High Tech in Africa: Geeks Needed 183
srl writes: "The Boston Globe is running a series about high tech in Africa--- talking about how the continent needs a lot of geeks willing to work there to build Net infrastructure. (Anyone want to take on a big project?) The series as a whole is interesting and sheds light on a topic that most American geeks probably don't spend time thinking about. See also part 1, about the new high-speed fiber link to Africa and part 2, about cybercafes in Africa."
africa needs food, not networking infrastructure (Score:1)
w00t! (Score:1)
Re:Great experience... with a few drawbacks... (Score:1)
Re:africa needs food, not networking infrastructur (Score:1)
Put Your Skill Where Your Mouth is.... (Score:1)
dumb ideas never die (Score:1)
Good cause, wrong arcticle.
Several sobering comments come to mind.
Consequently, you have to sort out language, stability, security, economic and technical issues before jumping on this. Trust me on this one.
Always the first to benefit are multinational corporations exporting and controlling those projects.
Always second to benefit are local power brokers.
Almost never to benefit is the local population.
E.g. consider whether your job could be putting someone local into some money, even if she is only second best for the job. This is true even if you don't take any money - Who's paying those tickets, your health insurance etc.?
These are the worthy issues to be addressed. Once a country is stable, with a minimal economic infrastructure, food production, health care and education, without hostile neighbors, sustaining development is a piece of cake.
With these basic, but unwelcome messages in mind, what can YOU do?
Consequently, people collecting and shipping such things, as well as establishing local receiving communities and building the necessary skills are all important tasks for which nobody needs to travel.
See, without moving from your desk, there's lots of things to do.
Re:africa needs food, not networking infrastructur (Score:1)
No more "parking meters donated by SIDA", no more "condoms - donated by Japan" just some straight free trade. We need growth - not gifts. Responsible politicians - not western aid agencies continuously accepting that the african polititians lie, steal, nationalise and kill.
We need bandwitdth, goddammit!
Been There, Done That (Score:5)
OK, some of you talk about the bad things. Let's look at these:
As a former PCV (Peace Corps Volunteer) I can attest to the value of PC on your resume. Also, believe it or not, there is more to life than money. You might just learn something about yourself and/or the world if you get out of your server room.
Humans have been on this planet for an awful long time and PC, for one, has excellent healthcare. So what if you get Dengue fever (I did) or a few parasites (got them too). The benefits of your experience will far outweigh any foolish American fears of a few microbes. There are 750 million people in Africa - obviously Africa is a great place to live, else there'd be zero. Finally on this topic - most diseases/parasites are easily avoided by simple hygiene - boil your water, don't have unprotected sex...
yes, some of these places have violence and most are very corrupt (by the American definition) but, then, that's why they are developing countries. Look around you. violence and corruption are a part of even an American life. Are you so naiive as to believe our gov't. is free of corruption? Go to a developing country, learn to work the system and when you return, you'll be like one of Paul Atredies' Fremen on a new planet - you'll work circles around your stupid co-workers. (ok, bad analogy)
You gain strength from doing the thing you think you can not do. I built a computer lab in a rural rice-farming village where there is no running water and little electricity. If you've got what it takes, you can do anything!
Still reading? Maybe YOU have what it takes. PeaceCorps [peacecorps.gov] The toughest job you'll ever love!
Re:I wonder what the pay would be... (Score:2)
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Re:you are dumb (Score:3)
Of course it's a slightly different kind of "tech" than your average geek. But there could be some overlap.
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Foday Sankoh, foreigners as targets, et. al. (Score:2)
It's as if the UN had endorsed Hitler for Prime Minister of Israel.
No wonder most of Africa continues to starve in poverty. With 'friends' like the US, who needs enemies? Note to self: there are organizations even more cynical than Microsoft and Monsanto, and my tax dollars are paying for them. Woohoo!
In any event, no amount of fiber optic cable is going to improve the lives of people in countries like Sierra Leone until decent leaders are nudged into power and the economies can be built up to the point that ordinary citizens are not preoccupied with starvation, AIDS, and fleeing from murderous warlords.
Bonus: foreign aid workers will also be less likely targets for torture, murder, and mutilation if there is some incentive for leaders to act like moderately civilized human beings (as opposed to criminally insane sadists). This means you, Network Boy...
Africa needs self-generated wealth and leaders (Score:3)
Hard to use a keyboard when RUF rebels have chopped your hands off (Sierra Leone), when your entire city has been murdered (Rwanda), or you're dizzy from exhaustion because the food and supplies to your region have been obliterated by land mines for the third time in as many months and you're starving to death (Angola), or you're busy dying of AIDS (one out of every four people in subsaharan Africa). An ISP is not going to help the common man in these countries nearly as much as an international body with a spine (eg. one that would not agree to make Foday Sankoh, the leader of the vicious, terrorist RUF rebels in Sierra Leone) or something akin to dignity, especially on the part of the US and France. God knows it couldn't hurt to have more of the world's masses aware of the hell that exists in most of West and Central Africa, though -- if
As usual, foreign 'aid' is best suited for generating contempt and dependency. Vietnam, for example, is doing quite well these days, in spite of America's best efforts. Meanwhile the majority of Africa outside of Egypt and Tunisia continues to go straight to hell, as the world cynically manipulates the 'leaders' to exploit its resources, and ignores millions of civilians being killed as an indirect consequence of our (Western) foreign policy decisions.
