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Television Media

Hacking DirecTV over TCP/IP using Linux 301

siliconshock writes: "It seems that you can now connect your Directv receiver to a Linux box and then using TCP/IP to connect accoss the Internet and emulate a valid DirecTV account enabling all channels.... Oh yea, and of course it open source :) Full story. To dtv hackers this means that you dont have to have an access card at your physical location! It can be located accoss the country, or better yet in another country all together." This seems one more step toward the fabled digital convergence, too.
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Hacking DirecTV over TCP/IP using Linux

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:31PM (#126170)
    First DeCSS, Napster, and now this. This will do nothing to further enhance the public image of Linux users as lawless criminals and rebels of society.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @07:34PM (#126171)
    Yes it is hacking. And it'd a damn fine one too.

    Please allow me to explain.

    You see, regardless of your beliefs on DirecTV, DSS and the DMCA, we're NOT TALKING ABOUT THE USA. We're talking about Canada.

    Canada doesn't have the DMCA on the books. And the DSS signal is probably being illegally broadcast in Canada, which, in case you didn't know, in outside the juris diction of the FCC. So in that respect the signal is fair game to those in Canada.

    That simple fact and a couple of Canadian court rulings in favor of the DSS hackers buys a get-out-of-jail card north of the border.

    So DirecTV is stealing usable frequency space in Canada, and the Canadians are happily stealing the broadcast feeds off those unlicensed signals.

    That seems pretty darn fair.

    Moreover, since the DMCA doesn't apply to Canadians. The Canadians *do* have more rights than Americans here. They can distribute any and all devices that circumvent any encryption scheme. Especially those illegal ones that happen to be broadcast over the boarder.

    There's also a question of what actually constitutes "stealing". The Canadian hackers did not "deprive" the use of the DSS signal from the DirecTV satellite service. So "stealing" doesn't quite work here. A more accurate statement might be "It's Unauthorized Decryption". Yes it is. And it's also not illegal, at least in canada. But use of the term "theft" here makes one think of a far larger insidious deed than was perpetrated, While free TV is a legal possible outcome, under law, it is not "theft".

    And the last thing you were wrong about is the hack itself. Yes, indeed, it's a damn fine hack. This wasn't some two-bit script kiddie reading some t-phile on how the interface worked, no this was a serious piece of reverse engineering. I'll refresh your memory here. A script kiddie, can't by definition write c code. Otherwise he'd be known as a c-kiddie or maybe a "1337" hacker.

    So, in the future. Don't play loosey-goosey with the language. 'k?

  • As cool as it was that DirecTV came up with a neat techincical solution to their problem, you can bet the reason why they did this was because it was a more cost effective solution than sending in the lawyers.
  • Finally, I'm beginning to see the fruits of all that "trying to make bits not copyable is like trying to make water not wet" talk.

    People are finding ways around the arcane protection that these companies think will protect them.

    Soon there will be a day when everyone knows that bits are copyable, and the stream/data they combine to create can and will be twisted for individuals personal use. On that day someone will just give up and do the thing that should have been done from day one: keep information free; charge for extensions to that service, like... well stuff that hasn't been thought up yet.

    In the meantime learn to program in your favorite language (or C if you don't have a favorite language) and start taking stuff apart, and adding bits to existing stuff. There's enough creative energy out there to create some really impressive stuff.
  • According to the documentation [skie.net], "pitou is based on an existing freeware GPL'ed 8052 simulator called ucsim". Clearly you can just demand a copy of the source code to pitou from the developer [mailto] since they are forced to GPL their work since it's derived from an existing GPL'd codebase.

    If you'd like a copy of the source, I suggest you simply email the author and demand it. They have no right to withhold the source since they've used GPL'd code.

    (This is, of course, assuming that they haven't negotiated an alternative license from the author of the original project.)

  • While this may be true, what nerg343 apparantly doesn't realize is that he has no choice of license. He must release pitou under the GPL because pitou is a derivative of ucsim which is GPL'd code. When you use GPL'd code to build your product, you lose the freedom to choose your own license.

    It is a violation of the GPL for pitou to not be released using the GPL.

  • I based myself on a GPL'ed program, so I will have to release the source eventually. I want to get it out of beta first.
    Yet another person that doesn't understand that by releasing the source right away, not "eventually because the GPL forces me to", he'll get other people helping to add neat features and even fix bugs.

    Well, if he's serious about releasing it when it gets out of beta, and if he has a reasonable criteria for that, it's OK. But "out of beta" could potentially mean anything, including "never".

    It should also be noted that the GPL does NOT offer an exception for beta or pre-beta code. The GPL requires him to offer the source code for every binary release he does. From a legal point of view, it is not clear whether anyone other than the original author of the GPL'd code would have standing to force him to do it, though.

    Of course, since I'm in the US I wouldn't be able to use it anyhow.

  • well people that were running online gambling sites off-shore were still asked to come to court for the 1961 Wire something Act (having to do w/placing bets across Intl lines/state lines). One guy did (from the Carribean) and he was prosecuted.

    They still could *attempt* to bust him.
  • rust and bad contacts can make a rectifier. Some people have heard radio stations coming from old bridges! POW's used to make radios out of razor blades and safety pings.

  • Theft does not neccesarily require that the victim be deprived of a physical object.

    One definition [dictionary.com] of theft is 'the act of stealing'. If you then look up stealing [dictionary.com], you find

    To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

    Seems like the owner of the intellectual property is being stolen from, if you ask me.

    The creator or owner of the media should be compensated for the effort, time and money that went into creating it. To just ignore that is selfish in the extreme.

    Oh, and I find your insinuation that those who consider copyright infringement theft are somehow Nazis utterly pathetic. People always seem to try and make a link to the Nazis whenever their argument is failing... ("Oh, Hitler was a vegetarian, you know..." etc.)

  • Propaganda is in the eye of the beholder. Simply because someone disagrees with you does not mean that:

    a) They are stupid

    or

    b) Actually they do see things the same way as you, it's just that they pretend they don't for their own nefarious purposes.

