this stuff. Tell them you DO NOT want any more of this type of stuff. Remind them that H1B's cannot vote and you can!

    Folk's I have been saying and saying it, we need to clean house in American politics. Vote for third parties and send a message to the Dems and the Reps that you are sick and tired of the same old crap!

  • This country is a great nation and majorly populated by immigrants. So isnt it amazing Americans look upon H1B workers as labour and not humans. The reason you have these workers coming here is 1. You need skills. 2. They need jobs. Its really a great step on part of the government to have pro worker laws. Come on you american twerps wake up. This is a Global Economy now! the people who complain of losing jobs and hate imports have other options like working harder maybe?
  • I do know people that have been bonding and sometimes they will not just let you just pay it off. It does not happen often but does happen. I do think it is stupid of the person to get themself stuck in that boat but for the most case you are right H1B visa holders do get paid generaly well.
  • Skilled workers are those that work out of passion.. not drones that expect some company/institution to pay for their training. The truth is that most Americans have little ambitions of hard work.. they would rather be managers. People coming from countries with less IT opportunities trained themselves out of passion with more computers and less money/power in mind.

    I generally agree with this, but it tars Americans with far too broad a brush.

    It's true that that most talented and productive people - wherever they come from - mostly train themselves. If someone has to take a training course in basic HTML, for example, they're unlikely to become a really good web designer. The principle I would put forth here is that we're each actively responsible for our own skills - for acquiring them, for keeping them competetive, and for recognizing reality if it turns out your not doing what you were born to do. If you listen to the politicians and pundits, you'd think that everyone should be a tech worker - piffle!

    I also think most American firms in my experience don't do enough training, or enough of the right kind of training. A lot of us just have too little time to pick something up in a catch-as-catch-can manner. A structured training course can save time, but no one should expect training to convert halfwits into wizards.

  • That's an urban legend. H1B visa holders are paid reasonable wages.

    Bullshit. It's not an "urban legend", it is a documented fact [ucdavis.edu].

  • Guys, the author didn't seem to pay close attention to the law and is now getting your hopes up. There are some details of that law, which you should know. Go here [shusterman.com] and follow the NEW H1-B FAQ link in the center of the page.
  • As an aside : Bigots have ceased to amaze me - they're a simple, base part of life. However, I do urge everyone to do their research. For example, in order to get an H1B a company has to go through significant legal hoops. This includes checking the skillsets in with the state and federal departments of labor, getting their approval for the wages paid - which have to be in line with national averages, then submitting the app to INS for their approval. In addition to showing the employer is paying market rates, the employer also has to proove that he has searched for a similar skillset locally and posted the job opening for a period of time (several months). Companies that are in violation face fines and are prevented from sponsoring H1B's for a period of time. Also, H1B's have to pay the same social security and medicare as everyone else, yet they are not entitled to those benefits if or until they become citizens. And the citizenship process from an H1B to a greencard is even more convoluted and painful - one I don't even pretend to begin to understand. The jobs for anyone with quality skills and cogent speaking and writing ability ARE out there, as is the training. I've seen many Cobol'ers turn into cracker jack programmers, but I've seen an equal number of VB'ers think VB is the be-all end-all of computing. I'm also quite sorry to say that it's easier in this country to complain (God given rights, such as voting, which are never exercised) than to get retrained and given the skillsets required. Most (I emphasize not all)Americans aren't motivated and didn't bother to pay attention in their schooling to build the analytical and problem solving skills. After all, what else do you expect when you can skate through high-school on home ec and carpentry instead of busting ass on Calc? Why learn DiffEq when you could be raving ... dude. You want to get on someone's case, get on the case of companies (do your own research here) that farm their work out to foreign companies in Mexico, India and the like. If the jobs are going anywhere, the jobs are going out there. The same thing may or may not happen to computing jobs that has happened to manufacturing jobs. Labor is cheaper overseas - $35/hour for programmers that are happy to slave 12 hours a day (who doesn't) as opposed to a cost 2 or three times that. That makes economic sense, but it's still not right. The manufacturing sector got squat help from either party, what makes you think computing will? Al "Internet" Gore, W "Clueless" Bush ... either way, expect more of the same ... But I'm quite happy to say that companies that go that route deservedly get what they paid for. Of course, IMO, the smart companies will hire locally and supplement with H1B's - the work is still out there guys. Just because you're a VB scripter who can't or won't grok Java, doesn't mean there are no jobs out there, nor the training. So ... do your research first then bitch long and hard to your reps and congressmen to get laws passed to prevent this kind of behaviour. Instead of blaming someone else for one's shortcomings and encouraging knee-jerk politics, why doesn't one look for a fix closer to home - oh yeah, 'cause it's a God given right that one is always correct and just and it is another's problem.
  • A friend of mine is running Win2K Server. Currently, he's experimenting with Microsoft Streaming Technology.
    This stream is of AVS Winamp scripts he's wrote. He wants to see how his server handles being slashdotted. I warned him that he probably didn't want the masses looking at his site, but he asked for it. So, if you have Mediaplayer, and want to see it...
    Here's the link: [24.130.149.205]
  • I'm working on this Willy Wonka Parody in which a korean sweatshop worker finds out that Uncle Sam has only printed 400,000 H1B Visas and if you win one, you get a tour of the Land O' Plenty and a lifetime supply of greenbacks.