Somehow, even in a forum like
Re:Forget it (Score:2)
Actually, I've been to Sierra Leone (shortly before the government fell), and they had plenty of cars and no horses, at least in Freetown. There's no particular reason not to skip levels of technology, if the higher tech is available from somewhere else.
Sierra Leone's government was, in fact, founded on law and democracy; as far as I could tell, they just couldn't withstand a concerted attack from the gang/robber rebel types when it happened. On the other hand, the neighboring countries did a pretty good job of helping. In that area, at least, the violence was primarily anti-government. Of course, the country was primarily made up of returned British slaves, which gives them a rather different culture from parts of Africa with uninterrupted traditions.
There's a certain amount of IT that is worth doing even at this point. IT will probably give you a better financial return on investment than, say, clean water; once you have some level of IT (and electricity to run it), you can get the money to get good clean water.
Physical conditions (Score:2)
For a month each year, dust blows off of the Sahara. It gets on everything. It's reddish and fine.
For a month each year, it rains. The soil is not very good, and it's hard to reach bedrock. You get mudslides. You get buildings washing away, not because they collapse, but because the ground underneath them goes.
It's otherwise hot and humid in general.
The utilities are rather flaky, because they're not the best equipment and the conditions are bad for them. Also, people don't depend on them enough to pay to keep them well maintained.
So setting up the tech is the least of your worries. The main issue is keeping the hardware working; you have to contend with hot weather, humidity, airborne particles, and power fluxuations. Sure, you can have A/C, but you have to keep that working, clean the filters, and you probably want to turn it off when the power fails, or you're likely to burn out your generator. About the only worse thing that could happen to a machine is throwing it off a cliff, which might happen, too, if you pick the wrong building.
It's certainly possible on a first-world budget, but setting things up for local budgets or funded by donations is likely to be extremely challenging.
Re:Of course, even doing this is risky. (Score:1)
How so? I mean this not as flamebait, but quite seriously.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. (Score:1)
People seem to be suggesting that you build up to the current modern tech level gradually. Like you, I think it may be worth trying to use the tech level of the US, Europe, etc. to try and pull the third world up faster. This could make for some really interesting research.
I think a lot of it would be installing infrastructure that is REALLY REALLY robust. Not necessarily state of the art.
Could be an interesting type of project. If there wasn't such a danger of getting killed just because I'm white and american, I would love to be involved for a while. Sigh.
Actually i was .... (Score:1)
And yes I KNOW that there is no electric grid. There are already places where solar powered data terminals with radio and/or satellite uplinks are just BFE out in the middle of nothing
And I'm in no way trying to imply that health care and educational infrastructure isn't important, just that good information connectivity could possibly help these move from non-existant to much better faster.
Of course, you are correct about the government. THAT is something that really can't be developed in parallel with IT structure until after a certain point.
Biz associates from south africa ... (Score:1)
People I have talked to from south africa painted a picture of the entire region that, quite frankly, scared the hell out of me.
What they talked about, and they did talk about more than just their contry, was pretty bad. Of course from what you are saying it may be that the rest of the country is more sane ...
I guess I chalk up my thoughts to very limited (and probably quite biased) input.
It's interesting to hear from someone with an experience 180 degrees out of phase.
One more thing ... (Score:1)
Re:Peace Corp (Score:1)
Re:Tech Corps? (Score:1)
Re:Tech Corps? (Score:1)
Re:Geek Corps (Score:2)
Re:Peace Corps IT programs are vapor. (Score:2)
Africa needs Peace + Political/Economic Freedom (Score:2)
The editors suspended grading for six African nations--Angola, Burundi, Congo, Sierra Leone, Somalia and Sudan--due to the unreliability of data caused by either their civil unrest or "prolonged state of anarchy." They will be included in future editions once "political stability returns."
Africa Betrayed [cato.org]: George Ayittey, a native of Ghana, recalls the exhilaration that swept the continent when colonialism ended. But soon native African leaders began plundering their nations' economies, imprisoning political opponents, and blocking economic progress.
Although those leaders rejected capitalism because of its mistaken identification with colonialism, Africa actually has a tradition of markets and decentralization. Ayittey lays out that tradition before describing the Colonial Era, the march toward tyranny, the de facto apartheid, the military regimes, the intellectual repression, the corruption, and the dubious conduct of the West.
Images from on the ground... (Score:1)
Everyone's favorite angry SF site protest site [blowthedotoutyourass.com]has some interesting images [blowthedotoutyourass.com]from on the ground in Africa.
A little dated but sadly still very applicable I think...
=tkk
Re:Tech Corps? (Score:3)
What do you think they send trained folks out for, to dig furrows? Naw it's folks to help with water systems and modern accounting & yes, bringing the internet out to rural villages.
Re: Crikey, why can't we mind our business (Score:2)
If you give an African a hand-out, you're doing nothing for them other than teaching them to expect hand-outs...
Why is it we assume that Africans can't do these things themselves? Oh, I know, they're poor and black -- what unsubtle arrogance the helpful-left have.
Sounds to me that "humanitarian aid" is a way for "progressives" to be racists...