    P.S. If you really just wanted to pick someone who was well known for their use of propaganda, I hardly think Himmler was a good choice. I mean, if you asked people what Himmler was, are they going to say:

    "A Nazi"

    or

    "A propagandist" .... ;)

  • The fact that this is in Canada makes it very interesting, IMHO. I remember that there was some guy who used to rebroadcast NFL games on the Internet. He was allowed to do this in Canada, but not allowed to do it in the US. If I remember correctly, he was successfully shut down. But then he convinced the courts that if he put in protections for the streams so that they wouldn't reach US customers, he could continue to operate, because the NFL rules applied only in the US, not in Canada.
    That's just because the dude in question was stupid enough to have incorporated his company in Pennsylvania.

    I mean, if you wanna break US law but are an American with a foothold in the state, don't whine when the feds go knocking at your door...

    --
    Knowledge is, in every country, the surest basis of public happiness.

  • by Keith McClary ( 14340 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @08:26PM (#126195)
    I don't care if it's legal in Canada or not, it's still stealing! This is just one more example of something the media will 'attribute' to OSS and Linux.

    Suppose you lived in an apartment overlooking a baseball park and you could watch the games for free out your window while most people had to pay-per-view. Are you stealing? "The media" would say so since they have a vested interest in pay-per-view.

    How about if you took videos of the game from your window and put them on your website. I'll bet "the media" have already bought laws making that illegal.

    Are you old enough to remember when people would say "It's a free country" and they weren't being sarcastic?
  • Of course, the next round will be DirectTV's response, which if history [slashdot.org] is of any indicator, we'll have a lot of smolten Linux boxen (maybe this will help RedHat's bottom line even more?)

    No one EVER learns, do they? Or maybe it's just all in fun. More power to both sides, it's been interesting from the sidelines from the get-go.
  • by jmcc ( 15894 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2001 @02:40AM (#126198) Homepage
    This hack was always going to happen. In fact almost any system that uses a conditional access system where the data stream can be accessed and rebroadcast is vulnerable. News Datacom, the company that created the crypto architecture for DSS/DirecTV knew about this vulnerability and it patented what they considered a solution to it. (US Patent:5,590,200 if you want to check it on www.uspto.gov). It is not due to the crypto system being compromised. It is basically a failure in the model. I formulated the original hack for this over ten years ago so it is not as if the designers of the TV encryption systems did not know about it. Regards...jmcc (John McCormac)
  • by cygnus ( 17101 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @08:02PM (#126199) Homepage
    how's this for the ultimate catch-22?

    there's semi-draconian media laws in Canada set up to prevent Canadian media from being overrun by the U.S media conglomerates. problematic implimentation in places, but i certainly understand the sentiment.

    one of the laws is that foreign sattelite broadcasters cannot sell their services in Canada. a judge ruled that since DirecTV's service was unable to be sold in Canada, it therefore had no fair market value. and since something that is valueless cannot be stolen, it's OK to watch DirecTV in Canada for free.

    DirecTV can bring up charges against Canadian individuals for violating laws in the United States, but they're not likely to prosecute them unless they come over the border.

    This information I learned from speaking to one of the techie higherups at DirecTV.
  • If DIRECTV were smart they would take advantage of this. They too could set up servers, but instead with encrypted connects. All you would need is a phone line and they could have rotating access codes.

    Maybe even have a solution where you get the key on the satillite signal, which gets combined with the unit's serial number and then checked at the central - okay this probably wouldn't work but there is an idea trying to break out, it just a little late to be thinking straight.
  • The services they provide are beamed to you whether you want them or not, they're on your property, so it should not be legal to make viewing the signals, no matter how, illegal.

    Old argument, new context. There is legal precident against what you just said. For years people have tried to use the, "The signals are being beamed at me, I have a right to know what is passing through my body." defense when they get busted for using a radar detector in a state (VA, CN, etc...) where they are illegal. The defense doesn't work.




  • How are Canadians getting DTV receivers and dishes, then? I understand the Canadian law, but it could very well bite them in the tuckas if they don't do more to protect against it. By legally allowing Canadians to watch DTV for free, and not prohibiting the import and sale of receivers into the country, the Canadian government has gone exactly against the law they are trying to uphold. If I'm Canadian, am I going to pay a Canadian cable company (MuchMusic...no thank you) or am I going to watch DTV for free? So, now a major US media congolomorate (well, maybe a mid level one) is stealing customers from a Canadian provider.




  • You keep using the word "stealing".

    Don't you think that is a tad perjorative?

    Why not say "piracy"?

    Why not say "pillage, rape, and plunder"?

    Have you not been keeping up with the debate over property ownership vs. information ownership?

    Been living in a cave for the past 20 years?

    Or maybe you are just another troll ;)
  • In the US anyway, totally illegal, and you could tentatively get in DEEP shit for running a server like this.

    Yes, people have always done this.. with old dishes it was with modems, before that, just codes faxed over.

    I fully support doing cool hacks.. BUT...

    This is blatantly 'how to steal DirecTV'. Silly.
  • Actually, to us Canucks, it's NOT stealing, and here's why.

    We are *NOT* allowed to pay for it, and they are NOT allowed to sell it to us, in Canada, therefore, we aren't taking away from anyone's market share.

    We are not allowed to buy it IF WE WANT TO. This has been the case with many satellite things in the past; it's not legal for those companies to market or sell their 'product' in canada; this is what makes satellite descrambling of American broadcasts a grey-market business. It's kind of illegal, in that there are laws about descrambling television broadcasts, but on the flip side, those companies cannot claim lost revenue or anything, as tehy are forbidden from selling here.

  • Scanners with cellular frequencies are illegal *in the united states only*. The only reason many Canadian stores carry scanners that don't have these frequencies as well is because they are manufactured in the states.
    It is perfectly legal for us to have unblocked scanners that cover *any* frequencies. The same goes for most of the rest of the free world anyway.
    When the cellular companies lobbied to have this chagned here, the CRTC and others said simply (and rightly so) 'the radio spectrum is a public resource, it belongs to the people. We only regulate who can transmit, that's it'

    Go check out winradio.com, and look at their models. It's only the US that has to have certain frequencies 'blocked'.

