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Australian Consumer Body May Attack DVD Zoning. 151

Posted by CmdrTaco from the kill-it-for-us-to-please dept.
__Paul__ writes "The Age has a report that the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is considering launching an attack on DVD zoning, because it restricts competition. At least this Australian governmental body still has a clue, even if the rest of them don't." I lust after a DVD region free world. Its just such a pain.
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Australian Consumer Body May Attack DVD Zoning. More

Australian Consumer Body May Attack DVD Zoning.

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  • Exactly. You can bet that there are already sweatshops and factories churning out bootleg DVD players (along with the bootleg DVDs) all over the place, especially in countries like China. Fortune magazine had an article on the amount of counterfeiting done in China, and it is immense. You can bet that they love the concept of region codes, as they can produce bootlegs of region-coded DVD players to sell at lower costs and region-free DVD players to sell at higher costs (but still lower then non-bootleg DVDs, as the counterfeiters had to do no R&D and therefore don't have to recoup that money).

    So which would you rather have? A region-coded DVD player, or a region-free one that is most likely counterfeited, but so much more useful?

    Kierthos

  • Re:In a global world, this could be the end (Score:3)

    by Baki ( 72515 ) on Thursday December 21, 2000 @11:30PM (#1418841)
    So then America would have to blackmail the rest of the world again, threatening with trade war if others (Australia, Europe) don't do as the USA wishes, in order to protect US domestic industry.

    This has happened time after time, sometimes with success. It is to be hoped that such an anti-consumer measure as DVD zoning, and US backing of that (with threats and blackmail) would get so much negative public attention in the rest of the world that these maffia practices will no longer be accepted.
  • Yeah, I tend to think that if serious campaign reform managed to get passed by the House and Senate, we might see some changes. Until then, the big spenders that are the corps have the money to control the guvmint.

    I have to wonder how different it would be if every company that made DVD players was foreign based....

    Kierthos
  • This restriction only applies to .com.au; there's still .id.au (for individuals), .org.au (only for registered non-profit orgs) and .net.au
  • Is this a bad thing?
    Personally, I am impressed with countries that, both do the .co.au sort of deal with their TLD, and restrict the useage of the domain. Up until recently, .ca was restricted, in that only registered companies and organizations could get a .ca domain, and each could only get one. (until the registry was taken over by CIRA [www.cira.ca]). How, since it's a free-for-all, it will probably get cluttered by companies buying out every single word in the dictionary, just like .com/.net/.org ... .cx and .to

    I support the idea of only giving companies and registered organizations domains, and in that case, giving each only one. It encourages the use of subdomains, and it doesn't litter the namespace with useless domains, whose only purpose is because the domain was avaliable. (Free registration services like Name Zero [namezero.com] make this even worse). If you really want a domain, register a company (as i was going to do to obtain a .ca) The cluttering of the .com/.net/.org namespace has almost rendered the DNS system a bit impotent.

    Just my $0.02
    -legolas

    i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

  • Guns are inanimate objects. They have not, can not and never will do anything on their own. More Guns != More Crime

    Cars are inanimate objects. They have not, can not and never will do anything on their own. More Cars != More Pollution.

    Factories are inanimate objects. They have not, can not and never will do anything on their own. More Factories != More Production.

    --

  • In my opinion, it just takes one major country to step out of line to render the DVD zoning attempts by the industry moguls more or less obsolete.

    The way it's going it's going to be at least one continent given that New Zealand has already taken the same position.
  • Your site is full of intentional misunderstandings and ungrounded accusations, and the text consists of drivel with writing style like what is usually found in the texts handed out by various religious organizations to recruit new members.

    How about re-organizing your texts in such a fashion that one can get a complete picture of your ideas and grounding them on facts which you present with clear evidence?

  • DVDs and players produced in the US will continue to be zoned,

    How many players and DVDs are actually produced in the US anyway? At a guess the closest they'd get to being produced there would be Mexico.
  • Your tagline is three sentences. Your first two sentences are statements of fact. Fear the GOVERNMENT that fears your gun.
  • Democracy cannot exist when representatives and parties are allowed to get "funding", i.e. be bribed by lobby groups, i.e. those with most money to spend, the big corporations, get their way over the will of the people.

    It's probably worst, there are undoubtedly political lobby groups in the US who have managed to get tax revenue to fund their lobbying. e.g. those claiming to represent "oppressed minorities".


  • YOU are the one with intentional misunderstandings.

    As for ungrounded accusations, you only have to look at the background of many people involved in legal profession. By not allowing .REG - who are the ones making the most out of this?

    Writing is not one of my skills - mainly consists of logic and insight ;-)

    There are many facts in there for those with the *INTELLIGENCE* to see.

    Primarily: that an identifier, country and class are essential for Internet trademark domains.

    ALSO:

    That they stop free speech by not allowing people to use words they wish

    That they break unfair competition law giving only one business use of name when many others have it.

    That they steal peoples property off them.

    That they fail to protect us from fraud with certificate of authentication.