Re: Crikey, why can't we mind our business (Score:2)
Granted, there is a certain degree of responsibility that we (meaning non-African countries) have because of what we did in the past. However, the problems Africa has now are caused largely by Africans -- poking our well-fed fingers into the pie won't help much, especially big block cash grants from places like the IMF or World Bank. Most of that money comes from countries like the US, and most of that money goes right back to the US in the form of consulting fees and equipment purchases and the like.
Your example of WWII is particularly good, because the Marshall Plan did exactly what the IMF/WorldBank does now -- transfer of wealth from taxpayers to $COUNTRY, back to US, into the pockets of industrialists and war profitteers. Granted, Europe got some buildings and highways rebuilt, but by and large it was a scheme to help those with government connections get a chunk of cash.
In addition, I'm unwilling to say that a Mbundu tribesman who hunts and/or grows food, lives in harmonic balance with the land is "uncivilized", or even "poor". They may only make $15/year, but their needs are met. What gives us the right to meddle with their lives?
Re: Crikey, why can't we mind our business (Score:2)
You've hit on it -- check out the Grameen Bank [grameen.org]. I believe it started in Bangledesh, and has done more for the Bangledeshi people than truckloads of foriegn aid.
Re: Marshall Plan, a somewhat decent example is _The Reconstruction of Western Europe_ by Alan Milward. He doesn't cover what *I* think is a reason (my earlier statement of a transfer of weath to industrialists -- that's my own theory), but he does argue that the Marshall Plan had a minimal effect. (didn't find the book at Amazon -- you may have to do some serious searching for it. I believe it was published in 1980? Early eighties, anyway).
Finally, you were in Somalia? Ye gods... In P.J. O'Rourke's book _All the Trouble in the World_, P.J. quoted a US serviceman who said, "Somalia? Give 'em better guns and training and seal the border". Somalia is screwed up on so many levels, I doubt anybody can point to one thing and cry "Culprit!". But I can imagine that the people were desperate for political and economic stability -- it's the one thing that government's good for: providing for a defense of a country's way of life and aiding a stable currency.
Re:africa needs food, not networking infrastructur (Score:1)
In short, they need a far better potential for producing their own food. "Teach a man to fish" and all that.
Africa needs self-generated wealth and leaders (Score:1)
And I would have to say that is more critical than eating.
Hard to hold a fork or a spoon or a food bowl when RUF rebels rebels have chopped your hands off (Sierra Leone)...
Come on! Don't you see that a communications infrastructure will help Africans to generate wealth?
Peace Corps IT programs are vapor. (Score:2)
Re:Tech Corps? (Score:2)
It's about teaching, but more about politics. Making host country politicians happy by sending English teachers to certain schools, even if these schools don't have nearly the need of other schools in the country. Having Peace Corps country directors attend diplomatic functions instead of the Ambassador.
Anything more than teaching is helping host country nationals in writing deceptive grants so as to take advantage of NGOs and charitable organizations by using money for existing programs/salaries/new computers for directors, etc.
We actually had a seminar in November 1999 in Kasimirz Dolny on "Creative Grant Writing" while I was a PC Poland 15 volunteer. I was absolutely sick to my stomach.
I highly recommend any private volunteer organization over the US Peace Corps.
Re:Been There, Done That (Score:2)
You should mention that this corruption doesn't fail to penetrate the Peace Corps organization.
While I don't have the heart to make formal complaints against the Peace Corps, now that I've been back in the states a year, I fully support the Host Country Nationals in Poland who worked with the Peace Corps in Warsaw who are now suing over illegal practices and activities.
I recommend volunteering, and I will certainly be spending another few years of my life volunteering overseas, but I don't recommend the US Peace Corps.
You sound too insecure ... are you a MSCE ? (Score:1)
I pity you !
Ok, great. Now who do we contact to go there? (Score:2)
I would not mind going back to help the people out there develop an internet structure, or, to help teach...
So, where do I go to do this. I know I won't make a fortune doing it. Thats not my goal. I am a single geek, so it would not be that hard for me to uproot and head over to Kenya for a few years.
So, how do I go about doing that?
(Note: I am Canadian, not American. I am looking for international contacts, not local ones.)
Re:Ok, great. Now who do we contact to go there? (Score:2)
The last time I went there, there was a whole mound of paperwork. Sure, I can find places to contact via the internet, but the "gubernmint" gets in the way. I was asking because I was wondering if anyone was familiar w/ the process, and the best way to go about it.
I asked when I went there before, and I am asking again, because it can't hurt to ask.
(Despite your desire to echo "RTFM".)
Re:Which hand are you looking at? (Score:1)
You hit the nail on the head. Africa's cultural problem is that Africa's had about 200 years or less to accomplish the social evolution that European countries had 1000 years to do. This is with the generous assumption that Europe in 1000 AD was as socially and technologically sophisticated as Africa was circa 1800, which may be dubious at best for sub-Saharan Africa.
Hi Troll! (Score:1)
WTF is that? What bullshit! That's like saying "90% of Black Americans live in the Ghetto - obviously the Ghetto is a great place to live, else there'd be zero."
I refuse to appologize for my self-preservation instinct.