    Also, as Canadians, we are *not allowed* to buy direcTV. DirecTV is NOT ALLOWED to sell television to us, they have no license to broadcast in Canada. You are NOT subsidizing anything as a paying customer; we are not part of their marketshare, and not part of their business plan. There is no 'lost revenue', they don't even try to say there is any. They DO NOT CARE. We just happen to be able to pick up their programming.
  • In order to show theft, you have to show a loss. If someone stole the picture of your aunt martha, even though it has no market value, it has a demonstratable value to you.

    In the case of TV signal though, nothing has been 'taken away', and the only way, I believe, the company in question could show 'theft' is by showing lost profits. In this case, they have no license to sell or broadcast in Canada, therefore, there are no lost profits.

    If you don't want us to receive your signals, don't send them into our country.
  • Yes. You are right. Two points to consider.

    1) ucsimm does not make it that obvious what license it is under. I had to hunt a bit. That's not an excuse, just a point.
    2) It doesn't mean he now HAS to relase his code; it means he has to release it if he distributes this. He can always decide, upon reflection, that he does not like the terms of the GPL and stop distributing it.
    3) What he is enabling people to do is legal where he is. It's hardly pircay when you can't buy it in the first place.
    4) Exactly what does 'based on' mean? How much of it is based on? Are portions of the code GPL? Does he have permission from Daniel Drotos to do this? If so, the GPL is moot.

    Also.. and you know, I know I'm asking for it here.

    Regardless of how much we want it to, the GPL is still just a contract. Some people will ignore it. If they are a company, maybe we can do something. IF its' one rogue hacker, what are you gonna do? Sue him? Gimme a break.
  • The problem with your argument is that people who've actually looked up the meaning of Theft and Stealing know that the words do not mean what you think they do...

    Theft is when you unlawfully deprive the owner of property.

    In both of your cases, the company involved wasn't deprived of any property.

    So it's not theft.

    Now, hear me out. I'm not going to make a moral statement here (You can read my other posts if you wish to know my stance.) I'm merely correcting your use of the word.

    These things may (or may not be, to you) morally wrong. That would make them ... morally wrong. They may be unauthorized copying of a copyrighted work, that'd make them ... unauthorized copies.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
  • Theft of Service requires reducing the capacity of the service provider to provide that service.

    Psychologists can say what they will, but it's obvious to anyone with a clue than only an idiot would take their morality from law. It's supposed to go the other way, public morality defines law.

    Enjoy your stilted little life. I'm sure you'll follow all the UCITA rules... Make sure to never sell a copy of Windows, MS says you don't really own it. And never fast-forward through commercials on a DVD, even if you have one of the players which doesn't enforce that. After all, having that player is almost as good as stealing from the MPAA...

    I've never understood how people like you could reconcile something being legal, and thus moral, for a period of time. Then, as soon as a law is passed against it, it suddenly becomes immoral. How exactly does that work? When the MPAA buys a few legislators, does that define universal morality?
  • And how exactly is this not describing the situation *today*?

    I only get about 500 channels of nothing.

  • Never before on Slashdot, when read under the rules of the Slashdot Drinking Game, has there ever been a single story that could get someone as staggerring drunk as this story can.

    DRINKING WORDS: Hacking, DirecTV, TCP/IP, Linux, emulate, Internet, open source, digital convergence, access card, and if you count compound words, Siliconshock, the submitter.

    Gives "buzzwords" a whole new meaning.
  • Problem is:

    (c) decode an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed otherwise than under and in accordance with an authorization from the lawful distributor of the signal or feed;

    DirecTV (US) has no authority to allow, or disallow their signal from being decodedin Canada. They are not authorized to operate here. The current interpretation is based on the potential to authorize the signal. As long as there is NO potential authorization (noone to seek it from) it is not illegal to decode it. The laws intent was to protect broadcasters in Canada. And yes, Canadain courts do look at the intent of the law when necessary.

  • Yes, actually it is so, since the entire law hinges on the "lawful distributor", which DirecTV isn't. It is not lawful for them to distribute the signal in Canada, therefore no law is broken, period.

    -- iCEBaLM
  • by iCEBaLM ( 34905 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @10:18PM (#126226)
    Umm, what makes you think that someone making illegal software for stealing is going to obey the GPL?

    1. It's not stealing in Canada as DirecTV cannot be sold in Canada by law, and therefore has no "Fair Market Value". Something which has no value cannot be stolen and is therefore legal to circumvent.

    2. The author is Canadian.

    -- iCEBaLM
  • by mpe ( 36238 )
    Broadcasting something over DirecTV doesn't make it public domain, the hacking is just considered a "fair use" of the copyrighted material.

    It is considered "fair use" because Canadian courts have taken the very sensible position that if you cannot buy the service in Canada then calling in "piracy" is meaningless.

    Individuals could not record something and create a derivative work based on it. They can only *watch* the channels.

    Depends if Canadian copyright law more closely follows that of the US or that of the UK...
  • by mpe ( 36238 )
    Does this mean Microsoft Canada can violate the GPL because it is "valueless"? Honest question.

    Only if the Canadian courts agree. The issue with DirectTv isn't someone thinking it's possible it's an application of applicable case law.
  • Why should service providers have to pay to protect their data from stealing? It's like saying that I'm responsible for not using a more solid door lock if someone is breaking into my house.

    The analogy falls down. In that what broadcast companies are doing would be akin to pulling your property into the hands of very burglar.
    It comes down to an issue of what is being sold, if they were to be seen as selling a service for decrypting their signal then another receiver is not "stealing". Looking at things this way the provider always have a commercial advantage, since they control the encryption. A bit like other applications trying to read MSOffice files.
  • Recent court rulings have supported pirating DirecTV signals in Canada. However, the Crown is appealing the decisions.