    ETC. ETC. ETC.
  • In a way they transcend the govt (within their jurisdiction), if they say that DVD's region coding is anticompetitive, and want to stop it, they can and will. If the govt gets enough pressure from outside, they'll knock back the ACCC's decision.

    Thing is, going against tbe ACCC is not wise, especially in an upcoming election year (can ye imagine govt election ads gettin' moderated heavier than opposition ones because of a grudge? =).

    The ACCC has and hopefully always will be the sane side of Australian law.

    Cheers,

    leroy.
  • You can bet that there are already sweatshops and factories churning out bootleg DVD players (along with the bootleg DVDs) all over the place,

    "bootleg" DVDs are utterly trival. Unless the production lines had the security of a mint. Either run off a few (thousand) extra or inflate the number of "duds".
  • We are a democracy "of the people, by the people, and for the people." (I think I got the order right) No mention of corporations there.

    Therefore I feel that no company or corporation should be allowed to give money to a politician. Not that I know of a practical solution to allow the rich and the poor to have equal influence on the government without restricting rights.

    Blarg.

  • Don't go thinking your country is backwards.

    French sued over Echelon, meanwhile the Americans government is still playing dumb

    Granted, but the DGSE, French secret service, has established listening posts [nacic.gov] in the Dordogne and overseas territories territories. Sure the French government admits to other government's spy network, but to be impressive they must admit to their own spy network.

    And now Australia...

    Admitly, Australia does appear to be on a higher horse than most others. They participate in Echelon, but without the automatic request program (the "dictionary program") rightfully claiming the program allows America and the UK to abuse it for industrial espionage. And now this dvd stuff is also credit to them.

    America, like all countries, has its room room for improvement. They can learn from aspects of other countries, like perhaps the "DVD perspective" aspect of Australia - but America doesn't "suck".
  • Most region free players sold here (Switzerland) also have the option to manually set the region, making it look 100% like a region 1 player, or a region 4 or whatever. This is exactly meant to play such DVD's (they already exist for a while).

    The biggest risk is the DVD manufacturers being forced to make DVD players where the zoning is harder (impossible?) to crack. If they don't cooperate they might loose their license to produce them.

    OTOH, with prices of players dropping, and also portable DVD players becoming more widespread, you might just buy one or two extra DVD players abroad to get the missing zones. Maybe in the future we'll all have 3 DVD players because of this crazy zoning scheme.

    Unless the DVD Mafia even gets to control worldwide trade there's not much they can do about that. Once they try that, politicians might finally realise what bunch of criminals they have been supporting.


  • To expand further on my considered and informed opinions.

    Many of the people involved have worked in legal profession. They have been asked why they do not introduce .REG to solve many of the trademark problems.

    They do not deny that it will solve the problems and make things legal. They are unable to think of excuse not to use it. Others in the legal profession have told me it will solve problems (honourable people).

    Big business may not like it - but in law we all have to abide by rules.

    Come on then big shot. What do you logically deduce from this?

  • I thought there already was a Barbie on every beach in California. Several, in fact, and a considerable number of Kens too.
  • BTW I believe that zone'd players such as DVD players are illegal in New Zealand, instead players must be all zone or zone selectable.
    Yeah, I heard that rumour, but I also heard since then that it isn't true.
  • We finally got it working on a friend's PC, and watched it. It was great, we all enjoyed it.
  • Situation 1: Australian law dictates that DVD player manufacturers do not have to stick to the MPAA's rules on region encoding.

    In Denmark it is almost easier to get a code free player than a non-free one. There is absolutely nothing in Danish law stating that a dvd player must use the region codes. So from many dealers you get one or more of these options:

    • Get a player that will only play region 2 discs. (If you get it cracked later it will void the warranty)
    • Pay a little extra and they will crack it for you. (You still get full warranty)
    • They have already cracked it so you don't even get a choice.
    All of the above are fully legal. We got everything from small dealers to large chains selling code-free players. I can't speak for the rest of europe but i would imagine other countries would be like that too(?)

  • We suck (Score:5)

    by AcidMonkey ( 188562 ) on Thursday December 21, 2000 @10:39PM (#1418862)
    I consider myself a patriotic American, but lately...well, we suck.

    The French sued over Echelon, meanwhile the Americans government is still playing dumb with the citizens.

    American courts are taking cues from American (or international-but-mostly-American) corporations to bully 16-year-old kids on the other side of the world.

    And now Australia, which is not generally big in world politics (no offense), is the one to step up and say "hey, this sucks!" to the MPAA.

    My fellow Americans...we're doing something wrong!

  • DVDs cost about a buck to make - not much different from a video cassette. And prices are getting cheaper all the time so much so that PC magazines ship DVDs on their covers

    More likely similar costs to CD's since they are a similar technology. Video Cassettes are likely to cost far more. Since they use more material and the production is more complex/labour intensive.
  • While the Aussie Government occasionally shows some signs of intelligent life, keep in mind that they're the same ones that passed internet censorship laws unparalleled in the free world. Personally I prefer our government, which is uniformly stupid and therefore much more predictable. That way you don't have to worry about getting your hopes up.
  • "The RPC system may be sued to prevent cheap imports."