Re:What's wrong with the slashdot crowd (Score:1)
Let me just summarize the comments I have read so far:-
(1) Africans are too poor to care about the internet
This is absolutely NOT true. It is true that Africa is a lot poorer than the US, but you have to remember that the US is very wealthy country. Just because the average African does not have an SUV does NOT mean that all Africans are starving and illiterate. To put it more succintly there are plenty of Africans who have access to the basic necessities of life and are interested in "extras" such as internet connectivity.
My evidence? 20 years of living and growing up in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania and Mbabane, Swaziland. A computer costs ~2,000 USD. But at home there are no shortage of luxury German and Japanese cars that cost at least 40,000 USD each. True this is the elite, but just because something will help the elite NOW, does not mean that it will not be relevant to the majority soon. In the US electricity, telephones, PCs were first adopted by the affluent. The resulting volumes sales eventually brought the price down to a level afforded by the masses. The same thing in Africa, just because only the most educated and wealthy people will be able to use it now, that does not mean that the resulting infrastructure will not grow to encompass the rest of the people. (Or to put it another way, should Europe in the middle age have abandoned all Science and tech research until they had reached "modern" level of income? Hah!) Summary: Some Africans aren't starving and actually care about accessing the internet, and they aren't an irrelevenat minority.
(2) They need to get (water, health care, stable government e.t.c) first.
This is just so WRONG, I don't even know where to begin. Society is not made up of bits and pieces that can be addressed one bit at a time, but rather it is an organic whole where everything affects everything else. Do you really think that cheap and easy communication with the rest of the world is not going to have any impact on African societies? Lets put it this way:- Do you think the internet has had NO impact on American society? Of course it has, this technology really is powerful, the ability to communicate information quickly and cheaply makes an enormous difference in the long run, even if it is only introduced very gradually at first. Thus a fibre-optic backbone will not end starvation immediately, it certainly won't do any harm, and it will likely create plenty of opportunities for Africans to help themselves. Its not magic bullet, but the risks of falling further and further behind are far greater than the risks of plunging ahead with this technology.
Only time will tell, what the outcome will be, but I feel confident in saying that 10 years from now, the situation will be no worse in Africa than it is today and very probably it will be better. And that just might be because of more bandwidth as unlikely as it might sound.
Mugizi Robert Rwebangira
Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania
mrrweban@us.ibm.com(for the summer)
Re:No Thanks... (Score:1)
No Thanks... (Score:1)
JoeLinux
Re: Students Need Not Apply (Score:1)
I'm about to enter the last year of a BSc in CS. I plan on going to graduate school after I graduate, but I will have the summer off in-between. I wouldn't mind spending that summer volunteering. But none of these organisation seem interested!
Geek Corps is the only one with terms small enough to fit into a summer; and they want at least 3 years of real-world experience (actually I probably have that if you add up all my summer jobs)! Students, as a group, are the most likely to have the time and interest in this kind of volunteering, yet we're just not wanted. Shouldn't these organisations be making this at least as easy as getting a summer internship at the Evil Empire [microsoft.com]?
This is just like organisations not accepting donations of computers below a certain power level...
Sure, lets clean up africa first... (Score:1)
Yeah, lets have peace and dignity and cleanliness in Africa before we help them get online - after all, every computer geek who is building an information superhighway is a geek who is not building a sewer system and fighting aids! You are all prepared to build sewers and fight political corruption and implement health programs over there, right?
Lets stop trying to solve one problem before we solve the one before - we can only do one thing at a time, after all.
Re:Any help is appreciated. (Score:1)
High Speed Access in Mozambique? (Score:2)
I'm going to help a relief organization in Mozambique this autumn, and have been talking to them about how to get their internet services up and running better than they are now. They have 1200 sites, most of which are in the bush, and two cellular modems which connect to the national ISP. A major problem they have is sending mass e-mails to interested supporters; frequently their ISP drops large numbers of the e-mails, and doesn't tell them about it.
Do you all know of any high speed options / LEO satellite / commercial companies that support businesses in Africa? I've been puzzling through how to get them better services, but I'm sure the collective wisdom of the slashdot community is greater than what I can turn up on my own.
Re:I wonder what the pay would be... (Score:2)
What is he gonna do with his life now -- make better than the national average, live at a decent first-world standard of living, and have enough money in his bank account to live on when he retires?
You're so cruel.
Yes college kids, you too can blow $100,000 on a college education so you can set up FidoNet nodes in Ghana, for free.
Point is, it's not unreasonable to expect that if tech skills are really in demand, they would be willing to spring for above average compensation, at least by their standards.
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Entertaining Quote (Score:2)
Ouch.
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Charles E. Hill
Not entirely correct. (Score:3)
In particular, I don't know what the fluctuating laws are that you are referring to. The government in power ( ANC ) has introduced a few laws but I hardly think that the situation is as you describe it. Granted, some of the laws have been dumb. However, the yanks have the DMCA, so I guess we're even on that score.
The big problem down here is crime. Like you implied in your post, crime is incredible. It's violent in a way that I doubt Slashdot readers could comprehend. We have the highest rape and murder rates outside of a warzone. That's a fact, not exaggeration.
The other big problem is HIV / AIDS. It has taken ( and will continue to take ) a massive toll on the country. Some figures say that as many as 1 in 5 sexually active adults is infected with the HIV virus. This is complicated by the fact that our current president ( Thabo Mbeki ) does not believe that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus. He seems to think it is caused by poverty ( Nelson Mandela, however, knows that HIV causes AIDS. Compared to Mbeki, he's a saint ).