    The link points not to a judgement so much as the judge saying "you are wasting my time". Also the "appeal" sounds more like an attempt at "judge shopping">
  • In any case, the main issue is whether it is ethical to pirate DirecTV even if there is a loophole in Canada's perverse telecommunications laws.

    The Canadian judiciary do not appear to find the laws perverse. Since the purpose of the laws appears to be to protect the interests of Canadians they can't be called "perverse" either.
  • The other guy's right, the DMCA doesn't mean shit in Canada as long as we're not serving US customers.

    So long also as you don't employ US citizens or open an office in the US. (Quite likely even if these are for a different area of your business.)

    As a bonus (if I remember correctly), anything broadcast through the air (DirecTV for example) is pretty much open for exploitation here so it's perfectly legal to pirate satellite up her so far as I know.

    So long as you cannot legally purchase the service in Canada. In which case the Canadian courts will prosecute. Also that you are not a citizen of anywhere which applies laws to its citizens extrateritorially (and cannot claim political asylum in Canada.)
  • Finally, I'm beginning to see the fruits of all that "trying to make bits not copyable is like trying to make water not wet" talk.

    But we also have the "pass laws so people arn't allowed to use water to make things wet, unless we want them to" :)

    People are finding ways around the arcane protection that these companies think will protect them.

    The problem in quite a few cases is that the organisations concerned do not understand the basics of crypography.
    Something like CSS is utterly unviable. The encryption is static (including keys) and the decryption mechanisms are freely available.
    Encrypting a broadcast signal is more likely to work, since you can at least change the keys, possibly the algorithm. Sending them over the air isn't much good though. You really need a completly separate channel for updating keys, e.g. telephone, post, etc.
    Even then the only real use of encryption is to make things so that it is cheaper for someone to buy a decryption service from the provider than employ cryptoanalysis
  • This thing is probably illegal because it lets N receivers use one card. If it was 1:1, though, one could argue that you're just loaning out your license when you're not using it.

    Except that a licence is an abstract entity, a card is a physical entity. There's no reason for there to have to be a 1:1 mapping of licences to cards.
    Several licences can apply to one card.
  • How is it a "right" to use a service that is far from cheap to provide?

    So what consumers have no obligation (at least in a capitalist) society to ensure that a supplier's business model actually works.

    If every country felt you could just steal it, then it wouldn't exist.

    If you send send your signals to some country then they can do what they like with them. Anyway it would be considerably more enpensive to broadcast only to the USA. Tricky to avoid Canada (especially in you want to get Alaska as well) even though most of the border is a line of latitude. Even harder to miss Mexico where a good chunk of the border is a river.
  • I am more and more amazed at the number of people who apparently believe that the mere act of spending money entitles you to a return on your investment.

    Maybe there needs to be a forced reading of "Capitalism for Dummies" :)

    Let's get this straight: No one "deserves" money just because they put their money, time, or effort into a project.

    Also if your entire business is based around one "project" then it more vulnerable to fail. Especially with such things as making "loss leaders" a critical part of the exercise. (e.g. the iopener and cuecat).
    But also changes in technology can rapidly render something obsolete. So yesterday's "good idea" may be todays "utter waste of time".
    This is what we are seeing, IMHO, in the media distribution and publishing industry. The cost of duplication and distribution is rapidly falling. Which also means the cost of entry is becoming low.
  • DirecTV DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY SERVICES in Canada, and is polluting the airwaves with rogue signals which are not authorized.

    If you want to take it further you could say that DirectTV is preventing Canadians from making use of a set of frequences.
  • How long before the lawyers have their say?

    In quite a few cases it appears that prosecution lawyers have had their say. Possibly not defence lawyers, for the simple reason of judges ruling "no case".
  • That's the problem: they're *not* smart. They thought they had a bulletproof encryption system and as it turns out, they don't. Actually, that's not entirely true, they use some sort of encryption that has *not* been hacked. It's their overall *system* that is currently insecure.

    It is very hard to design a system which is secure for the application in question. Once you provide equiptment to the public you have no control of it at all.
    If it is workwhile the entire thing can be subjected to any analysis known to man.
  • A more accurate statement might be "It's Unauthorized Decryption".

    Again there is the issue of jurisdiction. Since DirectTV has no authority over a Canadian citizen (in Canada) in the first place. So the unauthorised bit is utterly irelevent.
  • The guy is intentionally bypassing a valid content access mechanism

    No the "content access mechanism" wasn't valid in Canada.

    and sharing the tools (although it's perhaps telling that the code is in binary form only - no source) so that any script-kiddie-wannabe can plug a few cables together and get 'free' TV.

    Canadians do have general freedom of "speach", so there is no problem here.

    The Canadian nature of his citizenship will not shield him from the corporate entertainment empires. Just ask Jon Johansen - and he was on the other side of the pond.

    It's a double edged sword, if US corporate entertainment can "have a go" at Canadians and Norwegians then they can also counter sue. You also might like to consider how much "American Television" is actually made in Canada.
  • If I copy something from you which you value at $0.00 and the judge convicts me of stealing $0.00 and tells me to repay you 10,000x the cost and pay a fine of 1,000,000x the price and go to jail for 300x the price it still adds up to zero.

    Maybe a US judge would do this. The Canadian judges appear to be a whole lot more sensible here and dismiss the case. Maybe if it happens often enough they'll start considering the prosecution in "contempt of court".

    I've heard Canadian judges tell the RCMP off for wasting our money by attempting to prosecute people for crimes that don't exist on our lawbooks. I believe a Quebec judge said that all American DSS in Quebec is Public Domain.

    Note that this is judges not simply a single judge. The entire Canadian judiciary appears to agree. Thus even appealing dosn't seem very likely to change anything.
  • He is IN Canada. Just because its illegal to decrypt the signal in the US does not mean its illegal to do it in Canada, or anywhere else.

    In most situations people are subject to the laws of wherever they happen to be at the time. The unusual exception is where they are also subject to the laws of whereever they are a citizen of. So if he were a US citizen then he might be doing something wrong, as he's a Canadian citizen there is no issue.