    The world is in a constant downward spiral as a result of everyone infinitely suing everyone else. Is it not obvious that the world revolves around money? Can't we just do things for each other and be happy? Apparently we are too far gone for such a thing, but wouldn't it be nice.

    I like cheese.

  • In a global world, this could be the end (Score:4)

    by Kiss the Blade ( 238661 ) on Thursday December 21, 2000 @10:42PM (#1418866) Journal
    In my opinion, it just takes one major country to step out of line to render the DVD zoning attempts by the industry moguls more or less obsolete. I say this because the world has now become so sonnected in both the communicative and physical sense, that if Australia bans DVD zoning, its as though a place in my backyard has done so; its no problem to import the players and DVD's from Australia itself.

    The only way I can see my vision being thwarted is if the major film companies decide to boycot the Australian market alltogether. It may be worth it for them, financially, in the short term to do so, but I think the ire and publicity would be too much.

    God bless Australia fair.

    KTB:Lover, Poet, Artiste, Aesthete, Programmer.

  • I consider it my civic duty to rip off DVD and Hollywood media manufacturers whenever possible. Problem is, I tend to neglect my duties because 99% of Hollywood's output sucks complete and total lame-ass shit.

    Just to put the debate to rest:

    Tom Cruise IS indeed a fucked up scientologist dipshit with a demon grafted onto his head. And yet people still pay to watch his stupid movies. Stupid, Stupid Americans. You will all burn. Ha Ha Ha!

    The best movie I saw in 2000 came from Italy;

    "Tulips & Breadcrumbs." Go watch. (Or "Breadcrumbs & Tulips". I dyslexic am.)

    -Fantastic Lad --The most frustrated Lad of them all!

  • Too bad... (Score:3)

    by Amomynous Coward ( 256120 ) on Thursday December 21, 2000 @10:43PM (#1418868)


    ...other government agencies couldn't "think" so clearly.

    But ACCC chairman Professor Allan Fels says they also act to keep prices high by restricting competition.
    "These restrictions are artificially imposed by a group of multinational film entertainment companies," Professor Fels said.

    It's a good bet we won't see any US agencies speaking out the same way. And that's a shame.


  • Re:We suck (Score:5)

    by Jedi Alec ( 258881 ) on Thursday December 21, 2000 @10:43PM (#1418869)
    My fellow Americans...we're doing something wrong!

    Seems the Aussi's will be our next world leaders. Guess I'll have to practice on my English, eh?
  • Tulips & Breadcrumbs is essentially a Hayo Miyazaki film, not animated, with Italian actors, and directed by some guy who isn't Miyazaki, and who's name I can't remember but which I will surely soon know by heart as he currently resides on my top 5 list of favorite creators.

    If you can find his movie, you win a prize because it ain't easy to locate. (After all, it's got the entire weight of the American Film Distribution muscle behind it. Like, waaaay behind it. Like in a different time zone, behind it. Sitting on its fat ass jerking off over Charlie's Slutz dolls.).

    America is an evil fucking joke. You need a violent & bloody revolution BAD. Noook Dubyah. It's your only hope.

    Fantastic Lad --The greatest costumed Lad of them all!

  • This is rather interesting, especially coming out of a government which over the past two terms of power have shown a great arrogance towards anything which may boost Info Tech or any other form of Technology in this country.

    Oh for the election in 2001!

    Must not have Liberal Party henchmen on it's board.
  • probably more like 'enterprise-is-free-to-do-anything-they-want' which includes dictating sales conditions.



  • Its just such a pain.

    Apparently CT believes the proper use of apostrophies ranks right up there with DVD zoning. For those interested in leet skills like correct grammar, the word "it's" is a contraction of "it" and "is". On the other hand, "its" is a possesive pronount. You can check by breaking it out as in "It is just such a pain."


    Seth
  • Here in Germany it is no problem to get a code-free DVD-Player. I got a Pioneer DV-535, and I only paid $40 to remove the code-chip AND the Macrovision chip.

    Merry Christmas from germany.
  • They done a good job of messing around with cable ISPs, but they don't really have a great deal of juristiction over this do they? Can they force Australia DVD players to be multi-region? I doubt it.

  • Region Coding == More Piracy!! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Average Joe User can't play his import copy of 'Dogma' - learns about region coding, and goes looking for a multi-region hack. Whist doing so, he discover's Macrovision removers, DeCSS, DiVX ;-) etc...
  • Most shops selling or renting DVDs in Switzerland have about 25% region 1 DVD's, the rest being region 2. This only shows how common it is to have multiregion DVD players.

    Btw there is a small difference between multiregion and regionfree: Multiregion means it switches to a region, in a way the DVD cannot "see" it. Some DVD's don't play in regionfree players, but multiregion cannot be defeated (should it not work automatically you can always set the region manually).
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • >Our fashions, such as the scooter craze, are direct copies of America's.