As far as the IT side of things goes, I think that Americans would be surprised. I have worked as a Linux sysadmin for quite a few companies down here. The biggest problem is the so-called 'brain drain' which has been caused by all the skilled ( mostly white ) workers who have departed these shores for greener pastures. I can't blame them. I'm emigrating myself in a few months time.
It's tough here for whites. It's tougher for blacks. Even the average black person here believes that life is worse now than under the previous National Party government ( Apartheid ). Crime is worse. Poverty is worse. Unemployment is worse. It's really a tragedy, when the completely corrupt and evil system of apartheid is remembered by some people ( many of them black ) as the good old days.
As for the topic of this Slashdot story: I can't recommend to the average American to come here. I don't think that he would have the stomach for the conditions. You would have to be an a real thrill-seeking nerd with brass balls to survive it. I suggest that you all continue to write the fine open source software that you have being pumping out from the comfort of your home countries ( In the USA and the rest of the world ). If anything is going to liberate and empower people here, it will be knowledge and education. That's the kind of knowledge that the Linux community has been passing on through the wide range of free ( as in beer and speech ) software.
Free software levels the playing field. It is just as accessible to the first world as the third world. It costs $0 for both of us.
Best Regards,
Peter Knowles
Geek Corps (Score:5)
I have no relationship with Geek Corps but I've always thought it looked like a great idea.
Which hand are you looking at? (Score:2)
Africa's biggest problem is cultural - mostly the concept of "resource sharing", as in, you made it well in the economy, so give me some of it, rather than, you made it well in the economy, let me study how you did it so I can replicate it.
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Re:Peace Corp (Score:3)
Geeks in Ghana (Score:3)
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I got email from them.... (Score:3)
I'd say at least 2/3 of my mail was from Africa, usually Nigeria.
Re:Information is freedom.. (Score:2)
If you're poor, how do you afford the solutions offered online? (IE, information is free, but implementation rarely is) What good is information on a world you live in if you can't afford to go anywhere? (Nevermind that 95% of that information inherently assumes you're from a completetly different culture, thus much of it loses its relevence, usefulness, or poingancy.)
But lets say, for whatever reason, that browsing the net enriches your mind, and makes you happy, a la any given MSN Messenger commercial. So, you give people jobs building this internet. Where does the money come from? Presumably from people who now have jobs. But what are they buying? I don't imagine the culture is quite at the stage where people have the luxury of shopping online or purchasing content. We take for granted that our food, water, house, lawnmower etc, are forgone conclusions. Thus, much of our purchasing, which in turn fuels jobs, is spent on frivilous things like access to porn sites, movies, etc. Remember the crash? That was about people thinking other people would be buying into a new cultural economy. CISCO comes to mind for fueling this hype (I still havn't puchased bon-bons from a quaint european candy shoppe chain). Companies placed their bets, but it didn't quite work out. So what's the payoff with AfricaNet? Who's the end consumer that gets the money going through the pipeline? I think you'd be left with a big FO link, and tons (not all! I'm not saying all!) people standing around either not wanting it or not understanding how it fits into their culture.
I can tell you EXACTLY why misguided efforts like these are bad:
Companies are salivating at the mouth for new consumer bases. The internet would give them unprecendented new access to consumers. The WTO would be pulled in MANY times so companies could exploit the relative weakness of the african economies and cultures to fuel a one way 'import-only' trend into these countries, which at the end of the day will realize they're networks are really only the 20th century version of a dog leash. Western companies are ALL about access to foreign markets. Whatever humanitarian benifits that come out of education and access to information will be obliterated by the greediness of companies to exploit these new markets, turning african countries into just another economy-on-the-westernized-leash.
As for those who took pot-shots at the violence, desease and conditions in africa, ya got alotta nerve. Many will claim that the current conditions are a direct result of outside influences meddling with a once-self-contained culture.
Re:I wonder what the pay would be... (Score:2)
First of all, not freakin' much, because they don't HAVE much. Maybe under a grand (US$) per month. But believe me, that's luxury pay for the area. You would have an entire house, fenced and probably manually guarded, most likely a live-in servant or two, and probably a nice land rover. Plus domestic vacations would be inanely cheap once you learned the language and the local bartering/haggling proceedures.
Of course maybe you wouldn't learn any of that, because you make yourself sound tremendously ignorant in that comment. ebola is primarily found in remote areas and you're almost certain not to get it. I won't even discuss the best ways to avoid aids. You take prophylactic malaria medication; that's one more thing the natives have to struggle with but which you can remain blissfully ignorant of. The "insane" governments, which are being suffocated by equal parts corruption and IMF debt, can generally be bought off if you really have a problem with them. And there aren't really "rebel factions" within 200 miles of nairobi.
So all around, it would be a pretty great opportunity for a geek to have a great time relatively safely, as long as you dig swimming in the indian ocean and seeing lions in their natural habitat instead of stocking up a fat paycheck. So maybe YOU shouldn't go, but I had a great time.