    Of course he wins the last one and when he arrives in America, Uncle Sam greets him and sings...

    Come with me and you'll see
    A job with pure degradation
    Take a look and you'll see
    Your salary going to inflation

    Here's your manager
    His name's Bob
    He knows much less than you do
    You'll get his coffee.

    If you want to view paradise
    You're in the wrong place
    And we'll send you back
    In 6 years.

    Well naturally Our Hero finds out that Slugworth the IMS representative is actually a good guy and will let him stay (Yeah, right!)

    Songs from the show:
    The S and M man
    The Boat Ride Over
    Pure Degradation
    Cheer Up Chan
    The Cow-Orker Songs
    I've got a Golden Shower
    I've got the USA

    Once I'm done writing it, I plan to make it an off broadway musical. Anyone want to act in it?

  • Post with your fucking account Jackass, be a man, I want to see who's posting this shit, I'll fucking own you!

  • Re:Why not train more Americans? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How is this offtopic, you crack-addicted moderator?
  • Ideally wouldnt we all have one unit of currency? This is a step in the right direction. Dont be so greedy, other countries dont have nearly the resources we do. and as far as $7 gas goes, we should be driving less anyway, it would take something like $7/liter to get masstransit and alternately fueled cars out to the market.
  • What is the big deal with these immigration laws that cause people to get all riled up?? I think this is a great bill, I personally know a lot of people without US citizenship that are very technically savy, (at least more than I am), programmers and engineers or whatnot. This will allow them to contribute to our economy and anyone who is contributing is good. Besides we are the cultural melting pot so we should take everyone.

    We are too greedy with our resources as it is (some statistic about how much the average american spends/uses vs avg Asian). I say let them switch jobs, make us americans work harder, its not a free world, isnt that the idea of capitalism??
  • I'm glad these former wage slaves can shop around the job market now, because I'd hate to have to compete against an equally qualified person who has fewer working rights than I do.

    On a different note, I'd rather shoot myself in the face than have to hear another unemployed 40-something engineer's sob story about being booted in favor of inexperienced kids (like me) or cheap intentured servants, er... H1's. Now the whiners will have one less excuse.

    Seriously though- maybe this will help out the obvious age bias that older programmers (percieved as past their prime & too set in their ways) experience every day. Or not, but at least it's a step in the right direction.
  • Never ask the INS for information. It is not reliable. Ask your lawyer instead. They know both the laws and how they're applied, which is sometimes very different.