    Actually some Yanks we had staying with us for the Olympics were out buying scooters (Razor clones) while they were here because they really hard to find in the USA - so "go figure".

    - Zilch
  • The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is a vigorous body that backed by powerful Australian trade practices law (the infamous Trade Practices Act), has proven itself on previous occasions to be unafraid of tackling multinational organisations in the name of consumer rights. It was the ACCC that stared down Epson forcing them to revise globally campaigned performance claims for inkjet printers. A disturbing ambivalence in the ACCC press release pertaining to DVD regional encoding related to their concern with consumer awareness as opposed to the obvious inequities in the encoding philosophy itself. My faith remains however in the ACCC's proven ability to influence global trade practices out of all proportion to the size of the Australian population and its willingness to respond to consumer pressure. www.accc.gov.au Email your support soon and often...
  • Actually, most movies available on tape cost around $20 apeice before DVD's came out. Now DVD's cost $20 a pop and VHS tapes are starting at about $12 (with the "bargin bin" tapes going for $8).

    VHS got cheaper -- dvd's didn't get more expensive.
  • LOL LOL LOL

    Don't be silly. We are already an American state.... aren't we?

    Professor_Phreek
  • "I was born in the French-speaking spot of America known as Québec"

    When the hell did the US annex Quebec? Or, alternatively, when the hell did Canada start calling itself America?

  • "I Believe the world is down under and Australia is on top..."

    So get ready and start building a barby on every beach in California, we'll pay you a visit soon...

  • Nice troll.

    Rich

  • OK, totally off topic rant here. Be forewarned...

    Free world, free world, free world!!! What the fuck is the free world? I'll tell you--the free world is the USA, and it allies of the week. That's what people mean when they use the term, and it all goes back to George Bush (sr.) claiming to be the Leader Of The Free World. (and we abuse Al Gore for his 'inventing the internet' slip, which was taken out of context???)

    Well fuck the free world, the poor enslaved world (everyone else, presumably) and the lot of it. The irony of the US (of all places!) being the leader of the free world is just sickening. I propose we ban the phrase from common use.

    Whew! OK, end of rant.

  • Um, people are doing things for each other. Those who know how to make DVD players region-free are doing so. Much to the enjoyment of us all (unless you work for a DVD company).

    Kierthos
  • My multiregion hack does not allow me to set it manually. I haven't got a DVD that doesn't work yet, but I know they're out there and that I'll soon have one I can't play ...

    Sony 715 - hack also removes macrovision. No manual with the hack ... (installed by the store)

  • "It was announced today by one of Bush's top advisors that the United States would enter into a trade blockage with Australia and the countries of Europe over their DVD players."

    See how silly that sounds?

    BTW, any idea what the WTO's stance on this is? (Not that I care, really.) Is Australia even a member of the WTO?

    Kierthos
  • My country maybe. The Netherlands. After the law for 'legal killing' we just implemented a few extra riots won't call much attention.
  • now if only the individual countries competition commisions could get together rather than doing this unilaterally there would be some real power do actaully chnage all this zone stuff.
  • I think there is the distinct possibility that other countries will outlaw zoning, but that doesn't mean that the US will be the same, regardless of what those other countries do. DVDs and players produced in the US will continue to be zoned, and I'm betting most of the DVD's produced in other countries will be zoned as well, just to squeeze the US consumers more, even if the players themselves play from anywhere.

    I'd love to see zoning go away in the US, where it needs to go away most (the home market is the most important market of all) but I just don't think it will. People just don't see how it hurts them because most people aren't even aware that zoning exists.

    "I may not have morals, but I have standards."
  • Sorry, I don't have time to reply. I have to set up a DVD business in Aussi-land...

  • Re:Already illegal in New Zealand (i think) (Score:3)

    by Zilch ( 138261 ) on Friday December 22, 2000 @12:14AM (#1418894)
    Yeah, I have heard something about that before, but I have been away from NZ (and watching one-eyed Aussie TV for too long) to keep up with the news over there. Can anyone elaborate?

    It would fit in with NZ's ideas on "the freedom to parallel import" (and the freedom to sell lamb in the USA) quite well. They already told Chrysler to get knotted when they tried to stop people bring in second hand cars. (Not that anyone buys American cars over there anyway - Ha!)

    I would even be happy if they just made it 100% legal to de-region players in NZ. Not that it is hard to find region-free players over there, but it could be a good industry for them - selling DeCSS based software and hacked firmware updates to US customers!

    Also if everyone in NZ started buying DVD's from the overseas on the Internet (or off someone who had) then they would eventually have to drop the price of disks there, bring out a better selection, and start playing movies in the cinemas on time (rather than 6 months after the rest of the world).

    Zilch
  • Hey, if Australia doesn't want that consignment of PS2's, we'll take 'em...