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Hey, I went to school there! (Score:2)
And lemme say, these comments about "Africa really needs water/food/health care before the Internet" are way off mark. Yes, all those things are necessary, but you must realize that in some cases, particularly with food and water, it's a matter of distribution, not lack of production, and the fact that the economy is largely subjugated by corrupt governments and international treaties which relegate them to commodity-production only. Which is a famously unstable way to make a living.
Moreover, an educated, informed populace is a great way to get around these obstacles. And wiring up the universities and teaching people software engineering is actually a GREAT step. No one's saying "to hell with food, we want you to be our new cheap code monkeys!" A lot of people are genuinely interested in helping African countries recover from poverty.
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Re:I wonder what the pay would be... (Score:2)
If they can't come up with the cash to pay you, I'm sure the World Bank or IMF would be willing to put a third-world nation $100 Billion further in debt (that number is so large because we have to account for politician's bribes.) As long as every person above you is getting a cut off the top (larger than yours, of course) they could care less what you're doing there, I'm sure.
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i was just in south africa (Score:2)
Peace Corp (Score:3)
Information is freedom.. (Score:2)
Also consider the amount of jobs that could be created maintaining this type of infrastructure, jobs that could progress the continent from subsistance farming, to a technological peer with the United States and Europe.
Uh. (Score:2)
"Africa Needs Net Access, NOW!"
Let me show my unimaginably endless ignorance here, but doesn't africa need to nail down things like "shitting and drinking in separate places" and "not having civil wars over who's pissant do-nothing government is not running anything--today" before they worry about highspeed net access ?
Seems like all the interesting wildlife there is about extinct, and DeBeers has the relevant natural resources all locked up.
Africa reminds me of a funny newsgroup name I saw once - alt.pave.the.earth
Better words were never spoken.
Re: Crikey, why can't we mind our business (Score:2)
You seem to have totally missed what I said. I agree with you 100% about "humanitarian aid" being less than worthless. The problem with current aid efforts is that they're hand-outs that don't stimulate economic growth. They're not helping Africans to help themselves.
You assume that I'm a leftie, which I'm not. I'm a firm believer in the value of free trade and self-determination, but those things don't exist in Africa. Right now most African nations are struggling under economic and political burdens that are the direct result of predatory exploitation from non-African nations.
But I don't believe that European, Chinese, Russian and American meddling in Africa over the past 200 years gives us the right to simply wash our hands and say "oh, gee, we screwed up before, we should just let them do their own thing now."
That's like waging a massive war in Europe then walking away without offering to help clean it up. But wait! We DID help those poor white Europeans after World War II, didn't we? What unsubtle arrogance the helpful Marshall Plan exhibited, by providing western Europe with the means to get on its own two feet.
Re: Crikey, why can't we mind our business (Score:2)
But I think the biggest problems to date with IMF and World Bank involvement in Africa have been because the "assistance" is structured in such a top-down manner that as you mention, most of the money never reaches the intended target.
That's why microlending strategies work so well - people can borrow very small quantities of money to kick-start their business and build up the microeconomy. Imagine if private institutions in the United States got imaginative. The VCs who are moaning at the dot-bomb flameout could be reaping large returns on investments in small, admittedly less sexy ventures in African nations, while helping individuals in those countries to build their economies from the roots up.
I don't agree with your assessment of the Marshall Plan, but you must have some reason for thinking it was merely a profiteering venture. If you have some sources for me, I'd be very interested in reading some background on that point of view.
Finally, I agree with you about the Mbundu tribesman. One of the problems intrinsic to discussions about "Africa" is that the continent is tremendously diverse geographically, ethnically, and culturally. Many African people are living in a fashion they find desirable. Obviously they don't need anyone's help.
However, I think that when people in places like Eritrea, Sudan, Angola, and Somalia express the desire to accept fundamental development aid, we should step up and help in a more long term and smarter manner than we have to date.
While the Mbundu tribesman may desire no help at all, the Angolan farmer caught between the government and the rebels might very well welcome some sort of stabilizing influence, rather than the on-and-off superpower meddling that brought people like Savimbi into his life.
When I was in Somalia, I was amazed at how many people were desperate not just for food, but for political and economic stability - the kind we in the western world take for granted.
microlending and Somalia (Score:2)
Yep, I was in Somalia. The most interesting thing to me about the whole experience was just how different my experience in the Jubba Valley was from that of soldiers who served north of our battallion, and in Mogadishu.
You're right, the place is definitely screwed up, and pretty much everyone is to blame. We set up our company HQ in an old rice farm, which had been built by the Chinese. There was all this old Chinese machinery sitting around rusting, and I even found a couple of 5-year plans in Cyrillic. So obviously the Russians had been there at some point. The Swedes had built a nice bridge over the Jubba, which was then destroyed during the civil war.
In the Jubba Valley, which was populated primarily by farmers, the people seemed really genuinely happy to have us around. When asked how long they thought we'd stay, the common answer was "five years" - which made me realize how accustomed to brief but innefectual outside involvement.
Our approach to helping them get back on their feet was to provide the Somalis with an area secure from roving bandits. We told the locals they could keep their weapons, as long as they kept them in their homes. Anyone with a weapon outside a home would be considered hostile, and we'd confiscate their weapons. In the 2 1/2 months we were in the area, we nabbed around 300 weapons within 5 miles of our HQ.