    The fact that he wants the service but BY LAW CANNOT purchase said service they have to do what they have to do.

    Also the fact that there is a law which prevents the service being legaly sold in Canada means that it is easy for Canadian judges to dismis thes kind of cases.
  • How is that "sensible?" It's not as though DirecTV doesn't want to sell it. The Canadian government prohibits them from selling it

    That is the Canadian government's perogative. It's not as if the US dosn't prevent other American countries selling stuff to the US.
    It's sensible since it protects the interests of Canadians. Which is after all the job of a government.
  • How are Canadians getting DTV receivers and dishes, then?

    It is not illegal to import them into Canada. Anyway you don't think this hardware is actually manufactured in the US, do you...
  • And stealing American satellite TV is perfectly legal in Canada.

    Except that it isn't "stealing". A better analogy would be someone making use of unsolicited goods.
  • The supreme court recently ruled that it is illegal for the police to drive down the streets with infra-red scanners looking for drug houses. This does not mean that infra-red scanners are illegal in general - only that use of them by police would be inadmissible as evidence.

    Or possibly even they can only actually use them for evidence when they actually have some kind of warrent. Rather than for "trawling".
  • Theft requires that the victim be deprived of an item. When something is replicated, this clearly does not happen.

    Thus the definition gets expanded to include potential revenue.
    But in this case the potential revenue is zero anyway....
  • by mpe ( 36238 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2001 @02:24AM (#126250)
    Information, especially in digital form, has a zero cost to copy, and does not deprive the "owner" of their copy. Companies decide to spend alot of money setting up systems to throw these bits at us. No one forces them to go into the business of copy bits around, they do it of their own volition. This is like selling salt water by the ocean. Except that it's stupider.

    The problem here is that publishers (far more than people who actually generate the information in the first place.) Are trying hard to prop business models which rely on copying being difficult and expensive.
    Having has some sucess in lobbying for laws which artificially treat trivial to copy data as identical to a physical object which is hard to duplicate.
    Even where a physical media is involved the cost is small. e.g. photocopying a book generally costs more than buying a copy, but copying a CD is a lot less than the retail price.
    There are two ways things could go. Either we get more and more draconian legislation passed. Though at some point lobbying needs to be extended to police and courts or the result is laws which just won't be enforced. Or different business models need to be found. This is frightening for the current megacorps and some of them might not survive any change. Especially since both the producers and consumers don't much care about the publishers/middlemen.
  • Wrong. It is GPL because it is based on the GPL software ucsim.
  • Hm, OK, there's no civil liabiilty, because there's no damages.

    There also may be no criminal liabiilty if the US DSS companies are permitted to distribute DSS signals in Canada (maybe by means other than DSS - the law isn't clear :) and chose not to.
  • > Remember, law is not a formal system that you are supposed to find holes in. Law is ment to help the people see the right from wrong. There is need for human common-sense at some point.

    If law isn't a formal system where you find holes, then what the fuck are lawyers for?

  • > Using a step-by-step by-the-numbers guide published by someone on the Internet to connect two bits of hardware together just so that you can get something that you would otherwise have to pay for isn't hacking. It isn't even remotely close to hacking.

    It would, however, cut down on the for-profit illegal activity.

    I remember a similar controversy over mod chips for the Playstation. 99% of the sites were "selling" mod chips. 0.9% of the sites were selling "kits" with pre-programmed (and read-protected) PICs. Only 0.1% of the sites actually contained some PIC code and told you what was really going on.

    I wouldn't call the mod chip I installed in my PS1 "hacking" (I didn't do any of the research), but I had to (a) build my own PIC-burner, (b) burn my own PIC, which was both fun and educational.

    Basically, if I couldn't do the engineering, at least I wanted to do the legwork myself.

    Pond scum: Guy who sells pre-packaged gadget on which he did no research whatsoever, to Average Joes who just wanna watch "free" TV, for $500. Then charges 'em another $100 for every ECM.

    'L33t d00d: Makes all code and design info freely available for anyone who wants to build one from scratch. May sell prebuild gadgets/software at slight premium to finance ongoing research efforts and/or web hosting costs.

    Geek: Downloads aforementioned design info and software, sources parts independently, and sees if it works. Plays with it from time to time as the ECMs come out, to see if it still works. In time, may eventually morph into 'l33t d00d or pond scum, depending on ethical proclivities.

    (I don't pretend that any of the people in the three categories I've invented are legal... I'm just throwing it out for discussion... IMNSHO, if there were more l33t d00dz, there'd be less pond scum, because the increased availability of the knowledge would increase the number of pond scum to the point that pond-scumming margins would drop.)

    In the case of the Playstation, it wasn't that much of a problem. In the case of DirecTV, I admit, building one's own satellite dish from scratch, would be an impressive feat. :)

  • by mjh ( 57755 ) <markNO@SPAMhornclan.com> on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:52PM (#126263) Homepage Journal
    How long before they get sued for violation of DMCA.

    Uhhmmm... the guy who wrote this lives in Montreal, as in Canada. The DMCA is a US law. I'm sure that the guy will get sued for something, but I doubt it will be using the provisions of the DMCA.

    The fact that this is in Canada makes it very interesting, IMHO. I remember that there was some guy who used to rebroadcast NFL games on the Internet. He was allowed to do this in Canada, but not allowed to do it in the US. If I remember correctly, he was successfully shut down. But then he convinced the courts that if he put in protections for the streams so that they wouldn't reach US customers, he could continue to operate, because the NFL rules applied only in the US, not in Canada.

    The NFL, of course objected saying that the protections wouldn't work (they were right). But I remember thinking that he was allowed to turn his stuff back on.

    I wish I could remember the name of the service, then I could get the details a little bit more accurate. But I wonder how that case as a precedent is going to effect the current situation.
    --

  • by Velox_SwiftFox ( 57902 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:09PM (#126264)
    This is, like unlawful isn't it?