    There does seem to be a plethora of PS2s here. I thought they were supposed to be quite rare. Perhaps the $A800+ price tag is quelling demand.
  • You are a total moron. Everyday Americans like myself aren't the least bit responsible for Hollywood or the MPAA. Just like your crackwhore mom isn't responsible that gave birth to such a dumbass as yourself. She should of flushed you.
  • The problem isn't in players, silly. It's in the availability of DVD movies in other regions.

  • Re:We suck (Score:3)

    by sulli ( 195030 ) on Friday December 22, 2000 @07:13AM (#1418898) Journal
    You are absolutely right.

    DVD region encoding is one of the most insidious technologies out there today - it enforces a multi-tier world in which only some people have the right to see and hear stuff. Although it probably isn't illegal under the First Amendment, it is terrible for folks who live in other regions - and can be used to enforce censorship by the authorities there.

    Perhaps a similar lawsuit could be filed here? Is there an antitrust case to be made against the MPAA and DVD licensors? "Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal" under the Sherman Antitrust Act [usdoj.gov], after all.

  • While I wholeheartedly agree that DVD zoning is a bad idea and harmful to consumers, the free marketer in me has to admit that the DVD licensors have the right to establish zones if they want. What's missing is an alternative to DVD. Competition won't really exist until there's an alternative format, or unless DVD becomes an open format so everyone can play on an equal footing.

    Now if only someone with the capital and inkling would wake up and develop an alternative format to DVD that was more attractive to consumers--then we'd have competition and the DVD zoning issue would just go away due to natural selection.
  • Its just money money money.

    We have out old colonies that we are tring to prop up (for if we dont they will ask for cash), and you have corrupt politicians taking bags of cash from south american countries.

    Makes the world go round, don't yer know.

    F
  • All the DVDs I have bought from Hong Kong are region free. They may not always have the highest quality added features, but at least the market is smart enough there to realize they can make more money by selling to the world rather than a variety of regions. In that regard, not having major international distribution capability is an *advantage* in the market. Maybe if the Australian film and distribution industry went region free, then we'd have a story.

  • More to it than this... (Score:3)

    by wish bot ( 265150 ) on Friday December 22, 2000 @12:24AM (#1418902)
    The Australian Consumer and etc commission is actually an *independent* body, seperate from the Government (although funded by). It is set up to challenge actions *it* regards as damaging to competition. You have to realise that this body takes its job *very* seriously, and does actually have huge powers (defined by Australian law - so actually anyone could make this claim, but the ACCC just has the nouse to do it). If it decides that DVD zoning is harming competition, then it will use the courts to made it illigal in Aus. It should also be noted that it wasn't so long ago they broke the music industry's monoploly by allowing cheap asian imports. This could turn into a very good thing
  • >I'd love to see zoning go away in the US, where it needs to go away most (the home market is the most important market of all) but I just don't think it will. People just don't see how it hurts them because most people aren't even aware that zoning exists. It needs to go away there the _least_ because that's where they already have the biggest selection and most competition. It's the countries in the "smaller zones" that need the help. Zilch
  • Well, coming from Australia this is a great idea! I have just discovered my computer is severely restricted as it's DVD drive is region restricted and can only be modified a few more times before it stays stuck in the last zone it was modified to(Bad news if it's not whatever region Australia is)It's about time someone (esp. Aust) said something about this crap.
  • I disagree. Lets take situations and extrapolate.

    Situation 1: Australian law dictates that DVD player manufacturers do not have to stick to the MPAA's rules on region encoding.

    Result 1: They carry on, because they might lose their licence in other jurisdictions (such as USA).

    Situation 2: Australian law forbids the selling of region-locked DVD players.

    Result 2: You can play most previous DVDs, but RCE discs still won't play.

    Situation 3: Australian monopolies commission forbid DVD-CCA members from trading within Australia

    Result 3: Possible public outcry, but it ain't going to happen anyway

    I don't see a win situation - can you think of any others, or do you disagree with any of the above?
  • They could quite possibly do this...though it would be a show down I would love to see :)~ See my post above somewhere - the ACCC does actually have pretty huge powers.

  • Idiot (Score:1)

    by Zilch ( 138261 )
    VHS is auto-regioning because of the differences between formats. Have you heard if PAL/NTSC? (SECAM?)

    This is the type of control that the big players are trying to artificially maintain by region codes.

    (And yes, I will ignore the fact that VHS is poor quality - I think even you realise that)

    Zilch
  • See my post above. The chances are these movies are not going to be out on VHS either. And if CD's are anything to go by, in a few years you won't be able to get many of the movies on crappy VHS anymore.

    Zilch
  • The Rules of DVD and how they hurt consumers [not just RPC and CSS]

    * Consumers have to pay inflated local prices, becuase unlike books and CDs, we can't get content overaseas at resonable prices that works with our system

    * Limited range of titles - especially those of us who are fans of foreign cinema

    * Being forced to wait until a movie has been released at the cinemas locally and had a full run before we can own a film. As an example of that, Bring it On has just been released in Australia. In the US, its been out on DVD for quite some time.