With the threat of violence severly mitigated, the town marketplace came back to life, people took to the streets again - it was incredible. Then we left and handed over our sector to the Belgians. A few months later, back at Ft. Drum, I remember watching the whole "Blackhawk Down" incident and American reaction to it.
I think our involvement in Somalia was indicative of some larger issues. Americans wanted to help the Somalis as long as it was easy. But there were no smart bombs here, Americans died, the UN elected to get in the business of siding with one clan leader over others. It went from being a PR gesture to an a long-term engagement. Realizing that we'd bitten off more than we were prepared to chew, we bailed.
I suppose much of my attitude about the poorest nations in Africa stems from my time in Somalia. I saw what people could do when given a chance, and it made me think "damn, this nation could be so much diffferent, if average people were given the opportunity to live in peace."
I think we can both agree that to date, outside "help" to African nations has been largely more detrimental than helpful, and that focusing on direct, microeconomic assistance seems to be a promising new direction.
Risky? Hardly (Score:5)
They don't need the kind of help that the western world primarily gives them, which is just enough assistance to help themselves stay poor. What they need is infrastructure development:
* Viable microeconomic development, so that average entrepreneurs can make a living.
* Eradication of tarrifs from the developed world, which hinder African nations from exporting
* Real education for more than just the elites.
* Fundamental change in the regional politics of Africa, which would allow nations to concentrate on development rather than ethnic and border feuds.
The fact is that Africa's history has put it so far to the back of the pack that even with a concerted effort among European and North American countries to assist African nations in a structured, long-term manner, to talk of "little African kids" working for a bowl of rice and putting us out of work is patently absurd.
There is no "tough call" here. We either help African people climb out of poverty, cyclical famine, and oppressive politics, or all of us will pay the price sooner or later. It's enlightened self-interest for us to help African nations help themselves.
Re:you are dumb (Score:2)
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
As Cartman would say.... (Score:3)
"My mom says there are a lot of black people in Africa"
But on a serious note, it would be nice to see the rest of the world jump onto the information superhighway. It'd be nicer to have the starving suffering people fed first, but hey.... can't win them all.
Re:Risky? Hardly (Score:3)
>
> How so? What are the negative consequences for the rest of us in just letting evolution take its course in Africa?
Very interesting question. Anyone want to help out in answering it?
Three things that come to mind (don't know if they are valid or not):
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Gambia experiences (Score:4)
In the project I participated I was responsible for the webpage and some other computer oriented stuff. I just want to remind you that this is also a way in which you can help. It doesn't need to be infrastructure or humongously big projects. You can add your little share here and there.
Finaly don't judge the entire African continent from what you've seen in one country! It's like havin been to Albania and judging Monaco based on those experiences. Africa is bigger than Europe!..
Cheers...
P.S. The humid air in the Gambia did wonders to the junk that gets stuck on the mouses "scrollers"!!.. .*shrc is
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$HOME is where the
Not again.... (Score:5)
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$HOME is where the
Reminds me of the Dilbert strip (Score:2)
Re:Of course, even doing this is risky. (Score:3)
Of course, even doing this is risky. (Score:4)
Re:Forget it (Score:2)
You're on the money with that one. Some things that most (all?) countries in sub-Saharan Africa could use:
Africa needs basic services before net tech (Score:3)
Connecting impoverished villages stricken by AIDS with T1 lines simply isn't going to have a substantial effect on the common welfare.
Re:Of course, even doing this is risky. (Score:2)
So you're suggesting that only the rich should have an economy, lest the poor undercut our consulting rates?
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Re:Entertaining Quote (Score:2)
There are tons of people here in Egypt getting them. Any other certification is almost unheard of, but we have MCSEs coming out of our ears. It is interesting to reflect on what this says about Microsoft's marketing strategy.
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Re:High Speed Access in Mozambique? (Score:2)
If it's a non-profit of some resources, you might look at VITAsat [vita.org], run by Volunteers for Technical Assistance. If your problem were running the other direction, I would suggest Worldspace [worldspace.com], which sells some nifty satellite radio receivers specifically for the developing world. They offer data downlink through their receivers, but I don't think they've figured out the uplink part yet. But I know they've been investigating options, including Iridium, so it might be worth watching them.
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Re:I wonder what the pay would be... (Score:3)
Don't worry about it. You just bombed the interview.
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Further reading on IT in the developing world (Score:3)
I'm an international development professional. I live in the developing world. I'm a believer in the potential for IT for the developing world, though as with everything else Internet-related it has been way overhyped in the last few years.
IT will not spontaneously feed the hungry or cure the sick, but everyone here knows from their own lives what a uniquely multipurpose tool it is. If people in developing countries can use IT to find and share solutions to their own problems, get the latest information on medical, economic, agricultural, political, and other developments, and smooth over some of the inefficiencies in their economies, then it will be a real tool for development. None of that is unrealistic.
The UN Development Programme, the Markle Foundation, and a consulting firm called Accenture recently put out a report [opt-init.org] on potential applications for IT in the developing world. It gives real-world examples to support its conclusions. Please give it a look before you contribute yet another comment to the effect that nobody in Africa can type because their hands have been cut off, they have no water, etc. You might not agree with the relentlessly cheerleadery tone of the report -- I'm not sure I do -- but it shows you what people are really proposing to do with the technology.