    Does Open Source need this kind of promotion?
  • by pnatural ( 59329 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:05PM (#126265)
    10,000,000 channels, and nothing is on.
  • by clump ( 60191 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:21PM (#126266)
    I believe that eventually companies will resort to calling Free/Open software a serious threat, as opposed to making or adopting better technology. Most likely the attorneys in the likely-to-follow lawsuits will argue that Linux and code sharing are the causes of events like this.

    I believe the entertainment industry has already recognized that it cannot trust users of "their" content. Anything that we hold cannot be restricted from us. The natural progression will be to adopt subscription-based models. Why the lawsuits now? I will bet it is more profitable to preserve the current distribution model for as long as possible before switching over.

    Imagine paying $30 a month to listen to any song or watch any movie you wanted...
  • -- a billion channels and nothing worth looking at

    And how exactly is this not describing the situation *today*?
  • Dude. This is Canada. "We don't need no steenkin' DMCA."
  • i haven't been able to find any projects for dishnetwork ,but they've got to be out there somewhere...
  • by Jah-Wren Ryel ( 80510 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:18PM (#126271)
    Not in Canada it isn't. It is illegal to sell DirecTV subscriptions in Canada, consequently (and the Canadian courts have already ruled on this) hacking DirecTV is legal - it isn't quite so cut and dried but close enough. The guys doing the development on this project are Canadian.

  • but IMHO, hacking is really using technology in a way it wasn't intended to be used, using skills that most people don't have.

    This is the precise and exact definition of a hacker, be it a highly skilled programmer or an entrant of restricted systems and everyone that falls in between.

    Funny how people forget that when they shout, "NUH UH, IT'S *CRACKER*!"
  • I had a stove in the house I used to live in in Idaho when I was a kid that would pick up some AM station.

    And later I lived a few houses down from someone with a whopping big ass (and illegal) CB antenna. I could pick him up clearly with a 2-inch audio speaker with a foot of copper wire hanging off of each of the terminals.

    What was really a drag was when I'd try to tape a record album on my stereo, and the dickhead would decide it was time to chat with his buddies. My tape would record his transmissions.

    The neighborhood got up a petition to the FCC to disclipline him, but nothing ever happened.

    Someone told me that the stove couldn't possibly have worked because there was nothing to rectify the signal, but there it was doing it. Creepy too. It wasn't very loud but you could make out words in the broadcasts.


    Mike [goingware.com]

  • If you live in USA, then sure. If not, you simply can't subscribe the service. All the big DSS hacking started the same day DirectTV went on line, for USA only, leaving out the nearby countries. People living in Canada or Caribbean countries, do receive the signal; but they cant subscribe it, legally at least. Some use fake USA addresses, some buy "test" cards; but the ultimate goal is to have a 100% software based emulator. Unlike cards or hardware devices, which can be burned/damaged, emulators are simply reset/updated and they are working back again.

    This is not new (or news for that matter). There is a really strong community behind this, reverse engineering all the "News Datacom" tricks, who, themselves counterattack by fixing the bugs found by this "community" and disabling the new attempts.

    Its is not a cheap hobby either. Not only you have to upgrade constantly to follow the war, but in equipment it usually means easily a first 2000 US$ investment. If the card gets upgraded, then all your tools/devices must upgrade too (and there are many lost hours of downtime, due to ECMs, new tricks, whatever).

    There is no real loss, or stealing for that matter, if you can't legally pay for the service in the first place. Remember the US crypto law? this law prohibits equipment like this to be exported outside USA, so DTV must obey and deny any outsider attempt to subscribe (since they are not supposed to have this crypto equipment on their hands).

    Also this is not like breaking into phone communications, you are simply putting use of a publicy broadcast signal (TV! not private talks) falling in your head, outside of USA soil where you would otherwise do absolutely nothing with it.

    At least the free available emulators kill the smugler "test" card resell business :) But the next News Datacom move will probably put them back on business (with the next gen cards that will make the current emu obsolete). Its been the same since DTV day 0, again, nothing new here.

    Well, maybe the distributed server with the emu software, which is an interesting thing *if* you are into the scene.

    --

  • by randombit ( 87792 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2001 @04:27AM (#126278) Homepage
    morally wrong act

    And what act is that? Are these guys killing people or sodomizing small children? No. They're getting access to a cable channel which you cannot pay for even if you want to in the country that they are from. Maybe in your mind this is a morally wrong act but I hardly see it as such. If it were possible to buy DirecTV in Canada, then I would call it a not-very-nice thing (though, again, hardly 'morally wrong' - I reserve that for a crime that actually hurts someone in a non-negligeble way).

    "Well, it's not illegal so it must be ok!"

    It's not only 'not illegal', it seems that Canadian courts have examined this issue and said that it is OK.

    If someone tapped in to your cordless or cell phone's signal and replayed embarrasing conversations to your family, boss and friends would you be as forgiving?

    What?!?!?! TV channels and private conversations are hardly the same thing. TV is meant to be seen/heard by as many people as possible. Private conversations are not. You are confusing copyright law with something else entirely (well, at least in my case - I hardly ever copyright my phone conversations).
  • I agree. To put it in another context, if you shoot me with your gun, and the bullet is lodged in my body, can you then sue me for stealing your bullet (or plead innocense by saying you were "not using it in a way intended by the shooter")?

    Some things flying through the air can kill a bit more quickly than others...
  • Getting caught with one isn't the end of the world, anyway. No points, and they can't even confiscate it.

    Unless, of course, you are in Canada, in which case they confiscate it, destroy it, and give your insurance company a call. The insurance company then decides that you must be a chronic speeder and raises your rates.

    ---

  • Kind of like the fabled dodo.

    ____________________
  • "First, anyone who thinks any signal that they can reach is free for them to use should go to radio shack and try to buy a scanner with cellular frequencies. They're illegal -- and it's illegal to build something to listen to them. It's been a long, long time since frequencies were free."

    It's also "illegal" to listen to cordless phones, but you can buy scanners just about anywhere that pick that up. Also, I have a nice Yeasu FT-530 that I legally modified (having a ham radio license) that now gets in the 900Mhz range (where there is a ham band). The side effect being that I can now pick up cell phones.