    * Inability for consumers to create content on DVDRs due to the relevant bits already being pre-written as part of licensing for the technology

    * Users are forced to sit through anti-copyright statements and DVD consortium ads, with a disabled fast forward button. Many movies force the user to sit through the same copyright statement in a variety of languages before the movie starts. The DVD versions of current [one minute or so] VHS anti-copyright advertisements are inevitable.

  • And one of the big ones to think about is the PS2, which I'm betting is going to be the DVD player in most homes all over the globe.
    I don't think this will be the case in Europe, considering Sony seem to think you would want to watch a DVD through a coaxial cable, having cunningly disabled the SCART output, supposedly to defeat piracy. Why bother with a PS2 as DVD player if the picture quality isn't much better than a VHS tape?


  • My tagline is three sentences. Each sentence is a statement of fact. How does that not show clear thought?


  • Re:In a global world, this could be the end (Score:4)

    by nstrug ( 1741 ) on Friday December 22, 2000 @01:29AM (#1418912) Homepage
    Any sillier than the current trade war between Europe and the US over bananas - which are not produced in either country/trade bloc?
  • "The RPC system may be sued to prevent cheap imports."

    The funny thing is that sued is obviously a typo for used...



  • In my considered and informed opinion:

    They use zoning to screw as much profit out of each market place - GREED. We in the UK are specially profitable to them.

    Intellectual Property is the excuse big business use in the courts for this greed. We as individuals have no rights in this area - see what the United Nations organization WIPO are doing, stealing peoples domains.

    Details on my site - WIPO.org.uk [wipo.org.uk] - This Organization has no connection with, and wishes to be totally disassociated from, the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO.ORG [wipo.org]).
  • The thing that really upsets me about the DVD zoning, on top of the principle (which we all knew was going to happen, Britain isn't going to stop being ripped off by American companies) is the practical results. I know /loads/ of people who were really looking forward to DVD because it would finally mean that if a video was released anywhere, we'd finally get to see it - so all those great things we'd always wanted to see again, but were available in PAL we'd finally see. I'm very glad the region-encoding has been cracked, though it kinda upsets me that we're finally getting to see good things we want to /in spite/ of the publishers, not because of them!
  • No market, no goods. That's why you don't have region-free DVD players.

    That's one of the reasons, but not the most important one.

    Most titles are also available in Europe, albeit a little later every now and then. Although that wasn't the case for Jurassic Park, Gladiator or Virgin Suicides, those titles were available in Europe as soon as or in case of the latter title even sooner than the USA. There are also quite a few European region 2 releases not on region 1. Of course not the big Hollywood releases, but if you're a fan of Dr. Who or current english series such as Cold Feet, you're a lot better of with region 2.

    I think the biggest reason is simply the MPAA/DVD-CCA having a much stronger position in Northern America than Europe. While I cannot say I agree with all decision of the European Commity regarding technology issues, it does seem that European consumers have more rights than American ones or at least better ways to protect and use those rights.

  • What makes one think that as a foreign consumer they are "entitled" to see movies faster than the pace the movie industry wants? It's their industry.

    True, but that does not give the industry unlimited control over how their products are used after they are sold. See the "first sale" and "fair use" doctrines, both of which the DMCA unconstitutionally attempts to destroy. If I'm in the US and I want to buy a Japanese DVD, certainly the movie producer is not obligated to sell it to me. However, if I find a willing seller who obtained their copy legally, the producer should have no authority to prevent that exchange. But region coding and DMCA-backed penalties for circumventing it do in fact prohibit that, which is just one of many reasons why both should be eliminated.

  • not convenience, fair use (Score:3)

    by Quietti ( 257725 ) on Friday December 22, 2000 @01:58AM (#1418935) Journal

    I'll give you two examples of what fair use means, and how DVD's encryption breaks it:

    1. I was born in the French-speaking spot of America known as Québec, but now live in Europe. Recently, my family sent me a DVD of a local production that became quite popular there, but I could not view it because it was encrypted for America, while my DVD player only accepts discs encoded for Europe.

      It doesn't stop there.

    2. I also happen to speak Russian and recently wanted to view DVD re-issues of classic movies from the Soviet era that some Russian friends recommended. I cannot, because Russia is in a different zone than Europe, so my DVD player refused to show them.

    In effect, DSS prevented me from viewing two legally purchased DVD's, simply because of the Motion Picture Industry's greedy attitude.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, the more countries that follow New Zealand's lead and demand zoneless DVD players, the merrier.


    --

  • As an Australian.. (Score:5)

    by Rob from RPI ( 4309 ) <xrobau@gmail.com> on Thursday December 21, 2000 @10:45PM (#1418938) Homepage
    May I say, simply, YES! Thank you, Australian Government! However, I hate to admit, our goverment is so spineless (an amobea has more of a verterbre than our current government) that Sony or someone will frown slightly, or raise an eyebrow, and the guys in the big-white-funny-looking-building will do their usual belly-crawling and say 'Oh no, it was a big misunderstanding'

    No, not cynical. Realistic.