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Re:As Cartman would say.... (Score:2)
On the other hand.... (Score:2)
Full Internet access, on the other hand, gives access to information, freedom of speech, even international education. They may not be able to ship e-commerce out that way, but full access to the international community is nothing to sneeze at.
Sometimes, you need to pick the frosting you like best first.
What's wrong with the slashdot crowd (Score:3)
I just have to say: What the f**k is wrong with the slashdot crowd? I guess most of the crowd is American, but I always sincerely thought that Americans where better than their reputation (I guess I have to reeavaluate these thoughts).
People considering a) probably never spent a single day outside the comfort of their hometown (or neighbouring town). So what if the standard of living is a bit lower where you get to live in Africa? I mean, I haven't been there myself, but common sense makes me see that there's a bit more to Africa than people living in bungalows and eating each other for dinner.
People considering b) must have their head so thight up their arse that they're only able to consider a direct route from A to B as the only true solution. Get a life. This is the real world. It's not some derivate of a Populus like game where evolution happens to take one specific route. Does anyone actually believe that improvement of, e.g., the net infrastructure does have to occur after other improvements are finished? Does anyone believe that improvement of the net infrstructure is completely orthogonal to othe improvements in the societey, that, e.g., the health sector can not benefit from improvements in the IT sector?
Moreover, anyone taking on a job to build a net infrastructure in Africa (even if their salaries might be lower) will at least be able to help 3rd world countries in a concrete and very useful way. It will probably help more than giving a $10 donation to some random help organization every year. Having someone use their acquired skills to do real, much needed work will usually be way more helpful. In addition, living in another country for some time tend to give you a more unbiased view of the world.
Re:Great experience... with a few drawbacks... (Score:3)
Now that being said, if you're not married, get married before you go, because you do *not* want to start a sex-life anywhere in Africa right now...
We all know, of course, the marriage is the sure-fire way to prevent a sex-life.
Great experience... with a few drawbacks... (Score:2)
Now that being said, if you're not married, get married before you go, because you do *not* want to start a sex-life anywhere in Africa right now...
Re:i was just in south africa (Score:2)
What a preposterous statement.
South Africa is nothing like the rest of the continent. It's a very special situation created from unique historical circumstances.
There are other dangerous places in Africa (Angola, Nigeria, Algeria, Rwanda, Burundi, Congo-Kinshasa, Sierra Leone, Liberia) but none of match the pervasive level of everyday violence and brutality that have come to characterize South Africa (in particular Johannesburg).
You can go to a country like Ghana and never see anything but smiling friendly people.
Re:you are dumb (Score:2)
I don't think the point's all that valid.
What most troubled sub-saharan African countries really need is a functioning economy. People who are working together to get rich are far less likely to hack each other to bits just because someone on the radio tells them to.
An efficient economy depends very much on access to information (market prices, technical information, etc.) and on communication (widening the pool of buyers and sellers).
Without this, they get to develop it the hard, tried-and-true way: Over 1000 or more years. Why not give them a leg up?
Re:Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. (Score:2)
What on earth makes you think you're in danger of getting killed because you're white and/or American?
Outside of Algeria, with its rebels' "death to foreigners" pledge, you'll be welcomed as an honored guest almost anywhere you go. Even in Algeria they seem to have more or less given that crap up.
People recognize that you're not part of their local struggles, and in my experience throughout Africa most people want nothing more than a chance to explain their views on what's going on, throw in an exclaimed "America very good country!" or two, and hear some stories about what life is like elsewhere. You'll see more people wearing stars-and-stripes gear (T-shirts, baseball caps, stickers on bikes and cars, etc.) than in the USA on the 4th of July. I've hitchhiked across the continent and never experienced anything but overwhelming hospitality (and the occasional upset stomach; that's your real worry in Africa).
What Africa really needs (Score:3)
Re:Of course, even doing this is risky. (Score:2)
"A ship is safest in port, but that is not what it is for"
We have to take chances. To be honest, we are hugely in debt (ethically) to the third world. Our lavish lifestyles are to an uncomfortably large extent built on the suffering of people in the poorest countries on earth.
The comment about human rights is actually very funny, considering that the US government has been involved in supporting/funding/hiding some of the worst human rights abuses of this century (funny you should mention Indonesia, the blood of million people who died there after Suharto came to power is very much on US and British hands, not to mention East Timor which NOBODY would notice for years).
If individuals can reach outside of government activity and help other people in the blackest poverty holes in the world, I say that they should be applauded by all ethical and free-thinking people. The only way everyone will have any chance of living a decent life is if people help people.
Sorry if this sounds a bit preachy, but i feel strongly about these issues.
m
Wow (Score:2)
Forget it (Score:3)
Personally I'd rather if African governments concentrated on building the foundations of law and democracy on their soil and eradicating the rampant corruption and crime that sweeps the continent. They need to address issues like fighting famine and building roads infrastructure before they can shift to building IT/telecoms. That's my opinion anyway.
Any help is appreciated. (Score:2)
Re:Tech Corps? (Score:2)
Tech Corps? (Score:3)
With this crowd getting politically active and motivated, and the job market shrinking, maybe this is the right time?
On a serious note (Score:2)
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Re:As Cartman would say.... (Score:2)
I wonder what the pay would be... (Score:3)