    Whoever happens to pick up the phone at INS probably has no clue, and doesn't care.
  • I believe that it is law now. However, I hadn't heard about this before, so no doubt that both major candidates had any idea how it would play to their constituents, so it got no media coverage. Since it affects H1-B visas and the INS, it's not surprising that it may not have gotten any air time. Of course, in the RTP area, it may have aired... there's a lot of H1-B workers there...

    Anywho, it's a law now. Wonder if this will help me, a good old American citizen with two B.S.es get a job in a related field. (You'd think with a Mech. E and a Comp. Sci. degree, I'd be working somewhere other then Kinko's.)

    Kierthos
  • There are actually several provisions in the law which deal with the whole process from getting an H1B visa to getting a green card (if that is one's ultimate goal). One of them is as you state:
    ...the "portability provision" means that you can move to a new H1B job when the papers are submitted to INS, not when they finally have approved them.

    Another one answers your second question:
    Does it affect at all that in order to get a green card you need to stay at the same company for the full (3-6 years) INS processing time?

    The answer is "yes" - if you have to wait more than 6 months (180 days) for your green card after your initial I-140 approval, you can switch employers as long as the jobs are similar. With the current dates, this means that after no more than about two years after you first file paperwork for a green card, you could be able to change employers (this varies by geographical region a lot - in some places it can be year and a half). Another provision, that will help a lot of Indians and Chinese, is the "spill-over" of unused green cards at the end of each fiscal year to countries with backlogged priority dates.

    Sounds good, doesn't it? Now, why did you have to ask this, then:
    When does it go into effect?

    Theoretically - October 17, when Bill Clinton signed it. In practice - when the INS publishes the regulations for implementing the law. My estimate - mid 2002. Sorry...
  • I really feel that the H1-B situation puts tech workers at a serious disadvantage. Why hire local labor when you can hire slave labor for half the price? I think it's fine for companies to look abroad, but if that newcomer can't change jobs, then he can't command the salary he deserves. It's unfair to him and it's unfair to locals because it makes them less valuable.
  • H1B's can now leave their jobs for better paying ones, or jobs with a better work environment.

    This will force H1B loving companies into competing fairly for their employees (including H1B's).

    While I think the new legislation is great (guess who just switched jobs), it isn't quite enough to make things fair for all H1B holders. Most (or at least a very large fraction of) H1B holders also apply for a greencard. If you switch jobs during the 4-5 years of the greencard process, your entire application is nullified.

    That doesn't affect me, personally. I'm fairly certain I'll be staying with my new employer well beyond getting my greencard. There are many other who are essentially stuck with their current employer for at least a few years because of this. That can result in employers giving far less compensation to, or requiring far more work from, employees who are in the greencard application process. This harms not only foreign workers, but also American workers. It harms American workers because it gives some employers an incentive to choose foreign workers rather than Americans.
  • And, as a side note, It is nearly impossible for an American to get a work permit in most countries.
  • Of course, these contracts are usually legally unenforcable.
  • Lets spend more money in training americans:
    I somewhere read this "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It annoys the pig and wastes your time". Not everyone is interested or have the skills to become a world class developer, just as I can learn to play de piano but I simply can't become a piano concertist because I simply don't have the whatever it takes to become one. Software engineering can't be taught in a classroom, it takes a great deal of energy on your side to become good at it. The best developers I have met learn without having to be pushed to it, they just love it and they pick up new skills quickly without needing to be trained. The best developers just pick a book and "eat it". If I had told my current employer that "I couldn't do Java because I have no training", I would be arguing with a crappy C++ developer on the advantages of using smartpointers so that I don't have to debug his/her memory leaks. It's all about YOU wanting to develop your skills and gettting out of zombie mode...please!

    Companies get HI-B's because they are cheaper:
    After six months of chaos, our team have finally got rid of every single line of code that a very unexperienced developer had created in the last two years. Practically the company paid a guy's two year's salary in vain. The codebase that we inherited was a real mess, we had to rewrite it ALL. The code was totally unstable and an endless source of bugs, of course the orignal author was a chep one (at least his code shows it), companies are beginning to realize that: CHEAP CODERS == CHEAP CODE and in the long run it costs more. Get good developers up-font and you will ship on time...because you don't have to rewrite the works of a mediocre developer.