    --Rob

    Comics:
    Sluggy.com [sluggy.com] - Poing!

  • already illegal in new zealand (i think) (Score:4)

    by elbobo ( 28495 ) on Thursday December 21, 2000 @10:47PM (#1418939)
    i believe (although i may be wrong), that dvd region restrictions are already illegal in new zealand. or rather, they break an already in place law.

    so any player you buy in nz is multi-region. certainly all the players i've bought have been unrestricted.

    can anyone confirm this one for me? and are there other countries where this is already the case?

    matt
  • ...or Packer will say he wants to roll out HDTV and Mr Howard will jump to it and get it done.

    Representation of the people at it's best.

  • I think the flip-side to that argument is that while DVD producers should be allowed to create zones and only create players that match those zones, other people should not be restricted from reverse engineering their format and making zone-free players.

    Otherwise in a competitive race between zoned and un-zoned media, distributors are naturally more likely to go with the zoned option because it helps them keep more direct control over their media.

    I think the only way an alternative zone-free format could succeed in direct competition is if and when there's some obvious commercial advantage for distributors not to zone their information. Even then, the new format would have to offer more, and be well supported.


    ===

  • Warner warns us ? (and others issues) (Score:4)

    by mirko ( 198274 ) on Thursday December 21, 2000 @11:01PM (#1418947) Journal
    I recently heard on the radio that Warner are about (if they had not already done it) to implement a test in their DVD movies : If the player is region-free, then the film will "refuse" to be played.
    IMHO this is illegal and will force them to reimburse most of the people I know who bought their player before 1999/12/31st.
    Maybe some "clever" law from Down-under has just made a step further.
    BTW, "they" justify DVD-zoning by talking about the non-simultaneous movie availability around the world.
    So : Why are "The Ten Commandments" only available in Zone 1 and not in Zone 0 ???
    Is it about to be broadcasted in some hidden part of the globe (or on Mir) ?

    --
  • It's a good bet we won't see any US agencies speaking out the same way. And that's a shame.

    It's also a damn good bet you wont see a SINGLE solitary media agency in the US even report this story, which is just pathetic.

    My wife was slightly happy at the money that we saved this Xmas again, as I still refuse to own a DVD player or disc. My hard-earned dollars still do not go to Jack Valenti or any of his lawyers.

    Remember to keep handing out 2600.com's flyers and inform the rest of the world of what is happening in the world around them.

  • Region Free (Score:3)

    by ShadowDragon ( 40886 ) on Thursday December 21, 2000 @11:03PM (#1418950) Homepage

    Way to go Australia!!

    I had to flash my DVD drive and decoder card to region-free it.

    I pay a buttload of money to get obscure French DVD's for my collection and since they are not made in anything but Region 2 I do not see why those in non-region 2 zones should not be able to watch them. I can see maybe for those who try to pick up stuff from a country that sells them much cheaper.. but the DVD market would likely make more money by going region free, not everyone is willing/knows how to flash their DVD drives and such to be able to view rare disks

  • What makes one think that as a foreign consumer they are "entitled" to see movies faster than the pace the movie industry wants? It's their industry.

    If I want a PS2, I wait for it to be released in the US. I don't go out and import one from Japan. How will they know where it ends up?

  • Countries exist, where getting something for free is legal.

    Name one country where a copyrighted movie, coming from another country, is "legal" to be released for free.

  • Re:This is such crap! (Score:3)

    by Fervent ( 178271 ) on Friday December 22, 2000 @01:00AM (#1418958)
    If you don't like the restriction codes, why not buy VHS copies of foreign films you are interested in? That's what I do (owning a DVD player and a movie player have distinct advantages).

  • Re: we suck (Score:3)

    by cyber-vandal ( 148830 ) on Friday December 22, 2000 @01:01AM (#1418959) Homepage
    the Americans government is still playing dumb

    Not just playing anymore now that Dubya is the boss.
  • I'm against the fact that some movies won't be available in all regions.

    Again, buy VHS for the movies that are not yet available in DVD in your area.

  • 95% of all dvd-players are region-free
    in Denmark. It is not illegal to sell a
    region-protected (broken) dvd-player but
    no-one wants to be them.

  • Re:In a global world, this could be the end (Score:3)

    by Baki ( 72515 ) on Friday December 22, 2000 @02:21AM (#1418965)
    Not silly at all, though it wouldn't be stated that obviously. There are blockades going on all the time. At the moment it is about beef (with hormones, which the EU doesn't want but US claims it is only a protective measure), bananas, and countermeasures, and countermeasures on that.

    If you would read some (non-US?) papers you would know that global trade is a war going on. And the US is, to put it mildly, not one of the most peaceloving nations in that respect. It uses it's (trade)power to support US domestic industry, at expense of foreign and consumer interests.

    US restricts imports from state subsidized foreign companies (which is OK), but at the same time gives special tax cuts for US based companies exports (which is also state subsidizing).