    As many people pointed out, this is kinda legal in Canada.. I really think it's more about getting the signal rather then descrambling it, but that's me.. Because sure, you can't get DirectTV, but buy descrambling it from them means you're not getting it from the local cable company, or some other provider in Canada.

    Also, you've been able to do this for quite a while now, a friend of mine does it. I think it's a dos program and not a linux program.. but that doesn't really matter.


    --

  • by Troed ( 102527 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @11:34PM (#126291) Homepage Journal
    I guess John McCormack (author of the ill-famous The Black Book - the bible on hacking cable/satellite etc) is feeling happy now. This is in reality an implementation of a hack he "invented" many many years ago, where a single access module (smart card here) would server many different decoders. This could be done via any media, and with broadband appearing in all households that's is the perfect way to do it.

    Congratz.

  • hehe or the time I got banned from the library for "hacking" when all I was doing was using one of the "Lite Search Station" kiosks that were set up to only view library databases to log onto a MUD. All I did was put telnet://mud.url.net:PORT# in the Location bar on IE and it executed telnet... I laughed for weeks at them, hell I still get a chuckle... "hacking" being defined as running telnet... *snickers*
  • Looked more like "free beer" than "free speech." They said something about a binary, but I didn't see any source.

    If /. can't even tell the difference, we're screwed.

  • I am stunned by the sheer volume of people here who are simply willing to overlook a morally wrong act by hiding behind laws and saying, "Well, it's not illegal so it must be ok!" Come on people! Before there was legislation against data theft, cracking, phone phreaking etc. did that mean it was morally ok until someone decided to pass a law? Of course not!
    Then you'll *really* hate this [cellphonescanner.com].
    --
  • I don't see you making as much of an effort to tap into your neighbour's cellular phone conversations though.

    And a damn good thing you don't see me doing it, too. Otherwise you'd jump our fence and smack the shit out of me.

    By the way, dude... cut the calls to 'Mistress Cleo'. She's a fake. :P
    ---------------------------------------------- ----
  • This thing is probably illegal because it lets N receivers use one card. If it was 1:1, though, one could argue that you're just loaning out your license when you're not using it.

    Interestingly, the FLEXLM [globetrotter.com] license manager, used for expensive software packages, allows this. The license server is designed to work over the Internet, busily checking licenses in and out. Normally, this is within an organization (you can run N copies of ANSYS), but that's not required. Someone could create an open market where you can rent out your licenses when you're not using them, or rent ones as needed.

  • Why is this on slashdot? I don't care if it's legal in Canada or not, it's still stealing! This is just one more example of something the media will 'attribute' to OSS and Linux.

    Just because Linux is free, doesn't mean everything else has to be.

  • I remember doing a bit of research back when DirectTV sent their "card killer" download back in January. All I can say is that this is likely to be the end of the H card. Not that Hughes really wants to eat the cost of replacing millions of active non-hacked H cards, but they may have to now. Unless this trick also works with HU cards, that is. :-)
  • by aozilla ( 133143 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @07:06PM (#126314) Homepage

    This is, like unlawful isn't it?

    Well, I am not a lawyer, and this is certainly not legal advice, but I thought the supreme court of the US ruled that any satellite transmission beamed onto your property was yours to do with as you please. Now this was before DMCA, so maybe things have changed, or maybe I'm just misinformed, but in any case it's not like you're going to get caught, anyway.

  • If you'd like a copy of the source, I suggest you simply email the author and demand it. They have no right to withhold the source since they've used GPL'd code.

    Umm, what makes you think that someone making illegal software for stealing is going to obey the GPL? I mean, if they don't respect the copyright of DirectTV, why would they respect the copyright of the maker of ucsim?

  • Please don't give me that "it's my airwaves crap". You're going out of your way here to tap into someone else's legitimate broadcasts just so that you can get free TV. I don't see you making as much of an effort to tap into your neighbour's cellular phone conversations though.

    Okay, first of all, if my body picks up the signals, and all radio signals pass through flesh at some point, why don't I have the right to do what the hell I want with them? I'm not condemning nor praising the hackers. All I will say is if you want to, go right ahead.

    As for the cell phone myth, it's a radio, nothing more. Despite the FCC outlawing scanners that can pick up cellphones, you can still hear them via images, ie radio anomalies in the scanner. I can routinely listen to cell phone calls on my cell blocked scanner.

    It's all the same damn thing. As far as I'm concerned, I have a right to do what I want with anything that invades my body, whether that be radio signals, beef burgers or anything else.

    Fuck DirecTV, fuck Microsoft, fuck the FCC, fuck them all.

    ---

  • Imagine paying $30 a month to listen to any song or watch any movie you wanted...

    I can watch any movie or TV program I want to right now, on demand, for $30 a month. It's called DirecTV + TiVo. Oh wait, even though TiVo uses Linux, they want to charge for their service too, so they must be bad as well. :)

  • by Faux_Pseudo ( 141152 ) <Faux.PseudoNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:28PM (#126319)
    How long before they get sued for violation of DMCA. Isn't emulating a valid DirecTV account reverse engineering and/or fraud? I don't side with the dtv people at all and like the idea but what is the fallout going to be?

    Everyone is out there buying Tivo and other set top boxes only to wait for HDTV to come in with its protection schemes that will remove time-shifting and render their hardware useless. So now we use other hardware to make a workaround. This cycle of events ensures that only the wealthy can compete for control over how/when they view media. As history has shown it's the little guys who are the majority. Unless we start challenging the laws, more accurately the abuse of vague laws, that make it possible to make the hardware/software that create the "need" for these circumventing devices we will all end up getting shafted in the end. Corporations will always be one step ahead in the coming years.

    I don't want to have to worry about updating my foo-emulater every time a new device comes out that threatens part of what is supposed to be a free media. I want to know that I, and the rest of the little people, will have the same unencumbered access to media that we have always had.