    There are PLENTY of American workers:
    I have worked with some American developers that just kick ass, but most of the applicants are either:
    - Highschool student that knows a littbe bit about Java and C++ (mostly syntax).
    - Stranded mediocre developer with N years of "solid C/C++ development experience" who can't draw a class diagram on a whiteboard.
    - Ex-C developer wanting to move into OOP (Kinda knows C++ syntax) but does functional decomposition when asked how to solve a simple problem in a OOP fashion.
    - Wannabe manager with poor teamwork skills interested mostly in the "Engineering process" (step climber) while being unable to answer(in realistic terms) a simple question as "How do you manage your current team?".
    - VB programmer who thinks focusing on a single technology makes them "more marketable".

    This is just my view...before you troll about it...THINK!

    I don't feel the need to append crap to what I write, please use the same courtesy.

  • I liked this one; Why was it modded down?

    Willy Gates and The Software Factory

    ------------------------------------

    GATES: H-1Bs and Investors . . . Admin and DBAs . . .

    . . .
    Is one of the moderators actually a 'bot that mods down posts with LOTS OF WORDS IN ALL CAPS?
  • "CHEAP CODERS == CHEAP CODE" Not necessarily. I knew this one American Guy who didn''t write good code. I knew this one Australian who didn't write good code. I knew this one Indian who didn't write good. I knew this one Russian Guy who wrote bad code. Lesson == There are good programmers and bad programmers everywhere . I think it is unfair to state something like this because of one coder. It was the fault of your company to keep this one guy for 2 years after writing "bad code" and it was unfortunate that you guys had to clean up the code. And I'm from Australia but I'm not sure of how things work in the US. I am not too familiar with what H1 visas mean But what I can't understand is why do people with H1 visas get paid lower for the same job as a local??
  • Dude! That rocks! :-)
  • Really?

    Do you have any cites on this?

  • Strictly speaking, the cost of hiring slave labour is zero dollars, but you can't get that sort of labour in the US marketplace. Of course, if you're still talking about H1-Bs, do a little research and find how many of those earn half than their American counterparts.

    The suggestion that the H1-B status quo is akin to that of a slave (or even and indentured servant) is false and immoral. There are plenty of places in the world where people are exploited and made to work in slave conditions. The US IT marketplace is not one of those.
    --

  • The Business 2.0 article states:

    "According to a report by the General Accounting Office, the average H-1B worker makes a salary of just $45,000; a bargain in comparison with the average salary of $53,814 for a programmer in Silicon Valley, according to Salary.com. "

    Isn't this interesting? They are comparing America-wide salaries to Silicon Valley salaries to make a point. They call this journalism? Not in my book, it's not.

  • As someone that has an H1-B, I think this is great...

    At times I feel like an indentured servant...

    This will give me the flexiblity to "shop around" while waiting for my Green Card

  • this is excellent (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    once h1-b's become job shoppers, the real need -- a so-called labor shortage -- is addressed, while competition continues to keep salaries aloft. Great kick in the pants for big business!
  • Sorry folks, it seems that companies would much rather hire someone that they can treat poorly because they are practically a slave than to train an American employee to perform the same task.(Who knows, that American employee just might leave if we treat them badly.) I think making it easier for H1B's to switch jobs is a step in the right direction, but still, why not just train an American to fill the role of an American job? I know plenty of skilled technical people who would love to get some additional training on their resumes. The payoff for the employer is a more skilled employee. This is very simple. It just really seems that many employers prefer having their own brand of slaves and our government lets them get away with it.
  • Wow! If this turns into the law...

    The article says that Bill Clinton signed the bill on Oct 17. Doesn't that mean that has turned into law already, or will do so as soon as the legal formalities are done?