    In this context: the US pushes more and more strict copyright and IP laws through, everywere around the world. Almost all pushes towards more stringent Intellectual Property protection, software patents etc come after US pressure. Since they know that most profitors of IP and copyright protection (i.e. media content providers, software producers etc) are located in the US, thus US gains and the rest looses from stricter protection in these areas.

    I am very sure that if, say, China would have the worlds major software producers, that the US would not at all be so eager to get more and more stringent IP protection laws such as the DMCA, crazy patent system etc.

    Thus, I would not be surprised at all if a future US government would impose trade restrictions upon states that do not enforce the DVD zoning mechanism.

  • What this REally Means (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 22, 2000 @02:25AM (#1418966)
    If the ACCC "does" act against DVD zoning, then australia will be the SECOND country in the asia region to do so ( New Zealand being the first). So what does this mean to the movies companies and MPAA and australians: Australia is about >10% of the total consumers in the zone 4 area, of which there are 25 or so countries, which equals to no big financial profit. If the supply of new released zone 4 movies were to be stopped (in australia), that would be ok, we'll just import them from Mexico . The ONLY major concern to movie companies and the MPAA, is the fact that ANTI-ZONING "law" might spread to the other Asia countries (which is currently divided into 4 different zones). This would mean that the movies companies would loss control over distribution and "price inflation" two over two billion consumers. Big Bucks!!!! This will leave the movie companies with only one last card, restrict supply. But no chance in that happening, that would only incourage people to pirate DVDs. In the end the most real outcome will be that australia and the rest of asia will be full of imported DVDs and pirated DVD. No matter what governments and the movie companies do. People are only interested in watching the movie, and paying the lowest price.
  • I wrote a letter to my local member in the Australian Federal Parliament, and he forwarded this onto the Attorney General. This shows they listen. So everyone else do it too.

    Dear Attorney General, I have recently received a letter from one of my constituents, Mr Cameron Gray, concerning international and Australian policy toward the decryption of digital information for personal use. Whilst Mr Gray strongly agrees that copyright should be legally protected, and that the owners of information should be duly paid for their product, he is concerned that copyright legislation is being used by private corporations to simply enforce market monopolies, to the detriment of the consumer. Mr Gray argues that copyright legislation as it now stands prevents a person from developing software to bypass access controls, even where the viewing of the material so protected is entirely legal. An instance he provides is software that allows a person to view DVDs from other countries. He informs me that under current legislation, the development of this software is currently illegal, which reinforces market monopolies but is not related to effective protection of copyright. In the new information age, it is desirable for laws to allow as much access to digital information as possible without infringing rightful copyright. I would appreciate your consideration of Mr Gray's concerns, and your response as to how the Government will preserve the right of Australians to access the digital information now available locally and internationally. Thank you for your consideration of this matter and I look forward to your reply. Yours sincerely DR BRENDAN NELSON MP Federal Member for Bradfield

    Sorry about the formatting. I just copy/pasted from WordPerfect.
  • At least in Europe, region-free players are quite common, even the popular/class-A brands sell them. The lesser known brands even have players for sale with the Macrovision protection removed.

    Furthermore, it's not much hassle to import region 1 titles either, plenty of Internet stores such as ThunderDVD.com and Bigstar.com to send me the goodies.

    I haven't bothered to check regioncodes for many months now. And even if regionfree players aren't for sale where you live: there are plenty of websites to tell you your player can be turned into one with a $25 all-in-one remote-control.

  • The irony behind this whole situation is that the regions are supposed to stop DVD piracy but what sort of pirate is not going to know how to modify their player to play all regions? Meanwhile people who actually buy DVDs and DVD players get screwed with higher prices and an unnecessary annoyance.

    I'm glad the government of a large country is starting to at least think about standing up to these media companies. We all know the US Congress is owned and paid for by these companies so don't expect any help from over here...
  • If anyone is still in doubt that DVDs are ripoff, just consider:
    1. DVDs cost about a buck to make - not much different from a video cassette. And prices are getting cheaper all the time so much so that PC magazines ship DVDs on their covers.
    2. The cost of mastering only adds pennies to the bottom line.
    3. Manufacturers (especially European) save money by printing a single run of DVDs with multiple language and subtitles that can be sold in multiple countries.
    4. DVDs sell for double the price vs the same title on VHS. Some bargain bin VHS titles are a third or a quarter the price of the same title on DVD.
    5. They take up half the floor space in a store vs VHS thus doubling profitability of that space.
    6. They weigh half as much as VHS and their reduced volumn makes them considerably cheaper to ship.

    If you account for all these things DVDs should be cheaper that video tapes. Unfortunately consumer ignorance prevailed just like it did with CDs - "DVDs are better quality therefore they must cost more to make and I must pay more!". Now we're stuck with the outrageous scam prices.

  • Just curious... how do you have a bootleg DVD player? It pretends to play DVDs, but is really a CD player? It plays them upside down? Only plays code -1 bootleg DVDs? =^)

    -legolas

    i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

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