  • It's not generally a good idea. It's neat to see that it can be done, but it pretty clearly shouldnt be. The guy is obviouly pretty sharp, but all this doesn is give M$ just a little more ammo in their FUD campaign against Linux and Open Source. "See! They use their OS to do ILLEGAL things, which we are striving to prevent with our new version of Windows XP!"
  • "
    I disagree. Why should service providers have to pay to protect their data from stealing? It's like saying that I'm responsible for not using a more solid door lock if someone is breaking into my house.
    "

    If you don't want me to view it, don't beam it into my house.

  • by clare-ents ( 153285 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @11:53PM (#126329) Homepage
    I think it's a difference between active and inactive piracy.

    I modify a box to not pay -> I've circumvented their system for gain -> bad

    They are giving me stuff I didn't pay for -> That's their own bloody fault -> ok

  • (a) It's a cool hack.

    (b) It's news.

    (c) It's about a somewhat-offbeat use of technology.

    I think it pretty clearly falls under "News for Nerds". It sounds to me like you wouldn't want the NY Times reporting on, say, a drug problem in Central Park because that facilitates people finding places to buy drugs.

  • Blockquoth the poster:
    However, I -do- think that the majority of society are idiots and would see this and think that all hackers are out to steal cable or whatever.
    Hmmm. This raises an interesting point. Many people seem to feel that "stealing" cable is OK if you get away with it. I have at least three friends who found their cable accidentally on before they ordered it, and who merrily watched for months without paying. These people feel themselves to be upright, law-abiding citizens, too.

    I wonder if this is the sort of hack that makes hacking more respectable, because people can understand and identify with it?

  • Blockquoth the poster:
    but DirecTV does deserve compensation for their service.
    I am more and more amazed at the number of people who apparently believe that the mere act of spending money entitles you to a return on your investment. Let's get this straight: No one "deserves" money just because they put their money, time, or effort into a project. They should have made an intelligent forecast of their likely return. If they guessed wrong, it really isn't the government's problem, or mine.
  • by IronChef ( 164482 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @08:37PM (#126347)
    I have never actually heard about a SC ruling like that, but that's how it SHOULD be. If someone is generating an EM field, and it passes through my property or person, I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it. If the signal provider doesn't like it, they are free to add more and more complex protection to the data in the signal. Or, they can pay for a bigass Faraday cage that I can put around my place.

    It's already illegal to monitor certain radio frequencies... cell phones and cordless phones for example. Building a receiver from a handful of basic components can make you a felon. It's crazy. Crazy. Service providers should protect their data with technology, not new laws.

    Side note: even though I am a ham and I am fairly clued in on electronics, I find it AMAZING on some level that crystal radios [midnightscience.com] work. There is enough juice flowing through you RIGHT NOW to DRIVE AN EARPHONE with NO POWER SUPPLY in the circuit. Doing the math is one thing... building a passive circuit that produces sound is something else. Wacky.
  • by Preposterous Coward ( 211739 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @08:48PM (#126384)
    ...radar detectors. I always thought it was stupid that states could outlaw using what is basically a special-purpose radio receiver to pick up signals the police are beaming at you.

    I was also thinking about those stories that used to circulate about how, under the right circumstances, people could pick up radio signals with the fillings in their teeth. What if the radio signal you happened to pick up was somebody's cordless-phone conversation? Are you breaking the law? Is your dentist part of the conspiracy for building the "receiver" that you used?

  • by kstumpf ( 218897 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:19PM (#126390)
    It would seem to me that using this might make you a highly visible target for piracy investigation. If someone is patrolling for these card servers, it could lead someone to your IP, could it not? Don't get me wrong, its impressive as hell, but I would be very cautious of using this just yet.

    At any rate, it looks like satellite networks have one more thing to worry about now.

    I just got DirecTV a month or so ago, and it beats the hell out of cable. It would be nice to unlock all those titles with big 'M's next to them, but it seems too risky.

  • by unformed ( 225214 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @07:15PM (#126393)
    I agree with you in that it can be used for good OR bad, well ANY software can.

    However, I -do- think that the majority of society are idiots and would see this and think that all hackers are out to steal cable or whatever.

    A kinda off-topic example:
    At my last job I got a reputation as a hacker when I figured out how to make a program run past its expiration date...All I did was open up its INI file and about 3 lines down it said:
    Expires=3/1/2000

    I changed that line to: Expires=12/31/9999 and wala it worked....All the employees were dumbfounded that I had actually "cracked" a program.
  • by sparcv9 ( 253182 ) on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @06:11PM (#126412)
    Fabled Digital Convergence? Nah, they bit the big one [slashdot.org] over a week ago.
  • by chuqui ( 264912 ) <slash@@@chuqui...com> on Tuesday June 26, 2001 @07:31PM (#126429) Homepage
    Just a couple of thoughts on this.

    First, anyone who thinks any signal that they can reach is free for them to use should go to radio shack and try to buy a scanner with cellular frequencies. They're illegal -- and it's illegal to build something to listen to them. It's been a long, long time since frequencies were free.

    Interesting technology, but as someone else noted, it's one I'd be very careful using; unlike older satellite hack technologies (where you'd call up a BBS for access codes), you're easily tracked here. I sure wouldn't do this.

    Arbitrary beginning of the piracy flamewars: people have to remember that there's no free lunch. If you steal content from DirectTV, those of us who DO pay for the service are subsidizing you. Someone has to pay for this stuff; if everyone tried to steal if, it'd disappear. (we now stand back to watch all of the pirates attempt to rationalize away their theft by calling it other things...)

    But most importantly, and the reason I delurked in the first place, this is yet another example of a company that uses stupid, weak, badly designed encryption techniques and tries to enforce them with obscurity and bluster. Companies like DirectTV need to learn that if they want to protect their content, they can't cheap out on the technology. DeCSS is a classic example of this -- you lock your front door with a piece of twine, and tell everyone that if they dare open the door, they'll call the police.

    Anyone with half a brain knows to get a deadbolt and keep them out in the first place. Sooner or later, enough of these cracks will occur to convince even the stupid companies to get their act together. Until then, even if the pirates are wrong -- it's hard to sympathize with companies that make it easy...

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