  • Wow! If this turns into the law, that would be a major victory for workers rights. The politicians almost have no reason to try and overturn these laws, because they are purchased by the corporations, and the people who are treated like this are not citizens, so they cannot vote them out! Way to go US Government...maybe this will start a workers rights/consumers rights movement soon!

  • About time! (Score:4)

    by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Tuesday November 07, 2000 @02:57PM (#641407)
    What's particularly interesting is that Congress has now stated (in the "it is the sense of Congress that" sense of the word, not with actual dollars) that no transaction with INS ought to take more than six months.

    It's a start - a small start, but an important one - towards reforming the INS bureaucracy that's put countless lives on hold for years.

    And as for the H-1B bill being about "cheap labor", IMHO that's FUD. If you can't find the skills locally, you go abroad. Although there are companies that abuse the H-1B programme, the vast majority of companies that take advantage of it give their employees a fair shake -- and the reality is that if you're an employee who wants to join the US and get your Green Card, an H-1B is a damn good way to get your foot in the door.

    The only thing I question is this: Why is this on /. today? The law (originally bill S.2045) passed both houses weeks ago. Its provisions are hardly news.

  • I suppose you think we should ALL be paying $7 for a liter of gasoline. After all, the rest of the world is... Great, when do you want to implement one form of currency for the entire world?
  • *grumble* off to edit my junkbuster
    configuration file...

  • Re:About time! (Score:4)

    by Mr_Icon ( 124425 ) on Tuesday November 07, 2000 @03:20PM (#641410) Homepage

    What's particularly interesting is that Congress has now stated (in the "it is the sense of Congress that" sense of the word, not with actual dollars) that no transaction with INS ought to take more than six months.

    You might think it's funny, but it's not! I'm an H1-B worker and I went home in August to visit my family (I'm Russian). Before I left, I called the INS and asked them which papers I needed to get a visa and re-enter the country. Well, he said that all I needed were just two pieces of paper which I already had. So, I left.

    Unfortunately, I was misinformed by the INS -- I needed a whole bunch of other papers to get a visa to re-enter the country. (Just to clarify -- I was a student first and my H1-B status came through when I was in US on a student status, so I never had to get an H1-B visa per se prior to my August leave). One of the papers, a form I-129, which is original "Foreign worker" petition, was not on file with my employer, so they had to file a form with the INS to send them a copy of it. It's now November and we're still waiting for INS to send just a simple copy of a paper. No effort -- just find my file, and fax the document. We did get their receipt late in August, stating that we should be waiting for a reply within 80-120 days. 3 to 4 months to get a copy of a document! Absurd!

    So, I'm stuck. Thankfully, my employer didn't terminate my job (which they could!) and I can still admin my servers via the Interet (which costs per minute here).

    This ain't funny. I understand the waits when some decision-making is required, but heck -- just fax the friggin' paper!

  • I know some people who came to the US from India and other countries. Alot of times they get here they get a job and just like any of us they are not happy in the job or they find a better opportunity. Many of them take the pay that they do because it gets them over here and if they can save up the money then take it back to there country they are much better off. One guy I knew was saving up with his fater and brother and uncles and when they reach there goal they are all leaving the us. By passing this little h1b thing, they will be able to change jobs more freely and thus increase there salary as well. not that I blame them, it is good for all those that are coming over here. I think though that all those that think that this is a great thing to get 'cheap labor' from other countries are in for a big suprise.

    I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
    Flame away, I have a hose!

  • The article is pretty vague on the specifics.

    I think the "portability provision" means that you can move to a new H1B job when the papers are submitted to INS, not when they finally have approved them. Correct?

    Does it affect at all that in order to get a green card you need to stay at the same company for the full (3-6 years) INS processing time?

    When does it go into effect?

  • Fuck off you bastard!!!! You NEVER talk about a black man's mother like that, I'll fucking hunt you down bitch.
  • To keep a H1B employee there if an employeer pays for there visa which can cost about $2,500 they can bond them basicly saying since I paid for your to work visa you have to work here for X amount of years. I has a friend who went through this. But I am glad to see it is making it easier for foreign workers to move from job to job.

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